WAR China Signals a Military Response to a Taiwan Visit by Pelosi

Red Baron

Paleo-Conservative
_______________

Very, very, interesting. That might explain what I saw on ADS-B Exchange a few hour ago.

I was looking for the speaker's plane inbound to Hawaii. Earlier reports said she was on a U.S. military Boeing C-40C.

I did not see her plane inbound but I did see the very exact type of plane inbound to Hawaii from Japan. Huh?

Might make sense now. If her plane was having an engine issue maybe that exact same plane from Japan was going to be the replacement aircraft if they couldn't fix hers in Hawaii?

1659218011500.png
 

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
CCTV made public for first time the images of the announced DF-17 medium-range ballistic missile launch with the hypersonic glide vehicle
RT 04secs
View: https://twitter.com/jesusfroman/status/1553445270389760000?s=20&t=Khf9f4tfXoCxa8DHlQB3mw


The Chinese Deputy Permanent Representative to the UN said that "no one should underestimate the determination and ability of more than 1.4 billion Chinese to defend their national sovereignty and territorial integrity"
RT 30secs
View: https://twitter.com/TpyxaNews/status/1553449008936501248?s=20&t=Xk0BkzjDHE5CFK9axApOmg

Nor should they underestimate the degree to which a CEP of under 100 meters can reset the playing field.
 

vector7

Dot Collector
Was wondering if Beijing is still angered by this?

Thinking Nancy's visit was all theater bluster until I saw a clip of her and 2 other US lawmakers being detained by Beijing back in 1991.

Flashback: Some footage from the CNN archive of Pelosi unfurling a pro-democracy banner in Tiananmen Square in 1991 (alongside Reps. Ben Jones and John Miller) before Chinese officials interrupt
RT 1min
View: https://twitter.com/lengshanshipin/status/1261545719808143361?s=20&t=Khf9f4tfXoCxa8DHlQB3mw
 

Red Baron

Paleo-Conservative
_______________
Very, very, interesting. That might explain what I saw on ADS-B Exchange a few hour ago.

I was looking for the speaker's plane inbound to Hawaii. Earlier reports said she was on a U.S. military Boeing C-40C.

I did not see her plane inbound but I did see the very exact type of plane inbound to Hawaii from Japan. Huh?

Might make sense now. If her plane was having an engine issue maybe that exact same plane from Japan was going to be the replacement aircraft if they couldn't fix hers in Hawaii?

View attachment 354131

Just saw this happen not once, but twice in a row.

A large commercial airplane with an apparent unidentified contact almost directly underneath the larger plane and flying at exactly the same speed. In both cases, the pair of planes took off east from Honolulu and then turned to the South.

This is very odd. I wonder how much of this is electronic "spoofing" to confuse ADS-B or even the primary local radar?

1659220377232.png
 

jward

passin' thru
So no one else read this as a hopeful sign China was pivoting toward blaming Taiwan, and in effect, signaling at least a willingness to deescalate??

hmm.

Doge
@IntelDoge

2h

#China's Global Times Hu Xijin in response to reports that Pelosi has begun a trip to Asia, including Taiwan, threatens "severe punishment actions" on Taiwan, says "the unbearable consequences" will fall on Taiwan's leadership.
 

Doc1

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I cannot understand the reason for Pelosi's trip to Taiwan. If the reason is to intentionally precipitate a Chinese military response, why send an 80+ year-old woman to do the deed? It would be better optics to send a US general officer, who is, ultimately, paid to go into harm's way. It would also be more provocative.

If the reason for Pelosi's trip is for some sort of military or trade negotiations, there are other people better qualified and more capable of doing that. This is an extremely strange (and probably unwise) time to conduct a provocative exercise with China, especially while we are busy involving ourselves in the Ukrainian debacle.

Best
Doc
 

blueinterceptor

Veteran Member
NP went to Taiwan for a visit on the taxpayers dime. Nothing else. She’s out of office come January and can’t set herself up for these junkets on the taxpayers dime
 

Blue 5

Veteran Member
The fact that there were no real leaks from either side of the Biden/Xi phone call tells me it was deadly serious.

My WAG is that they were laying out their plan for allowing China to take Taiwan (with 10% for the big guy). We lose a few ships and one lousy house speaker (potential Biden family rival) to make it look like we put up a fight. Once we sue for peace and China has Taiwan Biden will say there's nothing we can do so we'll all just have to accept it, send them sternly worded letters condemning their actions, and play nice again. Again, just a guess from a rank geopolitics amateur.

I expect war to break out at any moment.
 

vector7

Dot Collector
The problem is China won't stop at Taiwan, once the Dragon's lose they'll be harder to contain going forward.

Especially if the rest of their allies are fortifying and or opening up more fronts to contain.
 
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Techwreck

Veteran Member
I cannot understand the reason for Pelosi's trip to Taiwan. If the reason is to intentionally precipitate a Chinese military response, why send an 80+ year-old woman to do the deed? It would be better optics to send a US general officer, who is, ultimately, paid to go into harm's way. It would also be more provocative.

If the reason for Pelosi's trip is for some sort of military or trade negotiations, there are other people better qualified and more capable of doing that. This is an extremely strange (and probably unwise) time to conduct a provocative exercise with China, especially while we are busy involving ourselves in the Ukrainian debacle.

Best
Doc
Fake provocation, or if something happens, cog realignment
 

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
The problem is China won't stop at Taiwan, once the Dragon's lose they'll be harder to contain going forward.

Especially if the rest of their allies are fortifying and or opening up more fronts to contain.

Considering what the CCP would by necessity have to do in order to ensure success in such an endeavor (attack US bases in the Pacific Rim as well allied nations), they'd pretty much guarantee a nuclear exchange.
 

vector7

Dot Collector
"According to reliable sources! ! A C17 without a callsign left Hawaii, and soon after the voyage, the transponder was turned off and disappeared from the map. Pelosi is expected to take this military C-17 to the first stop in Japan."
View: https://twitter.com/MountainChen4/status/1553569563610161163?s=20&t=OAMk5npAO0RMowdlQXv2jw

Pelosi had an escort in protective formation of 15 Air Force fighter jets and I B1 Lancer extended range bomber
View: https://twitter.com/TAnthonyPotter/status/1553500585256751104?s=20&t=vVFro96XMFKmx5_QRUd3mg
 

Pinecone

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I've been pondering, like most of you, why Pelosi is going to Taiwan. Woo alert!

My latest theory is that she has a terminal illness. She has nothing to lose.

If she goes to Taiwan and China does nothing, she has stood up to the Dragon - what a brave woman she is!

Or if she gets blown out of the sky or turns into a crater on the ground, then what a brave woman she was - she's a martyr.

Either way, in her mind, improves her legacy and reputation.
 

vector7

Dot Collector
Pentagon + Rand Corporation, one of the oldest & most respected ThinkTank about Strategic matters ran simulations. Clear conclusion when it comes to US "defending" (Pushing?) Taiwan:

FY990Z8XwAAQzPp

US gets it beats everytime...
View: https://twitter.com/Tyron911147/status/1553600187897155586?s=20&t=hHkY2EQ9DJR-vEPilz_aHA


U.S. "Gets It's Ass Handed To It" In World War III Simulations: RAND

“In our games, when we fight Russia and China … blue (America) gets its ass handed to it,” RAND senior researcher David Ochmanek said during a panel discussion at the Center for a New American Security think tank last week.

Fast forwarded to start at his remarks at approximately 13:07 in the video below:

Panel Discussion: Why America gets its ass handed to it in a war against Russia and China

Outline of those comments:

America loses a lot of people
America loses a lot equipment
America fails to contain regional aggression
  • All 5 domains of warfare are contested from the outset of hostilities
  • We no longer have air superiority over the battle space
  • We no longer have maritime superiority
  • Our Space assets are under attack by kinetic and non-kinetic means from the outset of hostilities
  • Our command and control are under attack by electromagnetic and cyber means from the outset of hostilities
  • Our forward bases at land or at sea are all under attack from the outset of hostilities
  • We no longer have traditional regional military umbrella sanctuaries to safely operate from
Center for a New American Security (CNAS) Think Tank Discussion On A War With Russia and China (1:20min)
View: https://youtu.be/m1DtXOuU0M0?t=785

Russia and China tell Biden: The old days are over - Asia Times
View: https://twitter.com/CommoLt/status/1375501101923921920

Tucker Carlson accuses Joe Biden of trying to feminize the military, argues China is ramping up it's military masculinity.
RT 38secs
View: https://twitter.com/NikkiMcR/status/1369463184978042881

The US has been too weak to fight a 2-front war for at least since Obama was elected. Trump to his credit, was trying to rebuild the US military, w/ an eye on Beijing. Even if he'd been allowed to succeed, a 2-front war would be very unwise.
View: https://twitter.com/Chaleck/status/1375546510130221061
 

jward

passin' thru
How a Pelosi Taiwan visit could play out in region
Mark Valencia



If Nancy Pelosi, Speaker of the US House of Representatives, goes ahead with a planned visit to Taiwan, there should not on the face of it be any cause to link her trip with a conflict between China and the US in the South China Sea. But there is, because that is where China might kinetically express its displeasure with the visit.
The South China Sea is where the two countries’ national-security interests and concepts of “the international order” – as well as their strategies to further them – grind against each other like two tectonic plates. Something has to give, and a visit to Taiwan by Pelosi could trigger a political earthquake.

Overall US-China relations are now the worst since the late Richard Nixon opened modern relations in 1972. At the June Shangri-La Dialogue in Singapore, Chinese Defense Minister General Wei Fenghe warned US Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin, “If you want confrontation, we will fight to the very end.”
Beijing views Taiwan as a renegade province that must be reunited with China. It is obvious that President Xi Jinping is not bluffing in regard to his desire to do so, in his lifetime, whatever it takes. It is just as obvious that some US leaders – such as Pelosi – either do not get the depth and breadth of China’s angst and yearning for reunification, or are determined to prevent it – even if it risks war.
China’s ruling Communist Party is preparing for its 20th National Congress, and Xi will likely seek an unprecedented third term as president. In the present environment, a visit by the third in line to the US presidency will be seen by Xi as an “in your face” challenge that must be answered.
The question is not whether China will respond, but how and where.
A likely venue for expression of its displeasure is the South China Sea. It is currently a nexus of the US-China contest for regional hegemony. It is there that their strategic trajectories converge.

Beijing is developing what Washington calls an “access/area denial strategy” designed to control China’s “near seas” and prevent access by the US in the event of a conflict. The US response is a plan of action intended to cripple China’s command, control, communications, computer and intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) systems.
Thus ISR is the “tip of the spear” for both, and both are trying to dominate this sphere over, on and under China’s near seas.
More important to Beijing, the South China Sea provides relative “sanctuary” for China’s retaliatory-strike nuclear submarines based in Yulin on Hainan. These submarines are its insurance against a first nuclear strike – something the US, unlike China, has not disavowed.
The US wants to deny China this “sanctuary.” It uses ISR probes to detect and determine the capabilities of China’s submarines, as well as to track and if necessary target them.
Incidents result when China challenges US ISR probes that it thinks directly threaten its security. The US now thinks that China has made it a policy to be more aggressive in its military encounters with US probes and freedom of navigation operations (FONOPs).

The US military now undertakes an average of four ISR missions a day over the South China Sea. That’s about 1,500 a year. Some come as close as 25 nautical miles to Chinese territory, and Beijing understandably sees this as threatening. In June, a Chinese warplane made an “unsafe” intercept of one of them. This raises the specter of another event like the EP-3 incident in 2001 that brought the two countries to the brink.
To China, it is the US that is being more “assertive” in the South China Sea, beginning with its 2011 “pivot” followed by stepped-up FONOPs, ISR probes and more frequent projections of the epitome of power: aircraft-carrier strike groups and nuclear-capable bombers and submarines.
The administration of Donald Trump increased the tempo of US military activities there, challenging what it saw as China’s attempts to undermine the US-led “international order.” The situation became so fraught that Beijing thought the US was going to attack its installations in the South China Sea. President Joe Biden’s administration has continued and even worsened the situation.

Right now the USS Ronald Reagan aircraft-carrier strike group is in the South China Sea, and the USS Benfold just completed FONOPs challenging China’s claims in the Paracels and the Spratlys. Adding insult to injury, Benfold then transited the Taiwan Strait.
The situation could hardly be more dangerous. The two areas of confrontation, Taiwan and the South China Sea, are beginning to feed on each other.
High-ranking US officials have parroted the US line that China’s “provocations” in the South China Sea are increasing and warned that such “aggressive and irresponsible behavior” could result in a major incident. Indeed, this smoldering tinderbox could burst into flames at the slightest provocation.
A visit to Taiwan by Pelosi would be much more than a “slight” provocation. High-ranking Chinese officials have privately warned the Biden administration in much starker terms than usual that Beijing’s reaction to such a visit by Pelosi would be significant and could even include a military response.

As leading Australian analyst Carl Thayer says, “Xi Jinping may have no recourse but to provoke a crisis to demonstrate China’s resolve.” This in turn would test the Biden administration’s resolve.
A prominent commentator on US-China relations, Shi Yinhong, thinks Beijing may be able to mount a military response that avoids a larger conflict. It may try to do so in the South China Sea rather than confronting the US military around Taiwan, which could well trigger war.
At the least some US officials and leading analysts think that in response to a Pelosi visit China will become even more aggressive in military encounters there.

 

homecanner1

Veteran Member
Yeah its a win/win for her she made Beijing blink and either they cave or they give her martyrdom.

I have this sick sensation it would be used to push the Assault Weapons ban in the Senate named in her memory

She looks trapped with no where to go but down in flames.

Screenshot (8374).png
 

Abert

Veteran Member
There is NO WAY She is going to risk HER LIFE - over issues of Freedom ?? -
She only takes actions that advance her POWER and related to that - MONEY.
There is ZERO upside for her to go - but there might be a BIG PAYOUT if she does not.
 

jward

passin' thru
The Spectator Index
@spectatorindex



BREAKING: Press release by US House Speaker Pelosi lists she will visit Singapore, Malaysia, South Korea and Japan on upcoming trip, without mention of Taiwan.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
12:57 AM · Jul 31, 2022·TweetDeck



[URL='https://twitter.com/SpeakerPelosi']

Nancy Pelosi
@SpeakerPelosi[/URL]


I'm leading a Congressional delegation to the Indo-Pacific to reaffirm America’s unshakeable commitment to our allies & friends in the region. In Singapore, Malaysia, South Korea & Japan, we’ll hold high-level meetings to discuss how we can further our shared interests & values.
We look forward to productive meetings that will continue to inform Congress’s work to strengthen our partnerships & advance our interests. These include peace & security, economic growth & trade, the COVID-19 pandemic, the climate crisis, human rights and democratic governance.
Under the strong leadership of President Biden, America is firmly committed to smart, strategic engagement in the region, understanding that a free and flourishing Indo-Pacific is crucial to prosperity in our nation and around the globe.
After a fuel stop in Hawaii, we were honored with a briefing from USINDOPACOM Leadership, as well as a visit to the Pearl Harbor Memorial and the USS Arizona. Our Members paid our respects to the valiant Servicemembers who perished in the brutal attack on Pearl Harbor.
During our travels, we’ll continue to convey Congress & America’s gratitude for our brave Servicemembers stationed abroad, whose service makes the region & world more stable & safe. Read my statement on our Congressional delegation to the Indo-Pacific.


12:57 AM · Jul 31, 2022·Twitter for iPhone



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The Rage | Conflict News
@RagexNews


The Chinese Air Force is flying to the island of Taiwan to protect the national sovereignty and territorial integrity of its country, said Shen Jinke, spokesman for the Chinese People's Liberation Army Air Force.


12:33 AM · Jul 31, 2022·Twitter for iPhone
 

jward

passin' thru
Pelosi to Lead Congressional Delegation to Indo-Pacific Region

July 31, 2022
Press Release

Washington, D.C. – Speaker Nancy Pelosi is leading a Congressional delegation to the Indo-Pacific region, including visits to Singapore, Malaysia, South Korea and Japan. The trip will focus on mutual security, economic partnership and democratic governance in the Indo-Pacific region.
“Today, our Congressional delegation travels to the Indo-Pacific to reaffirm America’s strong and unshakeable commitment to our allies and friends in the region,” Speaker Nancy Pelosi said. “In Singapore, Malaysia, South Korea and Japan, our delegation will hold high-level meetings to discuss how we can further advance our shared interests and values, including peace and security, economic growth and trade, the COVID-19 pandemic, the climate crisis, human rights and democratic governance. Under the strong leadership of President Biden, America is firmly committed to smart, strategic engagement in the region, understanding that a free and flourishing Indo-Pacific is crucial to prosperity in our nation and around the globe.”
Speaker Pelosi continued, “After a fuel stop in Hawaii, we were honored with a briefing from USINDOPACOM Leadership, as well as a visit to the Pearl Harbor Memorial and the USS Arizona. Our Members paid our respects to the valiant Servicemembers who perished in the brutal attack on Pearl Harbor. Throughout our travels, we will continue to convey the endless gratitude of Congress and the Country for our brave U.S. Servicemembers stationed abroad, whose service makes the region and world more stable and safe.”
“It is my privilege as Speaker to lead this distinguished group of Members, which includes Chairs of Committees and Subcommittees of jurisdiction and champions of a strong U.S.-Asia Pacific partnership,” Speaker Pelosi said. “We look forward to productive meetings that will continue to inform Congress’s work to advance our values and interests and strengthen our partnerships in the region.”
The Members of the delegation are:
  • Speaker Nancy Pelosi
  • Chairman Gregory Meeks, Chair of the House Foreign Affairs Committee
  • Chairman Mark Takano, Chair of the House Committee on Veterans’ Affairs
  • Congresswoman Suzan DelBene, Vice Chair, House Ways and Means Committee
  • Congressman Raja Krishnamoorthi, Member of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence; Chair of the Subcommittee on Economic and Consumer Policy of the House Committee on Oversight and Reform
  • Congressman Andy Kim, Member of the House Armed Services Committee; Member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee
 
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