ALERT Regional middleast war thread Israel and Iran at war

Ragnar

Senior Member
Iran sent its drone with very long warning time, because it was just testing which/how US/UK would react. US/UK reacted by using multimillion dollar defense missiles/bombs at pennies-on-the-dollar drones. Now Iran and Russia know how US/UK are defending the Jews.
if all my stuff got shot down that is what i would say too... makes more sense to use them to overwhelm air defense system but there other stuff has to work as well. That logic makes more sense if one of the proxies launched the attack.. it is not like this is the first time drones have been launched at Israel... I cant believe what they used to defend themselves came as any surprise to anyone with the exception that it worked so effectively.

For Iran to attack as themselves you think they would want to have some success...
 

Pinecone

Has No Life - Lives on TB
The costs of Israel's defense reminds me of how we defeated the Soviet Union. We outspent them. Remember the first Star Wars programs? Only this time, Israel and the US/Allies are expending ammo and dollars now with the questionable ability to restock that expensive ammo, either cost wise or manufacturing wise. We import too many of the parts. We are in a losing war if China decides to chime in.
 

northern watch

TB Fanatic

Israel Says Readying 'Imminent' Attack On Iran As Airlines Cancel Flights To Region​

BY TYLER DURDEN
ZERO HEDGE
MONDAY, APR 15, 2024 - 01:29 PM

Summary:​

  • Middle East braces for Israeli 'retaliation' attack on Iran after Israel War Cabinet meets
  • Israeli Air Force says it has completed 'preparation' and that an attack is 'imminent'
  • US officials tell WSJ they believe Israel will launch an anti-Iran operation today
  • IDF Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Herzi Halevi: Iranian missile and drone attack on Israel “will be met with a response.”
  • Netanyahu orders military: draw up a list of targets
  • Several major airlines canceling flights to Tel Aviv and whole region.
  • State Dept spox: “commitment to Israel’s security is sacrosanct”.
  • G7 working on measures against Iran as China, Russia signal weekend attack won't hurt relations with Tehran
  • European allies urge Israel against military response
  • Tehran warns that it's ready to hit back harder.
  • IRGC says it is willing to hit back from Iran for any new Israeli escalation, including then it attacks in Syria.
  • Iran FM: we warned Washington that response in face of an Israeli attack will be "faster, stronger, and broader" (via AJ).
  • US reiterates that it "does not seek conflict with Iran."
* * *

Update(1329ET): It appears things are moving fast, via Israel's Channel 12 broadcaster, following the earlier conclusion of Israel's War Cabinet meeting:
THE ISRAELI AIR FORCE HAS COMPLETED ITS PREPARATION FOR AN IMMINENT ATTACK AGAINST IRAN
The Times of Israel top headline has switched to: War cabinet decides to hit Iran back hard, hopes it won’t spark regional war

A host of airlines have canceled flights to the region, including the following:


Germany’s Lufthansa has suspended its regular flights to and from Tel Aviv, Erbil, and Amman, up to and including Monday. Flights to Beirut and Tehran will remain suspended until at least Thursday.
KLM cancelled all flights to and from Tel Aviv until Tuesday, a spokesperson for the Dutch arm of Air France says.
Britain’s easyJet on Sunday paused operations to and from Tel Aviv. The carrier said in an emailed statement to Reuters that it will temporarily pause operations to and from Tel Aviv until April 21.
Wizz Air says it had cancelled most of its flights to and from Tel Aviv, Saturday through Monday.
Finnair has suspended operations in Iranian airspace until further notice, which may cause longer flight times on flights from Doha. A spokesperson said the Finnish carrier will reroute over Egypt, resulting in delays of a “few minutes.”
IRGC threatens "new equation":

* * *
Update(1225ET): Israel is looking to "send a message" against Iran, but short of causing outright war and mass casualties, a top level official has told The Washington Post. During Monday's Israel War Cabinet meeting, Prime Minister Netanyahu is reported to have requested defense leaders to draw up a list of targets.
According to Washington Post's reporting:
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has asked the Israel Defense Forces to provide target options, according to an official familiar with high-level discussions, who said Israel is looking at options that would “send a message” but not cause casualties.
Those options include a potential strike on a facility in Tehran or a cyberattack, according to the official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of the talks.
“Everybody agrees that Israel must respond,” the official said. “How to respond, when to respond, is the question.”
Israeli officials are now signaling to their US counterparts that they would like the White House's backing and coordination for retaliation, however, so far President Biden has urged restraint. This weekend the president clearly said the US will not back an Israeli military attack on Iran, on fears it would spark a bigger war.
Biden has issued what appears an ambiguous statement, and Israel's military says it is preparing:
  • BIDEN: US COMMITTED TO ISRAEL'S SECURITY AND FOR CEASE-FIRE
* * *
Update(1145ET): Israel's war cabinet has issued a statement, reported in the country's Channel 12 broadcaster, according to breaking reports:
Israel wants to embark on action against Iran coordinated with US, channel 12 says — Reuters
Channel 12 has cited top Israeli ministers to say that the military's objective will be to "hurt Iran without causing all-out war," according to news wires.

But the Biden administration has already said it will not back a retaliatory attack on Iran, amid fears of the situation spiraling into all-out regional war.

As for Tehran, it is warning that in the face of any Israeli assault it will hit back harder. According to BBC Iran correspondent Kasra Naji:

Iran's IRGC commander: in new equation every time Israel attacks our interests, assets, personalities or citizens, we will hit back from our soil. Israel's Def Minister: we won't accept an equation in which Iran responds with a direct attack every time we strike targets in Syria.
Recall that before the Saturday night Iranian attack, Israel's leadership vowed that a major response would happen if the Islamic Republic directly attacks Israel from its soil. Indeed that's precisely what Iran did - it launched hundreds of drones and ballistic missiles directly from its territory.

Meanwhile in Iran:
Iran has lifted suspensions on domestic and international flights from its capital, Tehran, the state-run IRNA news agency reported, possibly signaling a return to stabilization for now.
It comes as Israel weighs its response to the strikes and world leaders call for restraint.
Global airlines faced ongoing disruptions to flights after Iran’s missile and drone attacks on Israel narrowed options for planes navigating between Europe and Asia.
* * *
Update(1030ET): The Wall Street Journal issued a mid-morning report citing US officials who predict that Israel will quickly launch a military response on Iran, and that it's expected to come as early as today...
U.S. and Western officials anticipate that Israel will quickly respond to Iran’s attacks, as soon as Monday, officials said. But the officials said they hoped both countries could come away with a sense of victory, giving them an off ramp that would limit escalatory moves.
Israel's war cabinet convened again Monday (but there are contradictory reports), however it has as yet issued no clear decision (nothing communicated to the public at least) - and the question of whether the Netanyahu government has decided to pursue retribution on a military level remains open. It will likely be a 'surprise' attack - and the public will hear about it only when missiles are airborne.

The WSJ report is also full of caveats while presenting the alarming assessment of US officials:

Israel might also choose to defer action until a later point. One option is “‘we will respond, but not immediately.’ Iran will give Israel reason to respond and retaliate in future,” said Ehud Yaari, a fellow with the Washington Institute for Near East Policy. “I think it’s very clear at this point that Israel would have to do something about Iran at some point, but not now,” he added.

Shortly on the heels of the WSJ quote being issued, Axios issued its own bombshell which points the way to an Israeli response to Tehran being imminent:
Israeli Minister of Defense Yoav Gallant told Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin Sunday that Israel has no choice but to respond to the unprecedented missile and drone attack launched by Iran over the weekend, a U.S. official and another source briefed on the call told Axios.

Oil is surging on the twin Axios/WSJ headlines...


Leading European countries, including the UK, France and Germany are pleading for Israel to hold off on fears that the whole region could slide into a major war. The Biden administration has thus far been clear that it does not support Israel retaliation attacks at this point. Biden told PM Netanyahu to "take the win" after Iranian drones and missiles by and large failed to inflict significant damage or casualties.

* * *
As Israel's war cabinet again meets Monday to debate how to respond to Iran's first-ever direct attack on Israel, intense international reaction continues, with leading European countries joining the Biden White House in urging restraint. The United Kingdom, France and Germany have condemned the weekend Iranian attack which saw hundreds of drones and ballistic missiles target Israel, but they are warning against an Israeli counterattack, saying that this would assure that an all out war-is sparked. British Foreign Secretary David Cameron said that while Israel's mulling a military response is understandable and justified, the country must "think with its head as well as its heart, to be smart as well as tough."
Cameron told BBC the UK's position is that Israel will be better to not retaliate because the Saturday night attack was a "double defeat" for Iran in that its assault failed to result in major damage despite over 350 projectiles launched, and that at the same time Tehran is coming under world condemnation and isolation. Cameron said the aggression has revealed "to the world that [Iran is] the malign influence in the region prepared to do this."

Via Al Jazeera

This is consistent with Biden's words to Prime Minister Netanyahu in the Saturday overnight hours when he told the Israeli leader to "take the win" and don't retaliate. The US is hoping Israeli decisions-makers "slow things down" at this point to avoid spiraling into major war. Washington has also affirmed it will not back any Israeli military action against Iran.

French President Emmanuel Macron also acknowledged to a French outlet Monday that the situation is "very unstable" and that Israel must show restraint. "We will do everything to avoid a conflagration," he said to BFMTV news channel.
But Iran has accused Britain, France, and Germany of "double standards" after they all condemned the Iranian attack. On Sunday Iran’s foreign ministry summoned their ambassadors over the "irresponsible stance", according to the semi-official Iranian Labour News Agency.

Iran has further once again lashed out at the UN Security Council, pointing out that it failed to condemn the April 1st Israeli aggression against its consulate in Damascus which killed two top generals and several others. "The Security Council... failed in its duty to maintain international peace and security," Ambassador Amir Saeid Iravani said during Sunday's session.

He said his country "had no choice" but to react in a "necessary and proportionate" and proportionate way while still asserting the Islamic Republic does not "seek escalation or war." However, he underscored that "If the US initiates military operations against Iran, its citizens, or its security and interests, Iran will use its inherent right to respond proportionately."

Russia too has called for restraint, but defended Iranian actions as done in self-defense. "We have repeatedly warned that the numerous unresolved crises in the Middle East, primarily in the Palestinian-Israeli conflict zone, which are often fueled by irresponsible provocative actions, will lead to an increase in tension," its foreign ministry said.

Unlike the West, Russia firmly condemned the prior Israeli attack on Iran's sovereign embassy:
Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov on Saturday held phone talks with Iranian counterpart Hossein Amir-Abdollahian. The Russian Foreign Ministry said Lavrov reiterated "decisive condemnation" of an Israeli strike in Syria this month that killed Iranian generals.
Russia has previously condemned Israel's conduct in its six-month war in Gaza.
Regional media noted of Moscow's stance: "Russia noted Tehran’s claim that the attack was made within the right to self-defense after the strike in Damascus, which Moscow condemned."

Israel's war cabinet meets, Anadolu via Getty Images

Interestingly, deputy chairman of Russia’s Security Council Dmitry Medvedev said on Telegram that "America does not want a big war in the Middle East" as "The killings in Gaza worsen Biden’s prospects in the elections, and war between Israel and Iran would introduce additional uncertainty."

The below is some additional commentary via Bill Blain and his Morning Porridge blog...

* * *

But, of course, the big issue is the Middle East.
Markets don’t like uncertainty – even though uncertain markets often offer the best opportunities. The current wisdom is that it’s all utterly dependent on how Israel responds – will they go big with an all-out strike on Iran bases and its nuclear capability, or will they take the apparent win Iran granted them over the weekend?
There has been something of the sense of a well-choregraphed dance between Israel and Iran circling each other over recent weeks and months – very aware it’s not what is done, but how actions are perceived. Everyone expected the well-flagged Iran attack over the weekend. That’s why Oil prices barely wobbled. After a few words of predictable fury, this morning there are signs an Israeli stand down might be on the cards – which would favor markets. Doesn’t mean it’s over – revenge is oft a dish best tasted cold and considered.
The weekend strikes gave Israel a tactical win. After Israel took out key Iranian generals in a pinpoint surgical missile strike on Iran’s embassy in Damascus, over 300 Iranian missiles, drones and rockets rained down, mostly in broken bits over deserts outside Israeli borders, swotted out the skies by Western and Israeli defence tech. Iron Dome and other systems were shown to work effectively.

But, strategically it might be a win for the Iran/China/Russia Axis. The strike’s apparent abject failure may have been exactly what the Iranian war planners expected. They would be very aware of how Russian drone and missile strikes have fared in Ukraine. The attack would have provided valuable information by forcing Israel to reveal just how effective their top of the range tech defences are at a time when global opinion meant there was a significantly reduced likelihood of a devasting Israeli counterstrike.
The Russians will be factoring countermeasures garnered from the strike into their current glide missile assaults, while the Chinese will already be pouring over the data to determine the practicalities of taking out similarly protected US carrier task forces in the South China Seas at some future date.
* * *
Meanwhile...

 

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
Looking for more confirmation on this.

View attachment 470476

Israel_Missiles_web-1.jpg


That pretty much covers all of the important parts of the Russian Federation including their main ICBM fields, never mind the Ukrainian theater....
 

Wyominglarry

Veteran Member
Israelis are willing to wait, until tensions die down and then hit the ragheads in Iran with something really big. What is really happening per my family in Israel is the army is gearing up and refitting to take the garbage out in Rafah. Battle plans and rearming is going on daily. No one, but the top people in government knows when the Rafah battle will start. I am told equipment and people are getting ready to go back into Gaza. I personally would rather see Israel completely destroy Hamas and their supporters, before they send canned sunshine to Iran.
 

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
Israelis are willing to wait, until tensions die down and then hit the ragheads in Iran with something really big. What is really happening per my family in Israel is the army is gearing up and refitting to take the garbage out in Rafah. Battle plans and rearming is going on daily. No one, but the top people in government knows when the Rafah battle will start. I am told equipment and people are getting ready to go back into Gaza. I personally would rather see Israel completely destroy Hamas and their supporters, before they send canned sunshine to Iran.

Either something really "big" or something "really small", like in the 124 to 147 grain range, delivered to the proper person(s).
 

toxic avenger

Senior Member
if all my stuff got shot down that is what i would say too... makes more sense to use them to overwhelm air defense system but there other stuff has to work as well. That logic makes more sense if one of the proxies launched the attack.. it is not like this is the first time drones have been launched at Israel... I cant believe what they used to defend themselves came as any surprise to anyone with the exception that it worked so effectively.

For Iran to attack as themselves you think they would want to have some success...
I’ve been thinking along the same lines. Iran attacked unilaterally. If they had coordinated with their proxies six months ago and kicked off the October 7th attack, the Houthi ship attacks, the other night’s missile attack, and had the relatively more intact Palestinian and hezbolla assets from 6 months ago lobbing everything over the border and pulled the trigger at once, the ground situation in Israel would have been disastrous.

Which is why my “skeptical” light clicked on. The goat humpers are not that dumb. All parties involved need each other intact to sustain their own grift operations.
 

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
I’ve been thinking along the same lines. Iran attacked unilaterally. If they had coordinated with their proxies six months ago and kicked off the October 7th attack, the Houthi ship attacks, the other night’s missile attack, and had the relatively more intact Palestinian and hezbolla assets from 6 months ago lobbing everything over the border and pulled the trigger at once, the ground situation in Israel would have been disastrous.

Which is why my “skeptical” light clicked on. The goat humpers are not that dumb. All parties involved need each other intact to sustain their own grift operations.

If that had been the "October War" scenario, the Weather Channel would be including dosimeter counts every hour.....
 

northern watch

TB Fanatic
Iran sent its drone with very long warning time, because it was just testing which/how US/UK would react. US/UK reacted by using multimillion dollar defense missiles/bombs at pennies-on-the-dollar drones. Now Iran and Russia know how US/UK are defending the Jews.
The game of Chess was invented in that part of the world. First played in India, then Persia (Iran)
 

Warm Wisconsin

Easy as 3.141592653589..
I was talking to an extended family member that was special forces for 20 years. Retired last year.

He doesn’t believe that 50% of the cruise and ballistic rockets were failed on launch or in route.

He believes the US military used a new Skunk Works PFM (pure f’n’ magic) project weapon in theater. He believes it’s a laser like weapon that destroys electronics on contact, unlike typical laser that destroy by heat.

He thinks they wanted to scare the crap out of Russia, China and Iran with the failure of this attack on Israel.

He also believes that this weapon will most likely be used in the offensive attack to take out anti-aircraft weapons. He doesn’t think Israel’s response has to be big. It just has to prove to their enemies that they stand no chance on offense or defense in a real war.

Time will tell.
 

Wyominglarry

Veteran Member
I was talking to an extended family member that was special forces for 20 years. Retired last year.

He doesn’t believe that 50% of the cruise and ballistic rockets were failed on launch or in route.

He believes the US military used a new Skunk Works PFM (pure f’n’ magic) project weapon in theater. He believes it’s a laser like weapon that destroys electronics on contact, unlike typical laser that destroy by heat.

He thinks they wanted to scare the crap out of Russia, China and Iran with the failure of this attack on Israel.

He also believes that this weapon will most likely be used in the offensive attack to take out anti-aircraft weapons. He doesn’t think Israel’s response has to be big. It just has to prove to their enemies that they stand no chance on offense or defense in a real war.

Time will tell.
How would this weapon be able to destroy missiles on the launchpad? Is it airborne or a satellite based weapon?
 

vector7

Dot Collector

Ragnar

Senior Member
I’ve been thinking along the same lines. Iran attacked unilaterally. If they had coordinated with their proxies six months ago and kicked off the October 7th attack, the Houthi ship attacks, the other night’s missile attack, and had the relatively more intact Palestinian and hezbolla assets from 6 months ago lobbing everything over the border and pulled the trigger at once, the ground situation in Israel would have been disastrous.

Which is why my “skeptical” light clicked on. The goat humpers are not that dumb. All parties involved need each other intact to sustain their own grift operations.
+ doesn’t Iran sell weapons… it is not good advertisement to do so poorly. that would probably affect sales
 

jward

passin' thru
Charles Lister
@Charles_Lister

Signals from #Israel appear to indicate a military response to #Iran has been decided & maybe imminent.

If it’s direct & overt action, that’d be a bold move, sharply against the urging of everyone that backed #Israel’s defense on Sunday — #Biden, US military, UK, #Jordan & Gulf.
 

jward

passin' thru
The Spectator Index
@spectatorindex

BREAKING: Official from Iranian parliamentary national security commission says his country is ready to use a 'weapon we have never used before' if Israel launches retaliatory attack

3:59 PM · Apr 15, 2024
841K
Views
 

jward

passin' thru
Iran International English
@IranIntl_En

#BREAKING When asked if he is concerned Israel would attack Iran's nuclear facilities, IAEA Director General told reporters, "We're always concerned about that possibility."
"Iran's gov't informed IAEA inspectors yesterday that the nuclear facilities we're inspecting everyday will remain closed on security considerations and would be reopened today for continued inspections. I decided to let the inspectors not to return until tomorrow," he added.
 

jward

passin' thru
:hmm:

OSINTdefender
@sentdefender

I think it is now Safe to say that Iran likely has some kind of Nuclear/Dirty Bomb or has the Ability to Manufacture one within Days, which is something that I’m sure Officials in Washington and Tel Aviv are “Keeping a Close-Eye On” while Planning their Next Steps. If Israel does Plan to launch a Retaliatory Strike against Iran, they must be Prepared for Iran to think this could be an Extreme Threat against their Regime and thus utilize these Weapons.

Even if the United States doesn’t currently have a Plan to Participate in an Israeli Retaliatory Strike against Iran, the U.S. must be Prepared to Handle a Nuclear Threat by the Iranian Regime before it would ever be able to get off the Ground.
5:15 PM · Apr 15, 2024
197.9K
Views

John M. Larrier
@DefenseBulletin

I agree with your assumptions on capability, but so far I haven’t seen anything that would indicate they would follow through with a nuclear attack. I think that’s the point of the ambiguous language, they can always be like “we never said nuclear” and use the other unused system, hypersonic weapons.

5:19 PM · Apr 15, 2024
22.3K
Views

OSINTdefender
@sentdefender

I think the Iran we knew on Friday of last week, and the Iran we know today are two very different Entities; Iran is Unpredictable right now which is beyond Dangerous.

5:23 PM · Apr 15, 2024
18.1K
Views

John M. Larrier
@DefenseBulletin

Fair point. As many have said in the past few days, we don’t have much to use for source material to inform analysis for an Iran that is this assertive.
Maybe the DPRK? However, they are a whole different beast.
As funny as it may sound Iran is likely forming policy based of of events at this point. As are we.
Wild times.

5:27 PM · Apr 15, 2024
2,692
Views

The Spectator Index
@spectatorindex

BREAKING: Official from Iranian parliamentary national security commission says his country is ready to use a 'weapon we have never used before' if Israel launches retaliatory attack

3:59 PM · Apr 15, 2024
841K
Views
 

jward

passin' thru
..in 'unrelated' news..

The Spectator Index
@spectatorindex

BREAKING: Lockheed Martin wins $17 billion US missile defense contract

1:54 PM · Apr 15, 2024
797.3K
Views



Paul McLeary
@paulmcleary

NEW: There was a fire at the Army's ammunition plant in Scranton, Pa. today - a key hub for making 155mm rounds.
General Dynamics helps run the plant, and tells me the fire was small, and has been put out. Not a concern.

4:09 PM · Apr 15, 2024
41.4K
Views
 

jward

passin' thru
Apex
@Apex_WW

"US officials appeared resigned on Monday that the Israeli government would not heed Biden’s advice to 'take the win' of having shot down the overwhelming majority of incoming Iranian missiles and drones, and that there would be some sort of Israeli response." - Guardian

4:26 PM · Apr 15, 2024
101.5K
Views
 

Johnny Twoguns

Senior Member
if all my stuff got shot down that is what i would say too... makes more sense to use them to overwhelm air defense system but there other stuff has to work as well. That logic makes more sense if one of the proxies launched the attack.. it is not like this is the first time drones have been launched at Israel... I cant believe what they used to defend themselves came as any surprise to anyone with the exception that it worked so effectively.

For Iran to attack as themselves you think they would want to have some success...
Rafi Farber said that a drone hit a few hundred feet from his house.

I'll wait for later confirmation as to effectiveness. Not about to take the word at face value from the people who lied for 6 years about Russia/Trump collusion, or that it is the Russians who lost 400,000 dead in the last two years.
 
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jward

passin' thru
War Intel
@warintel4u
50m

#BREAKING The Washington Post, according to intelligence officials: Russia pledged to provide Iran fighters to strengthen its defenses against an Israeli or American attack — Al Jazeera
 

Johnny Twoguns

Senior Member
The costs of Israel's defense reminds me of how we defeated the Soviet Union. We outspent them. Remember the first Star Wars programs? Only this time, Israel and the US/Allies are expending ammo and dollars now with the questionable ability to restock that expensive ammo, either cost wise or manufacturing wise. We import too many of the parts. We are in a losing war if China decides to chime in.
35 trillion in debt, another trillion added every 100 days, and 175 trillion in unfunded liabilities. Once the majority of the world says, nah, your dollars are no longer any good here, the sham is over.

Cicero: "GOLD is the sinews of WAR"
 

Murt

Veteran Member
why would russia want to participate in an a counter attack with iran
I could see them providing intelligence or maybe some logistical help
but seems russia doesn't need another front using up material and other resources right now
 

jward

passin' thru
OSINTdefender
@sentdefender

The Royal Jordanian Air Force has announced an Increase in Readiness as well as Air Patrols across the Country in order to Defend the Kingdom’s Airspace from Actors with Hostile Intent.

6:55 PM · Apr 15, 2024
20.3K
Views


EndGameWW3
@EndGameWW3
The Jordanian Army: We will not allow any party to use the Kingdom’s airspace for any purpose.
 

Sweetwood

Senior Member
why would russia want to participate in an a counter attack with iran
I could see them providing intelligence or maybe some logistical help
but seems russia doesn't need another front using up material and other resources right now
This is exactly why. The US is providing material and other support to Ukraine and became actively involved in defending Israel from an Iranian attack. Its in Russia's best interest to provide support to its allies who are fighting against the US/Israel. Most likely with the intent to spread an already thin US military even further.
 
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