OT/MISC Will you ever buy an electric vehicle?

Will you ever buy an electric vehicle?

  • Yes

    Votes: 44 13.7%
  • No

    Votes: 277 86.3%

  • Total voters
    321

Cyclonemom

Veteran Member
Maybe someday, if the cost of replacing the dumb batteries goes WAY down, which doesn't look to be anytime soon.
 

helunnjr

Contributing Member
Perhaps when an electric F-350 or C-3500 with a thousand mile range hits the market... yeah then.

Henry in 29 Palms
 
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vessie

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I just bought two Ebikes from a friend of mine who owns X-Treme Scooters and has awesome E bikes and am checking them in on Alaska Airlines when I go back to my home on Kauai. X-Treme Electric Scooters & Power Assisted Electric Bicycles Wholesale

All I have to do is take the batteries as carry on which the airlines require you do.

You can’t put them in checked in luggage. They don’t want any batteries in the cargo hold.

His bikes never fail and he keeps his warehouse in Kent, Wa. V
 

MinnesotaSmith

Membership Revoked

Electric Vehicle Range​

The window sticker lists an MPGe (miles-per-gallon equivalent) of 129 city driving miles for the electric vehicle that caught your eye. The salesman shows you a chart that estimates your annual fuel savings will be $1,500. With a daily commute of less than 100 miles, your new EV is a budget-friendly choice.

A few months later, temperatures drop, and so does your average driving range. Knowing how your vehicle operates in all conditions can keep you on the go, rather than stranded, miles from the nearest charging station.
Many factors affect EV mileage: speed, driving style and ambient temperature can reduce the range of a full charge. Cold weather presents two main challenges for electric vehicles: Cold air limits battery performance, and running the heater is a significant drain on the battery.

To better understand the impact of climate on electric vehicle batteries, AAA used the Automobile Club of Southern California’s Automotive Research Center to test three vehicles in cold, moderate and hot temperatures. Vehicles were tested for city driving to mimic stop-and-go traffic, and to better compare with the Environmental Protection Agency’s ratings. All of the vehicles evaluated demonstrated reduced driving range in hot and cold climates; the average EV battery range in AAA’s test was 105 miles at 75 degrees Fahrenheit, but dropped to 43 miles when the temperature was 20 degrees Fahrenheit.

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Kris Gandillon

The Other Curmudgeon
_______________

Electric Vehicle Range​

The window sticker lists an MPGe (miles-per-gallon equivalent) of 129 city driving miles for the electric vehicle that caught your eye. The salesman shows you a chart that estimates your annual fuel savings will be $1,500. With a daily commute of less than 100 miles, your new EV is a budget-friendly choice.

A few months later, temperatures drop, and so does your average driving range. Knowing how your vehicle operates in all conditions can keep you on the go, rather than stranded, miles from the nearest charging station.
Many factors affect EV mileage: speed, driving style and ambient temperature can reduce the range of a full charge. Cold weather presents two main challenges for electric vehicles: Cold air limits battery performance, and running the heater is a significant drain on the battery.

To better understand the impact of climate on electric vehicle batteries, AAA used the Automobile Club of Southern California’s Automotive Research Center to test three vehicles in cold, moderate and hot temperatures. Vehicles were tested for city driving to mimic stop-and-go traffic, and to better compare with the Environmental Protection Agency’s ratings. All of the vehicles evaluated demonstrated reduced driving range in hot and cold climates; the average EV battery range in AAA’s test was 105 miles at 75 degrees Fahrenheit, but dropped to 43 miles when the temperature was 20 degrees Fahrenheit.

View attachment 361238
If you look at the link in the article these tests were 8 going on 9 years ago. I could not find any reference to what make, model and year vehicles were the three they tested.

That long ago 100 to 150 mile expected maximum ranges were fairly common for EVs in 2013-2014.

Yes, temperature does impact your maximum range projections. My Bolt loves 60-80 degree outside temperature range and it wakes up with usually a projected maximum range of 290-310 miles with a full charge.

When it is 80-100 degrees outside it will typically have a max range of 270-290 sometimes a little more sometimes a little less.

Between 20-40 degrees last winter max range in the morning dropped into the 240-260 range and using the heater does drop the actual max range lower which shows as the max range projection on the GOM (Guess-O-Meter) drops somewhat faster than the actual miles driven would normally reflect. The heater is a much bigger drain in the winter than the A/C is in the summer.

If it is between 50-80 degrees outside I tend not to run any environmentals in the EV (or at home) at all.
 

spinner

Veteran Member
If you look at the link in the article these tests were 8 going on 9 years ago. I could not find any reference to what make, model and year vehicles were the three they tested.

That long ago 100 to 150 mile expected maximum ranges were fairly common for EVs in 2013-2014.

Yes, temperature does impact your maximum range projections. My Bolt loves 60-80 degree outside temperature range and it wakes up with usually a projected maximum range of 290-310 miles with a full charge.

When it is 80-100 degrees outside it will typically have a max range of 270-290 sometimes a little more sometimes a little less.

Between 20-40 degrees last winter max range in the morning dropped into the 240-260 range and using the heater does drop the actual max range lower which shows as the max range projection on the GOM (Guess-O-Meter) drops somewhat faster than the actual miles driven would normally reflect. The heater is a much bigger drain in the winter than the A/C is in the summer.

If it is between 50-80 degrees outside I tend not to run any environmentals in the EV (or at home) at all.
The seat heaters keep the heater use down for us and use very little energy.
 

vector7

Dot Collector
See the pattern....

You will own nothing …

New California Bill Will Pay Residents $1,000 for Not Owning a Car​

7974eaab-32c5-433a-9ee6-ed70c800c562-large16x9_GettyImages106530683.jpg

View: https://twitter.com/WallStreetSilv/status/1566171448808509443?t=TuX66ddU2QcihWZVbeN6bA&s=19
 

MinnesotaSmith

Membership Revoked
Related:


George Turner 9/16/2022

"Electric cars are as old as gas powered cars. They weren't a very good alternative to Stanley Steamers, but became ubiquitous as fork trucks and pick trucks in factories, along with golf courses.
Some researchers just announced a solid lithium battery (instead of a lithium ion battery) that can be charged in about three minutes.

That won't work. A breaker would go "pop" and the city would go dark.
One a level 2 charger (240VAC, 50 Amp) a Tesla model S with a 100 kWhr battery can be charged in 10 hours.
100 kWh battery at 83% charging efficiency is 120 kWh to charge, which is 12 kW for 10 hours, transferring 420 megajoules. That takes 240 VAC at 50 Amps.

Doing that in 1 hour would take 240 VAC at 500 Amps, and 120 kW. Very few houses even have 400 Amp service.
Charging it in 3 minutes would take 10,000 Amps at 240 VAC. That's impractical. The largest feasible wire is 750 MCM, over an inch in diameter and rated for 500 Amps. So the voltage to the charger will have to be stepped up to 5 KV, like the big line way up high that feeds your entire neighborhood. You'll need three-phases, so the wiring is going to cost you about $150 a foot. 100 feet to your house will be $15K, not including labor.

Plus the charger will need a huge 2500 KVA transformer. Those are nice because they have their own two-door full-height access panels. So for only $180K additional, you get this sitting next to your driveway. Your neighborhood will probably make you put an 8-foot chain-link fence around it.

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And of course someone will have to upgrade all the powerlines between your house and the powerplant, and then someone will have to upgrade the powerplant if more than a handful of customers install super-EV chargers, because your charger needs 2.4 Megawatts and a typical coal-fired powerplant is only going to be putting out about 400 Megawatts.

And at 83% charging efficiency, something is going to have to dump 2.4 Megawatts of waste heat. That's enough waste heat to boil a 60 gallon bathtub of water, and the charging only takes 3 minutes. So the entire setup would need pressurized water cooling. Frankly, you will probably be required to hire three or four specialists to watch all the gages and equipment when you press the big red "charge" button, and there will probably be a 100-foot safe zone.

But the morons in the lithium battery lab are convinced they're saving the world."
 

tnphil

Don't screw with an engineer
I'm not about to drive anything with a 1000+ pound bomb on board.

Li ion batteries may be the most energy-dense, but they can be dangerous. They won't stand overcharge and the charging must be monitored and controlled via microprocessor/microcontroller. And we all know that firmware never crashes, right? In past years, the radiation from a cellphone could disrupt a micro (not so much now). Add to that ESD, electrical noise from on-board electronics, a trucker passing by with a 100W linear on his CB or a myriad of other possibilities.

There are many restrictions regarding Li ion batteries on planes.

And I'm pretty certain lithium mining is not green at all, nor disposal of used batteries. Remember, lithium is used for manic depression. So, what about lithium miners being exposed at length?

If/when they can demonstrate a viable electric passenger plane, I'll consider an EV. Until then, petroleum is the most energy-dense and economically feasible solution.
 

ShadowMan

Designated Grumpy Old Fart
Considering my time in ambulance services and dealing with severe wrecks with gasoline vehicles. I wondering how big the EXPLOSION and resulting FIRE will be when two EV cars slam into each other at high speed!! Should be pretty spectacular like a huge 4th of July fireworks show all in just a few seconds. No need to rush to the accident scene or look for survivors........there won't be any.
 
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flying screwdriver

Veteran Member
Electric car nope, but ebike yes.
And it doesn’t run on coal, I have some solar panels.
Great for running around the city.
Course, it gets there in the back of my truck.

And a motorized bike in case I need better range. I ride it around here. Better street cred. Don’t wanna look like city peeps here.
 

WOS

Veteran Member
I'm not about to drive anything with a 1000+ pound bomb on board.

Li ion batteries may be the most energy-dense, but they can be dangerous. They won't stand overcharge and the charging must be monitored and controlled via microprocessor/microcontroller. And we all know that firmware never crashes, right? In past years, the radiation from a cellphone could disrupt a micro (not so much now). Add to that ESD, electrical noise from on-board electronics, a trucker passing by with a 100W linear on his CB or a myriad of other possibilities.

There are many restrictions regarding Li ion batteries on planes.

And I'm pretty certain lithium mining is not green at all, nor disposal of used batteries. Remember, lithium is used for manic depression. So, what about lithium miners being exposed at length?

If/when they can demonstrate a viable electric passenger plane, I'll consider an EV. Until then, petroleum is the most energy-dense and economically feasible solution.

Not only will I not buy an electric car/truck, I won't fly in an electric airplane....

(this also fits in the "what could possibly go wrong" catagory)

Electric Vehicles to Hit the Skies: Air Canada Orders 30 Plug-In Planes, But Only a Few Passengers Can Ride​



By Mike Landry September 17, 2022 at 6:14am

You still can’t pack a lithium battery in your checked luggage, but by decade’s end you may be held aloft by aircraft engines powered by lithium batteries.

Thursday, Air Canada announced a purchase agreement with Heart Aerospace for 30 of its 30-passenger ES-30 electric-hybrid aircraft it plans to put into service in 2028.

Last year, United Airlines announced the purchase of 100 Heart Aerospace 19-seat all-electric ES-19 planes, and its regional partner, Mesa Airlines (probably better know as United Express), said it was also purchasing 100 ES-19 aircraft, Business Insider reported.

United’s venture capital fund, United Airlines Ventures, joined Breakthrough Energy Ventures and Mesa Airlines in investing in Heart Aerospace, a Swedish startup, with hopes of taking delivery of ES-19 planes by 2026.

Electric planes operate completely on battery power; electric-hybrids feature on-board supplemental generators that use standard aviation fuel.

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The electric or electric-hybrid aircraft are envisioned for use in short-haul regional and commuter service. Turboprop planes have long been used in this service but customer demand forced regional carriers to switch to small jets.

Using jets for short hauls is very expensive, according to a Business Insider report from 2020. Electric planes are limited in range, but with lower operating costs than jets, they might be workable in regional service.

That’s apparently the direction Air Canada, United and Mesa are going — electric vehicles for short hauls.

The goal of the ES-19 is a range of 250 miles by the end of the decade. Air Canada said the ES-30 hybrid can fly all-electric 124 miles and 244 miles with its supplemental generators. The range more than doubles to 500 miles if the plane carries only 25 passengers instead of 30.

But here come the problems. First of all, reduction of passenger load on the ES-30 to increase range is critical.

Airlines learned early that when an aircraft can safely and economically carry a certain number of passengers along with freight and required fuel, the addition of each passenger beyond that number represents almost pure profit.

The reason you find yourself crowded into that noisy aluminum tube with barely enough room to breathe is that airlines are constantly striving to squeeze just one more person on board — the marginal cost of adding that last passenger is minimal, so the additional fare goes right to the bottom line.

Operators of the ES-30 will have to calculate serious economic trade-offs between passenger load and aircraft range.

Off course, trade-offs in aviation are nothing new — it has always been a battle among factors of weight, fuel, payload and gravity. Add more power and gravity loses, but more power requires more fuel and fuel has weight — so adding too much power to defeat gravity can lead to gravity winning.

In electric vehicles, the “fuel” is stored in lithium batteries. Battery service time has improved significantly in recent years, but lithium batteries are still heavy — and compared to jet engine output, they rank poorly in productivity.

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Currently, specific energy in watt-hours per kilogram of battery reaches about 250, while specific energy per kilogram of jet fuel is almost 12,000 watt-hours, Business Insider reported. Electric motors weigh less than jet engines — but that difference in potential energy creates a significant engineering challenge.

Safety is also an issue, of course. Today, due to fire hazard, when you board a plane, the airlines and the Transportation Security Administration make a big deal about keeping lithium batteries from being transported in cargo holds. But soon, the entire plane may be powered by lithium batteries.

Of course, the FAA regulates safety through certification of aircraft, but how serious will the FAA be in the face of the ongoing drumbeat of anti-fossil fuel activists? After all, the big selling point of electric aircraft is the claim of zero emissions. (Review the sad case of Boeing’s 737 Max to see how safety concerns sometimes crumble under pressure.)

Would you feel safe flying in an electric airplane?
I can’t say I like the idea of going aloft in a flying lithium battery. And that’s not an exaggeration. Omer Bar-Yohay, CEO of Israeli electric plane developer Eviation, said: “That battery’s literally all over the place. It’s under the floor, it’s in the wings, it’s in the fuselage in different locations.”

And the battery’s volatility was demonstrated when Eviation’s prototype electric plane Alice was damaged in 2020, FlightGlobal reported. While the aircraft was being tested in Arizona a couple of years ago, its battery blew up, causing a fire.

Business Insider compared today’s lithium batteries to personal computers from the 80s — big, heavy, not very powerful. A lot has changed since then, obviously, and a lot of improvement in commercial batteries could be right around the corner.

Or maybe not. The first PC was developed in 1974, but the industry really began taking off in 1977. The first lithium battery was patented in 1976, so it’s not crazy to think its capabilities should have grown in a similar order of magnitude over a nearly identical period of time. That hasn’t happened.

As it stands, lithium batteries still have a lot of runway ahead of them.
 

TKO

Veteran Member

Electric Vehicle Range​

The window sticker lists an MPGe (miles-per-gallon equivalent) of 129 city driving miles for the electric vehicle that caught your eye. The salesman shows you a chart that estimates your annual fuel savings will be $1,500. With a daily commute of less than 100 miles, your new EV is a budget-friendly choice.

A few months later, temperatures drop, and so does your average driving range. Knowing how your vehicle operates in all conditions can keep you on the go, rather than stranded, miles from the nearest charging station.
Many factors affect EV mileage: speed, driving style and ambient temperature can reduce the range of a full charge. Cold weather presents two main challenges for electric vehicles: Cold air limits battery performance, and running the heater is a significant drain on the battery.

To better understand the impact of climate on electric vehicle batteries, AAA used the Automobile Club of Southern California’s Automotive Research Center to test three vehicles in cold, moderate and hot temperatures. Vehicles were tested for city driving to mimic stop-and-go traffic, and to better compare with the Environmental Protection Agency’s ratings. All of the vehicles evaluated demonstrated reduced driving range in hot and cold climates; the average EV battery range in AAA’s test was 105 miles at 75 degrees Fahrenheit, but dropped to 43 miles when the temperature was 20 degrees Fahrenheit.

View attachment 361238
I look at electric vehicles like this... It's like spending 10,000 dollars to save a nickel.
 
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