I thought this was a current history thread?
Maybe there could be a history forum
ALERT RUSSIA INVADES UKRAINE - Consolidated Thread
- Thread starter danielboon
- Start date
Maybe there could be a history forum
like what the church thinks has ever been a priority
It sure is looking to me like Ukraine's big offensive is going to be their attack on russian Transnistria(SP?). The disappearance of tweets about it as well as cryptic utterances by some politicians like Lindsey Graham (puke) and elinsky cause me to believe this. I wouldn't be surprised if the Ukes show up with F-16s. There is also the shenanigans going on in the north and into Russia to try and draw Russian forces in that direction and away from Transnistria.
This leaves me wondering if Russia has air defenses like S-300s and S-400s in that area. Also do they have that warehouse wired for destruction? If Russia blows the warehouse you can bet Ukraine will claim that they destroyed it and that it's some big win.
This leaves me wondering if Russia has air defenses like S-300s and S-400s in that area. Also do they have that warehouse wired for destruction? If Russia blows the warehouse you can bet Ukraine will claim that they destroyed it and that it's some big win.
northern watch
TB Fanatic
Blinken Dismisses Calls For A Ceasefire, Says US Must Build Up Ukraine's Military
BY TYLER DURDENZERO HEDGE
SATURDAY, JUN 03, 2023 - 02:30 PM
Authored by Kyle Anzalone via AntiWar.com,
The Secretary of State called for Washington to continue to put militarism before diplomacy...
The US will focus its efforts on arming Ukraine and not attempting to bring the war to a negotiated settlement, America’s top diplomat said. Secretary of State Antony Blinken laid out a plan to massively expand Kiev’s military before talks begin.
In a speech delivered in Finland on Friday, Blinken stated, "The United States – together with our allies and partners – is firmly committed to supporting Ukraine’s defense today, tomorrow, for as long as it takes." He continued, "We believe the prerequisite for meaningful diplomacy and real peace is a stronger Ukraine, capable of deterring and defending against any future aggression."
Blinken dismissed the idea of even a temporary pause in the fighting. "Some countries will call for a ceasefire. And on the surface, that sounds sensible – attractive, even. After all, who doesn’t want warring parties to lay down their arms? Who doesn’t want the killing to stop?" He said. "But a ceasefire that simply freezes current lines in place and enables Putin to consolidate control over the territory he’s seized…It would legitimize Russia’s land grab. It would reward the aggressor and punish the victim."
The Secretary of State offered an ambitious vision of Kiev’s future military capabilities. "America and our allies are helping meet Ukraine’s needs on the current battlefield while developing a force that can deter and defend against aggression for years to come." He added, "That means helping build a Ukrainian military of the future, with long-term funding, a strong air force centered on modern combat aircraft, an integrated air and missile defense network, advanced tanks and armored vehicles, national capacity to produce ammunition, and the training and support to keep forces and equipment combat-ready."
It is unclear how long it would take to build the deterrence force envisioned by Blinken. American arms stockpiles are dwindling as Washington attempts to transfer Kiev enough military equipment to keep its army fighting. The US additionally has plans to significantly increase arms transfers to Taiwan.
Blinken claimed, "Our support for Ukraine hasn’t weakened our capabilities to meet potential threats from China or anywhere else – it’s strengthened them." In November, the Wall Street Journal reported, "US government and congressional officials fear the conflict in Ukraine is exacerbating a nearly $19 billion backlog of weapons bound for Taiwan, further delaying efforts to arm the island."
Additionally, the White House may not have the support it needs in the Capitol for such a massive military buildup in Ukraine. Blinken asserted that "in America, this support is bipartisan." However, at the beginning of May, Rep. Michael McCaul (R-TX), chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, said future support for Ukraine would be contingent on success in Kiev’s long-planned counteroffensive.
Since McCaul’s statement, Ukraine has slowly lost more territory to Russian forces, including Bakhmut. Zelensky committed endless resources to the city in a months-long battle despite the advice from his Western backers. The White House is now preparing for the counteroffensive to fail.
Washington’s strategy, as laid out by Blinken, calls for arming Ukraine and weakening Russia. "Russia is significantly worse off today than it was before its full-scale invasion of Ukraine – militarily, economically, geopolitically," he stated, adding, "President Putin has diminished Russian influence on every continent."
However, Gen. Christopher Cavoli, the commander of US European Command, told Congress in April that Moscow’s ground forces are "bigger today" than before Moscow launched its invasion of Ukraine last year.
While the White House has attempted to isolate the Kremlin, Moscow has weathered Western sanctions by developing relationships in the global south. On Friday, Russian officials met with prospective members of the BRICS coalition, including Saudi Arabia, Iran and the UAE. In September, Iran’s President Ebrahim Raisi said in a meeting with Putin, "The relationship between countries that are sanctioned by the US, such as Iran, Russia or other countries, can overcome many problems and issues and make them stronger."
Blinken justified the Biden administration’s commitment to a militaristic approach by claiming the White House attempted to engage the Kremlin in meaningful diplomacy before the invasion of Ukraine. "President Biden told President Putin that we were prepared to discuss our mutual security concerns – a message that I reaffirmed repeatedly – including in person, with Foreign Minister Lavrov." The Secretary of State continued, "We offered written proposals to reduce tensions. Together with our allies and partners, we used every forum to try to prevent war, from the NATO-Russia Council to the OSCE, from the UN to our direct channels."
In April 2022, Biden administration official Derek Chollet admitted that the White House refused to negotiate with the Kremlin on Putin’s core concern, Ukraine becoming a member of NATO. "We made clear to the Russians that we were willing to talk to them on issues that we thought were genuine concerns," Chollet said, adding that the administration didn’t think that "the future of Ukraine" was one of those issues and that its potential NATO membership was a "non-issue."
Blinken Dismisses Calls For A Ceasefire, Says US Must Build Up Ukraine's Military | ZeroHedge
ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com
Last edited:
Thunderbird
Veteran Member
I have a perfectly good .270 that I have only a small amount of Amo for. Corrected that today.
wait-n-see
Veteran Member
Russia Takes 5 Marinka Districts, Encircling Kupyansk, MSM: Ukr Army Enlists Untrained Draftees
Run time - 1:13:48
Jun 3, 2023
TIME STAMPS
- Battelfronts 00:00
- Tchetchens making inroads into rubble field Marinka 00:20
- The North - Kupiansk 04:20
- Northern front methodically being taken 10:35
- Big Serge: Overview of Bakhmut battle 14:25
- Wagner Russia's Swiss army knife 30:45
- Camouflage Jesus vs. Klitschko Kiev air raid shelters row 35:40
- Comouflage Jesus surprise offensive statements (Giiivveee me monnnneeyyy) 37:30
- The New Yorker article: From the Ukr frontline (desaster) 41:10
- Austin: Bejing no pickup da frickin fone 1:06:55
- Lula: US treats Russia like it treated Germany in Versailles 1:09:03
- US: launch the damn offensive already, Camouflage Jesus 1:10:58
northern watch
TB Fanatic
Chevauchée lite.........
With a millionman army, why ar they enlisting the untrained?
It appears that any "settlement" requires unconditional Russian surrender.Blinken Dismisses Calls For A Ceasefire, Says US Must Build Up Ukraine's Military
BY TYLER DURDEN
ZERO HEDGE
SATURDAY, JUN 03, 2023 - 02:30 PM
Authored by Kyle Anzalone via AntiWar.com,
The Secretary of State called for Washington to continue to put militarism before diplomacy...
The US will focus its efforts on arming Ukraine and not attempting to bring the war to a negotiated settlement, America’s top diplomat said. Secretary of State Antony Blinken laid out a plan to massively expand Kiev’s military before talks begin.
In a speech delivered in Finland on Friday, Blinken stated, "The United States – together with our allies and partners – is firmly committed to supporting Ukraine’s defense today, tomorrow, for as long as it takes." He continued, "We believe the prerequisite for meaningful diplomacy and real peace is a stronger Ukraine, capable of deterring and defending against any future aggression."
Blinken dismissed the idea of even a temporary pause in the fighting. "Some countries will call for a ceasefire. And on the surface, that sounds sensible – attractive, even. After all, who doesn’t want warring parties to lay down their arms? Who doesn’t want the killing to stop?" He said. "But a ceasefire that simply freezes current lines in place and enables Putin to consolidate control over the territory he’s seized…It would legitimize Russia’s land grab. It would reward the aggressor and punish the victim."
The Secretary of State offered an ambitious vision of Kiev’s future military capabilities. "America and our allies are helping meet Ukraine’s needs on the current battlefield while developing a force that can deter and defend against aggression for years to come." He added, "That means helping build a Ukrainian military of the future, with long-term funding, a strong air force centered on modern combat aircraft, an integrated air and missile defense network, advanced tanks and armored vehicles, national capacity to produce ammunition, and the training and support to keep forces and equipment combat-ready."
It is unclear how long it would take to build the deterrence force envisioned by Blinken. American arms stockpiles are dwindling as Washington attempts to transfer Kiev enough military equipment to keep its army fighting. The US additionally has plans to significantly increase arms transfers to Taiwan.
Blinken claimed, "Our support for Ukraine hasn’t weakened our capabilities to meet potential threats from China or anywhere else – it’s strengthened them." In November, the Wall Street Journal reported, "US government and congressional officials fear the conflict in Ukraine is exacerbating a nearly $19 billion backlog of weapons bound for Taiwan, further delaying efforts to arm the island."
Additionally, the White House may not have the support it needs in the Capitol for such a massive military buildup in Ukraine. Blinken asserted that "in America, this support is bipartisan." However, at the beginning of May, Rep. Michael McCaul (R-TX), chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, said future support for Ukraine would be contingent on success in Kiev’s long-planned counteroffensive.
Since McCaul’s statement, Ukraine has slowly lost more territory to Russian forces, including Bakhmut. Zelensky committed endless resources to the city in a months-long battle despite the advice from his Western backers. The White House is now preparing for the counteroffensive to fail.
Washington’s strategy, as laid out by Blinken, calls for arming Ukraine and weakening Russia. "Russia is significantly worse off today than it was before its full-scale invasion of Ukraine – militarily, economically, geopolitically," he stated, adding, "President Putin has diminished Russian influence on every continent."
However, Gen. Christopher Cavoli, the commander of US European Command, told Congress in April that Moscow’s ground forces are "bigger today" than before Moscow launched its invasion of Ukraine last year.
While the White House has attempted to isolate the Kremlin, Moscow has weathered Western sanctions by developing relationships in the global south. On Friday, Russian officials met with prospective members of the BRICS coalition, including Saudi Arabia, Iran and the UAE. In September, Iran’s President Ebrahim Raisi said in a meeting with Putin, "The relationship between countries that are sanctioned by the US, such as Iran, Russia or other countries, can overcome many problems and issues and make them stronger."
Blinken justified the Biden administration’s commitment to a militaristic approach by claiming the White House attempted to engage the Kremlin in meaningful diplomacy before the invasion of Ukraine. "President Biden told President Putin that we were prepared to discuss our mutual security concerns – a message that I reaffirmed repeatedly – including in person, with Foreign Minister Lavrov." The Secretary of State continued, "We offered written proposals to reduce tensions. Together with our allies and partners, we used every forum to try to prevent war, from the NATO-Russia Council to the OSCE, from the UN to our direct channels."
In April 2022, Biden administration official Derek Chollet admitted that the White House refused to negotiate with the Kremlin on Putin’s core concern, Ukraine becoming a member of NATO. "We made clear to the Russians that we were willing to talk to them on issues that we thought were genuine concerns," Chollet said, adding that the administration didn’t think that "the future of Ukraine" was one of those issues and that its potential NATO membership was a "non-issue."
Blinken Dismisses Calls For A Ceasefire, Says US Must Build Up Ukraine's Military | ZeroHedge
ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
It could happen . . .
Your complete and unconditional surrender to the Democrats and the New World Order is also required . . .
Last edited:
jed turtle
a brother in the Lord
Ya know, these faggots in the State Department are going to get their woke asses handed to them shortly, and probably get the rest of us nuclear killed as well. Probably a feature and not a bug a far as they are concerned.Blinken Dismisses Calls For A Ceasefire, Says US Must Build Up Ukraine's Military
BY TYLER DURDEN
ZERO HEDGE
SATURDAY, JUN 03, 2023 - 02:30 PM
Authored by Kyle Anzalone via AntiWar.com,
The Secretary of State called for Washington to continue to put militarism before diplomacy...
The US will focus its efforts on arming Ukraine and not attempting to bring the war to a negotiated settlement, America’s top diplomat said. Secretary of State Antony Blinken laid out a plan to massively expand Kiev’s military before talks begin.
In a speech delivered in Finland on Friday, Blinken stated, "The United States – together with our allies and partners – is firmly committed to supporting Ukraine’s defense today, tomorrow, for as long as it takes." He continued, "We believe the prerequisite for meaningful diplomacy and real peace is a stronger Ukraine, capable of deterring and defending against any future aggression."
Blinken dismissed the idea of even a temporary pause in the fighting. "Some countries will call for a ceasefire. And on the surface, that sounds sensible – attractive, even. After all, who doesn’t want warring parties to lay down their arms? Who doesn’t want the killing to stop?" He said. "But a ceasefire that simply freezes current lines in place and enables Putin to consolidate control over the territory he’s seized…It would legitimize Russia’s land grab. It would reward the aggressor and punish the victim."
The Secretary of State offered an ambitious vision of Kiev’s future military capabilities. "America and our allies are helping meet Ukraine’s needs on the current battlefield while developing a force that can deter and defend against aggression for years to come." He added, "That means helping build a Ukrainian military of the future, with long-term funding, a strong air force centered on modern combat aircraft, an integrated air and missile defense network, advanced tanks and armored vehicles, national capacity to produce ammunition, and the training and support to keep forces and equipment combat-ready."
It is unclear how long it would take to build the deterrence force envisioned by Blinken. American arms stockpiles are dwindling as Washington attempts to transfer Kiev enough military equipment to keep its army fighting. The US additionally has plans to significantly increase arms transfers to Taiwan.
Blinken claimed, "Our support for Ukraine hasn’t weakened our capabilities to meet potential threats from China or anywhere else – it’s strengthened them." In November, the Wall Street Journal reported, "US government and congressional officials fear the conflict in Ukraine is exacerbating a nearly $19 billion backlog of weapons bound for Taiwan, further delaying efforts to arm the island."
Additionally, the White House may not have the support it needs in the Capitol for such a massive military buildup in Ukraine. Blinken asserted that "in America, this support is bipartisan." However, at the beginning of May, Rep. Michael McCaul (R-TX), chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, said future support for Ukraine would be contingent on success in Kiev’s long-planned counteroffensive.
Since McCaul’s statement, Ukraine has slowly lost more territory to Russian forces, including Bakhmut. Zelensky committed endless resources to the city in a months-long battle despite the advice from his Western backers. The White House is now preparing for the counteroffensive to fail.
Washington’s strategy, as laid out by Blinken, calls for arming Ukraine and weakening Russia. "Russia is significantly worse off today than it was before its full-scale invasion of Ukraine – militarily, economically, geopolitically," he stated, adding, "President Putin has diminished Russian influence on every continent."
However, Gen. Christopher Cavoli, the commander of US European Command, told Congress in April that Moscow’s ground forces are "bigger today" than before Moscow launched its invasion of Ukraine last year.
While the White House has attempted to isolate the Kremlin, Moscow has weathered Western sanctions by developing relationships in the global south. On Friday, Russian officials met with prospective members of the BRICS coalition, including Saudi Arabia, Iran and the UAE. In September, Iran’s President Ebrahim Raisi said in a meeting with Putin, "The relationship between countries that are sanctioned by the US, such as Iran, Russia or other countries, can overcome many problems and issues and make them stronger."
Blinken justified the Biden administration’s commitment to a militaristic approach by claiming the White House attempted to engage the Kremlin in meaningful diplomacy before the invasion of Ukraine. "President Biden told President Putin that we were prepared to discuss our mutual security concerns – a message that I reaffirmed repeatedly – including in person, with Foreign Minister Lavrov." The Secretary of State continued, "We offered written proposals to reduce tensions. Together with our allies and partners, we used every forum to try to prevent war, from the NATO-Russia Council to the OSCE, from the UN to our direct channels."
In April 2022, Biden administration official Derek Chollet admitted that the White House refused to negotiate with the Kremlin on Putin’s core concern, Ukraine becoming a member of NATO. "We made clear to the Russians that we were willing to talk to them on issues that we thought were genuine concerns," Chollet said, adding that the administration didn’t think that "the future of Ukraine" was one of those issues and that its potential NATO membership was a "non-issue."
Blinken Dismisses Calls For A Ceasefire, Says US Must Build Up Ukraine's Military | ZeroHedge
ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
The problem with Foggy Bottom and inside the Beltway in general is that all these folks think they're all the smartest people in the room and even if they find out that they're only playing checkers when in fact the game on the table is a combination of multiple chess boards and poker games they still insist they know what they're doing.....
onetimer
Veteran Member
Ut-oh
Not only Russian propagandists, but politicians started publicly declaring that the invasion of Ukraine is pointless. The first deputy chairman of the committee of the State Duma for the CIS members states that not a single goal of Russian "special military operation" was achieved and some of them are nonsense
View: https://twitter.com/s_hnizdovskyi/status/1665056781830172679?t=z4qil1_gPjCOhUHU5Omt1A&s=19
Not only Russian propagandists, but politicians started publicly declaring that the invasion of Ukraine is pointless. The first deputy chairman of the committee of the State Duma for the CIS members states that not a single goal of Russian "special military operation" was achieved and some of them are nonsense
View: https://twitter.com/s_hnizdovskyi/status/1665056781830172679?t=z4qil1_gPjCOhUHU5Omt1A&s=19
"Uh oh" indeed!
That is the problem for Ukraine - Russia uses strategic bombers - Ukraine hobby drones - This only ends one way.
Only if Putin breaks out the "canned sunshine", elsewise it's the current situaiton and even if it becomes the "war of the flea".
Knoxville's Joker
Has No Life - Lives on TB
The conclusion was from some deep diving on the wars. During theNapoleonic wars we saw the industrial revolution unflold. Some indicators were that war were a contributor to that devlopment. The other factor was that there was a rapid development in arms as a result of war as the artillery design and guns used changed significantly to a more managable unit from a cannon using cannon balls to a artillery gun using shells. The Napoleonic wars basically saw the move away from black powder based arms to cartridge based ammunition(significantly lighter and more mobile.) Below is the closest I could find on things but above is basically my conclusion on the Napoleonic wars and economic development
How British Gun Manufacturers Changed the Industrial World Lock, Stock and Barrel
In ‘Empire of Guns,’ historian Priya Satia explores the microcosm of firearm manufacturing through an unlikely subject—a Quaker family
www.smithsonianmag.com
The Prussian wars was more about being logistics specifically trains being the centerpiece of winning. Germany had optimized the trains for war, the French had not. The other note in the Prussian wars is it established the borders Germany now has and set it up as an empire. France was also behind technoclogicaly with bronze instead of steel barrels on some of their weapons. Germany basically had the upper hand, but the core of things with the inferior artillery equipment getting knocked out first thanks to them listening to their (spies unlike the french), the French were basically screwed by being stuck to using small arms at that point. The cartridge based ammunition was also easier to carry as it was to load as most militaries were mostly converted at this point if memory serves, the partial refitting means that black powder weapons were retrofitted to handle cartridge based ammunition, but most of those had been in the process of being phased out to new cartridge based rifles.
What were the logistics of warfare during the Franco-Prussian War?
Answer (1 of 3): To paraphrase Hilaire Belloc “The Prussians had trains and the French had not”. Obviously that’s not completely true, the French did have trains, but they did not have a railway system optimised for war like the German states did. The French had a civilian railway system that f...
WW1 is where the real manufacturing issues came in as by that point everyone or nearly everyone was converted over the cartridge based ammunition. It also caused a lot of standardization amongst militaries. The core issue was with the shell based ammunition used in artillery now they were literally able to consume their entire inventory of artillery shells in hours or days and everyone was outcompeting eachother to stay ahead of the other in terms of manufacturing as the industrial revolution was completed, but still wartime manufacturing was needed to provide the production levels needed.
War of the (Manufacturing) Machines, 1916
Reported in Scientific American, this Week in World War I: December 23, 1916
WW2 was WW1 on steroids from a manufacturing perspective. Germany still used horses for the military at this point. Germany specifically first invated neighbooring countries for resources. IT was also a technological war as no one could match the U-571 boats until about the 70s or so on what they had managed to do with the extreme engineering and functionality of some parts, doors that could swing closed with one person easily and seal being perfectly balanced. Had Germany focused on the smaller tanks(instead of the mous), the Sturmgewehr for the standard infantry rifle(which was the precursor to most modern rifles), and waited to invade russia by 1-2 years, they would have won hands down. Germany's core issue was access to resources to manufacture more for the coming war effort. The US had resources in spades and without them Russia would have lost, along with Brittain and everyone else, and without US manufacturing Germany would also have won, and the US biggest issue throughout the war was logistics thanks to the efforts of the uboats taking out so many merchant ships moving supplies to europe and the pacific.
Or at least that is what I can recall at this point from previous readings on things.
Very good!!!The conclusion was from some deep diving on the wars. During theNapoleonic wars we saw the industrial revolution unflold. Some indicators were that war were a contributor to that devlopment. The other factor was that there was a rapid development in arms as a result of war as the artillery design and guns used changed significantly to a more managable unit from a cannon using cannon balls to a artillery gun using shells. The Napoleonic wars basically saw the move away from black powder based arms to cartridge based ammunition(significantly lighter and more mobile.) Below is the closest I could find on things but above is basically my conclusion on the Napoleonic wars and economic development
How British Gun Manufacturers Changed the Industrial World Lock, Stock and Barrel
In ‘Empire of Guns,’ historian Priya Satia explores the microcosm of firearm manufacturing through an unlikely subject—a Quaker family
The Prussian wars was more about being logistics specifically trains being the centerpiece of winning. Germany had optimized the trains for war, the French had not. The other note in the Prussian wars is it established the borders Germany now has and set it up as an empire. France was also behind technoclogicaly with bronze instead of steel barrels on some of their weapons. Germany basically had the upper hand, but the core of things with the inferior artillery equipment getting knocked out first thanks to them listening to their (spies unlike the french), the French were basically screwed by being stuck to using small arms at that point. The cartridge based ammunition was also easier to carry as it was to load as most militaries were mostly converted at this point if memory serves, the partial refitting means that black powder weapons were retrofitted to handle cartridge based ammunition, but most of those had been in the process of being phased out to new cartridge based rifles.
What were the logistics of warfare during the Franco-Prussian War?
Answer (1 of 3): To paraphrase Hilaire Belloc “The Prussians had trains and the French had not”. Obviously that’s not completely true, the French did have trains, but they did not have a railway system optimised for war like the German states did. The French had a civilian railway system that f...www.quora.com
WW1 is where the real manufacturing issues came in as by that point everyone or nearly everyone was converted over the cartridge based ammunition. It also caused a lot of standardization amongst militaries. The core issue was with the shell based ammunition used in artillery now they were literally able to consume their entire inventory of artillery shells in hours or days and everyone was outcompeting eachother to stay ahead of the other in terms of manufacturing as the industrial revolution was completed, but still wartime manufacturing was needed to provide the production levels needed.
War of the (Manufacturing) Machines, 1916
Reported in Scientific American, this Week in World War I: December 23, 1916blogs.scientificamerican.com
WW2 was WW1 on steroids from a manufacturing perspective. Germany still used horses for the military at this point. Germany specifically first invated neighbooring countries for resources. IT was also a technological war as no one could match the U-571 boats until about the 70s or so on what they had managed to do with the extreme engineering and functionality of some parts, doors that could swing closed with one person easily and seal being perfectly balanced. Had Germany focused on the smaller tanks(instead of the mous), the Sturmgewehr for the standard infantry rifle(which was the precursor to most modern rifles), and waited to invade russia by 1-2 years, they would have won hands down. Germany's core issue was access to resources to manufacture more for the coming war effort. The US had resources in spades and without them Russia would have lost, along with Brittain and everyone else, and without US manufacturing Germany would also have won, and the US biggest issue throughout the war was logistics thanks to the efforts of the uboats taking out so many merchant ships moving supplies to europe and the pacific.
Or at least that is what I can recall at this point from previous readings on things.
Knoxville's Joker
Has No Life - Lives on TB
In the end my conclusion is history is bloody repeating itself and the self procreating offspring of unwed mother morons in charge are forgetting the lessons of their forefathers...
northern watch
TB Fanatic
German fleet boats were about obsolete by the end of WW2. U-571 was a great movie but it wasn’t the reality. There was a very late model that Germany produced that influenced both Allied and particularly Soviet designs. IIRC they didnt see much service with the Germans due to structural and manufacturing issues.The conclusion was from some deep diving on the wars. During theNapoleonic wars we saw the industrial revolution unflold. Some indicators were that war were a contributor to that devlopment. The other factor was that there was a rapid development in arms as a result of war as the artillery design and guns used changed significantly to a more managable unit from a cannon using cannon balls to a artillery gun using shells. The Napoleonic wars basically saw the move away from black powder based arms to cartridge based ammunition(significantly lighter and more mobile.) Below is the closest I could find on things but above is basically my conclusion on the Napoleonic wars and economic development
How British Gun Manufacturers Changed the Industrial World Lock, Stock and Barrel
In ‘Empire of Guns,’ historian Priya Satia explores the microcosm of firearm manufacturing through an unlikely subject—a Quaker family
The Prussian wars was more about being logistics specifically trains being the centerpiece of winning. Germany had optimized the trains for war, the French had not. The other note in the Prussian wars is it established the borders Germany now has and set it up as an empire. France was also behind technoclogicaly with bronze instead of steel barrels on some of their weapons. Germany basically had the upper hand, but the core of things with the inferior artillery equipment getting knocked out first thanks to them listening to their (spies unlike the french), the French were basically screwed by being stuck to using small arms at that point. The cartridge based ammunition was also easier to carry as it was to load as most militaries were mostly converted at this point if memory serves, the partial refitting means that black powder weapons were retrofitted to handle cartridge based ammunition, but most of those had been in the process of being phased out to new cartridge based rifles.
What were the logistics of warfare during the Franco-Prussian War?
Answer (1 of 3): To paraphrase Hilaire Belloc “The Prussians had trains and the French had not”. Obviously that’s not completely true, the French did have trains, but they did not have a railway system optimised for war like the German states did. The French had a civilian railway system that f...
WW1 is where the real manufacturing issues came in as by that point everyone or nearly everyone was converted over the cartridge based ammunition. It also caused a lot of standardization amongst militaries. The core issue was with the shell based ammunition used in artillery now they were literally able to consume their entire inventory of artillery shells in hours or days and everyone was outcompeting eachother to stay ahead of the other in terms of manufacturing as the industrial revolution was completed, but still wartime manufacturing was needed to provide the production levels needed.
War of the (Manufacturing) Machines, 1916
Reported in Scientific American, this Week in World War I: December 23, 1916
WW2 was WW1 on steroids from a manufacturing perspective. Germany still used horses for the military at this point. Germany specifically first invated neighbooring countries for resources. IT was also a technological war as no one could match the U-571 boats until about the 70s or so on what they had managed to do with the extreme engineering and functionality of some parts, doors that could swing closed with one person easily and seal being perfectly balanced. Had Germany focused on the smaller tanks(instead of the mous), the Sturmgewehr for the standard infantry rifle(which was the precursor to most modern rifles), and waited to invade russia by 1-2 years, they would have won hands down. Germany's core issue was access to resources to manufacture more for the coming war effort. The US had resources in spades and without them Russia would have lost, along with Brittain and everyone else, and without US manufacturing Germany would also have won, and the US biggest issue throughout the war was logistics thanks to the efforts of the uboats taking out so many merchant ships moving supplies to europe and the pacific.
Or at least that is what I can recall at this point from previous readings on things.
Knoxville's Joker
Has No Life - Lives on TB
I talked with some in laws that were in the navy in subs. Plus friends and there were mentions on some of the engineering germany did on their stuff that took us a while to match.
Yeah, the Type XXI, XXII, XXIII and XXVII boats were real jumps over the prior generation of subs.
Hummm.......
Posted for fair use.....
/cloudfront-us-east-2.images.arcpublishing.com/reuters/7K6Q4XEEWFK2RCJ3QGWD7GE724.jpg)
www.reuters.com
June 3, 2023 7:53 PM PDT Updated 35 min ago
KYIV, June 4 (Reuters) - Russia launched a wave of air attacks on Ukraine early on Sunday, with air defence systems repelling all missiles and drones on their approach to Kyiv, the capital's military officials said.
"According to preliminary information, not a single air target reached the capital," Serhiy Popko, the head of the military administration, said on the Telegram messaging app early on Sunday.
"Air defence destroyed everything that was heading towards the city already at their distant approaches."
Reuters could not independently verify the report.
Russia has repeatedly attacked Kyiv since May, chiefly at night, ahead of a long-expected Ukrainian counteroffensive to reclaim territory, in what Ukrainian officials say is an attempt to inflict psychological distress on civilians.
Reuters witnesses reported hearing several blasts in the Kyiv region, but not in the city, from what sounded like air defence systems hitting targets.
All of Ukraine was under air raid alerts for nearly three hours.
There were unverified Ukrainian social media reports of blasts heard in Kryvyi Rih in southern Ukraine, near the central city of Kropyvnitskyi and in the northeastern region of Sumy. There was no immediate official information about the reports.
Reporting by Gleb Garanich in Kyiv and Lidia Kelly in Melbourne; Editing by Daniel Wallis and William Mallard
Posted for fair use.....
Russia's air attack repelled on approach to Kyiv, Ukraine says
Russia launched a wave of air attacks on Ukraine early on Sunday, with air defence systems repelling all missiles and drones on their approach to Kyiv, the capital's military officials said.
www.reuters.com
Russia's air attack repelled on approach to Kyiv, Ukraine says
ReutersJune 3, 2023 7:53 PM PDT Updated 35 min ago
KYIV, June 4 (Reuters) - Russia launched a wave of air attacks on Ukraine early on Sunday, with air defence systems repelling all missiles and drones on their approach to Kyiv, the capital's military officials said.
"According to preliminary information, not a single air target reached the capital," Serhiy Popko, the head of the military administration, said on the Telegram messaging app early on Sunday.
"Air defence destroyed everything that was heading towards the city already at their distant approaches."
Reuters could not independently verify the report.
Russia has repeatedly attacked Kyiv since May, chiefly at night, ahead of a long-expected Ukrainian counteroffensive to reclaim territory, in what Ukrainian officials say is an attempt to inflict psychological distress on civilians.
Reuters witnesses reported hearing several blasts in the Kyiv region, but not in the city, from what sounded like air defence systems hitting targets.
All of Ukraine was under air raid alerts for nearly three hours.
There were unverified Ukrainian social media reports of blasts heard in Kryvyi Rih in southern Ukraine, near the central city of Kropyvnitskyi and in the northeastern region of Sumy. There was no immediate official information about the reports.
Reporting by Gleb Garanich in Kyiv and Lidia Kelly in Melbourne; Editing by Daniel Wallis and William Mallard
Hummm.....
Posted for fair use.....
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www.reuters.com
June 3, 2023 6:41 AM PDT Updated 14 hours ago
That row had now been settled but infighting in the Kremlin had opened a Pandora's Box of rifts, he said.
Prigozhin, a 62-year-old former restauranteur who founded the Wagner mercenary group and is a member of President Vladimir Putin's wider circle, has gained widespread notoriety during the 15-month war in Ukraine.
His troops have spearheaded battles in the city of Bakhmut and elsewhere, but he has also rowed with the Russian military over tactics, logistical support and other issues.
Prigozhin said a dispute between him and Chechen forces who are also fighting alongside the Russian army in Ukraine had been resolved. But he laid the blame for the discord on unidentified Kremlin factions - which he calls "Kremlin towers".
Their scheming had got so out of hand that Putin had been forced to scold them at a Security Council meeting, he said.
"Pandora's Box is already open - we are not the ones who opened it," Prigozhin said in a message posted by his press service. "Some Kremlin tower decided to play dangerous games."
"Dangerous games have become commonplace in the Kremlin towers...they are simply destroying the Russian state."
He did not identify the Kremlin faction but said that it continued its attempts to sow discord, it would have "hell to pay". The Kremlin did not comment on his remarks.
Putin held a Security Council meeting of Friday about what he said were "interethnic" relations inside the country.
Prigozhin said Chechen remarks made about him sounded like something out of the early 1990s when conflicts gripped Russian cities after the collapse of the Soviet Union.
"Clearly the statements made were rather provocative, aimed at hurting me and freaking me out," Prigozhin said.
Prigozhin also said any battle between Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov's Akhmat special forces and Wagner would result in serious bloodshed but there was no doubt who would win.
He also again vented his anger about the current state of the war and the culpability of Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu and Chief of the General Staff Valery Gerasimov.
"The ministry of defence is not in a state to do anything at all as it de-facto doesn't exist - it is in chaos," Prigozhin said.
The defence ministry did not respond to a request for comment. Niether Shoigu nor Gerasimov have commented in public about Prigozhin's comments.
Reporting by Guy Faulconbridge; Editing by Angus MacSwan
Posted for fair use.....
Prigozhin says Kremlin factions are destroying the Russian state
Russian mercenary leader Yevgeny Prigozhin said on Saturday that Kremlin factions were destroying the state by trying to sow discord between him and Chechen fighters.
www.reuters.com
Prigozhin says Kremlin factions are destroying the Russian state
By Guy FaulconbridgeJune 3, 2023 6:41 AM PDT Updated 14 hours ago
- Summary
- Prigozhin: conflict with Chechens settled
- Prigozhin: Kremlin factions endanger the state
- Says defence ministry is in chaos
- Wagner may go to Belgorod region - Prigozhin
That row had now been settled but infighting in the Kremlin had opened a Pandora's Box of rifts, he said.
Prigozhin, a 62-year-old former restauranteur who founded the Wagner mercenary group and is a member of President Vladimir Putin's wider circle, has gained widespread notoriety during the 15-month war in Ukraine.
His troops have spearheaded battles in the city of Bakhmut and elsewhere, but he has also rowed with the Russian military over tactics, logistical support and other issues.
Prigozhin said a dispute between him and Chechen forces who are also fighting alongside the Russian army in Ukraine had been resolved. But he laid the blame for the discord on unidentified Kremlin factions - which he calls "Kremlin towers".
Their scheming had got so out of hand that Putin had been forced to scold them at a Security Council meeting, he said.
"Pandora's Box is already open - we are not the ones who opened it," Prigozhin said in a message posted by his press service. "Some Kremlin tower decided to play dangerous games."
"Dangerous games have become commonplace in the Kremlin towers...they are simply destroying the Russian state."
He did not identify the Kremlin faction but said that it continued its attempts to sow discord, it would have "hell to pay". The Kremlin did not comment on his remarks.
Putin held a Security Council meeting of Friday about what he said were "interethnic" relations inside the country.
Prigozhin said Chechen remarks made about him sounded like something out of the early 1990s when conflicts gripped Russian cities after the collapse of the Soviet Union.
"Clearly the statements made were rather provocative, aimed at hurting me and freaking me out," Prigozhin said.
Prigozhin also said any battle between Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov's Akhmat special forces and Wagner would result in serious bloodshed but there was no doubt who would win.
He also again vented his anger about the current state of the war and the culpability of Defence Minister Sergei Shoigu and Chief of the General Staff Valery Gerasimov.
"The ministry of defence is not in a state to do anything at all as it de-facto doesn't exist - it is in chaos," Prigozhin said.
The defence ministry did not respond to a request for comment. Niether Shoigu nor Gerasimov have commented in public about Prigozhin's comments.
Reporting by Guy Faulconbridge; Editing by Angus MacSwan
KJ, you might want to augment your very good information summary with a reading of Big Serge's substack column. (He only publishes something every couple of weeks but everything I've read of his work has been well-researched and he's an outstanding writer as well as military historian IMO). He's written his entire columns of substack submissions on the history of battle maneuver and innovations done by outstanding people throughout history, but he also documents their ultimate failures as well as properly crediting them with what radical ideas they were implementing during their time.
He has done this work through the development of modern Euro-Asian warfare techniques through to the present war in Ukraine. His latest work - a postmortem of the 9-month Battle of Bakhmut - is very long but an outstanding read.
I know we're supposed to post the full article but it would take several posts to completely include it all, plus some very large graphics showing the different orders of battle (and the corresponding units) in their proper time of insertion into the theatre. It's the most rational work I've read so far about this battle - a refreshing change from the work of some emo who must think he's the second coming of Jim Carrey.
Everyone please cut me some slack for just including the link to his latest article (and to all his previous ones which can be freely accessed):
The Battle of Bakhmut: Postmortem
Knoxville's Joker
Has No Life - Lives on TB
It is a long article. Loooong. I think there was an underestimation. I think it was more Russia realized Bakhmut would be an easy meat grinder of AFU personell. The other factor is if any of the convicts survived and moved up to professional level forces, Russia gained more than Ukraine may have. You only get veterans from having combat survivors. If ukraine lost a majority or a bulk of veterans in their forces, that is something that can not be quickly rebuilt. Given the lies and bias on both sides and drivel of news articles it will be decades before we get a closer picture to the truth. And i got strong suspicions there will be wholesale destruction of any proof of wrong doing and loses so the winner or loser can make up whatever story that they want.
Good pickups. There was a lot of killing about to happen (the Styx reference) but I think the reference to Prighozin and Wagner was pretty tongue-in-cheek. I guess that was a historian-level joke or something.
And as usual, the winners get to write the history. I did like the way he worked through the casualty numbers even though he was grumbling about having to do it that way. I bet those are about as close of numbers as we'll see until the histories are written.
onetimer
Veteran Member
Getting closer
BREAKING:
The Polish Volunteer Corps has published pictures, confirming it participated in the first armed raid into the Belgorod region, Russia, together with the Russian Volunteer Corps
Russian soldiers claimed earlier they heard some of the enemies communicating in Polish
View: https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1665221069395877888?t=agFtoOL3jLp6ZX6ml-5-nA&s=19
BREAKING:
The Polish Volunteer Corps has published pictures, confirming it participated in the first armed raid into the Belgorod region, Russia, together with the Russian Volunteer Corps
Russian soldiers claimed earlier they heard some of the enemies communicating in Polish
View: https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1665221069395877888?t=agFtoOL3jLp6ZX6ml-5-nA&s=19
Cedar Lake
Connecticut Yankee
Thanks for posting the link. I'll cut the slack ''rope'' immediately.
Freedom of information is the mark of an adult society.
Cedar Lake
Connecticut Yankee
NATO membership appears to be later, some other time.
View: https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1665016703015612417
View: https://twitter.com/SamRamani2/status/1665016703015612417
Cedar Lake
Connecticut Yankee
Estonia opposed Ukraine's accession to NATO
Ukraine cannot join NATO while it is in conflict, Estonian Prime Minister Kaja Kallas said at a security forum in Singapore.
She noted that the North Atlantic Alliance following the summit in Vilnius will support the aspirations of Kiev.
t.me
Ukraine cannot join NATO while it is in conflict, Estonian Prime Minister Kaja Kallas said at a security forum in Singapore.
She noted that the North Atlantic Alliance following the summit in Vilnius will support the aspirations of Kiev.
Slavyangrad
Estonia opposed Ukraine's accession to NATO Ukraine cannot join NATO while it is in conflict, Estonian Prime Minister Kaja Kallas said at a security forum in Singapore. She noted that the North Atlantic Alliance following the summit in Vilnius will support the aspirations of Kiev. Join...
t.me
Cedar Lake
Connecticut Yankee
Similar report on Slavyangrad Telegram.
Polish mercenaries from the so-called. "Polish Volunteer Corps" also took part in the attack on the Belgorod region on May 22.
This follows from the videos published on the channel of this formation of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, where Polish speech is heard.
Also earlier, the wife of the commander of the local self-defense, Yuri Gaevoy, who was shot during the raid, stated that she was being held hostage by the Poles and the Americans
Slavyangrad
❗️Polish mercenaries from the so-called. "Polish Volunteer Corps" also took part in the attack on the Belgorod region on May 22. This follows from the videos published on the channel of this formation of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, where Polish speech is heard. Also earlier, the wife of the...
t.me
Slavyangrad
t.me
Slavyangrad
t.me
Slavyangrad
t.me