CORONA Main Coronavirus thread
- Thread starter Heliobas Disciple
- Start date
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Jackpine Savage
Veteran Member
Most states have a plan A.
Here's Minnesota's pandemic ethics plan: https://www.health.state.mn.us/communities/ep/surge/crisis/panethics.html
Uh, what about lack of test kits, an' most likely, inability to perform needed autopsy's an' appropriate lab work? Lookin' at their system, they'd be better off with th' Three Stooges running things...
OA
jward
passin' thru
uh- what passes for good news, I reckon?
China Daily
@ChinaDaily
3m
Expert: Patient recovered from the novel #coronavirus will have temporary antibodies, and is unlikely to get infected by the virus again in at least half a year or longer.
View: https://twitter.com/ChinaDaily/status/1224509560469110784?s=20
China Daily
@ChinaDaily
3m
Expert: Patient recovered from the novel #coronavirus will have temporary antibodies, and is unlikely to get infected by the virus again in at least half a year or longer.
View: https://twitter.com/ChinaDaily/status/1224509560469110784?s=20
Get th' course work, and work with th' teachers/admins. Better to take finals, than get somethin' terminal...
OA
blackjeep
The end times are here.
Looks to me like that could be a HUGE mass grave.
jward
passin' thru
kleenex human interest story time
Sky News
@SkyNews
2h
Coronavirus: Thousands of abandoned pets 'at risk of starving to death'
Sky News
@SkyNews
2h
Coronavirus: Thousands of abandoned pets 'at risk of starving to death'
MinnesotaSmith
Membership Revoked
Walking Through SFO Currently 'Like Stepping Into a Contagion Movie'; Expect Six-Hour Customs Lines
Unless you have Mobile Passport and other enhancements, and especially if you're arriving from Asia, the customs situation for international travelers at SFO is currently lengthy and scary and straight out of contagion-disaster films.
sfist.com
JAY BARMANN
Walking Through SFO Currently 'Like Stepping Into a Contagion Movie'; Expect Six-Hour Customs Lines
You all remember Contagion, right? The 2011 Steven Soderbergh film starring Kate Winslet, Jude Law, and Gwyneth Paltrow about a global pandemic that was shot partly in San Francisco? Well, fiction becomes fact all too quickly as fears of the deadly — but not yet more deadly than some influenzas — Wuhan coronavirus have prompted the federal government to order flights from China to be rerouted through 11 specific "screener airports," with SFO being one of them.
Surgical masks abound and full hazmat attire can now reportedly be seen at San Francisco International Airport, as CDC medical personnel are screening all passengers arriving from China, and ordering quarantines in many cases for any traveler who has been to the Hubei province of China in the last two weeks.
As one friend of SFist said on Facebook Sunday night, after arriving from Europe and going through customs, "Holy shit, arriving at SFO is like stepping into a contagion movie. What a scary mess."
Another friend arriving from London Sunday evening also posted an Instagram story showing a lengthy customs line of people all wearing masks.
A Twitter user at SFO Monday afternoon just posted that he avoided "a ~800 person customs line" thanks to Mobile Passport. And another posting Sunday night said that his four-hour and 15-minute layover was not enough to get through the extraordinary customs-screening situation. "Do not travel through [SFO]," Twitterer @Cole_1107 writes. "Avoid at all costs. Expect customs lines of 6 hours plus."
Jordan Pierson@jordanapierson
https://twitter.com/jordanapierson/status/1224468957333094401
Corona Virus chaos at SFO customs. ~800 person line dodged with mobile passport
https://twitter.com/intent/like?tweet_id=1224468957333094401
5:05 PM - Feb 3, 2020
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Cole@cole_1107
https://twitter.com/cole_1107/status/1224105636406820864
Do not travel through @flySFO Avoid at all costs. Expect custom lines of 6 hours plus
1
5:01 PM - Feb 2, 2020
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Batuhan Yildirim@yildirimbatuhan
https://twitter.com/yildirimbatuhan/status/1224225293017042944
6+ hours to clear the customs in SFO due to travel history check for #coronavirus Still waiting for my mom from Istanbul, absolutely mental :/
https://twitter.com/intent/like?tweet_id=1224225293017042944
12:57 AM - Feb 3, 2020
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The SF Chronicle also spoke to several passengers who reported customs lines of two to six hours on Sunday. All travelers from China are being asked to fill out questionnaires detailing all of their travel, and they are being screened by CDC personnel taking their temperature and inquiring about other symptoms. Anyone feeling sick, the CDC says, should stay in the customs area and not got to the on-site medical clinic at SFO.
On Friday, President Trump ordered more tight restrictions for foreign nationals arriving from China, and as he said in a weekend interview with Fox News, "We pretty much shut it down coming in from China. But we can’t have thousands of people coming in who may have this problem, the coronavirus. We’re going to see what happens, but we did shut it down, yes."
One American foreign exchange student who traveled back through LAX from China over the weekend told the tale of his ordeal to The New York Times today. As the Times notes, he's among thousands of foreign-exchange students who are now caught in this health crisis. And, "Because of the nature of their studies, often embedded with families across China, some of them are hundreds of miles from a consulate or embassy. Many students have had to find their own way from far-flung cities to major airports for the return home."
According to this dynamic map of the virus's spread from Johns Hopkins University, the vast majority of cases of the virus remain in mainland China, with nearly 17,500 confirmed as of Monday. There are now 11 confirmed cases in the U.S., including three new ones in California confirmed since Friday. Two of those individuals, a husband and wife from San Benito County who appear to have had person-to-person transmission, have been transferred to Zuckerberg SF General Hospital for treatment."
Posted for fair use.....
apnews.com
China virus death toll rises to 425, total cases now 20,438
By KEN MORITSUGU
an hour ago
BEIJING (AP) — The death toll in mainland China from the new type of virus has risen to 425, with the total number of cases now standing at 20,438, officials said Tuesday.
The new figures come after the country opened a new hospital built in 10 days, infused cash into tumbling financial markets and further restricted people’s movement in hopes of containing the rapidly spreading virus and its escalating impact.
Japanese officials were deciding whether to quarantine more than 3,000 people on a cruise ship that carried a passenger who tested positive for the virus.
The latest figures are up from 361 deaths and 17,205 confirmed cases.
Other countries are continuing evacuations and restricting the entry of Chinese or people who have recently traveled in the country. In the province at the epicenter of the outbreak, a specialized 1,000-bed hospital started treating patients and a second hospital with 1,500 beds is to open within days.
Other countries continued evacuating citizens from hardest-hit Hubei province and restricted the entry of Chinese or people who recently traveled to the country. The World Health Organization said the number of cases will keep growing because tests are pending on thousands of suspected cases.
Chinese President Xi Jinping, presiding over a special meeting of the country’s top Communist Party body for the second time since the crisis started, said “we have launched a people’s war of prevention of the epidemic.”
He told the Politburo standing committee that the country must race against time to curb the spread of the virus and that those who neglect their duties will be punished, state broadcaster CCTV reported.
Medical teams from the People’s Liberation Army were arriving in Wuhan, the capital of Hubei province, to relieve overwhelmed health workers and to staff the new 1,000-bed hospital, located in the countryside far from the city center.
Its prefabricated wards are equipped with state-of-the-art medical equipment and ventilation systems. A second hospital with 1,500 beds is due to open within days.
China’s Shanghai Composite stock index plunged nearly 8% on the first day of trading after the Lunar New Year holiday, despite a central bank announcement that it was putting 1.2 trillion yuan ($173 billion) into the markets.
“We are fully confident in and capable of minimizing the epidemic’s impact on the economy,” Lian Weiliang, deputy chief of the National Development and Reform Commission, said at a news conference in Beijing.
Hong Kong’s leader, Carrie Lam, announced that the semi-autonomous territory will shut almost all but two land and sea border crossings with the mainland at midnight to stem the spread of the virus. Only the land checkpoints at Shenzhen Bay and the bridge to Macao and Zhuhai will remain open.
More than 2,000 hospital workers went on strike earlier in the day, demanding a complete closure of the border, and their union has threatened a bigger walkout Tuesday.
Hong Kong was hit hard by SARS, or severe acute respiratory syndrome, in 2002-03, an illness from the same family of viruses as the current outbreak and which many believe was intensified by official Chinese secrecy and obfuscation.
Chinese scientists said they have more evidence that it likely originated in bats. In a study published in the journal Nature, Shi Zhen-Li and colleagues at the Wuhan Institute of Virology reported that genome sequences from seven patients were 96% identical to a bat coronavirus.
SARS is also believed to have originated in bats, although it jumped to civet cats before infecting people. Scientists suspect the latest outbreak began at a seafood market in Wuhan where wild animals were on sale and in contact with people.
Meanwhile, Japanese health officials said a passenger on a Japanese-operated cruise ship tested positive for the virus after leaving the vessel in Hong Kong on Jan. 25.
The Diamond Princess returned to Yokohama carrying more than 3,000 passengers and crew after making port calls in Vietnam, Taiwan and Okinawa. A team of quarantine officials and medical staff boarded the ship Monday and began medical checks of everyone on board, a health ministry official said, speaking on condition of anonymity in keeping with department rules.
The passengers and crew members may be quarantined on the ship if the captain agrees to do so, the official said.
The ship’s captain said Hong Kong’s health authorities notified the ship about the passenger’s infection on Saturday, six days after he got off the ship after not being caught on thermal screening, according to a recording of the announcement tweeted by a passenger. The patient is currently recovering and is in stable condition, and his traveling companions so far have not been infected, the captain said.
“I wish we were informed as soon as they found out, then I could have worn a mask or washed hands more carefully,” the passenger said. “I was in Hong Kong nine days ago and it seems to be too late now.”
South Korea, which has 15 confirmed cases, quarantined 800 soldiers who had recently visited China, Hong Kong or Macao or had contact with people who had, defense ministry spokeswoman Choi Hyunsoo said.
The Philippines banned the entry of all non-citizens from China after two cases were confirmed there, including the only death outside China. The U.S., Japan, Singapore, Indonesia, New Zealand and Australia have imposed similar restrictions despite criticism from China and WHO’s guidance that such measures were unnecessary.
About 150 cases have been reported in two dozen other countries.
With no end to the outbreak in sight, authorities in Hubei and elsewhere extended the Lunar New Year holiday break, due to end this week, well into February to try to keep people at home and reduce the spread of the virus. All Hubei schools are postponing the start of the new semester until further notice.
___
Associated Press writers Bharatha Malawaraarachchi in Colombo, Sri Lanka, Maria Cheng in London, Mari Yamaguchi in Tokyo, Jamey Keaten in Geneva and Joe McDonald in Beijing and researchers Yu Bing in Beijing and Chen Si in Zhengzhou, China, contributed to this report.
China virus death toll rises to 425, total cases now 20,438
BEIJING (AP) — The death toll in mainland China from the new type of virus has risen to 425, with the total number of cases now standing at 20,438, officials said Tuesday...
apnews.com
China virus death toll rises to 425, total cases now 20,438
By KEN MORITSUGU
an hour ago
BEIJING (AP) — The death toll in mainland China from the new type of virus has risen to 425, with the total number of cases now standing at 20,438, officials said Tuesday.
The new figures come after the country opened a new hospital built in 10 days, infused cash into tumbling financial markets and further restricted people’s movement in hopes of containing the rapidly spreading virus and its escalating impact.
Japanese officials were deciding whether to quarantine more than 3,000 people on a cruise ship that carried a passenger who tested positive for the virus.
The latest figures are up from 361 deaths and 17,205 confirmed cases.
Other countries are continuing evacuations and restricting the entry of Chinese or people who have recently traveled in the country. In the province at the epicenter of the outbreak, a specialized 1,000-bed hospital started treating patients and a second hospital with 1,500 beds is to open within days.
Other countries continued evacuating citizens from hardest-hit Hubei province and restricted the entry of Chinese or people who recently traveled to the country. The World Health Organization said the number of cases will keep growing because tests are pending on thousands of suspected cases.
Chinese President Xi Jinping, presiding over a special meeting of the country’s top Communist Party body for the second time since the crisis started, said “we have launched a people’s war of prevention of the epidemic.”
He told the Politburo standing committee that the country must race against time to curb the spread of the virus and that those who neglect their duties will be punished, state broadcaster CCTV reported.
Medical teams from the People’s Liberation Army were arriving in Wuhan, the capital of Hubei province, to relieve overwhelmed health workers and to staff the new 1,000-bed hospital, located in the countryside far from the city center.
Its prefabricated wards are equipped with state-of-the-art medical equipment and ventilation systems. A second hospital with 1,500 beds is due to open within days.
China’s Shanghai Composite stock index plunged nearly 8% on the first day of trading after the Lunar New Year holiday, despite a central bank announcement that it was putting 1.2 trillion yuan ($173 billion) into the markets.
“We are fully confident in and capable of minimizing the epidemic’s impact on the economy,” Lian Weiliang, deputy chief of the National Development and Reform Commission, said at a news conference in Beijing.
Hong Kong’s leader, Carrie Lam, announced that the semi-autonomous territory will shut almost all but two land and sea border crossings with the mainland at midnight to stem the spread of the virus. Only the land checkpoints at Shenzhen Bay and the bridge to Macao and Zhuhai will remain open.
More than 2,000 hospital workers went on strike earlier in the day, demanding a complete closure of the border, and their union has threatened a bigger walkout Tuesday.
Hong Kong was hit hard by SARS, or severe acute respiratory syndrome, in 2002-03, an illness from the same family of viruses as the current outbreak and which many believe was intensified by official Chinese secrecy and obfuscation.
Chinese scientists said they have more evidence that it likely originated in bats. In a study published in the journal Nature, Shi Zhen-Li and colleagues at the Wuhan Institute of Virology reported that genome sequences from seven patients were 96% identical to a bat coronavirus.
SARS is also believed to have originated in bats, although it jumped to civet cats before infecting people. Scientists suspect the latest outbreak began at a seafood market in Wuhan where wild animals were on sale and in contact with people.
Meanwhile, Japanese health officials said a passenger on a Japanese-operated cruise ship tested positive for the virus after leaving the vessel in Hong Kong on Jan. 25.
The Diamond Princess returned to Yokohama carrying more than 3,000 passengers and crew after making port calls in Vietnam, Taiwan and Okinawa. A team of quarantine officials and medical staff boarded the ship Monday and began medical checks of everyone on board, a health ministry official said, speaking on condition of anonymity in keeping with department rules.
The passengers and crew members may be quarantined on the ship if the captain agrees to do so, the official said.
The ship’s captain said Hong Kong’s health authorities notified the ship about the passenger’s infection on Saturday, six days after he got off the ship after not being caught on thermal screening, according to a recording of the announcement tweeted by a passenger. The patient is currently recovering and is in stable condition, and his traveling companions so far have not been infected, the captain said.
“I wish we were informed as soon as they found out, then I could have worn a mask or washed hands more carefully,” the passenger said. “I was in Hong Kong nine days ago and it seems to be too late now.”
South Korea, which has 15 confirmed cases, quarantined 800 soldiers who had recently visited China, Hong Kong or Macao or had contact with people who had, defense ministry spokeswoman Choi Hyunsoo said.
The Philippines banned the entry of all non-citizens from China after two cases were confirmed there, including the only death outside China. The U.S., Japan, Singapore, Indonesia, New Zealand and Australia have imposed similar restrictions despite criticism from China and WHO’s guidance that such measures were unnecessary.
About 150 cases have been reported in two dozen other countries.
With no end to the outbreak in sight, authorities in Hubei and elsewhere extended the Lunar New Year holiday break, due to end this week, well into February to try to keep people at home and reduce the spread of the virus. All Hubei schools are postponing the start of the new semester until further notice.
___
Associated Press writers Bharatha Malawaraarachchi in Colombo, Sri Lanka, Maria Cheng in London, Mari Yamaguchi in Tokyo, Jamey Keaten in Geneva and Joe McDonald in Beijing and researchers Yu Bing in Beijing and Chen Si in Zhengzhou, China, contributed to this report.
bw
Fringe Ranger
It COULD be, but no unambiguous evidence. There was a post earlier on this thread that calc'd from 100k to 250k dead so far. Mass graves are not out of the question.
marsh
On TB every waking moment
If it is in Wuhan, I remember that there was concern when they were building the new hospital that it was near a water source. I doubt they would do a mass grave if they are sophisticated enough to realize the groundwater implications of seepage, even if they lined it.
jward
passin' thru
If they've not shown up on the graph cumulative chart then they've not been through the pipeline and officially declared yet. This source will include the cases, world wide, as such becomes officially part of the record and they can confidently include them. I've begun to only post the last few days of the lists of outbreaks t/he/y use for supporting documentation,and linking to the previous lists, as we're forced to truncate our posts here... hope this helps. don't forget flu trackers also has a quality cumulative listing.
Mark D
Now running for Emperor.
Anyone else come across the apparent "mistake" of real numbers being temporarily published on 26-Jan and again on 02-Feb??? Red numbers are SUSPECTED, yellow is CONFIRMED, green is RECOVERED, and black is DEAD.
"Apparently", these numbers we only up for a short time before the censors addressed the issue... Who knows.
26-Jan:
02-Feb:
"Apparently", these numbers we only up for a short time before the censors addressed the issue... Who knows.
26-Jan:
02-Feb:
Tarryn
Senior Member
He filmed corpses of coronavirus victims in China. Then the police broke into his home
He filmed corpses of coronavirus victims in China. Then the police broke into his home
People wear masks in Jingshan Park in Beijing. Beijing canceled many Spring Festival celebrations because of the coronavirus outbreak.
(Wu Hong/EPA-EFE/REX)
By ALICE SUCHINA CORRESPONDENT
FEB. 3, 2020
12:26 PM
BEIJING —
Masked men in hazmat suits came in the night and knocked on Fang Bin’s door in Wuhan, China, demanding to put him in quarantine.
“You went to such a dangerous place, couldn’t you have been infected?” one of them asked. “What if your sickness spreads to others?”
Fang grew suspicious. He wasn’t sick, and none of them was a doctor.
“My temperature is normal,” argued Fang, who taped the encounter. “Come back with an inspection warrant.”
ADVERTISEMENT
They broke into his home, confiscated his electronic devices and took him away — not to a hospital, but to a police station. Such was the perilous turn for a clothes seller who enlisted as a “citizen journalist” to report on his nation’s secrecy and mishandling of the coronavirus epidemic that has killed at least 360 and infected more than 17,300.
Fang was interrogated about videos he’d posted online, including one in which he spotted eight corpses within five minutes, at public hospitals in Wuhan, the center of an outbreak that has now surpassed China’s death toll during the SARS crisis in 2002-03.
“There wasn’t a single doctor” who interviewed me, Fang said in a phone interview Sunday. “They were all police.”
He said authorities accused him of receiving money from foreign organizations to make online videos, and ordered him to stop posting “rumors” that would “spread panic” online. Fang’s videos were potent: In one he counted several body bags outside a hospital, then went into a room where a man was gasping and sobbing as doctors spoke over a patient who had apparently just died:
ADVERTISEMENT
“It’s over. It’s over,” a voice says.
“Who is he to you?” Fang asked the man.
“My father,” the man cried.
As the new strain of coronavirus that originated in China spreads across the world, authorities are cracking down on Chinese activists’ attempts to investigate the severity of the outbreak. At least 254 Chinese citizens have been detained, fined or otherwise punished by authorities for “spreading rumors” about the coronavirus crisis so far, according to Chinese Human Rights Defenders, a nonprofit coalition that tracks human rights in China.
China’s inability to contain the virus in the early days of the outbreak has embarrassed it abroad and ignited a backlash at home as President Xi Jinping tries to calm panic at a time he is consolidating his power. Beijing has attempted to present a face of simultaneous transparency and control, urging foreign diplomats not to evacuate their citizens, and uncharacteristically allowing domestic media a modicum of freedom to report on the outbreak in the last two weeks.
Social media posts criticizing local government officials have been permitted to gather momentum, along with devastating stories of Wuhan and Hubei residents trying and failing to save family members’ lives because of the government’s failure to provide information, resources or access to medical facilities.
Chinese public security volunteers stand at an entrance to their community in Beijing on Friday to register personal information of people returning from outside Beijing after Spring Festival holidays.
(Wu Hong/EPA-EFE/REX)
Harsh criticism has been directed at the local police decision to punish eight whistleblowers, including at least one doctor, who tried to alert the public about a contagious new virus on Jan. 1. They were detained briefly for “spreading rumors” and made to sign a promise that they would stop “making untrue comments” that “severely disturbed the social order.”
ADVERTISEMENT
One of them, Dr. Li Wenliang, was later diagnosed with coronavirus after treating patients at the frontline.
In an unusual admonishment of a government institution, China’s Supreme People’s Court reprimanded the Wuhan police last week in a WeChat post, saying the whistleblowers should not have been criticized. Li and the others have since been heralded as heroes online and by a high-ranking scientist.
“The coronavirus outbreak requires a swift and comprehensive response that respects human rights,” said Yaqiu Wang, China researcher for Human Rights Watch, in a report on China’s coronavirus response.
“Authorities should recognize that censorship only fuels public distrust, and instead encourage civil society engagement and media reporting on this public health crisis,” Wang said.
But such openness runs contrary to the Communist Party’s instincts for secrecy and top-down rule. In recent days, censorship and propaganda have again intensified. Doctors and nurses in Wuhan and other localities have reportedly been ordered to stop speaking to the press. Many of the social media posts from sick individuals or their family members have disappeared.
Foreign journalists have been forced to delete video filmed near hospitals and escorted away from affected areas. State news channels meanwhile broadcast stories celebrating China’s fast construction of new hospitals, factories producing face masks to fill the shortage, and medical personnel holding hands with patients in hospital beds, singing patriotic songs to soothe them.
One of the most popular articles in more independent-leaning local media, a report by business publication Caijing about the “uncounted people” who had died without being tested or reported as potential coronavirus victims, was wiped off the Chinese internet on Monday.
Fang, who runs a traditional Chinese clothing shop in Wuhan, said he’d decided to try “citizen journalism” because of a dearth of reliable information, especially for Wuhan residents stuck in their homes and afraid to go outside.
ADVERTISEMENT
“I wanted to go and see what’s actually happening. It’s what any normal citizen should do,” he said.
He put on a mask and a hanfu, the traditional outfit he usually sells, and ventured into ground zero.
Fang spent the morning visiting public hospitals in Wuhan and posting videos online. In a video filmed at one of Wuhan’s hospitals, one of the designated locations for treating coronavirus patients, he counted eight corpses within five minutes, including bodies in bright yellow and orange bags.
2,541 people are talking about this
“How can there be so many?” he said.
That night, the men in medical suits came to his door.
Fear spread across the community of Chinese civil society activists in Wuhan, many of whom have been organizing volunteer efforts to share medical supplies and donations from other “online friends” across the country who don’t trust the official channels.
A group of them went to Fang’s residential compound. Unsure of which building he was in, they shouted his name to the sky in the dark. There was no response.
Panicked, they began sharing videos of Fang’s confrontation online — and as their posts went viral, the police questioners’ tone changed, Fang said.
Around 12:30 a.m., the police let Fang go with just a warning, though they kept his computer. He found a bike, made his way home, and posted another video online, thanking the other activists and calling for more citizens to speak up.
“There’s no use if you’re afraid and you’re begging. The more afraid you are, the more they’ll act like this,” he said. “Only if everyone stands up together — that’s why I say our movement right now, all the people saving themselves, should become all the people saving one another.”
“You’re the ones who saved me,” he said.
He filmed corpses of coronavirus victims in China. Then the police broke into his home
People wear masks in Jingshan Park in Beijing. Beijing canceled many Spring Festival celebrations because of the coronavirus outbreak.
(Wu Hong/EPA-EFE/REX)
By ALICE SUCHINA CORRESPONDENT
FEB. 3, 2020
12:26 PM
BEIJING —
Masked men in hazmat suits came in the night and knocked on Fang Bin’s door in Wuhan, China, demanding to put him in quarantine.
“You went to such a dangerous place, couldn’t you have been infected?” one of them asked. “What if your sickness spreads to others?”
Fang grew suspicious. He wasn’t sick, and none of them was a doctor.
“My temperature is normal,” argued Fang, who taped the encounter. “Come back with an inspection warrant.”
ADVERTISEMENT
They broke into his home, confiscated his electronic devices and took him away — not to a hospital, but to a police station. Such was the perilous turn for a clothes seller who enlisted as a “citizen journalist” to report on his nation’s secrecy and mishandling of the coronavirus epidemic that has killed at least 360 and infected more than 17,300.
Fang was interrogated about videos he’d posted online, including one in which he spotted eight corpses within five minutes, at public hospitals in Wuhan, the center of an outbreak that has now surpassed China’s death toll during the SARS crisis in 2002-03.
“There wasn’t a single doctor” who interviewed me, Fang said in a phone interview Sunday. “They were all police.”
He said authorities accused him of receiving money from foreign organizations to make online videos, and ordered him to stop posting “rumors” that would “spread panic” online. Fang’s videos were potent: In one he counted several body bags outside a hospital, then went into a room where a man was gasping and sobbing as doctors spoke over a patient who had apparently just died:
ADVERTISEMENT
“It’s over. It’s over,” a voice says.
“Who is he to you?” Fang asked the man.
“My father,” the man cried.
As the new strain of coronavirus that originated in China spreads across the world, authorities are cracking down on Chinese activists’ attempts to investigate the severity of the outbreak. At least 254 Chinese citizens have been detained, fined or otherwise punished by authorities for “spreading rumors” about the coronavirus crisis so far, according to Chinese Human Rights Defenders, a nonprofit coalition that tracks human rights in China.
China’s inability to contain the virus in the early days of the outbreak has embarrassed it abroad and ignited a backlash at home as President Xi Jinping tries to calm panic at a time he is consolidating his power. Beijing has attempted to present a face of simultaneous transparency and control, urging foreign diplomats not to evacuate their citizens, and uncharacteristically allowing domestic media a modicum of freedom to report on the outbreak in the last two weeks.
Social media posts criticizing local government officials have been permitted to gather momentum, along with devastating stories of Wuhan and Hubei residents trying and failing to save family members’ lives because of the government’s failure to provide information, resources or access to medical facilities.
Chinese public security volunteers stand at an entrance to their community in Beijing on Friday to register personal information of people returning from outside Beijing after Spring Festival holidays.
(Wu Hong/EPA-EFE/REX)
Harsh criticism has been directed at the local police decision to punish eight whistleblowers, including at least one doctor, who tried to alert the public about a contagious new virus on Jan. 1. They were detained briefly for “spreading rumors” and made to sign a promise that they would stop “making untrue comments” that “severely disturbed the social order.”
ADVERTISEMENT
One of them, Dr. Li Wenliang, was later diagnosed with coronavirus after treating patients at the frontline.
In an unusual admonishment of a government institution, China’s Supreme People’s Court reprimanded the Wuhan police last week in a WeChat post, saying the whistleblowers should not have been criticized. Li and the others have since been heralded as heroes online and by a high-ranking scientist.
“The coronavirus outbreak requires a swift and comprehensive response that respects human rights,” said Yaqiu Wang, China researcher for Human Rights Watch, in a report on China’s coronavirus response.
“Authorities should recognize that censorship only fuels public distrust, and instead encourage civil society engagement and media reporting on this public health crisis,” Wang said.
But such openness runs contrary to the Communist Party’s instincts for secrecy and top-down rule. In recent days, censorship and propaganda have again intensified. Doctors and nurses in Wuhan and other localities have reportedly been ordered to stop speaking to the press. Many of the social media posts from sick individuals or their family members have disappeared.
Foreign journalists have been forced to delete video filmed near hospitals and escorted away from affected areas. State news channels meanwhile broadcast stories celebrating China’s fast construction of new hospitals, factories producing face masks to fill the shortage, and medical personnel holding hands with patients in hospital beds, singing patriotic songs to soothe them.
One of the most popular articles in more independent-leaning local media, a report by business publication Caijing about the “uncounted people” who had died without being tested or reported as potential coronavirus victims, was wiped off the Chinese internet on Monday.
Fang, who runs a traditional Chinese clothing shop in Wuhan, said he’d decided to try “citizen journalism” because of a dearth of reliable information, especially for Wuhan residents stuck in their homes and afraid to go outside.
ADVERTISEMENT
“I wanted to go and see what’s actually happening. It’s what any normal citizen should do,” he said.
He put on a mask and a hanfu, the traditional outfit he usually sells, and ventured into ground zero.
Fang spent the morning visiting public hospitals in Wuhan and posting videos online. In a video filmed at one of Wuhan’s hospitals, one of the designated locations for treating coronavirus patients, he counted eight corpses within five minutes, including bodies in bright yellow and orange bags.
曾錚 Jennifer Zeng@jenniferatntd
https://twitter.com/jenniferatntd/status/1223639844829769734
Bilingual titles added. 8 bodies in 5 minutes! More are lying inside to be moved out. Somebody secretly shot this video from No. 3 Hopital in #Wuhan during #coronarovirus #武汉肺炎
字幕版
某網友秘訪武漢第三醫院，五分钟功夫就見到八具屍體拉走去火化場，而且里面还有。
2,796
11:10 AM - Feb 1, 2020
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2,541 people are talking about this
“How can there be so many?” he said.
That night, the men in medical suits came to his door.
Fear spread across the community of Chinese civil society activists in Wuhan, many of whom have been organizing volunteer efforts to share medical supplies and donations from other “online friends” across the country who don’t trust the official channels.
A group of them went to Fang’s residential compound. Unsure of which building he was in, they shouted his name to the sky in the dark. There was no response.
Panicked, they began sharing videos of Fang’s confrontation online — and as their posts went viral, the police questioners’ tone changed, Fang said.
Around 12:30 a.m., the police let Fang go with just a warning, though they kept his computer. He found a bike, made his way home, and posted another video online, thanking the other activists and calling for more citizens to speak up.
“There’s no use if you’re afraid and you’re begging. The more afraid you are, the more they’ll act like this,” he said. “Only if everyone stands up together — that’s why I say our movement right now, all the people saving themselves, should become all the people saving one another.”
“You’re the ones who saved me,” he said.
northern watch
TB Fanatic
BNO NewsroomVerified account @BNODesk 2h2 hours ago
UPDATE: China's National Health Commission reports 750 new cases of coronavirus, raising the total to more than 20,000
UPDATE: China's National Health Commission reports 750 new cases of coronavirus, raising the total to more than 20,000
jward
passin' thru
darn- kind of young, but still showing co-morbidity
BNO Newsroom
@BNODesk
10m
Hong Kong media are reporting that a 39-year-old man with coronavirus and an underlying illness has died. Not yet confirmed by officials.
BNO Newsroom
@BNODesk
10m
Hong Kong media are reporting that a 39-year-old man with coronavirus and an underlying illness has died. Not yet confirmed by officials.
jward
passin' thru
Coronavirus: Hong Kong confirms first death, a 39-year-old patient
Alvin Lum
Published: 10:31am, 4 Feb, 2020
A 39-year-old patient has become the first to die in Hong Kong from an illness related to the deadly coronavirus, the Post understands.
The patient, who was being treated in Princess Margaret Hospital in Kwai Chung, died on Tuesday morning due to sudden heart failure, according to three medical sources.
On Monday, the Centre for Health Protection said there were 15 confirmed cases in Hong Kong.
More to follow ...
posted for fair use
www.scmp.com
- City suffers first fatality related to deadly virus originating in Wuhan
Alvin Lum
Published: 10:31am, 4 Feb, 2020
A 39-year-old patient has become the first to die in Hong Kong from an illness related to the deadly coronavirus, the Post understands.
The patient, who was being treated in Princess Margaret Hospital in Kwai Chung, died on Tuesday morning due to sudden heart failure, according to three medical sources.
On Monday, the Centre for Health Protection said there were 15 confirmed cases in Hong Kong.
More to follow ...
posted for fair use
Hong Kong confirms first novel coronavirus death, a 39-year-old patient
City suffers first fatality from deadly virus originating in Wuhan.
www.scmp.com
northern watch
TB Fanatic
BNO NewsroomVerified account @BNODesk 55s55 seconds ago
BREAKING: Hong Kong confirms first death from coronavirus
BREAKING: Hong Kong confirms first death from coronavirus
Texican
Live Free & Die Free.... God Freedom Country....
The bottom line, if you have a very low or no chance of survival, the patient will be shot up with pain killers and allowed to die....
Texican....
Texican
Live Free & Die Free.... God Freedom Country....
Coronavirus: Hong Kong confirms first death, a 39-year-old patient
- City suffers first fatality related to deadly virus originating in Wuhan
Alvin Lum
Published: 10:31am, 4 Feb, 2020
A 39-year-old patient has become the first to die in Hong Kong from an illness related to the deadly coronavirus, the Post understands.
The patient, who was being treated in Princess Margaret Hospital in Kwai Chung, died on Tuesday morning due to sudden heart failure, according to three medical sources.
On Monday, the Centre for Health Protection said there were 15 confirmed cases in Hong Kong.
More to follow ...
posted for fair use
Hong Kong confirms first novel coronavirus death, a 39-year-old patient
City suffers first fatality from deadly virus originating in Wuhan.
Heart failure is one of the causes of death for those with the WuFlu....
Texican....
jward
passin' thru
Indeed it is often what finally gives...all I have read re: underlying medical on this patient is:
hope this helps...
BNO Newsroom
@BNODesk
27m
The only information is that he had a long-term underlying illness. He developed myalgia on January 29 and began having fever on January 31, when he was diagnosed with coronavirus. According to local media, he has now died of sudden heart failure.
Weps
Veteran Member
Biosafety Level 4 Laboratory User Training Program, China - CDC May 2019
Check out the location of their BSL-4 facility.
Check out the location of their BSL-4 facility.
If things are as some suspect in China that bad then there are a couple possible scenario’s amongst others,
1. China devolves into chaos and splits into many cultural factions with both violent retribution for past perceived slights and battles to set borders and possible ethnic strife North vs South and East vs West. This would not be a China only problem but require a huge reset for the worlds production.
2. Chinese leaders go all us vs them and create or is creating the belief that this was an attack from those outside China like the Opium wars and provide a need to attack and strike back at the ‘others’ who did this to us. This is redirection of the growing anger that they know is directed at the central authority. There will be crap like some on this board have suggested that a virus only attacks Asians. Not that it started in the Central part of a country that is almost entirely Han Chinese. Most western foreigners are very south on coast or in the capital. This is a huge wildcard because of the whole nuke thing and potential attacks against one or more US carrier to show China’s power. What constraints do we think the leaders in China might have if they feel power slipping away.. If this is bio weapon that got away what other goodies are they working on?
3. Roses and unicorns with everyone holding hands singing “ I want to teach the World to sing...”
1. China devolves into chaos and splits into many cultural factions with both violent retribution for past perceived slights and battles to set borders and possible ethnic strife North vs South and East vs West. This would not be a China only problem but require a huge reset for the worlds production.
2. Chinese leaders go all us vs them and create or is creating the belief that this was an attack from those outside China like the Opium wars and provide a need to attack and strike back at the ‘others’ who did this to us. This is redirection of the growing anger that they know is directed at the central authority. There will be crap like some on this board have suggested that a virus only attacks Asians. Not that it started in the Central part of a country that is almost entirely Han Chinese. Most western foreigners are very south on coast or in the capital. This is a huge wildcard because of the whole nuke thing and potential attacks against one or more US carrier to show China’s power. What constraints do we think the leaders in China might have if they feel power slipping away.. If this is bio weapon that got away what other goodies are they working on?
3. Roses and unicorns with everyone holding hands singing “ I want to teach the World to sing...”
jward
passin' thru
::shruggin. wasn't there. can't say what it was about. but no reason to doubt the copy 
::
曾錚 Jennifer Zeng
@jenniferatntd
41m
In Nanchang, Jiangxi Province, someone failed to disclose he came from #Wuhan, and had been to everywhere. After he was confirmed to have #coronavirus, angry people beaten his family. 南昌某小区，有人从武汉回来未上报，四处走动，确诊患 #武汉肺炎 后，家人遭追打 。
View: https://twitter.com/jenniferatntd/status/1224520788306530305?s=20
::曾錚 Jennifer Zeng
@jenniferatntd
41m
In Nanchang, Jiangxi Province, someone failed to disclose he came from #Wuhan, and had been to everywhere. After he was confirmed to have #coronavirus, angry people beaten his family. 南昌某小区，有人从武汉回来未上报，四处走动，确诊患 #武汉肺炎 后，家人遭追打 。
View: https://twitter.com/jenniferatntd/status/1224520788306530305?s=20
Tristan
Has No Life - Lives on TB
You have my thanks, as well!
In fact, thank you to all the professionals who are taking the time to share their knowledge and opinion with us here on this forum!!!
Anyone else come across the apparent "mistake" of real numbers being temporarily published on 26-Jan and again on 02-Feb??? Red numbers are SUSPECTED, yellow is CONFIRMED, green is RECOVERED, and black is DEAD.
"Apparently", these numbers we only up for a short time before the censors addressed the issue... Who knows.
26-Jan:
02-Feb:
Any Chinese translators around? TIA!
Ractivist
Pride comes before the fall.....Pride month ended.
Vid at 7832 definetly appears to be a mass grave being prepared. Very large, deep, wide and long. Putting plastics down to protect the dirt and stop run off. I suspect quite the cap when it's done as well. Likely a planned memorial at this point. Here lies.......
Though if this thing runs it's distance run, there will be no tourists to come visit.
Though if this thing runs it's distance run, there will be no tourists to come visit.
jward
passin' thru
Now they want our help???
China Daily
@ChinaDaily
2m
#China said it hopes the assistance the #US announced it would provide to help tackle the novel #coronavirus outbreak will take place as soon as possible.
China Daily
@ChinaDaily
2m
#China said it hopes the assistance the #US announced it would provide to help tackle the novel #coronavirus outbreak will take place as soon as possible.
I spent the entire day in the ER at a Fresno hospital today. A whole lot of the staff was out with the Super Bowl Party Flu - AKA hangovers.
On a more serious note, there were not many people in the hospital with common flu symptoms or even coughs.
jward
passin' thru
China hopes US provides vowed help with outbreak soon
By WANG QINGYUN | chinadaily.com.cn | Updated: 2020-02-04 10:31
China said it hopes the assistance the US announced it would provide to help tackle the novel coronavirus outbreak will take place as soon as possible.
Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying made the remark on Tuesday, after Reuters quoted US President Donald Trump as saying the US officials had offered China "tremendous help" in dealing with the epidemic.
"We can't have thousands of people coming in who may have this problem - the coronavirus," Trump was quoted as saying.
China has noticed that the US has expressed several times its willingness to provide assistance, and hopes the assistance said will be extended as soon as possible, Hua said.
China is fully confident in its capacity to win the fight against the virus, Hua said.
The decisive and effective measures China has taken are gradually taking effect, and the fatality rate of the disease in the Chinese mainland is 2.1 percent, "much lower than that of Ebola, SARS and MERS", Hua said, adding that the recovery rate keeps increasing.
The US should view China's efforts objectively, fairly and calmly without overreaction, and respect and coordinate with such efforts, she said.
posted for fair use
www.chinadaily.com.cn
Related Stories
By WANG QINGYUN | chinadaily.com.cn | Updated: 2020-02-04 10:31
China said it hopes the assistance the US announced it would provide to help tackle the novel coronavirus outbreak will take place as soon as possible.
Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying made the remark on Tuesday, after Reuters quoted US President Donald Trump as saying the US officials had offered China "tremendous help" in dealing with the epidemic.
"We can't have thousands of people coming in who may have this problem - the coronavirus," Trump was quoted as saying.
China has noticed that the US has expressed several times its willingness to provide assistance, and hopes the assistance said will be extended as soon as possible, Hua said.
China is fully confident in its capacity to win the fight against the virus, Hua said.
The decisive and effective measures China has taken are gradually taking effect, and the fatality rate of the disease in the Chinese mainland is 2.1 percent, "much lower than that of Ebola, SARS and MERS", Hua said, adding that the recovery rate keeps increasing.
The US should view China's efforts objectively, fairly and calmly without overreaction, and respect and coordinate with such efforts, she said.
posted for fair use
China hopes US provides vowed help with outbreak soon
China said it hopes the assistance the US announced it would provide to help tackle the novel coronavirus outbreak will take place as soon as possible.
www.chinadaily.com.cn
Related Stories
jward
passin' thru
I hope all is well with you and yours-
and thank you for that update of real time Info-
....and...whispers...go chiefs ; )
Tristan
Has No Life - Lives on TB
I think that had to hurt their pride. Hope I'm wrong...
US peeps have been saying they've been offering help for days. Is the message not getting through, or not considered politically advantageous at the time by the CCP? Hmmmmm.
Tesss
Veteran Member
Today I went to get some more can goods. I saw a woman put her nose and hand down in the grapes and she grabbed a few. She walked off with her cart munching away on the fruit she had just stolen. I spoke to a person who worked there. She was shocked but never said a word to the grape stealing woman. I was so mad and I confronted the woman. I started yelling at her and I was not kind. I have NEVER EVER yelled like that at anyone in a public place before. I even startled myself. It was like this inconsiderate, stupid, and selfish woman hit my last button. I had to seriously restrain self to keep from punching her. I’ve never felt so much hitting someone like that. She was obnoxious to me but that was to be expected. I’m trying to not get the regular flu!
Our 50th wedding is coming up the end of April. Our options for a celebration plans are being destroyed. We seriously talked about a long cruise or going to Cancun or Hawaii. Now, it looks like we will have to put off any plans until later in the summer. I am not a bridezilla type person so this action is totally out of character for me. sorry ....I just needed to share and pray that others who see people do stupid contaminating behavior like this to food don’t lash out like I did.
My point of this post is that I did not know how tightly wound up I was that I lost my temper because of frustration building up and still trying to “prep”.
Our 50th wedding is coming up the end of April. Our options for a celebration plans are being destroyed. We seriously talked about a long cruise or going to Cancun or Hawaii. Now, it looks like we will have to put off any plans until later in the summer. I am not a bridezilla type person so this action is totally out of character for me. sorry ....I just needed to share and pray that others who see people do stupid contaminating behavior like this to food don’t lash out like I did.
My point of this post is that I did not know how tightly wound up I was that I lost my temper because of frustration building up and still trying to “prep”.
jward
passin' thru
Interesting questions you pose. I would suspect that we tried the carrot, and felt the time had come for the stick-
though still let them package it in the most palatable terms for their folk.
This is a global concern, and undoubtedly will be met as such, behind or in front of the curtain is the only real question IMHO
Tom McDowell
BAMN
Sustained nCoV Transmission In Germany Via Asymtomatic Employee
A German auto parts company with offices in China is the epicenter of sustained nCoV transmission in Bavaria after child of employee confirmed. https://www.stmgp.bayern.de/presse/aktuelle-informationen-zur-coronavirus-lage-in-bayern-bayerisches-gesundheitsministerium-2/
recombinomics.co
Germans repatriated from Wuhan, China, arrive at an army barracks on 1 February to be examined for signs of infection with the new coronavirus.
FRANK RUMPENHORST/PICTURE-ALLIANCE/DPA/AP IMAGES
Study claiming new coronavirus can be transmitted by people without symptoms was flawed
By Kai KupferschmidtFeb. 3, 2020 , 5:30 PM
A paper published on 30 January in The New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM) about the first four people in Germany infected with a novel coronavirus made many headlines because it seemed to confirm what public health experts feared: that someone who has no symptoms from infection with the virus, named 2019-nCoV, can still transmit it to others. That might make controlling the virus much harder.
Chinese researchers had previously suggested asymptomatic people might transmit the virus but had not presented clear-cut evidence. “There’s no doubt after reading [the NEJM] paper that asymptomatic transmission is occurring,” Anthony Fauci, director of the U.S. National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told journalists. “This study lays the question to rest.”
But now, it turns out that information was wrong. The Robert Koch Institute (RKI), the German government’s public health agency, has written a letter to NEJM to set the record straight, even though it was not involved in the paper.
The letter in NEJM described a cluster of infections that began after a businesswoman from Shanghai visited a company near Munich on 20 and 21 January, where she had a meeting with the first of four people who later fell ill. Crucially, she wasn’t sick at the time: “During her stay, she had been well with no sign or symptoms of infection but had become ill on her flight back to China,” the authors wrote. “The fact that asymptomatic persons are potential sources of 2019-nCoV infection may warrant a reassessment of transmission dynamics of the current outbreak.”
But the researchers didn’t actually speak to the woman before they published the paper. The last author, Michael Hoelscher of the Ludwig Maximilian University of Munich Medical Center, says the paper relied on information from the four other patients: “They told us that the patient from China did not appear to have any symptoms.” Afterward, however, RKI and the Health and Food Safety Authority of the state of Bavaria did talk to the Shanghai patient on the phone, and it turned out she did have symptoms while in Germany. According to people familiar with the call, she felt tired, suffered from muscle pain, and took paracetamol, a fever-lowering medication. (An RKI spokesperson would only confirm to Science that the woman had symptoms.)
Hoelscher was not on the call, he says. “I asked the Bavarian Health and Food Safety Authority whether the information from that phone conversation called for a correction and I was told that is not the case,” he says. (The Bavarian ministry of health, of which the agency is part, has not responded to a request for information from ScienceInsider.) But RKI disagreed. The agency’s spokesperson confirms that a letter about the error has been submitted to NEJM. RKI also informed the World Health Organization (WHO) and European partner agencies about the new information.
“I feel bad about how this went, but I don’t think anybody is at fault here,” says virologist Christian Drosten of the Charité University Hospital in Berlin, who did the lab work for the study and is one of its authors. “Apparently the woman could not be reached at first and people felt this had to be communicated quickly.”
Marc Lipsitch, an epidemiologist at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, says calling a case asymptomatic without talking to the person is problematic. “In retrospect, it sounds like this was a poor choice,” he says. However, “In an emergency setting, it’s often not possible to talk to all the people,” he adds. “I’m assuming that this was an overstretched group trying to get out their best idea of what the truth was quickly rather than somebody trying to be careless.”
The Public Health Agency of Sweden reacted less charitably. “The sources that claimed that the coronavirus would infect during the incubation period lack scientific support for this analysis in their articles,” says a document with frequently asked questions the agency posted on its website yesterday. “This applies, among other things, to an article in [NEJM] that has subsequently proven to contain major flaws and errors.” Even if the patient’s symptoms were unspecific, it wasn’t an asymptomatic infection, says Isaac Bogoch, an infectious disease specialist at the University of Toronto. “Asymptomatic means no symptoms, zero. It means you feel fine. We have to be careful with our words.”
Hoelscher agrees that the paper should have been clearer about the origin of the information about the woman’s health. “If I was writing this today, I would phrase that differently,” he says. The need to share information as fast as possible, along with NEJM’s push to publish early, created a lot of pressure, he says.
Given how fast data are coming out amid the growing global crisis, it’s good to read even peer-reviewed papers with some extra caution at the moment, Lipsitch says: “I think peer review is lighter in the middle of an epidemic than it is at normal speed, and also the quality of the data going into the papers is necessarily more uncertain.”
The fact that the paper got it wrong doesn’t mean transmission from asymptomatic people doesn’t occur. Fauci, for one, still believes it does. "This evening I telephoned one of my colleagues in China who is a highly respected infectious diseases scientist and health official," he says. "He said that he is convinced that there is asymptomatic infection and that some asymptomatic people are transmitting infection." But even if they do, asymptomatic transmission likely plays a minor role in the epidemic overall, WHO says. People who cough or sneeze are more likely to spread the virus, the agency wrote in a situation report on Saturday. “More data may come out soon. We will just have to wait,” Lipsitch says.
The German cluster does reveal another interesting aspect about the new virus, Drosten says. So far most attention has gone to patients who get seriously ill, but all four cases in Germany had a very mild infection. That may be true for many more patients, Drosten says, which may help the virus spread. “There is increasingly the sense that patients may just experience mild cold symptoms, while already shedding the virus,” he says. “Those are not symptoms that lead people to stay at home.”
Study claiming new coronavirus can be transmitted by people without symptoms was flawed
Quote
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.
helen
Panic Sex Lady
The pain killers are made in China.
EMICT
Veteran Member
These are some of the questions I have regarding this outbreak that I can't quite come up with a solid answer for...
1) Length of time from infection to signs/symptoms (Fever, body aches, etc)
2) Length of time from fever, body aches to pneumonia symptoms
3) Length of time from pneumonia symptoms until death if untreated
If we could get some solid figures for these questions, then we could start to determine which direction this outbreak is going, i.e. - More deadly / Less deadly
With the limited reports coming out of China, it's kind of hard to determine what mutation of this virus is causing what symptoms at any particular time in the infection process. I guess that is why most epidemics/pandemics are viewed from the backside instead of during the crisis because there are far to many variables with a virus that is constantly evolving and mutating.
1) Length of time from infection to signs/symptoms (Fever, body aches, etc)
2) Length of time from fever, body aches to pneumonia symptoms
3) Length of time from pneumonia symptoms until death if untreated
If we could get some solid figures for these questions, then we could start to determine which direction this outbreak is going, i.e. - More deadly / Less deadly
With the limited reports coming out of China, it's kind of hard to determine what mutation of this virus is causing what symptoms at any particular time in the infection process. I guess that is why most epidemics/pandemics are viewed from the backside instead of during the crisis because there are far to many variables with a virus that is constantly evolving and mutating.
jward
passin' thru
Aww Tess : ( Hugs & Hot Tea & oodles o' understanding. Talking to us is a good thing. So is keeping yourself physically active, and in whatever prayer or reflective program you practice. Your feelings are so very normal, but as you realize, we can't go taking outsiders to task as an outlet (though goodness knows the talking to they need is legion!)
Is there any way we can help? Say the word, and we're there. In the mean time, breath slowly, deeply and know this is all
surface stuff- those middle messy chapters, as I like to call them, and we know how the story ends! <3
Is there any way we can help? Say the word, and we're there. In the mean time, breath slowly, deeply and know this is all
surface stuff- those middle messy chapters, as I like to call them, and we know how the story ends! <3
Mark D
Now running for Emperor.
If this request is indeed genuine, they have either managed to destroy all of the evidence, or things have truly become apocalyptic.