INTL India - China border crisis (Main Thread)


Senior Member

How Chinese and Indian media reacted to border clashes
By Hans Spross, Hao Gui | 6m ago

Indian newspapers and Chinese state media are demanding a continuation of dialogue after a bloody incident on the border. From an Indian perspective, however, New Delhi must "wake up" and assess Beijing's push for power.

'No diplomatic kowtowing'

The Times of India newspaper considers it conceivable that "Chinese aggression" could be a warning to India against joining the "absolutely legitimate" international demand for an independent investigation into the origins of the coronavirus outbreak.

"If Beijing succeeds in getting India to kowtow to China's diplomatic positions, this would also be a strong signal to the other neighboring countries about who is to decide what in Asia. Therefore, India should do exactly what China does not want it to do, and react with diplomatic countermeasures."

In this context, the commentator recommends sharp criticism of the "end” of Hong Kong's economy, China's human rights violations in Tibet and Xinjiang, and improving relations with Taipei.

"We should also pay China back in kind and use trade as a weapon by imposing sanctions on Chinese imports. Beijing can't kill our soldiers on the Line of Actual Control while benefiting from our huge market."

'False sense of security'

The Indian Express wrote, "The brutal killing of 20 Indian soldiers by the Chinese army has the potential to undermine the military detente agreed upon only a few days ago between senior officers on both sides." The writer also referred to the mutual accusation, that the other side had violated the consensus that they had both reached.

"Without a doubt, much is lost in the process of translation. At the same time, Chinese adventurism violates the agreement reached at several meetings between Xi Jinping and Narendra Modi. New Delhi should activate all political and military communication channels with Beijing to make this point clear."

The paper also claimed that many politicians in New Delhi have been lulled into a false sense of security by earlier diplomatic successes in border disputes with China between 2013 and 2017.

The Indian government can no longer ignore the "fundamental change in China's world view, according to which Beijing can take on anyone … India can no longer afford its political illusions about China."
'The only proper way of dialogue'

On Tuesday, the Jiefang Junbao (Newspaper of the People's Liberation Army) described Monday's bloody border incident as follows: "On the evening of June 15, the Indian army in the Galwan River valley along the Chinese-Indian border again carried out illegal activities across the Line of Actual Control, contrary to its obligations. They deliberately provoked an attack. The fights resulted in deaths and injuries."

The article then calls for "India to maintain strict control of its border forces, immediately cease all border violations and provocative actions and return to the right path of dialogue and talks to resolve differences."

'China's friendly gesture'

While India has acknowledged that at least 20 of its own soldiers were killed in the clash, and those "injured or killed on the Chinese side," China has made no mention of either Chinese or Indian victims.

"China does not want people in the two countries to compare the death toll, which would further fuel an already-irritable mood. It's a friendly gesture from China," wrote Hu Xijin, the chief editor of the nationalist daily Global Times in the Chinese-language edition of the paper.

He also appealed to readers not to rely on "rumors about the number of fatalities from abroad."

"We trust our government and the People's Liberation Army, and their de-escalation strategy in border conflicts."

On Wednesday, Chinese state television showed photos of a military maneuver on the plateau of Tibet. The speaker said, "Recently, a brigade of the People's Liberation Army stationed in Tibet conducted a three-dimensional exercise with live ammunition on the southern side of the Nyenchen Tanglha Mountains, 4700 meters above sea level. According to the description, the maneuver took place close to the Indian border."


There's almost literally nothing there but piles of gravel. It's all about border lines; China wants it so no one else can have it, and so they can force India into a submissive position for having given it to China.
As I mentioned in the beginning, I believe this is about manufacturing leaving China and moving to India, complicated with the WuFlu bringing China's manufacturing to a grinding halt. Together with increasing opportunity for S. Korea's manufacturing.


On TB every waking moment
As I mentioned in the beginning, I believe this is about manufacturing leaving China and moving to India, complicated with the WuFlu bringing China's manufacturing to a grinding halt. Together with increasing opportunity for S. Korea's manufacturing.
Xi is getting desperate and it will not end well.


passin' thru

Global: MilitaryInfo


NEW: China has brought in several hundred soldiers and heavy construction equipment into the Galwan valley. Additional troops were also deployed inside Indian territory near Patrol Point 14. PLA also deployed at least 12 artillery guns on its side of the border - Economic Times

China brings in hundreds of soldiers, heavy construction equipment to Galwan Valley
Sources said that despite earlier talks in which it was decided that the two sides would move back by a kilometre and create a temporary ‘no man’s land’ in the valley, the Chinese side has brought in additional troops and continues to remain deployed inside Indian territory near Patrol Point 14.
Manu Pubby
, ET Bureau|
Last Updated: Jun 18, 2020, 08.47 AM IST

Chinese troops have intruded up to 3 km in the Galwan area and are dominating the heights that threatens the strategic Darbuk-Shyok-Daulat Beg Oldie (DSDBO) road.
New Delhi: Even as talks for deescalation were on at the military level, the Chinese side seems to have carried out a move of deception by bringing in several hundred soldiers and heavy construction equipment into the Galwan valley, latest satellite images and ground reports reveal.

Border talks carried out on Wednesday at the Major General-level to defuse the situation have also failed, indicating that the Chinese side is not looking to disengage. More talks are planned in the coming days but there has been no resolution on the ground situation that remains tense.

Sources said that despite earlier talks in which it was decided that the two sides would move back by a kilometre and create a temporary ‘no man’s land’ in the valley, the Chinese side has brought in additional troops and continues to remain deployed inside Indian territory near Patrol Point 14.

These PLA troops were among the 800 odd soldiers who laid ambush on an Indian patrol party, killing 20 soldiers including the commanding officer on Monday night.

Satellite images from Tuesday show scores of vehicles used to transport troops, heavy construction equipment and tents for forward deployed soldiers. Satellite imagery expert Col Vinayak Bhat (retd) says that the images indicate at least one combined arms brigade has been deployed along the river and the build up has increased over the past few days.

As reported by ET, Chinese troops have intruded up to 3 km in the Galwan area and are dominating the heights that threatens the strategic Darbuk-Shyok-Daulat Beg Oldie (DSDBO) road. Col Bhat (retd) says that the intention of the Chinese could possibly be to attempt and capture the entire Galwan valley and its confluence point with the Shyok river, along which the Indian road runs.

Similar reports of a continued build up near the Gogra post, where the Chinese side has infiltrated at least 2 km across the LAC, are coming in even as the Indian side had made adequate adjustments on its side of the border.

The Gogra post has also been brought under Chinese artillery range after the PLA moved ahead and deployed at least 12 guns on its side of the border. A tough situation also continues at the Finger area along Pangong Tso lake and the Depsang plains where PLA troops have been deployed in strength.

Sources said that the occupation of Finger 4 — located over 5 km inside Indian claimed territory — continues at strength with bunkers at the crest and the base of the finger manned by Chinese soldiers with high powered rifles.

Last edited:


passin' thru

Indian army says 'no soldier in Chinese custody': Live updates
No Indian soldier is missing in action following Monday's clash with Chinese troops, report citing army sources says.

by Nadim Asrar
39 minutes ago

Editor's Picks
posted for fair use
Indian army says 'no soldier in Chinese custody': Live updates
  • The Indian army says none of its soldiers is missing following the "violent face-off" with Chinese troops, according to a report by India's NDTV network.
  • Indian and Chinese army officers are reportedly holding talks to end the deadly standoff in the Himalayan region of Ladakh.
  • India is holding funerals for the 20 soldiers killed in the brawl with Chinese troops on Monday, the deadliest in decades.
  • The border tension with China has become Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi's most serious foreign policy challenge since he took power in 2014.
Here are the latest updates:

12:02 GMT - India tells state firms 'not to use China telecoms gear'
India has told two state-run telecoms firms to use locally-made rather than Chinese telecom equipment to upgrade their mobile networks to 4G, a senior government source has told the Reuters news agency.
The instruction is aimed at Chinese telecom gear makers Huawei and ZTE, the source said, after India last year announced an almost $8bn plan, some of which was earmarked for network upgrades, to help loss-making operators Bharat Sanchar Nigam (BSNL) and Mahanagar Telephone Nigam (MTNL).
"Since that plan will be funded by public money they (BSNL, MTNL) should try to ensure they buy made in India equipment," the government source, who declined to be named as the order was not public, told Reuters.

11:37 GMT - All troops on border duty carry arms: India minister
Responding to questions tweeted by a prominent opposition leader, India's Foreign Minister Subrahmanyam Jaishankar has said all the soldiers posted in border areas carry firearms.
"Let us get the facts straight. All troops on border duty always carry arms, especially when leaving post. Those at Galwan on 15 June did so. Long-standing practice (as per 1996 & 2005 agreements) not to use firearms during faceoffs," Jaishankar posted on Twitter in response to Rahul Gandhi's tweet.
"How dare China kill our UNARMED soldiers? Why were our soldiers sent UNARMED to martyrdom?" Gandhi had posted on Twitter earlier on Thursday.
Let us get the facts straight.

All troops on border duty always carry arms, especially when leaving post. Those at Galwan on 15 June did so. Long-standing practice (as per 1996 & 2005 agreements) not to use firearms during faceoffs.
— Dr. S. Jaishankar (@DrSJaishankar) June 18, 2020
11:11 GMT - Indian army says 'no soldier in Chinese custody'
The Indian army has said none of its soldiers is missing following the "violent face-off" with Chinese troops on Monday night, India's NDTV network has reported.
Twenty Indian soldiers were killed and four others critically wounded in the hand-to-hand combat in a disputed frontier area in Indian-administered Ladakh region. China has not yet disclosed if it suffered any casualties.
"It is clarified that there are no Indian troops missing in action: Indian Army sources," said a tweet by the local ANI news agency.

10:49 GMT - Indians burn photos of Chinese President Xi Jinping
Indians have burned photographs of Chinese President Xi Jinping as anger grew over the brutal hand-to-hand fighting with Chinese troops in the disputed mountainous border region.
Residents in the northern city of Kanpur held a mock funeral of Xi and burned his portrait, shouting anti-China slogans. In the eastern Indian city of Cuttack, an effigy of Xi and a Chinese flag were burned.
China's Oppo cancelled the live online launch of its flagship smartphone as calls for boycott of Chinese products gained traction across India.
Indians burn photographs of Chinese President Xi Jinping during a protest against the Chinese government in Lucknow , India , Wednesday, June 17, 2020. As some commentators clamored for revenge, India

Indians burn photographs of Chinese President Xi Jinping during a protest against China in Lucknow [Rajesh Kumar Singh/AP Photo]

10:28 GMT - Project Force: What is behind China's naval ambitions?
The Chinese navy, or the People's Liberation Army Navy (PLA Navy), now has two fully-functioning aircraft carriers, the Soviet-era Liaoning and the new, domestically-built Shandong.
While seriously enhancing China's ability to project combat power beyond its own coastline, they are also being used to train cadres of naval officers and pilots in the complex business of efficiently running aircraft carrier groups.
Rapidly developing this body of expertise is no easy feat but President Xi Jinping has big plans.
Read more here.

10:09 GMT - China says it agreed to 'cooling down' at border
China says it has agreed to a "cooling down" of tensions along its border with India following a fatal clash there earlier this week.
"The two sides agreed to deal fairly with the serious events caused by the conflict in the Galwan Valley," said Zhao Lijian, a spokesperson for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs at a news conference.
He said that the two nations would "abide by the consensus reached at the meeting of the military commanders of the two countries" and "maintain peace and tranquility in the border areas".

09:45 GMT - Global Times column invokes China's Bollywood ties
Responding to a call across India to boycott Chinese products, a columnist in pro-Beijing Global Times says such moves are "irrational" and may have "unpredictable consequences" for China-India relations.
Columnist Ai Pang wrote that relations between the two Asian powers have been "growing closer and closer through hit Bollywood films" released in China.
"It's hard to believe that these hateful comments and opinions from some Indian netizens on social media platforms like Twitter are coming from the country shown in movies such as Dangal [Wrestling Competition], Secret Superstar and Hindi Medium, which depicts the people of the country as honest, friendly and modest," Ai said.
It's hard to believe that hateful calls to 'boycott #China' on Twitter are coming from the same #India shown in movies such as #Dangal, #SecretSuperstar and #HindiMedium, which depicts the people of the country as honest, friendly and modest. China-India border clash should not be allowed to impact cultural exchanges - Global Times
— Global Times (@globaltimesnews) June 18, 2020
09:01 GMT - Families of fallen Indian soldiers demand justice
The Indian army has begun handing over the bodies of the soldiers killed by Chinese troops in the disputed Galwan Valleyin - the worst clash in over half a century between the nuclear-armed neighbours.
Indian soldiers who survived the clash said the Chinese used bamboo sticks studded with nails during the confrontation in sub-zero temperatures in the high altitude terrain, while the Indians used stones and sticks.
Under an agreement forged in the 1990s, the two armies carry but do not use arms near the border.

India China families

The father and mother of Indian army's Colonel B Santosh Babu, who was killed in border clashes with Chinese troops, sit next to his portrait, in Suryapet in Telangana state [Reuters]
China said its troops were engaged in a "violent physical confrontation" with Indian soldiers, but has given no details on casualties.
Families of the fallen Indian soldiers and other citizens demanded Modi find diplomatic and strategic ways to punish China.
07:45 GMT - India 'deliberately provoked' Ladakh clash: China
China's foreign ministry has accused India of "deliberately provoking and attacking" Chinese troops during Monday's "violent face-off" in the disputed Ladakh region.
"Indian front-line troops broke the consensus and crossed the Line of Actual Control, deliberately provoking and attacking Chinese officers and soldiers, thus triggering fierce physical conflicts and causing casualties," Hua Chunying, ministry spokesperson tweeted.
"India must not misjudge the current situation or underestimate China's firm will to safeguard its territorial sovereignty," she posted.

06:40 GMT - India, China army officers hold talks: Report
Top Indian and Chinese military officers are holding talks in the disputed Galwan Valley to find a resolution to their month-long standoff, India's NDTV network has reported.
The first round of talks held on Wednesday following the killing of 20 Indian soldiers by Chinese troops on Monday had remained inconclusive.
Galwan Valley, which lies along the Line of Actual Control (LAC) between India and China in eastern Indian-administered Ladakh, is claimed by both nations.
The nail-studded rods — captured by Indian soldiers from the Galwan Valley encounter site — with which Chinese soldiers attacked an Indian Army patrol and killed 20 Indian soldiers.

Such barbarism must be condemned. This is thuggery, not soldiering
— Ajai Shukla (@ajaishukla) June 18, 2020
06:29 GMT - India prepares to hold funerals for soldiers killed in border clash
Families across India are preparing to hold funerals for some of the 20 soldiers killed in hand-to-hand fighting with Chinese troops in the disputed mountainous border region.
Dozens of people lined the street in the southern town of Suryapet as the body of army Colonel B Santosh Babu was brought home, wrapped in the Indian flag.
Funerals will be held for other soldiers in their hometowns and villages, including several in the eastern state of Bihar.

India funeral

A truck carrying the coffin of Indian army officer Colonel B Santosh Babu arrives in Suryapet, about 140km from Hyderabad [Mahesh Kumar A/AP]
06:01 GMT - India to share UNSC table with China
The UN General Assembly has elected India, Mexico, Norway and Ireland as the four non-permanent members of the Security Council for 2021 and 2022.
The result means India will now have a seat at the same table as China, just days after the two nations traded blame for a brawl along the disputed Himalayan border that left at least 20 Indian soldiers dead.
India - which has been trying unsuccessfully to win a permanent seat in an expanded Security Council - ran unopposed to win 184 votes out of the 192 countries that participated in the election.


passin' thru
Ok but which Sukhoi? They make several models, and those models are suitable for different purposes. The Su-27 and the Su-34 are very different aircraft.
hmm...21 MiG-29s and 12 Sukhoi 30s "mki fighters"...?

Replying to
These were already on cards not linked to current standoff see the below story

Indian Air Force plans to buy 33 MiG-29, Sukhoi 30 fighter jets
A proposal in this regard by the IAF is likely to be taken up before a high-level meeting of the Defence Ministry in the next few weeks, government sources told ANI.
Last Updated: Aug 30, 2019, 09.53 AM IST
IAF plans to buy 33 MiG-29, Sukhoi 30 fighter jets
A file image of a Sukhoi 30 MKI.
NEW DELHI: In a move likely to boost its dwindling fighter squadron strength, the Indian Air Force (IAF) is pushing a proposal for acquiring 33 new combat aircraft including 21 MiG-29s and 12 Sukhoi 30s.

A proposal in this regard by the IAF is likely to be taken up before a high-level meeting of the Defence Ministry in the next few weeks, government sources told ANI.

The 12 Su-30 MKIs are being planned to be inducted for replacing the number of aircraft lost by the Air Force in different accidents, they said.

The 12 additional Sukhois will help the Indian Air Force to maintain its fleet of 272 Su-30MKI fighters.

India had placed orders for 272 Su-30 fighter jets over a period of 10-15 years in different batches and senior officers feel that the number of planes acquired so far would be enough for the service's heavy-weight aircraft requirement.

The 21 MiG 29s that the Indian Air Force is planning to acquire are from Russia which has offered to sell these planes to help the Air Force to meet its requirement of new fighters.

"As per plans, the MiG-29s on offer would be of the latest upgraded MiG-29s which are already in service with the IAF. The radars and other equipment on the planes would also be of the latest standards," the sources said.

The negotiations for the MiG-29s are at an advanced stage and the IAF is hoping to finalise the deal at the earliest possible, they said.

The Indian Air Force had carried out a study to check if the airframes of the MiG-29s on offer were good enough for it to operate for a long time.

MiG-29s are flown by the Air Force and the pilots are familiar with it but the ones offered by the Russians are different from the ones in the Indian inventory.

The Indian Navy also operates the MiG-29 'K' and is the only operator of this version of the plane and is having a rough experience with the planes which are difficult to maintain and their settings change immediately after they land on the aircraft carrier.

The Air Force has three squadrons of the MiG-29s which have been undergoing upgrades for extended life and are considered to be very good planes in the air defence roles.


passin' thru
aytuks News



Indian Air Force heavy transporter IL-76 seen over Kashmir headed probably to Pulwama AB. Per OSINT, Indian Army is air-lifting troops from northern states to Kashmir AB and then ferrying them to Ladakh by road. Heavy mobilisation of men/machinery to Ladakh is on. (

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
While we're headed into the height of Campaign Season in Jumar & Kashmir, and typically the Line of Control tends to be a tad bit fluid this time of year, the engagements are at least an order of magnitude above normal years. C-19 is providing the Mandarins with more International Fallout than one might have expected. The international pressures must be getting extreme for the Mandarins to push India so directly and so HARD to keep OUT of the International Investigation on C-19.


Senior Member

Calls to boycott Chinese companies and products in India after deadly border clash

NEW DELHI - The deadly confrontation between Indian and Chinese soldiers along the Line of Actual Control (LAC) on Monday (June 15) has led to growing calls for a boycott of Chinese products in India.

The calls have intensified as India and China launched a fresh round of military talks on Thursday (June 18) to defuse tensions after violent clashes in Galwan Valley on Monday resulted in the death of 20 Indian soldiers.

External Affairs Minister S Jaishankar revealed that Indian soldiers were armed but followed protocol and did not use firearms in the Galwan Valley.

In the aftermath of the deadly clash on Wednesday, Chinese smartphone brand Oppo cancelled the livestream launch of its flagship 5G smartphone in India and uploaded a pre-recorded video on YouTube announcing the launch instead.

The Economic Times, an Indian financial daily, reported on Thursday that the country's state-run telecom companies may stop sourcing equipment from Chinese companies. Private mobile network operators could also be prohibited from using gear supplied by Chinese firms such as Huawei, the report said.

Videos of people destroying China-made products have been widely circulated, including videos showing people throwing a television set off a multi-storey building, defacing heaps of Chinese-made products and some even calling for a boycott of Chinese food.

On Thursday, federal minister for food and consumer affairs Ram Vilas Paswanwas joined the chorus.

"I want to appeal to everyone that (because of) the way China is behaving, we boycott all Chinese products," Mr Paswan told Indian reporters.

Many argue these boycott calls will be difficult to see through in a country that depends significantly on Chinese imports.

For instance, a limited sale from Chinese smartphone manufacturer OnePlus saw the latest model of its phone, which competes with Apple iPhones, being sold out in minutes on Thursday.

China is India's largest trading partner with trade reaching $92.68 billion (S$132 billion) in 2019.

Related Story
Indians hold funerals for soldiers killed at China border, burn portraits of Chinese President Xi

Related Story
Indian families demand justice as they await bodies of soldiers killed in clash with China

"A boycott is completely impractical because of how dependent we are on China," said Prof Biswajit Dhar of the Jawaharlal Nehru University.

"This (boycott China call) is not happening for the first time and will not be the last."

Chinese firms also have a deep presence within India and have invested in many top Indian firms, such as digital payments firm Paytm and e-commerce website Flipkart.

The Confederation of All India Traders, which claims to represent nearly 70 million traders, also launched a 'boycott China' campaign, releasing a list of more than 500 product categories, including kitchenware and electronic goods.

Such calls by the group have had little impact in the past.

Related Story
India and China blame each other for clash

Related Story
India and China relations can't go back to old normal after border clashes: Analysts

"In the first phase, we have targeted more than 3,000 products," said its national secretary general Praveen Khandelwal, claiming it could inflict a loss of US$ 13 billion (S$ 18.1 billion) on China by the end of 2021, following a fall in demand for its products.

He added that subsequent phases of the campaign could target raw materials, spare parts and technology-driven products.


On TB every waking moment
Posted for fair use..... See source for images.

India-China dispute
Satellite images suggest Chinese activity at India's Himalayan border before clash
By Simon Scarr, Sanjeev Miglani and Gurman Bhatia
Published June 18, 2020
In the days leading up to the most violent border clash between India and China in decades, China brought in pieces of machinery, cut a trail into a Himalayan mountainside and may have even dammed a river, satellite pictures suggest.
The fighting was triggered by a row over two Chinese tents and observation towers that India said had been built on its side of the Line of Actual Control (LAC), Indian government sources in New Delhi and on the Indian side of the border in the Ladakh region said.

Possible debris
Indian vehicles
and equipment
Line of Actual Control
Crosses this bend in the river
Source: Planet Labs
The clash was the most serious since 1967. Since early May, soldiers have faced off on the border where India says Chinese troops had intruded and set up temporary structures. The confrontation turned into a deadly brawl on Monday.
China had sought to erect a “structure” in the Galwan Valley on India’s side of the LAC even after military officials had reached an agreement on June 6 to de-escalate, Indian Foreign Minister Subrahmanyam Jaishankar told China’s senior diplomat, Wang Yi, in a phone call on Wednesday, the Indian Foreign Ministry said. It was not immediately clear to what structure he was referring.
The problem arose when an Indian patrol visited the area near a ridge to verify a Chinese assertion that its troops had moved back from the LAC, the two government sources aware of the military situation said.
The Chinese troops had thinned out and left behind the two tents and small observation posts. The Indian party demolished the towers and burnt the tents, the sources said.
The satellite image (above) shows possible debris from the observation posts on Tuesday morning on a ridge on India’s side of the LAC. There was no such structure in the image taken a week earlier.
But the Indian response prompted a backlash. A large group of Chinese soldiers arrived and confronted the Indian troops, led by Colonel Santosh Babu. They were lightly armed in line with the rules of engagement at the LAC, one of the sources said.

The path to confrontation
The images, shot on Tuesday, a day after soldiers engaged in hand-to-hand combat in the freezing Galwan Valley, show an increase in activity from a week earlier.

June 9, 2020
Six days before the battle
June 16, 2020
Day after the battle
No visible activity
Possible debris
No activity
No visible water
Machinery possibly
disrupting water flow
No activity
Flowing water
Route appears
Access trail
and trucks
No activity
Route appears to
be less accessible
New crossing
with water
flowing under
Signs of
To Chinese
Source: Planet Labs
The satellite pictures, taken by Earth-imaging company Planet Labs and obtained by Reuters, show signs of altering the landscape of the valley through widening tracks, moving earth and making river crossings, one expert said.
The images shows machinery along the bald mountains and in the Galwan River.
“Looking at it in Planet, it looks like China is constructing roads in the valley and possibly damming the river,” Jeffrey Lewis, director of the East Asia Nonproliferation Program at California’s Middlebury Institute of International Studies.
“There are a ton of vehicles on both sides (of the LAC) - although there appear to be vastly more on the Chinese side. I count 30-40 Indian vehicles and well over 100 vehicles on the Chinese side.”
Reuters counted and marked all of the structures, vehicles and equipment that were visible in the image from June 16.

Assets in the Galwan Valley
June 16, 2020. The day after the battle
Dots mark visible
structures or vehicles
Area shown in
earlier map
Line of Actual
Convoy of
more than
100 vehicles
The crop below shows the build-up of trucks along the banks of the river further away from the LAC. However, it also looks like some tents have been removed since the June 9 image.

June 9
June 16
Source: Planet Labs
Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian said he was unaware of the specifics on the ground but reiterated that the Indian army had crossed into China’s territory in several places in recent days and that they should withdraw.
The 4,056-km (2,520-mile) border between India and China runs through glaciers, snow deserts and rivers in the west to thickly forested mountains in the east.
The Galwan Valley is an arid, inhospitable area, where some soldiers are deployed on steep ridges. It is considered important because it leads to the Aksai Chin, a disputed plateau claimed by India but controlled by China.

Line of Actual
Aksai Chin
Jammu and
50 km
India and China have not exchanged gunfire at the border since 1967, despite occasional flare-ups. Soldiers are under instructions to keep their rifles slung at their backs.
It was not clear what happened after the Chinese soldiers arrived , but the two sides soon clashed, with the Chinese using iron rods and batons with spikes, one of the sources said.
Colonel Babu was one of the 20 victims, they said. More Indian troops were rushed in and the confrontation turned into an hours-long brawl eventually involving up to 900 soldiers, the source said. Still no shots were fired on either side.
Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao rejected the Indian version of the events. “The rights and wrongs of this incident are very clear. The responsibility does not lie with China.”
Planet Labs
By Simon Scarr, Sanjeev Miglani, Gurman Bhatia.
Additional work by Anand Katakam and Prasanta Kumar Dutta.
Additional reporting by Gabriel Crossley in Beijing, Fayaz Bukhari in Srinagar and Devjyot Ghoshal in New Delhi.
Editing By Nick Macfie.


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Posted for fair use.....

Galwan Valley: Image appears to show nail-studded rods used in India-China brawl

BBCJune 18, 2020, 7:32 AM PDT

Scroll back up to restore default view.
An image has emerged showing a crude weapon purportedly used by Chinese forces in the fatal brawl along China's disputed border with India on Monday.
The fight in the Galwan Valley left at least 20 Indian soldiers dead and raised tensions between the two powers.
China did not acknowledge any casualties among its forces. Both sides accused the other of an incursion.
The border between the two nations in the region is poorly demarcated and can shift with topographical changes.
The image that emerged on Thursday showed crude weapons that appeared to be made from iron rods studded with nails. It was passed to the BBC by a senior Indian military official on the India-China border, who said the weapons had been used by the Chinese.
An image passed to the BBC by an Indian military official shows crude weapons purportedly used in the fight

An image passed to the BBC by an Indian military official shows crude weapons purportedly used in the fight
Defence analyst Ajai Shukla, who first tweeted the image, described the use of such weapons as "barbarism". The absence of firearms in the clash dates back to a 1996 agreement between the two sides that guns and explosives be prohibited along the disputed stretch of the border, to deter escalation.
The image was widely shared on Twitter in India, prompting outrage from many social media users. Neither Chinese or Indian officials commented on it.
Media reports said troops clashed on ridges at a height of nearly 4,267m (14,000 ft) along a steep terrain, with some soldiers falling into the fast-flowing Galwan river in sub-zero temperatures.
Related Video: Is China Bolder After COVID-19?

First deaths in four decades
The two sides have brawled along the disputed border in recent weeks, but Monday's clash was the first to lead to fatalities in at least 45 years. Unconfirmed reports in Indian media said at least 40 Chinese soldiers died, but China is yet to issue any information about casualties.
Indian officials said all of their soldiers involved in the clash have been accounted for, following reports some were missing.
Chinese foreign ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian said India had crossed the border twice, "provoking and attacking Chinese personnel, resulting in serious physical confrontation between border forces on the two sides", the AFP news agency reported.
China on Wednesday claimed "sovereignty over the Galwan Valley region" - a claim rebutted by India as "exaggerated and untenable".
Indian army trucks move along a highway leading to Ladakh on Wednesday

Indian army trucks move along a highway leading to Ladakh on Wednesday
Members of the public in both nations have since staged protests over the clashes in the disputed Himalayan border area, while officials have spoken cautiously and moved towards a diplomatic resolution.
Indian foreign ministry spokesperson Anurag Srivastava said the foreign ministers of both countries had shared a phone conversation on Wednesday on the developments and "agreed that the overall situation should be handled in a responsible manner".
"Making exaggerated and untenable claims is contrary to this understanding," Mr Srivastava was quoted as saying by Press Trust of India news agency.
An Indian government statement after Subrahmanyam Jaishankar's conversation with China's Wang Yi said Chinese forces tried to erect a structure on the Indian side of the de facto border, the Line of Actual Control (LAC).
The statement accused the Chinese of a "premeditated and planned action that was directly responsible for the resulting violence and casualties" and urged China to "take corrective steps".
Meanwhile, a Chinese statement quoted Mr Wang as saying: "China again expresses strong protest to India and demands the Indian side launches a thorough investigation... and stop all provocative actions to ensure the same things do not happen again."
Kashmir map

Kashmir mapWhy were there no guns?
The Galwan river valley in Ladakh, with its harsh climate and high-altitude terrain, lies along the western sector of the LAC and close to Aksai Chin, a disputed area claimed by India but controlled by China.
This is not the first time the two nuclear-armed neighbours have fought without conventional firearms on the border. India and China have a history of face-offs and overlapping territorial claims along the more than 3,440km (2,100 mile), poorly drawn LAC separating the two sides.
The last firing on the border happened in 1975 when four Indian soldiers were killed in a remote pass in the north-eastern state of Arunachal Pradesh. The clash was variously described by former diplomats as an ambush and an accident. But no bullets have been fired since.
At the root of this is a 1996 bilateral agreement that says "neither side shall open fire... conduct blast operations or hunt with guns or explosives within two kilometres of the Line of Actual Control".
But there have been other tense confrontations along the border in recent weeks. In May Indian and Chinese soldiers exchanged physical blows on the border at Pangong Lake, also in Ladakh, and in the north-eastern Indian state of Sikkim hundreds of miles to the east.
India has accused China of sending thousands of troops into Ladakh's Galwan Valley and says China occupies 38,000 sq km (14,700 sq miles) of its territory. Several rounds of talks in the last three decades have failed to resolve the boundary disputes.


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From yesterday....

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Blood Spilled on the China-India Border

With dozens dead in the latest clash, Sino-Indian tensions at their highest point in decades.

Sudha Ramachandran

By Sudha Ramachandran

June 17, 2020

Tensions between India and China along the Line of Actual Control (LAC) escalated seriously on Monday night when an Indian army officer and 19 soldiers were killed in “a violent face-off” involving hand-to-hand combat at Galwan Valley in Ladakh. The death toll is expected to rise as dozens of other soldiers are battling for their lives.

According to an Indian Army statement, both sides have suffered casualties. The Chinese government has not released figures of its dead and injured soldiers yet. Citing “Indian intercepts,” ANI news agency reported that an estimated 43 Chinese soldiers were killed or injured in the confrontation.

In a development of serious concern to India, the Chinese government on Tuesday claimed Galwan Valley as Chinese territory. China has “always” held sovereignty over the area, it said, blaming India for the face-off. India’s Ministry of External Affairs has accused Beijing of trying to unilaterally change the status quo in the area.

While no firearms were used in the fighting on Monday night, the combat was reportedly “savage.” Chinese “assault teams armed with iron rods as well as batons wrapped in barbed wire hunted down and slaughtered [Indian] troops,” Indian sources said. The conditions in the region are also precarious and brutal.

The face-off on Monday night should set alarm bells ringing in New Delhi and Beijing. It is the deadliest between India and China since they skirmished at Nathu La in 1967. It is also the first time since 1975 that soldiers have lost their lives in clashes along the LAC.

The face-off came amid ongoing talks between Indian and Chinese military officials to defuse tensions along their disputed border. Only a few days ago, bilateral tensions seemed to be easing somewhat. The “entire situation” along the LAC “is under control,” Indian Army Chief General Manoj Mukund Naravane said on June 13 after a series of meetings between local-level commanders and corps commanders of the two sides.

That the violent bloodletting happened even as the two sides were claiming that “action” was being taken to “ameliorate the border situation” and that they had begun a “partial disengagement” of troops from some of the standoff points along the LAC in eastern Ladakh indicates how fragile the situation is on the ground.

It reaffirms what a section of Indian security analysts, critical of the Indian government’s mishandling of the crisis at the LAC in Ladakh since early May, have been saying over the past month: There is much to worry about over the situation along India’s northern front.

The entire India-China border is disputed and the LAC is the de facto border between Indian- and Chinese-controlled territory. In the Indian perception the LAC is 3,488 kilometers long, while the Chinese maintain that its length is only 2,000 km. In addition to differences over the length of the LAC or where it runs, India and China also lay claim to sizable chunks of territory under the other’s control.

In the western sector, India claims 38,000 square kilometers of territory in Aksai Chin in the northeastern corner of what was part of the erstwhile state of Jammu and Kashmir, known today as the Union Territory of Ladakh. This is territory that China occupied during the 1962 Sino-Indian war and which remains under Chinese control. India also claims another 5,180 sq km of land in Kashmir that Pakistan ceded to China in 1963.

In the eastern sector, Beijing claims around 90,000 sq km of territory, which roughly approximates the Indian state of Arunachal Pradesh or what Beijing refers to as “Southern Tibet.” During the 1962 war, China advanced into this territory but retreated subsequently. The middle sector of the LAC is the least contentious of the three sectors.

The current crisis erupted to the fore on May 5, when Indian and Chinese troops clashed at Pangong Tso, a lake that straddles the LAC in Ladakh. People’s Liberation Army (PLA) soldiers reportedly prevented Indian troops from patrolling areas between Finger 4 (the Chinese claim line) and Finger 8 (the Indian claim line). This is territory that both sides had been patrolling until the May 5 clashes, a senior officer of the Indian Army’s Northern Command told The Diplomat.

In the weeks since, the two sides have clashed there and at other points in Ladakh as well as at Naku La in Sikkim in the eastern sector. Not only did Chinese intrusions grow in depth and frequency over the past month, but also the PLA dug in by erecting tents and building bunkers as well as deploying more troops and heavy vehicles in areas it occupied, the Indian Army officer said.

At a meeting in the Chushul-Moldo region between Indian and Chinese military commanders on June 6, the two sides agreed to “peacefully resolve the situation in the border areas in accordance with various bilateral agreements.” Partial disengagement of troops and talk between military officials at various levels followed.

However, as the Monday night face-off indicates, the situation along the LAC is volatile and worrying.

According to Ajai Shukla, a defense analyst and retired colonel of the Indian Army, Chinese troops continue to occupy the area between Fingers 4 and 8 in the Pangong Tso sector of the LAC as well as “the area up to PP [Patrolling Point] 15 and PP 17 and the heights overlooking the Galwan Valley.” Indeed, Chinese soldiers are reported “to have entered the Depsang area, which lies to the north of Galwan, in the Daulat Beg Oldi sector.”

There were serious clashes between India and China at Depsang in 2013.

Tensions along the LAC erupt from time to time. Because of the different perceptions of where the LAC runs, patrolling teams of the two sides run into each other on occasion. These run-ins trigger face-offs, prompting each side to accuse the other of transgressions.

However, this time around, the problem is not just one of “transgressions” or confusion over the LAC. What happened in Pangong Tso or the Galwan Valley were not incidents of patrolling teams bumping into each other but the outcome of China working to redraw the LAC unilaterally.

China’s moves in the Galwan Valley lay bare this strategy. In late April, China began building up troops along the LAC and then sent them across into the Indian side.
The LAC at the Galwan Valley is clearly defined and accepted by both sides, Shukla points out. Still China sent in its soldiers 3-4 km across the LAC, thus violating “its own claim line here and occupied territory that Beijing has traditionally acknowledged to be Indian.” It triggered conflict in an area that was tension-free since 1962.

Then on Tuesday, the Chinese government took this to the next level by claiming sovereignty over the Galwan Valley in its entirety.

Unlike in the past, when small teams were involved in the clashes with Indian soldiers, this time the PLA has “sent in thousands of soldiers” across the LAC. China’s tents, bunkers, and other infrastructure in the “territory it is occupying” on the Indian side of the LAC indicates that “they are here to stay,” the Indian Army officer said. They have moved armored vehicles near the Galwan Valley and “seem to be digging in for a longer confrontation.”

While China’s territorial ambitions and use of aggression to unilaterally alter the LAC are to blame for the escalating crisis between India and China, the Indian government cannot absolve itself of responsibility for the disadvantageous situation it is in today.
Intelligence input in late April of the Chinese buildup in Ladakh should have prompted New Delhi to beef up its own military muscle in the area. It did not. Indeed, even after the May 5 clashes the Indian government downplayed the magnitude of the Chinese aggression. In fact, Army Chief Naravane described the incidents in Ladakh as “temporary and short duration face-offs.”

So why was New Delhi downplaying the looming crisis along the LAC all these weeks?

Prime Minister Narendra Modi and the ruling Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) have long been strong advocates of chest-thumping nationalism and of adopting a muscular approach in dealing with India’s neighbors. Having claimed to be the strongest guardians of India’s national security and territorial sovereignty, they were caught in a difficult situation.

They were “caught napping” at the border. Hence their “obfuscation on unfolding events at the LAC,” the Indian Army officer said.

Preoccupied with finding ways to save face vis-à-vis the Indian public, the BJP government sought to deflect uncomfortable questions over its mishandling of the border crisis by stressing its commitment to “national pride.”

The death of 20 Indian soldiers in the confrontation with Chinese troops on Monday night brings the Modi government’s response into sharper question.

Ending his long silence on the border issue, Modi warned China on Wednesday that India was “capable of giving a fitting reply, when provoked.” He has called for an all-party meeting on Friday to discuss the border situation.

How his government will respond to the Chinese occupation of Indian territory remains to be seen. Its mishandling of the border issue with China could culminate in India losing control over territory to China.

According to Lt. Gen. Panag, who was General Officer Commanding-in-Chief of the Northern Command between 2007 and 2008, the Chinese have occupied an area of 35-40 square km in recent weeks. By denying the loss of territory to the Chinese, the Modi government seems to have played into Chinese hands by endorsing the Chinese position.

Even more dangerous is the government’s explaining away of the border tensions. “Face-offs between border guarding troops do occur along the LAC due to the differing perceptions of the alignment of boundaries,” Naravane said in late May.

Such explanations could “open Pandora’s box,” writes Panag. It could encourage China to use a similar strategy to take control of other territory that is currently under Indian control. It could “result in loss of more territory, possibly at Chumar, Demchok, Fukche, Kailash Range, Hot Springs, along the Shyok River and in Depsang Plains.” Success in the western sector could tempt China to implement a similar strategy at Tawang in the eastern sector of the LAC.

Indian officials have said that their aim in the current talks is to get the Chinese to restore the status quo ante, as of April. Will they be able to convince the Chinese to do so? There is little reason for Beijing to heed India’s requests. After all, it is in an advantageous position on the ground along the LAC. The alteration of the LAC appears to be a fait accompli.

At best, India can expect the Chinese to pull back a bit but only after they have wrung out major concessions from New Delhi.

Dr. Sudha Ramachandran is an independent journalist/researcher based in Bangalore, India. She writes on South Asian political and security issues.


Senior Member
Same crap from China. Same thing they are doing in the South China Sea. Grab the land and dare anyone to make them leave.


Veteran Member
Xi is pushing.

Immediately after the attack the Chinese foreign service instead of soft political talk came out swinging throwing even more threats at India. When I saw the video my jaw dropped, it’s as if Chinese CCP and party apparatus was so caught up in their new China nationalistic China first they forgot they were talking to the world.

Of course outside and particularly in India this went over like a lead balloon. India is pissed, the people are furious and this does not look like a 2 day everything back to normal pissed but this will impact Chinese trade into India in rails in tech and will cost Chinese jobs.

Now follow-up with cyber attacks, China is doubling down.

Since China appears to have dropped any pretense of salvaging economic trade relations anywhere, you kind of have to wonder if they have dropped advancing on trade and economic development what is the likely replacement.

Maybe the reference on China moving to a war footing was not a reference to Corona second wave but something more direct and worthy of our attention.

The Mountain

Here since the beginning
Per various Indian news channels, India has received information from US Intelligence that China lost 35 soldiers including their commander in that melee in Galwan.


On TB every waking moment
Considering that India now has to look at everything happening on the Pakistani LoC as being likely coordinated with Beijing's actions on the LAC, this could escalate like a Saturn V.

There was already a report that India had moved BrahMos land attack cruise missiles into the area, which would also cover the Pakistani front line areas. I'm guessing at this point both sides have moved MLRS and tube artillery systems into the theater.

The other countries Beijing has been bullying haven't been in a position to slag the Chinese coastal metroplex. India actually is in such a postion and with Pakistan acting, or being seen to be acting, in concert with the PRC, that isn't as far out of a possibility as it might have been a week ago.


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Ladakh Clash Was Long in the Making But India, China Now Need an Honourable Exit

Prime Minister Modi defied history and facts to woo President Xi with swing-rides and photoshoots, forgetting that settling the border issue is not merely a factor of personal equations between leaders.

K.C. Singh
5 hours ago

The ongoing India-China standoff, mostly at the Line of Actual Control in Ladakh, causing the death of the commanding officer of 16 Bihar Regiment and 19 of his soldiers should not come as a surprise. Over the years, intruding to improve tactical ground positions or infrastructure has been an annual Chinese summer pastime. Sometimes, matters got more serious – like at Doklam in 2017.

After decisively winning a second term last year, Prime Minister Narendra Modi began forcefully implementing the BJP’s old agenda for reshaping India. In August, a constitutional amendment did away with Article 370 and split Jammu and Kashmir into two downgraded Union Territories. China protested strongly that this change in the status quo impacted its strategic interests, which India rejected as posturing.

South Block reasoned that over the past half century, China and Pakistan have made multiple changes in Gilgit Baltistan without consulting India. Pakistan ceded the Shaksgam valley, adjoining the Siachen glacier, to China in 1963. Fifty years later, China announced the China Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) through this sensitive region as part of China’s new Belt and Road Initiative (BRI).

Just as the US agreed in 1972 to normalise relations with China while putting aside the Taiwan issue, Rajiv Gandhi and reformist Chinese leader Deng Xiaoping shook hands in 1988, relegating the tricky boundary issue to later settlement. BJP general secretary Ram Madhav dismisses that meeting and the border management accords of 1993, 1996 and 2013 as “homilies about peace, diplomacy and dialogue”, leaving the crucial boundary issue unsettled. He obviously omits mention of the Atal Bihari Vajpayee government, with China-expert Brajesh Misra as principal adviser, having followed the same path.

Finger-pointing aside, all Indian governments, as indeed leaders of the US and western nations, have been foxed by China’s endgame. By letting China join the World Trade Organisation in 2001, the US was still endorsing the Henry Kissinger-Richard Nixon thesis that bringing China into the global regimes of trade and investment would stabilise the global order. Much store was laid by Deng Xiaoping’s “24-character” injunction to his successors to “hide our capacities and bide our time”. Ignored was what would happen if China acquired massive economic and military power and also a leader who felt China’s time had come.

With India, the endgame has been clear since 1963, when the China-Pakistan strategic convergence began with Pakistan ceding the Shaksgam valley to China. The policy to box India in South Asia had commenced. China could not help Pakistan in 1971 as it was enmeshed in the devastating Cultural Revolution, but thereafter began clandestine transfers of nuclear weapons and missile technology.

Therefore, Chinese conduct must be viewed from two perspectives: its desire to restore the greatness of China that western powers destroyed and which India may challenge if not rival; and the socio-economic pact of growth and prosperity between the Chinese Communist Party and its people.

Three significant agreements to maintain peace and tranquillity at LAC were signed in 1993, 1996 and 2013. Another crucial agreement was signed on April 11, 2005 on the “Political Parameters and Guiding Principles for the Settlement of the India-China Boundary Question”. This was penned as India was negotiating a civil nuclear deal with US, eventually signed on July 18, 2005. Clearly, China was positioning a possible border settlement against India moving closer to the US. Thus, for China the border issue is an implement to condition Indian strategic behaviour. Concomitantly, its own economic compulsions can modify its outreach to India. Thus, settling the border issue is not merely a factor of diplomacy or of personal equations between leaders or even less the brilliance of party functionaries.

To take this reasoning further, the 1993 and 1996 agreements came after Chinese economic growth hit a bump after the 1989 Tiananmen Square massacre, which drew western sanctions. From a GDP growth rate of 11.2% in 1988, China slid to 4.2% in 1989 and 3.9% in 1990. Growth spurted in 1993 and 1994 but again declined from 1995. In 1997, the Asian financial crisis created an adverse external environment. Thus, Chinese conduct, perhaps like that of most nations, is modulated by economic and growth conditions.

The ascension of President Xi Jinping and the 2008 global financial crisis amidst which China was a stabiliser led to China abandoning Deng’s injunction to avoid assertive conduct. Chinese bullying thereafter became the norm in the South and East China Seas and across land frontiers. Its benign counterpart is the new Silk Road or BRI, to spread a Sino-centric web of supply and production chains. Coincidentally, the BRI, CPEC etc commenced as Xi Jinping became president in 2013. India’s rejection of that is a snub that Xi would remember.

Historically, two rising powers with a legacy of hurts and disputes have more often than not come to blows. Prime Minister Modi defied history and facts to woo President Xi with shared swing-rides and photoshoots at historical sites. Xi has consolidated more power than any leader since Mao Zedong. Narendra Modi, likewise, has acquired the most power since Indira Gandhi, riding a tsunami of jingoism, propelled by India’s Balakot airstrike, to electoral victory in 2019. Today, Modi is trapped by the persona of a populist-nationalist defender of Bharat mata. That limits his options.

Modi has assured the nation that retribution is inevitable for the killing of Indian soldiers. Xi is trying to deflate Modi’s persona and regional influence. He is also exposing cracks in the emerging strategic convergence between India, the US, Australia and Japan. President Donald Trump and the US have not rushed to side with India, preferring to preach from the sidelines. But Xi is also vulnerable in the post-COVID world with Europe and US blaming China for not alerting the world in time to the danger posed by the coronavirus. The Chinese economy has perforce slowed as it faces decoupling challenges.

An honourable solution requires China quietly restoring the status quo ante, India accepting to not needle it at WHO, where it now holds the chair, or over Taiwan or Hong Kong, besides assuring China that all infrastructure development along the LAC is defensive. China officially conceding that they too lost soldiers in the melee would also obviate the political need for India to seek to restore honour through armed action.


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10 Indian soldiers, including four officers, released by China after talks
The 10 soldiers had been in Chinese captivity since Monday night’s clash at LAC in Ladakh. Military-level talks will continue.

Snehesh Alex Philip and Nayanima Basu 19 June, 2020 10:54 am IST

New Delhi: China Thursday evening returned 10 Indian soldiers, who had been in their custody since Monday’s clash in the Galwan Valley in Ladakh, after a prolonged discussion at the major general level. The 10 soldiers included two majors and two captains.

As many as 20 Indian soldiers, including the Commanding Officer of 16 Bihar Colonel Santosh Babu, were killed in action in Monday’s clash.

The Army had issued a statement Thursday saying “it is clarified that no Indian troops are missing in action”. While it did not mention the release, the statement was a clear indication that the soldiers have returned.

Sources in the defence and security establishment said the main focus of the high-level talks since Tuesday had been the release of the Indian soldiers. The issue was also discussed during the diplomatic parleys going on between the two countries.

Official sources also told ThePrint that it was always the understanding that information about such sensitive matters will not be released unless both sides come to an “amicable solution”, which is the release of the 10 soldiers.

The announcement by the Ministry of External Affairs that no soldiers were missing in action was made only after it was ascertained through diplomatic channels that China would be releasing them, the sources said.

Both sides have held several rounds of talks at diplomatic and military levels to ease tensions and are now looking to soon have a dialogue on the border affairs under the ‘Working Mechanism for Consultation and Coordination on Border Affairs (WMCC)’.

Also read: India, China agree to implement 6 June ‘disengagement understanding’ to ensure peace at LAC

Military-level talks to continue

ThePrint had reported Tuesday that several Indian soldiers taken captive by China were returned following talks at a higher level on the same day.

However, it was learnt Wednesday morning that 10 soldiers are still missing. By afternoon, it was learnt that the 10 unaccounted for were in Chinese custody.

Sources said the Chinese had presented the captive soldiers to the Indian team Wednesday to show they were fine and not tortured.

According to the sources, all 10 soldiers walked back with the Indian team Thursday evening, indicating there were no major injuries.

The sources said the military-level talks will continue Friday as part of the earlier process to ease the tensions.

While there is a heavy build-up by the Chinese on its side of the Galwan Valley, the Finger areas of Pangong continue to be a problem.

The Chinese have come in till Finger 4 and have built structures to block the Indian patrol from moving ahead from that point till Finger 8, which is the LAC for India.

Latest satellite imagery reveals that massive construction has been done by China in this area.


Veteran Member
When considering Chinese military it has to be kept in mind that not only does China have a yyhuge border with India but they also have to maintain a large threat force projection at Taiwan and a large number of their military are used to subjugate and control the very large land masses of Tibet and directly north Kurdistan.

They have a large military that has aggressively modernized but they also have lots of hot spots and very large area’s and borders to defend. In normal times with a stable internal environment it seems childish and rather moronic to antagonize India, Taiwan, Vietnam, and Australia at the same time. What is the purpose of starting and inflaming conflicts on multiple fronts at the same time?

Either China is totally bluffing and all this bullying is trying to project power where the power doesn’t exist, or Xi feels that post Corona chaos they created has made an opportunity to grab land from India and take Taiwan. If the latter he may have misread India’s willingness to defend their positions and the negative economic impact of the Anti Chinese backlash in India.

Xi and the CCP appear to be making one geo-political blunder after another. This weakens Xi internally and forces him to make larger gambles to try to make up the previous losses. This is what makes China the threat to everyone especially the US, and certainly Taiwan.


Per various Indian news channels, India has received information from US Intelligence that China lost 35 soldiers including their commander in that melee in Galwan.
I'm thinking, respiratory capacity at high altitude had much to do with it. On the brighter side: The Indians may be physically superior to the Chinks in hand to hand combat. Personally, I believe the ChiComms are nothing more than idea thieves when compared to the rest of the world and communism works to stifle personal development. Perhaps that's why they are presently studying human genetic engineering. Cyborg.


passin' thru

Ankit Panda


If GoI is preparing to cede the space between Fingers 4-8 at Pangong Tso, it'll try to do so quietly—and maybe that's what we take away from Modi's odd remark. But... there'll always be older maps.
Quote Tweet

Sushant Singh

Every single map with the Army in Ladakh shows the LAC passing through Finger 8 at Pangong Tso. The Chinese are sitting eight kms to the west of it, have made bunkers and posts. So whose territory is it that they are in?

Ankit Panda


I'm not necessarily critical of this decision, since it seems unlikely to me that India has good/credible options to evict PLA from the area if they're determined to dig in. It's deescalatory, but fundamentally changes the status quo in China's favor from where it was pre-05/20.

Ankit Panda



It'd be yet another example of a successful coercive fait accompli for Beijing.

The Mountain

Here since the beginning
The Lion of India, ladies and gentlemen. So if China hasn't crossed the LAC, what need was there for all the deaths? Is Modi now saying that the attack was India's fault?


passin' thru
Moscow assures support to India amidst stand off with China

WION New Delhi, Delhi, India Jun 18, 2020, 03.02 PM(IST) Written By: Sidhant Sibal

File photo of Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Russian President Vladimir Putin. Photograph:( AFP )

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Story highlights
Earlier Russian foreign minister said, 'It has already been announced that the military representatives of India and China have made contact, they are discussing the situation, discussing measures to de-escalate it. We welcome this'

Moscow has assured that it stands by India in thick & thin. Top sources told WION while it supports India, it also backs New Delhi's efforts to resolve issues with China amidst the ongoing stand-off with China.

The development comes even has Moscow has publically reacted on the standoff at multiple levels with Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Igor Morgulov & India's Envoy to Russia Bala Venkatesh Varma discussing the matter.
On Wednesday, reactions came from Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov, the Russian ambassador to India Nikolay R. Kudashev & Russian Deputy Chief of Mission Roman Babushkin on the development hoping for de-escalation.
Watch |

Lavrov said, "It has already been announced that the military representatives of India and China have made contact, they are discussing the situation, discussing measures to de-escalate it. We welcome this".
Envoy Kudashev in a tweet said, "We welcome all steps aimed at de-escalation at the LAC, including the conversation between the two FMs, and remain optimistic."
While Russian DCM told WION, "We hope that the tensions will soon be de-escalated, and the sides would further maintain a constructive dialogue also keeping in mind the potential of cooperation. Russia believes it is vital for the region".
The Russian readout of deputy Russian foreign minister's talks with Indian envoy to Russia said, "the officials discussed regional security, including developments on the Line of Actual Control on the border between India and China in the Himalayas".

India and Russia have close ties and engage frequently including at the highest level. Both Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Russian President Vladimir Putin have spoken to each other many times this year including on COVID-19 crisis.
Later next week, the RIC Russia-India-China foreign minister meet via video conference will take place.
Russian foreign ministry spokesperson Zakharova announced that "On June 23, foreign ministers of Russia, India & China are scheduled to meet via videoconference as part of Russia’s RIC chairmanship. They will exchange views on trends in global politics, the economy, and other areas following the COVID19 pandemic."
Russian envoy called the "existence" of the grouping an "undisputable reality" which is "firmly fixed on the world map". Commenting on "current stage of of the trilateral cooperation" he said, "there are no indications that it might be frozen" over current India-China stand-off.

Later this year as the chair of SCO and BRICS, Russia will host the summits of both the groupings.
Meanwhile, Pakistan's Foreign Minister SM Qureshi also spoke to his Russian counterpart and the Russian foreign ministry readout of the talks showed that Russia did not support Pak priorities as Islamabad had been claiming during the telephone call.
India will send 75 members strong Tri-Service contingent to participate in the 75th Victory Day Parade of World War II in Moscow.
Victory Day Parade is scheduled to be held on June 24, 2020, in Moscow and the Russian Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu had invited Indian contingent to take part.
According to the official press-release of the Russian Ministry of Defense, the mechanized column participating in the parade will consist of more than 200 vehicles with more than 20 types of military hardware showcased at the parade for the first time.
Among the new armoured vehicles will be T-90M main battle tank, Armata infantry fighting vehicle with new combat module Kinzhal, Kurganets-25 infantry fighting vehicle with Epoha combat module.

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videos at source