ALERT RUSSIA INVADES UKRAINE - Consolidated Thread

db cooper

Resident Secret Squirrel
I wonder what total number of US troops in eastern europe will be the trigger for Xi to move on taiwan.
You have an interesting point there. I do not think we are capable of fighting a two front war, things are just too fast happening today for the slow buildup that led to WWII's victory on two major fronts. But we do have nukes, the question is, will they be used. What I see here is just one more opportunity for a nuclear war. The other being Russia, where they would be pushed into a corner in eastern Europe.

No one will survive a nuclear war. Not even those hiding in deep highly fortified and supplied bunkers. For they will have nothing to come out to, no armies to command, no population to control - NOTHING.
 
The Return of Industrial Warfare
Alex Vershinin
17 June 20229 Minute Read
Share


1656432409088.jpeg1656432409088.jpeg
bublik_polina / Adobe Stock

Can the West still provide the arsenal of democracy?

The war in Ukraine has proven that the age of industrial warfare is still here. The massive consumption of equipment, vehicles and ammunition requires a large-scale industrial base for resupply – quantity still has a quality of its own. The mass scale combat has pitted 250,000 Ukrainian soldiers, together with 450,000 recently mobilised citizen soldiers against about 200,000 Russian and separatist troops. The effort to arm, feed and supply these armies is a monumental task. Ammunition resupply is particularly onerous. For Ukraine, compounding this task are Russian deep fires capabilities, which target Ukrainian military industry and transportation networks throughout the depth of the country. The Russian army has also suffered from Ukrainian cross-border attacks and acts of sabotage, but at a smaller scale. The rate of ammunition and equipment consumption in Ukraine can only be sustained by a large-scale industrial base.

This reality should be a concrete warning to Western countries, who have scaled down military industrial capacity and sacrificed scale and effectiveness for efficiency. This strategy relies on flawed assumptions about the future of war, and has been influenced by both the bureaucratic culture in Western governments and the legacy of low-intensity conflicts. Currently, the West may not have the industrial capacity to fight a large-scale war. If the US government is planning to once again become the arsenal of democracy, then the existing capabilities of the US military-industrial base and the core assumptions that have driven its development need to be re-examined.

Estimating Ammo Consumption
There is no exact ammunition consumption data available for the Russia–Ukraine conflict. Neither government publishes data, but an estimate of Russian ammunition consumption can be calculated using the official fire missions data provided by the Russian Ministry of Defense during its daily briefing.
Number of Russian Daily Fire Missions, 19–31 May
1656432883177.png
Although these numbers mix tactical rockets with conventional, hard-shell artillery, it is not unreasonable to assume that a third of these missions were fired by rocket troops because they form a third of a motorised rifle brigade’s artillery force, with two other battalions being tube artillery. This suggests 390 daily missions fired by tube artillery. Each tube artillery strike is conducted by a battery of six guns total. However, combat and maintenance breakdowns are likely to reduce this number to four. With four guns per battery and four rounds per gun, the tube artillery fires about 6,240 rounds per day. We can estimate an additional 15% wastage for rounds that were set on the ground but abandoned when the battery moved in a hurry, rounds destroyed by Ukrainian strikes on ammunition dumps, or rounds fired but not reported to higher command levels. This number comes up to 7,176 artillery rounds a day. It should be noted that the Russian Ministry of Defense only reports fire missions by forces of the Russian Federation. These do not include formations from the Donetsk and Luhansk separatist republics, which are treated as different countries. The numbers are not perfect, but even if they are off by 50%, it still does not change the overall logistics challenge.

The Capacity of the West’s Industrial Base
The winner in a prolonged war between two near-peer powers is still based on which side has the strongest industrial base. A country must either have the manufacturing capacity to build massive quantities of ammunition or have other manufacturing industries that can be rapidly converted to ammunition production. Unfortunately, the West no longer seems to have either.

Presently, the US is decreasing its artillery ammunition stockpiles. In 2020, artillery ammunition purchases decreased by 36% to $425 million. In 2022, the plan is to reduce expenditure on 155mm artillery rounds to $174 million. This is equivalent to 75,357 M795 basic ‘dumb’ rounds for regular artillery, 1,400 XM1113 rounds for the M777, and 1,046 XM1113 rounds for Extended Round Artillery Cannons. Finally, there are $75 million dedicated for Excalibur precision-guided munitions that costs $176K per round, thus totaling 426 rounds. In short, US annual artillery production would at best only last for 10 days to two weeks of combat in Ukraine. If the initial estimate of Russian shells fired is over by 50%, it would only extend the artillery supplied for three weeks.

The US is not the only country facing this challenge. In a recent war game involving US, UK and French forces, UK forces exhausted national stockpiles of critical ammunition after eight days.

Unfortunately, this is not only the case with artillery. Anti-tank Javelins and air-defence Stingers are in the same boat. The US shipped 7,000 Javelin missiles to Ukraine – roughly one-third of its stockpile – with more shipments to come. Lockheed Martin produces about 2,100 missiles a year, though this number might ramp up to 4,000 in a few years. Ukraine claims to use 500 Javelin missiles every day.

The expenditure of cruise missiles and theater ballistic missiles is just as massive. The Russians have fired between 1,100 and 2,100 missiles. The US currently purchases 110 PRISM, 500 JASSM and 60 Tomahawk cruise missiles annually, meaning that in three months of combat, Russia has burned through four times the US annual missile production. The Russian rate of production can only be estimated. Russia started missile production in 2015 in limited initial runs, and even in 2016 the production runs were estimated at 47 missiles. This means that it had only five to six years of full-scale production.
If competition between autocracies and democracies has really entered a military phase, then the arsenal of democracy must radically improve its approach to the production of materiel in wartime

The initial stockpile in February 2022 is unknown, but considering expenditures and the requirement to hold substantial stockpiles back in case of war with NATO, it is unlikely that the Russians are worried. In fact, they seem to have enough to expend operational-level cruise missiles on tactical targets. The assumption that there are 4,000 cruise and ballistic missiles in the Russian inventory is not unreasonable. This production will probably increase despite Western sanctions. In April, ODK Saturn, which makes Kalibr missile motors, announced an additional 500 job openings. This suggests that even in this field, the West only has parity with Russia.

Flawed Assumptions
The first key assumption about future of combat is that precision-guided weapons will reduce overall ammunition consumption by requiring only one round to destroy the target. The war in Ukraine is challenging this assumption. Many ‘dumb’ indirect fire systems are achieving a great deal of precision without precision guidance, and still the overall ammunition consumption is massive. Part of the issue is that the digitisation of global maps, combined with a massive proliferation of drones, allows geolocation and targeting with increased precision, with video evidence demonstrating the ability to score first strike hits by indirect fires.

The second crucial assumption is that industry can be turned on and off at will. This mode of thinking was imported from the business sector and has spread through US government culture. In the civilian sector, customers can increase or decrease their orders. The producer may be hurt by a drop in orders but rarely is that drop catastrophic because usually there are multiple consumers and losses can be spread among consumers. Unfortunately, this does not work for military purchases. There is only one customer in the US for artillery shells – the military. Once the orders drop off, the manufacturer must close production lines to cut costs to stay in business. Small businesses may close entirely. Generating new capacity is very challenging, especially as there is so little manufacturing capacity left to draw skilled workers from. This is especially challenging because many older armament production systems are labour intensive to the point where they are practically built by hand, and it takes a long time to train a new workforce. The supply chain issues are also problematic because subcomponents may be produced by a subcontractor who either goes out of business, with loss of orders or retools for other customers or who relies on parts from overseas, possibly from a hostile country.

China’s near monopoly on rare earth materials is an obvious challenge here. Stinger missile production will not be completed until 2026, in part due to component shortages. US reports on the defence industrial base have made it clear that ramping up production in war-time may be challenging, if not impossible, due to supply chain issues and a lack of trained personnel due to the degradation of the US manufacturing base.

Finally, there is an assumption about overall ammunition consumption rates. The US government has always lowballed this number. From the Vietnam era to today, small arms plants have shrunk from five to just one. This was glaring at the height of the Iraq war, when US started to run low on small arms ammunition, causing the US government to buy British and Israeli ammunition during the initial stage of the war. At one point, the US had to dip into Vietnam and even Second World War-era ammo stockpiles of .50 calibre ammunition to feed the war effort. This was largely the result of incorrect assumptions about how effective US troops would be. Indeed, the Government Accountability Office estimated that it took 250,000 rounds to kill one insurgent. Luckily for the US, its gun culture ensured that small arms ammunition industry has a civilian component in the US. This is not the case with other types of ammunition, as shown earlier with Javelin and Stinger missiles. Without access to government methodology, it is impossible to understand why US government estimates were off, but there is a risk that the same errors were made with other types of munitions.

Conclusion
The war in Ukraine demonstrates that war between peer or near-peer adversaries demands the existence of a technically advanced, mass scale, industrial-age production capability. The Russian onslaught consumes ammunition at rates that massively exceed US forecasts and ammunition production. For the US to act as the arsenal of democracy in defence of Ukraine, there must be a major look at the manner and the scale at which the US organises its industrial base. This situation is especially critical because behind the Russian invasion stands the world’s manufacturing capital – China. As the US begins to expend more and more of its stockpiles to keep Ukraine in the war, China has yet to provide any meaningful military assistance to Russia. The West must assume that China will not allow Russia to be defeated, especially due to a lack of ammunition. If competition between autocracies and democracies has really entered a military phase, then the arsenal of democracy must first radically improve its approach to the production of materiel in wartime.

The views expressed in this Commentary are the author’s, and do not represent those of RUSI or any other institution.
Have an idea for a Commentary you’d like to write for us? Send a short pitch to
commentaries@rusi.org and we’ll get back to you if it fits into our research interests. Full guidelines for contributors can be found here.


====
===
.
 
Last edited:

raven

TB Fanatic
The Return of Industrial Warfare
Alex Vershinin
17 June 20229 Minute Read
Share


View attachment 347195View attachment 347195
bublik_polina / Adobe Stock

Can the West still provide the arsenal of democracy?

The war in Ukraine has proven that the age of industrial warfare is still here. The massive consumption of equipment, vehicles and ammunition requires a large-scale industrial base for resupply – quantity still has a quality of its own. The mass scale combat has pitted 250,000 Ukrainian soldiers, together with 450,000 recently mobilised citizen soldiers against about 200,000 Russian and separatist troops. The effort to arm, feed and supply these armies is a monumental task. Ammunition resupply is particularly onerous. For Ukraine, compounding this task are Russian deep fires capabilities, which target Ukrainian military industry and transportation networks throughout the depth of the country. The Russian army has also suffered from Ukrainian cross-border attacks and acts of sabotage, but at a smaller scale. The rate of ammunition and equipment consumption in Ukraine can only be sustained by a large-scale industrial base.

This reality should be a concrete warning to Western countries, who have scaled down military industrial capacity and sacrificed scale and effectiveness for efficiency. This strategy relies on flawed assumptions about the future of war, and has been influenced by both the bureaucratic culture in Western governments and the legacy of low-intensity conflicts. Currently, the West may not have the industrial capacity to fight a large-scale war. If the US government is planning to once again become the arsenal of democracy, then the existing capabilities of the US military-industrial base and the core assumptions that have driven its development need to be re-examined.

Estimating Ammo Consumption
There is no exact ammunition consumption data available for the Russia–Ukraine conflict. Neither government publishes data, but an estimate of Russian ammunition consumption can be calculated using the official fire missions data provided by the Russian Ministry of Defense during its daily briefing.
Number of Russian Daily Fire Missions, 19–31 May
View attachment 347197
Although these numbers mix tactical rockets with conventional, hard-shell artillery, it is not unreasonable to assume that a third of these missions were fired by rocket troops because they form a third of a motorised rifle brigade’s artillery force, with two other battalions being tube artillery. This suggests 390 daily missions fired by tube artillery. Each tube artillery strike is conducted by a battery of six guns total. However, combat and maintenance breakdowns are likely to reduce this number to four. With four guns per battery and four rounds per gun, the tube artillery fires about 6,240 rounds per day. We can estimate an additional 15% wastage for rounds that were set on the ground but abandoned when the battery moved in a hurry, rounds destroyed by Ukrainian strikes on ammunition dumps, or rounds fired but not reported to higher command levels. This number comes up to 7,176 artillery rounds a day. It should be noted that the Russian Ministry of Defense only reports fire missions by forces of the Russian Federation. These do not include formations from the Donetsk and Luhansk separatist republics, which are treated as different countries. The numbers are not perfect, but even if they are off by 50%, it still does not change the overall logistics challenge.

The Capacity of the West’s Industrial Base
The winner in a prolonged war between two near-peer powers is still based on which side has the strongest industrial base. A country must either have the manufacturing capacity to build massive quantities of ammunition or have other manufacturing industries that can be rapidly converted to ammunition production. Unfortunately, the West no longer seems to have either.

Presently, the US is decreasing its artillery ammunition stockpiles. In 2020, artillery ammunition purchases decreased by 36% to $425 million. In 2022, the plan is to reduce expenditure on 155mm artillery rounds to $174 million. This is equivalent to 75,357 M795 basic ‘dumb’ rounds for regular artillery, 1,400 XM1113 rounds for the M777, and 1,046 XM1113 rounds for Extended Round Artillery Cannons. Finally, there are $75 million dedicated for Excalibur precision-guided munitions that costs $176K per round, thus totaling 426 rounds. In short, US annual artillery production would at best only last for 10 days to two weeks of combat in Ukraine. If the initial estimate of Russian shells fired is over by 50%, it would only extend the artillery supplied for three weeks.

The US is not the only country facing this challenge. In a recent war game involving US, UK and French forces, UK forces exhausted national stockpiles of critical ammunition after eight days.

Unfortunately, this is not only the case with artillery. Anti-tank Javelins and air-defence Stingers are in the same boat. The US shipped 7,000 Javelin missiles to Ukraine – roughly one-third of its stockpile – with more shipments to come. Lockheed Martin produces about 2,100 missiles a year, though this number might ramp up to 4,000 in a few years. Ukraine claims to use 500 Javelin missiles every day.

The expenditure of cruise missiles and theater ballistic missiles is just as massive. The Russians have fired between 1,100 and 2,100 missiles. The US currently purchases 110 PRISM, 500 JASSM and 60 Tomahawk cruise missiles annually, meaning that in three months of combat, Russia has burned through four times the US annual missile production. The Russian rate of production can only be estimated. Russia started missile production in 2015 in limited initial runs, and even in 2016 the production runs were estimated at 47 missiles. This means that it had only five to six years of full-scale production.


The initial stockpile in February 2022 is unknown, but considering expenditures and the requirement to hold substantial stockpiles back in case of war with NATO, it is unlikely that the Russians are worried. In fact, they seem to have enough to expend operational-level cruise missiles on tactical targets. The assumption that there are 4,000 cruise and ballistic missiles in the Russian inventory is not unreasonable. This production will probably increase despite Western sanctions. In April, ODK Saturn, which makes Kalibr missile motors, announced an additional 500 job openings. This suggests that even in this field, the West only has parity with Russia.

Flawed Assumptions
The first key assumption about future of combat is that precision-guided weapons will reduce overall ammunition consumption by requiring only one round to destroy the target. The war in Ukraine is challenging this assumption. Many ‘dumb’ indirect fire systems are achieving a great deal of precision without precision guidance, and still the overall ammunition consumption is massive. Part of the issue is that the digitisation of global maps, combined with a massive proliferation of drones, allows geolocation and targeting with increased precision, with video evidence demonstrating the ability to score first strike hits by indirect fires.

The second crucial assumption is that industry can be turned on and off at will. This mode of thinking was imported from the business sector and has spread through US government culture. In the civilian sector, customers can increase or decrease their orders. The producer may be hurt by a drop in orders but rarely is that drop catastrophic because usually there are multiple consumers and losses can be spread among consumers. Unfortunately, this does not work for military purchases. There is only one customer in the US for artillery shells – the military. Once the orders drop off, the manufacturer must close production lines to cut costs to stay in business. Small businesses may close entirely. Generating new capacity is very challenging, especially as there is so little manufacturing capacity left to draw skilled workers from. This is especially challenging because many older armament production systems are labour intensive to the point where they are practically built by hand, and it takes a long time to train a new workforce. The supply chain issues are also problematic because subcomponents may be produced by a subcontractor who either goes out of business, with loss of orders or retools for other customers or who relies on parts from overseas, possibly from a hostile country.

China’s near monopoly on rare earth materials is an obvious challenge here. Stinger missile production will not be completed until 2026, in part due to component shortages. US reports on the defence industrial base have made it clear that ramping up production in war-time may be challenging, if not impossible, due to supply chain issues and a lack of trained personnel due to the degradation of the US manufacturing base.

Finally, there is an assumption about overall ammunition consumption rates. The US government has always lowballed this number. From the Vietnam era to today, small arms plants have shrunk from five to just one. This was glaring at the height of the Iraq war, when US started to run low on small arms ammunition, causing the US government to buy British and Israeli ammunition during the initial stage of the war. At one point, the US had to dip into Vietnam and even Second World War-era ammo stockpiles of .50 calibre ammunition to feed the war effort. This was largely the result of incorrect assumptions about how effective US troops would be. Indeed, the Government Accountability Office estimated that it took 250,000 rounds to kill one insurgent. Luckily for the US, its gun culture ensured that small arms ammunition industry has a civilian component in the US. This is not the case with other types of ammunition, as shown earlier with Javelin and Stinger missiles. Without access to government methodology, it is impossible to understand why US government estimates were off, but there is a risk that the same errors were made with other types of munitions.

Conclusion
The war in Ukraine demonstrates that war between peer or near-peer adversaries demands the existence of a technically advanced, mass scale, industrial-age production capability. The Russian onslaught consumes ammunition at rates that massively exceed US forecasts and ammunition production. For the US to act as the arsenal of democracy in defence of Ukraine, there must be a major look at the manner and the scale at which the US organises its industrial base. This situation is especially critical because behind the Russian invasion stands the world’s manufacturing capital – China. As the US begins to expend more and more of its stockpiles to keep Ukraine in the war, China has yet to provide any meaningful military assistance to Russia. The West must assume that China will not allow Russia to be defeated, especially due to a lack of ammunition. If competition between autocracies and democracies has really entered a military phase, then the arsenal of democracy must first radically improve its approach to the production of materiel in wartime.

The views expressed in this Commentary are the author’s, and do not represent those of RUSI or any other institution.
Have an idea for a Commentary you’d like to write for us? Send a short pitch to
commentaries@rusi.org and we’ll get back to you if it fits into our research interests. Full guidelines for contributors can be found here.


====
===
.
so if Ukraine fights to the last man and woman,
then we can be assured of no war for at least 10 years
because no more ammo
 

raven

TB Fanatic
You have an interesting point there. I do not think we are capable of fighting a two front war, things are just too fast happening today for the slow buildup that led to WWII's victory on two major fronts. But we do have nukes, the question is, will they be used. What I see here is just one more opportunity for a nuclear war. The other being Russia, where they would be pushed into a corner in eastern Europe.

No one will survive a nuclear war. Not even those hiding in deep highly fortified and supplied bunkers. For they will have nothing to come out to, no armies to command, no population to control - NOTHING.
they will probably wait until Typhoon season is over and the mid term elections.
so November
 

mecoastie

Veteran Member
I wonder what total number of US troops in eastern europe will be the trigger for Xi to move on taiwan.
It all depends where they come from. China needs US air and naval assets pulled out of the Far East and actually engaged with Russia. If that doesnt happen then China has a hard go against those forces as well as the Japanese. I do believe that CHina will probably have the Norks trying to move south to tie down US assets in Korea and potentially Japan. If they are defending Korea they cant be defending Taiwan.
 

jward

passin' thru

jward

passin' thru
Spain intensifies defense collaboration with the US and will house up to six destroyers in Rota
View: https://twitter.com/EndGameWW3/status/1541816815671775232?s=20&t=NOJFbt7vkSFFLCGeGCuhyQ





An oil tanker was stopped by U.S. authorities in transit from a Russian port to New Orleans https://wsj.com/articles/oil-tanker-is-stopped-by-u-s-on-transit-from-russian-port-to-new-orleans-11656429086 via
@WSJ
View: https://twitter.com/EndGameWW3/status/1541816471147487239?s=20&t=NOJFbt7vkSFFLCGeGCuhyQ






EndGameWW3
@EndGameWW3


Update: Kyiv Mayor: NATO Secretary General informed us that NATO will approve a broad aid package for Ukraine and that support will not stop.


10:02 AM · Jun 28, 2022·Twitter Web App
 

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
It all depends where they come from. China needs US air and naval assets pulled out of the Far East and actually engaged with Russia. If that doesnt happen then China has a hard go against those forces as well as the Japanese. I do believe that CHina will probably have the Norks trying to move south to tie down US assets in Korea and potentially Japan. If they are defending Korea they cant be defending Taiwan.

Man power or firepower....
 

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
EndGameWW3
@EndGameWW3

1h

Russian hacker group says cyber attacks continue on Lithuania
View: https://twitter.com/EndGameWW3/status/1541820394222518272?s=20&t=NOJFbt7vkSFFLCGeGCuhyQ




Update: Vladimir Putin told Emmanuel Macron he would rather ‘play ice hockey’ than hold peace talks. ( The Telegraph)



AFP News Agency
@AFP

#BREAKING Russia offensive can end as soon as Ukraine surrenders: Kremlin

Well, be careful for what you ask for......
 

jward

passin' thru
Turkey lifts block on Finnish and Swedish NATO bids
Lili Bayer, Cristina Gallardo​

5-6 minutes​




Turkey lifts block on Finnish and Swedish NATO bids

The three countries signed a memorandum of understanding in Madrid on Tuesday evening, ahead of a summit of NATO leaders.


MADRID — Turkey has lifted its objection to the NATO membership applications by Finland and Sweden, paving the way for the two countries to join the military alliance.
The three countries signed a memorandum of understanding in Madrid on Tuesday evening, ahead of a summit of NATO leaders.

Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has prompted a shift in public opinion across northern Europe toward NATO, leading Helsinki and Stockholm to formally apply for membership in mid-May. But the Turkish leadership, citing concerns over the countries’ alleged support for Kurdish groups and arms embargoes, blocked the process.
On Tuesday, following weeks of talks, the three countries reached a deal, clearing the biggest hurdle holding up Finland and Sweden’s NATO bids. The progress is a blow to Russia’s stated ambition of rolling back NATO’s growth through its war in Ukraine.

“In NATO, we have always shown that whatever our differences, we can always sit down, find common ground and resolve any issues,” NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg proclaimed at a press conference following the signing ceremony.
“Our joint memorandum underscores the commitment of Finland, Sweden and Türkiye to extend their full support against threats to each other’s security,” Finnish President Sauli Niinistö said in a statement. “Us becoming NATO allies will further strengthen this commitment.”

The deal has several components, the NATO chief said.
For starters, he said, Helsinki and Stockholm are committing “to fully support Türkiye against threats to its national security.”
Stoltenberg singled out the PKK, a Kurdish militant group that Turkey, the U.S. and the EU have classified as a terrorist organization. Both countries will work on “cracking down on PKK activities,” he added, and will enter “an agreement with Türkiye on extradition.”

The two Nordic countries will also “have no arms embargo” against Turkey, Stoltenberg noted.
Beyond the points Stoltenberg highlighted, the memorandum text revealed that Finland and Sweden had also agreed not to “not provide support” to YPG, a Kurdish militia in Syria, nor to the movement affiliated with the exiled cleric Fethullah Gülen. The U.S. has not placed the terrorist label on these entities.
And in a passage likely to stoke some controversy in Finland and Sweden, the memorandum pledges that the two countries “will address Turkiye’s pending deportation or extradition requests of terror suspects expeditiously and thoroughly,” clarifying that it must be done in line with European treaties.
As a result of Ankara’s move, NATO leaders gathering in Madrid can now make a formal decision on Wednesday to invite Finland and Sweden to join the alliance.


Then the process will move to each individual NATO country, where all 30 parliaments must ratify the expansion. Because of those logistics, Stoltenberg declined to put a specific timeline on the two countries formally joining the alliance.
Still, Stoltenberg conveyed confidence that NATO would soon grow and touted the “advanced, well-developed” military capabilities both countries would bring to the alliance.

Finland and Sweden are both strategically located for NATO. Finland shares a long border with Russia in the north and Sweden sits across the Baltic Sea from Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania — three countries pressing for more NATO support in the face of Russian threats.
“It will really strengthen our presence in that part of the world,” Stoltenberg said.

 

jward

passin' thru
Winners and losers o' this side deal depend upon who you listen to.
At the end o' the day, can't blame Erdogan for not leaving $$$ on the table eh...as always, Time will tell how much of the agreement survives transition.




Ragıp Soylu
@ragipsoylu

2h

BREAKING — Turkey declares victory over its demands from Sweden and Finland, says it extracted what it wanted from them
Here are the things Turkey got
: • Sweden/Finland will lift its arms embargo
• Both will support Turkey on PKK, stop support to YPG
• They will amend their laws on terrorism
• They will share Intel with each other
• They will extradite terror suspects 1/
• Finland and Sweden will support Turkey’s participation to EU’s Pesko
• Turkey, Finland and Sweden will establish a permanent joint mechanism to consult on justice, security and intelligence

HERE IS THE JOINT DECLARATION • Sweden and Finland confirm that there are no arms embargoes against Turkey.

1656450855536.png1656450879576.png
 

Publius

TB Fanatic
Info thats coming out is telling how our government is in on this and probably because they have a huge pile of dirt on Biden and Harris. Much talk on the internet of Ukraine troops seen with brand-new M-14's most equipped with fiberglass stocks and the Ukraines treat these weapons as disposable items. Many here have see the articles showing how some of the big weaponry that has been given to the Ukraine is being sold on the black market.
 

Squid

Veteran Member

Squid

Veteran Member
Turkey lifts block on Finnish and Swedish NATO bids
Lili Bayer, Cristina Gallardo


5-6 minutes





Turkey lifts block on Finnish and Swedish NATO bids

The three countries signed a memorandum of understanding in Madrid on Tuesday evening, ahead of a summit of NATO leaders.


MADRID — Turkey has lifted its objection to the NATO membership applications by Finland and Sweden, paving the way for the two countries to join the military alliance.
The three countries signed a memorandum of understanding in Madrid on Tuesday evening, ahead of a summit of NATO leaders.

Russia’s invasion of Ukraine has prompted a shift in public opinion across northern Europe toward NATO, leading Helsinki and Stockholm to formally apply for membership in mid-May. But the Turkish leadership, citing concerns over the countries’ alleged support for Kurdish groups and arms embargoes, blocked the process.
On Tuesday, following weeks of talks, the three countries reached a deal, clearing the biggest hurdle holding up Finland and Sweden’s NATO bids. The progress is a blow to Russia’s stated ambition of rolling back NATO’s growth through its war in Ukraine.

“In NATO, we have always shown that whatever our differences, we can always sit down, find common ground and resolve any issues,” NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg proclaimed at a press conference following the signing ceremony.
“Our joint memorandum underscores the commitment of Finland, Sweden and Türkiye to extend their full support against threats to each other’s security,” Finnish President Sauli Niinistö said in a statement. “Us becoming NATO allies will further strengthen this commitment.”

The deal has several components, the NATO chief said.
For starters, he said, Helsinki and Stockholm are committing “to fully support Türkiye against threats to its national security.”
Stoltenberg singled out the PKK, a Kurdish militant group that Turkey, the U.S. and the EU have classified as a terrorist organization. Both countries will work on “cracking down on PKK activities,” he added, and will enter “an agreement with Türkiye on extradition.”

The two Nordic countries will also “have no arms embargo” against Turkey, Stoltenberg noted.
Beyond the points Stoltenberg highlighted, the memorandum text revealed that Finland and Sweden had also agreed not to “not provide support” to YPG, a Kurdish militia in Syria, nor to the movement affiliated with the exiled cleric Fethullah Gülen. The U.S. has not placed the terrorist label on these entities.
And in a passage likely to stoke some controversy in Finland and Sweden, the memorandum pledges that the two countries “will address Turkiye’s pending deportation or extradition requests of terror suspects expeditiously and thoroughly,” clarifying that it must be done in line with European treaties.
As a result of Ankara’s move, NATO leaders gathering in Madrid can now make a formal decision on Wednesday to invite Finland and Sweden to join the alliance.


Then the process will move to each individual NATO country, where all 30 parliaments must ratify the expansion. Because of those logistics, Stoltenberg declined to put a specific timeline on the two countries formally joining the alliance.
Still, Stoltenberg conveyed confidence that NATO would soon grow and touted the “advanced, well-developed” military capabilities both countries would bring to the alliance.

Finland and Sweden are both strategically located for NATO. Finland shares a long border with Russia in the north and Sweden sits across the Baltic Sea from Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania — three countries pressing for more NATO support in the face of Russian threats.
“It will really strengthen our presence in that part of the world,” Stoltenberg said.

There is an unmarked plane somewhere headed to Turkey with the administrations payment.

What we do know is if weapons are involved they will be used in the future against Americans.

Thanks Brandon, you cretin!!!
 

OldArcher

Has No Life - Lives on TB
There is an unmarked plane somewhere headed to Turkey with the administrations payment.

What we do know is if weapons are involved they will be used in the future against Americans.

Thanks Brandon, you cretin!!!

With Lyin’ Biden, it’s always, ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!!! He doesn’t give a rat’s ass about America, or Americans. Bought and sold traitor, head of the Lyin’ Biden Treasonous Crime Family…

OA
 

jward

passin' thru
New leaders installed at US military commands in Europe that Russian invasion has returned to forefront
John Vandiver

6-7 minutes


Incoming commander of U.S. Army Europe and Africa Gen. Darryl Williams takes the unit's colors from Gen. Tod Wolters in Wiesbaden, Germany, on June 28, 2022. Williams took command of the unit from Gen. Christopher Cavoli at the ceremony.

Incoming commander of U.S. Army Europe and Africa Gen. Darryl Williams takes the unit's colors from Gen. Tod Wolters in Wiesbaden, Germany, on June 28, 2022. Williams took command of the unit from Gen. Christopher Cavoli at the ceremony. (Michael Abrams/Stars and Stripes)

STUTTGART, Germany — U.S. soldiers and special operations troops in Europe got new commanders Tuesday as leadership changed hands for two headquarters at the center of the military’s response to Russia’s war on Ukraine.

Gen. Darryl Williams, who previously served as superintendent of the U.S. Military Academy in West Point, N.Y., brings with him extensive experience on the Continent as head of U.S. Army Europe and Africa.

U.S. European Command’s Gen. Tod Wolters said Williams’ 39 years of active-duty experience, which includes stints in key NATO roles, made him the best fit at a “pivotal phase” marked by the Russia-Ukraine war.

For the U.S., Russia’s unprovoked invasion has resulted in a sharp increase in troops sent to Europe, where forces are focused on deterring potential aggression and helping to manage the flow of weapons for delivery to Ukraine.

New U.S. Army Europe and Africa commander Gen. Darryl Williams, Gen. Tod Wolters, Lt. Gen. Kirk Smith and outgoing USAREUR commander Gen. Christopher Cavoli march off the parade field after Williams took command from Cavoli at a ceremony at Clay Kaserne in Wiesbaden, Germany, on June 28, 2022.

New U.S. Army Europe and Africa commander Gen. Darryl Williams, Gen. Tod Wolters, Lt. Gen. Kirk Smith and outgoing USAREUR commander Gen. Christopher Cavoli march off the parade field after Williams took command from Cavoli at a ceremony at Clay Kaserne in Wiesbaden, Germany, on June 28, 2022. (Michael Abrams/Stars and Stripes)

“We know this: This component has led from the front to serve that cause and support Ukraine,” Wolters said.

Williams said during a ceremony at USAREUR-AF headquarters in Wiesbaden that his focus will be ensuring that his soldiers are prepared to deter would-be aggressors and fight if necessary.

“Our number-one job is to be ready and to continue to keep that spear sharp,” he said.

In previous Europe postings, Williams commanded troops in Baumholder, Germany, as an artillery officer and later as a two- and three-star general with assignments in Italy and Turkey.

Williams replaced Gen. Cristopher Cavoli, who has led the Army in Europe the past four years. On Friday, Cavoli will take over as head of U.S. European Command in Stuttgart and will serve as NATO’s next supreme allied commander, taking over from Wolters.

Cannons fire a salute during the U.S. Army Europe and Africa change of command ceremony in Wiesbaden, Germany, on June 28, 2022. Gen. Darryl Williams took command of the unit from Gen. Christopher Cavoli.

Cannons fire a salute during the U.S. Army Europe and Africa change of command ceremony in Wiesbaden, Germany, on June 28, 2022. Gen. Darryl Williams took command of the unit from Gen. Christopher Cavoli. (Michael Abrams/Stars and Stripes)
Meanwhile, in Stuttgart, Air Force Brig. Gen. Steven Edwards replaced Air Force Maj. Gen. David Tabor on Tuesday as head of U.S. Special Operations Command Europe, leading a group of Navy SEALs, Green Berets and Air Force special operators.

Wolters officiated both command changes and said the two headquarters have been central to the effort to support Ukraine.

Air Force Brig. Gen. Steven Edwards, left, replaced Air Force Maj. Gen. David Tabor on June 28, 2022, as head of U.S. Special Operations Command Europe, at a ceremony in Stuttgart, Germany, Tuesday, June. 28, 2022.

Air Force Brig. Gen. Steven Edwards, left, replaced Air Force Maj. Gen. David Tabor on June 28, 2022, as head of U.S. Special Operations Command Europe, at a ceremony in Stuttgart, Germany, Tuesday, June. 28, 2022. (Twitter/U.S. Special Operations Command Europe)

In Stuttgart, he credited special operators for pressing forward during an intense two-year period that involved carrying out missions during the coronavirus pandemic, supporting last year’s evacuation of civilians from Afghanistan and now playing a key role in Ukraine’s efforts to repel the Russian invaders.

“I know you are tired, and you know you are tired. You are exhausted,” Wolters said. “I want you to know that what you’ve done for the last two years … has made a huge, huge difference.”

New commander of U.S. Army Europe and Africa Gen. Darryl Williams speaks at the change of command ceremony June 28, 2022, in Wiesbaden, Germany. Williams has extensive European experience, and he returns with the Continent facing its largest military conflict since World War II.

New commander of U.S. Army Europe and Africa Gen. Darryl Williams speaks at the change of command ceremony June 28, 2022, in Wiesbaden, Germany. Williams has extensive European experience, and he returns with the Continent facing its largest military conflict since World War II. (Michael Abrams/Stars and Stripes)

The leadership changes come at a pivotal moment for security in Europe, where combat in Ukraine is happening at a scale not seen on the Continent since World War II.

Gen. Richard Clarke, U.S. Special Operations Command chief, said during the ceremony in Stuttgart that over the past several months, the SOCEUR mission has emerged as his command’s “main effort.”

Tabor, who leaves Stuttgart for a new post as the Air Force’s director of programming, said getting the right kind of assistance to Ukraine, whether material support or training and advice, has been a major focus over the past several months.

“I think the big role we stepped into was one of cohering the allies we have, that we’ve been working with for years and years now, including for the last seven years in Ukraine,” Tabor told Stars and Stripes.

Stars and Stripes reporter Mike Abrams contributed to this report.

Soldiers on the parade field salute during the playing of the American and German national anthems at the U.S. Army Europe and Africa change of command ceremony in Wiesbaden, Germany, on June 28, 2022.

Soldiers on the parade field salute during the playing of the American and German national anthems at the U.S. Army Europe and Africa change of command ceremony in Wiesbaden, Germany, on June 28, 2022. (Michael Abrams/Stars and Stripes)
 

Doomer Doug

TB Fanatic
Sheesh, this clown was at Baumholder, my base, although he was there in the 1980's. And to think the entire chain of command are traitors and globalist stooges.

Hopefully all the patriots in the military have left in the last two years of TREASON.
I hope the 40,000 military purebloods leave the military on Thursday the final day for the death jab.
There is no hope for anybody who took the death jab. The American military will be ground up by Russia.
The demon possessed and led American military won't last long once the wrath of God breaks it into molecules. Both china and Russia will utterly destroy us for our evil. Led by fools and corrupt globalists like these clowns.
 
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