CORONA They opened up the barn door yesterday, damn!

Ragnarok

On and On, South of Heaven
Masks don't do much if anything, especially the cutesy cloth masks everyone's been making. Even N95 masks aren't that much protection, and should in any case be reserved for healthcare providers.
If they offer little protection, why should I save them for healthcare workers?

Fact is, from the CDC's own webpage prior to the pandemic, N95 respirators are 95% effective at filtering out airborne particles...

That's more than a "little" effective.

1590527220783.png
 

Ragnarok

On and On, South of Heaven
Fear is a powerful motivator that overwhelms sound thinking. The MSM fake news is still doing everything they can to instill more and more fear.
Unfortunately it’s working on too many people.
Works both ways, of course...

I see too many people just blowing the whole thing off as a hoax. When/If a second, more deadly, wave hits all of those people will take zero precautions.

IMHO, hfcomms has the correct mindset... It all lies in good common sense.
 

Kathy in FL

Has No Life - Lives on TB
And "Social Distancing" was the invention of some high-schooler during the Swine Flu outbreak, and the epidemiological community at the time roundly criticized it as something that would actually make things worse.

Sounds good, except of course, for the Italian problem. No way were they into social distance, they were right up front with hugs and kisses, an Italian custom.

And they died like flies (Metaphor there) Of course, close connecting would have allowed the building of a herd immunity. Much good though if all the candidates it was supposed to protect (old and/or infirm) are dead.
Interesting study on the Italian issue from an actuary's point of view.

 

The Mountain

Here since the beginning
_______________
If they offer little protection, why should I save them for healthcare workers?

Fact is, from the CDC's own webpage prior to the pandemic, N95 respirators are 95% effective at filtering out airborne particles...

That's more than a "little" effective.

View attachment 198981
The N95 is only effective for up to 95% of airborne particles that measure 1.0 microns or larger. Viruses are quite a bit smaller than that. Also, there's that 5% that it doesn't filter. When you're talking about fine dust, that's one thing, but virus loads are a whole different ball of wax. So no, I'd say "a little effective" is the correct descriptor. They should be saved for healthcare workers because they are at least "a little" effective, unlike the surgical "masks" and repurposed scraps of t-shirt currently passing for "protection" among the public, which not only do essentially nothing to protect the wearer, but can actually make things worse by harboring crap you're breathing out so it constantly re-enters your respiratory system.
 

1911user

Veteran Member
The N95 is only effective for up to 95% of airborne particles that measure 1.0 microns or larger. Viruses are quite a bit smaller than that. Also, there's that 5% that it doesn't filter. When you're talking about fine dust, that's one thing, but virus loads are a whole different ball of wax. So no, I'd say "a little effective" is the correct descriptor. They should be saved for healthcare workers because they are at least "a little" effective, unlike the surgical "masks" and repurposed scraps of t-shirt currently passing for "protection" among the public, which not only do essentially nothing to protect the wearer, but can actually make things worse by harboring crap you're breathing out so it constantly re-enters your respiratory system.
The actual test requirement for N95 is blocking at least 95% of a certain amount of 0.3 micron test particles. It's a standardized test for OSHA certification. I read the test requirements and testing procedure. It's the same test for N95, N97, N99, and N100, they just are required to block more of the 0.3 micron particles. So reducing the viral load by a factor of 20 is just a little effective? We'll agree to disagree.

They work or the med pro's wouldn't be clamoring for them loudly and telling mere "civilians" they shouldn't have them.
 
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bethshaya

Veteran Member
Most people won't understand till they are someone close to them is fighting for air.
Amen, Sweet. I'm sorry if there was a loss. We've had our own fights in the family with this and I wouldnt wish this virus on anyone. It is horrendous!

Yeah, I get a chuckle out of all the posts on social media "aghast" about all the people out doing this, not doing that, then I point out to them too....YOU were one of them!
 

forpetesake

Contributing Member
The N95 is only effective for up to 95% of airborne particles that measure 1.0 microns or larger. Viruses are quite a bit smaller than that. Also, there's that 5% that it doesn't filter. When you're talking about fine dust, that's one thing, but virus loads are a whole different ball of wax. So no, I'd say "a little effective" is the correct descriptor. They should be saved for healthcare workers because they are at least "a little" effective, unlike the surgical "masks" and repurposed scraps of t-shirt currently passing for "protection" among the public, which not only do essentially nothing to protect the wearer, but can actually make things worse by harboring crap you're breathing out so it constantly re-enters your respiratory system.
The N95 mask filters 95% of .3 micron sized particles. The virus is .1 micron, but is not by itself. It is suspended in air on droplets, which are generally >5 microns. So the N95 mask works nicely.
 

Ragnarok

On and On, South of Heaven
Gross generalization on several fronts which is just as bad as the flip side of the coin.
Really?

Can you show me where people were locked up in the house and unable to leave?

How about rationing? Were people unable to buy anything and everything that they might desire save for toilet paper and certain cleaning supplies?

Roadblocks to stop people from going anywhere they wanted except in some extreme cases where residency had to be proven?

The only discomfort the American public faced was not being able to gather in crowds and after a month they started having mental breakdowns from the "stress"...

If that isn't a definition of "Weak" ( ie: pussy ), I don't know what is...
 

Ragnarok

On and On, South of Heaven
The actual test requirement for N95 is blocking at least 95% of a certain amount of 0.3 micron test particles. It's a standardized test for OSHA certification. I read the test requirements and testing procedure. It's the same test for N95, N97, N99, and N100, they just are required to block more of the 0.3 micron particles. So reducing the viral load by a factor of 20 is just a little effective? We'll agree to disagree.

They work or the med pro's wouldn't be clamoring for them loudly and telling mere "civilians" they shouldn't have them.
The N95 mask filters 95% of .3 micron sized particles. The virus is .1 micron, but is not by itself. It is suspended in air on droplets, which are generally >5 microns. So the N95 mask works nicely.
Thank you...
 

Ragnarok

On and On, South of Heaven
The N95 is only effective for up to 95% of airborne particles that measure 1.0 microns or larger. Viruses are quite a bit smaller than that. Also, there's that 5% that it doesn't filter. When you're talking about fine dust, that's one thing, but virus loads are a whole different ball of wax. So no, I'd say "a little effective" is the correct descriptor. They should be saved for healthcare workers because they are at least "a little" effective, unlike the surgical "masks" and repurposed scraps of t-shirt currently passing for "protection" among the public, which not only do essentially nothing to protect the wearer, but can actually make things worse by harboring crap you're breathing out so it constantly re-enters your respiratory system.
Well...

No problem with me wearing one, then...

...should in any case be reserved for healthcare providers.
No need to save them for healthcare workers like you said, right?

I should not have to give up the protection that I had enough foresight to provide for my family and I to give a "little protection" to the healthcare workers, who were in a better position than anyone to see what was coming, and didn't bother to do anything about it, should I?

Seems almost socialist to me... To take what isn't yours to redistribute it.
 

Hfcomms

EN66iq
The N95 mask filters 95% of .3 micron sized particles. The virus is .1 micron, but is not by itself. It is suspended in air on droplets, which are generally >5 microns. So the N95 mask works nicely.
In addition if you peruse the spec's for this class of mask you find out that their are multiple layers of the material and they have an electrostatic treatment to attract particulate matter and hold the particles to the fibers. The sizing of the mesh is only one aspect of the mask's performance. I wouldn't want to work a COVID ward wearing a N95....I think I would want a minimum of a PAPR or SCBA better yet but for overall use for those of us not in healthcare a N95, gloving and eye protection is a level of safety I'm comfortable with.
 

BassMan

Veteran Member
I may be reaching, but it almost seems like there is a slight bit of disagreement here...
...OK, where are my asbestos long-johns?
 

Kathy in FL

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Really?

Can you show me where people were locked up in the house and unable to leave?

How about rationing? Were people unable to buy anything and everything that they might desire save for toilet paper and certain cleaning supplies?

Roadblocks to stop people from going anywhere they wanted except in some extreme cases where residency had to be proven?

The only discomfort the American public faced was not being able to gather in crowds and after a month they started having mental breakdowns from the "stress"...

If that isn't a definition of "Weak" ( ie: pussy ), I don't know what is...
My son works in an acute care facility. Yeah, I can tell you there were a lot of people "locked up" and unable to be seen by friends or family. There are still people under those restrictions. There were cities and states where their "stay at home" orders came with a side order of being enforced with financial penalties for not following them.

Yes, I saw in several locations where items were being rationed beyond TP and paper towels. Aldis at one point, and still might in some locations, have been limiting the number of canned goods they allowed any customer to purchase. Publix and Winn Dixie were doing the same thing. Walmart did the same thing as did SAMs and Cosco and BJs.

USF closed off its campus where it used to be open to the public. They stationed cops at the entrances of the running paths as well. State and County parks were barred from use in many locations. That nutter in Michigan says people have to BBQ inside. Ridiculous.

I found it damn uncomfortable and insupportable to have my right to freely associate taken away. I wasn't allowed to go to a house of worship during a long time period. Got turned away at the downtown courthouse because the guard was trying to prevent me from filing an eviction contrary to Gov. De Santis' orders.

I can go on and on and other people can as well. People everywhere may not have been locked up in their own homes, but they've been locked out of places where that should not have happened. Or they are under orders to wear masks ... I won't stop in Alachua County (Gainesville) as I go up I75 for that very reason. I also won't shop in stores that require customers to wear masks.

If you feel like being pissy on the subject, go right on ahead. Just don't mistake your right to be pissy with being right.
 

Kathy in FL

Has No Life - Lives on TB
In addition if you peruse the spec's for this class of mask you find out that their are multiple layers of the material and they have an electrostatic treatment to attract particulate matter and hold the particles to the fibers. The sizing of the mesh is only one aspect of the mask's performance. I wouldn't want to work a COVID ward wearing a N95....I think I would want a minimum of a PAPR or SCBA better yet but for overall use for those of us not in healthcare a N95, gloving and eye protection is a level of safety I'm comfortable with.
At single use, worn properly. That's the problem. People aren't using them the way they are designed to be used per lab specs and tests.

I'm not building someone else's wall, that's their responsibility.

If people are that fragile that they can't afford to catch something that 99%+ people who get it survive, then they've got some problems and should stay home.
 

Ragnarok

On and On, South of Heaven
My son works in an acute care facility. Yeah, I can tell you there were a lot of people "locked up" and unable to be seen by friends or family. There are still people under those restrictions. There were cities and states where their "stay at home" orders came with a side order of being enforced with financial penalties for not following them.
Good Lord, Kathy...

My original post was two sentences and you still didn't read it?

People weren't "pent up" or locked up, at all...

We ( generally speaking ) are a nation of pussies who can't go any time at all without small inconveniences.
Acute care facilities hardly fall into that category, do they?

Yes, I saw in several locations where items were being rationed beyond TP and paper towels. Aldis at one point, and still might in some locations, have been limiting the number of canned goods they allowed any customer to purchase. Publix and Winn Dixie were doing the same thing. Walmart did the same thing as did SAMs and Cosco and BJs.
Purchasing limits is not the same as rationing.

Just because a few stores ( Aldi's in this case ) limited purchases did not stop you from going to another store to buy the same item, did it?

Rationing is done on a national/federal level.

USF closed off its campus where it used to be open to the public. They stationed cops at the entrances of the running paths as well. State and County parks were barred from use in many locations. That nutter in Michigan says people have to BBQ inside. Ridiculous.

I found it damn uncomfortable and insupportable to have my right to freely associate taken away. I wasn't allowed to go to a house of worship during a long time period. Got turned away at the downtown courthouse because the guard was trying to prevent me from filing an eviction contrary to Gov. De Santis' orders.

I can go on and on and other people can as well.
Exactly... Minor inconveniences. You found it "uncomfortable" and, collectively, people are losing their damned minds. Lord, help us when we face a real and prolonged crisis like the great depression or a world war.

If you feel like being pissy on the subject, go right on ahead. Just don't mistake your right to be pissy with being right.
I'm calling a spade a spade.
 

Kathy in FL

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Good Lord, Kathy...

My original post was two sentences and you still didn't read it?



Acute care facilities hardly fall into that category, do they?



Purchasing limits is not the same as rationing.

Just because a few stores ( Aldi's in this case ) limited purchases did not stop you from going to another store to buy the same item, did it?

Rationing is done on a national/federal level.



Exactly... Minor inconveniences. You found it "uncomfortable" and, collectively, people are losing their damned minds. Lord, help us when we face a real and prolonged crisis like the great depression or a world war.



I'm calling a spade a spade.
Of course I read it. We live in basically the same area and I respect you enough to pay attention to what you are saying instead of blowing you off.

Rationing occurs at any level where there is a restriction on purchases, not just at the national/federal level.

And SAMs and Wallyworld called what they were doing "rationing."

I don't know what it is like for other people but most medical offices are still rationing care by only seeing patients by teleconference, a few people on this forum have said they are having trouble getting their prescriptions filled, etc.

I call a spade a spade as well. I listed my discomfort ... not the fact that I was losing my crap over how things were which is the broad brush you were painting with. And we've always knowns that a prolonged crisis makes most people come unglued. You've been in Florida long enough to have witnessed it multiple times. That's not news. But "most" is not "all" people.

We ( generally speaking ) are a nation of pussies who can't go any time at all without small inconveniences.
What I may find a small inconvenience because I have deeper pockets or more resources to access is not saying that the exact same issues might not be a SNAFU, FUBAR, disaster, or EOTWATKI for others. I'm not going to categorize everyone with a crudity like that.

I will not wear a mask. My choice. My right. Nor am I going to go around and be held accountable by other people to build their wall for them to keep them safe from Covid19. If someone is that fragile then they need to stay home and stop having the expectation that other people can be used in some fashion.

I am not calling this a hoax, but the two-faced nonsense that some people are spouting about their right to take away other people's rights is getting to the point of ridiculous rationalization. You know what the numbers are here in Florida. At best the CFR is a thousandth of a percent for our state population. Not one percent, not a tenth or a hundredth of a percent ... a thousandth of a percent. Our state has still experienced significantly more seasonal flu deaths than covid19 deaths even with the number games the WHO and CDC play.

As for some hypothetical second wave, there's nothing but fear mongering. There's no proof of any kind of traditional "wave" behavior in this virus. The only "wave" will be from their suppression methods when everyone has to come out of the hermitically sealed bubbles people imagine they somehow have a right to exist in.

People need to have some courage. And some commonsense for their personal behavior ... don't go french kissing the guy with TB, wear a condom and be in a monogamous relationship to avoid STDs, if you have COPD give up the cigs, if you are a 14 year old white girl don't go snogging the muzzie, etc. I shouldn't have to wear a mask because other people have TB, or the flu, or whatever if that is my choice. You don't quarantine healthy people.
 

TammyinWI

1st Amendment Right and Pertinent
This whole shutdown thing is not on the level. I am of the firm belief that it is more of a killer than the "virus."

There were sanitoriums for those that had TB. The sensible thing to do is quarantine the sick, not the healthy to kill and crush their hope and spirit.

Should be a class action lawsuit against those that are in "power" imposing this!
 

forpetesake

Contributing Member
Of course I read it. We live in basically the same area and I respect you enough to pay attention to what you are saying instead of blowing you off.

Rationing occurs at any level where there is a restriction on purchases, not just at the national/federal level.

And SAMs and Wallyworld called what they were doing "rationing."

I don't know what it is like for other people but most medical offices are still rationing care by only seeing patients by teleconference, a few people on this forum have said they are having trouble getting their prescriptions filled, etc.

I call a spade a spade as well. I listed my discomfort ... not the fact that I was losing my crap over how things were which is the broad brush you were painting with. And we've always knowns that a prolonged crisis makes most people come unglued. You've been in Florida long enough to have witnessed it multiple times. That's not news. But "most" is not "all" people.



What I may find a small inconvenience because I have deeper pockets or more resources to access is not saying that the exact same issues might not be a SNAFU, FUBAR, disaster, or EOTWATKI for others. I'm not going to categorize everyone with a crudity like that.

I will not wear a mask. My choice. My right. Nor am I going to go around and be held accountable by other people to build their wall for them to keep them safe from Covid19. If someone is that fragile then they need to stay home and stop having the expectation that other people can be used in some fashion.

I am not calling this a hoax, but the two-faced nonsense that some people are spouting about their right to take away other people's rights is getting to the point of ridiculous rationalization. You know what the numbers are here in Florida. At best the CFR is a thousandth of a percent for our state population. Not one percent, not a tenth or a hundredth of a percent ... a thousandth of a percent. Our state has still experienced significantly more seasonal flu deaths than covid19 deaths even with the number games the WHO and CDC play.

As for some hypothetical second wave, there's nothing but fear mongering. There's no proof of any kind of traditional "wave" behavior in this virus. The only "wave" will be from their suppression methods when everyone has to come out of the hermitically sealed bubbles people imagine they somehow have a right to exist in.

People need to have some courage. And some commonsense for their personal behavior ... don't go french kissing the guy with TB, wear a condom and be in a monogamous relationship to avoid STDs, if you have COPD give up the cigs, if you are a 14 year old white girl don't go snogging the muzzie, etc. I shouldn't have to wear a mask because other people have TB, or the flu, or whatever if that is my choice. You don't quarantine healthy people.
"You don't quarantine healthy people". How do you know you are healthy? How do you know you're not infected and spreading it like Typhoid Mary? Maybe you don't care.
 

TheSearcher

Are you sure about that?
So because I'm not willing to risk close contact with others that may be COVID positive, and am practicing social distancing I am paranoid? I'm confused.
Yes. You are confused. You have this distopian view of the world wherein you must avoid undetectable "Typhoid Mary's" in your midst. You can't see them, but you know that they're near, right? When does that end for you? As long as someone keeps telling you that they are there? And how do you know that they're there? Maybe they'll never be gone, theoretically.

Maybe they'll go away, I'm sure somebody will tell you. They'll tell you too when the new "Covid Carlas" are back, of course, and what you should do.

Here's a hint: You've been surrounded by coronaviruses of many, many kinds your whole life. Covid-19 is declining, looking to become less of a novel threat, and just another of the storm we're bombarded by every day. At some point, it might be worth considering that living in fear may be spectacularly unhealthy in itself.
 

forpetesake

Contributing Member
Yes. You are confused. You have this distopian view of the world wherein you must avoid undetectable "Typhoid Mary's" in your midst. You can't see them, but you know that they're near, right? When does that end for you? As long as someone keeps telling you that they are there? And how do you know that they're there? Maybe they'll never be gone, theoretically.

Maybe they'll go away, I'm sure somebody will tell you. They'll tell you too when the new "Covid Carlas" are back, of course, and what you should do.

Here's a hint: You've been surrounded by coronaviruses of many, many kinds your whole life. Covid-19 is declining, looking to become less of a novel threat, and just another of the storm we're bombarded by every day. At some point, it might be worth considering that living in fear may be spectacularly unhealthy in itself.
I got nothin.
 

Kathy in FL

Has No Life - Lives on TB
"You don't quarantine healthy people". How do you know you are healthy? How do you know you're not infected and spreading it like Typhoid Mary? Maybe you don't care.
So you take away Constitutional rights just on the off chance that someone that is asymptomatic MIGHT infect you with a disease that in many states has proven less lethal than the seasonal flu? Yeezus. That's more than a few steps beyond being the thought police.
 

ShadowMan

Crusty ol' Codger
I just don't understand people absolutely refusing to protect themselves during this threat. Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it's harmless.

Americans are spoiled. Our predecessors have worked hard to provide safe water, safe food, safe work environment, etc., etc., etc. We've drained swaps, built sewer systems, treated our water, fought diseases tooth and nail that run rampant around the world to this very day.

I'm not paranoid or afraid, however I am very cautious, mainly because I've operated as a medical professional for extended periods of time (weeks & months) in areas all around the world that have types of Malaria that were totally resistant to all forms of prophylactics and treatment, and Dengue Fever, and Korean Hemorrhagic Fever, Sand Fly Fever, Leishmaniasis, Filariasis, Schistosomiasis, Tuberculosis, Polio, Yellow Fever, and just about every tropical infectious disease you can imagine and a lot you've never heard of.

PREVENTION is the best and number one goal of health safety.

It's not bravado or patriotic to refuse to protect yourself and others. It's actually kind of selfish and foolish, but then that's what freedom is all about. You're responsible for your own actions and the chances that you take so long as you don't threaten or risk others. That's the catch 22.
 
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TheSearcher

Are you sure about that?
I just don't understand people absolutely refusing to protect themselves during this threat. Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it's harmless.
And when the current statistics show that risk of harm is trending down, indeed it never even approached the feared level of harm, you have to modulate your responses so the responses themselves are not harmful. And thus far, those responses have indeed been harmful. Some of us are protecting ourselves from that harmful response.

I don't know that anyone is absolutely refusing anything in defending any aspects of their health.

Americans are spoiled.
Or as other communists said during the Cold War "Americans are Decadent".

...I've operated as a medical professional for extended periods of time (weeks & months) in areas all around the world that have types of Malaria that were totally resistant to all forms of prophylactics and treatment, and Dengue Fever, and Korean Hemorrhagic Fever, Sand Fly Fever, Leishmaniasis, Filariasis, Schistosomiasis, Tuberculosis, Polio, Yellow Fever, and just about every tropical infectious diseases you can imagine and a lot you've never heard of.
Yet, Covid-19 is none of those things. It was and still remains somewhat novel, but it's impact is orders of magnitude less than feared. Apparently, despite desperate handwaving from some, it even has a solid treatment that works. The world can go on. If something more needs to be done, we have the means now to do it.

PREVENTION is the best and number one goal of health safety.
You want to prevent something that sure looks like has already been prevented, at least on the macro scale. If YOU want to do something more to prevent personal impacts, then YOU do so. Quit treating us like morons because we refuse to be as spooked as you are.

It's not bravado or patriotic to refuse to protect yourself and others. It's actually kind of selfish and foolish, but then that's what freedom is all about. You're responsible for your own actions and the chances that you take so long as you don't threaten or risk others. That's the catch 22.
It's dishonest of you to say what we do or do not refuse to do, merely because you want us to do what YOU want to do. What you risk from me is really in your own mind, your set of expectations. You will not be allowed to project solutions on me because of the threat you think that I pose to you.
 

forpetesake

Contributing Member
So you take away Constitutional rights just on the off chance that someone that is asymptomatic MIGHT infect you with a disease that in many states has proven less lethal than the seasonal flu? Yeezus. That's more than a few steps beyond being the thought police.
It's more of a civic duty issue, but whatever Kathy. Stay well.
 

ShadowMan

Crusty ol' Codger
I don't want to see anyone sick or dead for any reason. I don't want to see our Civil Rights violated. I don't want to see a Democrap in the White House.

However, it is both prudent and intelligent to be overly cautious when you DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DEALING WITH!! Which even at this point we still don't fully know what the hell we're dealing with. I'm actually QUITE ECSTATIC that the WuFlu is not as deadly as we were originally led to believe. However, for the people that do catch it, and I happen to have a very good friend that is battling for his life with this virus right now and I can assure you this bug is no joke, WuFlu is not a joke.

What REALLY pisses me off all the political and UNscientific garbage going on with this. What REALLY REALLY PISSES ME OFF is that fact that we have "supposedly" expert scientists playing games with these deadly virus' and even worse MAKING THEM EVEN DEADLIER!! WTFO!! There are people like Dr. Fauci who is instrumental in this Covid-19 research being done in Wuhan, China and even helped them acquire a 3.7 million dollar grant to study and even ENHANCE this disease! Again....WTF?!? Oh and Fauci has already applied for patents for this virus and treatments for it. AGAIN...>WTF?

I wonder if we'll ever really know what happened, how it happened and who is responsible. Someone somewhere is making a mint off this disaster, you can bet on that. Find out who or whom profits and perhaps we can stop this kind of crap from happening again.
 

Ragnarok

On and On, South of Heaven
I just don't understand people absolutely refusing to protect themselves during this threat. Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it's harmless.

Full stop.

And I am in agreement.

This is a prep board and members calling other members paranoid and "thought police" for taking precautions is ridiculous and underscores my point of a societal break down.

I hear that this virus is not as deadly as this, that, and the other... That there is "herd immunity"... That there is no "second wave"... That you are immune once you catch it... That there are no reinfections...

How do you know ANY of that???

We have been dealing with this for what... less than 6 months? You do not know how deadly this virus will be because it is still an ongoing incident. You do not know anything about "herd immunity" because not enough people have caught it. You do not know ANYTHING in concrete terms... Period...

So, if I want to take precautions to protect myself and my family until I have concrete knowledge, screw you. I am not a Nazi, I am not "paranoid", I am not a media tool... I. Am. Cautious.

I do not force my views on anyone. I try my best to offer sources for any and all points I make and allow people to make their own decisions. I have been a member for 16 years and it pisses me off to be called names from other members who I thought had a modicum of respect because I have made a decision on how I deal with this virus.

I have spent a lifetime planning for worse case scenarios and praying for the best. I thought I was among like-minded folks but am realizing that is not the case, so much.
 
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Ragnarok

On and On, South of Heaven
I just don't understand people absolutely refusing to protect themselves during this threat. Just because you can't see something doesn't mean it's harmless.

Americans are spoiled. Our predecessors have worked hard to provide safe water, safe food, safe work environment, etc., etc., etc. We've drained swaps, built sewer systems, treated our water, fought diseases tooth and nail that run rampant around the world to this very day.

I'm not paranoid or afraid, however I am very cautious, mainly because I've operated as a medical professional for extended periods of time (weeks & months) in areas all around the world that have types of Malaria that were totally resistant to all forms of prophylactics and treatment, and Dengue Fever, and Korean Hemorrhagic Fever, Sand Fly Fever, Leishmaniasis, Filariasis, Schistosomiasis, Tuberculosis, Polio, Yellow Fever, and just about every tropical infectious disease you can imagine and a lot you've never heard of.

PREVENTION is the best and number one goal of health safety.

It's not bravado or patriotic to refuse to protect yourself and others. It's actually kind of selfish and foolish, but then that's what freedom is all about. You're responsible for your own actions and the chances that you take so long as you don't threaten or risk others. That's the catch 22.
:applaud:
 

Ragnarok

On and On, South of Heaven
Americans are spoiled.
Or as other communists said during the Cold War "Americans are Decadent".
Americans are spoiled.

Americans are decadent.

Now, we are communist for making an INCREDIBLY obvious observation?

Crap on a cracker, man...

I hope I am just misreading that statement...

It's dishonest of you to say what we do or do not refuse to do, merely because you want us to do what YOU want to do. What you risk from me is really in your own mind, your set of expectations. You will not be allowed to project solutions on me because of the threat you think that I pose to you.
I could give a flying f^ck what you do, but do not disparage me for what I do.

You project solutions on others as much as anyone else, my friend. And, I say that with all due respect as you are one of my favorite posters on this forum...

Emotions seem to be getting the best of many, IMHO.
 

TheSearcher

Are you sure about that?
Americans are spoiled.

Americans are decadent.

Now, we are communist for making an INCREDIBLY obvious observation?

Crap on a cracker, man...

I hope I am just misreading that statement...
People in this country expecting Constitutional measures does not make us spoiled or decadent. Propagandizing otherwise is not to go unchallenged, and calling people pussies about it is beneath you. Or it should be.

Some people are advocating communist controls due to this virus. Even you saw what was wrong with the lady being driven out of the supermarket for not wearing a mask, and said so. They were the Bolshies, she the Menshevik, or the Brownshirts against the Jew. Some of the commentary of late on this forum is approaching that level of shaming for not doing what some think should be done.

There is a high level of fear by a vocal few and it is leading to discussions that are becoming disturbingly fascistic. As I recently said, the twisting of other posters' words and intentions along those lines is causing me much more concern at this point.

Whatever this virus started out as, it has morphed from a possible major health threat into a dial that TPTB turns to ratchet us up or down. And it's setting us at each other's throats.
 
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TheSearcher

Are you sure about that?
Americans are spoiled.

Americans are decadent.

Now, we are communist for making an INCREDIBLY obvious observation?

Crap on a cracker, man...

I hope I am just misreading that statement...



I could give a flying f^ck what you do, but do not disparage me for what I do.

You project solutions on others as much as anyone else, my friend. And, I say that with all due respect as you are one of my favorite posters on this forum...

Emotions seem to be getting the best of many, IMHO.
Where did I disparage you? I've called you no names, I've not laughed at you, nor have I told you to do something you don't want to do. I've disagreed with you and tried to discuss why I disagree.

ETA: I haven't even told you to leave me alone, I've just said I'm not going to follow your advice.
 
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