Would Jesus Have Booed Ron Paul's "Golden Rule for Foreign Policy?"

Hfcomms

EN66iq
[I saw this being referenced on TOL and it's a good thoughtful read.]


Posted by Jim Babka — January 24, 2012


This is an open letter to my fellow Christians. If it moves you, please share it with other believers. It is intended to be a chain letter, to spread and cause discussion.

Here is The Golden Rule as expressed by Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ . . .

"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you..." And in this instance its "golden" because it "...sums up the Law and the Prophets." [Matthew 7:12 (NIV)]

On Tuesday, January 17, 2012, in the South Carolina Republican debate, candidate Ron Paul said the following...

My point is, if another country does to us what we do others, we're not going to like it very much. So I would say that maybe we ought to consider a golden rule in foreign policy. [loud boos begin to drown out Paul] Don't do to other nations what we don't want to have them do to us. [indecipherable angry shouts can be heard]

The booing stunned me. Maybe it wouldn't have a while back. Maybe I would've booed too. After all . . .

I was brought up in a fundamentalist church, educated at a Baptist school, thanks to parents who listened to Christian radio. My father was a Goldwater/Reagan Republican. I was a College Republican and a "dittohead" (Rush Limbaugh fan). In my adulthood, I taught Sunday School in two mainstream Evangelical churches.

Therefore, I understand that South Carolina crowd. But there's no disputing that many of them booed the words of their professed Messiah.

My heart has grown and my mind has transformed. So when the booing happened during the debate, I thought . . .

"Would Jesus have booed?"

Jesus advocated The Golden Rule. Ron Paul advocated applying The Golden Rule. But the Christian crowd booed the words "golden rule."

Someone committed an error. Was it Jesus? Was it Ron Paul? Or was it the church-going crowd?

Is there any way to defend that crowd without rejecting Jesus?

As I said, maybe I too would have booed in the past. I suspect I would've justified myself as follows . . .
The Golden Rule doesn't apply to government, which according to Romans 13 was given the "power of the sword" to "terrorize evildoers."
Ron Paul was being naive. These are dangerous Muslim terrorists, and they want to kill innocent Americans. The Golden Rule doesn't apply to Al Qaeda. They will see meekness as weakness and hurt us some more.

Indeed, according to Romans 13, government leaders are to be a terror to evildoers. The "power of the sword" may be required.

But candidate Paul advocates policies that accord perfectly with Romans 13. He admits that war is sometimes necessary. His only caveat is that Congress must first declare it. Mr. Paul argues that this legal impediment helps to ensure that war is pursued rarely and with sufficient cause. This position has the virtue of being consistent with Christian tradition (Just War) and the Constitution.

But is it somehow naive? And if so, was Jesus naive?

Consider what some call the hardest verses in the Bible, Matthew 5:38-42. They come from the Sermon on the Mount . . .

"You have heard that it was said, 'An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.' 39 But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also. 40 If anyone wants to sue you and take away your tunic, let him have your cloak also. 41 And whoever compels you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him who asks you, and from him who wants to borrow from you do not turn away."

And these thoughts are echoed in Romans 12:17-20 (see also Proverbs 25:21-22) . . .

"17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everyone. 18 If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. 19 Do not take revenge, my dear friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: 'It is mine to avenge; I will repay,' says the Lord. 20 On the contrary: If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head."

Is this how we conduct our foreign policy? Is this how we defend ourselves? Or is it possible that Jesus knows more about true security than either our politicians or that Christian crowd in South Carolina?

Didn't our Savior admonish us, AT A MINIMUM, to at least stop for a moment and ponder the following possibility . . .
that listening to our enemies,
considering their concerns,
and treating them always as we would want to be treated,
even going the extra mile with them

. . . might help them decide that they no longer want to terrorize or attack us? Conversely . . .

Isn't it possible that our hyper-aggressive, vengeful approach has actually created more enemies for us than it has killed? Don't Christ's words strongly suggest that this is not only possible, but probable?

And haven't Christians made this mistake before?

Every good Protestant knows that a lot of harm has been done to the reputation of the church due to crusades and inquisitions. But what American Evangelicals don't seem to know is that in certain other parts of the world the crusades are still underway, AND WE ARE THE CRUSADERS.

Stated differently, millions of Muslims think Christians are not ambassadors of The Gospel (good news). Instead, they view "Christian" America as a military force, intent on occupying and looting.

This problem goes back decades. Our politicians have constantly propped up foreign rulers who are friendly to us, but oppressive and offensive to their people. This has made the American people complicit in the crimes of dictators. It has made people hate us. By contrast . . .

A Golden Rule foreign policy takes note of the actual motives of your enemy, not the made up propaganda ones like, "They hate us because we're free."

Moreover, in the economy of God's Kingdom -- where the last are first, the greatest is the servant, and enemies deserve love -- love is a battle strategy! It's a way to quell your enemies, even to heap coals on their heads.

It's also the parsimonious method of achieving victory. Lives are saved, literally and spiritually. It avoids the killing of innocents, the death of troops, and the destruction of the bodies and minds of war survivors. And the profiteering of bankers and agents of death are all minimized or eliminated.

Having a Golden Rule foreign policy is not a doe-eyed innocent's suggestion that suddenly the lion is now ready to lay with the lamb. It's NOT pacifism. Rather, it's an assertion that there's far more war than there needs to be. It's the faith that a Tower of Babel, full of wise men (politicians), can't accomplish nearly as much with coercive force as can be achieved following God's instructions, from Scripture, with grace.

But what if they STILL want to kill us?

Well, even candidate Paul voted to go after Bin Laden following 9/11. Having a Golden Rule foreign policy doesn't rule out a Congressional declaration of war (something that hasn't happened since 1941). Sometimes, you have to fight.

But the policy of our current leaders, in BOTH parties, is that we should be LOOKING for fights, until every nation is acting in OUR interests. Listen to the words of the other GOP candidates; you'll hear it. In the debates, they've been especially fond of saying that Pakistan and Afghanistan should be looking out for U.S. interests.

How would we feel if some other power was trying to make us look out for them, instead of our own interests? Oh wait: That's The Golden Rule popping up again.

You see, we want to be treated a certain way! Jesus taught us to empathize. He said that we must show AT LEAST equal respect to others. But, as you've already seen, he actually advocated going even further. He said we should consistently treat people even BETTER than they deserve!

The equal respect part of this -- The Golden Rule -- is very nearly a universal ethic. It can be found in virtually every major religion and most major philosophical systems. It teaches us, as does nature, that we cannot expect to be treated well if we don't treat others with decency. That makes The Golden Rule the most practical rule in the world.

It's a law of reciprocity. But compare it with other forms of reciprocity, like an eye-for-an-eye. The Golden Rule is an ethic that is not only more gracious, but also potentially rich with opportunity. It's reflected in the words, "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do," when we all know that instead, the man who spoke those words could've called ten thousand angels to his aid.

Instead of booing, shouldn't we pause and prayerfully consider whether our Savior's wisdom applies?

Who was wrong? Was it Jesus? Ron Paul? Or the Christians who booed the Golden Rule?

I think the answer is obvious. What do you think?

http://www.downsizedcfoundation.org...ooed-ron-pauls-golden-rule-for-foreign-policy
 

Jeff Allen

Producer
frankly, I was stunned when the crowed went to booing.... My head was just spinning.... Do American's really think that if Blue helmets were patrolling our streets we wouldn't be fighting that?

I swear most of us are such war mongers it makes me sick.

J
 

Avatar

Human test subject #58652
Ya know, I would like to send this to people I think need to hear it.
But unfortunately it's FAR FAR too many words for them.
If it was boiled down to maybe a 5 or 10 word soundbite maybe they would understand it.
Sad but true
 

ltd

Higher Ground
..excellent find HFcomms!!
.. (most) U.S. christians are so fiiled with FEAR that there's an extreme disconnect between their beliefs and their actions! Hypocrisy? .... that's what the Muslims have been claiming for decades regarding the U.S.'s global empire building and only true statesman like Ron Paul have the courage to speak the truth!

So christians, keep booing, it just reveals your ignorance, your sheeple mentality and your true character!!:shk:

.. refer to mu sig line below!
 

atvJim

Inactive
Ron Paul is/was naive. The "Golden Rule " applies to individuals dealing with individuals. A leader of a nation or a state must applies a different standard according to the bible. One such example is justice must be applied at times as an "eye for an eye". Retribution is also at times a biblical mandate for a leader to protect a nation.

This is biblical "milk" not "meat". WAKE-UP!!! YOU CAN'T TURN THE OTHER CHEEK and protect a nation of 300 million.
 

peetar

Inactive
To attribute Jesus' teachings to Ron Pauls' is disgusting. This article is as bad as the ones from the left that ask us...

"wouldn't Jesus have been a Liberal"?

Of course it is F$cking disgusting to drag the Son of Man into politics but even some Ron Paul supporters are doing it now. I thought they/you were above this sort of rubbish. Clearly, I am wrong.
 

peetar

Inactive
..excellent find HFcomms!!
.. (most) U.S. christians are so fiiled with FEAR that there's an extreme disconnect between their beliefs and their actions! Hypocrisy? .... that's what the Muslims have been claiming for decades regarding the U.S.'s global empire building and only true statesman like Ron Paul have the courage to speak the truth!

So christians, keep booing, it just reveals your ignorance, your sheeple mentality and your true character!!:shk:

.. refer to mu sig line below!

And yet again...anyone who disagrees with DR Paul's foreign policies is called "sheeple" or ignorant?! In the same breath it reveals our LACK OF CHARACTER?! No offense but you are going to say such things and then quote the stooge David Icke?!?!?! He's no freind to your lifestyle or America in general. Fankly I am getting sick of reading the bullshit I find constantly on this site regarding Doctor Paul and his infallibility. It's borderline hero-worship and cultish.

I can't see any other candidate I have EVER experienced with such arguments made for them. Other than Obama.
 

Avatar

Human test subject #58652
And yet again...anyone who disagrees with DR Paul's foreign policies is called "sheeple" or ignorant?! In the same breath it reveals our LACK OF CHARACTER?! No offense but you are going to say such things and then quote the stooge David Icke?!?!?! He's no freind to your lifestyle or America in general. Fankly I am getting sick of reading the bullshit I find constantly on this site regarding Doctor Paul and his infallibility. It's borderline hero-worship and cultish.

I can't see any other candidate I have EVER experienced with such arguments made for them. Other than Obama.


No body is making you stay here.
 

Jeff Allen

Producer
..excellent find HFcomms!!
.. (most) U.S. christians are so fiiled with FEAR that there's an extreme disconnect between their beliefs and their actions! Hypocrisy? .... that's what the Muslims have been claiming for decades regarding the U.S.'s global empire building and only true statesman like Ron Paul have the courage to speak the truth!

So christians, keep booing, it just reveals your ignorance, your sheeple mentality and your true character!!:shk:

.. refer to mu sig line below!

Bingo.

Hypocrisy indeed! "ya can't keep 300,000,000 safe by following the golden rule"...really....

A dark future it is....

J
 

HuntingWolf

Membership Revoked
Oh, those evil Crusaders!

How dare they want to reclaim Christian lands and people, from goody-goody satanic Islam.

To bad they didn't turn the other cheek when those goody-goodies came to liberate Europe from those evil Catholics.:rolleyes:
 

Garryowen

Deceased
So christians, keep booing, it just reveals your ignorance, your sheeple mentality and your true character!!

I take it that you know just who was booing and that they were Christians.

I think the article is worthy of consideration. Having listened to some of the testimonies of former terrorists, I understand that they had very distorted opinions of the West in general. America's foreign policy has been inconsistent and sometimes beyond comprehension. Maybe some of that has been the result of giving ambassadorships to political friends. It certainly never hurts to try to avoid hostilities. And sometimes it looks like wars are fought for pride rather than national defense. But it is very hard to discern the true motives of another person. JFK famously responded to critical comments by saying that no one had any right to criticize his actions unless he had read the stack of intelligence briefings he digested every morning. I wasn't one of his worshipers, but I think he made a valid point.

At the same time, do we turn the other cheek to the pirates? The main purpose of government is to be a terror to evildoers. We seem to have lost sight of that purpose.

It's still a thoughtful article.
 

Sebastian

Sebastian
Many folks have replaced god with the state, and call themselves godly. Herein is the clue as to why so many take offense at Paul and those who devote themselves to his cause.

In their hearts they are ashamed of themselves, their candidates and their nation. As long as no one tells them they are naked - it all seems to be OK on the surface. But along comes a candidate like Paul and the lights are on they can see themselves.

Must be hard.

And where did Jesus say that winning an election raised on above the law?
 

Fred

Middle of the road
These are the same debates where people:

- cheered Rick Perry for having so many executions under his watch

- cheered when they heard Ron Paul's former campaign manager died without health insurance (pre-existing condition)

- booed a US soldier when they heard he was gay

How could anyone be surprised by them booing the Golden Rule?
 

FREEBIRD

Has No Life - Lives on TB
From the article:

"But the policy of our current leaders, in BOTH parties, is that we should be LOOKING for fights, until every nation is acting in OUR interests. Listen to the words of the other GOP candidates; you'll hear it. In the debates, they've been especially fond of saying that Pakistan and Afghanistan should be looking out for U.S. interests.

How would we feel if some other power was trying to make us look out for them, instead of our own interests? Oh wait: That's The Golden Rule popping up again." [bold added]

There is no "equal sign" between government acting as a "terror to evildoers" (with the implication that government's authority to do so applies to those within its legitimate jurisdiction) and any country (including ours) attempting to control the entire world to its own benefit.

There are many who equate the US government with the Almighty and assume that every policy that benefits the US (or makes money/power for those in charge) is by definition "God's will".
 

Aardaerimus

Anunnaku
To attribute Jesus' teachings to Ron Pauls' is disgusting. This article is as bad as the ones from the left that ask us...

"wouldn't Jesus have been a Liberal"?

Of course it is F$cking disgusting to drag the Son of Man into politics but even some Ron Paul supporters are doing it now. I thought they/you were above this sort of rubbish. Clearly, I am wrong.

You're a hoot... Who is attributing the teachings of Christ to Ron Paul's foreign policy? I thought it was the exact reverse, rather it's a demonstration that Ron Paul's foreign policy is reflective of the teachings of Christ, which should actually be a good thing to Christians.

Christ proclaimed, "Blessed are the peace makers!", but in our professed Christian culture we're actually hearing "Cursed are the peace makers!". It's your attitude that is "F$cking disgusting".

You Ares worshipers really piss me off. Much like the RINOs, they're "Christians In Name Only".
 

Richard

TB Fanatic
You're a hoot... Who is attributing the teachings of Christ to Ron Paul's foreign policy? I thought it was the exact reverse, rather it's a demonstration that Ron Paul's foreign policy is reflective of the teachings of Christ, which should actually be a good thing to Christians.

Christ proclaimed, "Blessed are the peace makers!", but in our professed Christian culture we're actually hearing "Cursed are the peace makers!". It's your attitude that is "F$cking disgusting".

You Ares worshipers really piss me off. Much like the RINOs, they're "Christians In Name Only".

They are only Christians in the sense that the Inquisition was supposed to be Christian
 

smokin

Veteran Member
Americans are thirsty for war because most have only seen it on the t.v while sitting on the couch drinking a beer. If what is going on across the globe was happening here most would change their attitudes. Most who have seen active duty are AGAINST war. Military donations to Ron Paul is greater than all the other candidates combined. That should be a clue right there.

I can't and don't want to imagine what it would be like if we had Chineese or Russian peace keepers stationed here. After we are disarmed of course. Which is coming closer each day. Up is down, black is white. Insanity rules.
 

PghPanther

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Jesus really warned us to be aware but separate from the world with statements like................ give to Caesar what is Caesars and to God what is God's......

However he did have those that he placed verbal and active wrath on while on Earth...........such as directed towards the Sadducees and Pharisees.............and of course those temple money changers!

But he had the authority to do that.........

When you think about it........the only reason why people booed RP was that we just don't want any issue in the world to ruin the party we've had since WW2...............
 

Emily

One Day Closer
These are the same debates where people:- cheered Rick Perry for having so many executions under his watch

- cheered when they heard Ron Paul's former campaign manager died without health insurance (pre-existing condition)
Really? You have names and counted heads?

- booed a US soldier when they heard he was gay
that is NOT what was being booed. But it makes for great slander for your bias doesn't it?

How could anyone be surprised by them booing the Golden Rule?

The irony of this thread is hilarious.

1. All through the OT God sent Israel in to defeat their enemies.

2. The idea that Christians are being blamed for this when no one knows who those folks were in the audience is pure slander against Christians so it is breaking another teaching of God's and that is bearing false witness.

3. This is a prep site where a lot of you folks have guns and I imagine the point of that is self defense. But the US should not defend herself against our enemies but just turn the other cheek?

Is that what all you guys are going to do when an invader comes to your house?

Were we wrong for going in to rescue the Jews from the concentration camps?

And for the record, Ron Paul was not booed for the golden rule. He was booed because he is blaming the US for 9-11 and trying to pretend Islam is no threat and that we are the aggressors instead of defending this country. If Ron Paul gets elected and befriends the enemy who has called us the great Satan, the war being fought over there will come to our shores. You all going to turn the other cheek then too when they come to demand you submit to Islam or die by the sword?

Is this thread we find hypocrisy at its finest?
 

peetar

Inactive
You're a hoot... Who is attributing the teachings of Christ to Ron Paul's foreign policy? I thought it was the exact reverse, rather it's a demonstration that Ron Paul's foreign policy is reflective of the teachings of Christ, which should actually be a good thing to Christians.

Christ proclaimed, "Blessed are the peace makers!", but in our professed Christian culture we're actually hearing "Cursed are the peace makers!". It's your attitude that is "F$cking disgusting".

You Ares worshipers really piss me off. Much like the RINOs, they're "Christians In Name Only".

Im sorry you ignorant pile of excrement. Was I calling for a f$cking war? WAS I BASHING DR. PAUL?!

No, I was deriding people who compare foreign policy opinions to the teachings of Christ and use it to make a political point. Basically this argument is saying you should vote for this guy or that guy because he is closer to Christ than some other candidate. It's deplorable and everyone knows it.

Now you have called me a worshiper of Ares because I have disagreed with this type of political garbage? If you were standing in front of me right now I guarantee you would shut your fool mouth.
 

peetar

Inactive
Many folks have replaced god with the state, and call themselves godly. Herein is the clue as to why so many take offense at Paul and those who devote themselves to his cause.

In their hearts they are ashamed of themselves, their candidates and their nation. As long as no one tells them they are naked - it all seems to be OK on the surface. But along comes a candidate like Paul and the lights are on they can see themselves.

Must be hard.

And where did Jesus say that winning an election raised on above the law?

My problem is with bringing Jesus into politics or assuming he would approve of any candidate or disapprove of them. It's just bull$hit, plain and simple. I don't come on here singing the praises of any of these candidates. Some of their points I agree with but the sycophantic nature of this stuff with DR Paul is concerning, at best. A sickness for some. Hell, I agree with RP on a host of issues but this is just over the top and sycophantic.
 

RJC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Excellent post Emily.


My problem is with bringing Jesus into politics or assuming he would approve of any candidate or disapprove of them. It's just bull$hit, plain and simple. I don't come on here singing the praises of any of these candidates. Some of their points I agree with but the sycophantic nature of this stuff with DR Paul is concerning, at best. A sickness for some. Hell, I agree with RP on a host of issues but this is just over the top and sycophantic.

It could be explained why the US should do and has done what it does. The historic evolution of the last super power could be explained, Even a case for divine use of the last super power could be attempted. However, the fanaticism of the worshippers of Ron Paul is a phenomenon of this last generation, leaking over a bit into those in their 40’s and 50’s. Their is no reasoning with them as they become verbally combative, feeling everyone is ignorant and naive other than themselves...

Ron Paul is a charlatan, duplicitous at best with no useful purpose but self-glorification. He has no respect from his colleagues or even the Libertarian party he once represented. The motive of his agenda is obvious to anyone that will stand back and attempt to be objective. But worship does not work like that. A worship from a cultist following is what Ron Paul seeks.

Nothing Ron Paul advocates is doable, whether that is good or bad it is reality. Reality is hard when reality is not fair or even correct. But there is a reality. And the reality is that there are movements of deceptions of the masses to follow after radicals or dependency ideologies such as socialism.

Mankind is destined to become like a restless and tumultuous sea.
 
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