ALERT RUSSIA INVADES UKRAINE - Consolidated Thread

northern watch

TB Fanatic
Oh plzzzz just stop with all the tough talk you spineless NATO frauds. I knew what NATO was back in 1974, which was a joke. Now some of the polish and ukie main line combat units will smack the ruskies before being squashed like bugs.

But the baltic states? Finland Germany? :prfl: Last I checked Germany was a joke. No training. No discipline. No equipment. No leadership. This ain't the 1944 Wehrmacht or Waffen SS we are talking about here.

Face it they are all caving cuz putin called their bluff and biden, obama, and the rest of them chickened out when they looked down putin's tank barrel.:hof:
Merkel has left Germany defenseless.
 

northern watch

TB Fanatic
Russia edges closer to war as new arms arrive on Ukraine’s border
A recent sighting of Putin’s notorious Buk missiles on their way to the frontline does not bode well for talks
Andrew Roth in Moscow
The Guardian
Sun 12 Dec 2021 11.45 GMT

A flatbed rail wagon speeding through south-west Russia last week carried an ill omen for negotiations to avert a larger war with Ukraine.

On board was a Buk-M1, the kind of medium-range surface-to-air missile system that became notorious in 2014 after a missile fired from territory controlled by Russian proxies in eastern Ukraine shot down a Malaysian airliner, killing all 298 people aboard.

If Russia goes to war in Ukraine, it still needs to take a number of steps: establishing fuel supply lines, opening field hospitals and deploying air-defence systems such as the Buk that would protect its heavy weaponry and troops near the front.

Even as Joe Biden and Vladimir Putin were sitting down to talks meant to end the crisis, Russia was inching closer to being ready to launch a full-scale ground invasion of its neighbour.

“These data allow us to conclude that despite the negotiations between Biden and Putin, the concentration of Russian troops in the areas bordering the territory controlled by the Ukrainian authorities continues,” wrote the Conflict Intelligence Team (CIT) – an online research group that has used social media, railway schedules and other data to reveal details of Russia’s military buildup on the border.

Putin may still decide not to launch an invasion, as he leaves troops near the front as leverage for negotiations. But Russian and western analysts are predicting that this military buildup – the second one this year – portends a series of future crises over Ukraine as Putin seeks to reverse its trajectory towards the west.

Vladimir Putin attended at a press conference in Sochi earlier this month

Vladimir Putin attended at a press conference in Sochi earlier this month. Photograph: Valery Sharifulin/TASS

“Even if Putin gets something from the west, serious talks or discussions about guarantees – will that be enough for Putin?” said Tatiana Stanovaya, founder of the political analysis firm R.Politik. “We are witnessing the dawn of a new geopolitical adventurism from Russia.”

Despite the Putin-Biden talks, the crisis is growing deeper.

On Thursday, Russia’s FSB said it had intercepted a Ukrainian ship in the Sea of Azov near Crimea for failing to obey orders. A day later, Russia closed nearly 70% of the Sea of Azov, a shared body of water also used by Ukraine, for firing drills. Then there is the escalating rhetoric.

Deputy foreign minister Sergei Ryabkov has said Russia and the US may be hurtling towards a repeat of the 1962 Cuban missile crisis. And Putin said that the situation in eastern Ukraine “looked like genocide” in a recent meeting, raising fears he could seek a pretext to send his troops into the country.

With its military threat on the table, Russia’s foreign ministry released its list of demands for how to end the crisis on Friday. Chief among them was for Nato to “officially disavow the decision of the 2008 Bucharest Nato summit that ‘Ukraine and Georgia will become Nato members’”.

Putin has spent the last two decades trying to fight Nato expansion, but the possible accession of Ukraine into the military alliance has always touched deeper emotions, and in part motivated him to order the annexation of Crimea and provoke a war in eastern Ukraine that has killed more than 14,000 people.

“I told them: please don’t touch Ukraine or there’s going to be a problem,” said Fyodor Lukyanov, an influential Russian foreign policy analyst, of his discussions with western colleagues about Nato’s enlargement in the 2000s.

“There is a real red line. Right or wrong … this kind of engagement with Ukraine on security and military affairs – that is seen here as absolutely unacceptable.”

Lukyanov said Putin saw it as his “duty as president” not to leave the “Ukrainian problem” – meaning its trajectory towards the west – for the next Russian leader.

The US has sought to persuade Russia that Ukraine would not join the alliance any time soon, but on Friday Moscow demanded a more formal declaration. That was a non-starter, Nato head Jens Stoltenberg said within hours of the demand being made public. “Nato’s relationship with Ukraine is going to be decided by the 30 Nato allies and Ukraine – no one else,” he said during a press conference with Germany’s new chancellor, Olaf Scholz.

In Ukraine, support for joining Nato has jumped considerably in recent years as the country has sought protection from an increasingly aggressive Russia. And for the nations on Nato’s eastern flank, allowing Russia to dictate the alliance’s policy on Ukraine is seen as the first step down a slippery slope towards recognising a Russian sphere of influence.

A satellite image of a Russian troop location in Voronezh, near the border with Ukraine

A satellite image of a Russian troop location in Voronezh, near the border with Ukraine. Photograph: AP

“History shows that pledges of neutrality by Ukraine or any other country in the region do nothing to abate Putin’s appetite; rather, they feed it,” wrote Ukraine’s foreign minister, Dmytro Kuleba, in an article published by Foreign Affairs on Friday. “The best way to respond to such ultimatums is to ignore them altogether.”

There are doubts whether Russia really wants to strike any deal at all. Analysts noted that despite Moscow building up its forces for months, Russian diplomats had not prepared any formal documents or even formulated the country’s demands until last week. And the idea of mustering nearly 100,000 troops within striking distance of the Ukrainian border (the US has said that Russia could increase that number to 175,000 by the end of January) just to hold talks with Biden has struck western observers as overkill.

That brings us back to the Buk, which, as CIT noted, had its numbers crudely painted over in an effort to prevent identification. Russia employed similar tactics during its clandestine invasion of Ukraine in 2014.

The clock is ticking. Putin could pull back, but it would be embarrassing to do so without a solid win in hand. And Russia’s demands look impossible to fulfil for the west: “Putin thinks that if Biden wants, he can move mountains, he can convince allies and convince Kyiv [to make concessions],” said Stanovaya. “This problem could lead Putin to demand the impossible and push the stakes so high that everything ends in war.”

Russia edges closer to war as new arms arrive on Ukraine’s border | Ukraine | The Guardian
 
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Infoscout

The Dude Abides
Has any news agency provided information whether there has been a buildup near the Baltic states, sine the Uke front is so blatant, my fear is this is a feint for another offensive, possibly in the pacific?

My point is, they really can’t act in Europe unless the US is in a weakened state, I think EMP or traditional terror attacks may be used to cripple us before an attack in Europe.
 

Mongo

Veteran Member
My point is, they really can’t act in Europe unless the US is in a weakened state, I think EMP or traditional terror attacks may be used to cripple us before an attack in Europe.
That is just not true. They could take eastern Ukraine IF they attack BEFORE we move heavy assets to the area. NATO is nothing without US forces and we just do not have enough in Europe to impress the Russians...
 

Grumphau

Veteran Member
That is just not true. They could take eastern Ukraine IF they attack BEFORE we move heavy assets to the area. NATO is nothing without US forces and we just do not have enough in Europe to impress the Russians...
I think there is a chance of an EMP if they intend to start a larger war.
 

Zoner

Veteran Member
All Russia China and their proxies need to do is to disable America and bring her down then Europe and Asia are easy pickings. They have NATO looking at the Ukraine and Taiwan and Iran but who’s watching the good old USA?
 

AlfaMan

Has No Life - Lives on TB

Which is INTENSELY scary, folks. Rest assured he will defer any decisions on "consequences" against Russia to his generals on the ground in Europe reporting directly to JCS (Joint chiefs of staff, the generals at the top of the generals/leadership food chain).
JCS will invariably play "my weiner is bigger than yours" and try to outdo each other with strategic and tactical moves. Generals don't climb their way to the top by being diplomatic and conciliatory. If he puts decisions in the generals' hands expect lots of bloodshed.
 

Squid

Veteran Member
Why would Russia invade other countries and increase the chances of a larger conflict with the US and Nato?

If they ‘limit’ their aggression to Ukraine and retake 1/2 the country then loser Biden will likely do nothing but send advanced weapons to make the conflict painful but likely not create an actual deterrence.

This would then look to everyone but the US media as a repeat of Hitler annexing ‘the Sudentenland’ in 1938.

The US State Department can then ‘broker’ a peace deal and Biden and the moronic media can claim to have created ‘peace in our time’
 

jward

passin' thru
Russia Threatens ‘Military Response’ to NATO Expansion



Updated: 2 hours ago


TASS_39838148.jpg
Russia's Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov. Russian Foreign Ministry Press Office / TASS
Russia will respond “militarily” to what it perceives as NATO’s encroachment on its western borders, a senior diplomat said Monday.
Deputy Foreign Ministry Sergei Ryabkov’s threat follows Moscow’s complaints over NATO weapons deployment in Eastern Europe and Western warnings of Russia’s imminent invasion of Ukraine.
“Our response will be military” if the Western military bloc does not guarantee an end to its eastward expansion, Ryabkov told the state-run RIA Novosti news agency.

“There will be confrontation,” he added, warning that Moscow would deploy weapons that were previously banned under the INF Treaty, which expired in 2019.

“Currently, [these banned weapons] do not exist; we have a unilateral moratorium. We call on NATO and the United States to join this moratorium,” Ryabkov said, lamenting that “they just don’t respond to our proposals.”
“There’s basically no trust in NATO,” the senior diplomat told RIA Novosti. “Therefore, we’re no longer playing this kind of game and don’t believe NATO’s assurances.”

Elsewhere in Monday’s interview, Ryabkov derided the United States’ “inexplicable fixation” on the threat of a Russian invasion of Ukraine.
“This isn’t so and cannot be,” he said.
Russian President Vladimir Putin held a videoconference with U.S. President Joe Biden last week, where he did not say whether he planned to go on the attack but insisted that Russia has a right to defend its security.
Putin also demanded from Biden that the West guarantee in writing that Ukraine would not be a staging ground for NATO.
On Friday, Russia’s Foreign Ministry demanded that the U.S. formally close the door to NATO membership to the ex-Soviet republics of Ukraine and Georgia.

The Foreign Ministry also demanded that the Western military bloc guarantee the non-deployment of weapons threatening Russia’s security on its western borders.

Posted For Fair Use
 

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Only read the last page, so this may be up already, if so sorry for the double post.

Btw I wish Roger Wicker would shoot his mouth off again. Scum. Note the source.

Russia said on Monday it may be forced to deploy intermediate-range nuclear missiles in Europe in response to what it sees as NATO's plans to do the same.


Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov told Russia's RIA news agency in an interview that Moscow would have to take the step if NATO refused to engage with it on preventing such an escalation.

His comments further raised the stakes in an East-West standoff in which Russia is demanding security guarantees from the West while the United States and its allies are warning Moscow to pull back from what they see as a possible invasion of Ukraine - something Ryabkov again denied was Russia's intent.

Intermediate-range nuclear forces (INF) in Europe were banned under a 1987 treaty agreed between Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev and U.S. President Ronald Reagan in what was hailed at the time as a major easing of Cold War tensions. Washington quit the pact in 2019 after complaining for years of alleged Russian violations.

Ryabkov said there were "indirect indications" that NATO was moving closer to re-deploying INF, including its restoration last month of the 56th Artillery Command which operated nuclear-capable Pershing missiles during the Cold War.

'COMPLETE LACK OF TRUST'

"Lack of progress towards a political and diplomatic solution to this problem will lead to our response being of a military and technical military nature," he said.

"That is, it will be a confrontation, this will the next round, the appearance of such resources on our side. Right now there aren't any, we have a unilateral moratorium. We call for NATO and the U.S. to join this moratorium."

NATO says there will be no new U.S. missiles in Europe and it is ready to deter new Russian missiles with a "measured" response that would only involve conventional weapons.

But Ryabkov said Russia had a "complete lack of trust" in NATO.

"They don't permit themselves to do anything that could somehow increase our security - they believe they can act as they need, to their advantage, and we simply have to swallow all this and deal with it. This is not going to continue."

Russian President Vladimir Putin and U.S. President Joe Biden held two hours of talks last week on the Ukraine crisis and Moscow's demand for what it calls legally binding security guarantees from the West.

Ryabkov said Russia would present its follow-up proposals to the United States, and possibly also to other NATO countries, in the coming weeks. Putin's spokesman, however, said he expected the Russian ideas to be presented this week.

Russia says it may be forced to deploy intermediate nuclear missiles in Europe (msn.com)

While the link is to MSN above the article is from The Jerusalem Post.
 
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CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
This article might actually need to be in front of the one above to be chronologically right.


EU Threatens Putin: ‘Aggression Against Ukraine Will Have a High Cost for Russia’
Ukraine
Pool/Getty Images
BRUSSELS (AP) – European Union foreign ministers met Monday to discuss how to thwart the threat of a possible new Russian invasion of Ukraine and what measures to take should Moscow decide to send its troops across the border.
U.S. intelligence officials say Russia has moved 70,000 troops toward Ukraine’s border and is preparing for a possible invasion early next year. Moscow denies it has any plans to attack Ukraine and rejects Western concerns as part of a smear campaign.

“We are on deter mode,” to dissuade Russia, EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell said.

Borrell, who is chairing Monday’s meeting, said that no decisions about sanctions against Russia would be taken but that the ministers would discuss what steps to take and when, in coordination with the United States and Britain.

“In any case, we will send a clear signal that any aggression against Ukraine will have a high cost for Russia” and underline the 27-country bloc’s support for Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity, Borrell told reporters in Brussels.
Foreign Secretary Liz Truss threatened that Russian action against Ukraine "would be a strategic mistake, and there will be severe consequences for Russia." UK Govt Threatens 'Severe Consequences for Russia' over Ukraine
— Breitbart London (@BreitbartLondon) December 11, 2021

Lithuania warned that Russia’s troop movements of late were no mere menace.

“We are convinced that Russia is actually preparing for the all-out war against Ukraine,” Lithuanian Foreign Minister Gabrielius Landsbergis said.
If carried out, it would be “an unprecedented attack on a country that shows a Western direction. That means that the answer has to be unprecedented from the Western countries as well,” Landsbergis said.

But the EU’s big powers, France and Germany, and other members of the 27-nation further from Russia’s borders, do not share the same assessment as the U.S., Poland, and the Baltic countries of Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania. They acknowledge Russia’s troop movements but do not consider an attack imminent.

In 2015, France and Germany brokered a peace agreement that helped end large-scale hostilities in Ukraine’s east, where Ukrainian forces have been fighting Russia-backed separatists since 2014, when Russia annexed Ukraine’s Crimean Peninsula.

Efforts to reach a political settlement to the separatist conflict, which has killed more than 14,000 people in seven years, have failed. Sporadic skirmishes continue along the tense line of contact. Russia so far refuses to meet France and Germany for more “Normandy format” peace talks.

The EU foreign ministers’ meeting is a prelude to a busy week of diplomacy in Brussels focused on Ukraine. The leaders of EU nations meet Wednesday with their counterparts from Ukraine, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia and Moldova. An EU summit on Thursday is expected to also focus on what actions might be necessary.
Former Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (D-HI) is cautioning against the overheated rhetoric with regards to a possible armed conflict with Russia over Ukraine. Gabbard: Same Neocons, Neolibs Who Pushed Regime Change in Iraq, Libya, Syria Are Pushing Conflict with Russia
— Breitbart News (@BreitbartNews) December 9, 2021
EU Threatens Putin: Ukraine Aggression 'Will Have a High Cost for Russia' (breitbart.com)
 

Techwreck

Veteran Member
But Ryabkov said Russia had a "complete lack of trust" in NATO.

"They don't permit themselves to do anything that could somehow increase our security - they believe they can act as they need, to their advantage, and we simply have to swallow all this and deal with it. This is not going to continue."

The globalist deepstate is used to taking and forcing, not negotiating in good faith.
Arrogance, meet resolve.
Trump would have made a deal that works for everyone.
Bumbling Biden's handlers are going to get an enormous number of people dead.
 

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
The globalist deepstate is used to taking and forcing, not negotiating.
Arrogance, meet resolve.
Trump would have made a deal that works for everyone.
Bumbling Biden's handlers are going to get an enormous number of people dead.
Kind of sounds like our government here in the US, why shouldn't they do that overseas. Get vaxxed, higher gas prices = less climate change, higher meat prices = healthy veggie life, more border crossers = a bigger lower wage source (not to mention dem voters) and the list goes on..........

Whether you are for it or not.
 

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
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