WAR trouble brewing again in ukraine

N

northern watch

TB Fanatic
Ukraine, Turkey leaders meet in Istanbul
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is in Istanbul to meet with Turkey’s president
By The Associated Press
10 April 2021, 08:05


Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy visits the war-hit Donbas region, eastern Ukraine, Friday, April 9, 2021. Ukraine's president is visiting the area of conflict in his country's east amid an escalation of tensions that has raised fears of a res

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The Associated Press
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy visits the war-hit Donbas region, eastern Ukraine, Friday, April 9, 2021. Ukraine's president is visiting the area of conflict in his country's east amid an escalation of tensions that has raised fears of a resumption of large-scale hostilities. (Ukrainian Presidential Press Office via AP)

ISTANBUL -- Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy is in Istanbul on Saturday to meet with Turkey’s president.

A statement from Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan’s office said the two leaders would discuss bilateral relations, characterizing them at a “strategic partnership level.”

Zelenskyy’s visit to Turkey comes amid renewed tensions in eastern Ukraine, where Ukrainian forces and Russia-backed separatists have been fighting since 2014. In a visit to troops there this week, Zelenskyy said breaches of a July truce were increasing. Separatists authorities have also accused Ukrainian forces of violating the cease-fire.

Russia has reinforced its troops along the border and warned Ukraine against trying to retake control of the separatist-controlled territory. Kyiv rejects that it is preparing for an offensive. The Russian military buildup has raised concerns in the United States and Europe.

The Turkish and Russian presidents spoke on the phone Friday. Among the issues discussed was Ukraine. The Kremlin said President Vladimir Putin expressed concern that Ukraine “recently resumed dangerous provocations on the contact line.”

Turkey is a NATO member. But Erdogan and Putin have forged a close personal relationship, sealing energy and trade deals. They have also negotiated for opposing sides in conflicts, including Syria, Libya and Nagorno-Karabakh.

Erdogan’s office also said he would discuss with Zelenskyy the living conditions of Crimean Tatars, who have ethnic links to Turks. Moscow annexed the Crimean Peninsula in 2014.

Ukraine, Turkey leaders meet in Istanbul - ABC News (go.com)
 
N

northern watch

TB Fanatic
Erdogan war declaration - Zelenksi:Russia-Ukraine armed confrontation inevitable - Putin decides to start operations Erdogan-Zelenski Council ended - What was announced

WarNews 247
April 10 2021

A declaration equivalent to a Russia-Ukraine war was announced shortly after the end of the 9th Supreme Level Strategic Cooperation Council between Ukraine and Turkey.

Turkish support for the "Crimea Platform" project to restore the territories of both Crimea/Sevastopol and Donetsk-Lugask in Ukraine and the announcement of support for a "Ukrainian request for NATO membership" portend war adventures for the Black Sea region.

History will prove that Ankara acted as a Russian "Trojan Horse" leading Ukraine into dismemberment.

Because the content of the declaration with its objectives and Erdogan's reference that "we are not turning against third countries" is not consistent.

The only questions are "when will there be a start of conflict and how quickly Russia will clean up the ukraine story".

What Erdogan said
  • We support the territorial integrity and sovereignty of Ukraine. We have confirmed our firm decision not to recognise the annexation of Crimea.
  • We have expressed our support for the Ukrainian efforts for international social mobilisation on the Crimea issue.
  • We have stated that we support the Ukrainian initiative under the "Platform for Crimea" which aims to bring the international community closer to Crimea. We hope this initiative will have positive results for all the people of Crimea including Ukrainians and Tatars.
  • We hope that the escalation on the ground that we have observed recently will end soon and the ceasefire will continue.
  • We hope that the current conflict will be resolved on the basis of the Minsk Agreements through dialogue.
  • Our cooperation with Ukraine is not an effort directed against third countries
  • With national defence and security issues in mind, we started working in the form of 2 + 2 (Ministers of Defence and Foreign Affairs). We will therefore strengthen cooperation between our countries
What Zelenski said
  • I am glad to hear that Turkey's attitude will not change.
  • Turkey's support for our sovereignty is very important
  • Ukraine and Turkey's views on regional threats coincide
  • Defence industry is a driver of Turkey-Ukraine cooperation
  • I am glad that the agreements with Turkey are successful
  • I discussed with President Erdogan how to stand up to the challenges in the Black Sea.
  • Joint efforts to deepen cooperation and coordination between us in the fields of economy, trade, tourism, security, defence industry, science, education and young people will be intensified.
  • Coordinated steps aimed at restoring Ukraine's territorial integrity within its internationally recognised borders will continue, in particular by integrating Crimea and the city of Sevastopol as well as the territories of Donetsk and Lugansk.
  • Joint efforts to improve the living conditions of Ukrainian citizens, especially Crimean Tatars who were forced to flee crimea as a result of its temporary occupation, will be strengthened.
  • We agreed to support the Ukrainian NATO candidacy and especially to support the acquisition of a "Member Action Plan" in the near future. We also agreed to promote the interoperability of the Ukrainian Armed Forces with the ED of the Allied Countries.
  • Negotiations on a "Free Trade Agreement" will be accelerated
  • Protection of the human rights of all Crimean residents and release of those illegally detained under international law, including Tatars.
  • Support for the educational activities of the Turkish Maarif Foundation in Ukraine.

Διακήρυξη πολέμου Ερντογάν – Ζελένκσι: Αναπόφευκτη πλέον η ένοπλη αντιπαράθεση Ρωσίας-Ουκρανίας – Αποφασίζει ο Πούτιν για έναρξη επιχειρήσεων - WarNews247
 
danielboon

danielboon

TB Fanatic
Zagdid said:
These platforms (OSA SA-8) took it very hard from Turkish drones in the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict. Are these upgrades?
Click to expand...
the thing is Russia will not play they will when this bear finally breaks out of it,s cage there will be a lot of dead corpses
Ezekiel 38:4 Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya with them
 
jward

jward

passin' thru
EndGameWW3
@EndGameWW3


Update: Kiev estimates there are now 85,000 Russian troops between 6 and 25 miles from its border and in Crimea.
https://twitter.com/EndGameWW3

Update: The 119th missile Brigade of RU based in the Central Military District has been moved 1000 miles closer to the Ukrainian border. It has been moved to the outskirts of Vornezh. Russia is meaning business with this move. They now have Iskander missiles in range of Ukraine.
 
Last edited:
Grumphau

Grumphau

Veteran Member
jward said:
EndGameWW3
@EndGameWW3


Update: Kiev estimates there are now 85,000 Russian troops between 6 and 25 miles from its border and in Crimea.
https://twitter.com/EndGameWW3
Update: The 119th missile Brigade of RU based in the Central Military District has been moved 1000 miles closer to the Ukrainian border. It has been moved to the outskirts of Vornezh. Russia is meaning business with this move. They now have Iskander missiles in range of Ukraine.
Click to expand...
Any day now...
 
jward

jward

passin' thru
EndGameWW3
@EndGameWW3
20m


Pentagon Chief To Visit Allies Amid Heightened Russia-Ukraine Tensions
Pentagon Chief To Visit Allies Amid Heightened Russia-Ukraine Tensions
April 10, 2021 09:26 GMT Updated April 10, 2021 11:02 GMT
U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin (file photo)

U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin (file photo)
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U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin was due on April 10 to embark on a series of overseas meetings with U.S. allies amid rising tensions between Ukraine and Russia and what Washington calls Moscow's "destabilizing behavior."

During the week ahead, Austin is due to meet with government and military leaders in Israel, Germany, at NATO Headquarters in Belgium, and in the United Kingdom. .

A Pentagon statement late on April 8 said Austin will "meet with his counterparts and other senior officials to discuss the importance of international defense relationships, and reinforce the United States' commitment to deterrence and defense, burden sharing, and enduring trans-Atlantic security."

The Pentagon says Austin's April 14 meeting in Brussels with NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg will focus on "how the Alliance is tackling destabilizing behavior by Russia," as well as "rising China, terrorism, and global challenges such as COVID-19 and climate change."

On April 13, Austin is scheduled to meet in Berlin with German Defense Minister Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer and Chancellery Foreign and Security Policy Adviser Jan Hecker.

The Pentagon says the agenda of Austin's Berlin talks include "combatting the malign influence of our shared strategic rivals, and continued dialogue on U.S. force posture in Germany and elsewhere."

Austin's embarkation comes a a day after U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken consulted the German and French foreign ministers about the need for Russia to cease its military buildup in the occupied Crimean Peninsula and near Ukraine’s eastern borders.

Washington has accused Russia of "provocations" in eastern Ukraine and using “inflammatory rhetoric."
U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken (file photo)

U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken (file photo)
A statement from the U.S. State Department said Blinken spoke separately with German Foreign Minister Heiko Maas and French Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian about the need for stepped-up consultations among NATO allies as fears grow of a major escalation in the eastern Ukraine conflict.

Kyiv and the West blame the Russia-backed separatists holding parts of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions for a recent spike in hostilities, while Moscow has pointed the finger at Kyiv.

A recent accumulation of photographs, video, and other data has revealed major movements of Russian armed forces toward or near Ukraine's borders and into Ukraine’s Russian-occupied Crimean Peninsula.

That has fueled concerns that Moscow may be preparing to send forces into eastern Ukraine.

The Kremlin has rejected Western calls to pull back its troops, denying they are a threat while adding that military movements within Russia are an internal sovereign issue.

On April 9, the Kremlin issued a stark warning that Russia could take steps to "protect civilians" in the region in the event of a resumption of full-scale combat operations there.

The first stop on Austin's four-country tour is Israel where he was due to arrive on April 11. During his two-day visit there, Austin is scheduled to meet with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Defense Minister Benjamin Gantz.

The status of indirect talks in Vienna between U.S. and Iranian officials was expected to be on their agenda.

The Vienna talks are focusing on steps that the United States and Iran each need to take to get back into compliance with a 2015 nuclear deal between Iran and world powers -- which the Trump administration abandoned in 2018.

The final item on Austin's agenda, after visiting NATO headquarters in Brussels, is talks in the United Kingdom with Secretary of State for Defense Ben Wallace.

The Pentagon says the purpose of that visit is "to reaffirm the continuing importance of U.S.-United Kingdom defense cooperation to meet global security challenges."
www.rferl.org

Pentagon Chief To Visit Allies Amid Heightened Russia-Ukraine Tensions

U.S. Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin was due on April 10 to embark on a series of overseas meetings with U.S. allies amid rising tensions between Ukraine and Russia and what Washington calls Moscow's "destabilizing behavior."
www.rferl.org www.rferl.org
 
jward

jward

passin' thru
Such is the consensus. I am in the 'long tailed cat in room full o' rockers' stage, somewhere between low level anxiety and active nausea- so by my time table, before summer, and probably inside a month.

Fortunately, I just serve drinks, not forecasts & prognostications.
Grumphau said:
Any day now...
Click to expand...
 
1-12020

1-12020

Senior Member
jward said:
EndGameWW3
@EndGameWW3


Update: Kiev estimates there are now 85,000 Russian troops between 6 and 25 miles from its border and in Crimea.
https://twitter.com/EndGameWW3

Update: The 119th missile Brigade of RU based in the Central Military District has been moved 1000 miles closer to the Ukrainian border. It has been moved to the outskirts of Vornezh. Russia is meaning business with this move. They now have Iskander missiles in range of Ukraine.
Click to expand...
Has their ever been any other time in history where 85,000 troops were move into a war fighting position and not fought?
Sure seems like war soon.
 
Seeker22

Seeker22

Has No Life - Lives on TB
1-12020 said:
Has their ever been any other time in history where 85,000 troops were move into a war fighting position and not fought?
Sure seems like war soon.
Click to expand...

As I recall, the troops in Desert Storm I (One) held off for several weeks before that finally went hot, but I have no idea how many? Large concentrations of front line troops are expensive.
 
jward

jward

passin' thru
Seems clear in this instance the question's moved beyond "will they" on to "how deep will they go and what all will they try to take."

I see Erdogan's come out in support for Ukraine as well, so that makes Nato all in...?

1-12020 said:
Has their ever been any other time in history where 85,000 troops were move into a war fighting position and not fought?
Sure seems like war soon.
Click to expand...
 
Doomer Doug

Doomer Doug

TB Fanatic
Sigh. The ukies are NAZIS look at the video I posted about the Waffen SS 75th celebration. Erdogan is a pscho who wants to restore the Ottoman Empire. Austin the 3rd is a race baiting bigot who took time off from planning his white genocide and military purges to con the ukie fools into actually attacking Putin.
And this is how the USA is 100 days into brain decaying biden's monarchy.
Unprecedented military DISASTER looms for NATO, the USA and Turkey for starters.
Sheesh, the woke army going to fight with the ukie waffen SS.:sheep::xpnd::arg:

Duck and cover.
 
AlfaMan

AlfaMan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Hognutz said:
Biden and the rest of globohomo support Ukraine, therefore I support Putin. As far as sucking the lifeblood from something just wait until The Swamp has no more use for Ukraine...
Click to expand...

I support the people of the Ukraine, not the govt. necessarily. The Ukranian govt. is apparently modeled on a Central American banana republic-an emerging democracy that's made more than a few missteps.

The Russians mistreated the Ukranian people horribly for many years-collectivization, the Homolodor, the forced removal of the Cossacks, etc. And now the Russians are coming again.

I hear a lot on here about the "Nazi Ukranians". The Ukranians joined the Galicia battalion because they honestly thought they had a chance to toss off the yoke of Soviet/Russian oppression. That sounds more like desperation than love of Nazi ideology to me. Sounds more like "damned if you do and damned if you don't" to me.

The citizens don't need the suffering heading their way; and I wouldn't trust Putin in an outhouse with a muzzle on. He's KGB, he's like Winnie the Xi-he's got delusions of grandeur.

Were you aware that ol' Vlad just pushed through changes to the Russian constitution, this week no less? The change now allows him to serve until 2036 or so. Just like Winnie the Xi. That doesn't sound necessarily democratic or free to me.


People can cheer on the Russians as much as they like, as they retake the Ukraine (and it's the entire country he's after, not just the little itty bitty pieces of Donbas and the Crimea everyone seems to think he's after) . But, will you still be cheering when the Russians invade Poland, or Hungary, or Romania dragging us into the fight?
 
AlfaMan

AlfaMan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Oreally said:
that is definitely going to be a problem.

i live in Lviv , kinda by accident, but here i am.

and every, literally, every person here absolutely F'ing HATES and fears the Russians with a passion. everyone. my landlady, musicians i play with, several GF's, kids, store keepers, everyone...

so without a massive occupation force and a new murderous NKVD, there is no way they are going to be able to take the farmland south and east of here (beautiful country going to Ivano Frankvovsk) and make use of it. people will literally destroy all their stuff rather than give it to the Russians.

i mean, there is graffiti all over the city, which has only two ncrossed out letters, the two letters which differentiates Ukrainian Cyrillic from Russian Cyrillic. all over town.

big site in town is the old prison building, now a museum, where the NKVD murdered 6,000 citizens just before the Nazi arrived in 1941.
Click to expand...


For God's sake BE CAREFUL. Have heard there are "advance troublemakers" in all the major cities.
 
AlfaMan

AlfaMan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
naegling62 said:
You express a polar opposite of the view I have and also many on this forum. Your description of that position is very accurate. I enjoy reading your insights.

Either way, not my folk, not my history, not my land and not my fight.
Click to expand...

Thank you for respecting my not so popular views on this subject. I see things a little bit differently in this fight I guess.

I love the Russian people; they're friendly, honest, hard working people. They just don't have the greatest leaders. The Ukrainians are a wonderful folk too-equally friendly, honest and hard working. Both peoples make mind blowingly good borscht too!
I just don't see anything good coming out of this.

Not my fight either; but I've friends on both sides of the fight and I worry about them. Neither see a good outcome.
 
samus79

samus79

Veteran Member
I thought the “Nazi Ukrainians“ referred not to WWII, but to the coup they had a few years ago where Neo-Nazis were involved in the whole affair. I’m not sure how much they were actively involved but I know they were and it was a big deal at the time but it got swept under the rug because we can’t have people finding out Obama and Hillary actively aided Neo-Nazis.
 
samus79

samus79

Veteran Member
Also, what are the odds the new Kerch bridge gets taken out when ethings go hot and what would Putin’s response be?
 
AlfaMan

AlfaMan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
samus79 said:
I thought the “Nazi Ukrainians“ referred not to WWII, but to the coup they had a few years ago where Neo-Nazis were involved in the whole affair. I’m not sure how much they were actively involved but I know they were and it was a big deal at the time but it got swept under the rug because we can’t have people finding out Obama and Hillary actively aided Neo-Nazis.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure, unless people are talking about the Azov battalion perhaps? They have neo Nazi leanings; and are part of Ukraine's national guard. US troops trained this group in 2014 or 2015; maybe that's the reason for the hubbub.
The Svoboda party in Ukraine is the nationalist political party there that is said to have extreme nationalist views, the party does have neo Nazi members apparently. But most far right political parties in Europe do as well.
Who knows?
 
N

northern watch

TB Fanatic
Oreally said:
that is definitely going to be a problem.

i live in Lviv , kinda by accident, but here i am.

and every, literally, every person here absolutely F'ing HATES and fears the Russians with a passion. everyone. my landlady, musicians i play with, several GF's, kids, store keepers, everyone...

so without a massive occupation force and a new murderous NKVD, there is no way they are going to be able to take the farmland south and east of here (beautiful country going to Ivano Frankvovsk) and make use of it. people will literally destroy all their stuff rather than give it to the Russians.

i mean, there is graffiti all over the city, which has only two ncrossed out letters, the two letters which differentiates Ukrainian Cyrillic from Russian Cyrillic. all over town.

big site in town is the old prison building, now a museum, where the NKVD murdered 6,000 citizens just before the Nazi arrived in 1941.
Click to expand...
Oreally, be careful out there.

If you can give weather reports, I would really appreciate it.
What are the local people saying?

Thanks for all input

NW
 
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