CRIME Asphyxiation not the cause of George Floyd's death: Autopsy

Altura Ct.

Veteran Member
George Floyd died Monday from a combination of preexisting health conditions exacerbated by being held down by Minneapolis officers, not from strangulation or asphyxiation, based on the medical examiner’s initial report.
Preliminary findings from a Tuesday autopsy conducted by the Hennepin County Medical Examiner found “no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxiation or strangulation,” according to the criminal complaint filed Friday against former officer Derek Michael Chauvin.

“Mr. Floyd had underlying health conditions including coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease,” said the complaint from the Hennepin County Attorney. “The combined effects of Mr. Floyd being restrained by police, his underlying health conditions and any potential intoxicants in his system likely contributed to his death.”

The Minneapolis police officer fired earlier this week was charged Friday with third-degree murder and manslaughter after kneeling on Mr. Floyd’s neck for 8 minutes and 46 seconds. Video showed he was unresponsive for the last 2 minutes and 53 seconds.

“Police are trained that this type of restraint with a subject in a prone position is inherently dangerous,” the complaint said.

 

AlfaMan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Truth or not, protesters aren't going to believe a word the coroner speaks. So standing on a man's neck didn't kill him? With his pre existing conditions, that's what killed him. Enough stress on someone with those conditions and a blood vessel is going to pop somewhere.

What exactly did this guy do to get cops standing on his head. I've been immersed/drowning in a training class for the last 3 days, I barely know what day it is. (Intense is the best way to describe what I've done this week. ) Have heard very little news this week.
 

KFhunter

Veteran Member
One thing I agree with most of the TB2K'rs

It doesn't matter how he died now, the jury of public opinion has slammed down their collective gavel. The community organizers are organizing, the leaders are leading - the revolution is underway.

Their aim is to destroy this Presidency and usher in a new government.

As for Floyd, if we're arguing about how he died...we're 3 days behind.
 

llknp

Senior Member
One thing I agree with most of the TB2K'rs

It doesn't matter how he died now, the jury of public opinion has slammed down their collective gavel. The community organizers are organizing, the leaders are leading - the revolution is underway.

Their aim is to destroy this Presidency and usher in a new government.

As for Floyd, if we're arguing about how he died...we're 3 days behind.

Floyd is so far back in the liberal time line as to be virtually invisible.
 

Donald Shimoda

In Absentia

^^^Not this guy's fault, but...that's not how everyone around him sees it.^^^

Let's face it - Floyd was essentially in police custody, and died while in their hands (or under their knees). His arteries could have had the consistency of 20 year old concrete - it doesn't matter.

Frankly, in a situation like this - use some mace, cuff the perp, get them in the car, and get them out of your hands ASAP so the liability is no longer yours.
 

Scotto

Set Apart
So despite the man pleading and wheezing, saying that he couldn't breathe - it was something else that killed him besides the cop kneeling on his neck?

Coroner's office burning in 3...2...1...
 

Ragnarok

On and On, South of Heaven
He died from being a lifelong thug.


George Floyd Left a Gospel Legacy in Houston
As a person of peace, “Big Floyd” opened up ministry opportunities in the Third Ward housing projects.

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The rest of the country knows George Floyd from several minutes of cell phone footage captured during his final hours. But in Houston’s Third Ward, they know Floyd for how he lived for decades—a mentor to a generation of young men and a “person of peace” ushering ministries into the area.

Before moving to Minneapolis for a job opportunity through a Christian work program, the 46-year-old spent almost his entire life in the historically black Third Ward, where he was called “Big Floyd” and regarded as an “OG,” a de-facto community leader and elder statesmen, his ministry partners say.

Floyd spoke of breaking the cycle of violence he saw among young people and used his influence to bring outside ministries to the area to do discipleship and outreach, particularly in the Cuney Homes housing project, locally known as “the Bricks.”

“George Floyd was a person of peace sent from the Lord that helped the gospel go forward in a place that I never lived in,” said Patrick PT Ngwolo, pastor of Resurrection Houston, which held services at Cuney.

“The platform for us to reach that neighborhood and the hundreds of people we reached through that time and up to now was built on the backs of people like Floyd,” he told Christianity Today.

Ngwolo and fellow leaders met Floyd in 2010. He was a towering 6-foot-6 guest who showed up at a benefit concert they put on for the Third Ward. From the start, Big Floyd made his priorities clear.

“He said, ‘I love what you’re doing. The neighborhood need it, the community need it, and if y’all about God’s business, then that’s my business,’” said Corey Paul Davis, a Christian hip-hop artist who attended Resurrection Houston. “He said, ‘Whatever y’all need, wherever y’all need to go, tell ’em Floyd said y’all good. I got y’all.’”

The church expanded its involvement in the area, holding Bible studies and helping out with groceries and rides to doctor’s appointments. Floyd didn’t just provide access and protection; he lent a helping hand as the church put on services, three-on-three basketball tournaments, barbecues, and community baptisms.

“He helped push the baptism tub over, understanding that people were going to make a decision of faith and get baptized right there in the middle of the projects. He thought that was amazing,” said Ronnie Lillard, who performs under the name Reconcile. “The things that he would say to young men always referenced that God trumps street culture. I think he wanted to see young men put guns down and have Jesus instead of the streets.”

More than 50 people have been killed over the past several years in what authorities describe as a gang war spreading from the Third Ward and southeast Houston.

It can be hard for outsiders to gain trust, or even ensure safety, coming in on their own. The “stamp of approval” granted from a figure like Floyd is crucial for urban discipleship, which requires access, direction, and context to be effective.

“His faith was a heart for the Third Ward that was radically changed by the gospel, and his mission was empowering other believers to be able to come in and push that gospel forth,” said Nijalon Dunn, who was baptized at Cuney. “There are things that Floyd did for us that we’ll never know until the other side of eternity. There were times where we’d have Church at the Bricks until 3 p.m., and by 4:30, they’re firing shots right at the basketball courts.”

Dunn shared pictures of Floyd at his baptism and basketball games. Floyd’s handle included the name “BigFloyd4God.”

Tributes and prayers of lament from fellow Christians rolled in over social media as the news of Floyd’s death spread this week. On Twitter, Davis described Floyd as “the definition of ‘Be the change you want to see’” and shared a video tribute that has been viewed 1.1 million times. Popular Christian hip-hop artist Propaganda reposted the reflections from fellow artists who knew Floyd saying, “He was a friend of my friends.”

Floyd moved to Minnesota around 2018, his family told the Houston Chronicle. He was there for a discipleship program including a job placement, according to pastor Ngwolo. “A ‘Bricks boy’ doesn’t just leave the Third Ward and go to Minnesota!” he said. Floyd told Dunn he had plans to return this summer.

Though he never made it home, he’ll be “immortalized in the Third Ward community forever,” Lillard said. “His mural will be on the walls. Every youth and young man growing up will know George Floyd. The people who knew him personally will remember him as a positive light. Guys from the streets look to him like, ‘Man, if he can change his life, I can change mine.’”

Ministry leaders have heard from community members in the Third Ward who called Floyd their brother, uncle, or even their dad because they lacked older male figures to serve as a positive influence.

Mourners gathered Tuesday night for a prayer vigil in Emancipation Park, a historic Third Ward site that was once the only park open to African Americans in Houston during Jim Crow segregation. Ngwolo is meeting this week with area pastors to lament together.

The viral video of Floyd pinned to the pavement by a Minnesota police officer joins a devastating canon of cell phone footage depicting police using force against black men. His friends in ministry said that when it turned up on the news they weren’t ready to watch another clip so soon after the recording of Ahmaud Arbery being shot while jogging in Georgia and the video of a woman calling 911 on a black man watching birds in New York’s Central Park. But then Lillard texted: It was Big Floyd.

There’s only so much disbelief they can muster from this kind of killing. They’re black men too. Despite their innocence, their faith, their good deeds, they have their own stories of being suspected, humiliated, and threatened by authorities, Lillard told CT.

And now they’re put in the position of rightly remembering a man they knew as a gentle giant, an inspiration to his neighborhood, and a positive force for change. But they also say that shouldn’t matter. He was a fellow image-bearer, and that should have been enough to keep him from the aggressive treatment they saw in the viral clip. Floyd’s family and supporters say the officers involved—who were fired from the department—should face murder charges.

Pastor Ngwolo is still trying to process the news, but one theme he keeps coming back to is the shedding of innocent blood. After Cain’s superiority and animosity drove him to kill Abel, Scripture tells us, “The Lord said, ‘What have you done? Listen! Your brother’s blood cries out to me from the ground’” (Gen. 4:10).

“If you fast-forward 2,000 years, there’s another innocent sufferer whose blood spoke of better things than Abel’s. … Jesus’ blood says he can redeem us through these dark and perilous times,” Ngwolo said. “I have hope because just like Abel is a Christ figure, I see my brother [Floyd] as a Christ figure as well, pointing us to a greater reality. God does hear us. He hears his cry even from the ground now. Vengeance will either happen on the cross or will happen on Judgment Day.”
 

Donald Shimoda

In Absentia
Rioters must riot and looters must loot.

looter_13_south_park.jpg
 

dstraito

TB Fanatic
I wonder if there is any truth to both Floyd and the cop kneeling on him worked for the same security detail.

Or that the Kneeler was at the Boston Shooting and Sandy Hook.

or why two cops were driving the ambulance, took a pulse, did not try any medical treatment and drove off quickly with him

Anyone benefit from creating chaos and division?
 

Kris Gandillon

The Other Curmudgeon
_______________
The cop kneeling on his neck killed him. The coroner said wasn't asphyxiation, but all the other crap wrong with him that caused him to die when he got knelt on. Not complicated, really.
So...

On the other big thread we debate dying "of Covid" or dying "with Covid" and how they were counting both as a Covid death.

This situation is either dying "of cop knee on neck" or dying "with cop knee on neck".

In the Covid situation, many did not agree with calling it a Covid-caused death because of all the co-morbidities that actually caused the death.

In this cop situation, we definitely want to call it a death-by-cop even though the coroner says that the co-morbidities actually caused the death.

Do I have this right?
 
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llknp

Senior Member
The cop kneeling on his neck killed him. The coroner said wasn't asphyxiation, but all the other crap wrong with him that caused him to die when he got knelt on. Not complicated, really.
The question now is, why was the officer kneeling on Floyd's neck? What happened between the time an officer got Floyd up off the sidewalk and the video showing him on the ground being kneeled on. How much time past between the two videos? Was Floyd still handcuffed? Does kneeling on a perpetrator fall within the MPD restraint guidelines? All quite complicated, actually.
 
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naturallysweet

Has No Life - Lives on TB
So he died with police custody, not from police custody.
This is why the video tapes that show what happens between after him being cuffed and him being on the ground is so important. Because if he tried to fight his way away from the police officer after he was cuffed. Then he was the cause of his own death and they were right to take him down.
 

TammyinWI

Talk is cheap
Did I read on the long thread that people heard the poor guy's neck crack/break??? Yeah, I read that some where on the forum. Was wondering if that is true or not. No one deserves to be abused like that.

Like mzkitty wrote, who could survive that which was shown on the video, that long, health conditions or not?

I don't think that I would survive that either.

I believe that this is all a set-up, though...aka false flag.
 

Trouble

Veteran Member
Does any of it truly matter? Nope, the simian masses are on the move for new stuff and to destroy as well as pushing their moronic agenda. I couldn't care less about this guy, If it would have been a white man, nothing would have been said. If they weren't the trouble making shit bags they are, LE would've been after them constantly. They are a product of their own worthless making.
 

mrrk1562

Veteran Member
No reason to kneel on his neck .the cop might of well as just stepped on his neck with his booted foot .no matter how you look at it the optics are bad for the cops no matter how it looks ..just bad all around for everyone ...
 

Publius

TB Fanatic
So...

On the other big thread we debate dying "of Covid" or dying "with Covid" and how they were counting both as a Covid death.

This situation is either dying "of cop knee on neck" or dying "with cop knee on neck".

In the Covid situation, many did not agree with calling it a Covid-caused death because of all the co-morbidities that actually caused the death.

In this cop situation, we definitely want to call it a death-by-cop even though the coroner says that the co-morbidities actually caused the death.

Do I have this right?



That right there pretty much sums it up.
 
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summerthyme

Administrator
_______________
So he died with police custody, not from police custody.
This is why the video tapes that show what happens between after him being cuffed and him being on the ground is so important. Because if he tried to fight his way away from the police officer after he was cuffed. Then he was the cause of his own death and they were right to take him down.
Except that, once he was cuffed, on the ground and under their control, there was NO valid reason to continue kneeling on him.

I'm curious, because I have no clue... could compression of the carotid artery cause death without leaving any signs typical of asphyxiation or "strangulation"? Because it looked to me like the cop was kneeling on the side of his neck in a way that could have been causing that...

I absolutely agree that his behavior (IF it's true that, as reported, once cuffed he refused to sit in the patrol car) was a huge contributor to his death, regardless of the terminal cause. Once again, if he'd just cooperated and gotten into the patrol car, he'd be alive, and likely out on bail within hours. It seems a curious overreaction for a relatively minor charge... unless he had thousands of bucks in counterfeit at his home, and was worried about it turning into a major federal beef. Otherwise, as others have pointed out, it's very possible to get a counterfeit bill just in normal commerce and "pass it" without knowledge or intent.

Summerthyme
 
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Silverfox

TWTFS
The question now is, why was the officer kneeling on Floyd's neck? What happened between the time an officer got Floyd up off the sidewalk and the video showing him on the ground being kneeled on. How much time past between the two videos? Was Floyd still handcuffed? Does kneeling on a perpetrator fall within the MPD restraint guidelines? All quite complicated, actually.
And could lead to a finding of: Qualified Immunity. Particularly if the department had a supporting Policy in effect. No prosecution = a really big riot response. Qualified Immunity would terminate the case prior to the conduct of a trial. I'm thinking there are violations of legal procedures in the race to prosecute. I do not support the actions of the cop. Ever notice how the after action investigation doesn't seem to follow the way you or I would be prosecuted? And typically it is sealed.
 

KFhunter

Veteran Member
Except that, once he was cuffed, on the ground and under their control, there was NO valid reason to continue kneeling on him.

I'm curious, because I have no clue... could compression of the carotid artery cause death without leaving any signs typical of asphyxiation or "strangulation"? Because it looked to me like the cop was kneeling on the side of his neck in a way that could have been causing that...

I absolutely agree that his behavior (IF it's true that, as reported, once cuffed he refused to sit in the patrol car) was a huge contributor to his death, regardless of the terminal cause. Once again, if he'd just cooperated and gotten into the patrol car, he'd be alive, and likely out on bail within hours. It seems a curious overreaction for a relatively minor charge... unless he had thousands of bucks in counterfeit at his home, and was worried about it turning into a major federal beef. Otherwise, as others have pointed out, it's very possible to get a counterfeit bill just in normal commerce and "pass it" without knowledge or intent.

Summerthyme

You want to apply logic to a person with altered mental status?
 
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