Ping Jockey
Inactive
Dalmor for the Scots in me, Connemara for the Irish in me and Jagermeister when the German in me wants to go blitzkrieg.I thought the same thing except Lagavulin.
Dalmor for the Scots in me, Connemara for the Irish in me and Jagermeister when the German in me wants to go blitzkrieg.I thought the same thing except Lagavulin.
Do Germans drink that dren?Dalmor for the Scots in me, Connemara for the Irish in me and Jagermeister when the German in me wants to go blitzkrieg.
According to the article at the Washington Post, the Russian Defense Ministry lodged a formal protest with the British Defense Attaché in Moscow for the "grave violation". In that protest, the Russians make the claim that they fired warning shots and dropped bombs in the path.
There is no reason to doubt when the "shooter", so to speak, admits to shooting.
However, the British say it did not happen. Nope. Nothing to see here. Oh sure, the Ruskies were were kind of over there having a training exercise. We could hear some popping and such and a nice air show with Migs flying by. But nothing happened. We was innocent. Just passing through da hood we din't violate any of dem white girls.
Innocent and sincere.
Summary:
Yes the British violated.
Yes the Russians fired some warning shots.
Yes the British altered course.
Yes they are preparing you to go to war with Evil Vlad.
And Yes the British are going to do it again - are willing to take a missile - and will have a missile cruiser on standby to return fire.
I must point out, that the UK did not violate Russian territorial waters. It sailed through Ukrainian waters, and as far as international law is concerned, the Defender could have docked at Sevastopol. Realistically the US could sail a carrier battle group up to Crimea without violating international law.The added spice is that there was a US intelligence gathering aircraft in the area, possibly to gauge the nature of the Russian response to the UK's violation of the Russian territorial waters.
British-EU NATO-led action - not necessarily about an *official* British attitude/perspective towards Russia, per se.What has generated the wrath of the British toward Russia ?
Russia says warning shots deter UK warship; London denies it
By VLADIMIR ISACHENKOV and JILL LAWLESS
7-9 minutes
MOSCOW (AP) — Russia said one of its warships in the Black Sea fired warning shots and a warplane dropped bombs Wednesday to force a British destroyer out of an area near Crimea that Moscow claims as its territorial waters, but Britain denied that account and insisted its ship wasn’t fired upon.
It was the first time since the Cold War that Moscow acknowledged using live ammunition to deter a NATO warship, reflecting the growing risk of military incidents amid soaring tensions between Russia and the West.
The Russian Defense Ministry said a patrol ship fired warning shots after the HMS Defender had ignored a notice against intrusion and sailed 3 kilometers (1.6 nautical miles) into Russia’s territorial waters near Sevastopol, the main Russian naval base in Crimea. It said a Russian Su-24 bomber also dropped four bombs ahead of the vessel to persuade the Defender to change course. Minutes later, the Defender left Russian waters, the ministry said.
Russian Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova denounced the “rude British provocation that defies international law,” and said London’s ambassador was being summoned. The Defense Ministry said it also called in the U.K. military attache in Moscow to protest the destroyer’s “dangerous move” and urged British authorities to investigate the crew’s actions.
Britain’s Ministry of Defense denied the Defender had been fired on or was in Russian waters, but had been in Ukrainian waters.
“No warning shots have been fired at HMS Defender,” it said in a statement. “The Royal Navy ship is conducting innocent passage through Ukrainian territorial waters in accordance with international law.”
Russia annexed Ukraine’s Crimean Peninsula in 2014, a move not recognized by most countries, gaining access to its long Black Sea coast. Russia has chafed at NATO warships visiting near Crimea as destabilizing. In April, it declared a broader area off Crimea closed to foreign naval ships.
“We believe the Russians were undertaking a gunnery exercise in the Black Sea and provided the maritime community with prior warning of their activity,” the British Ministry of Defense said. “No shots were directed at HMS Defender and we do not recognize the claim that bombs were dropped in her path.”
British Defense Secretary Ben Wallace said the Defender “carried out a routine transit from Odessa towards Georgia across the Black Sea.”
“As is normal for this route, she entered an internationally recognized traffic separation corridor,” he tweeted, adding that HMS Defender exited the corridor safely at 9:45 a.m. BST (0845 GMT; 4:45 a.m. EDT).
“As is routine, Russian vessels shadowed her passage and she was made aware of training exercises in her wider vicinity,” he added.
Speaking to Parliament’s defense committee, Wallace again denied Russia’s version of events.
“These are the things that come and go with Russia,” he said. “Disinformation, misinformation is something that we have seen regularly. We’re not surprised by it; we plan for it.”
Asked if Defender’s crew had seen or heard anything, he said “initial reports say they did hear or observe training noises somewhere to the rear of her but beyond visual range.”
“We saw the reports this morning,” said Max Blain, a spokesman for Prime Minister Boris Johnson. “It’s incorrect to say either that it was fired on or this ship was in Russian waters. HMS Defender was taking the most direct and internationally recognized route between Ukraine and Georgia.”
He emphasized that Britain, and much of the international community, does not recognize Russia’s annexation of Crimea.
Ukraine’s Foreign Minister Dmytro Kuleba said it was “clear proof of Ukraine’s position: Russia’s aggressive and provocative actions in the Black and Azov seas, its occupation and militarization of Crimea pose a lasting threat to Ukraine and allies.”
“We need a new quality of cooperation between Ukraine & NATO allies in the Black Sea,” Kuleba tweeted.
In November 2018, Russian coast guard ships fired on three Ukrainian gunboats trying to pass from the Black Sea into the Azov Sea and captured them along with 24 crewmembers. It returned the crew and the boats the following year.
HMS Defender, a Type 45 destroyer, is part of the U.K. Carrier Strike Group heading to the Indo-Pacific region. It was announced earlier this month that it would be temporarily breaking away from the group to carry out its “own set of missions” in the Black Sea.
Just before Wednesday’s incident, Defender stopped in the Ukrainian port of Odessa, where Ukrainian and British officials and industry representatives signed an agreement to collaborate on boosting Ukraine’s naval capabilities.
NATO members Turkey, Romania and Bulgaria border the Black Sea. Warships from the U.S., U.K. and other NATO allies also have made increasingly frequent visits in support of Ukraine.
Speaking before the incident, Gen. Valery Gerasimov, the chief of the General Staff of the Russian armed forces, sharply criticized the deployment of NATO warships near Russian waters.
“The moves by warships of the U.S. and its allies have been clearly provocative,” Gerasimov said at an international security conference in Moscow organized by the Defense Ministry. “It creates preconditions for incidents and doesn’t help ease tensions in the military sphere.”
He charged that the British destroyer HMS Dragon intruded into Russian waters near Crimea in October, and the U.S. destroyer USS John S. McCain violated the Russian border in the Sea of Japan in November.
In April, Russia imposed restrictions on foreign naval movements near Crimea until November in a move that drew strong complaints from Ukraine and the West. Russia rejected the criticism and noted the restrictions wouldn’t interfere with commercial shipping.
Earlier this year, Russia also bolstered its troops near the border with Ukraine and warned Kyiv against using force to reclaim control of the country’s eastern industrial heartland, where a conflict with Russia-backed separatists has killed more than 14,000 people in seven years. Moscow withdrew some of its forces after maneuvers, but Ukrainian officials say many of them remain.
Speaking earlier Wednesday via video to participants of the security conference, President Vladimir Putin expressed concern about NATO forces near Russia.
“We aren’t striving for a decisive, unilateral military advantage to tip the balance of forces in our favor,” Putin said. “But we will never allow anyone else to tip that balance.”
Russia’s relations with the West have sunk to the lowest levels since the Cold War, following Moscow’s annexation of Crimea, accusations of Russian interference with elections, hacking attacks and other tensions.
In a speech at the same conference before Wednesday’s incident, Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu said “the situation in Europe is explosive,” and accused NATO of stonewalling Russian proposals to enhance security by refraining from military exercises near the borders of Russia and alliance members.
He said “the world is rapidly sinking in a new confrontation, which is much more dangerous than during the Cold War times.”
Russia says warning shots deter UK warship; London denies it
Russia says one of its warships in the Black Sea fired warning shots and a warplane dropped bombs to force a British destroyer away from Russia’s waters near Crimea.apnews.com
Ahhhh... you do not know the Russian. Crimea will be returned when ol Satan himself/herself ( gotta be pc ) starts offering free ice skating lessons. To try applying so called western common sense to the Russian is a fool’s errand.The main thing you you need to understand, is nothing that comes from the Russian media is true. The second thing that you need to know, is the US media is not much better. In this case, Russia has no leg to stand on from the common sense point though. They "Annexed Crimea", so anything they claim about this situation is "whiny baby garbage". Eventually Crimea will be returned by negotiation, or by force. I think it is up to Russia to decide.
This was the test and the issue - Russia claims the territory pretty much by right of conquest (and historical reasons), Ukraine says it is still their territory under Russian occupation.I must point out, that the UK did not violate Russian territorial waters. It sailed through Ukrainian waters, and as far as international law is concerned, the Defender could have docked at Sevastopol. Realistically the US could sail a carrier battle group up to Crimea without violating international law.
The British want cheap natural gas.What has generated the wrath of the British toward Russia ?
Wow. I think we went to the same school.Ahhhh... you do not know the Russian. Crimea will be returned when ol Satan himself/herself ( gotta be pc ) starts offering free ice skating lessons. To try applying so called western common sense to the Russian is a fool’s errand.
I would not be surprised to see the Ukrainian border moved further west to the Dneiper River. If it does neither NATO nor the US will do anything to stop them. Except for major amounts of foot stamping, finger pointing, name calling, and a few beautifully crafted and well-spoken words from those ever-so-lovely and cheeky Brit news commentators. Maybe even throw in a few “harrumphs” in for good measure.
Love him or hate him the combined, feckless leadership of the EU, NATO, and the US couldn’t muster up a ladder high enough in the eyes of the Russian people to kiss Putin’s ass.
That is simply "not the case"I must point out, that the UK did not violate Russian territorial waters. It sailed through Ukrainian waters, and as far as international law is concerned, the Defender could have docked at Sevastopol. Realistically the US could sail a carrier battle group up to Crimea without violating international law.
No more brother wars.The British want cheap natural gas.
They want a pipeline through Syria but the Russian backed government of Syria said no, Thank You.
Because Russia wants to sell Europe natural gas piped through Ukraine.
When the Europeans could not get the natural gas through Syria,
They destabilized Syria destroying the country but never actually succeeding.
And destabilized the Ukraine and installed a pro EU government but created an ongoing civil war.
So the Russian sailors that retired to Crimea had an election and voted to rejoin Russia,
(because redrawing boundaries is one of the unpredictable things that happen during a civil war)
And then Russia built another pipeline to Germany through the Baltic,
which is going to really cut into the profits of the pro EU government in the Ukraine.
And through it all Russia has barely fired a shot and the shots it did fire did not hit anything.
So now the EU wants to start WWIII, so Americans can spill additional blood to save the pricks.
Remember whose overpaid kid was on the board of the Ukraine Natural Gas company?No more brother wars.
Well, it used to be- soon it'll be all about the water- but, yeah.Remember whose overpaid kid was on the board of the Ukraine Natural Gas company?
Biden
Its always about the "oil" (or natural gas)
That sounds very similar to, “Hi Sailor, new in town?”:: pulls out the best silver, crystal n booze :: Bars open, fellas, whatcha gonna tell us?
View attachment 273352
OMG. So not.That sounds very similar to, “Hi Sailor, new in town?”
I was in Bolivia a few years back camped out at the bar in a hostel for a month and there was a continuous flow of young Israeli kids that came through. Young men and women who had finished there "service obligations". Now, those kiddos would start buying drinks and man o man the stories would flow.OMG. So not.
..this mean yall don't "really" have any interestin' stories?
Security had been beaten into us so thoroughly that the idea of speaking about anything regarding, at least for me, my time on the boats is totally repugnant and contrary to our oaths.OMG. So not.
..this mean yall don't "really" have any interestin' stories?
Russia warns Britain it will bomb ships next time
Disclose.tv
@disclosetv
4m
JUST IN - Moscow warns UK that a repeat of an HMS Defender-style incident could lead to a full military conflict with Russia.
Russia warns Britain it will bomb ships next time
Guy FaulconbridgeKatya Golubkova
4 minute read
1/6
British Royal Navy's Type 45 destroyer HMS Defender is docked in the Black Sea port of Odessa, Ukraine June 18, 2021. REUTERS/Sergey Smolentsev
- Summary
LONDON, June 24 (Reuters) - Russia warned Britain on Thursday that it would bomb British naval vessels in the Black Sea if there were any further provocative actions by the British navy off the coast of Russia-annexed Crimea.
- Russia's warns Britain over navy confrontation
- Raab: Russia being 'predictably inaccurate'
- Britain says it will always defend seafaring rights
- Russia says London is sowing barefaced lies
Russia summoned the British ambassador in Moscow for a formal diplomatic scolding after the warship breached what the Kremlin says are its territorial waters but which Britain and most of the world say belong to Ukraine.
Britain said Russia was giving an inaccurate account of the incident. No warning shots had been fired and no bombs had been dropped in the path of the Royal Navy destroyer Defender, it said.
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In Moscow, Russia summoned Ambassador Deborah Bronnert for a reprimand over what it said were Britain's "dangerous" action in the Black Sea - while foreign ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova accused London of "barefaced lies".
"We can appeal to common sense, demand respect for international law, and if that doesn't work, we can bomb," Deputy Foreign Minister Sergei Ryabkov told Russian news agencies.
Ryabkov, referring to Moscow's version of events in which a Russian aircraft bombed the path of the British destroyer, said that in future bombs would be sent "not only in its path, but also on target."
The Black Sea, which Russia uses to project its power in the Mediterranean, has for centuries been a flashpoint between Russia and its competitors such as Turkey, France, Britain and the United States.
Russia seized and annexed the Crimea peninsula from Ukraine in 2014 and considers areas around its coast to be Russian waters. Western countries deem the Crimea to be part of Ukraine and reject Russia's claim to the seas around it.
Prime Minister Boris Johnson said the British warship, which was travelling from the Ukrainian port of Odessa to the Georgian port of Batumi, was acting in accordance with the law and had been in international waters.
"These are Ukrainian waters and it was entirely right to use them to go from A to B," Johnson said. British Defence Minister Ben Wallace accused Russian pilots of conducting unsafe aircraft manoeuvres 500 feet (152 m) above the warship.
"The Royal Navy will always uphold international law and will not accept unlawful interference with innocent passage," Wallace said.
Under international law of the sea, innocent passage permits a vessel to pass through another state's territorial waters so long as this does not affect its security.
Britain disputed the Russian version of events, with Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab calling it "predictably inaccurate".
BLACK SEA DISPUTE
During its 2008 war with Georgia, Russia bristled at U.S. warships operating in the Black Sea, and in April the United States cancelled the deployment of two warships to the area.
Ties between London and Moscow have been on ice since the 2018 poisoning with a Soviet-developed nerve agent known as Novichok of ex-double agent Sergei Skripal, a mole who betrayed hundreds of Russian agents to Britain's MI6 foreign spy service.
The British destroyer visited the Ukrainian port of Odessa this week, where an agreement was signed for Britain to help upgrade Ukraine's navy.
Russia said it had ventured as far as 3 km (2 miles) into Russian waters near Cape Fiolent, a landmark on Crimea's southern coast near the port of Sevastopol, headquarters of the Russian Navy's Black Sea fleet.
Britain's BBC released footage from the ship showing a Russian coast guard warning that he would shoot if the British ship did not change course.
"If you don't change the course, I'll fire," a heavily accented Russian voice said in English to the British ship. The BBC said shots were fired and that as many as 20 Russian aircraft were "buzzing" the British ship.
Britain said the shots were part of a Russian gunnery exercise. Russia released footage filmed from a Russian SU-24 bomber flying close to the British ship.
"These aircraft posed no immediate threat to HMS Defender, but some of these manoeuvres were neither safe nor professional," Britain's Wallace said.
Reporting by Guy Faulconbridge; Editing by Kate Holton
Russia warns Britain it will bomb ships next time
Russia warned Britain on Thursday that it would bomb British naval vessels in the Black Sea if there were any further provocative actions by the British navy off the coast of Russia-annexed Crimea.www.reuters.com
Brazen . . . well hell yea it was brazen. that does not make it bad. it was non violent. they had elections just like Biden's recent election as President. Could have been crooked as hell . . . but apparently crooked does not matter.Of course Russia will talk tough in order to validate it's brazen "annexation" of Crimea which is still internationally recognized as belonging to the Ukraine.
Then we can reliably await the Associated Press to swoop in with their preconceived political narrative of "Russia Bad" that permeated the entire domestic election cycle and continues to this day.
Chrome, you'll find readers here better versed in the historical, mid and near term causations of an event than most.
Additional familiarity with the place will undoubtedly reassure you that few, if any, need hand holding to read around
the biases and intents presented by the articles or the other posters' comments. Those, both the covert and overt, are readily clear to even the most casual readers.
We understand that the "real" story lies as much in what is not said, as what is, and in who is saying it, and why. The source materials are presented as snapshots of an event and are analyzed as such, not as tomes of the ultimate truth.
The hive mind handles the processing well
Your being more versed on near and mid-term causations than most on this board is due to your ability to converse in Russian? Hmmm... new one on me. I suppose I should brush up on my conversational Russian so I can catch up to your royal highness.Im not sure what that's about. Even though I'm new to this board, I'm a huge poster on others. This isn't my first rodeo, so let's start with the fact that I speak Russian. I am probably more versed on historical, mid and near term causations than most on this board!
If you really want to get into the mechanics of this situation, you really do have to look at history. There have been 12 Turko-Russia wars. Turkey, although accused of being buddies with Russia, serves it's own interests. Erdogan is trying to rebuild the Ottoman Empire, just as Putin is trying to rebuild the Soviet Union. Turkey does not like the occupation of Crimea, and is probably willing to go to war to free it's historical ties to the Tatars.
The Topic is:Your being more versed on near and mid-term causations than most on this board is due to your ability to converse in Russian? Hmmm... new one on me. I suppose I should brush up on my conversational Russian so I can catch up to your royal highness.
Then I suggest you stick to the subject of the thread and quit imbibing us with your vast historical knowledge of Turkish/Russian antics which, by the way, have nothing to do with the Russians firing warning shots at the stupid brits.The Topic is:
Russia fires warning shots at #British destroyer in Black Sea A Russian SU-24 jet also dropped bombs
Mr. Arrogant veteran member.
Look, I posted a comment. People on the board started making derogatory comments to me. I have a right to defend myself. As far as I'm concerned, you are a nobody and should leave the board if you are like these yoyos.Then I suggest you stick to the subject of the thread and quit imbibing us with your vast historical knowledge of Turkish/Russian antics which, by the way, have nothing to do with the Russians firing warning shots at the stupid brits.
Hmmm... I must have missed something in language school ref speaking conversant Russian and its ability to acquire historical knowledge through osmosis.