BRKG Russia fires warning shots at British destroyer in Black Sea. A Russian SU-24 jet also dropped bombs
- Thread starter jward
- Start date
The Turks lost Crimea 200 years ago and as much as Erdogan wants to recreate the Ottoman empire,
The Russians want Crimea and Sevastopol for its warm water port.
Probably the most important question is "do the Russians feel that Crimea is part of the motherland".
Which can be distilled further to "Can Vladimir Putin convince the Russian people that Crimea is Motherland".
Because for Russians Motherland is the personification of Russia.
The only positive note is the amount of restraint Putin has demonstrated in Syria. But Crimea is not Syria..
Russian sailors have been retiring in Crimea for 200 years because they can get good jobs maintaining the same Russian ships they served on before they retired. The Russian navy is good for the economy
The Russians want Crimea and Sevastopol for its warm water port.
Probably the most important question is "do the Russians feel that Crimea is part of the motherland".
Which can be distilled further to "Can Vladimir Putin convince the Russian people that Crimea is Motherland".
Because for Russians Motherland is the personification of Russia.
The only positive note is the amount of restraint Putin has demonstrated in Syria. But Crimea is not Syria..
Russian sailors have been retiring in Crimea for 200 years because they can get good jobs maintaining the same Russian ships they served on before they retired. The Russian navy is good for the economy
intothatgoodnight
. . .
Tartus, Syria is also a warm-water port, replete with Russian naval activity.
Tartus - Wikipedia
Further info:
Russian naval facility in Tartus - Wikipedia
intothegoodnight
Ping Jockey
Inactive
You are quite right RB, my apologies to you. I shan’t let pomposity by some rattle my cage further. Thanks!
Tartus, Syria is also a warm-water port, replete with Russian naval activity.
"Tartus hosts a Soviet-era naval supply and maintenance base, under a 1971 agreement with Syria, which is still staffed by Russian naval personnel. Tartus is the last Russian military base outside the former Soviet Union, and its only Mediterranean fueling spot, sparing Russia's warships the trip back to their Black Sea bases through straits in Turkey, a NATO member."Tartus - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Further info:
Russian naval facility in Tartus - Wikipedia
intothegoodnight
All the Russians ever missed in making Tartus a real "going enterprise" was a reliable land route for a rail road or trucks to that port. Kaliningrad has that, but only in peace time and the Baltic is really hemmed in, even when compared to the Black Sea (except for the Bosporus and access further out).
TheChrome
Contributing Member
The Russian government, has and is functioning in an irrational state for some time. The only option they have currently, is nuclear. They cannot stand toe to toe with NATO or the US in conventional capability. NATO and their allies fly over 500 stealth fighter jets, which eclipses the puny <50 Stealth Fighters China and Russia field combined. There is no parity between Russia and China, compared to NATO and it's allies. That is what is funny. They stand no chance if they want to wage war, unless they just wish to destroy the planet and launch all their nuclear missiles.
Ping Jockey
Inactive
Heh... or the Brits are really that stupid for believing a doddering old fool who thinks he has a handle on world events. He can’t string 6 words together and make a coherent sentence.
If by irrational you mean, they are out manned and out gunned by forces in the west and should simply roll over and let the Democrats take over Russia because they do not stand a chance . . . but they just won't surrender.
And by rational you mean, backing a weaker opponent into the corner with no other alternative than nukes, when it is well know that opponent believes . . . believes and prepares to survive a nuclear confrontation.
It is we in the west who have been trained, from those glorious days in the sixties hiding under our desk, that in the event of nuclear war, the planet will be destroyed.
If you think that is funny, go ahead and laugh
Hognutz
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Tell Adolf about it....
Hognutz
Has No Life - Lives on TB
“We have but to Kick in the door and the whole rotten structure comes down”
Nah. California and New York will hold an election and vote to annexed by Russia - won't be a takeover.
Would be a reunion.
TheChrome
Contributing Member
Realistically, all war is ridiculous. I oppose war, and am politically neutral. Generally, what I post is the reality of the planet. I am guided by the bible, which shows the Untied States and Britain are the predominant world power before God steps in. That means China and Russia will not overtake Britain or the US in power or status. You can laugh all you want, but the US and UK still reign king, and have not been surpassed.
Better look at the number of Blue vs Red counties and re-evaluate how you think that would play out....
It is noteworthy that Russia has not started any of these wars.
The British and Americans launched 200 cruise missiles into Libya
Obama supported ISIS to foment the revolution in Syria.
And the CIA instigated a civil war in Ukraine
and in all there cases, the actors screwed up historically such that those areas are still in chaos.
And God is not the author of Chaos.
And you miss quoted me . . . I was not laughing. You stated you thought it was funny
Ping Jockey
Inactive
I think the Russians would let the Chinese have it just so they’d not be hampered with having to deal with all the fruits and nuts.
The Chinese would just cut em up and make stir-fry.
The Chinese would just cut em up and make stir-fry.
I know, I know . . . I grew up in a red county in California.
They own the voting machines.
Ping Jockey
Inactive
I shan’t, I shan’, I shan’t....
TheChrome
Contributing Member
Advance. Interesting word. In this context, it implies Russia advanced on and invaded Crimea.
I do not dispute that subterfuge was involved, but Putin used Obama's playbook and organized the community and then had annexation put up to a vote.
You can't say it was an invasion.
It was the exact same thing the CIA pulled in Ukraine.
About all you can say is "Sneaky F#cking Russians" beat us at our own game.
Then I think you must know the combatants.
scripture father against son mother against daughter - Google Search
Actually, before god steps in, the Beast with 7 heads and 10 horns rule. So, you believe that the US and Britain are part of that group.
Melodi
Disaster Cat
Requesting we move the End Times Escatology discussions to either Religion of the Unexplained room before I am tempted to start quoting Nostradamus on "The Brothers of the North whose symbol is an Eagle," really don't think we want to go there on an information thread.
I realize there is a lull in the information, but I suspect that if NATO goes ahead with their war games in the Black Sea next week this or a similar thread will get red hot pretty quickly.
I realize there is a lull in the information, but I suspect that if NATO goes ahead with their war games in the Black Sea next week this or a similar thread will get red hot pretty quickly.
intothatgoodnight
. . .
Strongly disagree with your comments regarding NATO's "strengths" and Russia's "weaknesses."
intothegoodnight
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night driver
ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
MUCH more polite than I would have said it.
TheChrome
Contributing Member
Let's not forget why the Soviet Union fell. They were broke. They are still broke. Texas has a larger economy than they do!
Old Greek
Veteran Member
Yep - look at a current picture of Hiroshima. It still looks like a nuke wasteland and is unlivable!! ( sarc )
jward
passin' thru
EndGameWW3
@EndGameWW3
Update: (http://AVIA.PRO) During NATO exercises in the Black Sea, a massive breakthrough of warships is expected into Russian territorial waters.
Russia believes the British Ship was a test of its defenses around Crimea.
Basically NATO/ US wanted to see how Russia would react to a Western Ship of Crimean waters.
1:59 AM · Jun 25, 2021·Twitter for iPhone
danielboon
TB Fanatic
If they go through with this there will be war
EndGameWW3
@EndGameWW3
Update: (http://AVIA.PRO) During NATO exercises in the Black Sea, a massive breakthrough of warships is expected into Russian territorial waters.
Russia believes the British Ship was a test of its defenses around Crimea.
Basically NATO/ US wanted to see how Russia would react to a Western Ship of Crimean waters.
1:59 AM · Jun 25, 2021·Twitter for iPhone
Jubilee on Earth
Veteran Member
This may be true, but they’ve got a sweet new sugar daddy that’s a country of 1.5 billion people and $24 trillion USD GDP.
So they’re good...!
Samuel Adams
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Mikhail Gorbachev, 1987.......regarding the outward appearance of Soviet current events as represented by the world stage propagandists, most notably those of the US.....then and now;
“Gentlemen, comrades, do not be concerned about all you hear about Glasnost and Perestroika and democracy in the coming years. They are primarily for outward consumption. There will be no significant internal changes in the Soviet Union, other than for cosmetic purposes. Our purpose is to disarm the Americans and let them fall asleep. ”
jward
passin' thru
That was in response to two of your posts up thread citing material I’d posted. Sorry if I confused you by not quoting them specifically.
Anyway, OF COURSE you have to look at the past in order to understand the present, and the possible futures that may emanate from that unique combination. I did not mean to suggest it unimportant, but to the contrary, point out that it’s so widely accepted as important here there are literally hundreds, perhaps hundreds of thousands of posts/discussions addressing these factors, for all areas of geopolitical interest.
Thus, I don’t find it necessary to offer the caveat that it’s considered Russian occupied Ukrainian waters by many, or make note of the myriad historical, legal practical etc implications that flow from that current status, nor the various winding roads that led there- the readers are well aware.
Likewise, they’re well able to read the various info I post, understand it in context of the originators POV and purposes, and distill it’s import, if any, from there. I don’t need to tell them the journalism stinks, the most value neutral submissions are horridly biased, and the worst are malicious lies-again, they are well aware.
Certainly crediting the readers here for having this knowledge base in no way implies that you do not possess it; any offense taken lies with your interpretation, not my words, nor intention.
As to the comments re: the biblical beliefs, the owner/mods policy seems to be that it’s heavily discouraged, and extensive quoting of verse or discussions will be redirected to the religion forum. The line seems a bit fluid, but they’ll us know when we’ve crossed it
O- and I have never found speaking the language a help in understanding a people, and my original comments were not derogatory- not my style.
Hope this clarifies.
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jward
passin' thru
Try post 110- afaik neither party has taken issue with anything said there in, so....
Most definitely intentionally intruded. Thwart? To send a message. I wish it were propaganda/domestically directed, but 'chit like this starts wars' so it sure doesn't feel like a show to me :: shrug :: It's almost like they're trying to do ww1 over, down to the guns of august and
jward
passin' thru
France, Germany drop plans for Russia summit after EU outcry
Marine Strauss, Robin Emmott and Sabine Siebold
4-5 minutes
European Union leaders failed to agree on a proposal by France and Germany to hold a summit soon with Russian President Vladimir Putin after Poland and Baltic countries said it would send the wrong message as East-West ties deteriorate.
After U.S. President Joe Biden met Russian President Vladimir Putin in Geneva on June 16, French President Emmanuel Macron said the first EU summit with Putin since January 2014 would be “a dialogue to defend our interests”. He insisted the EU could not only be reactive in its diplomacy with Russia.
But after late night talks at their meeting in Brussels, the 27 EU leaders failed to reach an agreement, German Chancellor Angela Merkel said early on Friday.
“It was a very comprehensive discussion, and not an easy one,” she told reporters. “There was no agreement today on an immediate leaders’ meeting,” she said.
EU summits with Russia ended after Moscow annexed Ukraine’s Crimea peninsula in March 2014 and the West imposed sanctions.
While Austria’s Chancellor Sebastian Kurz said he supported the Franco-German proposal, many other leaders were opposed.
“It was a common position of many leaders” not to change the stance on Russia, Lithuanian President Gitanas Nauseda said after the meeting broke up. He earlier said the idea was like “trying to engage the bear to keep a pot of honey safe”.
Latvia’s Prime Minister Krisjanis Karins said the EU risked rewarding Russia with a summit even though diplomacy has failed to end the conflict in eastern Ukraine with Russian-backed separatists.
Instead, EU leaders fell back to a familiar position of warning of more sanctions on Moscow if it continued what the EU says is a Russian policy of disinformation, cyber and covert attacks and interference to try to divide the bloc.
Russia denies any wrongdoing.
In a summit statement, leaders called on the European Commission and the EU’s top diplomat Josep Borrell “to present options for additional restrictive measures, including economic sanctions” against Russia.
The EU has sanctions on the Russian energy, financial and arms sectors and individual sanctions on Russians accused of human rights abuses and for using banned chemical weapons.
Diplomats say further sanctions could target Russian money laundering or powerful oligarchs suspected of serious corruption abroad, as non-EU member Britain did for the first time in April.
SEARCH FOR DIALOGUE
Macron had tried in September 2019 to seek less frosty ties with Putin, without success, and Germany’s outgoing Chancellor Angela Merkel met Putin in Moscow in January 2020. Putin held a phone call with European Council President Charles Michel, who chairs EU summits, on June 7 this year.
France and Germany want to be able to work with Russia on combatting climate change and to find ways to stabilize relations. Merkel said even without a summit: “Formats will be explored ... under which dialogues can be started.”
Many EU countries are concerned that the Kremlin does not take the bloc seriously, after Borrell was publicly humiliated in February by the Kremlin. Russia expelled EU diplomats during Borrell’s visit to Moscow without warning.
Lithuania’s Nauseda said: “We should be extremely cautious, this is not like the relationship of Russia with the United States”.
While France is a nuclear power, the EU relies on NATO for its territorial defence and takes decisions among 27 states, making it easier for the Kremlin to exploit divisions.
The Kremlin earlier welcomed the idea of a summit, saying both Brussels and Moscow needed dialogue, although Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said he wanted more details.
On opposing sides in standoffs in Ukraine and Belarus, and at odds over human rights, the EU and Russia accuse each other of threatening security and stability from the Baltics to the Black Sea.
The EU on Thursday imposed economic sanctions on Belarus, an ally of Russia that the Kremlin sees as a buffer state between Russia and NATO.
Posted for fair use
www.theglobeandmail.com
Marine Strauss, Robin Emmott and Sabine Siebold
4-5 minutes
European Union leaders failed to agree on a proposal by France and Germany to hold a summit soon with Russian President Vladimir Putin after Poland and Baltic countries said it would send the wrong message as East-West ties deteriorate.
After U.S. President Joe Biden met Russian President Vladimir Putin in Geneva on June 16, French President Emmanuel Macron said the first EU summit with Putin since January 2014 would be “a dialogue to defend our interests”. He insisted the EU could not only be reactive in its diplomacy with Russia.
But after late night talks at their meeting in Brussels, the 27 EU leaders failed to reach an agreement, German Chancellor Angela Merkel said early on Friday.
“It was a very comprehensive discussion, and not an easy one,” she told reporters. “There was no agreement today on an immediate leaders’ meeting,” she said.
EU summits with Russia ended after Moscow annexed Ukraine’s Crimea peninsula in March 2014 and the West imposed sanctions.
While Austria’s Chancellor Sebastian Kurz said he supported the Franco-German proposal, many other leaders were opposed.
“It was a common position of many leaders” not to change the stance on Russia, Lithuanian President Gitanas Nauseda said after the meeting broke up. He earlier said the idea was like “trying to engage the bear to keep a pot of honey safe”.
Latvia’s Prime Minister Krisjanis Karins said the EU risked rewarding Russia with a summit even though diplomacy has failed to end the conflict in eastern Ukraine with Russian-backed separatists.
Instead, EU leaders fell back to a familiar position of warning of more sanctions on Moscow if it continued what the EU says is a Russian policy of disinformation, cyber and covert attacks and interference to try to divide the bloc.
Russia denies any wrongdoing.
In a summit statement, leaders called on the European Commission and the EU’s top diplomat Josep Borrell “to present options for additional restrictive measures, including economic sanctions” against Russia.
The EU has sanctions on the Russian energy, financial and arms sectors and individual sanctions on Russians accused of human rights abuses and for using banned chemical weapons.
Diplomats say further sanctions could target Russian money laundering or powerful oligarchs suspected of serious corruption abroad, as non-EU member Britain did for the first time in April.
SEARCH FOR DIALOGUE
Macron had tried in September 2019 to seek less frosty ties with Putin, without success, and Germany’s outgoing Chancellor Angela Merkel met Putin in Moscow in January 2020. Putin held a phone call with European Council President Charles Michel, who chairs EU summits, on June 7 this year.
France and Germany want to be able to work with Russia on combatting climate change and to find ways to stabilize relations. Merkel said even without a summit: “Formats will be explored ... under which dialogues can be started.”
Many EU countries are concerned that the Kremlin does not take the bloc seriously, after Borrell was publicly humiliated in February by the Kremlin. Russia expelled EU diplomats during Borrell’s visit to Moscow without warning.
Lithuania’s Nauseda said: “We should be extremely cautious, this is not like the relationship of Russia with the United States”.
While France is a nuclear power, the EU relies on NATO for its territorial defence and takes decisions among 27 states, making it easier for the Kremlin to exploit divisions.
The Kremlin earlier welcomed the idea of a summit, saying both Brussels and Moscow needed dialogue, although Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said he wanted more details.
On opposing sides in standoffs in Ukraine and Belarus, and at odds over human rights, the EU and Russia accuse each other of threatening security and stability from the Baltics to the Black Sea.
The EU on Thursday imposed economic sanctions on Belarus, an ally of Russia that the Kremlin sees as a buffer state between Russia and NATO.
Posted for fair use
France, Germany drop plans for Russia summit after EU outcry
France, Germany abandon plans to hold a summit with Russian President Vladimir Putin
www.theglobeandmail.com
Old Gringo
Senior Member
That was in response to two of your posts up thread citing material I’d posted. Sorry if I confused you by not quoting them specifically.
Anyway, OF COURSE you have to look at the past in order to understand the present, and the possible futures that may emanate from that unique combination. I did not mean to suggest it unimportant, but to the contrary, point out that it’s so widely accepted as important here there are literally hundreds, perhaps hundreds of thousands of posts/discussions addressing these factors, for all areas of geopolitical interest.
Thus, I don’t find it necessary to offer the caveat that it’s considered Russian occupied Ukrainian waters by many, or make note of the myriad historical, legal practical etc implications that flow from that current status, nor the various winding roads that led there- the readers are well aware.
Likewise, they’re well able to read the various info I post, understand it in context of the originators POV and purposes, and distill it’s import, if any, from there. I don’t need to tell them the journalism stinks, the most value neutral submissions are horridly biased, and the worst are malicious lies-again, they are well aware.
Certainly crediting the readers here for having this knowledge base in no way implies that you do not possess it; any offense taken lies with your interpretation, not my words, nor intention.
As to the comments re: the biblical beliefs, the owner/mods policy seems to be that it’s heavily discouraged, and extensive quoting of verse or discussions will be redirected to the religion forum. The line seems a bit fluid, but they’ll us know when we’ve crossed it
O- and I have never found speaking the language a help in understanding a people, and my original comments were not derogatory- not my style.
Hope this clarifies.
What ?
I would not be against the chances of this whole deal being scripted.
IIRC, there are hotlines between top commands on both sides.
Good training.
IIRC, there are hotlines between top commands on both sides.
Good training.
Well, you know, everyone was pretty surprised when a couple of corvettes in the Caspian
launched cruise missiles 1500 miles into Syria.
precisely . . .That was in response to two of your posts up thread citing material I’d posted. Sorry if I confused you by not quoting them specifically.
Anyway, OF COURSE you have to look at the past in order to understand the present, and the possible futures that may emanate from that unique combination. I did not mean to suggest it unimportant, but to the contrary, point out that it’s so widely accepted as important here there are literally hundreds, perhaps hundreds of thousands of posts/discussions addressing these factors, for all areas of geopolitical interest.
Thus, I don’t find it necessary to offer the caveat that it’s considered Russian occupied Ukrainian waters by many, or make note of the myriad historical, legal practical etc implications that flow from that current status, nor the various winding roads that led there- the readers are well aware.
Likewise, they’re well able to read the various info I post, understand it in context of the originators POV and purposes, and distill it’s import, if any, from there. I don’t need to tell them the journalism stinks, the most value neutral submissions are horridly biased, and the worst are malicious lies-again, they are well aware.
Certainly crediting the readers here for having this knowledge base in no way implies that you do not possess it; any offense taken lies with your interpretation, not my words, nor intention.
As to the comments re: the biblical beliefs, the owner/mods policy seems to be that it’s heavily discouraged, and extensive quoting of verse or discussions will be redirected to the religion forum. The line seems a bit fluid, but they’ll us know when we’ve crossed it
O- and I have never found speaking the language a help in understanding a people, and my original comments were not derogatory- not my style.
Hope this clarifies.