wait-n-see
Veteran Member
The good old deep state is just practicing established business principals ..... never waste a chance to expand your own market share of what ever is being sold. 
ALERT RUSSIA INVADES UKRAINE - Consolidated Thread
- Thread starter danielboon
- Start date
Most people seem to believe that when tactical nukes are used, then it will escalate to strategic nukes rapidly.
However, that is only one possibility.
One might consider thinking like an arms dealer. Perhaps another alternative is
"if anyone ever uses a tactical nuke, then ANYONE can use a tactical nuke".
And tactical nukes simply become another weapon to sell on the arms market.
Think about North Korea vs South Korea or Pakistan vs India (over Kashmir) or Iran vs Israel or Iran vs Saudi.
It would ratchet up the terrorist game.
However, that is only one possibility.
One might consider thinking like an arms dealer. Perhaps another alternative is
"if anyone ever uses a tactical nuke, then ANYONE can use a tactical nuke".
And tactical nukes simply become another weapon to sell on the arms market.
Think about North Korea vs South Korea or Pakistan vs India (over Kashmir) or Iran vs Israel or Iran vs Saudi.
It would ratchet up the terrorist game.
mzkitty
I give up.
January 22, 2023
The speaker of Russia’s parliament warned Sunday that countries supplying Ukraine with more powerful weapons risked their own destruction, a message that followed new pledges of armored vehicles, air defense systems and other equipment but not the battle tanks Kyiv requested.
Russia official warns West of destruction for arming Ukraine - Follow Daily Trends Here
The speaker of Russia's parliament warned Sunday that countries supplying Ukraine with more powerful weapons risked their own destruction, a message that followed new pledges of armored vehicles, air defense systems and other equipment but not the battle tanks Kyiv requested.
dailytrends.io
Cedar Lake
Connecticut Yankee
I think that it's great to see & read other people's countries viewpoints even if they conflict with your viewpoint.
Even Russian viewpoints and the ''Global South''.
Makes a person think.
In a nutshell:
These are facts today that no one can dispute is that bad things that happened started this.
The intial Western Ukrainian citizens vs Eastern Ukrainian citizens [Civil War] conflict has grown into,
A Ukrainian vs Russia conflict which has grown into,
A Ukrainian, European Union [27 Nations], & NATO [30 Nations] vs Russia conflict, at this time today.
And some 300,000 people dead of all ages, probably another 300,000 crippled for life, unknown number of families destroyed and all of their futures destroyed. At this time.
Top Politicians have agreed that ''More weapons are needed", ''Weapons are the way to Peace'', ''Weapons are the only way to a negotiated peace''.
TOP PEOPLE, WOW.
And a Ukrainian National statement, ''Because we have weaponry, and the understanding of how to use it''.
WOW.
Everyone has the responsibility to sit & think about those words.
Are they right or are they wrong?
Makes a person think.
I understand your frustration - even here in the US we have a "Government" that almost NEVER acts in the best interest of the Citizens.
As for the March / April agreement (worked out between Russia’s top Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov and his Ukrainian counterpart Dmytro Kuleba in Turkey) and "evil forces" - easy one: The decision to scuttle the deal coincided with UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s April visit to Kyiv, during which he reportedly urged Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to break off talks with Russia for two key reasons: Putin cannot be negotiated with, and the West isn’t ready for the war to end.
So like the US (and most Western Nations) political leaders do what is in their best interest - Not their citizens - With 10's of Billions of dollars (without any tracking or audit) flowing into the most corrupt nation in Europe - well the message was clear - no WAR - no $$$ Simple as that.
At this point unless Ukrainians are able to remove their current criminal "leadership" this war will continue - especially as long as the West keeps sending them $$$ - Your "leaders" pocket Billions - your citizens die in the 100's of thousands
And as long as this goes on - eventually the Pro War group here in the US will push this to the point - where like Ukraine - Russian missiles will be hitting US cities!
intothatgoodnight
. . .
"All political power comes from the barrel of a gun."
— Mao Zedong
— Mao Zedong
intothegoodnight
Without question Ukraine's "loss" of their top PR / SPIN master is evident in this Ukrainian post -
Russian invasion forces indeed started a new ground offensive on #Zaporizhzhia. Drone video shows them conquering Ukrainian trenches. Same human wave tactic as in Donetsk with minimum tank / IFV support due to mine fields and Ukrainian superior ATGM.
So you have in this Ukrainian post - showing a few - unfortunate - Ukrainian troops being "taken out" being SPUN as somehow a positive because there is no Russian Armor due to their mine fields and ATGM (anti-tank missile)
I am sure the DEAD Ukrainian's shown in this PR SPIN feel good about that fact!
They say that the fight or flight response is an automatic physiological reaction to an event that is perceived as stressful or frightening.
I would assert that this is truncated - perhaps even propaganda.
Flight appears to be a response. They say that 15 million people have fled Ukraine.
And fight also appears to be a response as there are a couple hundred thousand Ukrainians fighting.
However, there appear to be several other responses.
- Deer in the headlights - freezing up.
- Entertainment. Watching the drama unfold from what seems to be a safe distance.
- Hiding. Diving down a rabbit hole or bunker.
Then there is the taking the big risk to make a pile of cash on the debacle or losing it all.
There are some people making a terrific amount of money on this little project.
I would assert that this is truncated - perhaps even propaganda.
Flight appears to be a response. They say that 15 million people have fled Ukraine.
And fight also appears to be a response as there are a couple hundred thousand Ukrainians fighting.
However, there appear to be several other responses.
- Deer in the headlights - freezing up.
- Entertainment. Watching the drama unfold from what seems to be a safe distance.
- Hiding. Diving down a rabbit hole or bunker.
Then there is the taking the big risk to make a pile of cash on the debacle or losing it all.
There are some people making a terrific amount of money on this little project.
LightEcho
Has No Life - Lives on TB
LOL, a $10,000 missile took out a $500 drone.
Good point - actually they have a VERY limited value - excellent against massed formations - troops - armor and bases. But in this trench warfare - not much more effective than a thermobaric bomb (also called an aerosol bomb, a vacuum bomb or a fuel air explosive) - actually they are more effective - in trench warfare (why Russia is useing them a LOT).
If / when we see them would likely be after a direct NATO entrance - supply and staging areas in Poland would likely be a prime target - only necessary for ONE hyper-sonic to get through AA defenses. Or we could see NATO do the same on Russian targets - Russia or NATO pulling the trigger first - same difference - this weapon and an expanded target list - airbases in Germany and others. (BTW - once again Russia has more tactical nukes than everyone else combined)
And yes with the big boys free to use them - game on for anyone else! Level the playing field - in more ways than one!
I was thinking more along the lines of "investment advice".
Gonna be some big money to be made in the market.
(sorry, that is just the way INTJs think)
Last edited:
wait-n-see
Veteran Member
Building a military to fight Russia, on the fly
Runtime - 22:40
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just a quick discussion by the guys about the amount of weapons being pledged to Ukraine right now, the insane escalation push by the deep state as they don't believe the Russians will do anything about what ever is done to them, as well as the apparent push by the deep state wanting Ukraine to so something, anything, against crimea.
wait-n-see
Veteran Member
sanctions anyone? Lets throw out another round of sanctions that won't mean anything but the eventual destruction of Europe.
We know, and they know we know, and we know they know that we know, and they know that we know that they know, ad infinitum ........
But at least the deep state will have generated years of sales for their favorite buddies, the military industrial complex.
If we had only listed to Ike when we had the chance.
@@@@
We know, and they know we know, and we know they know that we know, and they know that we know that they know, ad infinitum ........
But at least the deep state will have generated years of sales for their favorite buddies, the military industrial complex.
If we had only listed to Ike when we had the chance.
@@@@
Tristan
Has No Life - Lives on TB
sanctions anyone? Lets throw out another round of sanctions that won't mean anything but the eventual destruction of Europe.
We know, and they know we know, and we know they know that we know, and they know that we know that they know, ad infinitum ........
But at least the deep state will have generated years of sales for their favorite buddies, the military industrial complex.
If we had only listed to Ike when we had the chance.
@@@@
wait-n-see
Veteran Member
The desperation of the deep state stinks to high Heaven, eh?
From the same disgusting creature openly calling for the assassination of a world leader.
@@@
Sen. Lindsey Graham said he's 'tired of the s*** show' and that the US and Germany should send tanks to Ukraine: 'World order is at stake'
Kelsey Vlamis
Sat, January 21, 2023 at 8:28 PM CST
The South Carolina Republican visited Ukraine along with Democratic Sens. Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut and Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island. The three lawmakers, who have been supportive of sending additional aide to Ukraine, met with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.
"All three of us, one Republican and two Democrats, share the same goal — for Ukraine to drive the Russians out of Ukraine. To achieve that goal, the Ukrainian military needs tanks," Graham said during a press conference after the meeting and on Twitter. "I am tired of the shit show surrounding who is going to send tanks and when are they going to send them. Putin is trying to rewrite the map of Europe by force of arms. World order is at stake."
Graham's request came as American and German defense officials have been unable to agree on sending battle tanks to Ukraine. Kyiv has called for NATO and other European countries to send German-made Leopard 2 tanks, but doing so requires Germany's approval, as Insider's Jake Epstein previously reported.
German Chancellor Olaf Scholz has said he does not want to authorize sending the German-made tanks to Ukraine unless the US sends its own tanks, according to several reports. Kyiv has also called on the US to send powerful M1 Abrams tanks, but President Joe Biden has avoided doing so.
Western defense officials who met in Germany on Friday failed to come to an agreement on the matter, sparking criticism from officials in Ukraine and Poland. But officials from both the US and Germany suggested the latter may still authorize the Leopards to be sent and that in the meantime Germany would do an inventory of its own tanks. Poland has also said it may even send its Leopard tanks to Ukraine without Berlin's approval.
"To the Germans: Send tanks to Ukraine because they need them. It is in your own national interest that Putin loses in Ukraine," Graham said Friday. "To the Biden Administration: Send American tanks so that others will follow our lead."
Read the original article on Business Insider
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After all, he has no problem with Ukraine fighting to the last person. A fully depopulated Ukraine is no problem to him.
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Runtime - 0:25
5 months ago
From the same disgusting creature openly calling for the assassination of a world leader.
@@@
Sen. Lindsey Graham said he's 'tired of the s*** show' and that the US and Germany should send tanks to Ukraine: 'World order is at stake'
Kelsey Vlamis
Sat, January 21, 2023 at 8:28 PM CST
- Sens. Lindsey Graham, Richard Blumenthal, and Sheldon Whitehouse were in Kyiv on Friday.
- After meeting with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, Graham urged the West to send tanks.
- "Putin is trying to rewrite the map of Europe by force of arms," Graham said.
The South Carolina Republican visited Ukraine along with Democratic Sens. Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut and Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island. The three lawmakers, who have been supportive of sending additional aide to Ukraine, met with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy.
"All three of us, one Republican and two Democrats, share the same goal — for Ukraine to drive the Russians out of Ukraine. To achieve that goal, the Ukrainian military needs tanks," Graham said during a press conference after the meeting and on Twitter. "I am tired of the shit show surrounding who is going to send tanks and when are they going to send them. Putin is trying to rewrite the map of Europe by force of arms. World order is at stake."
Graham's request came as American and German defense officials have been unable to agree on sending battle tanks to Ukraine. Kyiv has called for NATO and other European countries to send German-made Leopard 2 tanks, but doing so requires Germany's approval, as Insider's Jake Epstein previously reported.
German Chancellor Olaf Scholz has said he does not want to authorize sending the German-made tanks to Ukraine unless the US sends its own tanks, according to several reports. Kyiv has also called on the US to send powerful M1 Abrams tanks, but President Joe Biden has avoided doing so.
Western defense officials who met in Germany on Friday failed to come to an agreement on the matter, sparking criticism from officials in Ukraine and Poland. But officials from both the US and Germany suggested the latter may still authorize the Leopards to be sent and that in the meantime Germany would do an inventory of its own tanks. Poland has also said it may even send its Leopard tanks to Ukraine without Berlin's approval.
"To the Germans: Send tanks to Ukraine because they need them. It is in your own national interest that Putin loses in Ukraine," Graham said Friday. "To the Biden Administration: Send American tanks so that others will follow our lead."
Read the original article on Business Insider
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After all, he has no problem with Ukraine fighting to the last person. A fully depopulated Ukraine is no problem to him.
@@@
Psychopath Graham likes profitting off Ukrainian deaths. "fight to the last man".
Runtime - 0:25
5 months ago
Nowski
Let's Go Brandon!
I cannot believe, that basterd Graham is from this area,
about 15 miles from where I am sitting, typing this post.
In the 10 years that I have been here, I have not encountered
anyone that admits, that they voted for the SOB.
I would say to his face, "what about the POS Biden".
This war would have already be over with, if it wasn't
for the POS Biden continuing to send billions of dollars,
to the most corrupt nation, to have ever existed.
Prayers now for the new Russia, a more Christian nation now,
than the new ZUSA, and that the new Russia is victorious
on the Ukraine battlefield.
Please be safe everyone.
Regards to all.
Nowski
about 15 miles from where I am sitting, typing this post.
In the 10 years that I have been here, I have not encountered
anyone that admits, that they voted for the SOB.
I would say to his face, "what about the POS Biden".
This war would have already be over with, if it wasn't
for the POS Biden continuing to send billions of dollars,
to the most corrupt nation, to have ever existed.
Prayers now for the new Russia, a more Christian nation now,
than the new ZUSA, and that the new Russia is victorious
on the Ukraine battlefield.
Please be safe everyone.
Regards to all.
Nowski
mzkitty
I give up.
Boris Johnson calls destruction in Ukraine "appalling."
View: https://twitter.com/i/status/1617249664272670721
View: https://twitter.com/i/status/1617249664272670721
Melodi
Disaster Cat
The US has put Germany in a nearly impossible position; at least, the coverage over here has been basically, "let's keep beating the Germans with a giant cement-filled trowel and force them to back down and do our will and send the tanks we don't want to send."
This is backfiring spectacularly. The more the Americans keep up the "ra-ra Freedom Fries ...er... tanks," the more significant percentage of the Germans poll as not wanting to send them. This is backing the German government into a corner where saying Yes, would make them look like American poodles, at least if they did it by the US deadline. They gave the US a way out and said, "if you send some of yours, we will send some of ours," but that wasn't good enough.
Then the press started stating that "all" the other European countries wanted Germany to send tanks (which does not seem to have been the case, at least not officially), only to have to climb down when that was only partly true.
If the US wants Germany to do this (or much of anything else), they have to back off. It is pretty well "accepted" in Europe (true or not) that the US blew up the oil pipeline hoping that Germans would freeze to death this Winter. That already has the German public rather "miffed" with the US. Now the US is trying to force the German Government in a way that makes their nation look very weak if they comply.
If the US just backs off, it might happen; but the current administration doesn't seem to know the meaning of the word (or understand that other nations have some pride and their agendas apart from the United States).
This is backfiring spectacularly. The more the Americans keep up the "ra-ra Freedom Fries ...er... tanks," the more significant percentage of the Germans poll as not wanting to send them. This is backing the German government into a corner where saying Yes, would make them look like American poodles, at least if they did it by the US deadline. They gave the US a way out and said, "if you send some of yours, we will send some of ours," but that wasn't good enough.
Then the press started stating that "all" the other European countries wanted Germany to send tanks (which does not seem to have been the case, at least not officially), only to have to climb down when that was only partly true.
If the US wants Germany to do this (or much of anything else), they have to back off. It is pretty well "accepted" in Europe (true or not) that the US blew up the oil pipeline hoping that Germans would freeze to death this Winter. That already has the German public rather "miffed" with the US. Now the US is trying to force the German Government in a way that makes their nation look very weak if they comply.
If the US just backs off, it might happen; but the current administration doesn't seem to know the meaning of the word (or understand that other nations have some pride and their agendas apart from the United States).
Knoxville's Joker
Has No Life - Lives on TB
So we could see Germany going turn coat and join up with Russia if Ukraine gets overtaken and Poland pays a high price. Moldova will be the tell tale on what happens next if Ukraine's attack and defense fails longer term.
Melodi
Disaster Cat
This thinking that either Germany (or any other European Country) is totally on board with anything the USA demands that they do, or that they want to do, or they will "turncoat" and "join up with Russia" is precisely the sort of thing that is so upsetting to both the Germans and a lot of other people over here. Anything is possible, but that doesn't seem likely, at least not at this point.
However, the Germans and other EU countries turned around and decided that rather than sending massive arms demanded by the US that other nations send (but the US doesn't want to send theirs) may resolve on their own to either stand down or try to work for truce followed by peace talks. With or without the US, that doesn't mean that will work; but it doesn't make the Germans want to be "allied" with Russia. But they do have their defense to think about, which they are doing, which isn't making the Americans very happy. The US always says they want Europeans to take more direct steps to improve and increase their militaries, but they tend not to be very happy about when they actually do.
I suspect that the US may get their tanks eventually, but not until they stop housing Germany like an eight-year-old who wants an X-box for Christmas, and yes, late last week, the nagging really was THAT bad.
Melodi
Disaster Cat
See, they will let Poland do it, that's a German way of offering a compromise and not looking like an American lapdog.
Cedar Lake
Connecticut Yankee
24 Signs That You’re an INTJ Personality Type
The INTJ is logic-driven personality type with a talent for solving problems and a focus on accomplishing goals. INTJs are capable of forecasting far out into the future with an astonishing level of accuracy. Out of the 16 Myers-Briggs personality types, it’s possible that no other type is more focused on strategic planning than the INTJ personality.Hmmmm, gonna listen to what Raven says more intently.
Had to look this up, didn't understand the abbreviation.
Thought it was some weird unique Ukrainian gender-bender description.
Am TOTALLY at a LOSS of WORDS on this!!! (almost)
The ultimate example of Scraping the Barrel - this is SO over the top that even the Babylon Bee (definitive source of fake news you can trust) & SATIRE would find this so totally beyond reality as to even attempt to make up a fake story on!
US General Wants Cuba, Venezuela to Send Russian Weapons to Ukraine in Exchange for US Weapons
This - not from some low level - but from Laura Richardson a four-star general in the United States Army who is the commander of United States Southern Command since October 29, 2021.
Not even sure where to start????
First what US Weapons do we have to trade for their old Soviet Tanks (or aircraft)??? Not an armor guy - but I am not aware of any export tanks the US makes? Unlikely - but not impossible - we may still have some thousands of Sherman's and Pershings in storage since WW2 and Korea? Or is this a workaround on the German Tanks - can't send them to Ukraine - so to South America? Who knows - but this is not an off the cuff comment - no FOUR STAR - makes statements like this without several review and approvals!
More important - WHY would Venezuela and Cuba & others even want to help - or even talk to us!
Just a year or so ago the US sponsored an attempted military coup in Venezuela (failed) - massive finical sanctions on them as along with Cuba. Likely the only way - especially now that the STINK of US desperation can be smelled world wide - a total lifting of all sanctions and (not needing old Sherman's) a premium $$$ price for their old armor. Given that both Cuba and Venezuela have much better relations with Russia than the US - the PRICE would have to be an offer too good to refuse!
The real issue is that this delusional and desperate "plan" is coming from the top of our Southern Command and only points out how incompetent our military has become.
The same generals that I am sure are telling Biden - no problem rolling over Russia - won't even break a sweat.
humanevents.com
The ultimate example of Scraping the Barrel - this is SO over the top that even the Babylon Bee (definitive source of fake news you can trust) & SATIRE would find this so totally beyond reality as to even attempt to make up a fake story on!
US General Wants Cuba, Venezuela to Send Russian Weapons to Ukraine in Exchange for US Weapons
This - not from some low level - but from Laura Richardson a four-star general in the United States Army who is the commander of United States Southern Command since October 29, 2021.
Not even sure where to start????
First what US Weapons do we have to trade for their old Soviet Tanks (or aircraft)??? Not an armor guy - but I am not aware of any export tanks the US makes? Unlikely - but not impossible - we may still have some thousands of Sherman's and Pershings in storage since WW2 and Korea? Or is this a workaround on the German Tanks - can't send them to Ukraine - so to South America? Who knows - but this is not an off the cuff comment - no FOUR STAR - makes statements like this without several review and approvals!
More important - WHY would Venezuela and Cuba & others even want to help - or even talk to us!
Just a year or so ago the US sponsored an attempted military coup in Venezuela (failed) - massive finical sanctions on them as along with Cuba. Likely the only way - especially now that the STINK of US desperation can be smelled world wide - a total lifting of all sanctions and (not needing old Sherman's) a premium $$$ price for their old armor. Given that both Cuba and Venezuela have much better relations with Russia than the US - the PRICE would have to be an offer too good to refuse!
The real issue is that this delusional and desperate "plan" is coming from the top of our Southern Command and only points out how incompetent our military has become.
The same generals that I am sure are telling Biden - no problem rolling over Russia - won't even break a sweat.
US General Wants Cuba, Venezuela to Send Russian Weapons to Ukraine in Exchange for US Weapons
The United States wants nine countries in Central America, South America and the Caribbean to “donate” their Russian military equipment to Ukraine.
humanevents.com
LightEcho
Has No Life - Lives on TB
This is worse than I first thought. She is offering to replace their old soviet crap with new US weapons??? And this just so that we don't have a direct transfer of US mfr weapons to Ukraine?? And of course, the cha-ching $$ of US weapons manufacturers will likely chip in a few bennies for the big girl.Am TOTALLY at a LOSS of WORDS on this!!! (almost)
The ultimate example of Scraping the Barrel - this is SO over the top that even the Babylon Bee (definitive source of fake news you can trust) & SATIRE would find this so totally beyond reality as to even attempt to make up a fake story on!
US General Wants Cuba, Venezuela to Send Russian Weapons to Ukraine in Exchange for US Weapons
This - not from some low level - but from Laura Richardson a four-star general in the United States Army who is the commander of United States Southern Command since October 29, 2021.
Not even sure where to start????
First what US Weapons do we have to trade for their old Soviet Tanks (or aircraft)??? Not an armor guy - but I am not aware of any export tanks the US makes? Unlikely - but not impossible - we may still have some thousands of Sherman's and Pershings in storage since WW2 and Korea? Or is this a workaround on the German Tanks - can't send them to Ukraine - so to South America? Who knows - but this is not an off the cuff comment - no FOUR STAR - makes statements like this without several review and approvals!
More important - WHY would Venezuela and Cuba & others even want to help - or even talk to us!
Just a year or so ago the US sponsored an attempted military coup in Venezuela (failed) - massive finical sanctions on them as along with Cuba. Likely the only way - especially now that the STINK of US desperation can be smelled world wide - a total lifting of all sanctions and (not needing old Sherman's) a premium $$$ price for their old armor. Given that both Cuba and Venezuela have much better relations with Russia than the US - the PRICE would have to be an offer too good to refuse!
The real issue is that this delusional and desperate "plan" is coming from the top of our Southern Command and only points out how incompetent our military has become.
The same generals that I am sure are telling Biden - no problem rolling over Russia - won't even break a sweat.
US General Wants Cuba, Venezuela to Send Russian Weapons to Ukraine in Exchange for US Weapons
The United States wants nine countries in Central America, South America and the Caribbean to “donate” their Russian military equipment to Ukraine.
Amazing.
Knoxville's Joker
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Germany is also a bit of a pickle as there are still some irritated over the treatment from the cold war and WW2.
As you say Germany has some backbone and if the US does not stop it will create even more of a rift with the US.
And no matter what both sides are getting royally pissed about things. Especially if the US insists Germany does things their way...
Knoxville's Joker
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Interestingly they are trying to do a weapons build up similar to what Germany did in the 20s and 30s... But because idiots are in charge they are not going to be able to retool old manufacturers to crank out what is needed...
Good post; but if the drone is armed with a camera it could do far more than $10,000 worth of damage.
Ragnarok
On and On, South of Heaven
LightEcho
Has No Life - Lives on TB
True! If it is directing artillery, it could cause alot of deaths as well as hardware destruction. The technology war is getting evermore ugly. Fleets of drones are coming. They have been advertising air-droppable small drones carrying individual anti-personnel charges. These swarms- 20-50+ units can home in without further guidance on warm bodies and blow. Like homing hand grenades. Imagine the problem of these causing injuries and some deaths for an infantry platoon or a headquarters area.
wait-n-see
Veteran Member
Now lets see if Poland actually makes a formal request for that, and then if any ever get sent, and if they get sent, will it be more than a token number?
Still a long way to go with many possible derailments before any Leopards tanks arrive at the front line in Ukraine.
wait-n-see
Veteran Member
Am TOTALLY at a LOSS of WORDS on this!!! (almost)
The ultimate example of Scraping the Barrel - this is SO over the top that even the Babylon Bee (definitive source of fake news you can trust) & SATIRE would find this so totally beyond reality as to even attempt to make up a fake story on!
US General Wants Cuba, Venezuela to Send Russian Weapons to Ukraine in Exchange for US Weapons
This - not from some low level - but from Laura Richardson a four-star general in the United States Army who is the commander of United States Southern Command since October 29, 2021.
Not even sure where to start????
First what US Weapons do we have to trade for their old Soviet Tanks (or aircraft)??? Not an armor guy - but I am not aware of any export tanks the US makes? Unlikely - but not impossible - we may still have some thousands of Sherman's and Pershings in storage since WW2 and Korea? Or is this a workaround on the German Tanks - can't send them to Ukraine - so to South America? Who knows - but this is not an off the cuff comment - no FOUR STAR - makes statements like this without several review and approvals!
More important - WHY would Venezuela and Cuba & others even want to help - or even talk to us!
Just a year or so ago the US sponsored an attempted military coup in Venezuela (failed) - massive finical sanctions on them as along with Cuba. Likely the only way - especially now that the STINK of US desperation can be smelled world wide - a total lifting of all sanctions and (not needing old Sherman's) a premium $$$ price for their old armor. Given that both Cuba and Venezuela have much better relations with Russia than the US - the PRICE would have to be an offer too good to refuse!
The real issue is that this delusional and desperate "plan" is coming from the top of our Southern Command and only points out how incompetent our military has become.
The same generals that I am sure are telling Biden - no problem rolling over Russia - won't even break a sweat.
US General Wants Cuba, Venezuela to Send Russian Weapons to Ukraine in Exchange for US Weapons
The United States wants nine countries in Central America, South America and the Caribbean to “donate” their Russian military equipment to Ukraine.
Just think of all the money those maintenance contracts are going to bring into Lockheed Martin (f16) and General Dynamics (Abrams), as well as the upstream/downstream suppliers!
Dang, we all should have bought their stock.
CHA-CHING!!!! for the good old military industrial complex and their allies. Good times for sure!!
And why the Germans are going to be pissed losing those maintenance contracts for the Leopards that are lost once given to Ukraine. Contact becomes invalid once the product changes ownership.
von Koehler
Has No Life - Lives on TB
From military and logistics viewpoints, sending American tanks would be a big mistake.
Their tank engine is a turbine type, more like a jet engine and sucks up fuel. The Ukainians have no experience with maintaining such a complex tank. This is something you don't learn to do in a couple of months.
Better a conventional diesel engine, they far more familiar with.
That would be horrid.
Knoxville's Joker
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Which is why I regard some of this ukraine stuff as an inter period war build up activity.
The concern or elephant in the room is if Russia ends up winning through things, europe is greatly disarmed, causing another potential blitzkreig if Russia can not be stopped, or proceeds in a manner that makes nuclear retaliation a no go option.
AlfaMan
Has No Life - Lives on TB
If we're going to send tanks, why not M60A3's? Those are far more in line from their on the ground maintenance capabilities. Plus the Israelis and Egyptians have upgraded versions that are far more capable than the original M60.
Knoxville's Joker
Has No Life - Lives on TB
I think we are dumping the bottom of the barrel. We come out on top in the end as we replace all consumed stuff with brand new units. There is also concerns of russia capturing things and figuring out counters for our technology...
The heck with removing sanctions.Am TOTALLY at a LOSS of WORDS on this!!! (almost)
The ultimate example of Scraping the Barrel - this is SO over the top that even the Babylon Bee (definitive source of fake news you can trust) & SATIRE would find this so totally beyond reality as to even attempt to make up a fake story on!
US General Wants Cuba, Venezuela to Send Russian Weapons to Ukraine in Exchange for US Weapons
This - not from some low level - but from Laura Richardson a four-star general in the United States Army who is the commander of United States Southern Command since October 29, 2021.
Not even sure where to start????
First what US Weapons do we have to trade for their old Soviet Tanks (or aircraft)??? Not an armor guy - but I am not aware of any export tanks the US makes? Unlikely - but not impossible - we may still have some thousands of Sherman's and Pershings in storage since WW2 and Korea? Or is this a workaround on the German Tanks - can't send them to Ukraine - so to South America? Who knows - but this is not an off the cuff comment - no FOUR STAR - makes statements like this without several review and approvals!
More important - WHY would Venezuela and Cuba & others even want to help - or even talk to us!
Just a year or so ago the US sponsored an attempted military coup in Venezuela (failed) - massive finical sanctions on them as along with Cuba. Likely the only way - especially now that the STINK of US desperation can be smelled world wide - a total lifting of all sanctions and (not needing old Sherman's) a premium $$$ price for their old armor. Given that both Cuba and Venezuela have much better relations with Russia than the US - the PRICE would have to be an offer too good to refuse!
The real issue is that this delusional and desperate "plan" is coming from the top of our Southern Command and only points out how incompetent our military has become.
The same generals that I am sure are telling Biden - no problem rolling over Russia - won't even break a sweat.
US General Wants Cuba, Venezuela to Send Russian Weapons to Ukraine in Exchange for US Weapons
The United States wants nine countries in Central America, South America and the Caribbean to “donate” their Russian military equipment to Ukraine.
We can just invade Cuba and take their weapons and load them up on boats.
Could be finished by next weekend.
Make it the 51st state and piss Puerto Rico off.
LOL
von Koehler
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Trouble is, Biden has already gifted Russian R&D with goodies abandoned in Afghanistan.