OT/MISC Will you ever buy an electric vehicle?
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vector7
Dot Collector
(DNC/WEF) Globalist-sponsored report advocates ‘reducing’ private car ownership
'Prioritize public and active transit while reducing car dependency'
View: https://twitter.com/backtolife_2023/status/1628453808404590592?t=4yq2R_Hw_gwr0MTkFFFGhw&s=19
'Prioritize public and active transit while reducing car dependency'
View: https://twitter.com/backtolife_2023/status/1628453808404590592?t=4yq2R_Hw_gwr0MTkFFFGhw&s=19
TKO
Veteran Member
They want us just like Eurotrash...with the intent of making us more like Africa. The goals...1) Take away God. 2) Take away cars. 3) Take away freedom. 4) Take away guns. 5) Take away the training of our children. 6) Make us 100% dependent on China.
EDIT: Oh, and if you don't go along with all the above you are a racist!
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Terriannie
Has No Life - Lives on TB
vector7
Dot Collector
The End Game...
World Economic Forum up to some dirty sh!t.
Might want to watch this one.
RT 1min
View: https://twitter.com/its_the_Dr/status/1628263150343659520?s=20
And then there is this from the NTSB…
Electric Car Fire Statistics VS Gas & Hybrid [2022 Findings]
Let’s start by looking at some electric car fire statistics that you might find interesting.
| Type | Fires (per 100K vehicles) | Total Fires |
|---|---|---|
| 1. Hybrid | 3474.5 | 16,051 |
| 2. Gas | 1529.9 | 199,533 |
| 3. Electric | 25.1 | 52 |
This information comes from the latest data on car fires from the NTSB for 2022 and was calculated by taking vehicle sales data from the BTS.
Battery-electric vehicles are only .03% likely to ignite, compared to 1.5% for gas-powered vehicles and 3.4% for hybrid vehicles.
ETA: 16 out of 141,000 Bolts like mine have caught fire and all of those were prior to the last battery replacement recall. That is .01%…100th of 1 percent
If Chevy Bolt EVs caught on fire at the same rate as the general gasoline vehicle population (1.5%) then 2,115 Bolts would have caught on fire instead of just the 16 that did.
My wife’s boss’ gasoline pickup caught fire last week and would have burned the house down if the fire department wasn’t close by. The reason was determined to be that rodents had chewed thru the soy-based fuel line.
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Jeff Allen
Producer
Thank you for that data Kris!
Over on Twitter a while back there was a post of "another Tesla up in flames" as some car was burning like nuts on the highway shoulder. I take a closer look and I don't know what it was, but it wasn't a Tesla....badging looked like a Buick. Meanwhile it was a massive dogpile of EV haters....which mystifies me. Why do people HATE and I mean DESPISE a transportation tool????
So, since this thread started my world has changed. I'm in que for a Cybertruck...but at 1.3 million in line....even if 1/2 of the reservations cancel I'm still at least 3 years away from my truck.
Meanwhile...my service van/RV has puked its transmission so I'm working out of a Corolla (PAINFUL) and decided to order a model Y since the $20k price drop (7500 tax rebate +13k price drop)....couldn't pass that by! Delivery window is April 21-June 2 so I should know soon.
Meanwhile the Toyota Sienna we have been waiting for since September still hasn't arrived....hopefully it doesn't burn down our world!
J
Over on Twitter a while back there was a post of "another Tesla up in flames" as some car was burning like nuts on the highway shoulder. I take a closer look and I don't know what it was, but it wasn't a Tesla....badging looked like a Buick. Meanwhile it was a massive dogpile of EV haters....which mystifies me. Why do people HATE and I mean DESPISE a transportation tool????
So, since this thread started my world has changed. I'm in que for a Cybertruck...but at 1.3 million in line....even if 1/2 of the reservations cancel I'm still at least 3 years away from my truck.
Meanwhile...my service van/RV has puked its transmission so I'm working out of a Corolla (PAINFUL) and decided to order a model Y since the $20k price drop (7500 tax rebate +13k price drop)....couldn't pass that by! Delivery window is April 21-June 2 so I should know soon.
Meanwhile the Toyota Sienna we have been waiting for since September still hasn't arrived....hopefully it doesn't burn down our world!
J
Too many downsides to electric vehicles for me, at the current technology level. They take too long to recharge (300 mile range takes at least half an hour, and that's with a Tesla Supercharger type of recharge station - at a gas station one can get 300 miles of range in about 5 minutes), the range is too variable (depending on whether or not you need to use heat and other accessories that suck off effective range while driving), range anxiety is more of a factor than with ICE vehicles, replacement battery costs are sky high, vehicle costs themselves are sky high (and the only way they can be made attractive is by unconstitutional government subsidies). Heating and cooling of electric vehicles in extreme climates significantly decreases range. I'm sure I've left out quite a few disadvantages!
Granted, there are some advantages to electric only vehicles: maintenance during the lifetime of the battery system is very minimal - no oil changes, no coolant changes, no transmission fluid changes. Acceleration and performance can be astounding because electric motors develop maximum torque at zero rpm's (unlike internal combustion engines).
I might consider an electric vehicle if three things were to change: 300 miles of range could be obtained in 5 minutes on the charger, the average range could be increased to 600 or 700 miles on a charge, and the cost decreased to the level of a comparable ICE vehicle. Otherwise, I'm not interested right now.
Granted, there are some advantages to electric only vehicles: maintenance during the lifetime of the battery system is very minimal - no oil changes, no coolant changes, no transmission fluid changes. Acceleration and performance can be astounding because electric motors develop maximum torque at zero rpm's (unlike internal combustion engines).
I might consider an electric vehicle if three things were to change: 300 miles of range could be obtained in 5 minutes on the charger, the average range could be increased to 600 or 700 miles on a charge, and the cost decreased to the level of a comparable ICE vehicle. Otherwise, I'm not interested right now.
Terriannie
Has No Life - Lives on TB
While the fire data was useful in the numbers of fires between gas vs electric, what it doesn't show is the voraciousness of fires between the two.
The electric car on fire is almost instantaneous, enveloping the entire car at once. Door and window locks will not work and the manual override lever is hidden and unless the driver has practice, practice, practice on the utilization of split second timing to override the auto lock, no one will have a chance in heck to escape or someone come to the rescue.
On the other hand, we see many, many times hero rescuers are able to remove even knocked out drivers from a gas car before the fire takes over, sometimes in the nick of time.
Fire prevention is probably the top of my criteria list to overcome along with sustainable, renewable batteries in both the construction & replacement of batteries requiring far, far less non-renewable minerals. (and child labor) Bottom of that list is the time required to energize or "fill up" to get back on the road like we can with a gas engine.
In other words, there's a long way to go before I trust them.
The electric car on fire is almost instantaneous, enveloping the entire car at once. Door and window locks will not work and the manual override lever is hidden and unless the driver has practice, practice, practice on the utilization of split second timing to override the auto lock, no one will have a chance in heck to escape or someone come to the rescue.
On the other hand, we see many, many times hero rescuers are able to remove even knocked out drivers from a gas car before the fire takes over, sometimes in the nick of time.
Fire prevention is probably the top of my criteria list to overcome along with sustainable, renewable batteries in both the construction & replacement of batteries requiring far, far less non-renewable minerals. (and child labor) Bottom of that list is the time required to energize or "fill up" to get back on the road like we can with a gas engine.
In other words, there's a long way to go before I trust them.
Jackpine Savage
Veteran Member
EVs are the new COVID vaccine. They are the latest religion of the Left and they seek to make them mandatory for everyone by eliminating the alternatives. Never mind the fact that the grid won't support them and they aren't a reliable option for many.
From what I've seen they are not viable up here in the winter, at least in rural areas. The trucks are a joke for serious work.
vector7
Dot Collector
Biden: "Our investments are electrifying the great American road trip – all powered by American manufacturing and good-paying jobs.
Hop in."
View: https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1628782998790320130?s=20
Hop in."
View: https://twitter.com/POTUS/status/1628782998790320130?s=20
I'd like to see a comparison of environmental impact of manufacture of gas vs. electric vehicles and recycling/disposal impact of the same.
I somehow don't think I'd want to be stranded in a blizzard for six hours in an electric vehicle. I live in the Midwest where such happenings are not uncommon. Also, I've not seen many recharging stations in my area, like almost none.
I somehow don't think I'd want to be stranded in a blizzard for six hours in an electric vehicle. I live in the Midwest where such happenings are not uncommon. Also, I've not seen many recharging stations in my area, like almost none.
hiwall
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Basically if you live in the rural west you cannot use an EV because normal distances are too great.
Also if you need a work truck it cannot be an EV because they have very poor range when towing or having a heavy load. In the cold states EV's are a poor choice for winter use.
Also if you need a work truck it cannot be an EV because they have very poor range when towing or having a heavy load. In the cold states EV's are a poor choice for winter use.
You will sitting on a fire bomb.
Batteries have a bad habit of going boom big time when charging !!
Jeff Allen
Producer
Interesting take. I do not partake in "MSM"...at all, as in, zero minutes really in a year, so I'm definitely out of touch with what is being advertised or lied about on the news other than the trickle down that comes here and to twitter.
I suspect that the lunacy in CA is the driver of you concern that they will become mandatory. Only the loony left could think its a good idea to replace fossil fuels before replacing fossil fuels!!
As to the grid supporting BVE's, the vast majority of charging should be taking place after work hours when we have plenty of baseload capacity to spare. I haven't seen any studies on this, but, for "normal"...as in something like 90% of workers, the BEV is charged overnight, they leave for work, come home and charge before their morning commute, rinse and repeat. I would think CA would show a problem here first as their grid is already close to "maxed" and the best selling cars of 2022 in the #1 and #2 spots were both BEV's....Toyota came in a rather distant 3rd place. With those sorts of sales numbers I would think their grid would collapse there fairly quickly if its really a pressing concern. That having been said, charging BEV's takes a lot of wattage! I couldn't imagine our current grid handling very many charging in the daytime, but I am not in possession of numbers.
I don't have experience in cold conditions at this point, but, from watching many youtube videos on the cold subject I'm expecting a 10% penalty in winter...which wouldn't be terrible as lately we just haven't had many days below say 10F. However, I do not think I would be considering an BEV for my line of work if I still lived in MN, however, for the typical worker who drives 30 miles round trip....they would really like the fact that BEV's heat up the cabin in about 1/2 the time as ICE vehicles take.
You are not lying, I think I've watched every single truck video on youtube and while they can be good basic transportation, same as any other BEV, they are total GARBAGE for towing. Absolutely not an option at this point. I'm wondering if the Cybertruck will be garbage at towing as well? We should know in about 6 months!
Great points! I've thought this thing through...obsessing even to try and not make a big mistake....and about a week ago I realized, big whoptie do...I'll know within a few weeks if I've botched myself...and I'll just sell it, lose some money or maybe not, depending on wait times, but even if I lost 10k, whatever....thats literally 5 good days of profit, and it saves me 5,000 in taxes. So, when I realized this all my overthinking went away, lol.
As a parting thought, there has to be a bunch of marketing pushing BEV's to kids....all sorts of morons who live in apartments are buying BEV's!!! They have no place to charge!!! Now that places one firmly in the "moron" category I think...plus, why on earth would you buy a new car when you don't even own your own home yet??? Insanity....
J
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bracketquant
Veteran Member
Is "active transit" the white rail cars with all those shackles on the floor?
TerriHaute
Hoosier Gardener
Only if there is no other choice. Family member owned an electric vehicle for awhile and got rid of it because it could not be used for long distance driving and was expensive to charge and maintain.
Funny story from this past weekend. We went to visit DS in Kentucky to celebrate family birthdays in February. His employer provides him with a new company car every two years, the most recent one a Volvo electric hybrid. Grandson claimed that this car is "haunted," because the trunk lid opens randomly on its own. Sure enough, as we chatted sitting in his family room that shares a wall with the attached garage, the car started going nuts. We could hear the trunk opening repeatedly about every ten minutes. Exasperated, DS finally grabbed some rope and tied the trunk shut. Apparently, the trunk closes itself again if it meets some resistance. The trunk-opening frequency had been rare until that day. We were very amused, DS not so much.
Funny story from this past weekend. We went to visit DS in Kentucky to celebrate family birthdays in February. His employer provides him with a new company car every two years, the most recent one a Volvo electric hybrid. Grandson claimed that this car is "haunted," because the trunk lid opens randomly on its own. Sure enough, as we chatted sitting in his family room that shares a wall with the attached garage, the car started going nuts. We could hear the trunk opening repeatedly about every ten minutes. Exasperated, DS finally grabbed some rope and tied the trunk shut. Apparently, the trunk closes itself again if it meets some resistance. The trunk-opening frequency had been rare until that day. We were very amused, DS not so much.
Jackpine Savage
Veteran Member
Zero MSM here too
I see government in general putting their thumb down hard in favor of EVs. Tax credits, subsidizing charging, etc. That is affecting the market and I'm already seeing reduced choices in IC vehicles.
I did some quick searches but didn't find any great data. I 'think' that EV miles driven in CA is probably still in the low single percentage points. I'm pretty sure that the increased reliance on renewables for grid power and more demand by EVs are on a collision course. The sun don't shine at night around here, ha. My local electric co-op just brought on a bunch of wind power. They also just sent out a survey asking if people were planning on buying an EV in the next few years. It seems to be on their radar.
In the winter here I'm seeing reports of 20-50% reduction in range. For distance driving, like going on vacation, it seems like the entire focus would have to be on finding a charging station, and how to kill time waiting for it to charge. In China they have a version of EVs with switchable batteries, you drive into an 'electric station' and a robot swaps out the battery in a few minutes. That model seems to make more sense, unless the goal is to keep people in their 15 minute cities.
One thing I still like to do is put the camper on the truck, maybe hook up the boat, and travel 200+ miles to the west, north, and points in between. There are quite a few places that don't have cell service let alone EV charging stations, lol.
Personally, if I lived in a city and had regular daily commute, I could see myself considering one. But it does piss me off that the government is spending my money subsidizing them.
No. No, they don’t. That is a myth that just doesn’t hold up per the actual numbers. I showed the numbers for last year (2022) in a post above.
Richard:
My 2020 Bolt was $26,000. Not every EV is $80,000+. There are affordable EVs.
My Bolt has a max range of around 300 miles depending on temperature and terrain and an average range of 250 miles regardless.
At my current cost of electricity in Missouri vs the current cost of gasoline, for “fuel” the electricity is 5 times cheaper than the equivalent amount of gas to drive the same distance. Electricity could double or triple and still be cheaper.
We spent $184 in electricity to go 8,000 miles so far.
Relatively no mechanical maintenance required. No oil changes. No filters. No worries about water pumps. No timing belt or belts of any kind. No carburetor or fuel injectors. No spark plugs or wires. No pistons, valves, mufflers or exhaust system, no O2 sensors, no catalytic converter to steal, go bad or replace. No tune-ups. No EPA smog equipment. No emissions inspections.
First scheduled maintenance was at 7,500 miles. Rotate the tires. That’s it.
Do I wish it had even longer range and could charge faster? ABSOLUTELY!!!
But for our primary vehicle for any travel 100 or less miles away, it works great for us. We have never used or paid for a public charge in the 22 months we’ve owned it. We charge at home on 120 volts and wake up to a fully charged max potential range of 300 miles every morning.
On a daily basis, for our driving needs, we don’t even think about it being an EV. There are no worries or concerns. We just get in and go. We have the Chevy Equinox IC vehicle if we need to take a longer trip.
An EV is not for everyone or every situation…yet. But it can work for a lot of people in a lot of situations like ours. Especially as a second vehicle in the family, which it will likely become the primary vehicle unless you do need to drive over a hundred miles each and every day.
Zaphod
Member
Hi,
Many moons ago I read an article about an electric car from Japan called a "Sim Lei".
Looked as ugly as it could get, but, it would at the time, out do an M3 in acceleration.
I wanted one !
Now, I would NOT even think of buying an electric car because of how they make the batteries.
I hope the whole industry making them DIES before more people and land dies due to it.
Cheers.
Many moons ago I read an article about an electric car from Japan called a "Sim Lei".
Looked as ugly as it could get, but, it would at the time, out do an M3 in acceleration.
I wanted one !
Now, I would NOT even think of buying an electric car because of how they make the batteries.
I hope the whole industry making them DIES before more people and land dies due to it.
Cheers.
bobfall2005
Veteran Member
You will be able to keep your gas vehicles.
But, the gas stations will be mostly gone.
The few remaining gas stations will only serve the leadership.
But, the gas stations will be mostly gone.
The few remaining gas stations will only serve the leadership.
Jeff Allen
Producer
Bob,
I think what you are thinking of is carriage wheels.
You will have to drive a car....but only the leadership will have access to carriage wheels.
Right?
Is it possible...that the world will move towards a sustainable energy economy instead of one where we are using up finite resources?
While it is a fact that fracking has opened up a lot of new resource....the returns continue to diminish. For example, where the oil used to just "jump out of the ground".....then it had to be pumped out of the ground (so, for every gallon you got out...it took another part of a gallon to pump it, so you had to pump more than a gallon to get a gallon to refine), now introduce fracking, where you pump 100 gallons out of the ground, but you have to use 40 gallons of that hundred so you are only left with 60 usable gallons....which as you can see is much less productive than oil that "jumps out of the ground".
Bottom line, IF we choose not to act on the reality that we are running out of a resource we are using just in the usa of about 20,000,000 barrels per day (thats over 1,100,000,000 gallons BTW....per day....)
Similar real issues revolve around electricity production. I have a local plant that uses 900 tons of coal per hour. Thats 43,200,000 pounds of coal PER DAY. Every day. Multiply that by hundreds of coal fired plants around the nation. Talk about "unsustainable"!!! We will not be using coal to generate electricity in 150 years, period. So, we either figure this out or our great grand children get to attempt to live in a very dark and at that point overcrowded world, but I'll bet it won't be overcrowded for long!
I think its possible to electrify our awesome economy AND build something that will have our great grandchildren living a good and meaningful life, but only if we choose to change what we are currently doing.
J
hiwall
Has No Life - Lives on TB
It is very true that we are using up finite resources.
But what are the current viable sustainable energy options? I honestly cannot think of one.
Is solar a viable sustainable energy source?
How much oil and other finite resources are used to make the panels? And then you only have power for about 1/3 of each day. And panels have a relatively short life span.
Wind turbines? Again how much oil and other finite resources are used in manufacture and maintenance? And again only work part of the time and have a relatively short life span.
Nuclear? Uses a finite supply of fissionable material. Odds of any new plants being built in the USA about zero.
In research - butterfly kisses, unicorn farts, harnessing leprechaun magic
Jeff Allen
Producer
The folks over at Macro Voices have done a ton of work answering your questions.
1. Geothermal
2. Nuclear
Elon Musk's team seems to think wind and solar are scalable.
I'm not fully convinced on wind and solar. I think they can play a part of our energy needs, but from the research/inputs I've read and listened to, its seems Geothermal and Nuclear are much more promising.
We will solve the supply problem....or....there will be almost zero people in 200 very short years....
The real kicker in solar at present is I think it takes 12 years to get the energy it took to build it back....and, they are rated for 20 years, so, probably by 25 years or so they will be replaced and I am not sure if they are/can be recycled? Maybe someone else here knows??
Wind is much better, energy payback is I believe 60 years due primarily to the massive chunk of concrete in the base....which will last 1000 lifetimes, so, eventually wind finally pays off in energy and then it is significant although intermittent, so it will have to be backed by huge battery banks which will make that 60 year number even longer...
Geothermal will require drilling technology not yet invented, but IF it gets done will be an excellent and inexpensive long term solution!
We need to break ground on nuclear NOW....the new breeder reactors will use the old used fuel we are currently storing for 100,000 years (an abysmally poor plan if you ask me....100,000 years is insanity!!!) after the breeder reactor is done....50 years of storage!!! From what I understand we have many thousands of years worth of nuc material/thorium or what not. Even if we only had a couple thousand years worth of nuc material it seems a good play until the unlimited amount of geothermal energy can be economically extracted.
So, as you say "unicorns", well, what do you think we should try and do? Just keep rolling along until the coal and oil run out in well under 100 years and we have a 99% mass extinction event??? OR....work towards things that can work even imperfectly???
Remember, we don't have to replace 100% of oil...really just 20% or so as almost 80% of every gallon of fuel is lost in waste heat.
J
Firebird
Has No Life - Lives on TB
An EV still cannot accomplish this:Zero MSM here too
I see government in general putting their thumb down hard in favor of EVs. Tax credits, subsidizing charging, etc. That is affecting the market and I'm already seeing reduced choices in IC vehicles.
I did some quick searches but didn't find any great data. I 'think' that EV miles driven in CA is probably still in the low single percentage points. I'm pretty sure that the increased reliance on renewables for grid power and more demand by EVs are on a collision course. The sun don't shine at night around here, ha. My local electric co-op just brought on a bunch of wind power. They also just sent out a survey asking if people were planning on buying an EV in the next few years. It seems to be on their radar.
In the winter here I'm seeing reports of 20-50% reduction in range. For distance driving, like going on vacation, it seems like the entire focus would have to be on finding a charging station, and how to kill time waiting for it to charge. In China they have a version of EVs with switchable batteries, you drive into an 'electric station' and a robot swaps out the battery in a few minutes. That model seems to make more sense, unless the goal is to keep people in their 15 minute cities.
One thing I still like to do is put the camper on the truck, maybe hook up the boat, and travel 200+ miles to the west, north, and points in between. There are quite a few places that don't have cell service let alone EV charging stations, lol.
Personally, if I lived in a city and had regular daily commute, I could see myself considering one. But it does piss me off that the government is spending my money subsidizing them.
hiwall
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Average age of retired power plants in the United States
As seen in this chart, average wind turbine is replaced in 15 years. For solar it is only 10 years.
We have been promised nuclear fusion for the last 50 years. It is not here. Geothermal is basically rare now and we have no current improvements.
It is not my fault that we have NOTHING.
Jeff Allen
Producer
Well hiwall…if our society doesn’t pull its collective head out of its backside and build nukes soon…our grandkids are in for a world of hurt.
It’s very frustrating…Chris Martenson has called a clear warning for years. Nobody has listened it seems.
J
It’s very frustrating…Chris Martenson has called a clear warning for years. Nobody has listened it seems.
J
hiwall
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Hey, we are in agreement.
But the I firmly believe we will build no nuke plants in the USA for a long time (if ever).
Maybe everyone is just praying for a dramatic breakthrough in energy production. Or maybe it is what the WEF wants and the population will drop to a fraction of what it is now.
Instead we have in place a phased shutdown of all coal plants and phasing out of natural gas plants. Most of our nuke plants will age-out fairly soon too.
Maybe with the incredible advanced education our nation is giving kids now we will surely soon have a major breakthrough technology any day now.
Jeff Allen
Producer
Agreed. I’m not even remotely optimistic that the crew running the show will actually act like adults.
J
J
I don’t subscribe to the “it will be the end of civilization” if we don’t (fill in the blank).
The history of humans is adaptability. Remember, it’s only been 200 years from sailing ships to microchips. Only been 25 years for cellphones.
It be the end of the world as you know it, but won’t be the end of the world
The history of humans is adaptability. Remember, it’s only been 200 years from sailing ships to microchips. Only been 25 years for cellphones.
It be the end of the world as you know it, but won’t be the end of the world
Jackpine Savage
Veteran Member
I just got a mailer from my local electric co-op saying that MISO, the mid-continent controller, issued capacity warning for the foreseeable future, while the politicians in Minnesota are set to move up renewable requirements. I see the east coast controller is issuing the same warnings. There are no adults in charge.
www.zerohedge.com
www.powermag.com
Power Shortages Coming Soon To America | ZeroHedge
ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com
ERCOT, MISO Warn of Potential Power Supply Shortfalls
(Updated—May 6, 2022) The Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT) and the Midcontinent Independent System Operator (MISO) over the past week
www.powermag.com
bracketquant
Veteran Member
I'd never want to own an EV because of...crime.
At some point, I'd likely be in a strange city and need a charge. Waiting around for the battery to charge, thugs would know that people at the charging stations are marks. The biggest reason large inner cities have so much crime is that targets are walking or they've stopped. That's why so many criminals go to big cities, there's a surplus of easy marks.
It's really hard to mug someone when they're traveling at 55 mph.
At some point, I'd likely be in a strange city and need a charge. Waiting around for the battery to charge, thugs would know that people at the charging stations are marks. The biggest reason large inner cities have so much crime is that targets are walking or they've stopped. That's why so many criminals go to big cities, there's a surplus of easy marks.
It's really hard to mug someone when they're traveling at 55 mph.
hiwall
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Very good observation