CORONA Main Coronavirus thread

jward

jward

passin' thru
Length of time from infection to signs/symptoms (Fever, body aches, etc)

1) What is the incubation period? Why do I keep hearing 14 days? Is this scary?

The incubation period so far shows a period of 2-7 days with a 95% confidence interval, with median cases at 4.8 days. [1] The 14 day limit is the current maximum theorized incubation period from a Zhejiang case study. The exact maximum is difficult to know because this is based on patient survey and contact reconstruction and prone to error, but 14 days is the "safe" upper bound so far. This figure is similar to the ~5 day incubation for SARS. [2] There is no need to panic about this as it's very normal viral behavior.
 
marsh

marsh

On TB every waking moment
CarolynA said:
I spent the entire day in the ER at a Fresno hospital today. A whole lot of the staff was out with the Super Bowl Party Flu - AKA hangovers.
On a more serious note, there were not many people in the hospital with common flu symptoms or even coughs.
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Meanwhile, in an adjacent county, I picked my grand daughter up from school and she announced that she had the flu. (After I made her wipe her hands with moist sanitary wipes, which is our usual procedure,) she proceeded to cough multiple times into her arm.

I had my flu shot and my pneumonia shot, but I am also the designated chauffeur and sick room attendant for my 3 grand children while mom and dad work. I figure I am a goner - lol
 
Weps

Weps

Veteran Member
Mark D said:
Anyone else come across the apparent "mistake" of real numbers being temporarily published on 26-Jan and again on 02-Feb??? Red numbers are SUSPECTED, yellow is CONFIRMED, green is RECOVERED, and black is DEAD.

"Apparently", these numbers we only up for a short time before the censors addressed the issue... Who knows.

26-Jan:
6acsu6M.jpg


02-Feb:
s40aRvV.jpg
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DW and I use Google Translate camera mode all the time, it translates printed or written words by overlaying it with the English translation;

Zoomed.jpg
 

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jward

jward

passin' thru
marsh said:
Meanwhile, in an adjacent county, I picked my grand daughter up from school and she announced that she had the flu. (After I made her wipe her hands with moist sanitary wipes, which is our usual procedure,) she proceeded to cough multiple times into her arm.

I had my flu shot and my pneumonia shot, but I am also the designated chauffeur and sick room attendant for my 3 grand children while mom and dad work. I figure I am a goner - lol
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No- you are a well trained warrior who will have the knowledge, skills and foresight to protect yourself and your loved ones!
 
P

Peanut

Resident Pit Yorkie :)
Tristan said:
I think that had to hurt their pride. Hope I'm wrong...

US peeps have been saying they've been offering help for days. Is the message not getting through, or not considered politically advantageous at the time by the CCP? Hmmmmm.
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The US offered to help us and it took them months to actually send their people....the US is to blame for your family member's death, not us!
 
Tesss

Tesss

Veteran Member
jward said:
Aww Tess : ( Hugs & Hot Tea & oodles o' understanding. Talking to us is a good thing. So is keeping yourself physically active, and in whatever prayer or reflective program you practice. Your feelings are so very normal, but as you realize, we can't go taking outsiders to task as an outlet (though goodness knows the talking to they need is legion!)

Is there any way we can help? Say the word, and we're there. In the mean time, breath slowly, deeply and know this is all
surface stuff- those middle messy chapters, as I like to call them, and we know how the story ends! <3
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Thank you. I truly appreciate your comments. Drinking that cup of comfort right now. You are kind.
 
Old Greek

Old Greek

Veteran Member
Tesss said:
Today I went to get some more can goods. I saw a woman put her nose and hand down in the grapes and she grabbed a few. She walked off with her cart munching away on the fruit she had just stolen. I spoke to a person who worked there. She was shocked but never said a word to the grape stealing woman. I was so mad and I confronted the woman. I started yelling at her and I was not kind. I have NEVER EVER yelled like that at anyone in a public place before. I even startled myself. It was like this inconsiderate, stupid, and selfish woman hit my last button. I had to seriously restrain self to keep from punching her. I’ve never felt so much hitting someone like that. She was obnoxious to me but that was to be expected. I’m trying to not get the regular flu!

Our 50th wedding is coming up the end of April. Our options for a celebration plans are being destroyed. We seriously talked about a long cruise or going to Cancun or Hawaii. Now, it looks like we will have to put off any plans until later in the summer. I am not a bridezilla type person so this action is totally out of character for me. sorry ....I just needed to share and pray that others who see people do stupid contaminating behavior like this to food don’t lash out like I did.

My point of this post is that I did not know how tightly wound up I was that I lost my temper because of frustration building up and still trying to “prep”.
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Try not to be so hard on yourself. "Everyone" has a really bad day at some point. Congrats on your upcoming 50th anniversary. That is something to be proud of!!
 
K

ktrapper

Veteran Member
Tesss said:
Today I went to get some more can goods. I saw a woman put her nose and hand down in the grapes and she grabbed a few. She walked off with her cart munching away on the fruit she had just stolen. I spoke to a person who worked there. She was shocked but never said a word to the grape stealing woman. I was so mad and I confronted the woman. I started yelling at her and I was not kind. I have NEVER EVER yelled like that at anyone in a public place before. I even startled myself. It was like this inconsiderate, stupid, and selfish woman hit my last button. I had to seriously restrain self to keep from punching her. I’ve never felt so much hitting someone like that. She was obnoxious to me but that was to be expected. I’m trying to not get the regular flu!

Our 50th wedding is coming up the end of April. Our options for a celebration plans are being destroyed. We seriously talked about a long cruise or going to Cancun or Hawaii. Now, it looks like we will have to put off any plans until later in the summer. I am not a bridezilla type person so this action is totally out of character for me. sorry ....I just needed to share and pray that others who see people do stupid contaminating behavior like this to food don’t lash out like I did.

My point of this post is that I did not know how tightly wound up I was that I lost my temper because of frustration building up and still trying to “prep”.
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Tess, I feel your frustration. I think we are all tightly wound. The older I get the less patience I have for stupid and the less filter I have. Last Sunday night I was waiting to check my bags at the the AK Airlines desk when I heard a guy, older than me, walking across the floor behind me hacking up a lung and not trying to cover it. I had just spent three days reading this thread and other kung flu news. The guy apparently worked for Delta. I said Hey! Can’t you cough into you coat or your sleeve instead of hacking all over every where, dad blame feller. He said “ I am not sick just got choked on some peanuts” I said yeah? Well don’t nobody else know that. There ain’t a sign around your neck saying “Choked on peanuts” cover your friggin mouth from now on.
I turned back around to the ticket counter and said “Boy, some people’s kids”
The lady at my ticket counter said “ Oh I am so glad you said something to him, he does that all the time”
I don’t know what I would have done had I seen the woman you saw, Tess
I just don’t have any tolerance left for stupid.
 
jward

jward

passin' thru
I did not know this about their system- certainly doesn't make me trust the #s any less, but still- sigh -

6) What about deaths? Have a lot of people died? Why is the official death rate so low? Is there a cover-up?

It is true that the death rate reported by China is heavily misleading. But this is NOT due to an active cover-up. There are 2 main structural reasons:

  1. This is primarily due to the structural method of how China records deaths on their certificate. It is established policy/practice in China to record the final cause of death, rather than all existing conditions and overlapping factors.
For example, if a (say 85 yo) patient in the US with diabetes and an existing heart condition gets nCoV, is admitted in the hospital, is confirmed with nCoV, then dies of heart failure, he is recorded as dying of nCoV AND heart failure with other complications. However if the same patient dies in China, he would only be recorded of dying by heart failure.

This is a well-known issue with China and co-morbid diseases. I don't agree with it, I wouldn't do it, but I don't run China. But this is not a new method they made up to try to hide deaths here, it's just the way it's done. This has led to jokes in the epidemiology community that "it's impossible to die of flu in China", because they basically don't record any deaths where the patient has flu. See here this recent article from the Global Times, which is one of China's state-sponsored newspapers.
 
Burrito

Burrito

Veteran Member
Peanut said:
Nice to see you posting Burrito!
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Thanks Peanut! When I left for China I only expected my wife to be returning with me. We were able to get her parents (they are mine too!) out with us. Our small house wasn't cleaned and prepared for extra guests so we have been busy moving and cleaning things. Thankfully I felt the need to clean and prep the guest bed and had fresh linens in a bag waiting for our arrival.

We are all still adjusting to the time difference, and I still can't believe we made it out and with her parents!! I promise I will write the story down, but right now I am trying to keep the wife happy. :)
 
TheSearcher

TheSearcher

Are you sure about that?
marsh

marsh

On TB every waking moment
Mark D said:
If this request is indeed genuine, they have either managed to destroy all of the evidence, or things have truly become apocalyptic.
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From what I understand, in a top down communist system, the upper level must never take the blame. Blame must be pushed down to lower levels. The Mayor of Wuhan has resigned. However, the virus has continued to spread, even with additional mass quarantine actions imposed by the state. The state is looking around for someone to blame and would not be appreciative of a US knight in shining armor to ride in and save the day -appearing to have superior knowledge and resources.

One sees China reacting to bans on Chinese people from Wuhan coming into the US and quarantines of other Chinese, as well as expats. You see a negative reaction by the Chinese leadership as if this is causation for a loss of face. As if it was criticism for their not doing enough, even though they did those mass quarantines and business shut downs, when actually, it is a matter of epidemiology and control of pandemic risk . You also see Democrats and unfriendlies such as Al Jazeera talk about how racist American's actions have been, when the fact is that if you have recently visited or come from Wuhan, you currently pose a greater risk of contracting or passing the Wuflu than someone else. We even quarantined our own diplomat evacuees.

Unfortunately, Wilbur Ross' comments about US workers benefiting from the supply chain disruption of China's sorrow was incredibly insensitive. The President is also not known for his diplomatic sensitivity. China's leadership is looking to retain power and look good in their population's eyes. It would be real tempting at this point to pivot and somehow lay the blame for the virus or failed handling of it with the United States.

As a video above explained, the Boomers of China are its "Lost Generation." Raised during the time of Mao, many were not formally educated. The concept of a virus, something unseen, that can cause you to be sick and that can be avoided by washing ones hands is beyond them. They will look for other explanations. The video even stated that soap is not common in bathrooms and hand washing is not a universal protocol in medical settings. (This was that video with the two guys - one of which had trained Chinese doctors in English, medical terminology and etiquette. )

I will look for that video link:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk5XkhUKMDM
1:11:56 min
 
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Tom McDowell

Tom McDowell

BAMN
CDC Presser Highlighs Via Dr. Niman:
Some of PUI's in transit to CDC
Virus isolated
Seeking approval for (EUA) diagnostics. Sending to state labs in international partners.

Causes for concern
Number of positives
Death outside of China (Philippines)
H2H

New airports for screening
Honolulu
Washington-Dulles
Newark
Dallas
Detroit


Audio file:
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/t0203-novel-coronavirus.mp3

===
Transcript:
www.cdc.gov

Coronavirus Disease 2019

CDC provides credible COVID-19 health information to the U.S.
www.cdc.gov www.cdc.gov

===
.
 
Weps

Weps

Veteran Member
Texican said:
Original reports had the bioweapons lab 2 miles from the wet market....

The bioweapons lab keeps changing location....

How about that....

Texican....
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It may not be that they're changing location, Wuhan has a score biomedical, bioengineering and biosafety facilities,
to name a few;
Wuhan Bioengineering Institute
Wuhan Institute of Virology - Chinese Academy of Sciences
Department of Biomedical Engineering - Wuhan University School of Medicine
School of Chemical Engineering and Pharmacy - Wuhan Institute of Technology

Additionally, it doesn't require a BSL-4, a BSL-3 or a BSL-2 following BSL-3 practices is rated to handle pathogens like a coronavirus;

Biosafety in Microbiological and Biomedical Laboratories

Laboratory Safety and Containment Recommendations

SARS-CoV may be detected in respiratory, blood, or stool specimens. The exact
mode of transmission of SARS-CoV laboratory-acquired infection has not been
established, but in clinical settings the primary mode of transmission appears
through direct or indirect contact of mucous membranes with infectious
respiratory droplets.

In clinical laboratories, whole blood, serum, plasma and urine specimens
should be handled using Standard Precautions, which includes use of gloves,
gown, mask, and eye protection. Any procedure with the potential to generate
aerosols (e.g., vortexing or sonication of specimens in an open tube) should be
performed in a BSC. Use sealed centrifuge rotors or gasketed safety carriers for
centrifugation. Rotors and safety carriers should be loaded and unloaded in a
BSC. Procedures conducted outside a BSC must be performed in a manner
that minimizes the risk of personnel exposure and environmental release.

The following procedures may be conducted in the BSL-2 setting: pathologic
examination and processing of formalin-fixed or otherwise inactivated tissues,
molecular analysis of extracted nucleic acid preparations, electron microscopic
studies with glutaraldehyde-fixed grids, routine examination of bacterial and fungal
cultures, routine staining and microscopic analysis of fixed smears, and final
packaging of specimens for transport to diagnostic laboratories for additional testing
(specimens should already be in a sealed, decontaminated primary container).

Activities involving manipulation of untreated specimens should be
performed in BSL-2 facilities following BSL-3 practices. In the rare event that
a procedure or process involving untreated specimens cannot be conducted
in a BSC, gloves, gown, eye protection, and respiratory protection (acceptable
methods of respiratory protection include: a properly fit-tested, National Institute
for Occupational Safety and Health [NIOSH]-approved filter respirator [N-95 or
higher level] or a PAPR equipped with HEPA filters) should be used. All personnel
who use respiratory protective devices should be enrolled in an appropriately
constituted respiratory protection program.

Work surfaces should be decontaminated upon completion of work with
appropriate disinfectants. All waste must be decontaminated prior to disposal.
Click to expand...
 
Tesss

Tesss

Veteran Member
ktrapper said:
Tess, I feel your frustration. I think we are all tightly wound. The older I get the less patience I have for stupid and the less filter I have. Last Sunday night I was waiting to check my bags at the the AK Airlines desk when I heard a guy, older than me, walking across the floor behind me hacking up a lung and not trying to cover it. I had just spent three days reading this thread and other kung flu news. The guy apparently worked for Delta. I said Hey! Can’t you cough into you coat or your sleeve instead of hacking all over every where, dad blame feller. He said “ I am not sick just got choked on some peanuts” I said yeah? Well don’t nobody else know that. There ain’t a sign around your neck saying “Choked on peanuts” cover your friggin mouth from now on.
I turned back around to the ticket counter and said “Boy, some people’s kids”
The lady at my ticket counter said “ Oh I am so glad you said something to him, he does that all the time”
I don’t know what I would have done had I seen the woman you saw, Tess
I just don’t have any tolerance left for stupid.
Click to expand...
I understand. I just don’t have the words. I’m afraid the “nice” folks are going to be speaking up more and more about thoughtless rude behavior. It isn’t going to be pretty. I need another cup of calming tea.
 
Tesss

Tesss

Veteran Member
Old Greek said:
Try not to be so hard on yourself. "Everyone" has a really bad day at some point. Congrats on your upcoming 50th anniversary. That is something to be proud of!!
Click to expand...
Thank you so much for your sweet words of encouragement. It helped to be really honest and share with you all what happened today. It also helped to hear back from you folks. You get it. I’m going back to lurker mode. Hugs to my tb2k friends.
 
goosebeans

goosebeans

Veteran Member
EMICT said:
These are some of the questions I have regarding this outbreak that I can't quite come up with a solid answer for...

1) Length of time from infection to signs/symptoms (Fever, body aches, etc)
2) Length of time from fever, body aches to pneumonia symptoms
3) Length of time from pneumonia symptoms until death if untreated

If we could get some solid figures for these questions, then we could start to determine which direction this outbreak is going, i.e. - More deadly / Less deadly

With the limited reports coming out of China, it's kind of hard to determine what mutation of this virus is causing what symptoms at any particular time in the infection process. I guess that is why most epidemics/pandemics are viewed from the backside instead of during the crisis because there are far to many variables with a virus that is constantly evolving and mutating.
Click to expand...

Somewhere, way up thread, I saw a time line for the Seattle patient. If I remember correctly, he developed pneumonia on the ninth day.
 
homecanner1

homecanner1

Veteran Member
Niman is saying the Chicago Cluster with the Schenzhen strain, is showing orf 8 markers matching positive for the London case. The Chicago case is showing two mutations. Is there a match to the Paris case?

Editing to add, the Paris case is showing match to the Australian cases. Different strains.
 
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