I would agree,
But whether its Ukraine or Russia, boasting, real or imagined, is part of their DNA. They can’t help themselves.
ALERT RUSSIA INVADES UKRAINE - Consolidated Thread
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But whether its Ukraine or Russia, boasting, real or imagined, is part of their DNA. They can’t help themselves.
But the official line (easy to say if it does not impact you):
Zelensky’s wife said that 90% of Ukrainians are ready to live without electricity and heat for three years.
Zagdid
Veteran Member
Is she Ukrainian as well?
FreedomoftheHills
Contributing Member
i am getting a lot of email from friends all over the country. people are definitely freaking out, but no one is in panic mode as of yet. or ready to give in. indeed the opposite.
it seems as long as there is enough power to enable net connection through phones at least once a day, people seem willing to put up with the situation. several people have moved to family homes in the villages. cold, but wood stoves are in use.
went wood scouting today, and there is plenty right now. i was considering a pile of recently downed trees and branches and a group of 20s guys were walking by and did not give it a second thought.
i can't see how several million more people can evac to the EU now. especially if the thought strikes everyone at the same time. like after a big snowfall.
also passed a soup line on the way to the park. lots of poorer folk in line for hot soup and tea. never saw that before.
may have to take someone in next week.
4 months to go.
it seems as long as there is enough power to enable net connection through phones at least once a day, people seem willing to put up with the situation. several people have moved to family homes in the villages. cold, but wood stoves are in use.
went wood scouting today, and there is plenty right now. i was considering a pile of recently downed trees and branches and a group of 20s guys were walking by and did not give it a second thought.
i can't see how several million more people can evac to the EU now. especially if the thought strikes everyone at the same time. like after a big snowfall.
also passed a soup line on the way to the park. lots of poorer folk in line for hot soup and tea. never saw that before.
may have to take someone in next week.
4 months to go.
CaryC
Has No Life - Lives on TB
I suspect that the reason there is over 10,000 more km of regular track as compared to electrified track, and 1300 more engines than diesel is ........as has be reported with US Trucks.......electric train engines can't pull as much weight as diesel/electric.
Go green LOL
well, they have almost 1 year down . . . only two more to go
Cedar Lake
Connecticut Yankee
Extremely stupid to say that 90% of Ukrainians are ready to live without electricity and heat for three years. What happens after 3 years?
Maybe Ukraine Should Hire Tom Bodett?
24 November 2022 by Larry Johnson 44 Comments
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Since NATO supplied air defense systems are failing to stop Russia’s relentless missile attack on Ukraine’s electrical and power grid, may be it is time for Volodymyr Zelensky to bring in Tom Bodett. Most U.S. residents know Tom Bodett because of his tag line in a Motel 6 commercial — i.e., “We’ll leave the light on for you.”
View: https://youtu.be/SLqGDDMBCyc
Bodett’s promise to keep a light on stands in stark contrast to the reality facing Kiev and Lviv and other major cities across Ukraine. Ukraine, even with NATO support, is struggling to keep the lights and heat on. It is a grim situation and will only get worse in the coming days as temperatures continue to plummet and Ukriane’s power generating system degenerates. Gonzalo Lira provides a report from the front lines on this reality.
RT 16:47
View: https://youtu.be/JkH63nn5J9I
Gonzalo sent me some additional comments that are salient:
So an electrical outage might be two hours or forever—you cannot find out while you’re waiting. This uncertainty is what I think will drive a HUGE number of people to lose their nerve and flee to the West. Which is why I think a second migration wave this winter is definitely coming to Europe, from Ukraine. And since this wave will not be by rail—obviously, because no electricity means no rail system—then it’s going to be by car. Which will be chaotic, disorganized, completely clogging up the roads as whatever vehicle is available will be used by civilians to get out. And of course, many of these vehicles will run out of gas in this parking lot, creating even more havoc.There’s another factor: Heating cars. Most people keep their cars in heated garages during the winter. Car batteries die very quickly when it’s 15 below 0. If there’s no electricity, there’ll be no heat—so cars might not run, once winter fully sets in. That might factor into people’s decisions whether to leave or stay, or whether they CAN leave or stay. If your car battery is dead and there’s no electricity to charge it, your car becomes a tchotchke.Bottom line, it’s going to get supremely ugly, if the power is permanently cut in Ukraine. Because it is not possible to survive in this winter climate without heat and water, and the entire infrastructure to deliver both is dependent on electricity, with no substitutes or practical large-scale workarounds.
The war in Ukraine has exposed the fact that United States and NATO do not have a viable anti-missile defense system that can shoot down Russian hyper sonic missiles. Russia enjoys a clear technological edge over the West, not just with viable hyper sonic missiles but with an integrated air defense system that is designed to shoot down hyper sonics that the West does not yet have in its inventory of weapons systems.
I had planned to write more on this but Andrei Martyanov beat me to the punch with his piece, Hypersonic Ad Nauseam On Thanksgiving. He writes:
Hypersonic Ad Nauseam On Thanksgiving.
There is some constant media "movement" and hassle around the US program of development of hypersonic weapons, which even a few short years ...smoothiex12.blogspot.com
There is some constant media “movement” and hassle around the US program of development of hypersonic weapons, which even a few short years ago, especially before March 2018, very many in the US in general, and Pentagon in particular, counted as a gimmick and boutique weapon systems. Boy, did they miscalculate. Now, suddenly, the United States are into hypersonics big time primarily into what could be defined as medium-range glide body for CPS (Conventional Prompt Strike). . . .
And here is the point of which we can now start talking confidently. As I write non-stop and ad nauseam–NO weapons system, even the most advanced exists in the technological and operational vacuum, the thing which Pentagon still didn’t learn. Real integration comes with REAL, that is making operational sense and impact, integration of weapon system into the network of other weapons and systems which operate as unified organism. And here is the point: the United States now is involved in a life and death struggle with Russia, trying to preserve its increasingly untenable (and grossly exaggerated) status of a hegemon. But! But, if Russian hypersonic weapons created a revolution in military affairs, American ones will fail to do so. Here is an interesting explanation from Colonel (Ret.) Knutov, who today is a Director of Russia’s Air Defense Forces museum. This is how he assesses the US program and the state of the affairs.
I encourage you to read the entire piece. One of the other major consequences of Russia’s campaign to turn off the electrical power in Ukraine is the psychological damage inflicted on the population. Gonzalo mentions this in his video above. The modern generation, whether in Ukraine or the United States, is accustomed to having information in real time and readily available. Very few in modern industrial nations know what it is like to be cut off from news about world events. That knowledge or information plays a key role in shaping public attitudes. I lived in rural Honduras in 1978. We only had electricity, thanks to a generator, two hours a night. If I was lucky I was able to pick up a BBC broadcast and get some idea of what is going on in the world.
What we will see in the coming weeks from Ukrainians who remain in darkened, electricity starved cities are people cut off from their political leadership and filled with a genuine feeling of being abandoned. This is not an imaginary condition. People will be compelled by the cold, the lack of heat and dead batteries to come up with some sort of survival strategy. This will erode dramatically Ukraine’s ability to maintain a viable army in the field. Soldiers who, until now, have been able to phone home and chat with loved ones will no longer have that lifeline to the outside world.
Have you ever been in a situation where you were separated from a loved one and could not communicate with them for more than 24 hours, especially when you do not know if they are alive or dead? During World War I, soldiers in the trenches in France had no expectation of any immediate communication. They depended on letters from home for news and those communications were delayed by days and even weeks. But we live in a different era and there is now an expectation of immediacy. Once expectations are set at a high level and a gap emerges where reality falls far short of the expectations, that is a recipe for unrest and even revolt.
Can you imagine the withdrawal the 20 and 30 year olds in Ukraine will experience when their phones and computers are dead and they can no longer text or call a friend? I am not sure the intelligence communities of various nations have even taken time to cogitate on the implications of such a development. The most likely outcome is that people will vote with their feet and go to where they can charge their phones and make a call. This means mass emigration into neighboring countries with viable power girds.
What do you think?
===
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So they are not concerned with staying warm but instead the net being up?
My guess is passenger vs freight. Most of the passenger trains on the highly used tracks are electric.
i didn't mean to imply that, but that it is a relief valve for the anxiety. of course everyone is concerned about general winter.
they start another three years
Slav versus Slav is never pretty. It also has the chance of going damn Medieval.
Vicious fighting amongst Slavs during WWII in the Balkans.
Then, after all of those years since WWII, the Balkans exploded again during the 1991 Yugoslav War.
And here we are in 2022 and the Slavs are still going at it.
War never changes.
CaryC
Has No Life - Lives on TB
And I have to say I suspect that neither Mr. Z or Mrs. Z are going to be doing much if any freezing. So they can say like yea dude bring it.
OBTW Mr. Biden another 54 Billion do it for the freezing children. We'll distribute to the needy for sure. (10% for the big guy)
What happens when Putin's murderous regime ends?
Unwinding the current Russian Federation will remove the control Putin had over numerous frozen conflicts impacting the Republics along with the frozen conflicts and peacekeeping missions within the Russian Federation.
"When a regime collapses, it comes very slowly . . . then all at once."
25:09
View: https://youtu.be/Hs-UJI5LA_Q
Unwinding the current Russian Federation will remove the control Putin had over numerous frozen conflicts impacting the Republics along with the frozen conflicts and peacekeeping missions within the Russian Federation.
"When a regime collapses, it comes very slowly . . . then all at once."
25:09
Pax Russica: Will Russia's Defeat Lead to More Wars?
Nov 24, 2022
Chaplains have access to the front line cities under attack by the Russians. On Thanksgiving Day, we were able to bring Samaritan’s Purse operation Blessing help to those in need.
6:06
Thanksgiving Blessing for Ukrainians in the War Zone
View: https://youtu.be/mbTxv5Nu1hI
Chaplains have access to the front line cities under attack by the Russians. On Thanksgiving Day, we were able to bring Samaritan’s Purse operation Blessing help to those in need.
6:06
Thanksgiving Blessing for Ukrainians in the War Zone
wait-n-see
Veteran Member
Fully understandable and relatable.
With the connection to everyone and everything else that the internet provides, I think that life line is a major concern not only for those facing horrible situations but for those of us that are living without facing major traumatic situations and are mainly concerned with the day to day stuff of life and work, and preparing for Christmas.
Losing that connection results in an horrible feeling of isolation for those who want to stay current with outside events, be it news, hobbies or social circles.
Artificially Intelli
Senior Member
That is insane. Most won't make it 3 months.
Doc1
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Ah, so Mrs. Zelensky is vying to be a modern day Marie Antoinette, eh?
I've never been to Ukraine. In fact, I've never been to Europe, but I can bring up stats or read a world atlas as well as anyone. In the winter, Ukraine gets cold. Very cold.
Apply Mrs. Zelensky's statement to the residents of Toronto, Ontario or Buffalo, New York. No electricity or heat for three years? Seriously??? The fatalities would be staggering, especially among the older and infirm residents. The young and fit wouldn't get off lightly, either. In WWII the invading German soldiers going through Ukraine and Russia dropped in their thousands due to the effects of extreme cold. There were countless deaths and amputations. Remember that these were young infantrymen in top physical condition. They were not the children, middle-aged citizens or elderly who make up much of any country's population.
I have always chosen to live in warmer climates and am currently in southern Mississippi. Believe me, it gets cold down here. I even lived in central Florida when there was an unusual cold spell that brought sub-freezing temperatures to the Sarasota-Bradenton area (south of St. Petersburg). Here on the Mississippi Gulf Coast, while unusual, it's not unheard of for temperatures to drop into the single digits. I've personally experienced 8 degrees Fahrenheit within two miles of the Coast. That probably doesn't sound like much to someone from Minnesota, Wyoming or Illinois, but it's more than low enough to kill someone who's not prepared for it.
During the winter, the Deep South equates to warmer, not necessarily warm. Even on the Gulf Coast, it's not terribly unusual to hear of a homeless person who "succumbed to the elements" in January, which is just a more polite way of saying froze to death. I'm sure that if we lost utilities in December, January and February, there would be many, many people who 'succumbed to the elements.'
Ukraine and (most of) Russia have wickedly cold winters. How and why Mrs. Zelensky would make such an absurd statement escapes me. I am however certain that she - and the other elites - wouldn't be one of those people expected to freeze.
Best
Doc
More than likely the Hard-Liners take over - fact is Putin is actually a moderate. Most of the dissatisfaction he is facing is because he is going too EASY.
I find it amazing / delusional that people still think Ukraine is somehow going to defeat Russia!
HOW??? Currently 75-80%+ of power is off (and not coming back) Millions have moved out and projections for another 10+ million or so to move to EU nations for heat/food - a loss of around 50%+ of the population. (Prewar population of ~42 million , UN report July as 12 Million having moved our - projections of an additional 8 to 10M leaving due to winter)
Total industrial base is collapsed along with energy and transportation. Russia on the other hand has no such problem - industry (especially war related) running 24x7 - unlimited power and resources - and manpower - Ukraine has a smaller and smaller pool to pull from for Army replacements and eventually will run out - Russia has been expanding its Army with a much larger pool to pull from and if necessary can expand to deal with direct NATO involvement.
The only possible explanation for this Ukraine can Win PR / SPIN is to keep the money flowing - the US MIC and political slush funds do well - at the expense of average Ukrainians who are dying by the 10 of thousands - the longer this goes on the more will die.
mzkitty
I give up.
Almost looks like a shower of stars. Donetsk region tonight:
View: https://twitter.com/i/status/1596260825257639936
View: https://twitter.com/i/status/1596260825257639936
db cooper
Resident Secret Squirrel
That's one of the reasons the Uke propaganda is so thick. And the Uke's had good teachers in the Soviet era where just about anything put out by the government was a lie.
We are so lucking here in the USA where our very own MSM strives for the truth and our very own government never even tell the tiniest of half-truths. Just think, if we were lied to on a daily basis our country would be near ruins. /s/
db cooper
Resident Secret Squirrel
In small print at the bottom of the Russian article it says she's addicted to drugs. Interesting pair, she's snorting white powder while her husband plays the piano.
db cooper
Resident Secret Squirrel
xfg
And the Ukrainians are worried about no heat. Hey! Looks like the Ruskies are sending them some.Almost looks like a shower of stars. Donetsk region tonight:
View: https://twitter.com/i/status/1596260825257639936
coalcracker
Veteran Member
I’m thinking “Spring.”
Seems like a very good attitude to have. It’s nice having Oreally giving us this first hand info. The civilians are going to have a tough winter. Attitude matters, as you know.
Artificially Intelli
Senior Member
Yea that pretty well sums it up. Look i totally sympathize with the average nonnazi Ukrainian. They're eatin' a shit sandwich right about now. But anyone that believes that Ukraine is coming out on top of this, short of a NATO invasion, really is delusional.
Grumphau
Veteran Member
Well that was Slav vs Slav AND it was Catholic vs Orthodox vs Muslim.
jward
passin' thru
Rob Lee
@RALee85
2m
I think this is probably right. I suspect one of the main missions for Ukrainian SOF in the coming months will be to conduct diversionary raids across the left bank to prevent Russia from moving more forces to the Donbas or Zaporizhzhia.
View: https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1596307201970393089?s=20&t=lhcyajgm87UDWKMCy64mLA
@RALee85
2m
I think this is probably right. I suspect one of the main missions for Ukrainian SOF in the coming months will be to conduct diversionary raids across the left bank to prevent Russia from moving more forces to the Donbas or Zaporizhzhia.
View: https://twitter.com/RALee85/status/1596307201970393089?s=20&t=lhcyajgm87UDWKMCy64mLA
Probably too late to be thinking about this, but can you get hold of a good Swedish saw with some spare blades and an axe, maybe?
bw
Fringe Ranger
He already said he has both.
This Lee guy always seems to be behind the 8 ball in his prescience but that just puts him in a really large group of "experts". Russia's been steadily moving their remobilized reservists into the entire Donbass (from Kherson to Kharkov) for months now.
Latest estimates are the front's been augmented with 100,000 or so reservists whose contracts had run out in July or August (guesses range from 60,000 to 200,000 so I'm just grabbing a middle number) with about that many more coming as they need more complete training - including the tactical medical training they're getting as well as their various MOS - which the recently-released reservists didn't really need as they'd only left the service a couple of months before they were recalled. Some 60-80,000 volunteers over and above the mobilized number are also in training but they're starting from the basics and won't be deployed as soon as recently-released reservists.
Raids are going to happen IMHO, that's actually correct, but they're going to be anything but diversionary in terms of preventing force allocation, and they're liable to be largely suicide raids. The only thing which will protect them will once again be US intelligence spotting the more-vulnerable areas so they've got a better chance of escaping after the sabotage. A bunch of them will be lost while trying to make it back to their own lines through a series of lines where they'll be looking for them.
bw
Fringe Ranger
That's just disgraceful.
mzkitty
I give up.
spring
the hardware stores are pretty well stocked right now. getting a good ax right now is a good idea. but budget . . . will check out prices asap.
auxman
Ad eundum quo nemo ante iit...
He looks like a lizard... just like Sam Donaldson... hahahahahaAnd Putin has the gall to tell Russian moms that he feels their pain. He's always been slithery. He treats his troops like shit. No shame. It's disgusting. He's a friggin billionaire, he could have outfitted them himself personally, if it came to that. But he does. not. care.
