EBOLA Ebola confirmed in NYC
- Thread starter JohnGaltfla
- Start date
JohnGaltfla
#NeverTrump
Funny thing is the CDC said this wouldn't happen. That medical professionals in our hospitals were prepared. That they were dedicated and loyal and would do what needs to be done.
Of course the Obama regime also thinks the average $14 per hour nurse is suicidal also apparently.
Betty_Rose
Veteran Member
And I can tell you - garage-door springs are wound very, very tight! Mine just broke! LOL.
On a more serious note, I'm losing track here. Are these two new cases of Ebola in NY/NJ or three?
Lilbitsnana
On TB every waking moment
One confirmed in NY (Dr Spencer), plus however many contacts that have been quarantined or being watched.
One HCW (nurse) in NJ that was quarantined and then hospitalized after arriving at the Newark airport. She has preliminarily tested "negative" as of early this AM.
Betty_Rose
Veteran Member
Thank you very much.
It would seem that someone somewhere would be scrambling to figure out a better way to do early testing of Ebola victims.
After all, the WORLD has a vested interest in this.
Lilbitsnana
On TB every waking moment
You're welcome.
On the NJ woman, we all knew it was probably too early to test and that early tests can come back false negatives. Now, if I heard correctly, the CDC is going to be the one to call the shots on whether she is retested at a later date.
nadhob
Veteran Member
Plenty of time to retest, as I understand she'll remain a guest at the gouvenors inn for the next 21 days....
Many New York residents are "wound too tight", myself included (NY Resident ). BUT, there seems to be a disconnect. Many say that its all hype and will only be concerned when it hits closer to home. Any speaks about prepping falls on tightly wound but deaf ears.
There may be riots and looting when the panic starts, However, it will be all about keeping your distance from others who could be infected.
LI Prepper
There may be riots and looting when the panic starts, However, it will be all about keeping your distance from others who could be infected.
LI Prepper
Cascadians
Leska Emerald Adams
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/health/ebola-effect-on-body/
Ahso. The correct term is Ebola Psychosis. Very real, documented, and can be a problem even if surviving.
Ahso. The correct term is Ebola Psychosis. Very real, documented, and can be a problem even if surviving.
shinerbock
Innocent Bystander
DW says you're out of step with pay scale for nurses. She made $14 per hour in 1975. Nurse aides make that much and LPNs even more at the current time. : )
Lilbitsnana
On TB every waking moment
probably a nut case, but...posting here anyway...
Alex Brauer @AlexThePhotog 14m14 minutes ago
Overheard on scanner: Man outside of Whitehouse claims to have #Ebola. Police treating it as a possible psych case.
Alex Brauer @AlexThePhotog 14m14 minutes ago
Overheard on scanner: Man outside of Whitehouse claims to have #Ebola. Police treating it as a possible psych case.
pinkelsteinsmom
Veteran Member
Agree......and, what about all the people on these airplanes with these people, crew etc that are just being released into the country???
Be Well
may all be well
"Ebola" and "psych case" are sadly not necessarily one OR the other....
Wise Owl
Deceased
Very true as we are finding out.
Doomer Doug
TB Fanatic
I think there are two types of panic people undergo in response to something like Ebola. The first is what I would call inactive panic. Inactive panic is when you stop your regular routine, like the medical workers not showing up for work and using sick days. Inactive panic is not something you do; it is something you no longer do in direct response to an event the person finds overwhelming, scary and life threatening. We are now starting to see first level, inactive panic in New York City, Dallas and any other geographic place where an Ebola infected person is admitted. Inactive panic will definitely cause chaos, targeted, selected and very much able to take down certain key infrastructures. The electric grid is dependent on workers showing up to run it. The medical system requires medical workers, so if they have a low level panic, which is what inactive panic really is, you will start to have system withering, followed by eventual system collapse.
The second level is active panic and this is a broader based fear response in the general population. Inactive panic tends to start first among those people directly involved in any response to the event, but it can quickly spread into the general population. Active panic can rapidly unleash very powerful political and economic waves of chaos that will lead to eventual system collapse, especially in a metro area like New York City.
I don't think we are the active panic level anywhere in the USA, but I do see signs of inactive panic among selected groups directly involved in the Ebola response. I mentioned earlier that I thought the decision by the CDC and Obama to only respond to the Ebola situation in a political manner would lead to a collapse of confidence. The CDC and Obama are now widely viewed as incompetent, political hacks trying to manage Ebola in the USA. People will respond to that by first a level of inactive panic among health care workers etc. The point I am making is that when we go level two, active panic, the IDIOTIC DECISION by both the CDC and Obama to squander credibility for short term political results will FEED THE ACTIVE PANIC IN THE GENERAL POPULATION. The general panic will happen faster, be worse, and last longer solely due to the fact people now KNOW both the CDC and Obama have no idea of what they are talking about.
Now, as to when all this will happen Doomer Doug will say this. I believe the first level, inactive panic has already started in the USA. The second level has not, yet, started, but Obama and CDC bungling means it is not that far out in the future.
The second level is active panic and this is a broader based fear response in the general population. Inactive panic tends to start first among those people directly involved in any response to the event, but it can quickly spread into the general population. Active panic can rapidly unleash very powerful political and economic waves of chaos that will lead to eventual system collapse, especially in a metro area like New York City.
I don't think we are the active panic level anywhere in the USA, but I do see signs of inactive panic among selected groups directly involved in the Ebola response. I mentioned earlier that I thought the decision by the CDC and Obama to only respond to the Ebola situation in a political manner would lead to a collapse of confidence. The CDC and Obama are now widely viewed as incompetent, political hacks trying to manage Ebola in the USA. People will respond to that by first a level of inactive panic among health care workers etc. The point I am making is that when we go level two, active panic, the IDIOTIC DECISION by both the CDC and Obama to squander credibility for short term political results will FEED THE ACTIVE PANIC IN THE GENERAL POPULATION. The general panic will happen faster, be worse, and last longer solely due to the fact people now KNOW both the CDC and Obama have no idea of what they are talking about.
Now, as to when all this will happen Doomer Doug will say this. I believe the first level, inactive panic has already started in the USA. The second level has not, yet, started, but Obama and CDC bungling means it is not that far out in the future.
bw
Fringe Ranger
Your first level is not panic, it's caution which is expressed appropriately to the threat. Avoiding the hospital when an Ebola victim might be there is no more panic than avoiding driving through an inner city ghetto. It's a sensible response by a thinking person. The person may well have misunderstood the level of the danger, or the direction from which it was coming, but it's still a sensible response. The economic impact may be both bad and powerful, but it's not panic.
Doomer Doug
TB Fanatic
There was a credible news report that said a significant number of the health care workers who were scheduled to work in the hospital treating Dr. Spencer failed to show up and called in sick. There was a credible news report of severe morale problems in the nurses etc who were still at the hospital with a "why me" syndrome. Finally, there was a credible news report that one of the on duty nurses "FAKED SYMPTOMS OF A STROKE" in order to be sent home from work. Now, if that isn't a sign of low level panic, Doomer Doug doesn't know what is.
The nurses are going to suffer some pretty severe consequences for the "sick in." They are starting to panic. Concern is when they ask to see the manager to complain, like the nurse news conference about the lack of supplies etc. If you are "concerned" you hold a news conference, or you complain to your supervisor. If you are in low level panic, you call off your work shift. Concern costs you nothing in lost pay, possible discipline or making your supervisor angry. If these medical workers weren't showing a low level panic, they would not risk the consequences of their actions. They clearly think it is better to not show up for work, take the heat than to show up. It is panic that causes them to do that, and not concern.
The nurses are going to suffer some pretty severe consequences for the "sick in." They are starting to panic. Concern is when they ask to see the manager to complain, like the nurse news conference about the lack of supplies etc. If you are "concerned" you hold a news conference, or you complain to your supervisor. If you are in low level panic, you call off your work shift. Concern costs you nothing in lost pay, possible discipline or making your supervisor angry. If these medical workers weren't showing a low level panic, they would not risk the consequences of their actions. They clearly think it is better to not show up for work, take the heat than to show up. It is panic that causes them to do that, and not concern.
Plain Jane
Just Plain Jane
Hunybee- I couldn't agree more. I taught high school. My kids get this and yet they will be the ones who are told that because they lack advanced degrees, they need to stay quiet! : (
hunybee
Veteran Member
doomer doug, i respectfully disagree.
this is the definition of panic
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/panic
a sudden overwhelming fear, with or without cause, that produces hysterical or irrational behavior, and that often spreads quickly through a group of persons or animals.
taking the measures needed because there is no other way is again, not panic. the woman was working and was supposed to work on that floor (was my understanding) and she could not get out of that area without larger measures. did you know that after they ran tests and determined that she did not have a stroke, they sent her back up to that floor to work. they do not have enough nurses.
it was not as though there was not precedent set. two nurses (at least) caught it by taking care of and active ebola patient. there may be real concern about the ppe the hospital is using or the procedures or any number of things that we are not aware of and the nurses are saying "uuuhhh...no". taking sick day and not coming in does not seem illogical or irrational.
screaming, crying, losing control of oneself and not acting in a rational or logical manner with hysteria and extreme and unfounded fear......that is not fitting what happened at that hospital.
that fun is yet to come
Doomer Doug
TB Fanatic
Amazing! You think a nurse who fakes a stroke to get out of dealing with an Ebola patient isn't showing signs of panic? And when I say that, you think I am engaged in ridicule? Seriously?
Plain Jane
Just Plain Jane
Perhaps the condition should be called "strategic incapacity"?
hunybee
Veteran Member
doug, i did not say you were ridiculing. not sure where you are getting that
but as far as the nurse faking a stroke, it could very well be, or it may not. since we are not there and we have no idea what she was being told by the higher ups or what she may have been forced (or tried to force) her to do, we won't know that for sure.
i will give you that people seeing the nurses NOT willing to work on the ebola patients can easily push the public into a panic as a side effect
but as far as the nurse faking a stroke, it could very well be, or it may not. since we are not there and we have no idea what she was being told by the higher ups or what she may have been forced (or tried to force) her to do, we won't know that for sure.
i will give you that people seeing the nurses NOT willing to work on the ebola patients can easily push the public into a panic as a side effect
Panic.
There are often two examples of the reaction to Panic - Fight or Flight.
In fact , there are three, Fight or Flight or Freeze.
I think that when people consciously ignore a clear threat and go beyond to argue that you are fear mongering they are in the third reaction mode. They just freeze and hope the danger does not see them. You might want to step back a bit before you convince them because there motor is already running and if you pop it into gear they will be off to the races.
Just a thought
There are often two examples of the reaction to Panic - Fight or Flight.
In fact , there are three, Fight or Flight or Freeze.
I think that when people consciously ignore a clear threat and go beyond to argue that you are fear mongering they are in the third reaction mode. They just freeze and hope the danger does not see them. You might want to step back a bit before you convince them because there motor is already running and if you pop it into gear they will be off to the races.
Just a thought
Be Well
may all be well
I agree with both your comments above. Panic is merely a word that means extreme fear. The nurses who did not show up for work fear getting ebola very much, and this is rational. Whether you use the word "panic" or "fear" really doesn't make much difference. "Panic" has the implication of irrationality and mass hysteria, which IMHO you do not mean in by inactive panic. I totally agree that by squandering any bit of trust, the CDC/0bola/his handlers have guaran-damn-teed real, crazy mass panic at some point in our future.
Be Well
may all be well
If you read a lot of Doomer Doug's comments about varied topics and about ebola, which you may have not since you are new, you would realize that he is not using ridicule at all.
Well said Be Well. I've been around here for a long time and always look forward to DD's comments as they are well thought out and provide a lot of useful info. I don't ever recall him reverting to ridicule.
Straycat
Veteran Member
Well, it depends completely on the individual. You can watch two different people take the same action (or inaction), but while one will be cautious and thoughtful, the other will be freaking out on the lines of "OMG OMG, we'll all die!" That latter is panic. A lower level of panic than the stereotype, to be sure, but still panic.
bw
Fringe Ranger
Then with all due respect, you don't know what panic is. Have you ever suffered a panic attack? Have you ever seen one?
bw
Fringe Ranger
Gotta disagree again. Fight, flight or freeze are all reasonable responses. Panic is when the individual is incapable of fight, flight or freezing. Panic is gibbering helpnessness.
Yes, the latter is panic, what DD was describing as his second level, more or less. But we're discussing the first level, and your freaking-out person is not at that level. Your first example corresponds to my description of sensible precautions, and that's not panic.
"Panic" by definition, doesn't have a "low level" version!!
Panic is OUT OF CONTROL fear. It's the reaction to fear that often results in a worse problem than the original issue that caused fear.
An example in the animal world: I had an Arabian gelding who was very spooky. He "saw" things differently than most horses, and because horses are a prey animal, a fear reaction to what he perceived to be an immediate threat was "normal". However, his reactions were NOT normal... they were panic reactions. He once ran right into a barn wall, because a fluttering flag had triggered his panic reaction. He wasn't hurt, but could have easily broken his neck. I often said of that horse "he'd jump in front of a semi-truck to avoid a pop can in the ditch"- and that's PANIC.
My current mare is young and still a bit skittish. For whatever reason, she really doesn't like white, fluttery things. However, her reaction when she sees these fear inducing objects is ONE jump, or a couple quick steps... then she stands still, faces the object and tries to assess the danger. She may (often is) be shaking with fear and blowing and snorting at the same time... but she's not panicking.
I don't see the reactions of the nurses as panic... however, they clearly are strong fear reactions to a threat, that they believe are rational. The nurse who faked a stroke must have REALLY been worried/afraid that she wasn't going to have proper PPE and was going to be asked to care for the patient without the necessary protection. (I've gotta say, I'd question that particular nurse's ability to handle any sort of an emergency... doesn't seem like she has the right personality type)
You can say the populace is panicking when they start lining up at schools to pull their kids out because they heard a rumor or report that "someone" in the school may have been exposed Ebola. You can call it panic when they start fighting each other in the stores for the last pack of nitrile gloves or jar of peanut butter. So far, we haven't seen it.
Summerthyme
Panic is OUT OF CONTROL fear. It's the reaction to fear that often results in a worse problem than the original issue that caused fear.
An example in the animal world: I had an Arabian gelding who was very spooky. He "saw" things differently than most horses, and because horses are a prey animal, a fear reaction to what he perceived to be an immediate threat was "normal". However, his reactions were NOT normal... they were panic reactions. He once ran right into a barn wall, because a fluttering flag had triggered his panic reaction. He wasn't hurt, but could have easily broken his neck. I often said of that horse "he'd jump in front of a semi-truck to avoid a pop can in the ditch"- and that's PANIC.
My current mare is young and still a bit skittish. For whatever reason, she really doesn't like white, fluttery things. However, her reaction when she sees these fear inducing objects is ONE jump, or a couple quick steps... then she stands still, faces the object and tries to assess the danger. She may (often is) be shaking with fear and blowing and snorting at the same time... but she's not panicking.
I don't see the reactions of the nurses as panic... however, they clearly are strong fear reactions to a threat, that they believe are rational. The nurse who faked a stroke must have REALLY been worried/afraid that she wasn't going to have proper PPE and was going to be asked to care for the patient without the necessary protection. (I've gotta say, I'd question that particular nurse's ability to handle any sort of an emergency... doesn't seem like she has the right personality type)
You can say the populace is panicking when they start lining up at schools to pull their kids out because they heard a rumor or report that "someone" in the school may have been exposed Ebola. You can call it panic when they start fighting each other in the stores for the last pack of nitrile gloves or jar of peanut butter. So far, we haven't seen it.
Summerthyme
Nightingale
Contributing Member
I don't blame the nurses at all. We are not trained for wear PPE of this magnitude. Yes we wear droplet nuclei PPE which is totally different. We wear that for TB, chicken pox and measles. Learning to wear the more involved PPE in a stressful situation where your life 'could' depend on if your doing it right or not is really hard.
Mulder
Contributing Member
:
Sorry, I see that I communicated my point very poorly above. I meant around where I live, not on this forum.
Mulder
Contributing Member
Doug,
My sincere apologies! My point was NOT directed at you! When I said people around "here" I meant people around where I live. I did NOT mean this forum. I see that I need to communicate more carefully.
Be Well
may all be well
Sorry I misunderstood!
I get a bit of disinterest sometime when I talk to people, haven't gotten too much ridicule thankfully.
Lilbitsnana
On TB every waking moment
sorry, wrong thread
Last edited:
Lilbitsnana
On TB every waking moment
sorry, wrong thread
geoffs
Veteran Member
My 24 yr old son is an FDNY EMS Paramedic, I just found out he's been selected to take the Hazmat Tech class next month. He says it's a three week class after which he'd be certified as one of the EMS First Responders to respond to an Ebola call in New York City. He's stationed in Queens, I'm not too thrilled about it, the training is good but not the Ebola response part.
Lilbitsnana
On TB every waking moment
posted for fair use
http://7online.com/health/friends-f...bola-expected-to-be-released-saturday/364245/
Fiancee of doctor with Ebola released from Bellevue Hospital
Dr. Spencer's fiancee returns home from hospital
AJ Ross has the latest developments from Hamilton Heights.
WABC
Sunday, October 26, 2014 12:43AM
NEW YORK (WABC) --
The fiancee of a doctor who is being treated for Ebola has left Bellevue Hospital Center.
Morgan Dixon, the fiancee of Dr. Craig Spencer, left the hospital Saturday evening but will remain in quarantine in her upper Manhattan apartment.
Spencer was admitted to Bellevue on Thursday and tested positive for Ebola. His is the first case of the deadly virus in the city.
Dixon and two friends of the couple are in quarantine as a precaution.
Mayor Bill de Blasio said the quarantine for all three would be lifted on Nov. 14.
De Blasio spoke after eating lunch at a Greenwich Village restaurant where Spencer ate earlier this week.
Spencer arrived in New York on Oct. 17 after treating Ebola patients in Guinea.
Meanwhile, New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie and New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo earlier Friday announced a mandatory 21-day quarantine of medical workers and other airline passengers who have had contact with Ebola victims.
Meanwhile, New York City officials tried to temper fears Friday after a doctor was diagnosed with Ebola in a city where millions of people squeeze into crowded subways, buses and elevators every day.
"I want to repeat what I said last night: There is no cause for alarm," by the doctor's diagnosis Thursday, said Mayor Bill de Blasio, even as officials described Spencer riding the subway, taking a cab, bowling, visiting a coffee shop and eating at a restaurant in the past week. "New Yorkers who have not been exposed to an infected person's bodily fluids are simply not at risk."
Heath officials have repeatedly given assurances that the disease is spread only by direct contact with bodily fluids such as saliva, blood, vomit and feces, and that the dried virus survives on surfaces for only a matter of hours. They say the chances of the average New Yorker contracting Ebola are slim, as someone can't be infected just by being near someone who is sick with Ebola. Someone isn't contagious unless he or she is sick.
http://7online.com/health/friends-f...bola-expected-to-be-released-saturday/364245/
Fiancee of doctor with Ebola released from Bellevue Hospital
Dr. Spencer's fiancee returns home from hospital
AJ Ross has the latest developments from Hamilton Heights.
WABC
Sunday, October 26, 2014 12:43AM
NEW YORK (WABC) --
The fiancee of a doctor who is being treated for Ebola has left Bellevue Hospital Center.
Morgan Dixon, the fiancee of Dr. Craig Spencer, left the hospital Saturday evening but will remain in quarantine in her upper Manhattan apartment.
Spencer was admitted to Bellevue on Thursday and tested positive for Ebola. His is the first case of the deadly virus in the city.
Dixon and two friends of the couple are in quarantine as a precaution.
Mayor Bill de Blasio said the quarantine for all three would be lifted on Nov. 14.
De Blasio spoke after eating lunch at a Greenwich Village restaurant where Spencer ate earlier this week.
Spencer arrived in New York on Oct. 17 after treating Ebola patients in Guinea.
Meanwhile, New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie and New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo earlier Friday announced a mandatory 21-day quarantine of medical workers and other airline passengers who have had contact with Ebola victims.
Meanwhile, New York City officials tried to temper fears Friday after a doctor was diagnosed with Ebola in a city where millions of people squeeze into crowded subways, buses and elevators every day.
"I want to repeat what I said last night: There is no cause for alarm," by the doctor's diagnosis Thursday, said Mayor Bill de Blasio, even as officials described Spencer riding the subway, taking a cab, bowling, visiting a coffee shop and eating at a restaurant in the past week. "New Yorkers who have not been exposed to an infected person's bodily fluids are simply not at risk."
Heath officials have repeatedly given assurances that the disease is spread only by direct contact with bodily fluids such as saliva, blood, vomit and feces, and that the dried virus survives on surfaces for only a matter of hours. They say the chances of the average New Yorker contracting Ebola are slim, as someone can't be infected just by being near someone who is sick with Ebola. Someone isn't contagious unless he or she is sick.