HEALTH Monkeypox - more bad news
- Thread starter helen
- Start date
Here's another one, bigger bottle:
from "Wild Natural Living.com
the northern pitcher plant
double extracted Sarracenia Purpurea
as I recall, someone on here at the time said they had issues with one of the companies knowledge about their product, and I can't recall which it was.
from "Wild Natural Living.com
the northern pitcher plant
double extracted Sarracenia Purpurea
as I recall, someone on here at the time said they had issues with one of the companies knowledge about their product, and I can't recall which it was.
jed turtle
a brother in the Lord
Cliff High had an episode where he talked about how the last time smallpox swept through Siberia a small poor village who couldn’t afford coffee but used Chaga tea instead was the only place that the smallpox didn’t affect.
helen
Panic Sex Lady
I started warning you about monkeypox in 2019. It took about three years to go global with human-to-human transmission. That was clade 2b, the mildest form. Gene sequencing showed something like 50 mutations from the original. All at once. Dogs got it from their owners. A straight mother got it from her job in a hotel. Cases are rising everywhere, including in the U.S.
This monkeypox human-to-human spread in DR Congo is clade 1. Different official sources give clade 1 a 5% to 10% or higher fatality rate. I read African case studies showing 33% to 66% fatality within villages.
I have studied monkeypox in relation to smallpox for over twenty years. Back then, U.S. military sources said the difference between the two diseases were only discernable under an electron microscope.
I have read translations of medical studies from all over the world regarding monkeypox. They found it in Denmark and the U.S. decades ago in imported lab monkeys from Africa. They know African rodents carry it. They don't otherwise know much about where it comes from.
They have found live monkeypox virus on flies. Think about it. They have found chimps who died from monkeypox with no lesions, asymptomatic from visual inspection if you will. Think about it.
If you don't like a particular source, there are plenty of others. I have posted massive documentation along with links for years. You can search here or go out and research for yourself.
If you don't follow the science, follow the money. You can watch stock prices and read discussions of the potential market for monkeypox vaccines. DR Congo did not receive any shipments of monkeypox vaccine while cases of clade 1 made it into urban populations like Kinshasa.
Look what happened in September 2023:
This monkeypox human-to-human spread in DR Congo is clade 1. Different official sources give clade 1 a 5% to 10% or higher fatality rate. I read African case studies showing 33% to 66% fatality within villages.
I have studied monkeypox in relation to smallpox for over twenty years. Back then, U.S. military sources said the difference between the two diseases were only discernable under an electron microscope.
I have read translations of medical studies from all over the world regarding monkeypox. They found it in Denmark and the U.S. decades ago in imported lab monkeys from Africa. They know African rodents carry it. They don't otherwise know much about where it comes from.
They have found live monkeypox virus on flies. Think about it. They have found chimps who died from monkeypox with no lesions, asymptomatic from visual inspection if you will. Think about it.
If you don't like a particular source, there are plenty of others. I have posted massive documentation along with links for years. You can search here or go out and research for yourself.
If you don't follow the science, follow the money. You can watch stock prices and read discussions of the potential market for monkeypox vaccines. DR Congo did not receive any shipments of monkeypox vaccine while cases of clade 1 made it into urban populations like Kinshasa.
Look what happened in September 2023:
Tristan
Has No Life - Lives on TB
I get the idea they look forward to spreading the 'joy'.
Do appreciate your efforts, Helen.
helen
Panic Sex Lady
It's the vaccine maker market estimates that scare me the most. I won't be back until my hair is on fire. Just...watch for it.
night driver
ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
Interesting that MP and Variola are that close. IIRC, Cowpox can generate immunity to variola (Hence the old saw about "wanting a doc with dirty fingernails" because at the time docs often treated vet issues (cows) and humans). Wonder if they are THAT close (MP and Small Pox (variola)) if the immunity works to the other side on MP...
night driver
ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
I find it interesting that the WHO Fact Sheet (updated in April, 2023) is so out of date.:::
Animal to human transmission of mpox occurs from infected animals to humans from bites or scratches, or during activities such as hunting, skinning, trapping, cooking, playing with carcasses, or eating animals. The extent of viral circulation in animal populations is not entirely known and further studies are underway.
People can contract mpox from contaminated objects such as clothing or linens, through sharps injuries in health care, or in community setting such as tattoo parlours.
============================================================================
The above is from the April 2023 update.
Interesting that there are sources that discuss a different Clade than I and II AND IIb.
Apparently the "new Clade" is more lethal and can be spread through contact with contaminated porous and non-porous objects (as opposed to the info above).
=================================================================
Fool me once, shame on YOU. Fool me TWICE, shame on ME..........except......
They are working on using bugs I have some academic familiarity with and my neck hair is a-risin!!!
Avoiding being fooled when I have some familiarity with these bugs is gonna be damn difficult.
Transmission
Person-to-person transmission of mpox can occur through direct contact with infectious skin or other lesions such as in the mouth or on genitals; this includes contact which is- face-to-face (talking or breathing)
- skin-to-skin (touching or vaginal/anal sex)
- mouth-to-mouth (kissing)
- mouth-to-skin contact (oral sex or kissing the skin)
- respiratory droplets or short-range aerosols from prolonged close contact
Animal to human transmission of mpox occurs from infected animals to humans from bites or scratches, or during activities such as hunting, skinning, trapping, cooking, playing with carcasses, or eating animals. The extent of viral circulation in animal populations is not entirely known and further studies are underway.
People can contract mpox from contaminated objects such as clothing or linens, through sharps injuries in health care, or in community setting such as tattoo parlours.
============================================================================
The above is from the April 2023 update.
Interesting that there are sources that discuss a different Clade than I and II AND IIb.
Apparently the "new Clade" is more lethal and can be spread through contact with contaminated porous and non-porous objects (as opposed to the info above).
=================================================================
Fool me once, shame on YOU. Fool me TWICE, shame on ME..........except......
They are working on using bugs I have some academic familiarity with and my neck hair is a-risin!!!
Avoiding being fooled when I have some familiarity with these bugs is gonna be damn difficult.
Tristan
Has No Life - Lives on TB
I wish you'd clarify that statement before you engage the cloaking device... Perhaps I'm a bit slow today.
Market estimates as in units necessary to produce? Estimated $ market valuation of a vaccine?
A large variety of scientific WAGs would go into either.
Unless, of course, a vaccine maker was sure of Governmental 'support' both in mandate and money...
Last edited:
desertvet2
Veteran Member
I assume...3
Tristan
Has No Life - Lives on TB
The very best of scams have very high believe-ability and at least some evidence of necessity.
As Billy Gates famously said: "The next one will really get your attention!"
What better than something like MPox? That pump was primed last year in the public's perception.
Then, when they mandate a vaccine and pay for it with Govt. funds, and the outbreak is contained, they get to say "See! It worked!" Then they're "Heroes", and even more of their friends are Billionaires. (I'm guessing it's nice to have Billionaire friends...)
May even be that a few other, secondary and tertiary goals get met, too...
Assuming of course that it could be planned, developed and managed as a control mechanism/money pump, and not natural.
(And of course, once trust is lost it's an absolute bitch to recover - in case you're wondering how my mind could possibly even go there.)
Tristan
Has No Life - Lives on TB
desertvet2
Veteran Member
Option 3
"Unless, of course, a vaccine maker was sure of Governmental 'support' both in mandate and money..."
"Unless, of course, a vaccine maker was sure of Governmental 'support' both in mandate and money..."
psychgirl
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Which leads to control mechanisms
Samuel Adams
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Pharmaceuticals are sorcerers.
If The Boss wants me dead cuz I refuse to play with sorcerers, can’t happen fast enough.
If The Boss wants me dead cuz I refuse to play with sorcerers, can’t happen fast enough.
desertvet2
Veteran Member
Just wondering to myself...
How many U.N. troops are now in CONUS ?
The W.H.O. edicts on controls.
C.B.D.C.
INTERNET I.D.
CDC.
what it will take for Americans to ACTUALLY firmly grip and aim small.
Tis a foul stench on the morning breeze.
Yet it cannot be identified, as the sun is yet to rise.
Something...MUCH MORE WICKED, THIS WAY COMES.
How many U.N. troops are now in CONUS ?
The W.H.O. edicts on controls.
C.B.D.C.
INTERNET I.D.
CDC.
what it will take for Americans to ACTUALLY firmly grip and aim small.
Tis a foul stench on the morning breeze.
Yet it cannot be identified, as the sun is yet to rise.
Something...MUCH MORE WICKED, THIS WAY COMES.
Tristan
Has No Life - Lives on TB
momma_soapmaker
Disgusted
Michelle.
ssbn642blue
Veteran Member
Our G ovt. is a liar. Always has been to the populace. Why do we ever believe them????And answer is yes, we have labs there...
Russia claims US moved part of biological projects to Africa
Senior official claims Pentagon monitors biological situation in Afghanistan, Iraq in regions bordering China, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Türkiye - Anadolu Ajansıwww.aa.com.tr
Russia claims US moved part of biological projects to Africa
Senior official claims Pentagon monitors biological situation in Afghanistan, Iraq in regions bordering China, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Türkiye
Elena Teslova |31.10.2023 - Update : 31.10.2023
MOSCOW
Russia on Tuesday claimed that the US moved part of its "unfinished" Ukrainian projects researching biological weapons to Africa.
The work is underway in Cameroon, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Nigeria, Sierra Leone, Uganda, Igor Kirillov, the head of Russia's troops of radiological, chemical, and biological defense, told a briefing in Moscow.
"Today, using the example of Nigeria, we would like to show that the stated goals of projects aimed at the development of public health do not match with the reality," he said.
The Russian official went on saying that the Pentagon claims that biological projects in Nigeria are aimed at combating HIV/AIDS, accordingly, 60% of Nigerian patients, suffering from it, underwent the relevant antivirus therapy.
"The HIV incidence rate has not changed much and currently corresponds to the values of 2009. The percentage of mortality among HIV-infected people also shows a negative trend," Kirillov said.
He also claimed that the Russian Defense Ministry has documents confirming that the US military department was tasked with monitoring the biological situation in the territories of Afghanistan and Iraq in regions bordering China, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Türkiye.
The official questioned the necessity to cover traces leading to the major contractor, the Pentagon, as outlined in the documents.
"The documents emphasize the need ... to limit the traces leading to the contractor, (Pentagons specialists) should carry out short trips to Afghanistan and Iraq from the office in Dubai only if necessary," he said.
Kirillov further said that "to avoid accusations against the Pentagon, some projects were implemented under the cover of the US State Department."
Ukrainian projects
Kirillov also claimed that the US "maintains an increased interest in conducting research on Ukrainian territory," retains control over some Ukrainian biological research facilities, "hoping to resume their activities after the end of the conflict."
In 2023, the activity of the Ukrainian Science and Technology Center, which is the main intermediary distributing Pentagon grants, resumed in Kyiv.
The Russian official also claimed that training of the Ukrainian specialists under the US supervision is aimed at organizing a "provocation" against Russia as during the exercises, he said, an outbreak of the bird flu will be "discovered" in Ukraine's Mykolaiv region.
The analysis then will "show" that the incident is "highly likely" to be the result of an alleged biological sabotage organized by Russia.
"Information about the outbreak is covered by the media, primarily Western ones, to draw attention to the situation, medical workers are brought to the streets with posters about holding Russia accountable for violating convention obligations," he said.
Then, due to the scenario, an investigation will be initiated using the mechanism of the UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres to convince the international community of the transparency and impartiality of the data.
"The result of the scenario is the accusation of Russia for non-compliance with the requirements of the Biological Weapons Convention, its discreditation in the international arena and the introduction of additional sanctions against our country," he said.
helen
Panic Sex Lady
This set my hair on fire. He's talking about the return of covid. I believe him - but what if it's something worse?
View: https://twitter.com/PapiTrumpo/status/1729222821203566912/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1729222821203566912¤tTweetUser=PapiTrumpo
View: https://twitter.com/PapiTrumpo/status/1729222821203566912/mediaViewer?currentTweet=1729222821203566912¤tTweetUser=PapiTrumpo
psychgirl
Has No Life - Lives on TB
He’s definitely sending out a warning.
Blacknarwhal
Let's Go Brandon!
....aaaand it's gone.
It's up for me...
Summerthyme
Summerthyme
Blacknarwhal
Let's Go Brandon!
...I keep getting "this page does not exist." Odd. Oh...maybe I'm not logged in. That might fix it.
John Deere Girl
Veteran Member
I just watched it and it's up for me as well.
jed turtle
a brother in the Lord
If yu hit the small print link to X under the video, that’s where it says “does not exist”
helen
Panic Sex Lady
Dated November 30, 2023.
Global Monkeypox Treatment Industry, as projected by FMI, is set for significant growth, aiming at US$ 249 Million by 2033 - PharmiWeb.com
Key Takeaways from the Market Study:
www.pharmiweb.com
Global Monkeypox Treatment Industry, as projected by FMI, is set for significant growth, aiming at US$ 249 Million by 2033 - PharmiWeb.com
Key Takeaways from the Market Study:
- North America is expected to dominate the industry while reaching market share of around 48% by end of the forecast period.
- The market in Asia-Pacific is projected to reflect fastest CAGR of 11% during the projected timeline.
- By treatment type, tecovirimat is projected to account for 61% market share by end of the forecast period.
- By route of administration, oral segment is expected to account for 70% market share by end of 2033.
Global Monkeypox Treatment Industry, as projected by FMI, is set for significant growth, aiming at U
Monkeypox Treatment IndustryA recent Future Market Insights report on the global monkeypox treatment industry forecasts that demand is expected to rise at a CAGR of 10.25% from 2023 to 2033. The global monkeypox treatment market is expected to reach a valuation of US$ 93.84 million in 2023 and as...
www.pharmiweb.com
helen
Panic Sex Lady
Monkeypox Market – Global Industry Trends and Forecast to 2029 | Data Bridge Market Research
- Rise in Investors For Monkeypox Vaccines and Drugs
Opportunities
- Increasing Demand for Retail Pharmacies
Monkeypox Market Size, Future Scope, & Industry Trends By 2029
The Monkeypox Market is tend to be around 5.40% in the mentioned forecast period. It is divided as treatment, distribution channel and end-user.
www.google.com
helen
Panic Sex Lady
The vaccine is not 100% effective.
A San Diego gastroenterologist is sounding the alarm about a recent spike in mpox cases and is urging patients who’ve been vaccinated against the illness to still use caution after seeing breakthrough cases.
www.10news.com
A San Diego gastroenterologist is sounding the alarm about a recent spike in mpox cases and is urging patients who’ve been vaccinated against the illness to still use caution after seeing breakthrough cases.
San Diego doctor urging patients to use caution as mpox breakthrough cases rise
A San Diego gastroenterologist is sounding the alarm about a rise in mpox cases and is urging patients who’ve been vaccinated against the illness to still use caution after seeing breakthrough cases.
www.10news.com
rob0126
Veteran Member
The vaccine is not 100% effective.
A San Diego gastroenterologist is sounding the alarm about a recent spike in mpox cases and is urging patients who’ve been vaccinated against the illness to still use caution after seeing breakthrough cases.
San Diego doctor urging patients to use caution as mpox breakthrough cases rise
A San Diego gastroenterologist is sounding the alarm about a rise in mpox cases and is urging patients who’ve been vaccinated against the illness to still use caution after seeing breakthrough cases.
Yeh, I wonder how they got the mpox after the vaccine...
helen
Panic Sex Lady
Generally, articles about mpox clade I are showing up in clusters across different news platforms. You can see basically the same articles posted within the same hour from small and major news sites.
At the same time, articles about mpox infections in the U.S. are not differentiating between clade 2b and clade I.
The most common vector demographic that spread clade 2b around the world is not necessarily going to realize the difference.
Fomites. That's why I care.
At the same time, articles about mpox infections in the U.S. are not differentiating between clade 2b and clade I.
The most common vector demographic that spread clade 2b around the world is not necessarily going to realize the difference.
Fomites. That's why I care.
phloydius
Veteran Member
This.
desertvet2
Veteran Member
Fomites and vectors.
Yes ma'am, scary indeed.
Layman's terms and all that jazz, just in depth enough for grunts to grasp the concepts, but when I was trained on NBC type stuff....
It was eye opening.
The world has always been a scary place for those who know things.
GOD BLESS YOU HELEN
Yes ma'am, scary indeed.
Layman's terms and all that jazz, just in depth enough for grunts to grasp the concepts, but when I was trained on NBC type stuff....
It was eye opening.
The world has always been a scary place for those who know things.
GOD BLESS YOU HELEN
Posted for fair use.......
www.americanthinker.com
December 8, 2023
Monkeypox is back, only this time it has a new variant that kills 10% of the people who get it. Currently, the disease is still in Africa, but that can change. For that reason, it’s time (again) that we talk about the problem of promiscuity among gay men, since they were monkeypox’s primary vector in 2022.
One of the biggest topics in the 1980s was AIDS, a sexually transmitted disease killing gay men. It got them because of their lifestyle choices.
Back in 1981, while I was in college, I worked as a secretary for two virologists who were on the frontline of research into the constellation of diseases that eventually coalesced into the single diagnosis of AIDS. That’s when I learned about gay men’s nights of unbridled licentiousness when they had sex with dozens of anonymous partners, something made possible with lots of drugs.
In San Francisco, Ground Zero for these orgies was the bathhouses. I won’t go into the details of what happened in those bathhouses, but Joseph Sciambra, a born-ago Catholic, has written graphically about what gay orgies were like during the 1980s and 1990s when gays stopped being so afraid and went back to their old ways. Be warned: It’s stomach-churning stuff. You can also get a sense of the debauchery by looking at Zombie’s 2015 photo essay about the Up Your Alley Fair in San Francisco, which is, quite literally, a street orgy.
After a prolonged legal battle, combined with the bathhouses losing customers to death and fear, the era of the bathhouse ended. However, the orgies continued in homes and clubs.
The reality is that women temper men’s sex drives. Women not only have lower sex drives, but they’re also biologically programmed to demand an emotional connection in exchange for sex. Only in that way can they tie a man to any resulting progeny. Also, women are more vulnerable to garden-variety sexually transmitted diseases, which can leave them infertile, give them cancer, or infect their babies during pregnancy. Purely male relationships have no such brakes.
Naturally, the rising leftist movement within the once working-class Democrat party couldn’t acknowledge the fact that AIDS was primarily a gay disease in America. Certainly, in Africa, it struck everyone, but that was driven in significant part by the fact that African men (a) were too often unconstrained by monogamy and (b) their sexual practices were more likely to leave the woman bleeding—and blood plus semen equals the spread of AIDS. Michael Fumento wrote extensively about the pressure to make AIDS seem like a threat to everyone rather than the result of poor lifestyle choices.
After AIDS became treatable, it vanished from the headlines. However, in Spring 2022, a new gay-related sexually transmitted disease—monkeypox—popped up. Monkeypox is variola, like smallpox and, in its 2022 iteration, it was mild, giving people a really nasty rash that blisters, fevers, swollen glands, etc.
Some people, though, noted that monkeypox was mostly confined to the gay community. Indeed, it started its spread at a gay pride festival in Gran Canary. Gays, who had resumed their orgies after AIDS, were spreading it. It was anathema to suggest that they might rein in their behavior. Instead, gay men were told that they should freely continue engaging in sexual activity as before. We were also told that the disease shouldn’t even be called monkeypox because that stigmatized gay men and blacks.
Well, it’s 2023, and maybe people should start thinking seriously about the virtues of both sexual restraint and stigmas. That’s because monkeypox is apparently back and badder than ever:
There is a vaccine available. Given that monkeypox is a variola, it’s probable that the vaccine is like the smallpox or chicken pox vaccines people have taken for centuries and decades, respectively. A few people will react badly, but most will be spared the scourge of a deadly disease. Sadly, though, it’s hard today to trust “the science” when it comes to vaccines.
15 Comments
Monkeypox is back, this time with enhanced lethality
Monkeypox is back, only this time it has a new variant that kills 10% of the people who get it. Currently, the disease is still in Africa, but that can change. For that reason, it’s time (again) that we talk about the problem of promiscuity amo...
December 8, 2023
Monkeypox is back, this time with enhanced lethality
By Andrea WidburgMonkeypox is back, only this time it has a new variant that kills 10% of the people who get it. Currently, the disease is still in Africa, but that can change. For that reason, it’s time (again) that we talk about the problem of promiscuity among gay men, since they were monkeypox’s primary vector in 2022.
One of the biggest topics in the 1980s was AIDS, a sexually transmitted disease killing gay men. It got them because of their lifestyle choices.
Back in 1981, while I was in college, I worked as a secretary for two virologists who were on the frontline of research into the constellation of diseases that eventually coalesced into the single diagnosis of AIDS. That’s when I learned about gay men’s nights of unbridled licentiousness when they had sex with dozens of anonymous partners, something made possible with lots of drugs.
In San Francisco, Ground Zero for these orgies was the bathhouses. I won’t go into the details of what happened in those bathhouses, but Joseph Sciambra, a born-ago Catholic, has written graphically about what gay orgies were like during the 1980s and 1990s when gays stopped being so afraid and went back to their old ways. Be warned: It’s stomach-churning stuff. You can also get a sense of the debauchery by looking at Zombie’s 2015 photo essay about the Up Your Alley Fair in San Francisco, which is, quite literally, a street orgy.
After a prolonged legal battle, combined with the bathhouses losing customers to death and fear, the era of the bathhouse ended. However, the orgies continued in homes and clubs.
The reality is that women temper men’s sex drives. Women not only have lower sex drives, but they’re also biologically programmed to demand an emotional connection in exchange for sex. Only in that way can they tie a man to any resulting progeny. Also, women are more vulnerable to garden-variety sexually transmitted diseases, which can leave them infertile, give them cancer, or infect their babies during pregnancy. Purely male relationships have no such brakes.
Naturally, the rising leftist movement within the once working-class Democrat party couldn’t acknowledge the fact that AIDS was primarily a gay disease in America. Certainly, in Africa, it struck everyone, but that was driven in significant part by the fact that African men (a) were too often unconstrained by monogamy and (b) their sexual practices were more likely to leave the woman bleeding—and blood plus semen equals the spread of AIDS. Michael Fumento wrote extensively about the pressure to make AIDS seem like a threat to everyone rather than the result of poor lifestyle choices.
After AIDS became treatable, it vanished from the headlines. However, in Spring 2022, a new gay-related sexually transmitted disease—monkeypox—popped up. Monkeypox is variola, like smallpox and, in its 2022 iteration, it was mild, giving people a really nasty rash that blisters, fevers, swollen glands, etc.
Some people, though, noted that monkeypox was mostly confined to the gay community. Indeed, it started its spread at a gay pride festival in Gran Canary. Gays, who had resumed their orgies after AIDS, were spreading it. It was anathema to suggest that they might rein in their behavior. Instead, gay men were told that they should freely continue engaging in sexual activity as before. We were also told that the disease shouldn’t even be called monkeypox because that stigmatized gay men and blacks.
Well, it’s 2023, and maybe people should start thinking seriously about the virtues of both sexual restraint and stigmas. That’s because monkeypox is apparently back and badder than ever:
This more lethal variant is still confined to Africa (the Democratic Republic of Congo), but that doesn’t mean it won’t arrive here. Like AIDS and the initial monkeypox variant, it spreads through sexual or bodily fluid contact.
A deadly, fast-spreading strain of the monkeypox virus has the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention on high alert.
The variant of the virus, which causes the severe disease known as mpox, kills up to 10% of the people who are infected, according to the World Health Organization.
There is a vaccine available. Given that monkeypox is a variola, it’s probable that the vaccine is like the smallpox or chicken pox vaccines people have taken for centuries and decades, respectively. A few people will react badly, but most will be spared the scourge of a deadly disease. Sadly, though, it’s hard today to trust “the science” when it comes to vaccines.
15 Comments
night driver
ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
Writer needs to re-examine their biases.
Monkeypox is an ORTHOPOX Virus. Variola (Smallpox) is an Orthopox virus, monkeypox is NOT A VARIOLA virus.
Orthopox includes variola and other viri. The relationship goes from Orthopox to variola not from variola UP to Orthopoxes.
This is the first time I have caught Andrea Widburg being stupid and unreasonably biased.
Monkeypox is an ORTHOPOX Virus. Variola (Smallpox) is an Orthopox virus, monkeypox is NOT A VARIOLA virus.
Orthopox includes variola and other viri. The relationship goes from Orthopox to variola not from variola UP to Orthopoxes.
This is the first time I have caught Andrea Widburg being stupid and unreasonably biased.
Assuming she wrote it.....