WAR trouble brewing again in ukraine
- Thread starter danielboon
- Start date
northern watch
TB Fanatic
NATO forces hold simultaneous drills Baltic and Black seas
By George Allison
UK Defence Journal
March 10, 2021
NATO say that it has conducted military exercises simultaneously over the Baltic Sea and the Black Sea, ensuring that “allied forces remain ready to operate together and respond to any threat”.
Taking off from Norway, two US Air Force B-1 bombers trained with fighter aircraft from Poland, Italy and Germany over the Baltic Sea and flew over the capitals of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania.
In a separate event, two French Rafale fighter jets from the aircraft carrier Charles De Gaulle and two Spanish F-18 aircraft on NATO duty in Romania took part in drills involving NATO warships in the Black Sea.
“The Baltic and Black Sea regions are of strategic importance to the Alliance”, said NATO Spokesperson Oana Lungescu.
“Training events like these demonstrate that we fulfil our core mission: to deter aggression, prevent conflict, and preserve peace”, she added.
The Black Sea maneuvers saw the French and Spanish fighter jets “prod the air defences” of Standing NATO Mine Countermeasures Group Two, which is currently in the region. The fleet of NATO minehunters, supported by three Romanian F-16 fighters, faced simulated attacks from the French and Spanish jets, including with anti-ship missiles.
A NATO Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) aircraft flying out of Konya in Turkey and an Italian KC-767 refuelling aircraft supported the drill, according to NATO.
NATO forces hold simultaneous drills Baltic and Black seas (ukdefencejournal.org.uk)
By George Allison
UK Defence Journal
March 10, 2021
NATO say that it has conducted military exercises simultaneously over the Baltic Sea and the Black Sea, ensuring that “allied forces remain ready to operate together and respond to any threat”.
Taking off from Norway, two US Air Force B-1 bombers trained with fighter aircraft from Poland, Italy and Germany over the Baltic Sea and flew over the capitals of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania.
In a separate event, two French Rafale fighter jets from the aircraft carrier Charles De Gaulle and two Spanish F-18 aircraft on NATO duty in Romania took part in drills involving NATO warships in the Black Sea.
“The Baltic and Black Sea regions are of strategic importance to the Alliance”, said NATO Spokesperson Oana Lungescu.
“Training events like these demonstrate that we fulfil our core mission: to deter aggression, prevent conflict, and preserve peace”, she added.
The Black Sea maneuvers saw the French and Spanish fighter jets “prod the air defences” of Standing NATO Mine Countermeasures Group Two, which is currently in the region. The fleet of NATO minehunters, supported by three Romanian F-16 fighters, faced simulated attacks from the French and Spanish jets, including with anti-ship missiles.
A NATO Airborne Warning and Control System (AWACS) aircraft flying out of Konya in Turkey and an Italian KC-767 refuelling aircraft supported the drill, according to NATO.
NATO forces hold simultaneous drills Baltic and Black seas (ukdefencejournal.org.uk)
This latest round reminds me of the Russian invasion of Georgia under the pretense to "rescue" Russian nationals.
Rest assured, Russia Today (RT) will carry it live like they did in Georgia.
Soviet style agit-propoganda with no shame whatsoever. Playing out again in real time.
Runtime 9:23
Ossetia 2008 war anniversary: From accusing Russia to admitting Georgia's attack
Lurker
14
Is NATO really going to back da Uke's? Really? Are we itching for a war THAT bad.
Imagine the fun the Ruskies will have rolling over our pink underwear wearing trannies with a zero ROE.
I've said it before, I'll say it again and again; we were quiet for 4 years and now not 60 days in things are going apeshit.
Runtime 1:33
Donbass War 2.0 Preparation. Ukraine Army transferred tanks, APC & Artillery to Eastern Territory.
View: https://youtu.be/TCtdaUyXHnI
Donbass War 2.0 Preparation. Ukraine Army transferred tanks, APC & Artillery to Eastern Territory.
Short answer - Anything dealing with the Balkans is complicated, real complicated. Much like the Middle East, animosities go back hundreds of years ago.
My own rather biased quick take,
Russia lost 20 million+ people in WWII, i.e. The Great Patriotic War as they call it. Thus the Russians are -extremely- sensitive about their borders. With some justification I might add. To this day, Russia firmly maintains that neighboring sovereign countries are merely buffer zones against potential invaders.
Post WWII, Russia mounted an exhaustive campaign to repopulate neighboring countries with Russian nationals as they carted away or killed hundreds of thousands of "unreliable" citizens from conquered lands. To the point that the adults and teenagers of a town were sent to the Gulags while the the orphaned babies were seized and given to Russian parents in an effort to repopulate Russia after the horrific losses in WWII. It was ethnic cleansing on an industrial scale.
I had relatives from the Balkans, they saw this happen. A neglected chapter of history.
The Ukraine revolution in the mid 2000's saw Ukraine transform from a political proxy of Russia into a fully functioning independent nation state.
Since then, Russia has been fermenting turmoil in the eastern regions of Ukraine known as the Donbass where the current fighting is occurring. All under the pretext of protecting Russian nationals inside Ukraine.
Ask Poland, Lithuania, Estonia, Latvia, Ukraine, Moldova, et al what the Russians think about an independent sovereign nation on Russia's border. As these countries gravitate toward the West and NATO, Russia becomes even more incensed as it's influence wanes.
What the U.S. and NATO should and should not be doing is another discussion.
Last edited:
naegling62
Veteran Member
Before people get excited one side or another, they need to read the history of the region. Not my people, not my land, not my history and definitely not my war.
OK. So, you have at least justified my confusion. I appreciate the response.
night driver
ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
A fine description of the realities in the region.
War?? War hasn't been more than 2 seasons away for a few years.
Just to reinforce your comment, Russia (Soviets) have had issues with the composition of the forces in that area of their old "borders" for years.
This is UNLIKELY to be the crash slam eruptions in the region that some are anxiously awaiting. Vlad ain't that stupid. He understands to wait just a bit more.
War?? War hasn't been more than 2 seasons away for a few years.
Just to reinforce your comment, Russia (Soviets) have had issues with the composition of the forces in that area of their old "borders" for years.
This is UNLIKELY to be the crash slam eruptions in the region that some are anxiously awaiting. Vlad ain't that stupid. He understands to wait just a bit more.
jward
passin' thru
Michael MacKay
@mhmck
1h
A Ukrainian soldier was shot dead by a Russian sniper at Maryinka. Another defender was wounded in action at Pivdenne. On March 12th the Russian army invading Ukraine made 14 attacks, including the firing of 120mm & 82mm mortars. #RussiaInvadedUkraine https://mil.gov.ua/news/2021/03/1
@mhmck
1h
A Ukrainian soldier was shot dead by a Russian sniper at Maryinka. Another defender was wounded in action at Pivdenne. On March 12th the Russian army invading Ukraine made 14 attacks, including the firing of 120mm & 82mm mortars. #RussiaInvadedUkraine https://mil.gov.ua/news/2021/03/1
Doomer Doug
TB Fanatic
Gee a little anti Russian slant in this here article. Russia is attacking Ukraine? What drivel.Russia Escalates Its Proxy War in Eastern Ukraine
Publication: Eurasia Daily Monitor Volume: 18 Issue: 41
By: Pavel Felgenhauer
March 11, 2021 05:37 PM Age: 21 hours
The ceasefire on the line of control in the breakaway Donbas region of eastern Ukraine is unraveling. In July 2020, both sides—the Ukrainian Armed Forces (UAF) and the Moscow-backed “separatists”—agreed to enforce a “full suspension of hostilities.” Both sides withdrew heavy weapons from the frontline starting on July 27, while small arms skirmishes and combat casualties fell dramatically. The ceasefire had been essentially holding until February 2021, when the number of ceasefire violations registered by observers from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) again began to grow. Heavy weapons are reportedly being moved back into positions, and both belligerents accuse the other of “provocations.” Of course, shelling, shootings, deadly skirmishes and mutual recriminations along the Donbas frontline are nothing new. But this time, military observers and politicians in both Kyiv and Moscow seem to seriously consider the possibility that the present escalation could triggering a major “unfreezing” of the conflict and reignite a full-scale regional war that may drastically change the situation on the ground in Europe’s East (Komsomolskaya Pravda, March 4).
The line of control in Donbas has not undergone any significant positional shifts since February 2015, when a winter offensive begun in mid-January 2015 by proxy forces strongly but unofficially supported by regular Russian troops first pushed UAF fighters from Donetsk airport and then out of the Debaltseve bulge north of Donetsk. The Ukrainians were humiliated, routed and suffered heavy casualties. It was not clear at the time whether the Russian-led forces would stop after capturing Debaltseve or push deeper into Ukraine.
Russian President Vladimir Putin, French then-president François Hollande and German Chancellor Angela Merkel, together with Ukraine’s head of state at the time, Petro Poroshenko, met in Minsk in February 2015 to hammer out a formula to prevent the Donbas conflict from escalating into a major regional war. Since then, the Minsk accords—envisaging a reintegration of the Russian-controlled part of Donbas back into Ukraine while retaining a measure of autonomy and Russian identity—have been broadly held up as, ostensibly, the basis of a peaceful resolution of the Donbas conflict. But over the coming years, the Minsk accords have proven to be practically unworkable (see EDM, September 24, 2019 and January 23, 2020). The July 2020 ceasefire was enforced as a prelude for realizing a “Minsk accord” roadmap. In reality, political talks were deadlocked as before despite a relatively successful tamping down of frontline hostilities (Kommersant, February 17). The Minsk accords were drawn up to stop a local conflict from developing into a regional war, and this worked relatively well for a time; but trying to use this agreement as a roadmap to permanent peace in Donbas has proven futile.
Kyiv wishes to snuff out the Donbas “rebellion” and push the Russian and proxy occupying forces out with Western help, hoping the same formula may someday work in Russian-seized Crimea. Separatist Donbas’s de facto authorities have said they want their territory to be annexed by oil-rich Russia. The Kremlin, in turn, wants a Moscow-friendly government installed in Kyiv that would effectively recognize the Crimean annexation and provide ironclad guarantees that Ukraine will forever stay out of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), the European Union or an alliance with the United States. At present, Moscow is not much interested in annexing any portion of Donbas. The Minsk accords do not provide a formula or roadmap to somehow reconcile such diverse objectives.
In February 2021, President Volodymyr Zelenskyy took off the air three pro-Russian television channels connected to the pro-Russian Opposition Platform–For Life party, which won 43 seats in the Verkhovna Rada in the 2019 Ukrainian parliamentary election. Kyiv also imposed sanctions on the leader of the pro-Russian opposition, Viktor Medvedchuk, who was accused of “financing terrorists”—paying the Donbas separatists money (see EDM, February 24). Medvedchuk (66) is a Ukrainian oligarch and a personal friend of Putin’s. He fervently wants to see Ukraine stay clear of NATO, the US and the EU, while keeping close ties with “brotherly Russia” (Interfax, February 19).
The Russian political and military ruling elite strongly believes the US and its allies are waging a hybrid war against Russia and its interests, in part by promoting opposition leader Alexei Navalny (see EDM, February 4). They see actions like the removal of pro-Russian TV channels in Ukraine; sanctions against Medvedchuk, his wife and business interests; and possible criminal charges against the Kremlin-friendly oligarch as moves by the West to take over Ukraine and snuff out any vestiges of Russian influence. A casus belli in short.
The pro-Kremlin media in Moscow accuses the Ukrainian military of massing forces and preparing a decisive offensive to defeat the separatists and reclaim Donbas. To prevent this from happening, the propaganda contends, Russia must intervene militarily (if need be, preemptively) and trounce the UAF (Komsomolskaya Pravda, March 4). On March 3, 2021, Donbas separatists were given orders to open fire preemptively to destroy UAF positions (Interfax, March 3). The Zelenskyy administration announced it was putting forward a revised political settlement plan for Donbas that had been agreed with France and Germany. But the Kremlin replied it does not understand what the Ukrainians are talking about. Army General (ret.) Vladimir Boldyrev, a former commander of the Russian Ground Forces, told journalists, “If the Ukrainians attack, we may stop pretending and openly intervene” (Ura.news, March 10).
Ukrainian officials are attempting to counter the onslaught of belligerency in the Moscow media by announcing Ukraine is ready to meet an enemy attack even if it takes the form of a massive invasion. According to interior ministry advisor Valery Potseluyko, “We [the Ukrainian government] understood there would be a serious response from Moscow to our moves against pro-Russian TV channels and Medvedchuk; but the time to begin a military offensive is wrong—the fields must first dry up” (Novyny.24tv.ua, March 7). Indeed, the snow is just begging to melt on the East European (Sarmatic) Plain. It is currently Rasputitsa or mud season, which is incredibly problematic for offensive maneuver warfare. Maybe six to eight weeks remain before belligerent rhetoric and sporadic bombardments in Donbas might truly transform into something much more ominous.
Russia Escalates Its Proxy War in Eastern Ukraine - Jamestown
Doomer Doug
TB Fanatic
No, Russia takes the view, the correct view that Gorbachev and Reagan had an "understanding" that NATO would NOT MOVE FARTHER EAST WHEN THE WARSAW PACT WAS VOIDED. And guess what, gang. The globalists in charge of NATO have moved from the Warsaw borders of East Germany, Czecholsovakia right up to the DIRECT BORDER WITH RUSSIA; The Baltic Republics, Poland, the Ukraine, etc etc The NATO globalists even put an OFFENSIVE AEGIS missile base in Romania, which is a direct threat to Russian ICBM launches, along with overthrowing the governments of both Georgia and the Ukraine. Georgia was murdering Ossetians before Russia moved in,
Russia and Putin have shown remarkable restraint in dealing with the globalist NATO military offense to directly threaten Russian borders.
Yep, Putin is going to go hot on this, since it must all be viewed in the context of all the globalist NOTO war mongering since the 1980 to current time frame.
It is ALL about NATO moving east to directly deploy combat troops on Russia's border. And that is why Russia will eventually crush us in a MASSIVE FIRST STRIKE when they have had enough.
Russia and Putin have shown remarkable restraint in dealing with the globalist NATO military offense to directly threaten Russian borders.
Yep, Putin is going to go hot on this, since it must all be viewed in the context of all the globalist NOTO war mongering since the 1980 to current time frame.
It is ALL about NATO moving east to directly deploy combat troops on Russia's border. And that is why Russia will eventually crush us in a MASSIVE FIRST STRIKE when they have had enough.
Not our circus, not our monkeys. Let Russia handle it (they will anyway). They will also handle us if we get in the way.
And Bidden has been paid to get in the way. American treasure will be wasted and American blood will be shed if Bidden drags us into this.
And Bidden has been paid to get in the way. American treasure will be wasted and American blood will be shed if Bidden drags us into this.
Zagdid
Veteran Member
danielboon
TB Fanatic
Turkey is also sticking its nose where it doesn't belong
View: https://mobile.twitter.com/eha_news/status/1370636345786433537
mistaken1
Has No Life - Lives on TB
The western globalists are using the ukranian nazis to goad the Russians into acting so they can pretend the moral high ground and move US troops (and anti missile systems) to the very border of Russia. Same basic playbook as the 'armed insurrection' and the permanent military presence put in place in DC.
northern watch
TB Fanatic
Looks like late model BTR armored personnel carriers. Good cross country performance, 60 mph road speed and is fully amphibious without preparation.
I wargame this stuff. Description below comes from the "Combat Mission - Black Sea" manual.
------------
BTR-82A
This is the same vehicle as the BTR-82, but with the much more capable 2A72 30 mm gun
replacing the 14.5 mm KPVT heavy machine gun. The gun is dual-fed with HE-FRAG and
APDS-T rounds, with a maximum range of 2,000 m during the day. Additionally, a programmable fuse system allows the vehicle to airburst the 30 mm HE-FRAG shells just above targets, diminishing the value of cover such as walls.
View: https://twitter.com/Natsecjeff/status/1370565525567197188
I wargame this stuff. Description below comes from the "Combat Mission - Black Sea" manual.
------------
BTR-82A
This is the same vehicle as the BTR-82, but with the much more capable 2A72 30 mm gun
replacing the 14.5 mm KPVT heavy machine gun. The gun is dual-fed with HE-FRAG and
APDS-T rounds, with a maximum range of 2,000 m during the day. Additionally, a programmable fuse system allows the vehicle to airburst the 30 mm HE-FRAG shells just above targets, diminishing the value of cover such as walls.
View: https://twitter.com/Natsecjeff/status/1370565525567197188
Last edited:
The PTB must certainly be full of themselves after stealing the US election, and essentially taking over the US govt.
With a senile sock puppet installed as President, both sides of Congress in control, a compliant media, corrupted FBI and DOJ, and a military being converted to a freak show, the hubris must be overwhelming.
Judging from the legislation already introduced, it looks to me like they feel completely emboldened, at least domestically, to impose their draconian will with no regard to consequence.
Drunk with power.
If this attitude carries fully into foreign relations, and it appears to be so with the restart of the Ukraine playbook, things will likely get ugly.
Where we plebes seem helpless to resist, Russia is not.
Seems like the Good Book referenced some relationship between pride and the fall.
God help us.
With a senile sock puppet installed as President, both sides of Congress in control, a compliant media, corrupted FBI and DOJ, and a military being converted to a freak show, the hubris must be overwhelming.
Judging from the legislation already introduced, it looks to me like they feel completely emboldened, at least domestically, to impose their draconian will with no regard to consequence.
Drunk with power.
If this attitude carries fully into foreign relations, and it appears to be so with the restart of the Ukraine playbook, things will likely get ugly.
Where we plebes seem helpless to resist, Russia is not.
Seems like the Good Book referenced some relationship between pride and the fall.
God help us.
BUBBAHOTEPT
Veteran Member
Smells of War..... Why of course, the old Deep State Toadies are back in the driver's seat with Trump gone. Here we go again... 
( just like they testified in Fake Impeachment #1)
( just like they testified in Fake Impeachment #1)
northern watch
TB Fanatic
northern watch
TB Fanatic
Is not that the truth
danielboon
TB Fanatic
Beware of the of ides march
Walrus Whisperer
Hope in chains...
Wars and rumours of wars.
Sounds about right for this time.
Sounds about right for this time.
Lurker
14
danielboon
TB Fanatic
Not yet I will post if anything really happens
