Reminder for me to listen later.
Thanks HD for your take. Geert said nature will be the only thing to end this pandemic. But I wonder if he believes this is a bio-weapon? That changes things because if it is, then this could simply be a fast/slow roll to the grave.I watched the whole thing and it was the most scientific, technical interview I've heard Geert give. It was way over my head, but the end result is he still expects the "geert variant" (my term) (as your twtitter link of that part of the video shows) and can't give a time for when he expects to see it, and he said there are things he didn't expect and still doesn't understand about the whole thing. (and personally I'm hoping that means maybe he'll be wrong - too many people I love are vaxxed and I pray he's wrong every day).
Syed did a fantastic job, he seems like a great, compassionate doctor so extra kudos to him for the interview.
I will say my newfound knowledge (previously discussed here) of Geert's history of working with failed mrna vaccines in his past made me appreciate more what he was saying. The subject was not raised though, I wish it had been.
And he said new news about the availability of the book in the USA should be forthcoming soon. If it's anything like that interview, which I suspect it will be since he said multiple times that he went into more detail in the book, I'll pass! It's geared for the scientific community, not laypeople like me.
Thanks again for the link.
HD
Yes he is!Thanks HD for your take. Geert said nature will be the only thing to end this pandemic. But I wonder if he believes this is a bio-weapon? That changes things because if it is, then this could simply be a fast/slow roll to the grave.
I also like Dr. Syed. He has helped many many people with long covid and those with Vax injuries. He's the best.
I need to listen to it again with the goal of taking notes. I try to listen doing other things and as you say the technical things are missed. I'll do that this week.This is the first interview I heard him mention side effects of the vaxx. He only mentioned it in passing, more than once. Never heard him even acknowledge that aspect of mrna before. But when he went over the very technical mechanisms of MRNA, and when he said the mrna vaxx recipients will get the worst effects of the 'geert variant', even more so than the DNA vaxxed, I suspect he was speaking with knowledge of all the studies he has done on MRNA in the past so that put more weight on his (confusing to me because they were so technical) statements.
have you listened to the whole thing? were you able to make any sense of it? It was very technical, I didn't have energy or the inclination to relisten a few times to understand the science (which I used to do so I do know his basic theories pretty well).. He's admitted he's changed some of his thinking, and he said it was a dynamic situation and he's always evalutating the new data so that leaves room in my mind for his horrific scenario to hopefully be wrong...
HD
Just watched the video taking notes: Here they are.I watched the whole thing and it was the most scientific, technical interview i've heard Geert give. It was way over my head, but the end result is he still expects the "geert variant" (my term) (as your twtitter link of that part of the video shows) and can't give a time for when he expects to see it, and he said there are things he didn't expect and still doesn't understand about the whole thing. (and personally I'm hoping that means maybe he'll be wrong - too many people I love are vaxxed and I pray he's wrong every day).
Syed did a fantastic job, he seems like a great, compassionate doctor so extra kudos to him for the interview.
I will say my newfound knowledge (previously discussed here) of Geert's history of working with failed mrna vaccines in his past made me appreciate more what he was saying. The subject was not raised though, I wish it had been.
And he said new news about the availability of the book in the USA should be forthcoming soon. If it's anything like that interview, which I suspect it will be since he said multiple times that he went into more detail in the book, I'll pass! It's geared for the scientific community, not laypeople like me.
Thanks again for the link.
HD
Thank you. You did a great job, and you motivated me to take notes for this next video I'm about to postJust watched the video taking notes: Here they are.
Natural pandemics are not variant pandemics. This one is and variants have become dominant. (so indirectly saying this virus is not natural. i.e., bio-weapon).
This virus will become more virulent in time. Timing is off but still sure we will not escape the worse is yet to come.
The timeline was off because of SIR. The Immune system is refocusing. Also because of epitopes. Don’t understand the technical science of epitopes or virology. My eyes glazed over most the interview. Too technical for me.
he said there is just a delay and it helps the immune system catch up but the course cannot be changed. It is irreversible.
The omicron virus is continuing to evolve. Evolving in a bad direction.
Highly vaccinated populations are in the calm of the storm but they are in for a big surprise because they think the pandemic is over. But Science doesn’t know where this virus is headed.
He sees the prelude to what he has predicted. 46:00 (hospitalizations for different things) He sees that the virulence is increasing with hospitalizations (chronic illnesses etc.) The whole phenomenon is dynamic. The virus is evolving and nature is in charge. Still saying the unvaxxed are much better off because their innate immune is being trained.
How long will it be before it gets bad? The virus is evolving slowly. Will not be surprised if it happens in one week, two weeks, or three months. But it will happen. The price we will have to pay. He is 200% sure.
Everyone is thinking and saying the pandemic is over, that is why they will be surprised.
Furious at the silence of the scientists who know the truth.
In highly vaccinated countries Geert believes we will lose up to 1/3 of the population. Could envision the end of western civilization.
My take: Geert knows his stuff. I'm impressed with his expertise. He has nothing to gain to say what he is saying. He is seeing the prelude to what he has predicted so it's just a matter of time. We're on our own folks. Thank God for Jesus.
Good job HD. You're able to follow the tech of this better than me.I apologize for spellling errors, I was typing pretty fast to keep up.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Os7U8jYjwXE
When Geert Speaks, the World Listens
Vejon Health
1 hr 6 min 4 sec
Dr. Philip McMillan talking to Geert Vanden Bossche (Vaccinologist) about his new book, looking at what has been learnt over the 3 years of the COVID-19 pandemic. With Dr Shankara Chetty - Covid hero from South Africa.
- Geert: unbelievable to him that his book would be censored. He's trying to bring science. Is it censorship or because it's printed and edited in europe? Very clear that Amazon has not come up with a clear cut answer. very mysterious what's going on. Can't rule out censorship, very embarrasing to him.
- Geert: goal to document the complexity of the pandemic. If laymen read it, will be very difficult. Some section they won't understand but what's important for him is that even laymen will realize these things are complex. And as a result of immune intervention it's even more complex and very dynamic. if the only message that laymen get out of it is that it's more complex than people are being led to believe, it's an achievement. It's for health experts, scientists peers. A lot of immunology, in his humble opinion, the element most ignored is the immunology. it's evolving. There are all kinds of antibodies. Immune response evolving as the virus evolves. Wanted to document it, illustrate the scientific rationale so no one could say this was unpredictable, no one could know this... no, there is a way to understand this. Very clear to him that nothing more predictable than this mass intervention would not have a happy end. Did his best to document this.
- Geert: Impact of mass vaccination on the population. People were worried about the vulnerable. To protect them, like flu vaccine. To extrapolate this to all of the population - no need to do that. Prophylactic vaccines, if given before exposed, but this no longer true when vaxxed during the pandemic because no sterilizing immunity. So textbook example of immune escape. Still unbelievable to him they did this.
- Geert: immune response of someone infected vs. vaxxed is different. One element has been completely ignored in this approach was natural immunity and innate immunity. Unvaxxed develope a differnt type of immune response. Being immunology naive when they were exposed, virus spreads, 90% protected because of innate immunity. The first line of immune defense takes out the bulk of the viral load. Explains why naturally induced antibodies have lower titers and decline - because innate immune system took it out already so adaptive immune is weak, not needed. But vaxxed don't stimulate the innate immunity, they use the vaccinal antibodies. Innate immunity can acquire adapted immunity too, so whereas vaccinal antibodies are highly specific and dimished capacity when virus changes, the unvaxxed trained innate immunity is better because not pathogen specific. Immune status of a vaccinee is completely different from an unvaxxed person.
-Shankara explained further that the natural immunity defense is short lived, after the virus it goes away so you have a clean slate for it to react to the next variant, a clean slate. the vaxxed immunity is long lived so they have the same slate that won't work for the new variant, and it can't adapt.
- Geert: not damaged, won't say that - sidelining the innate immune system. when the vaccine antibodies lose their neutralizing capacities, you generate NonNeutralizing Antibodies that bind to the virus. they can speed up the infectiousness to extent innate immune system is sidelined. No longer trained. Not damaged, not destroyed, it's just sidelined. So not trained so body can't rely on it. That's the important line of immune defense and it's sidelined. Critical problem as virus is evolving.
- Shankara: trying to get herd immunity with non-neutralizing vaccine is nonsenical.
- Geert: studying antibodies with long affinity - neutralizing capcities diminishes with omicron, you get vaccine breakthrough infections. Antibodies were elicited by vaxx don't recognize the new variant with sufficient afinity. They can bind even if not neutralizing. Low afinity antibodies - he thinks this is very important, they can still recognize the dominant epitopes, they can mask them. The ones who weren't dominant, are now exposed with immune refocusing. These antibodies are igg4 subtype. These antibodies, and maybe this is why they provoke tolerance, they hamper uptake to antigen presenting cells. (this is getting too technical to take notes!)
- Geert: relevance to day to day life? He wants to know about these antibodies is what is their function. It seems likely that ultimately vaccine breakthrough infection leads to more non-neutralizing antibodies. Is anyone measuring or characterizing them? If this is the case of repeated breakthrough infections continue to stimulate and boost their non-neutralzing antibodies. these are the ones that are right now are still prtoecting from severe disease. But they are weak, they are temporal, unless continually stimulated by reinfection. but this puts immune pressure on severe disease. How immune response is changing as a function of evolving virus, we have to study this.
- shankara: you develop NonNeutralizing Antibodies. That prevents severe illness. But they are non-neutralizing. At this point, we see decrease in severe illness. but the vaxxed are developing NNA. That puts pressure on the virus itself. Virus can be more infectious or more virulence. The contagiousness will reach it peak, because nna prevent death, the virus will mutate into more virulence to overtake this.
- Geert: we have made this mistake with omicron. Omicron was highly infectious, spreading... people were saying this is fantastic, this will boost vaccine immunity. Variants keep coming, they are not posing severe disease, but they are still very infectious. where to do we have in any history any example that becomes more infectious that can't be neutralized by neutralizing antibodies that becomes endemic. Golden rule - if you can't stop transmission, you can't stop virus. We don't have sterilizing immunity.
- Philip: even though we're not seeing severe disease, but we are seeing excess mortality. Shankara: we seen increase to excess deaths not from covid, that's from the pathogenicity of spike protein itself. (gets very technical on spike protein). Biodistribution in cells around the body we're going to see a wide auto immune reaction to address the foreign protein. So vaxx is double edged sword - it causes these immune problems of the NNA on the one hand, and on the other hand we have the pathogenicity of spike protein on its own and vaccine makes it in the body we see the long term biological effects of spike protein.
- what would Geert tell them now. Geert: It's increasing difficult to get out of this. Omicron is point of no return. He's primarily concerned now of continuing evolution of virus to immune pressure. So if that is the concern, at this stage where it becomes more tricky, suppression of severe disease, that MIGHT be lifted, in the past he said let's do very early treatment; virus is now highly infectious, tehre might be a risk of enhanced severe disease, anti-virals now prophylactically - don't wait for disease. We have to correct with mass prophylactic antivirals. that would bring down the transmission, along with the unvaxxed, so can control the virus. highly vaxxed countries would need it to high level of population. He clearly says in his book there will be a certain percentage of vaccinees who will still be protected as the unvaxxed (not mrna). When they were exposed, now many boosted. There is a grey zone in between. Unvaxxed have to stay in good health to be immune. He has no recommendations of how to get out of this. Omicron will be remembered in history as the point of no return, self fueling large scale immune escape breakthrough infections. We can't stop it now, he's very concerned about.
- Shankara: we'll see a lot of morbidity and mortality we can't explain going forward. Use anti-virals liberally. stop vaxx. Look at anti-virals, give liberally. Unvaxxed are safe, their threat is a new variant that they don't have immunity to from the vaxxed. But he's sure they can train their immunity. And that doesn't even take into acct the side effects of the vaxx itself.
Closing thoughts:
Shankara : for everyone, no more vaccinations. We need to detox from spike protein. Vitamin D, exercise, sunlight, peak health. Waiting for delayed reaction thats to come.
Geert: now primarily up to clinicians to be very vigilant. In highly vaxxed countries we have been profoundly a natural balance between a pathogen and the host immune system. His fear is that we are at a tricky point, we need to do the best we can when people succumb to more virulent variants to save lives. use antivirals when the virulence appears to save lives. Avoid the health system crashing.
Shankara: when dealing with population dynamics, even the slightest adjustments have profound changes. we've increased the deaths, we've decreased fertlity. And just those two can lead to extinction to humanity as we know it. That's how profound this is. Vital for people to understand the impact on humanity. Trust nature to restore balance, stop interfering with it.
They had a chat and q& a after the youtube part of the video ended (don't know where you can see it?)
THANK YOU!!!!Good job HD. You're able to follow the tech of this better than me.
Here's the ling to the short chat after the conference: After Conference discussion with Geert and Shankara
This virus is a bio weapon for sure. Thanks for transcribing HD.THANK YOU!!!!
Here are my notes after listening:
Geert: before the corona virus crisis started he had a rough time, he was lucky enough to rectify the situation with his family. It strengthened him, he's very strong. So not suffering from the criticism. His family and friends, no one is vaxxed so no tension, very relaxed. Very important not to make big mistakes. They are heavily scrutinized, and if they are right, they are criticized, so having relaxing family life is helpful. Convinced his message should be taken seriously and that drives him, that's his passion. A unique moment in history, we must keep fighting for truth. Passion for truth.
Philip - going into toughest period. challenging. for next 15-20 years we will have to look thru a spectrum of covid -19, every specialty will be effected for that long. Changes trajectory of society. He made a prediction that he thought he'd see 100 million excess deaths, the more he hears and observes he still thinks it will happen. He just can't tell time.
Geert: initially he thought it would go very very fast. The immune escape. But the immune refocusing changes that, the mrna vaxx, neutralizing antibodies, etc. That's the result of immune refocusing. Gave the immune system a break, delayed evolution for some time. The evolutionary sense delayed the time line. So he's now cautious about pronouncing time lines, not because of first error, but because what is happening right now it might be very well the case the virus is changing through glycocillation (?) profiles. We have no experience or documentation how under immune pressure glycocillation patterns and profiles can get modified and what kind of time this takes. So he really doesn't know. But maybe the increase in hospitalizations we are starting to see, a little bit more mortality, may be the prelude. The situation is becoming extremely complex. We are dealing with a virus that completely changed its behavior, very different from Wuhan version. It possibly can go to other organs, liver, spleen, etc not just lungs. Also the issue with the spike. They start to overlap so since nothing is still typical, and complication with side effects, a very complex pathology we don't know the agent causing all of this.
Shankara: It's a complete nightmare to treat. Getting symptoms that you can't associate with pathologies you trained with. You have to be very vigilant to know what pathologies spike protein is causing. Time line, look at population to predict timeline. It's like a piece of paper blowing across the yard. You know the direction but you don't know when the paper will actually get there. But you know the wind direction. So over a period of a month or 2 it can all of a sudden explode. All that's required is for the circulating variants to select for the most virulent one.
Geert: what about shedding. Nowadays what they mean is usually shedding of spike protein, I will leave to Shankara. It's not viral shedding, it's vaxx shedding, so he will pass on discussing because he's a virologist (TOO BAD, I WISH HE WOULD WEIGH IN ON IT FROM HIS PAST EXPERIMENTS!) . As far as viral shedding of the virus itself goes, under impression because of recurrent infection and the activation of CTL's in vaccinees, the viral shedding may be diminished, which puts pressure on replication of virus. If that route of transmission is diminished because shedding is diminished, so virus can't be transmitted easily to another person, so to sustain its survival will spread in the body of the host and disseminate in body so that is higher virulence. But shedding spike how it can contaminate non vaxxed, he always found this a very difficult question so leave it to Shankarra.
Shankarra: shedding is well document, it occurs. Menstrual irregularities, breast milk. It can be shed by exosomes, thru bodily fluids, as well as mrna shedding through exosomes and bodily fluids. Not same impact as vaccine, he's doubtful of that. but it does occur. How long? many studies, a lot of variation in that. Some studies show up to 60 days can shed.
Geert: (Bulgaria and the WHO question, implying Geert was planning on going to Bulgaria becasue they didn't sign WHO treaty). Answer: This has nothing to do with WHO. Can't write a book like he did and realize it might not have a happy end. It's logic, he's not panicking, not obsessed, but he has a plan B. Plan B one of the things, if it becomes a really bad situation wouldn't it be good to have a possibility to spend some time in a country that he can drive to that has a low vaccination rate. In Europe is Bulgaria. So that's why he asked about Bulgaria. In regard to treaty, doesn't believe in these things, nature will determine, not mankind.
Philip: were nations deceived by pharmaceuticals? How do you get the public to believe this was just an oversight.
Shankara: impossible. Populations aren't stupid. We have to redress what happened. It was about money, power, human rights, confirmed consent, our freedoms, our constitutions, our sovereignty. People who did it need to justify what happened,
Geert; agree with Shankarra. Pointing to trigger to institutions that made this possible. From very beginning he reached out to WHO in 2021, everybody knows they are dependent financially. They made a huge mistake making it a health emergency of international concern without having the vaccines themselves so opened the door to big pharma. He worked for big pharma. It's not about health, it's about enriching share holders. So when you open door to be pharma, you know what you will get and you decide to open it massively, in an environment where there is no competition between companies, so built an alliance, chaperoned by WHO, with politicians being puppets. It's all about money, and agendas, and hiding. Becomes worse and worse. Doesn't know who will be accountable, so much happened behind curtains we don't know, the contracts that were signed, it's appalling.
Geert; (question: after bad virus arrives, how long to herd immunity.) think in terms of diminishing viral transmission. 2 possibilities, sterilizing immunity developed by unvaxxed and the other possibility for vaxxed in higher vaxxed countries is to prevent them from transmitting. Hospitalized or one way or another to disappear. The transmission can be reduced to a level we truly eradicate it, instead of driving into endimicity. How long will it take, depends on percentage of unvaxxed, how many shots the vaxxed got. Difficult to say. He can not imagine if this starts that it will take a long time. It will be very serious, big wave, will develop independently in different countries, won't be a lot of transmission, but each country will get this outcome on its own. To clear the virus, depends on whether they implement antivirals, which vaccines, percentage of vaxxed, how many unvaxxed. Difficult to stay. Won't last for years and years. For virus itself, not the side effects and long term sequale or immune disturbance due to spike. But acute phase that will lead to herd immunity can't last a long time.
Shankaraa; vaxxing the young population is crazy, that is your herd immunity. Africa evaded the vaccine, not the pandemic.
Geert: they evaded the immune escape by not vaccinating.
Here is the sub-stack article:
View: https://twitter.com/zombywoof2022/status/1637155560410734594?s=46&t=OPE0T1OQsHivoz1auQUcBQHere is the sub-stack article:
Quote: "I disagree with [Sasha Latypova’s] conclusion that the injuries and deaths resulting from the lack of regulatory oversight are intentional murder by a cabal of omnipotent “globalist central bankers” whose aim is to depopulate the planet."
A clarification on my part is required, because I believe my position has been inadvertently mischaracterized. (in the quote above.)
This does not describe my position or research focus correctly. The cabal of central bank private OWNERS (not the same as banks themselves) being behind the “covid pandemic” is only an educated guess on my part.
My research has been focused less on the ultimate ownership structure and much more on the executive organizational structure of the covid crime, which is not fuzzy at all.
I am writing about the cartel’s funding, manufacturing base, distribution, its dealers and enforcers and those who directly implement murder/manslaughter. I don’t have the name of the Godfather or his/her consiglieri.
I am studying the crime scene around me, which looks like this:
We have a mass murder/mass injury event ongoing and bodies are piling up. The deaths and injury are the result of the forced injections of “health products” that do not comply with any regulations for pharmaceuticals nor the lists of ingredients or advertised chemical composition. Thus they should be deemed de-facto poison.
Even if the manufacturers managed to produce these substances with fidelity to the label and the law, the products would be still extremely dangerous to administer on a mass scale due to numerous toxicities built into their design, which is perfectly well known to the regulators and manufacturers.
Albeit, the latter got rid of employees with expertise and conscience to know this in the years immediately preceding “covid success”, and replaced them with diversity hires and software.
The needles are in the hands of “nice people from healthcare” who are doing their jobs as commanded by their superiors. I am tracing this organization back, starting from the weapon of murder and assault - the needle.
Here is the clarification of my position:
- The mass injuries and deaths by the mRNA/DNA injections are intentional. They should be investigated as a crime of mass murder and attempted mass murder by poisoning.
- The lack of any enforcement action by HHS on the injuries and deaths is also intentional. This is demonstrated by the now very obvious refusal of the officialdom to stop them or limit in any way, despite clear evidence of their harm.
- HHS is following the orders of the National Security Council and the DOD as the Chief Operating Officer of the Operation Warp Speed, i.e. the HHS is operating under the military command structure. Debbie Lerman has identified NSC in charge of covid policy in her past writing, and I am grateful to her for pointing me in that direction.
- The organizational structure that is responsible for the execution of this crime in the US can be described as follows: POTUS=>NSC=>DOD=>HHS=>state and local health authorities => owners/administrators of health delivery settings=>local vaccinators.
- All men and women in positions of authority in the above organizational structure operate treasonously and under the color of law.
- What organization is above the treasonous US officials, I can only guess. I do not believe it’s the “market forces” of investors wanting returns and new marvelous tech of the “mRNA platform”. I have familiarity with both, market forces, and with central command-control structures and I am convinced that there is a centralized global control of this operation due to the perfectly implemented global lockstep procedures and control of ALL governments. The US alone cannot do this.
- The DOD is in charge of funding and ordering the injections from complicit pharmaceutical manufacturers, bypassing pharmaceutical regulations, and utilizing opaque defense purchasing systems typically used for weapons manufacture. DOD is in charge of the distribution of injections to the intended targets - the people of the United States. The intended targets also include military service members, government workers and even expendable employees of the pharma companies.
- The pseudo-legal statutory framework that the treasonous men and women are utilizing to commit these crimes has been described in detail by Katherine Watt.
Way out of my pay grade HD, but keep at it. I think you're right on their heels.After listening to Geert for so many months, and after some studies we posted here about some weird hyper immune response (I'll have to search the thread which isn't going to be easy because i don't remember what immune response it was so don't have a search term. Does anyone remember what I'm talking about***?), I'm guessing there is more to this study and that we really need Geert or Igor's evaluation of it. I wonder what the t cells of the unvaccinated would be if they were exposed to covid again, and not just recovering for 4 months. You would think it would go down if they were getting better and the elevated t cells if you're no longer sick may not be such a good thing... (?????). Although I vaguely remember Geert saying the vaccinees had elevated t cells which for now was protecting them from all kinds of diseases, I think he said it around the time the monkeypox outbreak was going on. One more thing to note - this study was done in 2021 - long before Omicron, which changed things dramatically according to Geert's last few videos.
Thailand Medical News also reported on t cells tonight too so I'll post that next.
*** I found it - those articles had to do with the IG4 response, not t cells but somehow this has to fit together. I hope Igor does a substack about this new paper and makes sense of it for us.
Booster-Caused IgG4 Immune Tolerance Explains Excess Mortality and "Chronic Covid"
Perhaps Giving Unproven Vaccines to Billions was a Bad Idea, After Alligorchudov.substack.com
and here are the posts on this thread, click on the post number and it should take you there:
posts #66,473, #66,514 , #66,870, #66,882
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
(fair use applies)Getting COVID-19 Could Weaken Your Immune System
A study illustrates how SARS-CoV-2 can damage your immune response.news.yahoo.com
Getting COVID-19 Could Weaken Your Immune System
Alice Park - TIME
Mon, March 27, 2023, 10:37 AM EDT
Even relatively easy bouts with COVID-19 can still take a toll on the immune system, according to a paper published Mar. 15 in the journal Immunity—particularly on T-cells, which provide long term and durable protection against viruses.
Mark Davis, a professor of immunology at Stanford University and director of the Stanford Institute for Immunity, Transplantation, and Infection, and his team made the discovery when studying T cell responses to SARS-CoV-2 among 72 people through the early months of 2021, as the first COVID-19 vaccines were becoming available. They used the most sensitive method available to track changes in T cell responses, relying on an engineered molecule that can detect up to five-fold more T cells targeting SARS-CoV-2 than other molecules. The researchers focused on three groups of people: those who were not yet vaccinated and had gotten COVID-19, those who were fully vaccinated with two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech mRNA vaccine and had not been infected, and people who had gotten vaccinated after recovering from COVID-19.
The researchers looked at a group of T cells called CD8 cells, or killer T cells, which destroy and remove infected cells during the latter part of an infection. Davis was surprised to find that levels of CD8 cells were lower among people who had gotten vaccinated after recovering from COVID-19, compared to those who had been vaccinated and never infected. The results differ from changes in antibodies, which are the body’s first line of defense and help block viruses from infecting cells. Studies of COVID-19 patients show that antibody levels in people who have been vaccinated and infected tend to be slightly higher than levels of antibodies among those who have been vaccinated and never been infected—creating hybrid immunity. The opposite was true with CD8 cells. “Sometimes you do experiments and don’t always know what you’re going to get, and something jumps out at you, and that was the case here,” Davis says. The fact that they saw “dramatically lower CD8 or killer T cell responses than everyone else” indicated that “there was some damage—something was happening after the infection in these people.”
Because researchers took multiple blood samples from the volunteers over the four-month study, they were able to delve deeper in how the T cell populations were changing, and confirmed the pattern. Vaccinated people who had not had COVID-19 generated CD8 T cells up to 67.1-times higher than they did before they got the shots. While people who had recovered from COVID-19 and then got vaccinated also produced higher levels compared to baseline, these were anywhere from 3.6- to 54-times lower than the levels generated by the first group. “It turns out the virus suppresses CD8 responses,” says Davis. “It could be making it more difficult for CD8 cell populations to come back up again.”
“The message is that with this disease, we are not completely out of the woods yet when the virus is gone,” says Davis. “We generally think in terms of the T cell response that more is better, so what we saw in the reduction in the number of cells can’t be good.”
Researchers don’t yet know what a weaker CD8 response against SARS-CoV-2 means for a person’s health. But the study also showed that people in this group still benefited from the vaccine—just not as much as those who hadn’t been infected before getting it. Levels of CD8 cells among those who had infections and then were vaccinated were still higher than levels among unvaccinated people.
The results raise the question of whether the apparent damage to CD8 T cell production might contribute to a greater risk of Long COVID, but more data are needed to explore that possibility. “There can be lasting damage that might be resulting in something like Long COVID, or it might be something else,” says Davis. “We don’t know yet.”
Given these findings, can repeated COVID-19 infections continue to dampen the T cell response, and increase the likelihood of Long COVID or worsening symptoms? It’s possible, since experts believe that the T cell response is responsible for the more durable protection that keeps people from experiencing severe disease resulting in hospitalization or death. But that question, too, remains unanswered.
These results, which shed light on how T cell immunity responds to natural infections and vaccines, should play a role in ongoing discussions about booster shots, says Davis. Another key will be studying whether the same pattern is found with other types of COVID-19 vaccines that don’t rely on mRNA. He and his team also looked at CD4 T cells, or helper T cells, which work with antibodies soon after infection to block as many viruses from infecting cells as possible. They found that, unlike with other vaccines against viruses, the CD4 and CD8 T cell responses are not synchronous after immunization. Normally, both populations of cells rapidly increase in response to a vaccine, but after the Pfizer-BioNTech shot, levels of CD4 cells rose first, while CD8 cells didn’t peak until two weeks later. Davis suspects that may be related to the mRNA vaccine formulation and the way the mRNA shots present the viral targets to the immune system.
“We hope that with this study, people will look at some of the more recent vaccine formulations, not just mRNA,” he says, to gain more knowledge about which formulation might produce the strongest T cell response. As more and more people get infected, “the best impact of this would be to stimulate further investigations to see if we can boost those CD8 T cells.”
I wonder if this is the same as, or similar to the nasal spray, I bought at the Indian pharmacy two years ago where we bought our ivm?(fair use applies)Game-Changer Nasal Spray: A Universal Shield Against All COVID-19 Variants
Researchers have developed a molecule that is, when administered nasally, extremely effective in preventing the disease caused by all known variants of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. The molecule can be a key tool in preparing for future pandemics, as it is aimed at preventing both thescitechdaily.com
Game-Changer Nasal Spray: A Universal Shield Against All COVID-19 Variants
By University of Helsinki
March 28, 2023
Researchers have developed a molecule that is, when administered nasally, extremely effective in preventing the disease caused by all known variants of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19. The molecule can be a key tool in preparing for future pandemics, as it is aimed at preventing both the transmission and spread of the virus.
In laboratory animal studies, a molecule known as TriSb92, developed by researchers at the University of Helsinki, has been confirmed as affording effective protection against coronavirus infection. The molecule identifies a region in the spike protein of the coronavirus common to all current variants of the virus and inhibits its functioning.
“When administered nasally, the TriSb92 molecule is extremely effective in preventing infection, and experiments carried out in cell cultures indicate that it also encompasses the very latest variants, including XBB, BF7, and BQ.1.1,” explains Postdoctoral Researcher Anna R. Mäkelä from Professor Kalle Saksela’s research group.
Animal models have also demonstrated that, unlike face masks, the molecule can, when sprayed into the nose, prevent infection even after a few hours of exposure.
According to the researchers, the molecule remains fully functional at room temperature for at least 18 months, making it well-suited for use as a nasal spray.
The results were published on March 24 in the Nature Communications journal.
Anticipation of future viral variants
While the worst stage of the coronavirus pandemic is, at least for the time being, behind us, nasally administered protection can be a crucial help in preventing the spread of the virus in the future.
“The latest variants effectively avoid the immune protection provided by both vaccines and the COVID-19 disease, and current vaccines are not effective in preventing transmission,” Mäkelä says.
Moreover, the nasal spray can protect those people from serious disease who do not gain sufficient immunity from vaccines, such as immunocompromised individuals and elderly.
According to the researchers, the molecule could also work against future animal-borne close relatives of SARS-CoV-2, which are expected to be the cause of entirely new coronavirus pandemics.
“Since the region in the coronavirus’s spike protein affected by the TriSb92 molecule has remained almost unchanged in all viral variants so far emerged, it can be assumed to be effective also against future SARS-CoV-2 variants,” Mäkelä confirms.
“The easily and inexpensively produced TriSb92 could be a very important first line of defense in curbing such a new pandemic, pending the development, production, and distribution of vaccines,” she adds.
A copyable approach
According to the researchers, the sherpabody-technology used is also applicable to the prevention of many other viral diseases, particularly influenza, and other respiratory viruses.
“The whole approach stems from a technical solution based on a binder protein platform developed in Finland, which was not originally intended for the development of an antiviral drug. It provides an opportunity for many other new initiatives based on the accurate identification of diseased cells or pathogens in patients,” Mäkelä says.
In the next stage, the molecule must be tested in clinical trials, after which it could be made commercially available.
“Successful commercialization of the nasal spray could lead to the creation of a thriving Finnish business,” Mäkelä points out.
Reference: “Intranasal trimeric sherpabody inhibits SARS-CoV-2 including recent immunoevasive Omicron subvariants” by Anna R. Mäkelä, Hasan Uğurlu, Liina Hannula, Ravi Kant, Petja Salminen, Riku Fagerlund, Sanna Mäki, Anu Haveri, Tomas Strandin, Lauri Kareinen, Jussi Hepojoki, Suvi Kuivanen, Lev Levanov, Arja Pasternack, Rauno A. Naves, Olli Ritvos, Pamela Österlund, Tarja Sironen, Olli Vapalahti, Anja Kipar, Juha T. Huiskonen, Ilona Rissanen and Kalle Saksela, 24 March 2023, Nature Communications.
DOI: 10.1038/s41467-023-37290-6
I kind of doubt it because this something new they just discovered. That being said I am really curious as to what you did buy - can you let us know after you find the box? I'm wondering if it is xylitol based, that is something we've discussed extensively on this thread in the past. It's supposed to be an excellent prophylactic.I wonder if this is the same as, or similar to the nasal spray, I bought at the Indian pharmacy two years ago where we bought our ivm?
I’ll look at the box for the name of it.
I can’t remember off the top, but I’ve not even used it yet because it was a pricey, small bottle.
I was told by the pharmacist there, that they all used it before going to any gatherings of people.
I sure will! I’ll do it after work todayI kind of doubt it because this something new they just discovered. That being said I am really curious as to what you did buy - can you let us know after you find the box? I'm wondering if it is xylitol based, that is something we've discussed extensively on this thread in the past. It's supposed to be an excellent prophylactic.
HD
The Italian health authorities have a problem they should investigate: in 2022, Italy had excess mortality of 11-25%.[Google translation] What are the “offending” statements? «Sudden deaths are on the rise and half of the deaths are due to Sads, the sudden adult death syndrome» Petterle explained to La Verità «one out of two middle-aged deceased was healthy and in all known damage to the gland pineal, as if their immune system is impaired. The corpses are still swabbed: if positive they are removed from relatives». Petterle, always to the newspaper, said he was concerned about the increase in deaths from myocardial infarction and the need to perform more autopsies to get to the causes.