SCI 14,000-year-old village discovered in Canada

[marsh]

http://www.opb.org/news/article/fort-rock-cave-archeologists-university-oregon/

Aug. 30, 2015

Archaeologists from the University of Oregon return this week to a cave where the oldest known footwear in the world was found.
10,000-year-old, bark-woven, sagebrush sandal. Found at Fort Rock Cave in 1938.

University Of Oregon

The 10,000-year-old, bark-woven, sagebrush sandal was found at Fort Rock Cave in Lake County, Oregon. Luther Cressman, who’s known as the “Father of Oregon Archaeology,” found it back in 1938.

In 1966, he returned with a graduate student, who uncovered a hearth among some Ice Age gravel. It was radiocarbon dated to roughly 15,000 years ago — making it one of the oldest hearths in Oregon.

Now, Tom Connolly with UO’s Museum of Natural History is returning to the cave. But he’s not looking for artifacts; there are already a lot of those.

Instead, Connolly is going to take soil samples and date them.

“Our objective is not to collect a whole bunch of stuff,” he said. “It’s really to understand the history of the cave a little bit better.”

Connolly said he’ll leave most of the cave alone so future scientists, perhaps using improved tools, still have something to study.

 

[FaithfulSkeptic]

Watch a few episodes of South Pacific on Netflix, specifically episode 2. Considering how the far east people populated the south pacific islands so long ago in nothing more than large dug-out canoes with outriggers and sails, I don't see any problem with people crossing the Bearing Straits thousands of years ago. Even 14000 years ago, the ocean would have been part of the lives of primitive humans living for extended periods on a coast, and would have found ways to build simple rafts. Especially driven by the curiosity of seeing land on the horizon ( Diomede island ).

I guess the inherent curiosity is what I found so fascinating in the aforementioned South Pacific episode. These were primitive people, and yet they had the courage to set out into the open sea and explore. Many of them probably didn't make it, but enough did, and they learned quickly.

 

[marsh]

When asked why she went back to school at her age she answered: "What am I supposed to do just sit around and wait to die?" She took History classes, Art and Music classes. She was having a great time. Didn't move very fast but she always got there!

My Grandmother went back to college in her eighties. She said part of the reason was because all her contemporary friends were dead and she wanted younger friends so they could out live her.

 

[packyderms_wife]

Who are those in charge?

Anthropologists and archeologists who are tenured, i.e., need not fear losing their jobs, in various govt's, universities, museums, and the like. Ask Melodi about these tyrants!

 

[packyderms_wife]

Migration around the world must have happened way before Columbus, navigation by sea around the world is so easy, why should N America have been cut off, there is so much buried history of humans that has been dismissed by people who think in terms of mere centuries.........the older it is the more likely it has been buried.......see Maps of the Ancient Sea Kings etc.........

Human history is not recorded much before 10,000 BC, humans have been around for a lot longer so where is the evidence.........

News flash for you. A few thousand years from now, after our societies decline and are then built up again, anthropologists will declare that our era had no written language, etc., because everything is on paper which deteriorates after a few years in the sun, rain, and winds.

We have the myth of atlantis and other fantastic tales from yore telling us about advanced societies and machines and how they were destroyed in the blink of an eye.

We're no different that those past advanced societies.

 

[Melodi]

Just for the record, this is the site in Turkey I was talking about; only one percent has been excavated, I have heard some projections that parts of the site may be as much as 14,000 years old as it was abandoned and buried 12,000 years ago (just the burial was an amazing bit of engineering).

When the site was first made public Nightwolf's comment was "those structures make Stonehenge look like a pile of old stones; I mean I like Stonehenge but this is seriously complicated engineering!"

Göbekli Tepe
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Göbekli Tepe structures A - D
The ruins of Göbekli Tepe
Göbekli Tepe is located in Turkey
Göbekli Tepe
Shown within Turkey
Location Örencik, Şanlıurfa Province, Turkey
Region N/A
Coordinates 37°13′23″N 38°55′21″ECoordinates: 37°13′23″N 38°55′21″E
Type Sanctuary
History
Founded about 11,500 years ago
Abandoned about 9,000 yrs ago.
Periods Pre-Pottery Neolithic A to B
Site notes
Condition well preserved
Website references:[1]

Göbekli Tepe (pronounced [ɟøbekˈli teˈpe][2]), "Potbelly Hill"[3] in Turkish, is an archaeological site atop a mountain ridge in the Southeastern Anatolia Region of modern-day Turkey, approximately 12 km (7 mi) northeast of the city of Şanlıurfa. The tell has a height of 15 m (49 ft) and is about 300 m (980 ft) in diameter.[4] It is approximately 760 m (2,490 ft) above sea level.

The tell includes two phases of ritual use dating back to the 10th–8th millennium BCE. During the first phase, pre-pottery Neolithic A (PPNA), circles of massive T-shaped stone pillars were erected, the world's oldest known megaliths.[5] More than 200 pillars in about 20 circles are currently known through geophysical surveys. Each pillar has a height of up to 6 m (20 ft) and a weight of up to 20 tons. They are fitted into sockets that were hewn out of the bedrock.[6] In the second phase, Pre-Pottery Neolithic B (PPNB), the erected pillars are smaller and stood in rectangular rooms, also with floors of polished lime. The site was abandoned after the PPNB-period. Younger structures date to classical times.

The details of the structure's function remain a mystery. It was excavated by a German archaeological team under the direction of Klaus Schmidt from 1996 until his death in 2014; Schmidt believed that the sites were early neolithic sanctuaries used as a holy site and not used as a settlement.

Location Örencik, Şanlıurfa Province, Turkey
Region N/A
Coordinates 37°13′23″N 38°55′21″ECoordinates: 37°13′23″N 38°55′21″E
Type Sanctuary
History
Founded about 11,500 years ago
Abandoned about 9,000 yrs ago.
Periods Pre-Pottery Neolithic A to B
Site notes
Condition well preserved
Website references:[1]
read more at the site https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Göbekli_Tepe

 

[packyderms_wife]

Because the last ice age did not happen until 1000 years later (13,000. years ago) and it took much longer than that for most of the earths water to end up as snow and ice build up on land (12,000 or 11,000 years ago?), thus lowering the seas a little each year and exposing a ridge known as the Bering land bridge, this is located in the Bering sea in the Alaskan area.

They reject the idea that humans were smart enough to build rafts or other sea going craft and somehow end up in what whould later be known as North America.

IIRC there's a stretch in the atlantic that goes from South America over to Africa that's pretty shallow water. If the earth's oceans shrank that much then it seems logical that there was more than one land bridge. Ditto this the waters that go from Australia upwards towards Malaysia with all of those island chains along the way.

Lots to think about for sure.

 

[FaithfulSkeptic]

IIRC there's a stretch in the atlantic that goes from South America over to Africa that's pretty shallow water. If the earth's oceans shrank that much then it seems logical that there was more than one land bridge. Ditto this the waters that go from Australia upwards towards Malaysia with all of those island chains along the way.

Lots to think about for sure.

Don't think the oceans were that low, but certainly looked much different during the ice age. I don't recall, but I believe the oceans were only 300 ft lower or so.

Regardless, I don't believe the brain capacity or general ability of humans 14000 years ago was that much less than what we have today, and thus I'd have to believe that humans of that time would have enough ingenuity to meet their curiosities as well as needs, and thus water exploration probably wasn't uncommon.

Given the ability to track expansion via recent genome study, what have they found out about genetic ties between those in northeast Asian continent and those in Alaska? Any ties I wonder?

 

[packyderms_wife]

OK write a book about it if you are sure rather than posting on this forum if not keep it to yourself, your experiences are no more valid that anyone else's. write a book with substantial evidence that will be verified., otherwise shut up.................

I really enjoy Melodi's posts, yours not so much. Maybe you should be the one that shuts up!

 

[packyderms_wife]

Don't think the oceans were that low, but certainly looked much different during the ice age. I don't recall, but I believe the oceans were only 300 ft lower or so.

Regardless, I don't believe the brain capacity or general ability of humans 14000 years ago was that much less than what we have today, and thus I'd have to believe that humans of that time would have enough ingenuity to meet their curiosities as well as needs, and thus water exploration probably wasn't uncommon.

Given the ability to track expansion via recent genome study, what have they found out about genetic ties between those in northeast Asian continent and those in Alaska? Any ties I wonder?

They may not have been "dried up" but IIRC there is a stretch in the atlantic that sailors of old absolutely hated and the area was labeled the doldrums because the winds would die and not come back for weeks on end, and the water was shallow enough that many a huge ship would become stranded on sand bars.

So me thinks if you have enough of these areas across a big stretch of ocean then it wouldn't be impossible for people in smaller crafts, like small sail boats, to make the trek in a safe manner, with plenty of places to stop in between.

Just thinking out loud is all.

 

[Timber]

Wonder if they'll find any Coso Artifacts?
That will be interesting

 

[Melodi]

Another thing to remember with the genome studies of LIVING Native Americans is that scientists estimate that between 70 and 90 percent of the original population died directly or indirection from diseases introduced during the European migrations of the late 1400's and early 1500's.

The toll seems to have been especially high in North America (but was horrific everywhere) with settlers two hundred years later reporting vast swaths of what is now the US Southeast (Southern Mound builder areas) and even parts of the plains containing totally empty villages, long neglected but still standing with no one new having moved in to take over the property.

While there is a great deal of debate about just how many people lived in North America before the coming of the Europeans in the 1500's; the estimates are tending to go further up rather than down, meaning even more people died off than was realized.

From a recent book on the topic
"William M. Denevan writes that, "The discovery of America was followed by possibly the greatest demographic disaster in the history of the world." Research by some scholars provides population estimates of the pre-contact Americas to be as high as 112 million in 1492, while others estimate the population to have been as low as eight million. In any case, the native population declined to less than six million by 1650." from the Native Population of the Americas in 1492 https://uwpress.wisc.edu/books/0289.htm

If you take even a middle figure of say 80 million down to six million; that is still a heck of a lot of genetic lines lost to science that once lived in North American but now, no longer do.

Personally (and this time it IS my opinion) I have no problem accepting for example that perhaps everyone (or nearly everyone) alive today who is Native North American maybe related to one or two founder populations; but that doesn't mean that no other founder populations ever existed, it just means we won't find them by just testing living modern people.

However given the fact that MOST (not all but most) Native American tribes believe that it is taboo to mess with the dead, including excavating them (and this is partly tribal traditions and partly because of the horrific way such finds were treated during the 18th, 19th and early 20th centuries) it is unlikely a lot of testing can be done on ancient burial sites.

Sometimes a tribe will give permission especially for the stone age sites; others are going to see any disturbance of the dead as unacceptable, or if they are disturbed demand immediate reburial with full tribal funeral rites.

There have been a few really interesting things coming out from the skeletons that tribes HAVE given permission to look at (again usually very ancient graves) but a lot of it is somewhat contradictory and again My Opinion Only is this MAY be because there was more than one seriously population limiting/culling event that happened during prehistory. Some archeologists are already speculating that an asteroid strike or other natural disaster may have wiped out some (or even most) of the pre-Clovis era people; so again I'm not alone in this thinking as people who work in the field with the actual evidence have started wondering the same thing.

No one knows for certain yet, and it may never be known absolutely but I find this whole area a giant and amazing puzzle; again I am so glad we can now really look at ALL (or at least more) of the pieces.

 

[Terriannie]

Both ancient civilizations are very fascinating Melodi! You can see a few of the artifacts in the news link on the first one. (Smart looking fish hook, I'd say.)

http://vancouverisland.ctvnews.ca/1...358511#_gus&_gucid=&_gup=twitter&_gsc=CFUBl6c

I'll definitely have to check out the one in Turkey too!!

 

[packyderms_wife]

Melodi,

Have you read any of the fiction written by the Gears? http://www.gear-gear.com/

I always enjoy reading their notes and seeing works by some of my old anthropology and archaeology profs cited.

Thank you for the link!

 

[Flashyzipp]

Uh I think it is a matter of wording, Cahokia is the LARGEST CITY IN NORTH AMERICA so far discovered; it was a huge urban center with perhaps up to 1 million people living both in and around it; they had a standing army and amazing irrigation centers.

It was also mostly made of wood and only discovered because of the modern city of St. Louis being built on top of it; therefore there MAY have been other cities we have not found that simply were destroyed by time and the elements.

The big Ancient Cities we know about in the Americas are mostly in South America - there is one on the coast of Peru and the mountains of the Andes; they keep pushing back dates but some are at least 4,000 years old and there are a few that may be as old as 10,000. Stone is very hard to date (in terms of when it was used in a building) so unless rope, wood or other biological remains are found (or fire pits) dating gets dicey.

Thank you! I am fairly certain the main portion of Cahokia is across the river from St. Louis. There is 1 mound on the St. Louis side, but it is eroding and won't be there for much longer. I live not far from there and it fascinates me.

 

[packyderms_wife]

Thank you! I am fairly certain the main portion of Cahokia is across the river from St. Louis. There is 1 mound on the St. Louis side, but it is eroding and won't be there for much longer. I live not far from there and it fascinates me.

I've been there multiple times since I was a kid. From what family members wrote about the great quakes of 1811/12 there was even more mounds and they literally disappeared during the quake events, just like new lakes and ponds popped up and others disappeared.

 

[marsh]

GEDmatch.com is a DNA matching site. It has a portal to several ancient DNA projects where DNA has been taken from samples at various sites. I have DNA in common with several very old Siberia sites. I also have DNA in common with Clovis boy and Kennewick Man. Since I am reliably sure I have no NA or AmerIndian ancestry, I surmise that some of the Siberian folk split off to North America or split off in transit to Siberia.

 

[Publius]

Another thing to remember with the genome studies of LIVING Native Americans is that scientists estimate that between 70 and 90 percent of the original population died directly or indirection from diseases introduced during the European migrations of the late 1400's and early 1500's.

The toll seems to have been especially high in North America (but was horrific everywhere) with settlers two hundred years later reporting vast swaths of what is now the US Southeast (Southern Mound builder areas) and even parts of the plains containing totally empty villages, long neglected but still standing with no one new having moved in to take over the property.

While there is a great deal of debate about just how many people lived in North America before the coming of the Europeans in the 1500's; the estimates are tending to go further up rather than down, meaning even more people died off than was realized.

From a recent book on the topic
"William M. Denevan writes that, "The discovery of America was followed by possibly the greatest demographic disaster in the history of the world." Research by some scholars provides population estimates of the pre-contact Americas to be as high as 112 million in 1492, while others estimate the population to have been as low as eight million. In any case, the native population declined to less than six million by 1650." from the Native Population of the Americas in 1492 https://uwpress.wisc.edu/books/0289.htm

If you take even a middle figure of say 80 million down to six million; that is still a heck of a lot of genetic lines lost to science that once lived in North American but now, no longer do.

Personally (and this time it IS my opinion) I have no problem accepting for example that perhaps everyone (or nearly everyone) alive today who is Native North American maybe related to one or two founder populations; but that doesn't mean that no other founder populations ever existed, it just means we won't find them by just testing living modern people.

However given the fact that MOST (not all but most) Native American tribes believe that it is taboo to mess with the dead, including excavating them (and this is partly tribal traditions and partly because of the horrific way such finds were treated during the 18th, 19th and early 20th centuries) it is unlikely a lot of testing can be done on ancient burial sites.

Sometimes a tribe will give permission especially for the stone age sites; others are going to see any disturbance of the dead as unacceptable, or if they are disturbed demand immediate reburial with full tribal funeral rites.

There have been a few really interesting things coming out from the skeletons that tribes HAVE given permission to look at (again usually very ancient graves) but a lot of it is somewhat contradictory and again My Opinion Only is this MAY be because there was more than one seriously population limiting/culling event that happened during prehistory. Some archeologists are already speculating that an asteroid strike or other natural disaster may have wiped out some (or even most) of the pre-Clovis era people; so again I'm not alone in this thinking as people who work in the field with the actual evidence have started wondering the same thing.

No one knows for certain yet, and it may never be known absolutely but I find this whole area a giant and amazing puzzle; again I am so glad we can now really look at ALL (or at least more) of the pieces.

Yes Disease from early europeans visiting and the Spanish deliberately introduced a few, went like wildfire across the continent and nearly wiped out 1/2 or more of the native population.
One thing many may notice is most of the human habtation is on or near coastal areas and following along inland on rivers streams and streams, but always near water, fresh water is need to survive and waterways provide an abundance of wildlife.

 

[colonel holman]

Yes Disease from early europeans visiting and the Spanish deliberately introduced a few, went like wildfire across the continent and nearly wiped out 1/2 or more of the native population.
One thing many may notice is most of the human habtation is on or near coastal areas and following along inland on rivers streams and streams, but always near water, fresh water is need to survive and waterways provide an abundance of wildlife.

Some of us are old enough to recall that whenever an Apollo astronaut crew returned from the moon, they were put into airtight chamber immediately on board the recovery carrier for 10 days to make sure they did not pick up any unknown infectious organism on the moon that could have the same effect on modern earth humans as European infections had on native American populations in 1500. If astronauts or carrier crew did not show signs of illness, they were released. Prudent precaution for the time

 

[packyderms_wife]

Some of us are old enough to recall that whenever an Apollo astronaut crew returned from the moon, they were put into airtight chamber immediately on board the recovery carrier for 10 days to make sure they did not pick up any unknown infectious organism on the moon that could have the same effect on modern earth humans as European infections had on native American populations in 1500. If astronauts or carrier crew did not show signs of illness, they were released. Prudent precaution for the time

And some of us are old enough to remember that the russians did the same exact thing!

 

[colonel holman]

And some of us are old enough to remember that the russians did the same exact thing!

really, simply from earth orbit trips?

 

[packyderms_wife]

really, simply from earth orbit trips?

Yes, I've seen several documentaries about their first attempts to make it to the moon, etc., they're often available on Netflix, Hulu, and Amazon (Discovery Channel). It's amazing some of the experiments they conducted that the west never attempted.

 

[FarmerJohn]

....Anyway, I still remember you telling me about someone you knew on a dig site that dug up plastic dolls that were estimated to be some 4000-6000 years of age. Gee maybe someone lost her dollie in a massive flood?

Is this the letter that you're remembering?

Paleoanthropology Division
Smithsonian Institute
207 Pennsylvania Avenue
Washington, DC 20078
Dear Sir:

Thank you for your latest submission to the Institute, labeled “211-D, layer seven, next to the clothesline post. Hominid skull.” We have given this specimen a careful and detailed examination, and regret to inform you that we disagree with your theory that it represents “conclusive proof of the presence of Early Man in Charleston County two million years ago.” Rather, it appears that what you have found is the head of a Barbie doll, of the variety one of our staff, who has small children, believes to be the “Malibu Barbie”. It is evident that you have given a great deal of thought to the analysis of this specimen, and you may be quite certain that those of us who are familiar with your prior work in the field were loathe to come to contradiction with your findings. However, we do feel that there are a number of physical attributes of the specimen which might have tipped you off to it’s modern origin:

1. The material is molded plastic. Ancient hominid remains are typically fossilized bone.
2. The cranial capacity of the specimen is approximately 9 cubic centimeters, well below the threshold of even the earliest identified proto-hominids.
3. The dentition pattern evident on the “skull” is more consistent with the common domesticated dog than it is with the “ravenous man-eating Pliocene clams” you speculate roamed the wetlands during that time. This latter finding is certainly one of the most intriguing hypotheses you have submitted in your history with this institution, but the evidence seems to weigh rather heavily against it. Without going into too much detail, let us say that:

A. The specimen looks like the head of a Barbie doll that a dog has chewed on.
B. Clams don’t have teeth.

It is with feelings tinged with melancholy that we must deny your request to have the specimen carbon dated. This is partially due to the heavy load our lab must bear in it’s normal operation, and partly due to carbon dating’s notorious inaccuracy in fossils of recent geologic record. To the best of our knowledge, no Barbie dolls were produced prior to 1956 AD, and carbon dating is likely to produce wildly inaccurate results. Sadly, we must also deny your request that we approach the National Science Foundation’s Phylogeny Department with the concept of assigning your specimen the scientific name “Australopithecus spiff-arino.” Speaking personally, I, for one, fought tenaciously for the acceptance of your proposed taxonomy, but was ultimately voted down because the species name you selected was hyphenated, and didn’t really sound like it might be Latin.

However, we gladly accept your generous donation of this fascinating specimen to the museum. While it is undoubtedly not a hominid fossil, it is, nonetheless, yet another riveting example of the great body of work you seem to accumulate here so effortlessly. You should know that our Director has reserved a special shelf in his own office for the display of the specimens you have previously submitted to the Institution, and the entire staff speculates daily on what you will happen upon next in your digs at the site you have discovered in your back yard. We eagerly anticipate your trip to our nation’s capital that you proposed in your last letter, and several of us are pressing the Director to pay for it. We are particularly interested in hearing you expand on your theories surrounding the “trans-positating fillifitation of ferrous ions in a structural matrix” that makes the excellent juvenile Tyrannosaurus rex femur you recently discovered take on the deceptive appearance of a rusty 9-mm Sears Craftsman automotive crescent wrench.

Yours in Science,

Harvey Rowe
Curator, Antiquities

Apocryphal, but from multiple sources.

 

[packyderms_wife]

Is this the letter that you're remembering?



Apocryphal, but from multiple sources.

Thank you, yes I do believe that was the one. oh well...

 

[Hognutz]

OK write a book about it if you are sure rather than posting on this forum if not keep it to yourself, your experiences are no more valid that anyone else's. write a book with substantial evidence that will be verified., otherwise shut up.................

Dude, I appreciate her post. You a rude dude...You may need to "shut up"..

 

[packyderms_wife]

Watch a few episodes of South Pacific on Netflix, specifically episode 2.

Off to watch the series now, have a good rest of your evening!

 

[willowlady]

I know that melodi is a travel writer, I think she should start to promote her books etc to the general public rather than making out she has this great claim to other people's experiences, every post contains some sort of of someone else's verification of melodi's opinion, quite honestly that is the most arrogant opinion I have ever heard, but no doubt Melodi will have her defence

What seems to be your problem with Melodi? She posts based on personal experience and observations, and speculates about possibilities, but often backs up her posts with "outside" information. That's pretty much what everyone here does to some degree or another. If you disagree with her opinions, fine; but there is no need to be an asshole about it. She is as entitled to her point of view as you are. Go take a happy pill and lighten up. It's not like the subject is imminent WWIII.

 

[FaithfulSkeptic]

Off to watch the series now, have a good rest of your evening!

Let me know what you think about episode 2. I found it fascinating.

 

[Now-Later]

Wasn't there one researcher that believed they moved from Alaska to South America by boats in a swift progression

 

[packyderms_wife]

Let me know what you think about episode 2. I found it fascinating.

I'm half way through episode 2, beautiful creatures and I'll have plenty of nightmares with all of the salt water crocs, etc.!

 

[kytom]

Science evolves when the scientists holding the old outdated theories die off - and not before.

never looked at it that way!

 

[packyderms_wife]

Wasn't there one researcher that believed they moved from Alaska to South America by boats in a swift progression

IIRC he committed suicide in a hot tub with a shot gun blast to the back the head... which is a reminder to never piss off the powers that be they really resent their narrative being changed.

 

[packyderms_wife]

never looked at it that way!

Most don't, and with many of the baby boomers now starting to kick the proverbial bucket we'll start to see some major scientific leaps in the next ten to twenty years. Too many Gen X'ers are doubters of what the baby boomers and their predecessors espoused, that's if the damned marxists or muslimes don't get control first.

 

[TidesofTruth]

Agreed. This so-called archeology that's dominated the world stage needs to go the way of the dodo bird. There is still so much we don't know about planet earth. I'm still convinced that Noah and crew were living in a very modern society, why else would you mock someone for building an archaic craft? If they were all knuckle dragging cave men then no need to mock, but a very advanced society that believes it has no need for God and that their tech will save them? Those people I can see mocking Noah.

Anyway, I still remember you telling me about someone you knew on a dig site that dug up plastic dolls that were estimated to be some 4000-6000 years of age. Gee maybe someone lost her dollie in a massive flood?

Yep yep yep. I can date this civilization to 2348 BC or 4,359 years ago give or take 50 years and I guarantee that is much more accurate than these so call archeologists. And you are right. These people were probably at least as advanced as we were 100 years ago. Maybe more.

 

[ShadowMan]

OK write a book about it if you are sure rather than posting on this forum if not keep it to yourself, your experiences are no more valid that anyone else's. write a book with substantial evidence that will be verified., otherwise shut up.................

Jeeeze dude! Why so SNARKY!!

It is a lie and an injustice to think that our ancestors, no matter how far back in time, weren't as smart and capable as we are today. Do not EVER under estimate our ancestors. Their ability to survive in their world with what little they had is utterly amazing. Not only survive but thrive where 90% of the numbnuts today would sit down and die from sheer terror and fear. Those were some seriously tough people. They were our forefathers and foremothers. Tough SOB's in a wild world and to think they were stupid or primitive is an absolute lie and disservice to who they were.

 

[ShadowMan]

OK write a book about it if you are sure rather than posting on this forum if not keep it to yourself, your experiences are no more valid that anyone else's. write a book with substantial evidence that will be verified., otherwise shut up.................

Jeeeze dude! Why so SNARKY!!

It is a lie and an injustice to think that our ancestors, no matter how far back in time, weren't as smart and capable as we are today. Perhaps even more so!! Do not EVER under estimate our ancestors. Their ability to survive in their world with what little they had is utterly amazing. Not only survive but thrive where 90% of the numbnuts today would sit down and die from sheer terror and fear. Those were some seriously tough people, which is the reason that we're here today. They were our forefathers and foremothers. Tough SOB's in a wild world and to think they were stupid or primitive is an absolute disservice to who they were.

So if anyone should SHUT UP.....I'd say it is you pilgrim!! Oh....and by the way.....the earth is not flat.

 

[packyderms_wife]

Jeeeze dude! Why so SNARKY!!

It is a lie and an injustice to think that our ancestors, no matter how far back in time, weren't as smart and capable as we are today. Do not EVER under estimate our ancestors. Their ability to survive in their world with what little they had is utterly amazing. Not only survive but thrive where 90% of the numbnuts today would sit down and die from sheer terror and fear. Those were some seriously tough people. They were our forefathers and foremothers. Tough SOB's in a wild world and to think they were stupid or primitive is an absolute lie and disservice to who they were.

Agreed. On the surface level they may not have made much sense BUT they are the people whom we claim as ancestors!!!

 

[FaithfulSkeptic]

They may not have been "dried up" but IIRC there is a stretch in the atlantic that sailors of old absolutely hated and the area was labeled the doldrums because the winds would die and not come back for weeks on end, and the water was shallow enough that many a huge ship would become stranded on sand bars.

Are you perhaps thinking of the Sargaso Sea?

Aside from that, I think there were problems with shoals in areas of dense islands ( the Caribbean perhaps? ), but probably not so much out in the middle of the Atlantic. Now, when oceans were 300 ft. lower, I'm sure there were more little islands popping through in the Atlantic and the ones we see today were substantially larger, namely the Azores ... which is the origin of the Atlantis story. Many of the mid Atlantic areas, the then and now Azores notwithstanding, were also volcanic hot spots due to the mid-atlantic plate separation. Islands popping up for a couple years, then sinking again. A very unstable region. If more were poking through, I guess it would have made crossing a lot easier.

With respect to the Azores, here's an interesting article: http://atlantisrisingmagazine.com/article/atlantis-in-the-azores/

 

[packyderms_wife]

Are you perhaps thinking of the Sargaso Sea?

Aside from that, I think there were problems with shoals in areas of dense islands ( the Caribbean perhaps? ), but probably not so much out in the middle of the Atlantic. Now, when oceans were 300 ft. lower, I'm sure there were more little islands popping through in the Atlantic and the ones we see today were substantially larger, namely the Azores ... which is the origin of the Atlantis story. Many of the mid Atlantic areas, the then and now Azores notwithstanding, were also volcanic hot spots due to the mid-atlantic plate separation. Islands popping up for a couple years, then sinking again. A very unstable region. If more were poking through, I guess it would have made crossing a lot easier.

With respect to the Azores, here's an interesting article: http://atlantisrisingmagazine.com/article/atlantis-in-the-azores/

I did make it through episode two and I heard about those kingdoms in another documentary as well... western science is a blind flat chested bitch that doesn't want to recognize any one other than herself!

 

[Dozdoats]

More religion than science - heretics get burned at the stake.