DISASTER China's Three Gorge Dam in Danger

DryCreek

Veteran Member
one use and dispose. just like anything i buy from harbor freight.
I've purchased some really good tools from them.
Their Earthquake 1/2" drive impact wrench has been flawless. I've never broken any of their lifetime guaranteed sockets either. I think they're the only place where you can buy a manual tire changer and bubble balancer these days too. I'd love to find some of the old Coats equipment, but that has all been snapped up by the people building mini-museums ever since the old filling station theme became popular. It just sits there - not being used.
 

DannyBoy

Veteran Member
Water downstream at 3GD is way down, I am guessing 6 to 8 feet... the hand rails are almost completely showing now and that little inlet is dried up. Looks actually like even more on the backside of the dam... over there it looks like 20 feet. Is that possible? I guess it depends on the slope of the river behind the dam. If the river slope is less now than earlier because of less flow I guess it is possible.
3gorgesdam 9-30-20-11am.JPG
 

TheSearcher

Are you sure about that?
The dam no longer matters. It is the flooding that has destroyed China. Famine stalks China now. From famine comes war. Imperialism and death are China's destiny now.
BUY FOOD NOW!!!!!!

That's the immediate concern, no disagreement. However, if that damn does ever fail, it will make things much, much worse. As such, status of the dam still matters, though it looks like there is some reprieve from the pressure.
 

DannyBoy

Veteran Member
That's the immediate concern, no disagreement. However, if that damn does ever fail, it will make things much, much worse. As such, status of the dam still matters, though it looks like there is some reprieve from the pressure.
Agree that status still matters... or I would not be wasting time checking on the dam (although I have always been interested in water flow LOL) however, I am thinking there is no reprieve at this point... check out the level changing...

I think the discussion below explains a lot... this is from a discussion of an anon with BDanon... I could not figure out why the flow seems so low, and the water level is dropping. This says that the issue is vibration from the turbines themselves. Evidently 30000 cubic meters per second is the point where that began, so they are keeping the flow down below that. What low flow is causing is the level to rise very quickly... up to 165 meters right now. Why don't they open the flood gates? Likely because they are causing an issue also... at some point they will have to open them... read below... this is from BDanon posts.

9/29/20(Tue)20:17
279920096

However, while tectonic activity seems like a potential point of failure, it's worth evaluating other possibilities. Those being silt buildup and the inability to drop to 145.
There's the potential turbine clogging issue as well which might cause cascade failures.
Finally is the up and down outflow on the dam, it might just be flushing the dam like a 2 mile long toilet, but as one engineeranon noted, there is also the (high) possibility of cavitation causing a long wavelength vibration through the dam. That vibration has just started recently (and might just be flushing from the recent silt armageddon) but if it keeps up, it might amplify and precipitate the collapse. You can see that the first vibrations happened at above 30,000 on sept 3rd and they haven't brought the outflow above there since, even as the surge intensifies and the water rises (which means less turbine outflow). We're now into the third recurrence of this (if you count the 1 day vibration on the 3rd of september). It is highly likely that this vibration is indicative of major problems to the dam, since you need to be pretty desperate to send out fleets of rakerboats to try and mitigate the problems while also fleeting over a bunch of military vehicles (honestly, I suspect they might be engineers, since the S300s have been stationed there since forever).

(2/2)

Great points and points to this really being a mess. I wonder why this thing was even built? Cannot see where it has really helped much and is a real liability in the event of a major war. Guess they have their reasons. Would bet if they went after Taiwan the dam would be in real danger.

3gd flow chart 10-1-20.JPG

By the way, very foggy there right now. not much to see at like 9:30 am.
 

DannyBoy

Veteran Member
Hydro power and bragging rights.
Yes... An anon had a discussion on that also. turns out it started with a poem written by Mao. The idea was later killed by him, but then brought back up years later as a way for the CCP to unite the country after Tienanmen Square, etc. The problem is, once the CCP had decided it was a wonderful idea, no one had the guts to say it was stupid!

And just for the record... here is the latest condition... fog is gone, light show is happening, water is lower downstream now than yesterday, water is coming out of the little creek on the left by the handrails... you can see the flow in the live video. Oh, and the water level is now up to like 167 meters.

3gorgesdam 10-2-21-53pm.JPG
 

bw

Fringe Ranger
Dam operators are not able to increase outflow due to downstream flooding.

It's possible they are under orders, but if the dam is at risk of failure and they don't increase the flow, then they're lying about the reason. Downstream is already flooded.
 

DannyBoy

Veteran Member
Yeah, at this point, I am beginning to feel BD anon is more legit... it is pretty obvious that they are indeed keeping the turbine flow under 30000 cubic meters per second. Along with not using the flood gates. That is making the reservoir fill up! I would think 172 is getting close to maxing it out. Let us watch if they open the flood gates or let the turbines run up to higher flow. Note also that the turbine water flowing a bit, the hand rail is going back under water.Capture2.JPG

Capture.JPG
 

TheSearcher

Are you sure about that?
It's possible they are under orders, but if the dam is at risk of failure and they don't increase the flow, then they're lying about the reason. Downstream is already flooded.

Any way you slice it, it sucks bigly.
 

DryCreek

Veteran Member
It's possible they are under orders, but if the dam is at risk of failure and they don't increase the flow, then they're lying about the reason. Downstream is already flooded.
Let's see, it is a government-run operation. What could possibly go wrong?
 

Oreally

Right from the start
so here we are. probably the authorities are screaming their heads off to stop the flow going downstream and pulling all their political muscle to make it stick,

and the rainy seasons there just about here, but the rate of rise is pretty step ...

this is going to be a real nail biter.
 

Squid

Veteran Member
so here we are. probably the authorities are screaming their heads off to stop the flow going downstream and pulling all their political muscle to make it stick,

and the rainy seasons there just about here, but the rate of rise is pretty step ...

this is going to be a real nail biter.
There are more unknowns than knowns.

The water level on the discharge side looks way down from video’s. The cities downstream are much more important than upstream so if they have to save cities its Wuhan and downstream.

The strange unknown is why not relieve some of the upstream and also stress on the dam itself? Unless there are unseen problems. With the sheer volume of water and just plain old debris what is the condition of the gates, the gate mechanisms and the turbines? Is there damage beneath the dam from water flow turbulence. Or is it the age old problem of some high yuckety yuck making orders from Beijing with no understanding of the actual circumstances or risks.

It would be sad if the dam overtopped damaging all those cranes that are needed I assume open and close things because of orders from the big cheese dufus. And then another batch if rain fell.
 

Countrymouse

Country exile in the city
Are they holding off opening the flood-gates again because:

1. They don't WANT to (or are ordered NOT to) cause worse flooding for cities downstream?
2. They CAN'T open the floodgates any more due to damage from debris?
3. They don't DARE to, because cavitation under the dam is already at a critical point?

Pick your poison.....
 

Squid

Veteran Member
Can't happen. The upper spillways are lower than the level of the top deck and the cranes.

Good point but is there a incoming flow that exceeds the capacity of the upper spillways?
And are there any restrictions or flow limiters on upper spillways or are they just an open hole?
 

DryCreek

Veteran Member
Good point but is there a incoming flow that exceeds the capacity of the upper spillways?
And are there any restrictions or flow limiters on upper spillways or are they just an open hole?
Very wide sluice. It acts as a weir.
 

DannyBoy

Veteran Member
Note that the inflow and outflow are about equal... that is why the level curve is tapering off to a flat point... looks like they are going to try 25000 cubic meters per second for a while.3gd3.jpg


By the way, I am going with choice 3 for now CM...
The flood gate design should include a way to deal with debris. Note the word "should".
 

Wildweasel

F-4 Phantoms Phorever
I saw something interesting that said the turbines are running at reduced flow rates because of vibrations at higher flows. Additionally the floodgates are not being used because of concerns about vibrations.

Wonder why the concerns about vibrations?

Well, there was a report of THREE 10-meter long, vertical cracks found in the downstream face of the dam. No indications about how wide or deep the cracks are. Supposedly the cracks began forming during the summer during the peak to the flooding and have grown ever since.

Sounds like the dam has started opening up, with the hinge points and the opening seam revealing themselves. No photos, but it was said the reason the camera views have been restricted is to hide repair attempts.

Again, no photos of the cracks or indication of where on the dam they're located, but my first guess would be on the left side of the dam, where western observers saw and reported shoddy concrete and steel work.

2020 still has over two months left and as we have learned about 2020, things can still get worse.
 

bw

Fringe Ranger
I saw something interesting that said the turbines are running at reduced flow rates because of vibrations at higher flows. Additionally the floodgates are not being used because of concerns about vibrations.

Wonder why the concerns about vibrations?

It's like metal fatigue. They were beating the heck out of it for months, and anything with the least flexibility was flexing like mad. So it gets more flexible over time. Like Galloping Gertie, given the right stress, it could collapse. If they're reducing flow because of vibrations, then they aren't concerned but terrified.
 

The Snack Artist

Membership Revoked
It's like metal fatigue. They were beating the heck out of it for months, and anything with the least flexibility was flexing like mad. So it gets more flexible over time. Like Galloping Gertie, given the right stress, it could collapse. If they're reducing flow because of vibrations, then they aren't concerned but terrified.
I've found the problem! (again) The dam is made in Jyna. That's a wrap!
 

Doomer Doug

TB Fanatic
whether the dam collapses at this point is almost a nothing burger. I am seeing multiple stories that China is in serious food shortage mode. Any country, like China, that now measures the size of portions on restaurant plates is in DEEP do do. Second, steel and concrete are subject to vibration damage, physical stress, and water damage.
The dam has been getting pounded for months now and that has to have weakened its structural integrity. However, China is short of food, and don't forget the FREAKING LOCUST HORDES TO BOOT.
I heard the Chinese total rice crop was SIGNIFICANTLY smaller than last year. China lacks young women which means its military will be horny, and they may have food issues, so they could be hungry, although smart tyrants always make damn sure the military gets fed first.
So much crap going on, I need a suction pump. :poop:
 

OldArcher

Has No Life - Lives on TB
The 3GD is now undergoing repairs, and the immanent danger of collapse, vis-a-vis that wanker BDAnon, is no longer in the offing. Time to move on to other topics of doom and gloom- like the Election, and all of our allies under the gun from China...

OldArcher
 

Wargus

Mildly off
The 3GD is now undergoing repairs, and the immanent danger of collapse, vis-a-vis that wanker BDAnon, is no longer in the offing. Time to move on to other topics of doom and gloom- like the Election, and all of our allies under the gun from China...

OldArcher
Information source for report of repairs?
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
What people often fail to realize (I heard this said after Oroville) is that a disaster averted and/or delayed is not the same thing as a disaster that did not almost take place.

Sometimes, like in Oroville a combination of good luck and quick action averts disaster, sometimes as with the Dam in China, just plain dumb luck and maybe slightly better building construction than even the designer thought (when he "died suddenly" a few months ago).

Or, it may be, as many engineers have suggested, they have gotten through "round one," but the race to repair things may or may not work, and may or may not be enough.

So the dam may last 700 more years or we may be reading in 7 weeks, months, or years that it has collapsed and taken half of China's industrial base with it.

It bothers me not at all when a predicted disaster does not occur for various reasons (possibly including prayer or intention experiments, I saw millions of people listening to Art Bell pray and "move" the hurricane that was supposed to have hit where Katrina did only by morning it hit a few sugarcane fields, Katrina would happen later).

It bothers me a lot when people start laughing, joking, or making fun of those who were worried about the projected disaster and/or reporting on it as if they were fools to be worried.

There were hundreds of people (including Engineers) who had concerns (from engineers using modeling to psychics and visionariess) who were concerned about The Challenger and they launched it anyway.

If the weather had warmer just a couple of degrees, they would all have looked like fools but seven people would still be alive; however another crew, the next Winter might have died instead because (like the Three Gorges Dam) the design was flawed or at least not able to handle certain types of conditions.

Sheer luck might have made it through the entire shuttle program with no one knowing if it had never been launched below 32 degrees F, but it was.

The Three Gorges Dam may have survived this time, but if the problems can't be fixed, it may not be as lucky the next time there are mega-floods, which happen naturally ever few hundred years (we know that from watermarks) and that is without the changes caused by the creation of dams and other industry themselves.
 

Troke

On TB every waking moment
The 3GD is now undergoing repairs, and the immanent danger of collapse, vis-a-vis that wanker BDAnon, is no longer in the offing. Time to move on to other topics of doom and gloom- like the Election, and all of our allies under the gun from China...

OldArcher
Well, there was some talk that the Chinese were going to start starving if not day after tomorrow, most certainly next week because of the floods devastating their farmland. Do real China watchers have an opinion on that?
 
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