OT/MISC Will you ever buy an electric vehicle?

[Laurane]

From an anonymous State Trooper

I’m not a fan of all electric vehicles. Too many variables affecting battery consumption. Definitely not suited for cold climates. The following experience just cements my distaste for EV’s, especially Teslas.
I get sent to a motorist assist the other day, at the start of our snow storm. Tesla on the side of the interstate, dead battery. So I arrive on scene and the occupants have the right-front door open. They tell me that they can’t open any other doors, because the battery is dead. Sure enough. Can’t open the doors from inside or outside. The driver also can’t get her license out of the glove box where she put it during their trip. Because the glovebox opens electronically… and the battery is dead. You actually have to use the computer in the center of the dash to open the glovebox.
They said they had 10% battery left, should’ve been plenty to get from that location to the charging station nearby. Then all of a sudden the whole car shut off and they coasted to the shoulder.
So now I have to find them a tow. No one wants to tow EV’s. Finally found one company to do it. 8 mile trip to the charging station in Tomah. $1,000! Normal vehicle on the flatbed would’ve been $150.
So now we’re at the Tesla superchargers. Guess what. Can’t open the f’n charging port because the battery is dead!!! The ports open, you guessed it, electronically!!! ‍. And we also can’t open the doors now (had to close the one open door when it was loaded onto the wrecker). The owners manual is in the on board computer, but the battery is dead.
I got the occupants to a store where they’d be warm while calling the rental company to figure out how to charge this POS, so I’m not sure of the outcome. I had to leave for a crash report.
I’ll stick with my dinosaur burner.

 

[Jeff Allen]

I'd never want to own an EV because of...crime.

At some point, I'd likely be in a strange city and need a charge. Waiting around for the battery to charge, thugs would know that people at the charging stations are marks. The biggest reason large inner cities have so much crime is that targets are walking or they've stopped. That's why so many criminals go to big cities, there's a surplus of easy marks.

It's really hard to mug someone when they're traveling at 55 mph.

Agreed!!! I NEVER fuel, nor will I charge in an urban center!

J

 

[Kris Gandillon]

Agreed!!! I NEVER fuel, nor will I charge in an urban center!

J

We have a substantial number of car jackings here in STL area and yes, a significant number happen at gas stations. But I’ve not heard about anyone getting car-jacked while charging their EV in their garage, which is what most of us do.

 

[Kris Gandillon]

From an anonymous State Trooper

I’m not a fan of all electric vehicles. Too many variables affecting battery consumption. Definitely not suited for cold climates. The following experience just cements my distaste for EV’s, especially Teslas.
I get sent to a motorist assist the other day, at the start of our snow storm. Tesla on the side of the interstate, dead battery. So I arrive on scene and the occupants have the right-front door open. They tell me that they can’t open any other doors, because the battery is dead. Sure enough. Can’t open the doors from inside or outside. The driver also can’t get her license out of the glove box where she put it during their trip. Because the glovebox opens electronically… and the battery is dead. You actually have to use the computer in the center of the dash to open the glovebox.
They said they had 10% battery left, should’ve been plenty to get from that location to the charging station nearby. Then all of a sudden the whole car shut off and they coasted to the shoulder.
So now I have to find them a tow. No one wants to tow EV’s. Finally found one company to do it. 8 mile trip to the charging station in Tomah. $1,000! Normal vehicle on the flatbed would’ve been $150.
So now we’re at the Tesla superchargers. Guess what. Can’t open the f’n charging port because the battery is dead!!! The ports open, you guessed it, electronically!!! ‍. And we also can’t open the doors now (had to close the one open door when it was loaded onto the wrecker). The owners manual is in the on board computer, but the battery is dead.
I got the occupants to a store where they’d be warm while calling the rental company to figure out how to charge this POS, so I’m not sure of the outcome. I had to leave for a crash report.
I’ll stick with my dinosaur burner.

Story from “anonymous trooper” is likely BS or everyone involved were total idiots.

All EVs have a regular 12 volt battery that run all the normal electrical components just like a conventional IC vehicle. The 12 volt battery recharges from the main EV battery but like all 12 volt car batteries, yes, it can die and need replacing like any 12 volt car battery.

There are externally accessible jump start posts for re-charging the 12 volt battery as well and/or powering the electrical components enough to overcome all of the challenges they mentioned. Also, there are manual handles on the electric doors, you just have to know your vehicle. Most dealers show you and tell you all of this when you buy the car before you drive away.

 

[Jeff Allen]

I had to run a service call on Saturday when the post above referencing the "anonymous trooper" was posted and Kris did a great job debunking that silly story.

Kris is 100% correct. There is a small "car battery" in the front of every Tesla (I can't speak for other ev's, but trust Kris is correct that they all do, but I know for a fact Tesla's do). This 12 battery supplies the very modest needs that the solenoids for the trunk, frunk and doors need. This battery is completely seperate from the main motivational battery under the floor of the car. So, how does one run BOTH batteries to zero? I guess in exactly the same way one would do this in an ICE car. First, run out of gas. Not complicated, most of us have made this mistake in our driving careers. Then, leave all the lights and radio on for...well...hours....and, presto, you car is now "bricked" exactly like an EV. Thats a lot of stupid to pile on in a single event! IF you manage to drop the 12v battery to zero, there is a very simple procedure to access and recharge it. Of course, thats a lot to expect ouf of this story of idiocy...

Next we have the insanely spendy tow bill. Why? EV's pull up onto flat beds same as any other car....total BS. IF it was that spendy it was because every other tow operator in the state was swamped and you paid a "I can't wait" bill. No different than any other car except of course for an ICE car you can just dump in a couple gallons of gas. It sucks to run out of gas in an EV....but wait, they said its a Tesla....well, guess what, the Tesla CONSTANTLY WARNS YOU to route to charging as soon as you are getting close to not having enough range to get to the next supercharger! You have to ignore the car in order to "run out of gas"....repeatedly.....the car is smart and won't let you run out of power unless you choose to igore its warning to you....which include literally routing you on a huge screen to the closest supercharger! Nothing at all like that single "ding" and a teeny tiny light telling you your gas is low....

For this scenario to be realistic, a main power routing component needs to have failed. Charging isn't going to help, its broken. And...just like all other cars...will need to be towed to a repair shop. Some early model S and X cars did experience situations where their battery was on the low side (say 10%) and then suddenly would go to zero. So, for models 8-10 years old, they have seen a sudden move to zero state of charge, but this is a battery chemistry/BMS issue (battery monitor system) that has since been corrected long ago and will disappear once the battery pack is replaced with the newer tech.

And, once they get to the charger they can't charge....facepalm....there is a manual release in the trunk area to open the door and release the lock mechanism of the charger if necessary. All accessed with the simple procedure to get to the 12v battery up front. Again, the owner would have to know nothing about their car (not surprising), but an ignorant owner doesn't mean the tech is garbage. You know all the settings on your PC? Doesn't mean your PC is junk either. The owners manual is online....not that hard....

Referencing earlier posts.....
And, there is a persistent lie that your ev batteries are powered by minerals from mines in Africa using child labor. Really? You believe this? Do you have any idea how much tonnage we are talking about here??? Right now we are using about 1 million tons of lithium ore per year. How many 7 year olds would this take? Are you realizing you have fallen for propaganda yet? A payloader can move many tons of material in an hour. A 7 year old might be able to move a ton in what...a year??? Are there areas in Africa where people are taken advantage of for their labor to mine all sorts of things? Yes they exist. Considering how little a human can mine in comparison to what a single CAT 966K can mine in a day....this is a poverty problem after all. If avoiding all child labor is your goal, best avoid the key child mining items, things like gold, talc, salt and gemstones which is where the vast majority of child miners exist. But don't take my word for it, see what these advocates for children say: The Borgen Project | Downsize Poverty

J

 

[robolast]

From an anonymous State Trooper

I’m not a fan of all electric vehicles. Too many variables affecting battery consumption. Definitely not suited for cold climates. The following experience just cements my distaste for EV’s, especially Teslas.
I get sent to a motorist assist the other day, at the start of our snow storm. Tesla on the side of the interstate, dead battery. So I arrive on scene and the occupants have the right-front door open. They tell me that they can’t open any other doors, because the battery is dead. Sure enough. Can’t open the doors from inside or outside. The driver also can’t get her license out of the glove box where she put it during their trip. Because the glovebox opens electronically… and the battery is dead. You actually have to use the computer in the center of the dash to open the glovebox.
They said they had 10% battery left, should’ve been plenty to get from that location to the charging station nearby. Then all of a sudden the whole car shut off and they coasted to the shoulder.
So now I have to find them a tow. No one wants to tow EV’s. Finally found one company to do it. 8 mile trip to the charging station in Tomah. $1,000! Normal vehicle on the flatbed would’ve been $150.
So now we’re at the Tesla superchargers. Guess what. Can’t open the f’n charging port because the battery is dead!!! The ports open, you guessed it, electronically!!! ‍. And we also can’t open the doors now (had to close the one open door when it was loaded onto the wrecker). The owners manual is in the on board computer, but the battery is dead.
I got the occupants to a store where they’d be warm while calling the rental company to figure out how to charge this POS, so I’m not sure of the outcome. I had to leave for a crash report.
I’ll stick with my dinosaur burner.

In addition to being a bad concept due to large carbon footprint resulting from manufacturing requirements, toxicity of components, impracticality to those living in rural areas or taking any kind of trip, destructive to areas where materials needed for the battery ruin the landscape and exploit local workers. A good green car concept will eventually emerge - could even be Hydrogen powered cars. The government is probably working against this part of the industry

 

[NoDandy]

Personally, I would never buy a EV for Mrs Dandy & myself.

Our youngest son had to replace his Toyota RAV, and bought a Prius. If I had to get one, I would look at that. As I understand, his has a IC engine, so even lacking a charge, he can fire up the gas engine, and go. Can't do that with a Tesla !

 

[Dozdoats]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7GbzqD03gQ

Elon Musk's NEW INSANE Motor SHOCKS The Entire Industry!
RT 15:14

67,581 views Mar 6, 2023 #tesla #ElonMusk #electricmotors
Elon Musk has JUST revealed Tesla's Next Generation Motor which has shocked the entire automotive industry. Tesla's motors are some of the most advanced and efficient in the market, with a focus on energy, efficiency, and sustainability. Their new powertrain engine is said to undercut competitors with a much cheaper design that will be 2 to 3 times less in cost. Tesla's next generation Permanent Magnet motors have completely ELIMINATED Rare Earth Metals and will reduce silicon carbide in the microchips. This is game-changing as these materials are expensive and are sourced from areas that could have environmental and social impact. Tesla's new electric motor design also uses hairpin stators which will better power the rotors, improving efficiency, heat dissipation, and power output. Elon Musk's insane drive unit is finally here and will mean GAME OVER for companies like Toyota, General Motors, and Volkswagen. #tesla #ElonMusk #electricmotors

 

[hiwall]

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o7GbzqD03gQ

Elon Musk's NEW INSANE Motor SHOCKS The Entire Industry!
RT 15:14

67,581 views Mar 6, 2023 #tesla #ElonMusk #electricmotors
Elon Musk has JUST revealed Tesla's Next Generation Motor which has shocked the entire automotive industry. Tesla's motors are some of the most advanced and efficient in the market, with a focus on energy, efficiency, and sustainability. Their new powertrain engine is said to undercut competitors with a much cheaper design that will be 2 to 3 times less in cost. Tesla's next generation Permanent Magnet motors have completely ELIMINATED Rare Earth Metals and will reduce silicon carbide in the microchips. This is game-changing as these materials are expensive and are sourced from areas that could have environmental and social impact. Tesla's new electric motor design also uses hairpin stators which will better power the rotors, improving efficiency, heat dissipation, and power output. Elon Musk's insane drive unit is finally here and will mean GAME OVER for companies like Toyota, General Motors, and Volkswagen. #tesla #ElonMusk #electricmotors

Quite the pep talk.

 

[Charmer153]

Not willingly.
I would be happy to get a electric scooter to just run up to the store, but not a car or truck EV. If I had to go to town, and there was a traffic jam, again, a EV would never make it to town and back.

 

[Kewpie]

It’s silly to say you’d never buy an EV based on your current politics. Look at the history of the automobile. How many people were convinced automobiles were the mark of the Devil, and fueling them was solidifying?

 

[AlfaMan]

Story from “anonymous trooper” is likely BS or everyone involved were total idiots.

All EVs have a regular 12 volt battery that run all the normal electrical components just like a conventional IC vehicle. The 12 volt battery recharges from the main EV battery but like all 12 volt car batteries, yes, it can die and need replacing like any 12 volt car battery.

There are externally accessible jump start posts for re-charging the 12 volt battery as well and/or powering the electrical components enough to overcome all of the challenges they mentioned. Also, there are manual handles on the electric doors, you just have to know your vehicle. Most dealers show you and tell you all of this when you buy the car before you drive away.

But those 12 volt batteries in EV's are generally micro sized. Like the size you put in emergency lighting. Or a moped. The one in Teslas are motorcycle battery sized. And if the cars sit without being turned on those motorcycle batteries go flat or lose a cell in them very quickly.
Rental car companies are beginning to have to stock those batteries too. And jump boxes are becoming a regular item seen in rental return lanes.

Dealt with a totally dead battery today in a Hyundai Ioniq hybrid. Car would not start for love or money........12 volt aux battery dead, main battery pack dead. It had external door handles thankfully.

 

[John Green]

I bought this one for my daughter and it was junk. It was the slowest vehicle we ever owned and had to be charged quite often.
I will stick with the reliability of the internal combustion engines.

 

[Jeff Allen]

But those 12 volt batteries in EV's are generally micro sized. Like the size you put in emergency lighting. Or a moped. The one in Teslas are motorcycle battery sized. And if the cars sit without being turned on those motorcycle batteries go flat or lose a cell in them very quickly.
Rental car companies are beginning to have to stock those batteries too. And jump boxes are becoming a regular item seen in rental return lanes.

Dealt with a totally dead battery today in a Hyundai Ioniq hybrid. Car would not start for love or money........12 volt aux battery dead, main battery pack dead. It had external door handles thankfully.

You bring up an excellent point any BEV consumer needs to understand. All batteries self discharge. This is annoying if you let your ICE vehicle sit for a few months.
It’s MUCH worse to let a BEV go to zero on the back lot. You will permanently damage the main (read expensive) battery pack.
I suspect resellers will learn to keep their BEV’s charged when sitting on lots for months on end. Or…they will lose a lot of money…more likely they will charge it back up and the customer will be screwed.
If I was buying a used EV through the rip off network of used car dealers…it would have to be priced to allow for a main pack replacement after hearing what AlfaMan has seen!

J

 

[AlfaMan]

You bring up an excellent point any BEV consumer needs to understand. All batteries self discharge. This is annoying if you let your ICE vehicle sit for a few months.
It’s MUCH worse to let a BEV go to zero on the back lot. You will permanently damage the main (read expensive) battery pack.
I suspect resellers will learn to keep their BEV’s charged when sitting on lots for months on end. Or…they will loose a lot of money…more likely they will charge it back up and the customer will be screwed.
If I was buying a used EV through the rip off network of used car dealers…it would have to be priced to allow for a main pack replacement after hearing what AlfaMan has seen!

J

This particular car was sitting in a dealer's garage. It apparently was plugged in at one point. But, someone took the plug out of the wall socket and nobody caught it. Must have sat a month this way. If that battery pack had a memory to it; I'm guessing those memories aren't the greatest on that battery.

And enter into any EV buying equation-does the selling dealer have any experience with EV's? Every carmaker is rushing to put an EV to market; but other than the dealer's EV trained techs the word on care and handling of them isn't getting out there.

And it's funny because your "junior varsity" type used car dealers (the smaller independents) are buying into EV's in a big way. They see profit-but these dealers are the ones that will detail a car first then "maybe" give it a good mechanical once over. Carmax does that a lot-detail the hell out of a car but won't change thin brake pads or nealry bald tires.

So if you do buy an EV, make sure the dealer knows what they're doing when it comes to servicing them.

 

[vector7]

Dang, Chile follows Mexico in nationalizing lithium. In 1973, the US staged a coup in Chile and installed a brutal military dictator who then followed Neo-liberalism and privatization to the hilt.

He was advised by the “Chicago boys” — students of Milton Friedman. He used the infamous “shock doctrine” which is a combination of austerity, privatization, sale of national resources, slashing welfare programs etc. And now look what’s happening!

Chile's President Gabriel Boric said he would nationalize the country's lithium industry https://reut.rs/3H14wJU
RT 2min

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1649362339999936512

View: https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1649362339999936512?s=20

The world's second-largest producer of lithium just nationalized their industry

This is going to make investors hesitant to invest in mining projects in Chile, the worlds largest produce of copper.

Lithium price ($/tonne):
2022: $78,032
2021: $17,000
2020: $6,800
2019: $11,310
2018: $14,660
2017: $12,070
2016: $8,840
2015: $5,110
2014: $4,680
2013: $4,750
2012: $4,450

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1649471697651912705

View: https://twitter.com/TheGlobal_Index/status/1649471697651912705?s=20

 

[Jeff Allen]

Dang, Chile follows Mexico in nationalizing lithium. In 1973, the US staged a coup in Chile and installed a brutal military dictator who then followed Neo-liberalism and privatization to the hilt.

He was advised by the “Chicago boys” — students of Milton Friedman. He used the infamous “shock doctrine” which is a combination of austerity, privatization, sale of national resources, slashing welfare programs etc. And now look what’s happening!

Chile's President Gabriel Boric said he would nationalize the country's lithium industry https://reut.rs/3H14wJU
RT 2min

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1649362339999936512

View: https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1649362339999936512?s=20

The world's second-largest producer of lithium just nationalized their industry

This is going to make investors hesitant to invest in mining projects in Chile, the worlds largest produce of copper.

Lithium price ($/tonne):
2022: $78,032
2021: $17,000
2020: $6,800
2019: $11,310
2018: $14,660
2017: $12,070
2016: $8,840
2015: $5,110
2014: $4,680
2013: $4,750
2012: $4,450

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1649471697651912705

View: https://twitter.com/TheGlobal_Index/status/1649471697651912705?s=20

I find it interesting that the author plainly ignores the reality that lithium prices have dropped 2/3 in the last few months…..

J

 

[vector7]

When your struggling to find enough juice for your EV...

Pete Buttigieg: "Many American drivers — as a matter of fact, a majority — have access to some kind of charging infrastructure in the form of a plug in the wall."

Trickle charge takes forever, call an Uber.

What happens in a California brown/black outs?

You get to lower your carbon foot print and demand

Welcome to 2030
RT 20secs

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1666494775459995674

View: https://twitter.com/RNCResearch/status/1666494775459995674?s=20

 

[vector7]

Connect the dots.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1669788955208826880

View: https://twitter.com/brixwe/status/1669788955208826880?t=5egJbEWEjFtU1LYn3jhUYg&s=19

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1670805287249367041

View: https://twitter.com/brixwe/status/1670805287249367041?t=sQxbK4rGIXdGoOn9HqGdnA&s=19