CORONA Main Coronavirus thread

Trivium Pursuit

Has No Life - Lives on TB
People who are, or have relatives who are at GREATER RISK of contracting coronavirus and then infecting their whole family before they are aware they carry the disease?
LET’s think about it so we recognize and take greater precautions if we or one of our family.
I’ll list all I can think of, PLEASE ADD any I miss to the list:
HIGHER RISK WORKERS & other People:

*Health care workers, patients, and medical support staff, especially hospital and traveling home health workers.
Dentists & dental staff, and their patients
Airline stewardesses and stewards
*Nursing Home workers and patients.
Teachers, school children,
*Taxi and Uber drivers, “ride share” commuters, bus drivers,
*beauticians, barbers, prostitutes,
*mailmen, bank tellers, cashiers, bartenders, waitresses
*Police, Prisoners,
* military, Ambulance medics,
*First responders, Funeral workers
*tattoo artists and those who patronize them
Masseuses, Sports and Personal “Trainers”
Those who patronize “Gyms” & Exercise facilities
Hotel workers, especially cleaning staff

the families of above workers....

*I have one daughter who wears three hats as a Hospital head nurse/ER Triage nurse/cardiac nurse
* I have another daughter whose husband works as mechanical/electrical maintenance in a large hospital and
*my eldest daughter who, thank God, switched careers from pharmacy tech to Paramedic then to Paralegal but now works for Amazon AT HOME, for them in some kind of loss prevention and mitigation investigating.

So like most people here, there is an avenue of accessibility for corona virus to touch my life even if I try to isolate myself as much as I can as a 75 year old who has to pick up meds at the hospital and because of underlying health problems cant avoid at least a couple of doctor appointments a year.
To this excellent list, I will add the following thing to think about. You've listed all these people; and be aware of what environments you may encounter them in. Here's my personal example. I train nurses and therapists, and sometimes I sit in the back of the Room with the nurses supporting them during the class while another trainer teaches the class.

As a result, I am often sitting in and logging in at 1 of the training PC' s that the students also use. Twice in 7 years, I was asked to come in to take over training from a trainer who had gotten sick. And I hadn't wiped down there keyboard. And as result I got sick as well. Starting about 3 weeks ago, I am now always disinfecting with the Clorox wipes any keyboard in a classroom where I am about to sit down and work on. And it is not just nurses. Think of the lovely things some of the Respiratory Therapists may have been carrying in with them...

Looking at this list again made me realize another thing. I know there are certain restaurants, bars and hotels that pilots and stewardesses frequent. Might want to avoid them in general. Also, I'm going to get a short hair cut tomorrow. Real short so I don't have to frequent that kind of place for a while. And I'm putting my massages on hold for quite some time...
 
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Trivium Pursuit

Has No Life - Lives on TB
WHO accused of ‘delaying’ response to coronavirus outbreak to appease China
As the number of coronavirus deaths spike, the World Health Organisations has been accused of “delaying” its response for a sinister reason.
news.com.auFebruary 16, 20209:56am

The World Health Organisation (WHO) has been accused of “delaying” its response to the coronavirus outbreak in an attempt to appease China.

By the time the UN agency declared a global health emergency on January 30, the virus had already spread well beyond China.

The WHO says it first heard reports of a previously-unknown virus in Wuhan, the epicentre of the outbreak, on December 31 last year.

It’s estimated to have started in early December, but local Chinese officials sought to play down the virus so as not to attract the ire of the Chinese Communist Party.

Public health experts suspect that before the meeting on January 23, China tried to downplay the virus and urged the agency not to designate it a “public health emergency of international concern”, according to The Times. The WHO has denied influence claims.

Dr John Ashton, one of the UK’s leading public health specialists, said the WHO “failed to declare a global public health emergency in a timely way”.

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It comes as the number of deaths from the coronavirus has skyrocketed to 1527, with over 67,000 infections worldwide.

66,492 of those cases are based in mainland China, with 338 in Japan, 72 in Singapore, 56 in Hong Kong and 15 in Australia.

The agency argues it didn’t declare a global emergency earlier because there was no evidence of human-to-human transmission outside China.

China is a key strategic partner of the WHO and its financial backing is important to the agency’s future — particularly after the US, its top donor, last week said it wants to cut its contribution by 53 per cent.

The WHO has also faced scrutiny for its praise of China, having hailed the country’s “extraordinary” effort to tackle the epidemic.

Economist Defence Editor Shashank Joshi tweeted a photo of the coronavirus panel at the Munich Security Conference, saying the WHO’s representative was “absolutely” gushing over China.


According to Joshi, only one leader at the conference — Human Rights Watch Executive Director Ken Roth — was critical of China’s response to the virus.


One adviser to the WHO told The Times: “(The agency) has great difficulty in being openly critical of a member state as its only real power is persuasion.

“I suspect praising China for their response was the best way to keep the Chinese on board.”

FIRST CORONAVIRUS DEATH IN EUROPE

Meanwhile, an 80-year-old Chinese tourist infected with the coronavirus has died in France, the first fatality in Europe and the fourth outside mainland China.

The Chinese man died at the Bichat hospital in Paris of a lung infection due to the flu-like virus, authorities said on Saturday.

“We have to get our health system ready to face a possible pandemic propagation of the virus, and therefore the spreading of the virus across France,” Health Minister Agnes Buzyn said.

British mathematical epidemiology expert Robin Thompson said that with nearly 50 cases in Europe, a death was not surprising.

“The most important thing to point out, however, is that there still hasn’t been sustained person-to-person transmission in Europe,” he said.

There have now been four coronavirus deaths outside of mainland China. Picture: NOEL CELIS / AFP

There have now been four coronavirus deaths outside of mainland China. Picture: NOEL CELIS / AFPSource:AFP

In China some cities remain in lockdown, streets are deserted, employees are nervous, and travel bans and quarantine orders are in place around the country.

Those returning to Beijing from the New Year holiday have been ordered to undergo a 14-day self-quarantine to prevent the spread of the virus.

Many factories are yet to re-open, disrupting supply chains for everyone from smartphone makers to car manufacturers.

World Health Organisation chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said it was impossible to tell where the epidemic will spread.

“We are concerned by the continued increase in the number of cases in China,” Tedros told the Munich Security Conference in Germany.

“We are concerned by the lack of urgency in funding the response from the international community.

“Most of all, we are concerned about the potential havoc this virus could wreak in countries with weaker health systems.”

The biggest cluster outside China has been on cruise ship the Diamond Princess, quarantined off Japan’s Yokohama.

Out of about 3700 passengers and crew on board, 285 people have tested positive and been sent to hospital.

The US said on Saturday it plans to send an aircraft to pick up American passengers and take them back home where they face another two weeks of isolation “out of an abundance of caution”.

An 83-year-old American woman from the Westerdam cruise ship, which finally docked in Cambodia on Thursday, tested positive for the coronavirus on landing in Malaysia, health authorities there said on Saturday.

US President Donald Trump thanked “beautiful” Cambodia for taking the castaway cruise ship in a rare message to a nation that has often been at odds with Washington.

In Hong Kong, which has seen months of anti-Beijing protests, hundreds marched on Saturday to demand full closure of the border with mainland China and to oppose plans to turn some buildings into quarantine hubs.

The sickness, now officially labelled Covid-19, has killed around two per cent of those infected. Cases have spread faster than other respiratory virus this century.

— with Reuters
There should be criminal penalties for these failures to alert. Contributory negligence to deaths, I'm thinking.
 

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
Posted for fair use.....

Eric Niiler
Science
02.14.2020 07:00 AM
Darpa Cranks Up Antibody Research to Stall Coronavirus
It's not the same as a vaccine. But a shorter-lived antibody treatment may shield health workers and family members during the early days of an outbreak.

Sometime in the next day or two, a medical courier will deliver a styrofoam cooler to the offices of AbCellera, a biotech firm headquartered in downtown Vancouver, British Columbia. Inside the box, packed in dry ice, will be a vial of blood prepared by researchers at the US National Institutes of Health, who drew it from a patient infected with the Covid-19 coronavirus.
The blood sample will be taken to AbCellera’s laboratory and placed in a microfluidic chip the size of a credit card that will isolate millions of white blood cells and put each one into a tiny chamber. Then the device will record images of each cell every hour, searching for the antibodies each one produces to fight the coronavirus.
“We can check every single cell within hours that it comes out of the patient,” says AbCellera’s CEO, Carl Hansen. “Now with a single patient sample we can generate 400 antibodies in a single day of screening.”

Ask WIRED
Image may contain Machine and Texture

What is a coronavirus?
Antibodies are proteins that the immune system creates to remove viruses and other foreign objects from the body. Vaccines work by stimulating the body’s own immune system to produce antibodies against an invading virus. This immunity remains, should the virus attack again in the future. Vaccines provide protection for years, but they also take a long time to develop. Currently, there is no vaccine that can be used against the virus that causes Covid-19, although drug companies like Johnson & Johnson and Cambridge-based Moderna are working on developing them. So researchers are instead investigating whether an infusion of antibodies alone can be used as a short-lived—but immediately available—treatment to protect doctors and hospital workers, as well as family members of infected patients who need it right away.

The Pentagon’s Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, or Darpa, launched its Pandemic Prevention Platform program two years ago with the goal of isolating and reproducing antibodies to deadly new viruses within 60 days. It enlisted researchers at Duke and Vanderbilt medical schools, as well as AbCellera and pharmaceutical giant AstraZeneca.

In preparation for an outbreak like the coronavirus now gripping China, scientists with the program made test runs using viruses responsible for severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS) and Middle East respiratory syndrome (MERS). Both are members of the coronavirus family and closely related to Covid-19.
After isolating these antibodies, the researchers then capture their genetic code, using it as a blueprint to mass produce them. Their goal is to create an antibody treatment that can be injected directly into a patient, giving them an instant boost against the invading coronavirus.
“We are going to take the patient’s blood, identify the antibodies, and do it very rapidly,” said Amy Jenkins, program manager at Darpa’s biological technologies office, which is supporting AbCellera’s work with a four-year, $35 million grant. “Once we have the antibodies isolated, then we can give them back to people who are not yet sick. It’s similar to a vaccine and will prevent infection. The difference is that vaccines will last a long time. Our approach is immediate immunity and doesn’t last as long.”
If all goes well, Jenkins said, the antibody countermeasure would last several months rather than the several years that vaccines are effective. That said, the researchers still need to test the safety and efficacy of this antibody protein in animal and human clinical trials.
Of course, developing a treatment using antibodies isn’t simple. First, only one of the 15 US patients struck by Covid-19 has so far agreed to donate blood. (China has thousands of infected patients, but US researchers haven’t been able to get their blood for research here.) That means that AbCellera is on the waiting list to get a few drops of that valuable sample, along with several other companies and academic institutions that are partnering with Darpa and the CDC to develop treatments. “We have mobilized our team and are getting in place as soon as it arrives,” says Ester Falconer, AbCellera’s head of research and development. “We are raring to go.”
Advertisement

A team of Chinese scientists announced on January 31 that they had found an antibody which binds to the surface of the coronavirus and appears to neutralize it. Their research paper, which appeared as a preprint on the site BioXArchiv, hasn’t been peer reviewed by other scientists. And it is not clear how effective the antibody would be once it is mass produced and then tested in animals or humans.
Should antibody treatments work, there’s also the question of who would get them first, whether its first-line responders in specific hospitals where Covid-19 patients are being treated, or perhaps people at home with family members who test positive. (The antibody supply will likely be distributed by federal public health officials.)
Another potential looming issue is a bottleneck for scaling up antibody mass production. Medical experts say it's unlikely that pharmaceutical makers can make enough to protect everyone who needs them. “The constraint is production capacity,” says James Lawler, an emerging disease specialist at the University of Nebraska Medical Center who is not involved in the Darpa program. “We are getting pretty good at finding appropriate antibody preparations. But the problem we still have is: How do we produce those rapidly enough to have an impact in a global epidemic?”

To protect the doctors, nurses, and health care workers at the more than 5,500 hospitals and medical centers in the US would take more than 1 million doses of treatment, according to Lawler. “Scaling to a million doses of antibody product is a heavy lift to do in a few months,” he says. “We don’t have scaling capacity for therapeutics or prophylaxis in that time frame. In two years, we could get to that point.”
Despite those obstacles, medical researchers involved in the Darpa program say they are ready to fire up sophisticated tools for cellular screening and imaging that have been boosted in recent years by advances in machine learning and pattern recognition. AbCellera’s machine is trained to look through millions of images to find the perfect one of an antibody binding to the surface of the virus.
At Vanderbilt University’s School of Medicine, Robert Carnahan is also waiting for the blood from that first US patient sample to run through Vanderbilt’s own antibody screening technology. Carnahan and his colleagues at the Vanderbilt Vaccine Center used their method last year to find new antibodies against the Zika virus. Their initial test resulted in 800 antibodies that were narrowed down to 20 for animal testing, and finally one that stopped the virus from spreading. That entire process only took 78 days, Carnahan said.
“We need the most potent antibodies,” Carnahan said. “That requires a lot of work. Most of the work in our lab during the Zika trial was to take a small subset into these more detailed studies. In the midst of a pandemic, you don’t have that luxury.”
Carnahan said he expects to receive the US coronavirus blood sample any day now. Given the lack of US patients, his colleagues are also trying to get them from infected patients living outside of China. But acquiring the samples requires working directly with hospital administrators and public health officials in each country, because no international body is yet coordinating a sharing program.
“Everyone’s anxious,” Carnahan said about the researchers on his team at Vanderbilt. “When the human samples become available, things will progress quickly. And it’s probably OK from a safety perspective that these samples aren’t flying all around the country.”

https://www.facebook.com/dialog/fee...-share&utm_brand=wired&utm_social-type=earned

 

1-12020

Senior Member
Can anyone provide a link to the 1000 quarantined in los angeles due to covid19
I did a search and only get 1000 quarantined for measles?
 

shane

Has No Life - Lives on TB
"PPE masks in the dryer on high heat"--Does that include N95 masks?
Yes, but N95 masks are varied in their materials and construction and attachments,
need to test one to assure the process doesn't destroy the integrity of the mask.

I'd also try testing one in the dishwasher, too, see how it held up, but that's just me...

Panic Early, Beat the Rush!

- Shane
 

Trivium Pursuit

Has No Life - Lives on TB
if the number of lights in windows comes anywhere near the actual survival rate, we are so screwed
Take a long look at this picture. I see 3 possibilities.

1: Many of these apartments aren't lit because the people are being sick in their homes and don't have the energy to turn the lights on.

2. Many of these apartments belong to people who are now hospitalized from mild to severe levels of the disease.

3. Most of the former occupants have now been cremated--or decomposing in said apartments.

I'm leaning towards it being a mix of scenarios 1 and 2 together. If it is scenario 3, then we truly are in the "add TWO zeros to the public CCP statistics." realm. Which means the Chinese are facing a disaster unseen since the black plague in Europe in the middle ages. My personal swag: 65% home and ill, 20% hospitalized, 15% deceased.

What this scenario does not address is something that was not addressed in the picture. Which is, have this apartment building' doors been welded shut? In which case my number estimates would change dramatically.

I would also think that if there were a number of decomposing bodies, AND if the doors had not been welded shut, then there would be citizen journalist reports and outcry. Which I have not seen yet.

After I posted this, Intestinal Fortitude pointed out that this pic could have been taken at 3AM, for all we know. In which case, I retract all of my scenarios above.
 
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naegling62

Veteran Member
Can anyone provide a link to the 1000 quarantined in los angeles due to covid19
I did a search and only get 1000 quarantined for measles?
I can't remember where it was on here but it was real. It was from a local news cast in LA. Like a lot of things the main stream media puts out, it is covered locally but not nationally when it's something they want to control the narrative.
 

pops88

Girls with Guns Member
I was looking at the name, Covid-19, in an article that referenced the new name. And then it hit me in the gut with a sick feeling why the name- to distinguish it from Covid-20 (as in 2020), Covid-21, etc., like the Spanish flu coming in waves. This way they can distinguish between waves. I think it mutates too fast to have it named by the mutation / strain they're seeing. Also, if we have more than one wave a year, it can become Covid-20a, b, c.... Epiphanies aren't always positive.
 

naegling62

Veteran Member
I was looking at the name, Covid-19, in an article that referenced the new name. And then it hit me in the gut with a sick feeling why the name- to distinguish it from Covid-20 (as in 2020), Covid-21, etc., like the Spanish flu coming in waves. This way they can distinguish between waves. I think it mutates too fast to have it named by the mutation / strain they're seeing. Also, if we have more than one wave a year, it can become Covid-20a, b, c.... Epiphanies aren't always positive.
Hmm....not a bad observation. They didn't give SARS or MERS a date in the name.
 

bw

Fringe Ranger
I bought 1 set of two n-95 masks. I should have bought more but didn’t at the time, rather costly. I was wondering if you could put it in microwave along with water or even vinegar and microwave them to reuse them. Would that kill the virus?

I wouldn't trust a microwave. Microwaves heat by exciting molecules in the material, and different molecules heat differently. So you could have a N95 mask in there with the filter not heating at all, while the metal components are throwing sparks and the cloth bits are smoking.
 

raven

TB Fanatic
Take a long look at this picture. I see 3 possibilities.

1: Many of these apartments aren't lit because the people are being sick in their homes and don't have the energy to turn the lights on.

2. Many of these apartments belong to people who are now hospitalized from mild to severe levels of the disease.

3. Most of the former occupants have now been cremated--or decomposing in said apartments.

I'm leaning towards it being a mix of scenarios 1 and 2 together. If it is scenario 3, then we truly are in the "add TWO zeros to the public CCP statistics." realm. Which means the Chinese are facing a disaster unseen since the black plague in Europe in the middle ages. My personal swag: 65% home and ill, 20% hospitalized, 15% deceased.

What this scenario does not address is something that was not addressed in the picture. Which is, have this apartment building' doors been welded shut? In which case my number estimates would change dramatically.

I would also think that if there were a number of decomposing bodies, AND if the doors had not been welded shut, then there would be citizen journalist reports and outcry. Which I have not seen yet.
good analysis.
if it was really at 7 PM, it would still be very bad as the lights represent the percentage of people who are still active this early in the evening - a very small percentage
 

shane

Has No Life - Lives on TB

1-12020

Senior Member

#1 oldskool

"You finally really did it. You maniacs!
Not to de-rail.........however, I have a scanner that I am willing to sale. Perfect shape, and will sell for 1/2 price of new, send me a message and we will go from there! Mod's....plz delete if in bad taste.
 

bw

Fringe Ranger
The World Health Organisation (WHO) has been accused of “delaying” its response to the coronavirus outbreak in an attempt to appease China.

There is no gain in getting crossways with China over this. It's way too late for China to fix anything, and our own mistakes have put China in control of our meds and med equipment. We did this to ourselves, and now we have to live with it until we can (if we're smart) rebuild our own capability.
 

1911user

Veteran Member
One point if I may to illustrate the problem with reusing/cleaning/trying to recondition masks.

Used masks and used condoms both have protected their users from potentially deadly disease.

You could clean and reuse them. But would you?

Joke response: I might reuse a mask, but not a condom :)

If the risk/reward was worth it, yes, I might reuse a mask. If this gets bad here, doing anything, or nothing, will all carry risk. Manage the various risks and keep going as long as possible until the crisis is over.

Thank you for the real medical info you are providing. It helps to understand and manage some of the risks.
 

bw

Fringe Ranger
One point if I may to illustrate the problem with reusing/cleaning/trying to recondition masks.

Used masks and used condoms both have protected their users from potentially deadly disease.

You could clean and reuse them. But would you?

Depends on how desperate you are, and your alternatives.
 

shane

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Shane, have you asked Dr. Hatfill what his take is on the current threat to us as individuals is here in the US?
Regular updates from him reinforce, and ever more daily, that the Chinese are not over-reacting
and we are not immune to similar numbers erupting here, too. Our coming shortages, from our
dependence on Chinese for our drugs, could unleash nationwide crisis/panic even before virus.

Panic Early, Beat the Rush!
- Shane
 

marsh

On TB every waking moment

Potent binding of 2019 novel coronavirus spike protein by a SARS coronavirus-specific human monoclonal antibody

ABSTRACT
The newly identified 2019 novel coronavirus (2019-nCoV) has caused more than 800 laboratory-confirmed human infections, including 25 deaths, posing a serious threat to human health. Currently, however, there is no specific antiviral treatment or vaccine. Considering the relatively high identity of receptor binding domain (RBD) in 2019-nCoV and SARS-CoV, it is urgent to assess the cross-reactivity of anti-SARS-CoV antibodies with 2019-nCoV spike protein, which could have important implications for rapid development of vaccines and therapeutic antibodies against 2019-nCoV. Here, we report for the first time that a SARS-CoV-specific human monoclonal antibody, CR3022, could bind potently with 2019-nCoV RBD (KD of 6.3 nM). The epitope of CR3022 does not overlap with the ACE2 binding site within 2019-nCoV RBD. Therefore, CR3022 has the potential to be developed as candidate therapeutics, alone or in combination with other neutralizing antibodies, for the prevention and treatment of 2019-nCoV infections. Interestingly, some of the most potent SARS-CoV-specific neutralizing antibodies (e.g., m396, CR3014) that target the ACE2 binding site of SARS-CoV failed to bind 2019-nCoV spike protein, indicating that the difference in the RBD of SARS-CoV and 2019-nCoV has a critical impact for the cross-reactivity of neutralizing antibodies, and that it is still necessary to develop novel monoclonal antibodies that could bind specifically to 2019-nCoV RBD.
 

1911user

Veteran Member
If that was where they said not to exceed 80C or it'd break down some fibers, that's around 175F, yes?
I think most dryers, even on hottest setting, are still just under 175F, though might be a few exceptions.

Lower heat, longer cycle, might be the way to go.

Panic Early, Beat the Rush!
- Shane
Why add heat at all? Won't room temperature air kill the virus, just slower but with less stress on the mask? Less stress means less chance of degraded filter performance.
 
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Freeholder

This too shall pass.
good analysis.
if it was really at 7 PM, it would still be very bad as the lights represent the percentage of people who are still active this early in the evening - a very small percentage

Maybe some of the residents were elsewhere (out of the city) when the quarantine went into effect, too. Some might still have been with family elsewhere for the holiday.

Kathleen
 

marsh

On TB every waking moment
My daughter called and asked if I wanted to go to a crab feed this evening. This is held in two huge rooms with about 500 people.

Since I am still just recovering from the regular respiratory flu I got from my grand daughter, I told her I didn't want to pass it on or get another case from someone else. Her voice sounded miffed. (I also know the tickets are expensive but the only reason she invited me was because someone else didn't want to go and they had an extra ticket.) I can see she is not going to be happy with me distancing myself during this. Wait until I think it is time to stop driving the kids to school and she is without a chauffeur. Too bad. It is my life.
 

Seeker22

Has No Life - Lives on TB
There is no gain in getting crossways with China over this. It's way too late for China to fix anything, and our own mistakes have put China in control of our meds and med equipment. We did this to ourselves, and now we have to live with it until we can (if we're smart) rebuild our own capability.

Just posted to show what way the wind was beginning to blow. We did indeed do it to ourselves and getting pissy about it at this stage of the game may make things worse. I am all for rebuilding what we had. ASAP.
 

shane

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Why add heat at all? Won't room temperature air kill the virus, just slower but with less stress on the mask? Less stress means less chance of degraded filter performance.
I don't know how long is long enough at room temperature.

If going to do that, though, might as well do it in the sunshine.

Dr Hatfill also had said you could expose it to the sun for four
hours on each side, and that'd neutralize the virus, too. I'd
earlier posted his different suggestions for disinfecting PPE.

Panic Early, Beat the Rush!
- Shane
 

Doomer Doug

TB Fanatic
I hunted down the Los Angeles story about the four homeless people who died, since some thought it was the China Plague virus, which it was not. They most likely parked too close to the back wall of a strip mall and died from carbon monoxide gas.

the link is here.


Homeless family of 4 found dead in parked van in Southern California
By Robert Gearty, | Fox News
 

Doomer Doug

TB Fanatic
I hunted down the Los Angeles story about the four homeless people who died, since some thought it was the China Plague virus, which it was not.

the link is here.


Homeless family of 4 found dead in parked van in Southern California
By Robert Gearty, | Fox News
 

Trivium Pursuit

Has No Life - Lives on TB
If that was where they said not to exceed 80C or it'd break down some fibers, that's around 175F, yes?
I think most dryers, even on hottest setting, are still just under 175F, though might be a few exceptions.

Lower heat, longer cycle, might be the way to go.

Panic Early, Beat the Rush!
- Shane
Thanks for all of this; I only managed to score about 10 N95's. Would love to be able to reuse, and would not want to give one up for experieentation, but probably should. Unless some public-spirited member here would like to sell me some out of their well-prepped hoard??? :)
 

Doomer Doug

TB Fanatic
oops, double post again

Shane, every single one of our urban centers has large numbers, hundreds to thousands of so called homeless who live in dismal conditions and will likely be killed in zone. My wordpress blog has that title since I think vast numbers of people will be killed, or allowed to die, in secure zones, like their houses, or even cities.

Here in CONUS once the various street type drugs vanish things will get nasty. We can joke about people withdrawing from coffee, but meth, or heroin or whatever will be nasty. Next, that drug they give the OD types that prevents them from dying will also no doubt vanish. Again, once all that happens we are going to see what will be in effect a great cleansing of our urban centers as the various homeless pathologies take control. Shane, I am wondering if "they" are factoring that in, or will they just adopt a killed in zone policy, like my essay suggests they will? I would like Dr. Hatfill's opinion on what, if any,, policy is planned to be adopted once 10,000 homeless corpses start to rot in Los Angeles for example. My blog link is in my signature.
 

raven

TB Fanatic
Just posted to show what way the wind was beginning to blow. We did indeed do it to ourselves and getting pissy about it at this stage of the game may make things worse. I am all for rebuilding what we had. ASAP.
This situation proves Trump was right and reinforces the idea that maintaining manufacturing industry is
a matter of "National Security". Not withstanding Joe Biden's recommendation that coal miners should learn to code, Coal Mines are also a matter of "National Security"
 
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