ALERT RUSSIA INVADES UKRAINE - Consolidated Thread

O

Oreally

Right from the start
here is a conversation i had yesterday with my univ friend on telegram. edited out personal stuff, and a bit for clarity


Me,[1/24/2023 1:56 PM]
pause in offensive war for both sides for now

Me,[1/24/2023 1:56 PM]
but no peace in sight


Him,, [1/24/2023 1:56 PM]
Will see if aircrafts will also be as a component of NATO strategy offence will be easier


Me,[1/24/2023 1:56 PM]
this could go on for years

Him,, [1/24/2023 1:57 PM]

Couse now it's deadfight of 2 soviet armies\

Me,[1/24/2023 1:57 PM]

seems that f 16 are coming later

Him, [1/24/2023 1:57 PM]

So many soldiers died in assaults attempts in Kreminna and Svatove

Me,[1/24/2023 1:56 PM]
may have to evacuate bakhmut

Me,[1/24/2023 1:59 PM]
but only a psychological defeat if it happens.



Him,, [1/24/2023 1:59 PM]
Also it seems like 1 year battling soldiers will have rotation in spring summer so mobilisation of reserves is moving significantly



Me,[1/24/2023 1:59 PM]
so, war resumes in april/may



Him,, [1/24/2023 2:00 PM]
It's just because of beef tactics of officers and they are not stopping till battalion is dead




Me,[1/24/2023 2:00 PM]
unbelievable. what is the population saying?




Him,, [1/24/2023 2:04 PM]
Without nato standards and good commanders we will have huge loses. its main thing now to have controllability in army




Him,, [1/24/2023 2:04 PM]
About mobilisation?




Me,[1/24/2023 2:05 PM]
no. the casualtiy rate and the bad ukranina tactics




Him,, [1/24/2023 2:06 PM]
We can do anything with it just understand it is cruel war

Him,, [1/24/2023 2:06 PM]
Some are terrified of mobilisation

Him,, [1/24/2023 2:06 PM]
Some not



Me,[1/24/2023 2:07 PM]
you mean students


Him,, [1/24/2023 2:07 PM]
But it's total war maybe i will take part after master degree


Me,[1/24/2023 2:08 PM]
wow

Him, [1/24/2023 2:08 PM]
We are joking if someone expelled from the university we'll buy him ammunition and wave him at his way to Bachmut

Him,, [1/24/2023 2:08 PM]
It's sad irony



Me,[1/24/2023 2:09 PM]
in world war 1 france lost an average of 450 guys a day for 4 years, and still won

Him,, [1/24/2023 2:10 PM]
I think that probably we will have 50k loses excluding wounded

Me,[1/24/2023 2:10 PM]
oh, it has to be more now. i guess 100k

Him,, [1/24/2023 2:10 PM]
Just KIA and disappeared in action



Him,, [1/24/2023 2:11 PM]
Big amount of disappeared Is dead but army can't approve it cause of distance to bodies of full body desapear due to shelling



Him,, [1/24/2023 2:12 PM]
With wounded yes




Me,[1/24/2023 2:38 PM]
what is with this? ⚡️#BREAKING Ukrainian media claim that the deputy head of Zelensky's office, Kyrylo Tymoshenko, wrote a letter of resignation.

Also, the heads of the Dnepropetrovsk, Zaporozhye, Kherson and Sumy regions of Ukraine resigned.




Him,, [1/24/2023 3:28 PM]
Corrupted men with scandals are fired



Him,, [1/24/2023 3:28 PM]
But other corrupted men without scandals still have their chairs as Oleg Tatarov

Him,, [1/24/2023 3:29 PM]
It's agreement with west. They don't give us money if our politics are thieves



Me,[1/24/2023 3:29 PM]
the army, the men who have their lives on the line, are the only ones who can straighten out this society before it is too late.

Him,, [1/24/2023 3:35 PM]
Yes but society is not totally wrong

Him,, [1/24/2023 3:36 PM]
But big part yes

Me,[1/24/2023 3:37 PM]
i know that. it is a lack of long standing civic institutions and a deep rooted civic ethic.

Him,, [1/24/2023 3:37 PM]
I suppose that this war [will cause] bigger conciseness revolution as revolution of 14 year and war before 02.24

Me,[1/24/2023 3:39 PM]
back home we have clubs and private organizations that go back 150 or more years. or we used to. so individuals would have a sense of civic resp9onsibilty. it seems here that was destroyed by the communists in the east and the nazi and communists here.





Me,[1/24/2023 3:40 PM]
what do you think of the azov and right sector people and group

Him,, [1/24/2023 3:41 PM]
Younger generation have feelings of civic society.


Him,, [1/24/2023 3:44 PM]
Azov is elite of right movement with deep ideologic doctrine and have no roots to nazi doctrine, but some of ultras individuals in this organisation may perform as they are nazi just ironically turning russian propaganda narratives.

Me,[1/24/2023 3:45 PM]
so, idiots? guys who just need the image of toughness?

Him,, [1/24/2023 3:47 PM]
We have romantisation of right wing and many teenagers try to do some protest things, but they wouldn't have any response in parlament, or will have 5% of deputies on next elections, they can't form any nazi rezhime in Ukraine.
We only can have Zelensky dictatorship but it wouldn't be radical rightwing


Me,[1/24/2023 3:47 PM]
that image is causing some problems back home.




Him,, [1/24/2023 3:51 PM]
I know one student in territorial defence with yellow blue svastic he claim it inspires him.
We have 5% of radicals which use only flags symbols, and they think it's funny and ironic for russian propaganda it's hard to make them understand



Me,[1/24/2023 3:50 PM]
Are all other political parties banned?


Him,, [1/24/2023 3:51 PM]
Only prorussian parties






Him,, [1/24/2023 3:51 PM]
They are just make business with sluga narodu



Me,[1/24/2023 3:52 PM]
are the parties regional or fully national, or something else?

Him,, [1/24/2023 3:52 PM]
As medvechuk party, comunist party party of regions (yanukovych party)

Him,, [1/24/2023 3:53 PM]
Diferent, very different

Me,[1/24/2023 3:53 PM]
personal?

Him,, [1/24/2023 3:56 PM]
Also we have medzhlis of tatars, we have galychyna party
Forbiden parties prorussian on east south east were elected, on west poroshenko and majority in south center of Sluga Narodu (serve of folks)

Him,, [1/24/2023 3:56 PM]
And other parties

Him,, [1/24/2023 3:58 PM]
Yes but it's not about roots it's about national minorities





Him,, [1/24/2023 6:39 PM]
Abramses is coming!

Me,[1/24/2023 6:41 PM]
hard to believe because of the fuel and maintenance issues. leopards are much better and more numerous, and closer.

Him,, [1/24/2023 6:42 PM]
Yes

Him,, [1/24/2023 6:45 PM]
But Taras Chmut military analytic head of NGO Comeback alive (was in congress in December) says that abramses from long perspective is better variant.
And also it is Sholz claim no abramses no leopard he wants coalitional decision and franch tanks also will be and challengers

Him,, [1/24/2023 6:45 PM]
I suppose that for 1 brigade one unit

Him,, [1/24/2023 6:48 PM]
And germany allows poland to give us leopards tomorow

Me,[1/24/2023 6:49 PM]
apparently. that is good. they are close. getting abrams would take weeks or months

Him,, [1/24/2023 6:54 PM]
Despite if we have learned crew
1. Oligarchs
2. corrupted system where everyone wants a bite

Me,[1/24/2023 4:02 PM]
well, if the country survives, things will be different

Him,, [1/24/2023 4:02 PM]
Exactly

Him,, [1/24/2023 4:03 PM]
But we will have problem with population amount and may be dead people will vote in next elections))))

Me,[1/24/2023 4:03 PM]
laugh

Me,[1/24/2023 4:04 PM]
same problem in US now. dead people voting
 
vector7

vector7

Dot Collector
BREAKING - Putin is negotiating with Taliban on the purchase of US coalition military equipment that was left behind in Afghanistan as a result of the United States' hasty withdrawal in 2021 for use in the war against Ukraine.

$7.12B in aircraft, vehicles, weapons +

If this is true, and it’s really a smart move by the Russians, then I’m sure “Lord of War” Victor Bout is helping to facilitate the purchase.

I’m glad we traded him for that Trans basketball player.

biden.gif

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1618210806621163523
View: https://twitter.com/Bayrunner87/status/1618210806621163523?t=OFVd4ubsKkjV2uCrqizKpw&s=19
 
Last edited:
H

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
Top and bottom of the hour ABC radio news reporting that Berlin is now OKing the transfer of Leo2s to Ukraine by other nations and will supply some themselves.
 
LightEcho

LightEcho

Has No Life - Lives on TB
danielboon said:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1618145836357287936
View: https://twitter.com/EndGameWW3/status/1618145836357287936
Click to expand...
This twit says : air raid alerts in all areas of Ukraine. More hell breaking loose. Some think this is over until spring. Sorry, but it is just beginning. The Russian army will do its most work while the ground is frozen. I pity winter-time soldiers, not that any other time is pleasant. A soldier does not have the luxury of being able to light a fire when cold, or leave a position to find shelter from the weather.

Re- Dumitru Duduman, 20 years ago I thought it sounded so crazy/ unreasonable. Especially the idea of an American internal revolution. But now, it seems quite inevitable. And learning more of his background, I don't think you get any more reliable than his. We want instant timing and that is not how it works.
 
Zagdid

Zagdid

Veteran Member
vector7 said:
BREAKING - Putin is negotiating with Taliban on the purchase of US coalition military equipment that was left behind in Afghanistan as a result of the United States' hasty withdrawal in 2021 for use in the war against Ukraine.

$7.12B in aircraft, vehicles, weapons +

If this is true, and it’s really a smart move by the Russians, then I’m sure “Lord of War” Victor Bout is helping to facilitate the purchase.

I’m glad we traded him for that Trans basketball player.

biden.gif

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1618210806621163523
View: https://twitter.com/Bayrunner87/status/1618210806621163523?t=OFVd4ubsKkjV2uCrqizKpw&s=19
Click to expand...
The name Paul Whelan has already been forgotten. The administration no longer feels obliged to recognize that he exists. Oh yeah, the Taliban. Didn't Biden just give them some money too? Spoils to the victor!
 
H

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
Zagdid said:
The name Paul Whelan has already been forgotten. The administration no longer feels obliged to recognize that he exists. Oh yeah, the Taliban. Didn't Biden just give them some money too? Spoils to the victor!
Click to expand...
There will be a reconning on these and more in the future both in the short and long terms and there will be many in DC who will be surprised when the Fates present them a bill....
 
Tom McDowell

Tom McDowell

BAMN

Ukrainian Nationalism as a ‘Cold War Weapon’​

3624 Views January 25, 2023 1 Comment

By Cynthia Chung for the Saker blog

The Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) was founded in 1929 in East Galicia (located in Poland at the time) and called for an independent and ethnically homogenous Ukraine. From the beginning, the OUN had tensions between the young radical Galician students and the older military veteran leadership, who grew up in the more lenient Austro-Hungarian Empire. The younger generation had only known oppression under the new Polish rule and underground warfare. As a result, the younger faction tended to be more impulsive, violent and ruthless.

During this period, Polish persecution of Ukrainians increased and many Ukrainians, especially the youth who felt they had no future, lost faith in traditional legal approaches, in their elders and in Western democracies who were seen as turning their backs on Ukraine. The OUN assassinated Polish Interior Minister Bronislaw Pieracki in 1934. Among those tried and convicted in 1936 for Pieracki’s murder, were OUN’s Stepan Bandera and Mykola Lebed. Both escaped when the Germans invaded Poland in 1939.

Support for the OUN increased as Polish persecution of Ukrainians continued. By the beginning of the Second World War, the OUN was estimated to have 20,000 active members and many times that number in sympathizers in Galicia. In 1940 the OUN would split into the OUN-M led by Andriy Melnyk, and OUN-B headed by Stepan Bandera which made up most of the membership in Galicia and consisted mainly of youth.

In August 1939, the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany signed the non-aggression pact known as the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, dividing Poland. Eastern Galicia and Volhynia were reunified with Ukraine, under the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic. In June 1941, when Nazi Germany invaded Western Ukraine, there were many Western Ukrainians who welcomed the invading Nazis as their ‘liberators.’ It should be noted here that this was not a sentiment predominantly shared by the rest of Ukraine, who fought in or alongside the Russian Red Army against the invading Nazis. Both the OUN-M and OUN-B would spend much of the war collaborating closely with the Germans. They had no issues with the Nazi ideology for they too believed that a solution was found in returning to a ‘pure race.’

In the case of Ukraine, this pure race consisted of a somewhat romanticised concept of ‘ethnic Ukrainian,’ based on the golden age of Kievan Rus’. The OUN believed that the ‘pure ethnic Ukrainian race’ were the only true descendants of the royal bloodline of the Rurik dynasty that ruled Kievan Rus’. And rather than looking at Belarusians and the Russians as their brothers and sisters who shared the same ancestry, the OUN viewed them more so as ‘ethnic impostors’ so to speak of this pure bloodline. This can be seen today with Ukrainian neo-Nazi groups attacking Ukrainian ethnic Russians for the past nine years in Ukraine.[1] An issue that is almost entirely ignored in the West.

Map Description automatically generated

It was believed that if the purity of the bloodline were returned, greatness would once again be bestowed on Ukraine, which had never really existed as a fully independent region. It was for this reason that the OUN and the SS Galician division believed that exterminating tens of thousands of Poles, Jews and any other non-ethnic Ukrainian was justified. The SS Galician division, which had an overlapping membership with the OUN, were notorious for their extreme cruelty, including acts of torture and mutilation on par with Japan’s Unit 731.

To give an idea of the level of support in Western Ukraine at the time for a ‘pure Ukrainian race,’ the SS Galician division recruited 80,000 Galician volunteers in one and a half months. The trident symbol, known also as the tryzub, is an important symbol for Ukrainians, since it comes from the days of Kievan Rus’ and its earliest use was during the rule of Vladimir/Volodymyr the Great, about 1,000 years ago. However, it is also most unfortunately why the OUN chose the tryzub for both their emblems and flag, to signify their desire to return to those glory days, which was thought could only be achieved through ethnic cleansing.
Logo, company name Description automatically generated

The above OUN-B flag (also used by their paramilitary unit UPA: Ukrainian Insurgent Army) is known as the ‘Blood and Soil’ flag. The ‘Blood and Soil’ nationalist slogan originated in Nazi Germany to express its ideal of a racially defined national body (blood) united with a settlement area (soil). It is also why Ukrainian neo-Nazi groups that formed from 1991 onward (after Ukraine’s independence from the USSR), more often than not, also use the tryzub.

Logo, company name Description automatically generated

Above image shows flags of neo-Nazi groups in Ukraine today. The Azov flag shows a combination of the Wolfsangel and Black Sun, two symbols associated with the Wehrmacht and SS.

In 1998, the Nazi War Crimes and Japanese Imperial Government Records Interagency Working Group (IWG), at the behest of Congress, launched what became the largest congressionally mandated, single-subject declassification effort in history. As a result, more than 8.5 million pages of records have been opened to the public under the Nazi War Crimes Disclosure Act (P.L. 105-246) and the Japanese Imperial Government Disclosure Act (P.L. 106-567). These records include operational files of the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), the CIA, the FBI and Army intelligence. IWG issued three reports to Congress between 1999 and 2007.

A research group was put together to compile and organise key elements of this massive newly declassified database, the result was the publication of U.S. Intelligence and The Nazis in 2005, and Hitler’s Shadow Nazi War Criminals, U. S. Intelligence, and the Cold War in 2011, both published by the National Archives, and which will be used as key references for the rest of this chapter.

Richard Breitman writes in U.S. Intelligence and The Nazis[2]:
“What must be the earliest history (or mini-history) of the extermination of the Jews in Lvov [Lviv] was prepared on June 5, 1945. The ten-page document pointed out that, as soon as German troops took Lvov, Ukrainians in the city denounced Jews who had cooperated with Soviet authorities during the period of Soviet occupation, 1939-1941. Those Jews were arrested, gathered near the municipal building, and beaten by the Germans and local inhabitants. Later, local inhabitants, especially from the villages nearby, ravaged the Jewish quarter and beat Jews who stood in the way of their robbery. Starting on July 1, a pogrom was organized; German police, soldiers, and local Ukrainians all took part. Many of those arrested were tortured and killed… More than twelve thousand Jews were killed in the first weeks of the German occupation of Lvov.”[3]

Norman J.W. Goda writes in U.S. Intelligence and The Nazis[4]:
“In its work to destabilize the Polish state, the OUN’s ties with Germany extended back to 1921. These ties intensified under the Nazi regime as war with Poland drew near. Galicia was allotted to the Soviets under the August 1939 Nazi-Soviet Non-Aggression Pact, and the Germans welcomed anti-Polish Ukrainian activists into the German-occupied General Government. In 1940 and 1941, in preparation for what would become the eastern campaign, the Germans began to recruit Ukrainians, particularly from Bandera’s wing, as saboteurs, interpreters, and police, and trained them at a camp at Zakopane near Cracow [Kraków]. In the spring of 1941, the Wehrmacht also developed two Ukrainian battalions with the approval of the Banderists, one code named ‘Nightingale’ (Nachtigall) and the other code named ‘Roland’.”

What showcases the youth, and unfortunately ignorance, of the OUN-B, is that the ‘blood and soil’ slogan originating with the Nazis, to which they chose for their own OUN-B flag, was also tied to the belief that the German people were to expand into Eastern Europe, conquering and enslaving the native Slavic and Baltic population via Generalplan Ost.[5] Thus, these Ukrainian nationalists were never considered worthy of sharing in this vision of Nazi Germany but had been regarded as the ultimate slaves for the new German empire from the very beginning.

The OUN-B would learn this lesson the hard way. Eight days after Germany’s invasion of the USSR, on June 30th, 1941, OUN-B proclaimed the establishment of the Ukrainian State in the name of Bandera in Lviv and pledged loyalty to Hitler. In response, the OUN-B leaders and associates were arrested and imprisoned or killed outright by the Gestapo (approx. 1500 persons). The Germans had no intention of even allowing a semi-independent Ukraine to form. Stepan Bandera and his closest deputy Jaroslav Stetsko were initially kept under house arrest and then sent to the Sachsenhausen concentration camp (a comparatively comfortable confinement to the other concentration camps).

Mykola Lebed was able to slip through the German police net and became the de facto leader of the OUN-B leadership, also known as the Banderists. On July 16th, 1941, the Germans absorbed Galicia into the General Government. In October 1941, the German Security Police issued a wanted poster with Lebed’s photograph. The Germans transferred administrative and senior auxiliary police positions in Western Ukraine to Melnyk’s group, OUN-M.[6] German security police formations were ordered to arrest and kill Bandera loyalists in Western Ukraine for fear that they would rise against German rule, though this order was eventually revoked. The following year Lebed would become the leader of the underground terror wing, the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA), which continued in function until 1956.

Eastern Ukrainians later claimed that Mykola Lebed as leader of the OUN-B, took over the UPA by assassinating the original Ukrainian leaders. The OUN counted among its enemies those that had denied Ukrainian independence, such as the Poles and the Soviets but also including native Ukrainians. Those in the Ukraine who had failed to assimilate (such as the Jews) were also considered enemies to Ukrainian independence and at times, when it suited them, the Germans. They also regarded the Jews as the primary support and ‘spreaders’ of Bolshevism.
Breitman and Goda write:[7]

“When the war turned against the Germans in early 1943, leaders of Bandera’s group believed that the Soviets and Germans would exhaust each other, leaving an independent Ukraine as in 1918. Lebed proposed in April to ‘cleanse the entire revolutionary territory of the Polish population,’ so that a resurgent Polish state would not claim the region as in 1918. Ukrainians serving as auxiliary policemen for the Germans now joined the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA)… On a single day, July 11th, 1943, the UPA attacked some 80 localities killing… 10,000 Poles…The Banderists and UPA also resumed cooperation with the Germans.”

This was all done under the command of Mykola Lebed.

=====
End of part 1

===
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Tom McDowell

Tom McDowell

BAMN
Part 2

By 1943, aware that their situation was becoming increasingly insecure, the OUN tried to re-centralise their forces. However, infighting occurred between the OUN-B against the OUN-M and the UPA unit of Taras Bulba-Borovets (of the exiled Ukrainian People’s Republic) who in a letter accused the OUN-B of among other things: banditry, of wanting to establish a one-party state, and of fighting not for the people but in order to rule the people. In their struggle for dominance in Volhynia, the Banderists (OUN-B) would kill tens of thousands of Ukrainians for any link to the networks of Bulba-Borovets or Melnyk (OUN-M).[8]

By September 1944 German Army officers in northern Ukraine told their superiors in Foreign Armies East that the UPA was a “natural ally of Germany” and “a valuable aid for the German High Command,” and Himmler himself authorized intensified contacts with UPA.[9]

Norman J.W. Goda writes[10]:
“Though UPA propaganda emphasized that organization’s independence from the Germans, the UPA also ordered some young Ukrainians to volunteer for the Ukrainian SS Division ‘Galicia,’ and the rest to fight by guerilla methods. Lebed still hoped for recognition from the Germans.”

The SS Galicia Division existed from April 1943 to April 15th, 1945. Germany surrendered on May 7th, 1945. In September 1944, the Germans released Bandera and Stetsko from Sachsenhausen.
The Ukrainian Nationalist Movement: Bought and Paid for by the CIA and served à la Lebed
“[Lebed] is a well known sadist and collaborator of the Germans”[11]
– 1947 Report by The U.S. Army’s Counterintelligence Corps (CIC)

In July 1944 Mykola Lebed helped form the Supreme Ukrainian Liberation Council (UHVR), which would claim to represent the Ukrainian nation and served as an underground government in the Carpathian mountains, in opposition to the Ukrainian SSR. The dominant political party in UHVR was the Bandera group and the UPA, which from that point on served as the army of UHVR and continued to fight the Soviets until 1956. A feud erupted in 1947 between Bandera and Stetsko on one side for an independent Ukraine under a single party led by Bandera himself vs. Lebed and Father Ivan Hrynioch (chief of the UHVR Political Section) who were against Bandera being head of state.

At an August 1948 Congress of the OUN Foreign Section, Bandera (who still controlled 80% of the UHVR) expelled the Hrynioch-Lebed group. He claimed exclusive authority on the Ukrainian national movement and continued terror tactics against anti-Banderist Ukrainian leaders in Western Europe and maneuvered for control of Ukrainian émigré organizations.[12] However, Lebed who had become close with the Americans at that point was recognized, along with Hrynioch as the official UHVR representation abroad.

With the war lost, Lebed adopted a strategy similar to that of Reinhard Gehlen – he contacted the Allies after escaping Rome in 1945 with a trove of names and contacts of anti-Soviets located in Western Ukraine and in displaced persons camps in Germany. This made him attractive to the U.S. Army’s Counterintelligence Corps (CIC) despite their above admission in their 1947 report. In late 1947, Lebed who it was feared would be assassinated by the Soviets in Rome, was smuggled along with his family by the CIC to Munich, Germany in December 1947 for his safety.
Norman J.W. Goda writes:[13]

“By late 1947, Lebed had thoroughly sanitized his prewar and wartime activities for American consumption. In his own rendition, he had been a victim of the Poles, the Soviets, and the Germans – he would carry the Gestapo ‘wanted’ poster for the rest of his life to prove his anti-Nazi credentials…He also published a 126-page booklet on the UPA, which chronicled the heroic struggle of Ukrainians against both Nazis and Bolsheviks, while calling for an independent, greater Ukraine that would represent the human ideals of free speech and free faith. The UPA, according to the booklet, never collaborated with the Nazis, nor is there any mention of the slaughter of Galician Jews or Poles in the book. The CIC considered the booklet to be the ‘complete background on the subject.’ The CIC overlooked the fact that under its own watch an OUN Congress held in September 1947 had split, thanks to Lebed’s criticism of the creeping democratization of the OUN. This was overlooked by the CIA which began using Lebed extensively in 1948…In June 1949…the CIA smuggled him [Lebed] into the United States with his wife and daughter under the legal cover of the Displaced Persons Act.”

The Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) began investigating Lebed and in March 1950 reported to Washington that numerous Ukrainian informants spoke of Lebed’s leading role among the ‘Bandera terrorists.’ The INS also reported that during the war the Banderists were trained and armed by the Gestapo and responsible for “wholesale murders of Ukrainians, Poles and Jewish [sic]…In all these actions, Lebed was one of the most important leaders.”[14]

In 1951, top INS officials informed the CIA of its findings along with the comment that Lebed would likely face deportation. The CIA responded on October 3rd, 1951, that all of the charges were false and that the Gestapo ‘wanted’ poster of Lebed proved that he “fought with equal zeal against the Nazis and Bolsheviks.”[15] INS officials as a result suspended the investigation on Lebed. In February 1952, the CIA pressed the INS to grant Lebed re-entry papers so that he could leave and re-enter the United States at will. Argyle Mackey, Commissioner of the INS, refused to grant this.

On May 5th, 1952, Allen Dulles, then Assistant Director of the CIA wrote a letter to Mackey stating[16]:
“In connection with future Agency operations of the first importance, it is urgently necessary that subject [Lebed] be able to travel in Western Europe. Before [he] undertakes such travel, however, this Agency must…assure his re-entry into the United States without investigation or incident which would attract undue attentions to his activities.”

What was in West Germany? General Reinhard Gehlen, former chief of the Wehrmacht Foreign Armies East military intelligence, who had been conveniently allowed to re-enter West Germany to establish his Gehlen Organisation which would later form the Bundesnachrichtendienst (Federal Intelligence Service of West Germany) in 1956. Dulles also wanted Lebed’s legal status changed to that of “permanent resident,” under Section 8 of the CIA Act of 1949. The INS never investigated further after Dulles’s letter and Lebed became a naturalized U.S. citizen in March 1957.

Bandera would also be stationed in West Germany with his family after the war, where he remained the leader of the OUN-B and worked with several anti-communist organizations as well as with British Intelligence.[17] At this point Bandera had become too much of a liability and there were multiple attempts, by both the Americans and British starting in 1953, to get Bandera to step down and for Lebed to represent “the entire Ukrainian liberation movement in the homeland.” Bandera refused and went rogue.
It is said that Bandera was assassinated in 1959 by a KGB agent in Munich, however, one cannot help but note that it was excellent timing and extremely beneficial for the Americans that Bandera was taken out when he was, considering what they had planned for Ukraine’s future…
Text, letter Description automatically generated

Above image is the original document of the Dulles letter to Mackey on behalf of Mykola Lebed.

====
End of part 2

===
.
 
Tom McDowell

Tom McDowell

BAMN
Part 3 - final
Among the declassified records are that of Hoover’s FBI, who had a small trove of captured German General Staff documents from 1943 and 1944, which revealed German appreciation of the UPA’s work while mentioning Lebed by name.[18] It appears this was never shared with any agency or institution, other than the CIA, despite requests from the INS during their investigation of Lebed.

The following is an indication as to what Dulles may have been referring to as the urgent need for Lebed’s re-entry into Western Europe. Breitman and Goda write:[19]

“By 1947 some 250,000 Ukrainians were living…in Germany, Austria, and Italy, many of them OUN activists or sympathizers. After 1947 UPA fighters began crossing into the U.S. zone, having reached the border on foot through Czechoslovakia.”

However, Lebed was not only urgently needed in Europe, but also within the United States. Once in the United States, Lebed was selected as the CIA’s chief contact/advisor for AERODYNAMIC. Breitman and Goda write:[20]

“AERODYNAMIC’s first phase involved infiltration into Ukraine and then exfiltration of CIA-trained Ukrainian agents. By January 1950 the CIA’s arm for the collection of secret intelligence (Office of Special Operations, OSO) and its arm for covert operations (Office of Policy Coordination, OPC) participated [author’s note: recall from Chapter 4 the OPC was the Allen Dulles rogue faction of the CIA] …Washington was especially pleased with the high level of UPA training in the Ukraine and its potential for further guerilla actions, and with ‘the extraordinary news that…active resistance to the Soviet regime was spreading steadily eastward, out of the former Polish, Greek Catholic provinces… [However] By 1954 Lebed’s group lost all contact with UHVR. By that time the Soviets subdued both the UHVR and UPA, and the CIA ended the aggressive phase of AERODYNAMIC.

Beginning in 1953 AERODYNAMIC began to operate through a Ukrainian study group under Lebed’s leadership in New York under CIA auspices, which collected Ukrainian literature and history and produced Ukrainian nationalist newspapers, bulletins, radio programming, and books for distribution in the Ukraine. In 1956 this group was formally incorporated as the non-profit Prolog Research and Publishing Association. It allowed the CIA to funnel funds as ostensible private donations without taxable footprints… the CIA turned Prolog into a for-profit enterprise called Prolog Research Corporation, which ostensibly received private contracts. Under Hrinioch [Hrynioch], Prolog maintained a Munich office named the Ukrainische Geseelschaft fur Auslandsstudein, EV. Most publications were created here.

Prolog recruited and paid Ukrainian émigré writers who were generally unaware that they worked in a CIA-controlled operation. Only the six top members of the ZP/UHVR were witting agents. Beginning in 1955, leaflets were dropped over Ukraine by air[,] and radio broadcasts titled Nova Ukraina were aired in Athens for Ukrainian consumption. These activities gave way to systematic mailing campaigns to Ukraine through Ukrainian contacts in Poland and émigré contacts in Argentina, Australia, Canada, Spain, Sweden, and elsewhere. The newspaper Suchasna Ukrainia (Ukraine Today), information bulletins, a Ukrainian language journal for intellectuals called Suchasnist (The Present), and other publications were sent to libraries, cultural institutions, administrative offices and private individuals in Ukraine. These activities encouraged Ukrainian nationalism…”

The CIA bought and paid for a brand of Ukrainian Nationalism à la Lebed. One of the most horrifying butchers of OUN/UPA was given reign to shape the hearts and minds of the Ukrainian people around their nationalist identity, an identity as defined by the OUN. It has also shaped historical and cultural interpretation such as to further romanticise the concept of the great Ukrainian race of Volodymyr the Great, encouraging a further sense of superiority and further divide between themselves and Belarussians and Russians.

One CIA analyst judged that, “some form of nationalist feeling continues to exist [in the Ukraine] and…there is an obligation to support it as a cold war weapon.”[21]

Breitman and Goda continue:
“…Prolog [also] influenced [the next] Ukrainian generation…Prolog had become in the words of one senior CIA official, the sole ‘vehicle for CIA’s operations directed at the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic and [its] forty million Ukrainian citizens.’

Lebed overtly distanced himself and the Ukrainian nationalist movement from the overt anti-Semitism of his Banderist days…More to protect the name of Ukrainian nationalism, he publicly condemned the ‘provocative libel’ and ‘slanderous statements’ against Jews, adding in a particularly forgetful note that, ‘the Ukrainian people…are opposed to all and any preaching of hatred for other people.’…Former Banderists…now attacked the Soviets for anti-Semitism rather than with it.
Lebed retired in 1975 but remained an adviser and consultant to Prolog and the ZP/UHVR…In the 1980s AERODYNAMIC’s name was changed to QRDYNAMIC and in the 1980s PDDYNAMIC and then QRPLUMB. In 1977 President Carter’s National Security Advisor Zbigniew Brzezinski helped to expand the program owing to what he called its ‘impressive dividends’ and the ‘impact on specific audiences in the target area.’ In the 1980s Prolog expanded its operation to reach other Soviet nationalities, and in a supreme irony, these included dissident Soviet Jews. With the USSR teetering on the brink of collapse in 1990, QRPLUMB was terminated with a final payout of $1.75 million. Prolog would continue its activities, but it was on its own financially.

In June 1985 the General Accounting Office mentioned Lebed’s name in a public report on Nazis and collaborators who settled in the United States with help from U.S. intelligence agencies. The Office of Special Investigations (OSI) in the Department of Justice began investigating Lebed that year. The CIA worried that public scrutiny of Lebed would compromise QRPLUMB and that failure to protect Lebed would trigger outrage in the Ukrainian émigré community. It thus shielded Lebed by denying any connection between Lebed and the Nazis and by arguing that he was a Ukrainian freedom fighter. The truth, of course, was more complicated. As late as 1991 the CIA tried to dissuade OSI from approaching the German, Polish, and Soviet governments for war-related records related to the OUN. OSI eventually gave up the case, unable to procure definitive documents on Lebed.”

Mykola Lebed died in 1998 under the protection of the CIA in New Jersey at the age of 89. His papers are located at the Ukrainian Research Institute at Harvard University.

Thus, it is no coincidence that the OUN ideology is inextricable from the Western Ukrainian nationalist identity today, nor that several neo-Nazi groups have formed since 1991 (since Ukraine’s independence from the USSR) who all view the OUN and Stepan Bandera as the Father of their movement.

For more on this story see my book “The Empire on Which the Black Sun Never Set: The Birth of International Fascism and Anglo-American Foreign Policy”, free previews of chapters are available on my Substack Through A Glass Darkly.
  1. For more on this refer to Chapter 14 of my book “The Empire on Which the Black Sun Never Set: The Birth of International Fascism and Anglo-American Foreign Policy”. ↑
  2. Breitman, Richard; Goda, Norman J.W. et al. (2005) U.S. Intelligence and The Nazis. National Archives & Cambridge University Press, pg. 65. ↑
  3. Throughout this chapter anything marked in bold or underlined is to be considered ‘emphasis added.’ ↑
  4. Breitman, Richard; Goda, Norman J.W. et al. (2005) U.S. Intelligence and The Nazis. National Archives & Cambridge University Press, pg. 249. ↑
  5. Generalplan Ost was the Nazi German government’s plan for the genocide and ethnic cleansing on a vast scale, and colonization of Central and Eastern Europe by Germans. It was to be undertaken in territories occupied by Germany during World War II. The plan was attempted during the war, resulting indirectly and directly in the deaths of millions by shootings, starvation, disease, extermination through labor, and genocide. However, its full implementation was not considered practicable during major military operations, and never materialized due to Germany’s defeat. “As a matter of fact, Hitler wanted to commit Genocide against the Slavic peoples, in order to colonize the East” [Empire, Colony, Genocide: Conquest, Occupation, and Subaltern Resistance in World History by A. Dirk Moses, Berghahn Books, 2008, pg. 20.] ↑
  6. Breitman, Richard; Goda, Norman J.W. (2011) Hitler’s Shadow Nazi War Criminals, U. S. Intelligence, and the Cold War. National Archives, pg. 74. ↑
  7. Breitman, Richard; Goda, Norman J.W. (2011) Hitler’s Shadow Nazi War Criminals, U. S. Intelligence, and the Cold War. National Archives, pg. 75-76. ↑
  8. Snyder, Timothy. (2004) The Reconstruction of Nations. New Haven: Yale University Press, pg. 164. ↑
  9. Breitman, Richard; Goda, Norman J.W. et al. (2005) U.S. Intelligence and The Nazis. National Archives & Cambridge University Press, pg. 250. ↑
  10. Ibid, pg. 250. ↑
  11. Ibid, pg. 251. ↑
  12. Breitman, Richard; Goda, Norman J.W. (2011) Hitler’s Shadow Nazi War Criminals, U. S. Intelligence, and the Cold War. National Archives, pg. 78. ↑
  13. Breitman, Richard; Goda, Norman J.W. et al. (2005) U.S. Intelligence and The Nazis. National Archives & Cambridge University Press, pg. 251. ↑
  14. Ibid, pg. 252. ↑
  15. Ibid, pg. 252. ↑
  16. Ibid, pg. 253. ↑
  17. Breitman, Richard; Goda, Norman J.W. (2011) Hitler’s Shadow Nazi War Criminals, U. S. Intelligence, and the Cold War. National Archives, pg. 81. ↑
  18. Breitman, Richard; Goda, Norman J.W. et al. (2005) U.S. Intelligence and The Nazis. National Archives & Cambridge University Press, pg. 254. ↑
  19. Breitman, Richard; Goda, Norman J.W. (2011) Hitler’s Shadow Nazi War Criminals, U. S. Intelligence, and the Cold War. National Archives, pg. 76. ↑
  20. Ibid, pg. 87. ↑
  21. Ibid, pg. 89. ↑

Ukrainian Nationalism as a ‘Cold War Weapon’ | The Vineyard of the Saker

A bird's eye view of the vineyard
thesaker.is thesaker.is


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CaryC

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
wait-n-see said:
I would hazard a guess that it is not anywhere close to final as to who will actually send what and when. :hmm:

Maybe everyone is hoping someone else does the deed first so they don't have to follow through? Who really knows except for the ones in the "inner circle"? :strs:

@@@@

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1618014138827165697
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I haven't gotten to the end of the posts, much less the last page, so this may be up already, this article addresses it, but saw a headline at MSN that Biden is going to announce the sale Wed./today.

Backflip: U.S. Now Set to Approve Abrams Main Battle Tanks for Ukraine​


The White House is set to approve sending advanced M1 Abrams main battle tanks to Ukraine, U.S. officials said Tuesday, reversing a months-long policy of resisting the repeated calls of Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky for the same.

The U.S. announcement is expected to spark a similar one by Berlin approving Poland’s request to transfer German-made Leopard 2 tanks to Ukraine, according to one official.

The officials spoke on condition of anonymity because the decision is yet to be made public.

AP reports a decision to send 30-plus tanks could be announced as soon as Wednesday, though delivery and assignment could take months for the tanks to be delivered.

U.S. officials said details are still being worked out with the Zelensky administration even as a string of senior Ukraine government officials were sacked or resigned amidst a flurry of corruption claims Tuesday.

As recently as last week Under Secretary of Defense for Policy Colin Kahl told reporters the Abrams is a complicated, expensive, difficult to maintain and hard to train on piece of equipment, as Breitbart News reported.

He also noted U.S. defense chief Lloyd Austin has been keen to avoid providing equipment to Ukraine that “they can’t repair, they can’t sustain and that they over the long term can’t afford because it’s not helpful.”

Seven days later and the Biden administration has made a backflip, adding high grade battlefield weapons to the billions in other assorted aid packages already approved.

One official quoted by AP said the tanks would be bought under an upcoming Ukraine Security Assistance Initiative package, which provides longer-range funding for weapons and equipment to be purchased from commercial vendors.
The administration’s reversal comes just days after a coalition of more than 50 senior defense officials from Europe and beyond met in Germany to discuss Ukraine’s war needs, and battle tanks were a prime topic.

The likely plans to send the Abrams were first reported by the Wall Street Journal.

www.breitbart.com

U.S. Set to Approve Abrams Main Battle Tanks for Ukraine

The White House is poised to approve sending advanced M1 Abrams main battle tanks to Ukraine, U.S. officials said Tuesday.
www.breitbart.com www.breitbart.com
 
CaryC

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Abert said:
PS: NOTE to NATO - without question paint over the Black Iron Cross on the Leopards - you think the Russians are piss off now - I can just see the front page of Russia Newspapers / Webs - GERMANS TANKS are attacking RUSSIA AGAIN.
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Not only that but in the place where the largest tank battle in history took place. Russians won, but lost alot of tanks.
 
CaryC

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
wait-n-see said:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1618246429943926785
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I told oreally before I had him on ignore, that when the forced conscription started in Lviv, with just Ukrainians, that forced conscriptions of non-Ukrainians was next.

It's something that happens when 1) you're losing the war 2) can't replace the men dying.

The hint was, if everything he has said in the past was true, he wasn't safe, and as soon as they found him, he would be on the front line.

If any of y'all know people/family there tell them to get out, and get out now. It is not safe, it is war, and civilians will not be spared. The damn Russians are coming.
 
LightEcho

LightEcho

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Jaybird said:
I apologize to the whole forum. None of that should have happened out here. Should have been private.
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No, such a conversation should not even happen in "private". You are only concerned that everyone saw what you did. I am glad it was public as this kind of thing is unacceptable. A good principle is to say things to people over the internet that you would only say face to face. What you said would never have been said to me face to face. But you showed us the kind of mentality exhibited by the Azov nazis against the Russian-speaking people of eastern Ukraine and Odessa. My thanks to you for proving my point.
 
CaryC

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
BTW one of SB's aunts pulled up to the gas pumps and without paying much attention put diesel in her gas powered car. She did notice what she had done BEFORE she cranked it. So had it towed, and I think mostly just had to replace the gas tank.

Anyway, the relevance to the war:

Would it hurt to put diesel in a jet fuel powered Abrams M1A2 tank?

I remember seeing during the Iraq war those Abrams tanks heading out across the desert, and not far behind were their fuel trucks, those big honking 6-8 wheel jobs where the front two sets of tires turn. Super cool trucks. I told SB we NEED one of those. LOL

Anyway will Ukraine be getting any of those fuel trucks?
 
Zagdid

Zagdid

Veteran Member
CaryC said:
BTW one of SB's aunts pulled up to the gas pumps and without paying much attention put diesel in her gas powered car. She did notice what she had done BEFORE she cranked it. So had it towed, and I think mostly just had to replace the gas tank.

Anyway, the relevance to the war:

Would it hurt to put diesel in a jet fuel powered Abrams M1A2 tank?

I remember seeing during the Iraq war those Abrams tanks heading out across the desert, and not far behind were their fuel trucks, those big honking 6-8 wheel jobs where the front two sets of tires turn. Super cool trucks. I told SB we NEED one of those. LOL

Anyway will Ukraine be getting any of those fuel trucks?
Click to expand...
So, it seems that a good tactic would be to take out the fuel trucks. Once out of fuel the Abrams tank becomes less effective. Logistics is a science all to itself. I guess they are sending tank retrievers capable of handling the super heavy Leopards and the Abrams. Or, maybe they just let them sit and ask Uncle Sugar for more new ones.
 
jed turtle

jed turtle

a brother in the Lord
wait-n-see said:
Neo-Nazis and the Far Right Are On the March in Ukraine (part 3 of 3)

Five years after the Maidan uprising, anti-Semitism and fascist-inflected ultranationalism are rampant.​

By Lev Golinkin​

FEBRUARY 22, 2019​


ROMA POGROMS​

“‘They wanted to kill us’: masked neo-fascists strike fear into Ukraine’s Roma.” —The Guardian, August 27, 2018

Ukraine’s far right has resisted carrying out outright attacks on Jews; other vulnerable groups haven’t been so lucky.

Last spring, a lethal wave of anti-Roma pogroms swept through Ukraine, with at least six attacks in two months. Footage from the pogroms evokes the 1930s: Armed thugs attack women and children while razing their camps. At least one man was killed, while others, including a child, were stabbed.

Two gangs behind the attacks—C14 and the National Druzhina—felt comfortable enough to proudly post pogrom videos on social media. That’s not surprising, considering that the National Druzhina is part of Azov, while the neo-Nazi C14 receives government funding for “educational” programs. Last October, C14 leader Serhiy Bondar was welcomed at America House Kyiv, a center run by the US government.

Appeals from international organizations and the US embassy fell on deaf ears: Months after the United Nations demanded Kiev end “systematic persecution” of the Roma, a human-rights group reported C14 were allegedly intimidating Roma in a joint patrol with the Kiev police.

LGBT AND WOMEN’S-RIGHTS GROUPS​

“‘It’s even worse than before’: How the ‘Revolution of Dignity’ Failed LGBT Ukrainians.”—RFE, November 21, 2018

In 2016, after pressure from the US Congress, the Kiev government began providing security for the annual Kiev Pride parade. However, this increasingly looks like a Potemkin affair: two hours of protection, with widespread attacks on LGBT individuals and gatherings during the rest of the year. Nationalist groups have targeted LGBT meetings with impunity, going so far as to shut down an event hosted by Amnesty International as well as assault a Western journalist at a transgender rights rally. Women’s-rights marches have also been targeted, including brazen attacks in March.

ATTACKS ON PRESS​

“The Committee to Protect Journalists condemns a Ukrainian law enforcement raid at the Kiev offices of Media Holding Vesti…more than a dozen masked officers ripped open doors with crowbars, seized property, and fired tear gas in the offices.”—The Committee to Protect Journalists, February 9, 2018

In May 2016, Myrotvorets, an ultranationalist website with links to the government, published the personal data of thousands of journalists who had obtained accreditation from Russia-backed rebels in eastern Ukraine. Myrotvorets labeled the journalists “terrorist collaborators.”

A government-tied website declaring open season on journalists would be dangerous anywhere, but it is especially so in Ukraine, which has a disturbing track record of journalist assassinations. This includes Oles Buzina, gunned down in 2015, and Pavel Sheremet, assassinated by car bomb a year later.

The Myrotvorets doxing was denounced by Western reporters, the Committee to Protect Journalists, and ambassadors from the G7 nations. In response, Kiev officials, including Interior Minister Arsen Avakov, praised the site: “This is your choice to cooperate with occupying forces,” Avakov told journalists, while posting “I Support Myrotvorets” on Facebook. Myrotvorets remains operational today.

Last fall brought another attack on the media, this time using the courts. The Prosecutor General’s office was granted a warrant to seize records of RFE anti-corruption reporter Natalie Sedletska. An RFE spokeswoman warned that Kiev’s actions created “a chilling atmosphere for journalists,” while parliament deputy Mustafa Nayyem called it “an example of creeping dictatorship.”

LANGUAGE LAWS​

“[Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk] also made a personal appeal to Russian-speaking Ukrainians, pledging to support…a special status to the Russian language.”—US Secretary of State John Kerry, April 24, 2014

Ukraine is extraordinarily multilingual: In addition to the millions of Russian-speaking eastern Ukrainians, there are areas where Hungarian, Romanian, and other tongues are prevalent. These languages were protected by a 2012 regional-language law.

The post-Maidan government alarmed Russian-speaking Ukrainians by attempting to annul that law. The US State Department and Secretary of State John Kerry sought to assuage fears in 2014 by pledging that Kiev would protect the status of Russian. Those promises came to naught.

A 2017 law mandated that secondary education be conducted strictly in Ukrainian, which infuriated Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, and Greece. Several regions passed legislation banning the use of Russian in public life. Quotas enforce Ukrainian usage on TV and radio. (This would be akin to Washington forcing Spanish-language media to broadcast mostly in English.)

And in February 2018, Ukraine’s supreme court struck down the 2012 regional language law—the one Kerry promised eastern Ukrainians would stay in effect.

Currently, Kiev is preparing to pass a draconian law that would mandate the use of Ukrainian in most aspects of public life. It’s another example of Kiev alienating millions of its own citizens, while claiming to embrace Western values.

THE PRICE OF WILLFUL BLINDNESS​

These examples are only a tiny fraction of Ukraine’s slide toward intolerance, but they should be enough to point out the obvious: Washington’s decision to ignore the proliferation of armed neo-Nazi groups in a highly unstable nation only led to them gaining more power.

This easily predictable outcome is in marked contrast to Washington’s enthusiasm over the “Revolution of Dignity.” “Nationalism is exactly what Ukraine needs,” proclaimed a New Republic article by historian Anne Applebaum, whose celebration of nationalism came out right around the time that Ukraine green-lighted the formation of white-supremacist paramilitaries. A mere four months after Applebaum’s essay, Newsweek ran an article titled “Ukrainian nationalist volunteers committing ‘ISIS-style’ war crimes.”

In essay after essay, DC foreign-policy heads have denied or celebrated the influence of Ukraine’s far right. (Curiously, the same analysts vociferously denounce rising nationalism in Hungary, Poland, and Italy as highly dangerous.) Perhaps think-tankers deluded themselves into thinking Kiev’s far-right phase would tucker itself out. More likely, they simply embraced DC’s go-to strategy of “my enemy’s enemy is my friend.” Either way, the ramifications stretch far beyond Ukraine.

America’s backing of the Maidan uprising, along with the billions DC sinks into post-Maidan Kiev, make it clear: Starting February 2014, Ukraine became Washington’s latest democracy-spreading project. What we permit in Ukraine sends a green light to others.

By tolerating neo-Nazi gangs and battalions, state-led Holocaust distortion, and attacks on LGBT and the Roma, the United States is telling the rest of Europe: “We’re fine with this.” The implications—especially at a time of a global far-right revival—are profoundly disturbing.
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Question: how many of these “Jews” that the Ukrainians Nazis hate are actually part of the “Kazarian mafia” - ie: descendents of the Kazak empire who converted to Judaism under theat from the russian Tzar Back around 800 AD?
 
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C

Cedar Lake

Connecticut Yankee
vector7 said:
BREAKING - Putin is negotiating with Taliban on the purchase of US coalition military equipment that was left behind in Afghanistan as a result of the United States' hasty withdrawal in 2021 for use in the war against Ukraine.

$7.12B in aircraft, vehicles, weapons +

If this is true, and it’s really a smart move by the Russians, then I’m sure “Lord of War” Victor Bout is helping to facilitate the purchase.

I’m glad we traded him for that Trans basketball player.

biden.gif

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1618210806621163523
View: https://twitter.com/Bayrunner87/status/1618210806621163523?t=OFVd4ubsKkjV2uCrqizKpw&s=19
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You can't argue about Biden's Foreign Policy public record. For over 50 years.
Wrong decision, wrong vote. Wrong every single time.
Every Time, All the time.
Impeach him now, apply 25th Amendment, completely corrupt.
 
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Melodi

Melodi

Disaster Cat
About the "shame" cartoon (and similar stories and comments). Germany told the US to back off with the public sky screaming, or they would not get what they wanted. Most people in the US (some board members here excepted) probably have no idea the degree of "crazy" the US was stirring up regarding Germany and those tanks. They just seemed to think the more they demanded, yelled, screamed, threatened, and bullied in the public square; the faster Germany would be to comply. This showed a total lack of understanding on the part of the US State Department as to the effect this was having on the German public.

Think about how the US public would react if France or Canada were "demanding" the US provide weapons to some country in Africa or something. Imagine that they just kept screaming, pushing, and bullying 24/7; do you think the US public would be happy if the US just backed down and complied? How about if it were the "United Nations," demanding a 30 percent "carbon tax" or something?

Now, Germany said two things; they said they would "think" about sending tanks if the US backed off (which they finally did when Germany failed to meet the US "deadline," and that they would provide tanks if the US provided some of theirs.

There was a reason for this, and we see that reason in Russia's reaction. Germany knew that Russia would consider this an ACT OF WAR, and if Germany was going to push that button, they, by golly, The United States was going to do so as well - or no dice.

Now Russia considers BOTH Germany and the United States legitimate targets of war. Russia has said this. If only Germany had sent tanks, then only Germany would be a target. Now the US is also. Future historians will have a field day with this, as Russians are not known for making idle threats. This isn't Bagdad Bob or Ho Chi Min, this is the Russian Bear, and he's tired of being poked. This could get very ugly very fast, and soon no one may care about whose classified documents were found where.

This really is getting right up there with the Cuban Missle Crises. Only the public just isn't aware of that yet.
 
danielboon

danielboon

TB Fanatic
Turkey says country may leave NATO due to provocations in five to six months
11:09, 25.01.2023
Region:World News, Turkey


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Turkey's deputy chairman of Turkey's Motherland Party, Ethem Sancak, said Turkey could leave the North Atlantic Alliance in five to six months, the Aydinlik newspaper reported.
"NATO is forcing us to do so with its provocations. They are trying to pit us against our neighbor Greece. Turkey will leave NATO in five to six months. They are trying to drag us into the maelstrom in the Middle East. Finally, you see actions against the Koran in Sweden and the Netherlands," Sancak said.
He also noted that recent polls have shown that at least 80 percent of the Turkish population believes the U.S. is a country that has a hostile and destructive policy toward the republic.
"Recently, the Turkish people have become sympathetic to Russia and [Russian President Vladimir] Putin," the politician concluded. Turkey says country may leave NATO due to provocations in five to six months
 
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