ALERT RUSSIA INVADES UKRAINE - Consolidated Thread

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
Part of the problem the Biden Admin and those behind the curtain pulling their strings have is their past performances don't bolster the effective deterrent presumption that MAD relied upon to work. Putin having decided to go "kinetic" before really using all the other means at his disposal now has nowhere to go other the frying pan or the fire. The cumulative behavior of "the West" starting with cashing in and squandering the "peace dividend" helped set that stage.

If we get through this in the next six months with a "cease fire" and a "frozen conflict" as messed up as that is we all will be lucky. IMHO the odds of a "color revolution" or a palace coup in Russia are just as likely as analogous events happening in DC and if the winter is as cold as many fear within the EU as well.

That being said all of the arms reduction treaties that have been in place will very likely be null and void by circumstances. Adding the number of new players in that mix makes it all the more dangerous a time for all.
 

db cooper

Resident Secret Squirrel
Who is to say when Russian adventurism will ever stop? Who ever said appeasement could work against a dictator?

Russia already took over Georgia, Crimea, and Donbass.

Russia's illegal and immoral invasion of the sovereign nation Ukraine has resulted in the near collapse of the Russian conventional armed forces.

Maybe Putin should be the one to know when to stop?
You have an interesting comment. Let's assume the west backs down to the nuclear threat, and just let's the Ukraine go, I mean gee, what else can we do? I think the Brits did the same thing with Hitler in WWII, just thinking he'd be pleased with just a couple countries. Well that did not turn out too well.

The same could happen here. If Putin sees weakness, he just might take a lesson from Hitler and see how far he can go. But Putin cannot raise an army like Hitler did. If he goes beyond the Ukraine, he'd not have a large enough army to occupy anything else and maintain the Russian motherland too. By the way, the US cannot raise an army either considering the woke leftism and Afghanistan shame.
 

Doc1

Has No Life - Lives on TB
You have an interesting comment. Let's assume the west backs down to the nuclear threat, and just let's the Ukraine go, I mean gee, what else can we do? I think the Brits did the same thing with Hitler in WWII, just thinking he'd be pleased with just a couple countries. Well that did not turn out too well.

The same could happen here. If Putin sees weakness, he just might take a lesson from Hitler and see how far he can go. But Putin cannot raise an army like Hitler did. If he goes beyond the Ukraine, he'd not have a large enough army to occupy anything else and maintain the Russian motherland too. By the way, the US cannot raise an army either considering the woke leftism and Afghanistan shame.

Putin may just as easily take the lesson away from Hitler's expansion that one shouldn't bite off more than they can chew.

Best
Doc
 

onetimer

Veteran Member
I have no idea of what the reality is behind this report. Part of the trouble with this (and most other wars) is that information is selectively leaked or fabricated as part of the propaganda efforts on both sides. Understand that I'm not accusing Onetimer of fabricating anything.

If the report is true, it almost certainly has to be taken with a large grain of salt. No military - except the most desperate - is going to draft men in their fifties and sixties for front line combat service. If the report is at all true, I suspect that former NCOs might well be drafted for admin and training duties. That could free younger men for combat service.

Towards the very end of WWII, the desperate German forces were indeed drafting guys in their fifties and sixties - as well as kids under 16 - for combat service in the Volksturm. The Volksturm was a sort of last ditch home guard. In the event, recruiting these troops was found to be hardly worth the effort and their combat record was generally dismal.

Long before things reached that critical point, the Wehrmacht was recruiting older and disabled soldiers to perform the sort of training and admin functions I mentioned earlier.

I've seen absolutely no indication that the Russian forces are in any sort of desperate condition.

Best
Doc
Absolutely take these 2nd hand + reports with a huge amount of skepticism. Totally agree with your assessment.

I've seen videos of men saying goodbye to loved ones as they load up onto the busses and a few where definitely older than the rest, late 40'searly 50's. Maybe they held higher ranks and/or have more experience, who knows.

This quote comes to mind.
Rumsfeld — 'You go to war with the army you have, not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time.'
 

TheChrome

Contributing Member
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Ragnarok

On and On, South of Heaven
Part of the problem the Biden Admin and those behind the curtain pulling their strings have is their past performances don't bolster the effective deterrent presumption that MAD relied upon to work. Putin having decided to go "kinetic" before really using all the other means at his disposal now has nowhere to go other the frying pan or the fire. The cumulative behavior of "the West" starting with cashing in and squandering the "peace dividend" helped set that stage.

Zelensky is the one calling for preemptive nuclear strikes.

I don't think people realize how serious this is getting...

17:44 Tucker Carlson: This is insane
Fox News host Tucker Carlson weighs in on the Russia-Ukraine conflict on 'Tucker Carlson Tonight.'
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MJDvr-1Z-A
 

Ragnarok

On and On, South of Heaven
(Unconfirmed) According to this article, Putin is personally giving military orders to his generals. If true, this is common behavior of narcissistic dictators. Hitler did the same thing. In strange irony, it was Hitler going against his generals that gave Russia victory. Without fail that sort of situation never works.

Putin is personally giving orders to his generals on the battlefield as dysfunction grows, according to US intel

"US Intel"...

These days that is nothing more than an oxymoron.
 

Ragnarok

On and On, South of Heaven

Ankit Panda
@nktpnd


Military Doctrine of the Russian Federation (2014, approved by Putin): https://thailand.mid.ru/en/military-doctrine-of-the-russian-federation
Basic Principles of State Policy of the Russian Federation on Nuclear Deterrence (2020, approved by Putin): https://archive.mid.ru/en/web/guest/foreign_policy/international_safety/disarmament/-/asset_publisher/rp0fiUBmANaH/content/id/4152094 Sept. 21, 2022 remarks by Putin (below).

View attachment 365740


The highlighted part is designed to catch the eye and you don't read the context.

Read the context.

"I am referring not only to the western encouraged shelling of the Zaporozhye Nuclear Power Plant, which poses a threat of nuclear disaster, but also to the statements made by some high ranking representatives of the leading NATO countries on the possibility and admissibility of using weapons of mass destruction - nuclear weapons - against Russia...

... In the event of a threat to the territorial integrity of our country and to defend Russia and our people, we will certainly make use of all weapon systems available to us. This is not a bluff
."


Putin is only reiterating a statement he has made from the beginning.

That if NATO uses nukes against Russia, Russia will retaliate in kind.

Would we do any different in his position?
 

jward

passin' thru
“The United States for several months has been sending private communications to Moscow warning Russia’s leadership of the grave consequences that would follow the use of a nuclear weapon, according to U.S. officials”

What are these grave consequences?
Well, as I intimated, the answer lays beyond a paywall- I luv yall, but not enough to actually spend a buck for a subscription, especially not just to post the answer, only to have it ignored anyway because I'm not an "XY" -
or buried under the 1001th repost of a non-salient point. : )

Lots of chatter suggested we'd take out the baltic fleet :: shrug ::

..all I've seen that supposedly leads back to the actual article is this:
1663907845862.png
 

jward

passin' thru
(Unconfirmed) According to this article, Putin is personally giving military orders to his generals. If true, this is common behavior of narcissistic dictators. Hitler did the same thing. In strange irony, it was Hitler going against his generals that gave Russia victory. Without fail that sort of situation never works.

Putin is personally giving orders to his generals on the battlefield as dysfunction grows, according to US intel
That rumour/report has been floated for the duration...
 

jward

passin' thru
The highlighted part is designed to catch the eye and you don't read the context.

Read the context.

"I am referring not only to the western encouraged shelling of the Zaporozhye Nuclear Power Plant, which poses a threat of nuclear disaster, but also to the statements made by some high ranking representatives of the leading NATO countries on the possibility and admissibility of using weapons of mass destruction - nuclear weapons - against Russia...

... In the event of a threat to the territorial integrity of our country and to defend Russia and our people, we will certainly make use of all weapon systems available to us. This is not a bluff
."


Putin is only reiterating a statement he has made from the beginning.

That if NATO uses nukes against Russia, Russia will retaliate in kind.

Would we do any different in his position?
course not, just documenting the actual documented positions as they exist at the time of this perhaps historical, unfolding event.
 

TheChrome

Contributing Member
Zelensky is the one calling for preemptive nuclear strikes.

I don't think people realize how serious this is getting...

17:44 Tucker Carlson: This is insane
Fox News host Tucker Carlson weighs in on the Russia-Ukraine conflict on 'Tucker Carlson Tonight.'
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MJDvr-1Z-A
It is mind boggling how ill informed Tucker Carlson is. At about 2:42 in this video he talks about "total regime change" to "avenge Donald Trump." This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. The Obama Administration started regime change in Ukraine in 2014 when they planned the ouster of Pro-Russian Victor Yanukovych. This pissed Russia off and started the whole annexation scenario. I forgive Tucker, he just has no understanding of what has really happened!
 

TheSearcher

Are you sure about that?
That if NATO uses nukes against Russia, Russia will retaliate in kind.

Would we do any different in his position?
No, the threat against Russian territorial integrity is not necessarily Western nukes. The big (yuge) issue is that the two disputed regions that Putin wants to absorb are not going to be viewed by the Ukrainians as Russian territory just because Russia says so. These regions are in an active war zone, plus Ukraine would likely fight to keep them even if they were not. From Russia's newly-minted point of view on the matter, such an attempt by the Ukraine to retain/regain that territory would therefore be a threat against Russian territorial integrity. Nukes from the West don't have to be involved. Just retaliation.

You ready for Russia to nuke the Ukraine and God knows who else because they claim that they absorbed two chunks of the Ukraine? That's where this leads. Russia wants either an easy victory, or barring that, a self-manufactured validation to drop nukes on folks.
 

kochevnik

Senior Member
Zelensky is the one calling for preemptive nuclear strikes.

I don't think people realize how serious this is getting...

17:44 Tucker Carlson: This is insane

So basically - Tucker Carlson and Fox News backs up EVERYTHING Putin has said the Americans were responsible for doing.

That they started this war in the first place
That they stopped a peace agreement from happening
That they are threatening to nuke Russia
That their primary goal in all this is NOT for Ukraine to regain its sovereignity but it is regime change in Russia with the goal to turn it into yet another failed state like the US has done all over the globe like they did in Iraq
and that part of that is that they must overthrow Putin

The fact that this was instigated under Obama's watch and that the current Democractic/RINO leadership in the House and the Senate is blindly leading us directly into Armageddon should be obvious to everyone on this thread.

Tucker seems to think the true underlying reason for this is Russia Russia Russia because supposedly Putin supported Trump. Only the most maniacally insane people on the planet - Leftist assholes - could think in such a manner.
But it actually makes perfect sense in a nation where we have drag queen sexual indoctrination story hour for children.

The part of that segment where Tucker talks about Iraq being a 20 year long disaster is kind of hilarious.

I remember in 2003 when the Iraq War was being considered, they ran a poll in which 98 percent of white male republicans were ADAMANTLY in favor of the Iraq War including of course everyone at Faux Snooze and pretty much everyone on the TB2K board at the time too.

Anyone trying to point out the insanity of it all was quickly shouted down.

The only TRUE regime change that needs to happen is the elimination of virtually all high politicians in the USA.

or again - these people are going to do something that will end up in the deaths of most of your children and grandchildren - and you too of course.

And u will never convince me that supporting them in this effort is anything other than insane and evil.
 
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kochevnik

Senior Member
It is mind boggling how ill informed Tucker Carlson is. At about 2:42 in this video he talks about "total regime change" to "avenge Donald Trump." This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard. The Obama Administration started regime change in Ukraine in 2014 when they planned the ouster of Pro-Russian Victor Yanukovych. This pissed Russia off and started the whole annexation scenario. I forgive Tucker, he just has no understanding of what has really happened!

You misunderstood that completely - he's saying that the Left wants regime change IN RUSSIA because they continue to believe Putin was instrumental in helping Trump becoming president.

You are basically saying u fully support all the Leftist goals - u understand that yes ?

Those of u doing the 'Putin is evil and must be removed from power' rhetoric ?

U have the exact same position that Hillary Clinton has right now - and has had ever since she got her ass handed to her by Trump.

Might want to think about that.
 
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DuckandCover

Proud Sheeple

northern watch

Has No Life - Lives on TB

A crucial Greek port will now fall under American control​

Andrés Mourenza - Yesterday 11:02 p.m. September 22 2022
EL Pais

It was once hard to locate the quiet port city of Alexandroupolis on a map. Recently, however, it has grown in strategic importance as Washington strengthens military ties with Greece. This has been to the detriment of America’s longtime ally, Turkey, as the authoritarian President Erdogan is increasingly distrusted by Western leaders.

American soldiers repair a helicopter in the Alexandroupolis port, July 2020
American soldiers repair a helicopter in the Alexandroupolis port, July 2020© Nicolas Economou (NurPhoto via Getty Images)

Alexandroupolis is a crucial entry point for the shipment of military material to Ukraine, as well as a strategic location for the diversification of European energy sources. It is located in the far northeast of the country, 18 miles west of the Turkish border and 30 miles south of Bulgaria.

Over the last three years, the United States and Greece have signed agreements to strengthen their defense cooperation and guarantee “unlimited access” to a series of Hellenic military bases. Among these is a Greek Armed Forces installation in Alexandroupolis. Since this collaboration began, the port has experienced unusually high traffic of military ships, so much so that, when 1,500 Marines from the USS Arlington docked in May, the city’s 57,000 inhabitants faced shortages of some products, such as eggs and tobacco.

“The port can receive ships of up to 650 feet in length. Its proximity to the newly improved road network and its connection to the railways makes it one of the most important ports in Greece,” explains Reserve Lieutenant General Ilias Leontaris. “The US has asked Greece to include Alexandroupolis in the list of areas where the Americans will have a presence, because this port allows them to move forces and materials to Eastern Europe with ease.”

The Americans have made certain improvements to the port aimed at facilitating the loading and unloading of materials. In 2021 alone, the US Armed Forces moved 3,100 “pieces” through it, according to official sources cited by The New York Times. These sources did not specify the type of military material, but assured the Times that it was all destined for US bases in Europe. This year, up until July, more than 2,400 pieces of equipment moved through the port. Bushmaster Protected Mobility Vehicles – sent by Australia to Ukraine – have also landed in the Alexandroupolis port, according to the Greek newspaper Kathimerini.

US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin thanked his Greek counterpart for his support during a meeting at the Pentagon in July: “I would like to underline that the priority access your government has granted our forces in the port of Alexandroupolis has allowed us to continue providing military assistance to Ukraine, countering malign actors and operating in the Balkans, the Eastern Mediterranean and the Black Sea region.”

The US deployment in Alexandroupolis has not gone unnoticed by Moscow. As early as January, the Kremlin accused Washington of sending weapons to Kyiv through the Greek port. Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov urged Athens to reconsider its alliance with the US by appealing to the “historic ties” between the Greeks and the Russians. The Turkish government has also criticized this military presence, worried that a city so close to its border has become a veritable fortress.

At the start of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, Ankara ordered the closure of the straits leading to the Black Sea to Russian and Ukrainian military ships. The Turkish government also refused its NATO partners the ability to send weapons to Ukraine via this passage.

“Alexandroupolis is a gateway to the Balkans and the corridor to Ukraine. As Turkey has become a less reliable ally, it is necessary to have an alternative route that can be activated,” says Harry Theoharis, a former Greek minister and MP for the right-wing New Democracy party. Hence, the port of Alexandroupolis has become a coveted geopolitical object, now that its management is being offered to the highest bidder.

In exchange for successive financial rescue packages that the EU has given Greece over the last decade, Brussels has forced Athens to privatize numerous public assets, including the management of its ports. The largest, in Piraeus, was acquired by Cosco, a Chinese state-owned company. Meanwhile, the port in Thessaloniki was sold to a consortium headed by businessman Ivan Savvidis, a Russian-Greek oligarch and politician, who was a deputy in the State Duma for President Vladimir Putin’s United Russia party.

Dimitris Rapidis – former advisor to Dimitrios Papadimoulis, Vice-President of the European Parliament, of the left-wing SYRIZA Party – has criticized the privatization plan. “It’s a mistake to privatize the large ports, since there are no guarantees for the future of the workers or the safety of the area. The EU has clearly put financial interests above security concerns.”

By the deadline on Thursday, September 22, Greece had received two binding bids for a majority stake in the Alexandroupolis port. One is by Quintana, an American company with interests in the energy sector; the other is by International Port Investments Alexandroupolis, a joint venture led by the Greek construction company GEK Terna, with participation from BlackSummit, a US investment fund. Two other bidders with Russian ties – one owned by Savvidis, the other by the Coupelouzos family, who have a partnership with the Russian energy company Gazprom – were ultimately excluded.

“We are not going to hide that we have the support of the US government,” says John Charalambakis, managing director of BlackSummit Financial Group. EL PAÍS has two sources claiming that American and European political representatives travelled to Greece to exert pressure on the deal.

“Greece is becoming the energy gateway to the EU. And we intend to use the port of Alexandroupolis and that of Kavala [also recently privatized] to advance the interests of the West in the axes of military security, energy security, food security – Alexandroupolis can export Ukraine’s grain – and commercial security,” Charalambakis affirms.
The recent decision on the port of Alexandroupolis will influence the relationship that Athens has with Washington and Moscow – successive Greek governments have tried to maintain a policy of balance between both powers. This will now surely be tested.

 
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db cooper

Resident Secret Squirrel
That would be huge if true, but I'm skeptical. The source describes themselves as "Geopolitics, Foreign Policy, International Relations, Sarcasm." I didn't see any replies to that tweet and I would have expected many comments. I dunno, not saying it isn't real, but I'm not totally buying it, either.
It's a video of some trucks in the distance - period. No city ID, no trucks ID. The video itself offers no evidence of anything. Their youtube website material strongly suggests they are anti-Russian. My point is as always, so much propaganda, and this certainly is, that it's really hard to tell what's going on.
 

jward

passin' thru

Faytuks News Δ
@Faytuks


BREAKING: Russia plans to mobilize 1.2 million people, source tells Meduza


8:44 AM · Sep 23, 2022·Twitter for iPhone

View: https://twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1573307615610011650?s=20


Source close to Moscow’s leadership told Meduza that up to 16,000 people from the capital are slated to be drafted. Authorities in St. Petersburg plan to draft roughly 3,200 people, according to a source close to the Presidential Envoy to Russia’s Northwestern Federal District.
 
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