truthseeker
Membership Revoked
I would like to see photo's to see if its as bad as Jack says. I think this is a ploy to get extra FEMA money.
Tweakette
Irrelevant
Too bad they can't get the names of those who trashed the place and then not let them on the buses next time. And there WILL be a next time.
F' em - if they're pigs, let them float the next time NOLA gets flooded.
And while I'm sorry that all New Orleanians are getting a bad rap from the few, what are the people in the refugee-receiving areas to do? How can they separate the bad from the good and preserve their own property? They can't, so they end up not taking any refugees.
More instance like these (if they are accurate) and even the good people of NOLA aren't going to have anywhere to go as no one will want them or let them in.
Tweak
F' em - if they're pigs, let them float the next time NOLA gets flooded.
And while I'm sorry that all New Orleanians are getting a bad rap from the few, what are the people in the refugee-receiving areas to do? How can they separate the bad from the good and preserve their own property? They can't, so they end up not taking any refugees.
More instance like these (if they are accurate) and even the good people of NOLA aren't going to have anywhere to go as no one will want them or let them in.
Tweak
Barry Natchitoches
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Summerthyme (and others),
While answering Addison Rose's post, I noticed it was time to go let the chickens out of their pen. We let them free range the last hour or two before the sun goes down, and that way they go to bed happy and contented, and we get healthier eggs.
While I was out there, I got to thinking about normal chicken behavior.
Summerthyme already knows this, but for those of you who don't know, chickens routinely establish a "pecking order" from the biggest and baddest chicken down to the most fragile and frightened chicken. And it is not uncommon, if a chicken is injured and begins to bleed, for the other chickens to gang up on the weak and injured chicken -- oftentimes pecking the weak chicken even to death.
I lost a beautiful buff orpington a few weeks back this way. Somehow she injured herself into bleeding, and before me or my wife found her, the other chickens had pecked her so badly that we had to put the beautiful little chicken down. It was heartbreaking.
But I have seen this same behavior so many times in human behavior as well. Somebody has to be on the bottom of the pecking order, and then most of the rest of the humans "peck" at the person or group that is forced to the bottom -- be it with insults, false accusations or fists -- over and over and over again.
Fat people -- especially fat females -- are often mistreated in this manner.
Minorities are sometimes treated in this manner.
And, in the years following Katrina, New Orleanians have been weakened and are all too frequently "picked on" by folks who consider themselves higher in the pecking order than New Orleanians.
If Addison Rose or Firestoprs made their accusations about a group that was higher up the pecking order, I would be more inclined to believe their accounts without any hesitation or reservation. And the reason for this is NOT because they would be complaining about somebody other than my former neighbors. It is because I know that to publicly register such accusations against a "popular" group takes alot of guts and usually means the problem was particularly bad. We tend to tolerate alot more from those we consider to be the "in group" or the "popular" than those we consider to be beneath us.
But when I see such complaints registered against any group that is currently "bottom of the pecking order," I routinely hesitate to accept the account at face value, because I know how easy it is for many folks to exaggerate the problem when accusing those who they perceive as being weak or other wise "bottom of the pecking order."
The more I think about it, the similarities between human behavior and the behavior of chickens is strikingly similar, IMHO....
While answering Addison Rose's post, I noticed it was time to go let the chickens out of their pen. We let them free range the last hour or two before the sun goes down, and that way they go to bed happy and contented, and we get healthier eggs.
While I was out there, I got to thinking about normal chicken behavior.
Summerthyme already knows this, but for those of you who don't know, chickens routinely establish a "pecking order" from the biggest and baddest chicken down to the most fragile and frightened chicken. And it is not uncommon, if a chicken is injured and begins to bleed, for the other chickens to gang up on the weak and injured chicken -- oftentimes pecking the weak chicken even to death.
I lost a beautiful buff orpington a few weeks back this way. Somehow she injured herself into bleeding, and before me or my wife found her, the other chickens had pecked her so badly that we had to put the beautiful little chicken down. It was heartbreaking.
But I have seen this same behavior so many times in human behavior as well. Somebody has to be on the bottom of the pecking order, and then most of the rest of the humans "peck" at the person or group that is forced to the bottom -- be it with insults, false accusations or fists -- over and over and over again.
Fat people -- especially fat females -- are often mistreated in this manner.
Minorities are sometimes treated in this manner.
And, in the years following Katrina, New Orleanians have been weakened and are all too frequently "picked on" by folks who consider themselves higher in the pecking order than New Orleanians.
If Addison Rose or Firestoprs made their accusations about a group that was higher up the pecking order, I would be more inclined to believe their accounts without any hesitation or reservation. And the reason for this is NOT because they would be complaining about somebody other than my former neighbors. It is because I know that to publicly register such accusations against a "popular" group takes alot of guts and usually means the problem was particularly bad. We tend to tolerate alot more from those we consider to be the "in group" or the "popular" than those we consider to be beneath us.
But when I see such complaints registered against any group that is currently "bottom of the pecking order," I routinely hesitate to accept the account at face value, because I know how easy it is for many folks to exaggerate the problem when accusing those who they perceive as being weak or other wise "bottom of the pecking order."
The more I think about it, the similarities between human behavior and the behavior of chickens is strikingly similar, IMHO....
Barry Natchitoches
Has No Life - Lives on TB
I have seen this happen a few times over the years in shelters I have worked at, but most do not do this. I have spent many hours cleaning after shelter residents myself. And these are folks in all parts of the country, at least those parts of the country I have worked at. (For the most part, I have had little opportunity to work west of the Mississippi River).
dberszerker
Veteran Member
The murder rate went up 25% in Houston, no false statement here, the hotels were gutted, grocery stores robbed,and local gyms were destoyed, my highschool was one of them, not to mention that , but then Rita hit us, and it made it all the worse. The welfare loving you owe me something crowd still hasnt left town, just stuck to the floor like an oil spot you cant wipe up, ugly way to put it, but like them I dont give a shit. I speak from my own personal experiance. I know that not all the Katrina evac's were like this, but the inhumanity of the situation just minimizes that fact.
dberszerker
Veteran Member
The crips didnt learn to play nice in school, and locals weren't prepared to baby sit these people, some were worse than animals.
Barry Natchitoches
Has No Life - Lives on TB
I obviously do not know how accurate these two reports really are.
But review my post #40 to see why I am hesitant to accept them at face value without some sort of substantiation from an independent, objective second source....
Barry,
You are excusing BAD human behavior with chickens and first-hand reports from members as unbelievable, with news stories to back them up.
And you yourself posted the very same thing in 2 current threads.
Are you kidding me?
No one here has picked or pecked on New Orleanians, only the freaks without a conscience that live within New Orleans.
That's well, chickenshit, since you brought the chooks into it.
You are excusing BAD human behavior with chickens and first-hand reports from members as unbelievable, with news stories to back them up.
And you yourself posted the very same thing in 2 current threads.
Are you kidding me?
No one here has picked or pecked on New Orleanians, only the freaks without a conscience that live within New Orleans.
That's well, chickenshit, since you brought the chooks into it.
Barry Natchitoches
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Unfortunately, that is true. It did happen. Houston ended up getting the bottom of the barrel, as far as Katrina refugees went.
Barry Natchitoches
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Twice now, you have said that I have made the same claims about shelter residents that are made here.
Please back up your claims, because I do not remember making any such claims about the residents being as bad as any claims found in THIS thread. Blankets stuffed in toilets? Conditions so bad that they warrant haz-mat teams at $25,000 bucks to clean up?
The shelters are pretty bad. Not just the ones that house New Orleanians, but those that house people in other parts of the country where I have worked as well. The shelters I worked in Homestead, FL, St. Louis, Missouri, Alton, Illiois and others were every bit as bad as the shelter I just worked this week for Gustav evacuees.
But bad as they are, they are not so bad as to warrant haz-mat response.
I have a hard time believing that any shelter gets THAT bad....
dberszerker
Veteran Member
Barry,
No disrespect intended, but It really doesn't matter if you believe what Ive posted, that doesn't mean its false, and I have no reason to lie. Its seems you stayed like the evacuees, and then left, so you have no idea the impact made on unsuspecting communities, but I sure as hell do. I have compassion for others, but there is no reason to let people treat you as badly as these folks have, and continue to do as they still havent left yet
AddisonRose
On loan from Heaven
Pecking Order? It was you who assumed that there was a 'pecking order'.
Nowhere, Barry, did you see me mention male, female, white, black, mulatto, yellow, red, purple, or age, or thin or fat or medium, rich, poor, middle-class, on welfare, off welfare, legal or illegal. This behavior and lack of respect for those helping these evacuee's out were the actions of some of those who evacuated, and clearly, not everyone, which you continue to throw a net over, lumping everyone together.
My friend owns a management company who reached out to Katrina evacuee's and it cost them thousands and thousands of dollars. These evacuee's took over apartment neighborhoods whose owners were willing to help these people get out of shelters and into more short term housing. The apartment owners were left with destruction and the neighborhoods with increased crime and squalor. Then you couldn't evict them when FEMA said enough and cut off the money supply, thanks to some lilly-livered judges here in town. Apartment owners lost even more money.
So no, Barry. It isn't about pecking order. It is about being pecked to death when you try to help someone and it clearly means nothing when your guests do not leave their surroundings better than when they arrived.
Makes you not want to help any more.
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Barry Natchitoches
Has No Life - Lives on TB
BTW,
As I understand it, the "news stories" you are referencing are just college officials grandstanding in front of the local cameras. I guess they could show one stopped up toilet and then show these "esteemed locals" making their outlandish claims, and use that as justification for 25K in hazmat cleanup money from FEMA, right? ....
dberszerker
Veteran Member
We still feel the economic impact, unfortunately these children were killing each other for the color of clothing they chose to wear that day. I just get a knot in my gut this time of year, the highway near my town is a evac route, and small towns will be plunderd......again, only it may be a bit of a different situation this time.
SugarMagnolia
Deceased
Hahahahaha!!
Last time we had the Katrina NOLA refugees here, they stayed for WEEKS.
They destroyed everywhere they stayed.
ONE TIME, some of their strong able bodied youths were asked to assist a little old white haired church lady moving a huge overfilled trash can up at the Civic Center shelter, and that's ALL the local NAACP chapter railed about for months afterwards.
"Y'all done made the po black folks do the dirty work, while all y'all lazy white people sat around!"
In reality, the little old white ladies had done ALL of the nasty work, cleaning the bathrooms, carrying garbage, everything terrible and disease ridden.
The refugees would have gotten our volunteers to wipe their asses, if they could.
It did indeed seem to be only the blacks that acted this way.
Whites and the few Mexicans that came in, showered, got a nap, and immediately dug in to help.
The blacks wanted to be waited on hand and foot, and nothing was good enough for them.
Huge home cooked yummy dinners were sampled and tossed, and they wanted McDonald's food instead.
This time, the town and churches had to beg for volunteers to take care of the ungrateful filthy swine.
Smart idea though, marking them with the plastic hospital style wrist bands this time, as you could spot them when they came into town to steal or panhandle.
Barry Natchitoches
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Barry,
No disrespect intended, but It really doesn't matter if you believe what Ive posted, that doesn't mean its false, and I have no reason to lie. Its seems you stayed like the evacuees, and then left, so you have no idea the impact made on unsuspecting communities, but I sure as hell do. I have compassion for others, but there is no reason to let people treat you as badly as these folks have, and continue to do as they still havent left yet
Huh?
Other than agree with you about the Katrina evacuees causing an upspike in Houston crime rates (which happens to be correct), I made no comment whatsoever about anything you wrote. I know that what you described did occur in some Houston neighborhoods after Katrina, but I didn't comment one way or another about that upsurge in crime here in this thread....
(Personally, I am very sorry it happened to you and your neighborhood...)
Barry Natchitoches
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Then please DO NOT.
Folks in need do not need to encounter attitude such as yours, EVEN IF it is based on a real and legitimate situation from past evacuations...
dberszerker
Veteran Member
I type slower than you, and I addressed your statements of disbelief in general, like I said though no offense intended.
AddisonRose
On loan from Heaven
I am sorry you don't understand Barry, and I do understand that you have not seen anything up close and personal like we in Texas have described. This isn't a personal attack Barry...just the facts. I am done here.
Shooting Star
Veteran Member
I am south of fred and we had about 1,300 in my little small town (3,000 population) - I hope to God they NEVER come here again - They almost completely destroyed the facility they were staying in - And yes, I know this for a fact. They had to call out a SWAT team because of the near rioting because they didn't get their food on time. The local Red Cross and volunteers were working their a$$es off to help these people and hardly a thank you. As soon as they got off the busses, some wanted to know where the closest meth house was. Some of the women were prostituting themselves in the bathrooms. I know it had to be a total shock for them in our little town (dry county).
We had similar circumstances as fred spoke of, stopping up the toilets, defecating all over the place - just pure nastiness.
We had similar circumstances as fred spoke of, stopping up the toilets, defecating all over the place - just pure nastiness.
Achilles
Infidel
And it is still continuing. Heck, about three weeks ago I arrested a "former Katrina evacuee" for:
1. auto theft,
2. evading in a motor vehicle,
3. fleeing on foot,
4. criminal mischief,
5. reckless damage,
6. felon with a firearm.
#1 happened a few minutes before I found him and #2-#6 happened within a span of a couple of minutes. People like this have no resepct for anything in NO, much less anywhere else.
Spirit Of Truth
Deceased
Reads like a bunch of rich southern debutantes upset that they had to put up some negro refugees for a week.
One's generosity should not be taken advantage of....but one must be very careful about seeking convenient excuses not to be generous, tolerant and begrudgingly sympathetic where and when there is need.
Then again....reading through some of the posts here....when one is being taken advantage of, send the miscreant on their merry way. It's sink or swim in survival times and those used to floatation devices will fair most poorly when there's no longer enough to go around.
One's generosity should not be taken advantage of....but one must be very careful about seeking convenient excuses not to be generous, tolerant and begrudgingly sympathetic where and when there is need.
Then again....reading through some of the posts here....when one is being taken advantage of, send the miscreant on their merry way. It's sink or swim in survival times and those used to floatation devices will fair most poorly when there's no longer enough to go around.
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Shooting Star
Veteran Member
I tell you what, the next storm that comes along, invite a few to your house since you are so generous - Let them nearly destroy your home - $hit in the floors, cuss you because they didn't get fed on time - It has nothing to do with race - It has everything to do with respect....
Shooting Star
Veteran Member
Furthermore, SOT, I don't know what part of the country you are from, but in the south when someone lends a helping hand and tries to be neighborly, we don't expect to draw back a nub....What is that saying - Fool me once shame on you - Fool me twice - shame on me.......
nharrold
Deceased
http://www.myfoxal.com/myfox/pages/...n=3&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=1.1.1
If anyone needs more, just go to any local news media on the evacuees, read the articles, and read the comments following them especially.
They all largely read just has been posted by our own members here (the reactions as well).
Shooting Star
Veteran Member
The only thing I can say to you nharrold, is that you think wrong - That is all the flaming you will get from me - I don't care what color the skin is (red, yellow, black or white). I won't lie to you though, does this leave a bitter taste in my mouth regarding blacks - yep, it sure does right at the moment. But if it had of been little green men, it would have left a bitter taste in my mouth as well....
Firestopr
Contributing Member
a few things first off i will admit i have no pics of the bathrooms
but i do have pics of the sewage water on the floors
second being this was a thread about trashed facilities i wrote what i did as fact if this where a thread about how strong the people of LA can be when facing adversity i could have wrote about that just as easily. hell once i rest a bit i will tell you the great story of how i bagged a pt for 2 hours while the fed goverment posed for photos with wheel chair pts
or i could tell ya about the 5 pt who died on the tar mac awaiting evac
purhaps i could tell you about the baptist church in zachery LA that opened there doors to the PA strike team and fed and housed us when we had no where else to stay.
how about how a group of refugies gave money to us to help pay for washing our clothes in a laundry mat.
this world is full of great people and also full of people who are lacking even the smallest bit of humanity.
on a side note i would like to add that every Redcross set up i came across was tops in my book while most of the goverment run things where no better then third world countries.
trust me i got to stay at both
i assure you i can tell the difference.
http://www.waaytv.com/Global/story.asp?S=8973403
ATHENS, Ala. (WAAY) - The cleanup from the last round of evacuees could take up to a week at one area college.
More than 350 people from Louisiana rode out Hurricane Gustav at the Athens campus of Calhoun Community College last week. Achool officials said it'll take at least another week to clean up and disinfect the gym that was used as the main shelter.
Officials say several of the evacuees had medical problems that require more cleaning than they expected. The Federal Emergency Management Agency is expected to reimburse Calhoun for the cost of the cleaning.
I don't care how you cut it. It's wrong.
ATHENS, Ala. (WAAY) - The cleanup from the last round of evacuees could take up to a week at one area college.
More than 350 people from Louisiana rode out Hurricane Gustav at the Athens campus of Calhoun Community College last week. Achool officials said it'll take at least another week to clean up and disinfect the gym that was used as the main shelter.
Officials say several of the evacuees had medical problems that require more cleaning than they expected. The Federal Emergency Management Agency is expected to reimburse Calhoun for the cost of the cleaning.
I don't care how you cut it. It's wrong.
Barry Natchitoches
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Barry Natchitoches
Has No Life - Lives on TB
I take it you work in law enforcement, Achilles.
I wonder, how many home grown Texans have you arrested this month with similarly extensive rap sheets?
Look, I know that Houston got more than its fair share of the scummy low life sector of the Katrina refugees. And I am sorry that you have had to endure the problems that these folks have created.
I jumped into this thread, however, because of the prevailing notion in early posts that the New Orleanians are so dirty that haz-mat teams have to come in behind them to clean up.
I worked in one of the shelters, and the conditions in that shelter were so dirty that I would never want my own family to be in one. BUT THEY WERE NOT SO DIRTY THAT IT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE TO DE-CONTAMINATE THE FACILITIES OR BRING IN HAZ-MAT TEAMS!
In fact, they were no dirtier than shelters I have worked in over the years in a number of different states.
Those are the accusations that I feel have been grossly overblown.
Have you watched the video that accompanies the story? The college rep was hardly grandstanding. There was, in fact, what appeared to be feces on the floor and blood on the wall.
These folks opened their facilities and donated their time and resources, and you come on here and call them liars.
Reevaluate your pecking analogy, sir. I think you'll find yourself wearing a sizable beak, yourself.
Spirit Of Truth
Deceased
It's a difficult decision to help out others. Sometimes you have to take care of even those who seem the least gracious and deserving. Love thy enemy is the epitome of this. But how else may your enemy learn the truth of God's love? Maybe your only reward is with our Creator, but that's fine in my book.
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Barry Natchitoches
Has No Life - Lives on TB
From the WMC-TV (channel 5) in Memphis website, requoted by SassyAZ:
Tenn. Will Not Assist Hurricane Ike Evacuees
State Must Clean Facilities, Rest Personnel After Gustav
POSTED: 12:53 pm CDT September 8, 2008
UPDATED: 10:24 pm CDT September 8, 2008
NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- The Tennessee Emergency Management Agency advised the Federal Emergency Management Agency that Tennessee will not be available to provide shelters to evacuees of Hurricane Ike.
The state is temporarily unavailable to perform mass shelter operations due to the need to recover and reconstitute shelter locations and personnel, TEMA said in a news release.
TEMA spokesman Jeremy Heidt said the state has to recover after recently sheltering more than 6,300 people from New Orleans during the evacuation for Hurricane Gustav.
Heidt said the state has to clean facilities, resupply equipment and rest activated personnel after 33 shelters were used statewide
Sassy,
I am NOT surprised by this. Locally, TEMA was stepping all over local EMA, and local EMA was stepping all over TEMA, and neither one of them had a clue what the other was doing, but BOTH wanted to be Top Dog.
I mentioned in the other threads that there were huge administrative problems that I have never seen before, and they ultimately originated with FEMA at its various levels, not within the Red Cross.
Well, I wasn't the only person to see this. When they began to debrief down at local EMA headquarters, that was clear for all to see.
So they did the best thing they could do under the circumstances: they told federal level FEMA don't send any more folks until they can get their own administrative act together.
I see this as a healthy and positive response to a very bad situation that developed last week within emergency management ranks at all levels within this state.
As for the problems cleaning the shelters, Memphis/Shelby County is already so many millions of dollars in the hole budget wise this year that the city school system actually has a lawsuit on file against the city council, which has pulled 66 million dollars out of the city school system's budget.
Have you EVER heard of a city's public school system suing the city council before? Ever in your entire life?
That's how bad the budget problems are here in this city. They cannot afford to fund normal school, police, fire and other normal expenses. So they are holding out for FEMA to pay for the personnel to clean out the shelters. It's a budget thing. Not because the places need to be decontaminated or cleaned by a hazmat team or whatever.
Tenn. Will Not Assist Hurricane Ike Evacuees
State Must Clean Facilities, Rest Personnel After Gustav
POSTED: 12:53 pm CDT September 8, 2008
UPDATED: 10:24 pm CDT September 8, 2008
NASHVILLE, Tenn. -- The Tennessee Emergency Management Agency advised the Federal Emergency Management Agency that Tennessee will not be available to provide shelters to evacuees of Hurricane Ike.
The state is temporarily unavailable to perform mass shelter operations due to the need to recover and reconstitute shelter locations and personnel, TEMA said in a news release.
TEMA spokesman Jeremy Heidt said the state has to recover after recently sheltering more than 6,300 people from New Orleans during the evacuation for Hurricane Gustav.
Heidt said the state has to clean facilities, resupply equipment and rest activated personnel after 33 shelters were used statewide
Sassy,
I am NOT surprised by this. Locally, TEMA was stepping all over local EMA, and local EMA was stepping all over TEMA, and neither one of them had a clue what the other was doing, but BOTH wanted to be Top Dog.
I mentioned in the other threads that there were huge administrative problems that I have never seen before, and they ultimately originated with FEMA at its various levels, not within the Red Cross.
Well, I wasn't the only person to see this. When they began to debrief down at local EMA headquarters, that was clear for all to see.
So they did the best thing they could do under the circumstances: they told federal level FEMA don't send any more folks until they can get their own administrative act together.
I see this as a healthy and positive response to a very bad situation that developed last week within emergency management ranks at all levels within this state.
As for the problems cleaning the shelters, Memphis/Shelby County is already so many millions of dollars in the hole budget wise this year that the city school system actually has a lawsuit on file against the city council, which has pulled 66 million dollars out of the city school system's budget.
Have you EVER heard of a city's public school system suing the city council before? Ever in your entire life?
That's how bad the budget problems are here in this city. They cannot afford to fund normal school, police, fire and other normal expenses. So they are holding out for FEMA to pay for the personnel to clean out the shelters. It's a budget thing. Not because the places need to be decontaminated or cleaned by a hazmat team or whatever.
night driver
ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
Bodily fluids of ANY description require tyvek suits, SEALED at the wrist and ankle, booties and gloves, along with masks and eye shields.
They require fairly specific decon protocols.
NOT easily done by untrained folk... so 25K isn't that much to pay for the required clean up.
I too have cleaned up shelters and simply swept and mopped because that was all we needed to do.
They require fairly specific decon protocols.
NOT easily done by untrained folk... so 25K isn't that much to pay for the required clean up.
I too have cleaned up shelters and simply swept and mopped because that was all we needed to do.
