ALERT U.S. Troops Have Been Deployed in Taiwan for at Least a Year

TFergeson

Non Solum Simul Stare
Dupe, as this is already posted in the China Threatens to Invade Taiwan thread, but this is HUGE and needs visibility. The Chinese are going to be pissed, and this may just be the catalyst for them to take action. This is all the buzz right now, as we await the Chinese response.
 
Last edited:

jward

passin' thru
WSJ News Exclusive | U.S. Troops Have Been Deployed in Taiwan for at Least a Year
Gordon Lubold

9-11 minutes


WASHINGTON—A U.S. special-operations unit and a contingent of Marines have been secretly operating in Taiwan to train military forces there, U.S. officials said, part of efforts to shore up the island’s defenses as concern regarding potential Chinese aggression mounts.
About two dozen members of U.S. special-operations and support troops are conducting training for small units of Taiwan’s ground forces, the officials said. The U.S. Marines are working with local maritime forces on small-boat training. The American forces have been operating in Taiwan for at least a year, the officials said.
The U.S. special-operations deployment is a sign of concern within the Pentagon over Taiwan’s tactical capabilities in light of Beijing’s yearslong military buildup and recent threatening moves against the island.

Taiwan and U.S. officials have expressed alarm over nearly 150 flights near Taiwan in the past week by Chinese military aircraft. The Chinese aircraft have included J-16 jet fighters, H-6 strategic bombers and Y-8 submarine-spotting aircraft and have set a record for such sorties, according to the Taiwan government.

The Chinese flights, while not entering the area Taiwan defines as its airspace, have been a reminder of the Communist Party’s view of Taiwan as a part of China. Beijing has vowed to take control of the island by force if necessary. Top U.S. military officials testified earlier this year that Beijing is likely to try to use force in its designs on Taiwan within the next six years. Other officials have said China’s timeline could be sooner than that.

Taiwan’s defense minister, Chiu Kuo-cheng, warned Wednesday that China would be able to launch a full-scale attack on Taiwan with minimal losses by 2025.

Fears of Chinese Move on Taiwan Weigh on U.S.-China Relations

0:00 / 1:57
1:57


thumbstrip.jpg




Fears of Chinese Move on Taiwan Weigh on U.S.-China Relations


Fears of Chinese Move on Taiwan Weigh on U.S.-China Relations
Taiwan and China have had an unstable coexistence for more than seven decades, and concerns are rising that China might move against Taiwan to force a unification. WSJ’s Gerald F. Seib explains some of the causes for worry. Photo illustration: Laura Kammermann

White House and Pentagon officials declined to comment on the deployment of the U.S. military force. There was no immediate response to requests for comment from Taipei. The deployment is rotational, the U.S. officials said, meaning that members of the U.S. units serve on a variable schedule.


China’s Foreign Ministry said in a statement that it urged the U.S. to adhere to prior agreements and to cease military aid to Taiwan. “China will take all necessary steps to protect its sovereignty and territorial integrity,” it said.


Asian media reports last year suggesting a possible U.S. Marine deployment in Taiwan were never confirmed by U.S. officials. The presence of U.S. special operations forces hasn’t been previously reported.


The special-operations unit and the Marine contingent are a small but symbolic effort by the U.S. to increase Taipei’s confidence in building its defenses against potential Chinese aggression. Current and former U.S. government officials and military experts believe that deepening ties between U.S. and Taiwan military units is better than simply selling Taiwan military equipment.


The U.S. has sold Taiwan billions of dollars of military hardware in recent years, but current and former officials believe Taiwan must begin to invest in its defense more heavily, and smartly.


“Taiwan badly neglected its national defense for the first 15 years or so of this century, buying too much expensive equipment that will get destroyed in the first hours of a conflict, and too little in the way of cheaper but lethal systems—antiship missiles, smart sea mines and well-trained reserve and auxiliary forces—that could seriously complicate Beijing’s war plans,” said Matt Pottinger, a distinguished visiting fellow at Stanford University’s conservative Hoover Institution who served as a deputy national security adviser during the Trump administration.


im-413001


Chinese military aircraft that have flown near Taiwan include H-6 bombers like this one, according to authorities in Taipei.
Photo: Taiwan Ministry of National Defense/Shutterstock

Mr. Pottinger said Taiwan’s overall military spending was similar to that of Singapore, which has a quarter of Taiwan’s population and “doesn’t have China breathing down its neck.” Mr. Pottinger said he was unaware of any American troop deployment to Taiwan.


In May, Christopher Maier, who later became assistant secretary of defense for special operations, told the Senate Armed Services Committee during his confirmation hearing that the U.S. should be considering strongly such a deployment of forces to help Taiwan strengthen its capabilities. Mr. Maier, who worked at the Pentagon under the Trump administration, didn’t say that special-operations forces already were operating there.


Mr. Maier told senators in May that American special-operations units could show forces in Taiwan how to defend against an amphibious landing or train for dozens of other operations needed to defend the island.


“I do think that is something that we should be considering strongly as we think about competition across the span of different capabilities we can apply,” he said then, referring to special-operations units.


While some aspects of the U.S. deployment might be classified, it is also considered politically sensitive given the tense relations between the U.S. and China, according to U.S. officials.


U.S.-China ties are strained over trade, the Covid-19 pandemic, human rights and regional security, including in the South China Sea. National-security adviser Jake Sullivan met in Zurich on Wednesday with Yang Jiechi, China’s top diplomat.


China is likely to view the presence of the U.S. military forces as a violation of commitments made by Washington in past agreements. In one establishing formal relations between the U.S. and China in 1979, Washington agreed to sever formal ties with Taiwan, terminate a defense agreement and withdraw its forces from the island. The U.S. later said it would reduce arms sales to Taiwan.

WSJ News Exclusive | U.S. Troops Have Been Deployed in Taiwan for at Least a Year

Not a dupe, just a link to the thread in CHINA THREATENS TO INVADE TAIWAN thread, as this is HUGE and needs visibility. The Chinese are going to be pissed, and this may just be the catalyst for them to take action.



Please respond in the China threatens to invade Taiwan thread so that we can keep visibility on the story.
Thanks for Trumpeting the news, TFergeson- here's the article, if folks want to discuss it more fully in a stand alone thread. . .
 

TFergeson

Non Solum Simul Stare
WSJ News Exclusive | U.S. Troops Have Been Deployed in Taiwan for at Least a Year
Gordon Lubold

9-11 minutes


WASHINGTON—A U.S. special-operations unit and a contingent of Marines have been secretly operating in Taiwan to train military forces there, U.S. officials said, part of efforts to shore up the island’s defenses as concern regarding potential Chinese aggression mounts.
About two dozen members of U.S. special-operations and support troops are conducting training for small units of Taiwan’s ground forces, the officials said. The U.S. Marines are working with local maritime forces on small-boat training. The American forces have been operating in Taiwan for at least a year, the officials said.
The U.S. special-operations deployment is a sign of concern within the Pentagon over Taiwan’s tactical capabilities in light of Beijing’s yearslong military buildup and recent threatening moves against the island.

Taiwan and U.S. officials have expressed alarm over nearly 150 flights near Taiwan in the past week by Chinese military aircraft. The Chinese aircraft have included J-16 jet fighters, H-6 strategic bombers and Y-8 submarine-spotting aircraft and have set a record for such sorties, according to the Taiwan government.

The Chinese flights, while not entering the area Taiwan defines as its airspace, have been a reminder of the Communist Party’s view of Taiwan as a part of China. Beijing has vowed to take control of the island by force if necessary. Top U.S. military officials testified earlier this year that Beijing is likely to try to use force in its designs on Taiwan within the next six years. Other officials have said China’s timeline could be sooner than that.

Taiwan’s defense minister, Chiu Kuo-cheng, warned Wednesday that China would be able to launch a full-scale attack on Taiwan with minimal losses by 2025.

Fears of Chinese Move on Taiwan Weigh on U.S.-China Relations

0:00 / 1:57
1:57


thumbstrip.jpg




Fears of Chinese Move on Taiwan Weigh on U.S.-China Relations


Fears of Chinese Move on Taiwan Weigh on U.S.-China Relations
Taiwan and China have had an unstable coexistence for more than seven decades, and concerns are rising that China might move against Taiwan to force a unification. WSJ’s Gerald F. Seib explains some of the causes for worry. Photo illustration: Laura Kammermann

White House and Pentagon officials declined to comment on the deployment of the U.S. military force. There was no immediate response to requests for comment from Taipei. The deployment is rotational, the U.S. officials said, meaning that members of the U.S. units serve on a variable schedule.


China’s Foreign Ministry said in a statement that it urged the U.S. to adhere to prior agreements and to cease military aid to Taiwan. “China will take all necessary steps to protect its sovereignty and territorial integrity,” it said.


Asian media reports last year suggesting a possible U.S. Marine deployment in Taiwan were never confirmed by U.S. officials. The presence of U.S. special operations forces hasn’t been previously reported.


The special-operations unit and the Marine contingent are a small but symbolic effort by the U.S. to increase Taipei’s confidence in building its defenses against potential Chinese aggression. Current and former U.S. government officials and military experts believe that deepening ties between U.S. and Taiwan military units is better than simply selling Taiwan military equipment.


The U.S. has sold Taiwan billions of dollars of military hardware in recent years, but current and former officials believe Taiwan must begin to invest in its defense more heavily, and smartly.


“Taiwan badly neglected its national defense for the first 15 years or so of this century, buying too much expensive equipment that will get destroyed in the first hours of a conflict, and too little in the way of cheaper but lethal systems—antiship missiles, smart sea mines and well-trained reserve and auxiliary forces—that could seriously complicate Beijing’s war plans,” said Matt Pottinger, a distinguished visiting fellow at Stanford University’s conservative Hoover Institution who served as a deputy national security adviser during the Trump administration.


im-413001


Chinese military aircraft that have flown near Taiwan include H-6 bombers like this one, according to authorities in Taipei.
Photo: Taiwan Ministry of National Defense/Shutterstock

Mr. Pottinger said Taiwan’s overall military spending was similar to that of Singapore, which has a quarter of Taiwan’s population and “doesn’t have China breathing down its neck.” Mr. Pottinger said he was unaware of any American troop deployment to Taiwan.


In May, Christopher Maier, who later became assistant secretary of defense for special operations, told the Senate Armed Services Committee during his confirmation hearing that the U.S. should be considering strongly such a deployment of forces to help Taiwan strengthen its capabilities. Mr. Maier, who worked at the Pentagon under the Trump administration, didn’t say that special-operations forces already were operating there.


Mr. Maier told senators in May that American special-operations units could show forces in Taiwan how to defend against an amphibious landing or train for dozens of other operations needed to defend the island.


“I do think that is something that we should be considering strongly as we think about competition across the span of different capabilities we can apply,” he said then, referring to special-operations units.


While some aspects of the U.S. deployment might be classified, it is also considered politically sensitive given the tense relations between the U.S. and China, according to U.S. officials.


U.S.-China ties are strained over trade, the Covid-19 pandemic, human rights and regional security, including in the South China Sea. National-security adviser Jake Sullivan met in Zurich on Wednesday with Yang Jiechi, China’s top diplomat.


China is likely to view the presence of the U.S. military forces as a violation of commitments made by Washington in past agreements. In one establishing formal relations between the U.S. and China in 1979, Washington agreed to sever formal ties with Taiwan, terminate a defense agreement and withdraw its forces from the island. The U.S. later said it would reduce arms sales to Taiwan.

WSJ News Exclusive | U.S. Troops Have Been Deployed in Taiwan for at Least a Year


Thanks for Trumpeting the news, TFergeson- here's the article, if folks want to discuss it more fully in a stand alone thread. . .

Thanks Jward! Ill modify my post accordingly.
 

mecoastie

Veteran Member
It is secret so as not to rile up China anymore than they are. I dont see this as much of a dot. Our soldiers go all over the world training other countries forces. When we start hearing about them moving Patriot batteries and numbers of troops to Taiwan then it will kick off quickly.
 

jward

passin' thru
So..not entirely new "news"




Jeff M. Smith
@Cold_Peace_

52m

Which politician leaked this a few months back and everyone was like, "Don't worry, he's crazy."
___________________
Christopher Clary
@clary_co

41m

I think many people said, "He either revealed a secret or he had VERY out of date information." I think still unclear what he--or more likely his staffer--knew when the tweet went out but neither is a good look.

___________________
Steven Stashwick
@StevenStashwick


Replying to
@clary_co
@Cold_Peace_
and
@tshugart3
It was Cornyn, and the tweet claimed 30k troops in Taiwan, not 30. And as@MicahZenko pointed out, it's more that these troops were "unnoticed" than "secret" because their presence has been listed on public DoD personnel reports: https://dwp.dmdc.osd.mil/dwp/app/dod-data-reports/workforce-reports

10:03 AM · Oct 7, 2021·Twitter for Android
 

Doughboy42

Veteran Member
China sees Taiwan as part of their sovereign soil. It may be a breakaway republic, but it is still China. We have recognized the One China Policy. Our troops on Taiwan soil may be seen as an invasion by America. And acted upon accordingly.
 

day late

money? whats that?
About two dozen members of U.S. special-operations and support troops are conducting training for small units of Taiwan’s ground forces, the officials said.

Remember, it takes ten people to keep one grunt in the field. That's who these support troops are.
 

TFergeson

Non Solum Simul Stare
China sees Taiwan as part of their sovereign soil. It may be a breakaway republic, but it is still China. We have recognized the One China Policy. Our troops on Taiwan soil may be seen as an invasion by America. And acted upon accordingly.

I said the same thing. China has been looking for an excuse. The problem fo us is, they consider Taiwan to be part of China, so by their view we have troops in their country training forces to overthrow their government. Casus belli if Ive ever heard it.
 

Seeker22

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I do see this as a
th
. We have 2 million commie assets dug in our University system. I have those names resting quiet on a thumb drive. Nobody cares. Our military is awash with them (hey, I see you Milley, you POS!) so if somehow things do go kinetic, it will end badly for us. Not rocket surgery here. Remove the enemy from your own country before you go abroad to try same.

Those in control at the top have no intention of doing that, as they are fellow travelers.
 

Illini Warrior

Illini Warrior
Taiwan "neglected" it's defense??? >>> they got locked out from the sophisticated weapons market for decades until Prez Trump opened that door ...

since the 1970s when the UN booted them out - no US prez would even take a phone call from Taiwan - the Taiwanese Prez gave his usual try with Prez Trump and was greeted for the first time in decades - HUGE HUGE resistance by all the State Department little azzholes buzzing around the WH - OMG !!! OMG !!! OMG!!
 

Border Collie Dad

Flat Earther
It really works so well when we train other peoples' armies.

Afghanistan, Iran and Viet Nam come to mind.

What the hell are we doing training anybody?
We can't win our own wars.
 
  • OMG
Reactions: ltd

Infoscout

The Dude Abides
I would get them home now, there is no leadership in DC left to lead them. Bring them home before they are sacrificed to appease Communist China
 

AlfaMan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Glad to see the cat's out of the bag; pity it's happened under Comrade Joe's administration. Comrade Joe will sacrifice these troops in a heartbeat to stay nice nice with Winnie the Xi.

Comrade Joe killed 13 marines a month ago in Kabul; these SF troops near CCK might be next.

This news explains the increase in ChiCom flights popping the ROC ADIZ this week-Commie China hugely lost face when this news broke. Loss of face to the point of generating a response far beyond "normal" or "measured". Like, all the H6/TU-16 Badger flights popping the ADIZ.

I sincerely hope and pray that when this war kicks off; the ROC will vaporize every city in mainland China. Burn the communist infrastructure to the ground and make the rubble bounce-and glow. Death to the communist Chinese-slow and painfully done preferred.
 

jward

passin' thru
Apparently EVERYONE knew, for months- and one has to assume China knew it long before anyone announced, so hopefully there will be no cause for them to seize upon, beyond the trash talking as they rehash it


Likely China knew. With this becoming a major news item, it will cause a loss of "Face" to the Chinese and will call for a response.
So..not entirely new "news"

Jeff M. Smith
@Cold_Peace_

52m

Which politician leaked this a few months back and everyone was like, "Don't worry, he's crazy."
___________________
Christopher Clary
@clary_co

41m

I think many people said, "He either revealed a secret or he had VERY out of date information." I think still unclear what he--or more likely his staffer--knew when the tweet went out but neither is a good look.

___________________
Steven Stashwick
@StevenStashwick


Replying to
@clary_co
@Cold_Peace_
and
@tshugart3
It was Cornyn, and the tweet claimed 30k troops in Taiwan, not 30. And as@MicahZenko pointed out, it's more that these troops were "unnoticed" than "secret" because their presence has been listed on public DoD personnel reports: https://dwp.dmdc.osd.mil/dwp/app/dod-data-reports/workforce-reports

10:03 AM · Oct 7, 2021·Twitter for Android
 

jward

passin' thru
Ankit Panda
@nktpnd



Amused by the idea that China would find out about US troops being in Taiwan by reading about it in the WSJ.
Anyway, on a more serious note, this should probably inform how we think about PRC coercive behaviors against Taiwan in the last few months.
___________________________________

Steven Stashwick
@StevenStashwich



The descriptions in these 2 TW articles -- that SF and Marine Raiders each did a couple-week exercise a year ago -- strikes me as much more plausible and realistic versions than the WSJ claim that US troops've been continuously operating in TW for a year.
. . .to the point that I sort of question either the WSJ's interpretation of their source or the source's understanding of what was/is really going on, which raises other questions about the article.
______________


Steven Stashwick
@StevenStashwick


The news in today's WSJ article appears to really be that a US official leaked/confirmed what Taiwanese navy officials revealed and then hastily retracted *last fall* -- that Marine Raiders were providing infiltration training to TW marines.
View: https://twitter.com/StevenStashwick/status/1446156301705285635?s=20


. . .and this followed news/leaks that US Army Special Forces had done a training exercise in Taiwan that summer, and implications that small exchanges like this were somewhat routine.
View: https://twitter.com/StevenStashwick/status/1446156305664708609?s=20
 

jward

passin' thru
China Fires Back at Reports of U.S. Commandos in Taiwan
‘See whether the PLA will launch a targeted air strike to eliminate those U.S. invaders!’ the chief of the Chinese Communist Party’s propaganda outlet threatened on Thursday.


By Paul D. Shinkman
|
Oct. 7, 2021, at 12:33 p.m.


U.S. News & World Report
China Fires Back at Reports of U.S. Troops in Taiwan
More
[IMG alt="FILE - In this Feb. 14, 2019, file photo, Chinese staffers adjust the U.S. and Chinese flags before the opening session of trade negotiations between U.S. and Chinese trade representatives at the Diaoyutai State Guesthouse in Beijing. In a relationship as fraught as America's and China's, just an agreement that talks were productive was a sign of progress. Nine months into Joe Biden's presidency, the two sides finally appear to be trying to ease tensions that date from the Trump administration — though U.S. complaints about Chinese policies on trade, Taiwan and other issues are little diminished. (AP Photo/Mark Schiefelbein, File)
"]https://www.usnews.com/dims4/USNEWS/e24c9c1/2147483647/thumbnail/640x420/quality/85/?url=http://media.beam.usnews.com/32/f7/997ec5604d6bb31dd606767270ae/211007newstaiwan-editorial.jpg[/IMG]
China has previously indicated it would retaliate swiftly and immediately to any indication the U.S. had deployed military forces to Taiwan. (Mark Schiefelbein/AP-File)
Leaders in China almost immediately expressed outrage Thursday at a new report indicating the U.S. has secretly stationed forces on Taiwan in an attempt to bolster the island nation's defenses against the increasing likelihood of an attack from the mainland.
[
READ:
China Tests Taiwan, U.S. With Warplane Flights ]

The Wall Street Journal first reported that a small unit of special operations forces have been based in Taiwan for at least a year to train local military forces – a move China has previously said would violate contentious agreements between Washington and Beijing that have maintained a fragile security understanding regarding Taiwan for decades. Asian outlets first reported last year the possible presence of Marines there.
"Why just two dozen members? Why secretly? The US should send 240 servicemen publicly, in US military uniform, and make public where they are stationed," Hu Xijin, the editor in chief of China's English language Global Times, considered a mouthpiece of the Chinese Communist Party, wrote in a tweet accompanying the Journal's article. He added of China's military, "See whether the PLA will launch a targeted air strike to eliminate those US invaders!"
Political Cartoons
85




China has previously indicated it would retaliate swiftly and immediately to any indication the U.S. had deployed military forces to Taiwan. When Sen. John Cornyn, Texas Republican, claimed without explanation in August that the U.S. had roughly 30,000 forces on Taiwan, state news in Beijing fired back that, if true, the Chinese military would "crush them by force."
What have previously been downplayed as idle threats have taken on new potency in recent days, following China's steady deployment of aircraft into Taiwan's air defense zone on an unprecedented scale. Dozens of warplanes entered Taiwanese Air Defense Identification Zone – technically outside the island's self-described airspace – on Friday and Saturday, the date of China's annual celebration marking the founding of the Chinese Communist Party, followed by more than 50 on Monday, almost doubling the scale of its largest previous provocation in June.
The latest round of threats comes at a particularly contentious time for relations between China and the U.S., which in many ways have arrived at an all time low following the combative economic and diplomatic policies of the Trump administration and Beijing's increased aggressiveness in recent months. U.S. defense officials earlier this year warned that China may try to invade Taiwan in as little as six years, seizing territory it claims as a renegade province of the mainland. Pentagon planners have begun referring to the island as "Fortress Taiwan."
[
MORE:
China Threatens New Western Alliance ]
Since the latest aerial incursions, Taiwan's defense minister, Chiu Kuo-cheng, has said a full-scale attack may now come as soon as 2025.
It was not immediately clear whether the latest news would affect some signs of thawing in relations between the Biden administration and President Xi Jinping's government. Jake Sullivan, the national security adviser, met with his Chinese counterparts in Zurich, Switzerland earlier this week, their first gathering since tense talks in Anchorage, Alaska in March.
Beijing subsequently described the latest talks as "productive" and said they "can bear fruits."
President Joe Biden announced this week he had agreed to a virtual meeting with Xi before the end of the year.

Tags: China, Taiwan, United States, military, world, world news
https://www.usnews.com/news/world-r...-reports-of-us-commandos-in-taiwan?src=usn_tw
 

China Connection

TB Fanatic
Update: Senator reveals '30,000 US troops stationed in Taiwan island,' equal to ‘declaring war on China’ if it's true;tweet deleted after wide controversy
By
Liu Caiyu
Published: Aug 17, 2021 04:37 PM Updated: Aug 17, 2021 08:43 PM

Screen shot

Screen shot

A senior US senator, also a member of US Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, on his social media revealed that the US has 30,000 soldiers stationed in China's Taiwan island. If the tweet is correct, it is a military invasion and occupation of China's Taiwan and equivalent to the US declaring war on China. China could immediately activate its Anti-Secession Law to destroy and expel US troops in Taiwan and reunify Taiwan militarily, some experts noted.

Some others believe the news leaked by the US senator cannot be true because 30,000 is not some small amount that the US Army could hide and not being noticed in the island, and the US has nothing to gain by stationing the US Army in the island. Sacrificing its own interests to satisfy Taiwan separatists also does not fit with US foreign policy, just like the US did in Afghanistan.

In the tweet, Senator John Cornyn listed the number of US troops stationed in South Korea, Germany, Japan, China's Taiwan and on the African continent to show how the number of US soldiers has dwindled in Afghanistan. But in the process, Cornyn revealed the shocking news that there are 30,000 US troops in China's Taiwan island.

His tweet raised a wave of doubts among netizens with many commenting below his tweet: "how come the US still has troops in Taiwan," "so the US army has a secret division in Taiwan," "Cornyn must have mistaken the number," and "this should have been before 1979."

Cornyn did not immediately delete his tweet or make any corrections after he posted it on early Tuesday. He deleted the tweet until later his tweet ignited wide controversy and media attention.

Neither the senator nor the US government made any comments over the tweet.

The Taiwan island "defense department" made a low-key denial on Tuesday, saying it is wrong and it would not comment on it, Taiwan-based media outlet SETN.com reported.

As a senior senator from Texas, who was once a Republican Senate Majority Whip for the 114th and 115th Congresses, and now a member of US Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, Cornyn should be aware of the US government's military intelligence.

Li Haidong, a professor at the Institute of International Relations of the China Foreign Affairs University, told the Global Times on Tuesday that such ridiculous and shocking news is more likely the result from the old age of the senator that makes him a dotard or his confusion about the data with previous data in the 1970s or 1960s. But we have to acknowledge that there are also some US senators fabricating data to boost their political careers.

Whether it is a mistake or hype, we could see the US politician has a lack of political sensitivity and is irresponsible in making public remarks, which is jaw-dropping, Li said.

"I would choose not to believe this is the real case," Song Zhongping, a Chinese military expert and TV commentator, told the Global Times on Tuesday. He said the US cannot conceal 30,000 soldiers plus their equipment in the island. US would not dare or take such risk to do so. But we cannot rule out the possibility that the US would dispatch such amount of troops when a military conflict breaks out in the Taiwan Straits.

If the US and China went to a war because US brazenly stationed troops in the island of Taiwan, whether 30,000 or 1,000, the price cannot be paid off for the US and the US clearly understands it. It is impossible for the US to be silly enough to sacrifice itself to satisfy Taiwan separatists, Li noted.

Foreign policies of the US clearly demonstrate that the US would rather sacrifice its allies to satisfy its own demands and interests, as it has never been the opposite, and the scenarios in Afghanistan, Vietnam, Iraq and Syria are the evidence, the expert explained.

Also the day happens to be August 17, the day marking the signing of the US-PRC Joint Communique (1982), which was achieved after contentious negotiations on the US arms sales to Taiwan, and acknowledged Taiwan is part of China.

Intentional or not, such information being released on this special day is loathing and leaves the public an impression that the US may have gone back on its words as the communique stated, or whether the US is trying to probe China's reactions over it through a charade. The US government and the Taiwan authorities should clarify Cornyn's tweet, Chinese experts urged.

China and the US established diplomatic relations in 1979 on the condition of the US ceasing official relations with the island and withdrawing all US military from the island. Secretly hiding 30,000 troops in Taiwan island would seriously violate the Sino-US diplomatic agreement, seriously violate international law, and even the domestic law of the US, a Chinese expert specializing on the Taiwan question told the Global Times on condition of anonymity.

If the US really secretly stations 30,000 soldiers in China's Taiwan island, the US as an external force is interfering with China's internal affairs which violates China's Anti-Secession Law. This would touch off a military conflict between the two countries, Song said.

China firmly opposes any US military personnel involvement in Taiwan affairs, or US soldiers setting foot on the island or launching any kind of military cooperation with the army of Taiwan island, Song said.

Some observers said if this is true, it's tantamount to a military invasion and occupation of China's Taiwan, and an act of declaring war on China. If the US really has troops stationed in Taiwan - even if the number is small - it would be a serious matter that has broken the bottom line.

Those US troops must withdraw immediately and unconditionally, and the US government and Taiwan authorities must publicly apologize for this, observers noted.

 

China Connection

TB Fanatic
The US must avoid war with China over Taiwan at all costs
Lt Col Daniel L Davis (ret)


The prevailing mood among Washington insiders is to fight if China attempts to conquer Taiwan. That would be a mistake
Taiwan: 52 Chinese PLA warplanes spotted in Taiwan’s ADIZ<br>epa09505557 An undated handout photo made available by the Taiwan Ministry of National Defense on 04 October 2021 shows a Chinese PLA Xian H-6 jet bomber, following the incursion of 52 Chinese PLA military aircrafts into Taiwan’s ADIZ (issued 04 October 2021). According to Taiwan's Ministry of National Defense, a total of 52 Chinese warplanes including thirty-four J-16 fighter jets, two SU-30 multirole fighters, two Y-8 ASW maritime patrol aircrafts, two KJ-500 (AEW & C) airbornes, and twelve Xian H-6 bombers sent in two waves by China have been spotted in the ADIZ of the self-ruled island on 04 October 2021, making it a record number of incursion in recent weeks and months. EPA/TAIWAN MINISTRY OF NATIONAL DEFENSE HANDOUT EDITORIAL USE ONLY/NO SALES

‘There is no rational scenario in which the United States could end up in a better, more secure place after a war with China. ‘ Photograph: Taiwan Ministry Of National Defense/EPA
Tue 5 Oct 2021 21.18 AEDT



643

Since last Friday, the People’s Republic of China has launched a total of 155 warplanes – the most ever over four consecutive days – into Taiwan’s Air Defense Identification Zone; Ned Price said the state department was “very concerned”. There have been more than 500 such flights through nine months this year, as opposed to 300 all of last year.
Before war comes to the Indo-Pacific and Washington faces pressure to fight a potentially existential war, American policymakers must face the cold, hard reality that fighting China over Taiwan risks an almost-certain military defeat – and gambles we won’t stumble into a nuclear war.

Bluntly put, America should refuse to be drawn into a no-win war with Beijing. It needs to be said up front: there would be no palatable choice for Washington if China finally makes good on its decades-long threat to take Taiwan by force. Either choose a bad, bitter-tasting outcome or a self-destructive one in which our existence is put at risk.
The prevailing mood in Washington among officials and opinion leaders is to fight if China attempts to conquer Taiwan by force. In a speech at the Center for Strategic Studies last Friday, the deputy secretary of defense, Kathleen Hicks, said that if Beijing invades Taiwan, “we have a significant amount of capability forward in the region to tamp down any such potential”.
Either Hicks is unaware of how little wartime capacity we actually have forward deployed in the Indo-Pacific or she’s unaware of how significant China’s capacity is off its shores, but whichever the case, we are in no way guaranteed to “tamp down” a Chinese invasion of Taiwan.
Earlier this year, Senator Rick Scott and Representative Guy Reschenthaler introduced the Taiwan Invasion Prevention Act which, Representative Reschenthaler said, would authorize “the president to use military force to defend Taiwan against a direct attack”. In the event of an actual attack, there would be enormous pressure to fast-track such a bill to authorize Biden to act. We must resist this temptation.
As I have previously detailed, there is no rational scenario in which the United States could end up in a better, more secure place after a war with China. The best that could be hoped for would be a pyrrhic victory in which we are saddled with becoming the permanent defense force for Taiwan (costing us hundreds of billions a year and the equally permanent requirement to be ready for the inevitable Chinese counter-attack).
The most likely outcome would be a conventional defeat of our forces in which China ultimately succeeds, despite our intervention – at the cost of large numbers of our jets being shot down, ships being sunk, and thousands of our service personnel killed. But the worst case is a conventional war spirals out of control and escalates into a nuclear exchange.
That leaves as the best option something most Americans find unsatisfying: refuse to engage in direct combat against China on behalf of Taiwan. Doing so will allow the United States to emerge on the other side of a China/Taiwan war with our global military and economic power intact.
It would take Beijing decades to overcome the losses incurred from a war to take Taiwan, even if Beijing triumphs
That’s not to suggest we stand passively aside and let China run over Taiwan with impunity. The most effective course of action for Washington would be to condemn China in the strongest possible terms, lead a global movement that will enact crippling sanctions against Beijing, and make them an international pariah. China’s pain wouldn’t be limited to economics, however.
It would take Beijing decades to overcome the losses incurred from a war to take Taiwan, even if Beijing triumphs. The United States and our western allies, on the other hand, would remain at full military power, dominate the international business markets, and have the moral high ground to keep China hemmed in like nothing that presently exists. Xi would be seen as an unquestioned aggressor, even by other Asian regimes, and the fallout against China could knock them back decades. Our security would be vastly improved from what it is today – and incalculably higher than if we foolishly tried to fight a war with China.
Publicly, Washington should continue to embrace strategic ambiguity but privately convey to Taiwanese leaders that we will not fight a war with China. That would greatly incentivize Taipei to make whatever political moves and engage in any negotiation necessary to ensure the perpetuation of the status quo. The blunt, hard reality is that a Taiwan maintaining the status quo is far better than a smoldering wreck of an island conquered by Beijing.
The only way the US could have our security harmed would be to allow ourselves to be drawn into a war we’re likely to lose over an issue peripheral to US security. In the event China takes Taiwan by force, Washington should stay out of the fray and lead a global effort to ostracize China, helping ensure our security will be strengthened for a generation to come.
  • Daniel L Davis is a senior fellow for defense priorities and a former lieutenant colonel in the US army who deployed into combat zones four times. He is the author of The Eleventh Hour in 2020 America
 

TammyinWI

Talk is cheap
Dupe, as this is already posted in the China Threatens to Invade Taiwan thread, but this is HUGE and needs visibility. The Chinese are going to be pissed, and this may just be the catalyst for them to take action. This is all the buzz right now, as we await the Chinese response.

This is upsetting, but I "liked" the post because it needs its own thread. Another dot. Sigh.
 

steve graham

Veteran Member
I said the same thing. China has been looking for an excuse. The problem fo us is, they consider Taiwan to be part of China, so by their view we have troops in their country training forces to overthrow their government. Casus belli if Ive ever heard it.
You're so right, but let's pray the Chinese will be smart enough to restrain themselves. These days, who the hell knows!!
 

steve graham

Veteran Member
Update: Senator reveals '30,000 US troops stationed in Taiwan island,' equal to ‘declaring war on China’ if it's true;tweet deleted after wide controversy
By
Liu Caiyu
Published: Aug 17, 2021 04:37 PM Updated: Aug 17, 2021 08:43 PM

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A senior US senator, also a member of US Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, on his social media revealed that the US has 30,000 soldiers stationed in China's Taiwan island. If the tweet is correct, it is a military invasion and occupation of China's Taiwan and equivalent to the US declaring war on China. China could immediately activate its Anti-Secession Law to destroy and expel US troops in Taiwan and reunify Taiwan militarily, some experts noted.

Some others believe the news leaked by the US senator cannot be true because 30,000 is not some small amount that the US Army could hide and not being noticed in the island, and the US has nothing to gain by stationing the US Army in the island. Sacrificing its own interests to satisfy Taiwan separatists also does not fit with US foreign policy, just like the US did in Afghanistan.

In the tweet, Senator John Cornyn listed the number of US troops stationed in South Korea, Germany, Japan, China's Taiwan and on the African continent to show how the number of US soldiers has dwindled in Afghanistan. But in the process, Cornyn revealed the shocking news that there are 30,000 US troops in China's Taiwan island.

His tweet raised a wave of doubts among netizens with many commenting below his tweet: "how come the US still has troops in Taiwan," "so the US army has a secret division in Taiwan," "Cornyn must have mistaken the number," and "this should have been before 1979."

Cornyn did not immediately delete his tweet or make any corrections after he posted it on early Tuesday. He deleted the tweet until later his tweet ignited wide controversy and media attention.

Neither the senator nor the US government made any comments over the tweet.

The Taiwan island "defense department" made a low-key denial on Tuesday, saying it is wrong and it would not comment on it, Taiwan-based media outlet SETN.com reported.

As a senior senator from Texas, who was once a Republican Senate Majority Whip for the 114th and 115th Congresses, and now a member of US Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, Cornyn should be aware of the US government's military intelligence.

Li Haidong, a professor at the Institute of International Relations of the China Foreign Affairs University, told the Global Times on Tuesday that such ridiculous and shocking news is more likely the result from the old age of the senator that makes him a dotard or his confusion about the data with previous data in the 1970s or 1960s. But we have to acknowledge that there are also some US senators fabricating data to boost their political careers.

Whether it is a mistake or hype, we could see the US politician has a lack of political sensitivity and is irresponsible in making public remarks, which is jaw-dropping, Li said.

"I would choose not to believe this is the real case," Song Zhongping, a Chinese military expert and TV commentator, told the Global Times on Tuesday. He said the US cannot conceal 30,000 soldiers plus their equipment in the island. US would not dare or take such risk to do so. But we cannot rule out the possibility that the US would dispatch such amount of troops when a military conflict breaks out in the Taiwan Straits.

If the US and China went to a war because US brazenly stationed troops in the island of Taiwan, whether 30,000 or 1,000, the price cannot be paid off for the US and the US clearly understands it. It is impossible for the US to be silly enough to sacrifice itself to satisfy Taiwan separatists, Li noted.

Foreign policies of the US clearly demonstrate that the US would rather sacrifice its allies to satisfy its own demands and interests, as it has never been the opposite, and the scenarios in Afghanistan, Vietnam, Iraq and Syria are the evidence, the expert explained.

Also the day happens to be August 17, the day marking the signing of the US-PRC Joint Communique (1982), which was achieved after contentious negotiations on the US arms sales to Taiwan, and acknowledged Taiwan is part of China.

Intentional or not, such information being released on this special day is loathing and leaves the public an impression that the US may have gone back on its words as the communique stated, or whether the US is trying to probe China's reactions over it through a charade. The US government and the Taiwan authorities should clarify Cornyn's tweet, Chinese experts urged.

China and the US established diplomatic relations in 1979 on the condition of the US ceasing official relations with the island and withdrawing all US military from the island. Secretly hiding 30,000 troops in Taiwan island would seriously violate the Sino-US diplomatic agreement, seriously violate international law, and even the domestic law of the US, a Chinese expert specializing on the Taiwan question told the Global Times on condition of anonymity.

If the US really secretly stations 30,000 soldiers in China's Taiwan island, the US as an external force is interfering with China's internal affairs which violates China's Anti-Secession Law. This would touch off a military conflict between the two countries, Song said.

China firmly opposes any US military personnel involvement in Taiwan affairs, or US soldiers setting foot on the island or launching any kind of military cooperation with the army of Taiwan island, Song said.

Some observers said if this is true, it's tantamount to a military invasion and occupation of China's Taiwan, and an act of declaring war on China. If the US really has troops stationed in Taiwan - even if the number is small - it would be a serious matter that has broken the bottom line.

Those US troops must withdraw immediately and unconditionally, and the US government and Taiwan authorities must publicly apologize for this, observers noted.

Well, that's troubling!
 

AlfaMan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Don't think it would be too hard to hide 30,000 US troops in the ROC. The ROC is one of the world's largest economies; lots of American companies do business there. Wouldn't be too hard to billet all those "corporate workers" in various places around the island. And some of the mountains in the ROC are rumored to be a lot like Swiss tunnels-chock full of all sorts of party favors.
Here's a link to some interesting reading concerning the ROC's "abandoned" nuclear weapons program. No doubt in my mind they have nukes. As a side thought; what are the state of relations between the ROC and Israel? The Israelis helped the South African govt. nuclear program. Things that make you go hmmm........

Taiwan’s Bomb | National Security Archive
 

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
Who is to say that at least ONE of the Carrier groups (either BIG carriers or smaller F-35 LHD type) is just over the horizon ready to unleash a full MEU-SOC on the Taiwan issue??
If we have a small Raider team (or a couple teams) as well as an A-Team or a full A- and B- Team there we would just be reinforcing them.

Sounds suspiciously like Trump-Think.
 
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