CORONA They opened up the barn door yesterday, damn!

ShadowMan

Crusty ol' Codger
Yep, they opened up the barn door this weekend and all the knuckleheads and animals were out and about running around like chickens with their heads cut off. It was absolute pandemonium up here on our mountain. Ran into our little village market yesterday and all the Flatlanders were running around WITHOUT masks, no social distancing, nothing; adults, teenagers, and kids. Folks were acting like no pandemic had ever existed at all. Talk about throwing caution to the wind. All that time in quarantine, all the safety measures for the last several months just thrown out the window. I hope it was worth it.

If this crud doesn't flare up like a wild lands forest fire after a ten year drought, it will be a friggen miracle!
 

The Mountain

Here since the beginning
_______________
Masks don't do much if anything, especially the cutesy cloth masks everyone's been making. Even N95 masks aren't that much protection, and should in any case be reserved for healthcare providers.

And "Social Distancing" was the invention of some high-schooler during the Swine Flu outbreak, and the epidemiological community at the time roundly criticized it as something that would actually make things worse.
 

mzkitty

I give up.
So far, we've survived trips to the store and CVS and Tarjay. Some people wear masks here, others don't. I don't. So far so good, but we're zealous about the post-trip protocols as stated by Meemur when you get home. No crowds, although even Tarjay isn't crowded. It may be by now though - we went a couple of weeks ago.
 

Dobbin

Faithful Steed
Meh. If you're concerned - wear a mask. In fact wear two. One to protect you and one to protect your fellows/sisters.

Or stay home and buy online. Then you'll only be exposed to those at the shipping center/trucks/deliverymen who insist on licking your packages.

Owner says when he takes change at the store he says he ALWAYS asks if the money has been sterilized.

He says the store clerks always say "its good" - but does that mean non-contagious?

Dobbin
 

Troke

TB Fanatic
And "Social Distancing" was the invention of some high-schooler during the Swine Flu outbreak, and the epidemiological community at the time roundly criticized it as something that would actually make things worse.

Sounds good, except of course, for the Italian problem. No way were they into social distance, they were right up front with hugs and kisses, an Italian custom.

And they died like flies (Metaphor there) Of course, close connecting would have allowed the building of a herd immunity. Much good though if all the candidates it was supposed to protect (old and/or infirm) are dead.
 

The Snack Artist

Veteran Member
And "Social Distancing" was the invention of some high-schooler during the Swine Flu outbreak, and the epidemiological community at the time roundly criticized it as something that would actually make things worse.

Sounds good, except of course, for the Italian problem. No way were they into social distance, they were right up front with hugs and kisses, an Italian custom.

And they died like flies (Metaphor there) Of course, close connecting would have allowed the building of a herd immunity. Much good though if all the candidates it was supposed to protect (old and/or infirm) are dead.
How about taking good care of yourself and not be morbidly obese or have non reversible insulin damage from your lifestyle? Read this.


"The Rome-based institute has examined medical records of about 18% of the country’s coronavirus fatalities, finding that just three victims, or 0.8% of the total, had no previous pathology. Almost half of the victims suffered from at least three prior illnesses and about a fourth had either one or two previous conditions.

More than 75% had high blood pressure, about 35% had diabetes and a third suffered from heart disease."

From here; 99% of Those Who Died From Virus Had Other Illness, Italy Says


99% of Those Who Died From Virus Had Other Illness, Italy Says
By
Tommaso Ebhardt
,
Chiara Remondini
, and
Marco Bertacche
March 18, 2020, 7:56 AM CDT

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More than 99% of Italy’s coronavirus fatalities were people who suffered from previous medical conditions, according to a study by the country’s national health authority.


After deaths from the virus reached more than 2,500, with a 150% increase in the past week, health authorities have been combing through data to provide clues to help combat the spread of the disease.


Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte’s government is evaluating whether to extend a nationwide lockdown beyond the beginning of April, daily La Stampa reported Wednesday. Italy has more than 31,500 confirmed cases of the illness.



Italy Coronavirus Deaths
By prior illnesses (%)

Source: ISS Italy National Health Institute, March 17 sample

The new study could provide insight into why Italy’s death rate, at about 8% of total infected people, is higher than in other countries.
The Rome-based institute has examined medical records of about 18% of the country’s coronavirus fatalities, finding that just three victims, or 0.8% of the total, had no previous pathology. Almost half of the victims suffered from at least three prior illnesses and about a fourth had either one or two previous conditions.
More than 75% had high blood pressure, about 35% had diabetes and a third suffered from heart disease.
Threat to the Elderly
The median age of the infected is 63 but most of those who die are older


Source: ISS Italy National Health institute, March 17 sample
The average age of those who’ve died from the virus in Italy is 79.5. As of March 17, 17 people under 50 had died from the disease. All of Italy’s victims under 40 have been males with serious existing medical conditions.
While data released Tuesday point to a slowdown in the increase of cases, with a 12.6% rise, a separate study shows Italy could be underestimating the real number of cases by testing only patients presenting symptoms.
According to the GIMBE Foundation, about 100,000 Italians have contracted the virus, daily Il Sole 24 Ore reported. That would bring back the country’s death rate closer to the global average of about 2%.
Mapping the Covid-19 Outbreak Globally
 

TheSearcher

Are you sure about that?
Most people won't understand till they are someone close to them is fighting for air.
A lot of us have seen those we love fight to breathe, and I sympathize with the angst you must have felt, or are still feeling. I've personally watched four loved ones die to that condition, though the cause was not Covid-19. Most people who get Covid-19 will NOT die, many won't even know. Some will, and will die from that struggle to breathe, some will suffer with it and recover to some capacity.

Many more people will die or suffer while struggling to breathe from OTHER ailments that Covid-19. The world will not and should not stop for them, and damn sure should not have for Covid-19.
 

Dobbin

Faithful Steed
Most people won't understand till they are someone close to them is fighting for air.
Likely even then they won't.

Contagion happens - you usually can't tell from where. It may be from someone close - or it may be from licked packages.

Most cases go un-assigned to source - however they try. Best government can do is mop up "hot spots." Most spots are not hot.

In one's favor is the ridiculously small percentage of those who succumb.

And for those "at risk" - the benefit of self protection far outweighs the cost personally in lost time, lost health, lost life that may result from contagion.

Hence the use of another kind of mask among my kind. More for nuisance eye infection.



Dobbin
 

Elza

Veteran Member
How about taking good care of yourself and not be morbidly obese or have non reversible insulin damage from your lifestyle? Read this.


"The Rome-based institute has examined medical records of about 18% of the country’s coronavirus fatalities, finding that just three victims, or 0.8% of the total, had no previous pathology. Almost half of the victims suffered from at least three prior illnesses and about a fourth had either one or two previous conditions.

More than 75% had high blood pressure, about 35% had diabetes and a third suffered from heart disease."

From here; 99% of Those Who Died From Virus Had Other Illness, Italy Says


99% of Those Who Died From Virus Had Other Illness, Italy Says
By
Tommaso Ebhardt
,
Chiara Remondini
, and
Marco Bertacche
March 18, 2020, 7:56 AM CDT

Pause
Unmute

Current Time 1:51
/
Duration 2:40
Loaded: 0%


Progress: 0%

ShareFullscreen

Italians Rally in Coronavirus Lockdown
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Italians Rally in Coronavirus Lockdown
LISTEN TO ARTICLE
1:52
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We’re tracking the latest on the coronavirus outbreak and the global response. Sign up here for our daily newsletter on what you need to know.


More than 99% of Italy’s coronavirus fatalities were people who suffered from previous medical conditions, according to a study by the country’s national health authority.


After deaths from the virus reached more than 2,500, with a 150% increase in the past week, health authorities have been combing through data to provide clues to help combat the spread of the disease.


Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte’s government is evaluating whether to extend a nationwide lockdown beyond the beginning of April, daily La Stampa reported Wednesday. Italy has more than 31,500 confirmed cases of the illness.



Italy Coronavirus Deaths
By prior illnesses (%)

Source: ISS Italy National Health Institute, March 17 sample

The new study could provide insight into why Italy’s death rate, at about 8% of total infected people, is higher than in other countries.
The Rome-based institute has examined medical records of about 18% of the country’s coronavirus fatalities, finding that just three victims, or 0.8% of the total, had no previous pathology. Almost half of the victims suffered from at least three prior illnesses and about a fourth had either one or two previous conditions.
More than 75% had high blood pressure, about 35% had diabetes and a third suffered from heart disease.
Threat to the Elderly
The median age of the infected is 63 but most of those who die are older


Source: ISS Italy National Health institute, March 17 sample
The average age of those who’ve died from the virus in Italy is 79.5. As of March 17, 17 people under 50 had died from the disease. All of Italy’s victims under 40 have been males with serious existing medical conditions.
While data released Tuesday point to a slowdown in the increase of cases, with a 12.6% rise, a separate study shows Italy could be underestimating the real number of cases by testing only patients presenting symptoms.
According to the GIMBE Foundation, about 100,000 Italians have contracted the virus, daily Il Sole 24 Ore reported. That would bring back the country’s death rate closer to the global average of about 2%.
Mapping the Covid-19 Outbreak Globally
This is just what my doc said on my last visit. Actual virus deaths are very, very few.

If I get it and die it will be listed as a covid-19 death. What would actually kill me is my compromised pulmonary function.
 

jba48

Veteran Member
This is just what my doc said on my last visit. Actual virus deaths are very, very few.

If I get it and die it will be listed as a covid-19 death. What would actually kill me is my compromised pulmonary function.
But therein lies the issue. Are you going to die otherwise? I assume you aren't close to death (at least I pray you aren't.) But if you get covid-19 and die, wouldn't it be right to say you died from covid-19?

Now, I know there are cases where someone just dies and they happen to have asymptomatic covid-19, and they are still counted as covid-19 deaths. That's not right. But if someone has any comorbidities who isn't literally walking around near death, but then gets covid-19 and because of the comorbidities dies, that would be a covid-19 death, at least in my opinion.

I have high blood pressure. I've had it since my mid 20s. It's a genetic thing more than anything. But if I get covid-19 and die, I hope no one says I died from hypertension. I didn't. I would have died from covid-19.
 

The Mountain

Here since the beginning
_______________
And "Social Distancing" was the invention of some high-schooler during the Swine Flu outbreak, and the epidemiological community at the time roundly criticized it as something that would actually make things worse.

Sounds good, except of course, for the Italian problem. No way were they into social distance, they were right up front with hugs and kisses, an Italian custom.

And they died like flies (Metaphor there) Of course, close connecting would have allowed the building of a herd immunity. Much good though if all the candidates it was supposed to protect (old and/or infirm) are dead.
The VAST majority of deaths in Italy were the very elderly. It had nothing to do with whether or not they stayed 6 feet apart and everything to do with compromised immune systems and comorbidity. The reason for the high numbers there is that there is/was a high percentage of the population that was in the at-risk age group.
 

ShadowMan

Crusty ol' Codger
Oh I do wear a mask....an N99, with a five layer charcoal based replaceable filter, every time I go out, and I go out as little as possible. If this crud super flares up....I can go to FULL MOPP LEVEL 4 which I trained in for over twenty years during the cold war in the military. I absolutely hate wearing that full kit, but will if I have to.

I'd much rather have the inconvenience of wearing PPE than deal with catching this bug. An ounce of precaution is worth many tons of cure.
 

David Nettleton

Veteran Member
Yep, they opened up the barn door this weekend and all the knuckleheads and animals were out and about running around like chickens with their heads cut off. It was absolute pandemonium up here on our mountain. Ran into our little village market yesterday and all the Flatlanders were running around WITHOUT masks, no social distancing, nothing; adults, teenagers, and kids. Folks were acting like no pandemic had ever existed at all. Talk about throwing caution to the wind. All that time in quarantine, all the safety measures for the last several months just thrown out the window. I hope it was worth it.

If this crud doesn't flare up like a wild lands forest fire after a ten year drought, it will be a friggen miracle!
Later today go to Youtube and listen to Rush's first podcast of today's show. (about 25 minutes) You, like many, are falling right into "their" plans.
 

TheSearcher

Are you sure about that?
But therein lies the issue. Are you going to die otherwise? I assume you aren't close to death (at least I pray you aren't.) But if you get covid-19 and die, wouldn't it be right to say you died from covid-19?

Now, I know there are cases where someone just dies and they happen to have asymptomatic covid-19, and they are still counted as covid-19 deaths. That's not right. But if someone has any comorbidities who isn't literally walking around near death, but then gets covid-19 and because of the comorbidities dies, that would be a covid-19 death, at least in my opinion.

I have high blood pressure. I've had it since my mid 20s. It's a genetic thing more than anything. But if I get covid-19 and die, I hope no one says I died from hypertension. I didn't. I would have died from covid-19.
People who have already compromised function and reduced immune systems die from other, more common corona viruses and are not listed as "death by common cold", are they? I ask because I don't know.

The real point to my question is to point out that something eventually gets every one of us. Covid-19 is just the most up-to-date vector being discussed.
 

The Mountain

Here since the beginning
_______________
Oh I do wear a mask....an N99, with a five layer charcoal based replaceable filter, every time I go out, and I go out as little as possible. If this crud super flares up....I can go to FULL MOPP LEVEL 4 which I trained in for over twenty years during the cold war in the military. I absolutely hate wearing that full kit, but will if I have to.

I'd much rather have the inconvenience of wearing PPE than deal with catching this bug. An ounce of precaution is worth many tons of cure.
Do you get this wound up about the seasonal flu? Because as the real numbers come out, that's about how dangerous this virus is starting to look. The rate of illness is far lower than the MSM was screaming about, as is the death rate. It's looking more and more like just about everyone has already gotten the virus, and just didn't notice. It's mostly people who already have significant health complications who are having problems with this virus. There is a tiny fraction of the population that has no apparent preexisting health issue and still get sick from the virus, but that fraction is likewise getting smaller by the day as we discover just how widespread this thing turned out to be. At this point, the death toll for Wuhan virus absent any other condition is still less than an average flu season. Swine flu was worse, but there was no panic then.

And your MOPP-4 will do absolutely zero for you. This kind of thing is emblematic of the hysteria the media has been stirring up for months over what has turned out to be pretty tame.

I get that there's a contingent out there both Left and Right that desperately wants this to be TEOTWAWKI, for various reasons, but it's just not at that level.
 

BadMedicine

Would *I* Lie???
Most people won't understand till they are someone close to them is fighting for air.
And then the sciece will make sense that a virus cannot get around the edges of a mask? Are you confusing feelings/ emotions for facts and science? My parents are elderly and immunocompromised. SHould I tell them masks help and they'll be fine in public, or should they self-quarantine for their own health(if they chose the risk is great enough to warrant it) while allowing the economy to survive?

The masks don't work. Would your advice to be to use the mask
assume they work, despite evidence/ science telling otherwise, or would you chose to minimize contact with unknown folks? Again, mask or no mask, in public there is a risk.

So again... when someone near us is struggling for air... which part will we suddenly get?
 

forpetesake

Contributing Member
Do you get this wound up about the seasonal flu? Because as the real numbers come out, that's about how dangerous this virus is starting to look. The rate of illness is far lower than the MSM was screaming about, as is the death rate. It's looking more and more like just about everyone has already gotten the virus, and just didn't notice. It's mostly people who already have significant health complications who are having problems with this virus. There is a tiny fraction of the population that has no apparent preexisting health issue and still get sick from the virus, but that fraction is likewise getting smaller by the day as we discover just how widespread this thing turned out to be. At this point, the death toll for Wuhan virus absent any other condition is still less than an average flu season. Swine flu was worse, but there was no panic then.

And your MOPP-4 will do absolutely zero for you. This kind of thing is emblematic of the hysteria the media has been stirring up for months over what has turned out to be pretty tame.

I get that there's a contingent out there both Left and Right that desperately wants this to be TEOTWAWKI, for various reasons, but it's just not at that level.
The Mountain, THIS IS NOT LIKE THE FLU. The flu doesn't typically cause multiple organ failure, decreased lung and cognitive function, stroke, debilitating pain for months, and possible sterility. And these things are occurring in people with no co-morbidities. It's not just the death rate. And "the rate of illness" is much higher than the flu.
 

ambereyes

Veteran Member
My grandparents are in their 90's, no real health problems but they have chosen to stay away from the public. The have also set up their DNR's, they sat down with the family and told us how it would be. My parents are also considering setting up their DNR's even though they have both had the virus (recently tested) and recovered. The biggest concern was the probability of vents, they do not trust the hospitals not to vent them due to their age.
 

The Mountain

Here since the beginning
_______________
The Mountain, THIS IS NOT LIKE THE FLU. The flu doesn't typically cause multiple organ failure, decreased lung and cognitive function, stroke, debilitating pain for months, and possible sterility. And these things are occurring in people with no co-morbidities. It's not just the death rate. And "the rate of illness" is much higher than the flu.
This is EXACTLY LIKE THE FLU *AS FAR AS HOW PREVALENT IT IS*. Reading comprehension is critical. Nowhere did I say it did the same things as the influenza virus.

And the Wuhan virus doesn't "typically" cause all those things either. The most prevalent is the fibrous lung tissue, and even that is astonishingly rare. I should also mention that the seasonal flu *does* cause organ failure, as well as heart attacks, an inflamed heart, and encephalitis. The rate of infection is very high, yes; in fact from what I understand based on testing that's been done on controlled populations, the infection rate is probably higher than 90%. And only a tiny fraction of that number actually develops any kind of symptoms, and a tiny fraction of *that* actually gets sick enough to require medical treatment.


You *really* need to read this article I posted last Friday, post #8 in particular:

 

ShadowMan

Crusty ol' Codger
Do you get this wound up about the seasonal flu?
Nope, but then I have survived a bad case of Hong Kong Flu. There's nothing like dry heaving for two weeks straight and ending up hospitalized as well. Plus I know how to prepare for it, how to deal with it, what to expect and none of those seasonal flu's is anything like this crap.
And your MOPP-4 will do absolutely zero for you. This kind of thing is emblematic of the hysteria the media has been stirring up for months over what has turned out to be pretty tame.
REALLY? How do you figure that? The MOPP system is designed to operate in full on WWIII warfare with Nuclear, Biological and Chemical environments.

And....I'm not panicked in the least, however I am very vigilant and cautious, and having actually spent time in real operational threat environments in parts of the world that have more diseases than "Carter has Liver Pills" and for some we have no prophylactics or treatments for. Sort of makes this much more real than just "another cold or flu".
 

Yogizorch

Veteran Member
Nope, but then I have survived a bad case of Hong Kong Flu. There's nothing like dry heaving for two weeks straight and ending up hospitalized as well. Plus I know how to prepare for it, how to deal with it, what to expect and none of those seasonal flu's is anything like this crap.

REALLY? How do you figure that? The MOPP system is designed to operate in full on WWIII warfare with Nuclear, Biological and Chemical environments.

And....I'm not panicked in the least, however I am very vigilant and cautious, and having actually spent time in real operational threat environments in parts of the world that have more diseases than "Carter has Liver Pills" and for some we have no prophylactics or treatments for. Sort of makes this much more real than just "another cold or flu".
And yet you were out there mingling with the crowd too.
 

Meemur

Voice on the Prairie
Nope. I was hanging out at home. I worked on the yard a lot of the day and grilled some burgers, but that is typically what I do Memorial Weekend. This is the start of "stupid season" in my area: people start drinking first thing and then haul their boats to the lake and drink some more. I've found the best thing to do is to stay out of their way. And I have nothing against those who are hanging out on their backyard deck, drinking. They aren't hauling a large boat around while impaired!
 

Hfcomms

EN66iq
This is the start of "stupid season" in my area: people start drinking first thing and then haul their boats to the lake and drink some more.
Sounds a lot like the U.P. People get north of the big bridge and all discretion goes right out the window. When we have all these people up here at their summer camps is when I start being concerned about forest fires as it can be as dry as a popcorn fart and they will still have a big campfire in the woods and think nothing about it.
 

hiwall

Veteran Member
There was a gun show near me over the weekend that I thought I would go to but I forgot all about it.
 

coloradohermit

Veteran Member
Our small-ish mountain town was overrun with traffic and out of towners. My concern wasn't about the virus, it was about the idiots starting forest fires while out camping. There's a total burn ban in the county, the next county and the surrounding national forest, but folks were still(reportedly) having campfires. Thankfully we had snow Sun night into Monday.

I've only marginally followed the guidelines. I wear a mask in places that require it and don't wear one other places. I see a few friends at their place or mine, without social distancing. I avoid crowds, but don't hesitate to go to normal places like the grocery store. What I do or don't do depends on what I think, not on some fear.
 

Meemur

Voice on the Prairie
Sounds a lot like the U.P.
I'm from MI. The attitudes towards drinking and recreation are very similar, and I would've been worried about fires in the woods, too, but it's been raining. There was a big boat fire yesterday at the marina. The first thing the newscaster said was that alcohol was not involved. Ha!
 

Faroe

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Shug. Sorry your area got inundated.
Things will calm down after people get over their cabin fever.
Getting out and about in the sunshine and fresh air probably did wonders for their health.
...might have actually saved a few from getting sick; but we aren't counting those, are we?
After all, THAT would be baseless speculation! ;)
 

fish hook

Veteran Member
I wish all of them well.If we don't establish herd immunity,it may be just as good to thin the herd.Would make social distancing easier.
 

Satanta

Stone Cold Crazy
_______________
I do not like 'Social Distancing'. Six feet is too close anytime so stay the hell away from me a good 30 feet or better yet leave and let me get my business done-you can sit in your cars untiil I come out. Unless you are Smokin' Cute-no Social Distancing necessary.

I always wonder about people who bitch about Masks.

First, if they do not good why would Surgeons wear them?

If someone's Snot Globule is floating thru the air and you inhale it and get sick wearibg no mask that's Par for Course. If the same Globule of Mucus is floating thru the air and a single strand of thread happens to be in front of your nose holes and catches it and you do not get sick then how much better is a BUNCH of strands going to do Statwise?

Second, the same one bitching about Masks tend to worry about Facial Recognition Tech....seems Counter-intuitive.

Besides, admit it-there are people out there that SHOULD wear a Mask. I present you with Hillary Clinton as an example.

Heck, five months ago I could *never* walk into a store wearing a Mask or there'd be Cops and Shootouts and SWAT and all that fun.
 

Terriannie

Has No Life - Lives on TB
My 97-year-old MIL had COVID-19 and survived, thanks to prayer and Hydroxachloraquine/Zpack, so it is real and no, it is NOT a 100% death sentence! It's one thing to be careful but it's another to be petrified, especially now that "the curve" has flattened.

This sounds like my DD's tattling about her shopping trip to Sams. Sounding aghast and horrified, she just couldn't get over the people shopping!!! Then I reminded her that "she" was out shopping too and therefore "she" also contributed to the crowd as well. After that, silence.

We all know the regular (I call them flimsy) masks don't stop COVID but it does prevent spewing out and breathing in, spew. (Good cold preventer.) If you're doing true social distance you do not need a mask. Now, if you're truly worried, then STAY HOME unless you have the fully protected gear to feel reassured. Just common sense.

Regardless. Whether you wear a mask or not, the important thing is to wash your hands and KEEP THEM FROM YOUR FACE and train yourself that way until we can get some "herd immunity" going on!
 
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