ECON TRUMP THE BIG SPENDER? (Original posted March 2018)

Doomer Doug

TB Fanatic
The total US government debt has now reached $21 TRILLION in the first year of POTUS Trump. Obama increased debt from around $ 10 TRILLION to $20 TRILLION, so Trump is in the same general range. I have seen articles claiming Trump is going into debt slightly slower, and less than Obama, which may be true. On the other hand, the spending beast is alive and well, munching away happily, and set to add roughly 1 TRILLION PER YEAR over the next decade or so.

The ancient Greek writer Polyibus stated that the fall of the Athenian Republic began when the politicians figured out they could take money from one class of people, and give it to another, in order to get elected, and to stay elected.

The Republicans have now lost even the fig leaf of being fiscal conservatives. We will eventually default on the debt. The bond markets will eventually force us to, or the foreigners who own a chunk of our debt will sell it off and trigger a bond collapse.

At any rate, the Uniparty likes debt, and it looks like Trump does too. :ld:

The link is here.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-03-16/us-national-debt-hits-21-trillion


US National Debt Hits $21 Trillion
Profile picture for user Tyler Durden
by Tyler Durden
Fri, 03/16/2018 - 17:47


For 8 years, we took every opportunity to point out that under Barack Obama's administration, US debt was rising at a alarmingly rapid rate, having nearly doubled, surging by $9.3 trillion during Obama's 8 years. It now appears that the trajectory of US debt under the Trump administration will be no different, and in fact based on Trump's ambitious fiscal spending visions, may rise even faster than it did under Obama.

We note this because as of close of Friday, the US Treasury reported that total US debt has risen above $21 trillion for the first time; or $21,031,067,004,766.25 to be precise.

Putting this in context, total US debt has now risen by over $1 trillion in Trump's first year... and the real spending hasn't even begun yet.

What is amusing is that Trump - who has a tweet for every occasion - and who no longer even pretends to care about the unsustainability of US spending was extremely proud as recently as a year ago by how little debt has increased during his term.

We doubt today's milestone will be celebrated on Trump's twitter account.

And while some can argue - especially adherents of the socialist Magic Money Tree, or MMT, theory - that there is no reason why the exponential debt increase can't continue indefinitely...

. one can counter with the following chart from Goldman, which shows that if one assumes a blended interest rate of roughly 3.5% as the Fed does, and keeps America's debt/GDP ratio constant, in a few years the US will be in what Goldman dubbed "uncharted territory" and warned that "the continued growth of public debt raises eventual sustainability questions if left unchecked."

The bad news, however, is that debt/GDP will not be constant, as the CBO recently forecast in what was actually an overly optimistic prediction.
 

Seabear

Inactive
He is planning to repatriate money to the US and confiscate the wealth of the Robber Barons created under the last 3 administrations....
 

Dozdoats

On TB every waking moment
At any rate, the Uniparty likes debt, and it looks like Trump does too.

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/trump-king-of-debt-224642

Trump: 'I'm the king of debt'

By LOUIS NELSON 06/22/2016 08:09 AM EDT

Donald Trump, the presumptive Republican nominee for president and self-described “king of debt,” offered a glimpse into his deal-making playbook Wednesday morning as he defended himself from Hillary Clinton's attacks.

“I’m the king of debt. I’m great with debt. Nobody knows debt better than me,” Trump told Norah O’Donnell in an interview that aired on “CBS This Morning.” “I’ve made a fortune by using debt, and if things don’t work out I renegotiate the debt. I mean, that’s a smart thing, not a stupid thing.”

“How do you renegotiate the debt?” O’Donnell followed up.

“You go back and you say, hey guess what, the economy crashed,” Trump replied. “I’m going to give you back half.”

///snip///
 

Doomer Doug

TB Fanatic
No Seabear, Trump just cut taxes, increased spending and let the chips fall where they may. The money you are talking about, the overseas "hoard" of money corporations stashed overseas to avoid the 35 percent tax rate, will come back and be taxed at 15 percent I think. Trump's assumption that he can raise total tax revenues by cutting the rate, on the assumption he will tax more money, at a lower rate, and thus end up with more tax revenue is wrong. We had a name for that back under Reagan: supply side economics, or trickle down, which turned out to be pissed upon instead.

I'm not sure why people don't understand that if you decrease revenue, and you increase spending, and you increase spending by increasing debt, the debt service will eventually eat you alive. It is just a fact that the Republicans don't give a damn about the deficit, and are equally addicted to reckless spending on borrowed money. Peons like us, Seabear, actually have to have a budget, and keep a budget, or we go belly up, but not our elite, and not the Federales, they just issue more fiat funny money, and spend money they don't have. It is just too bad that Trump bought into the free lunch, borrowed money, excessive debt mantra so fast.

If Trump's trends hold, we will add roughly one trillion per year to the debt, and the total will be an additional 3 Trillion dollars by election time in 2020. The federal debt will be around 23/24 TRILLION BY THEN.

Trump has bought us some time to prepare. Use it wisely, but never regard Trump as being America's savior. America is too far gone, to indebted, squalid, morally corrupt and ignorant to be saved as a Republic. And nowhere is that moral squalor more prominently portrayed than in the idea you can spend money you don't have, on things you don't need, and then dump the debt on your grandchildren.
 

Doomer Doug

TB Fanatic
WTF Dozdoats

If Trump tells the Chinese he is going to cut their debt payments in half, they will vaporize the White House with a nuke.:shkr:
 

BV141

Has No Life - Lives on TB
The Chinese need $1 Trillion dollars to recapitilize their banks.
Thus President for life Xi Xiping...

World debt is $233 Trillion...

The world debt scenario needs to be 'addressed.'
The world will peg currencies against gold and hyper inflate away the problem.

Again, every nation has a massive debt problem and Central banks just print....
 

jed turtle

a brother in the Lord
I have always wondered if those at the top who have been spending like drunken sailers, (and the Obama Period was spending wastefully like crackheads), because they have known for some time that some event -unknown to the masses- is approaching that will negate the problem of paying off the debt. Something like Nibiru, or a magnetic reversal that will cause a mass extinction.
 

Dozdoats

On TB every waking moment
Robert David Steele said in a current interview Trump may be planning a debt jubilee for Americans - that would set the country on its ear if it's true. :D A LOT more stuff, too-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFyPPK4v7pY
Trump Jumps in Bed with CIA, Pedophilia Crackdown - Robert David Steele
R/T 41:26

Former Marine turned CIA case officer turned open source intelligence proponent - I used to work with a group of people including Steele doing open source intel stuff. Listen for entertainment if nothing else.
 

tanstaafl

Has No Life - Lives on TB
The national debt hit $20 trillion on September 8, 2017. The scary thought to me is if it has in fact crossed the $21 trillion mark that's $1 trillion in just over six months! Last I heard the Federal Reserve wasn't going to monetize any more debt and both China and Japan had announced they were cutting way back on Treasuries. So exactly who bought that additional $1 trillion? Or did the Federal Reserve monetize it after all?

I think in early February the Treasury Department released its projections saying the annual deficit for FY2018 will be nearly $1 trillion (whoops, they've already missed that number), about $1.1 trillion in FY2019, and about $1.3 trillion in FY2020. By the time the next Presidential election rolls around the national debt should be at or more than $25 trillion. Keep in mind those numbers don't include things like a major war, attempting to jump start another recession, very expensive natural disasters, etc.
 

naturallysweet

Has No Life - Lives on TB
As long as Congress is not willing to tackle Baseline spending in the federal budget. Then our debt will continue to rise.
 

Dobbin

Faithful Steed
As long as Congress is not willing to tackle Baseline spending in the federal budget. Then our debt will continue to rise.

Um. If they balanced the Federal Budget tomorrow and resolved henceforth to incur NO MORE DEBT - the economy would be in free-fall by Monday.

The unintended consequence of ever increasing debt is that everyone learns to COUNT ON IT BEING THERE. And the failure of expected return by those who invested in hope of ever increasing government projects will panic the markets - making funding for EVERYTHING more iffy.

Trump realizes this - he also realizes that despite the increasing debt of the administrations that preceded his (both R and D) the American Economy has been moribund for certainly the last eight years, if not 20 years. In order to get the economy moving its necessary to "pull a little harder." Greenspan (spits) called this "priming the pump." Once things get going, it may result in increased tax revenue. It did during the Kennedy Administration.

Not an apologist for Trump - it may in fact be too far gone. But Hillary would have you report to the "Work Camps" for your new social engagement.

Funny how a Kennedy (Democratic) priming of the pump is considered AOK - and the right thing at the right time - but a Reagan (Republican) identical move is not?

You can be sure that - according to Media - Trump will "fail miserably" - no matter the outcome.

He might even "Make America Great Again" - and only your groomsman (hairdresser) will know for sure.

Dobbin
 

tanstaafl

Has No Life - Lives on TB
There is the discretionary budget (over which Congress and the President have some control over) and then there is the mandatory budget (which is spending mandated by law and which no politician will touch) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_budget_process#Discretionary_and_mandatory_spending. I read once that they could zero out every single dollar in the discretionary budget and the US would still run an annual budget deficit. So folks can bitch all they want to about spending on immigration and windmill subsidies, but the reality is that the argument that every dollar reduced from federal spending counts is a feel-good fantasy. At this point I think the circus has to continue until the last bitter act, which is where they set the circus tent on fire with everyone still inside as some insane strategy of MAFD (Mutual Assured Financial Destruction) where it somehow makes sense to the people involved to destroy the world in order to save it from a worse fate.
 

Dozdoats

On TB every waking moment
Got any "money"?

Take out your wallet. Take out a bill.

Look up top on the dead president side and read what it says.

FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE, right? Now the crucial question. What is a NOTE?

What is a 'Note'
A note is a legal document that serves as an IOU from a borrower to a creditor. Notes typically obligate the issuer to repay its creditor the principal loan and any interest payments on a predetermined date.

Read more: Note https://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/note.asp#ixzz5A2Rp6kgh
Follow us: Investopedia on Facebook


Given the NOTE you hold in your hand, who is the creditor? Who is the issuer?


Now let me quote Donald Trump's statement from above.

“How do you renegotiate the debt?” O’Donnell followed up.

“You go back and you say, hey guess what, the economy crashed,” Trump replied. “I’m going to give you back half.”


Has that begun to sink in yet?

And frankly, if my analysis is any good, you'll be lucky to get back half of what you have in the bank.

As always, YMMV.
 

Doomer Doug

TB Fanatic
FULL FAITH AND CREDIT?

Dozdoats, is yuz saying the "full faith and credit" of the US Government is only toilet paper? Would the Federal Reserve, that private banking cartel, looting and pillaging the American public gleefully since 1913 lie to us?:dstrs:
 

Doomer Doug

TB Fanatic
COLLATERAL ON THE DEBT

Of course, it may be, at least since Clinton, that China got either written, or verbal, assurances that they would get to cherry pick US assets, ports, railroads, farmland, airports etc in the event the US defaulted. And the Chinese are making the military preparations to come and claim "their" assets when that happens.

IF TREASON PROSPERS, THEN NONE DARE CALL IT TREASON. WHILE WE WERE FOCUSED ON BILL CLINTON'S SEXUAL FOLLY, THE F#%%%% ASS WAS SELLING US OUT TO THE CHINESE.
 
Got any "money"?

Take out your wallet. Take out a bill.

Look up top on the dead president side and read what it says.

FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE, right? Now the crucial question. What is a NOTE?

What is a 'Note'
A note is a legal document that serves as an IOU from a borrower to a creditor. Notes typically obligate the issuer to repay its creditor the principal loan and any interest payments on a predetermined date.

Read more: Note https://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/note.asp#ixzz5A2Rp6kgh
Follow us: Investopedia on Facebook


Given the NOTE you hold in your hand, who is the creditor? Who is the issuer?


Now let me quote Donald Trump's statement from above.

“How do you renegotiate the debt?” O’Donnell followed up.

“You go back and you say, hey guess what, the economy crashed,” Trump replied. “I’m going to give you back half.”


Has that begun to sink in yet?

And frankly, if my analysis is any good, you'll be lucky to get back half of what you have in the bank.

As always, YMMV.

Adding the old saying - if you owe the bank $10K and cannot repay it, YOU have a problem. If you owe the bank $1M, and cannot repay it, the BANK has a problem.

Magnify for effect in all international economic jurisdictions. Donald Trump understands this quite clearly. Art of the deal, indeed. Either the bank/country stays liquid enough that they will continue to survive/eat by taking a lesser amount repayment than originally agreed upon, or things will get very ugly and messy, and long-term intractable - both at home, and abroad.

Not too hard to understand how "the bank has a problem when you owe them $1M, and cannot repay."


intothegoodnight
 
Of course, it may be, at least since Clinton, that China got either written, or verbal, assurances that they would get to cherry pick US assets, ports, railroads, farmland, airports etc in the event the US defaulted. And the Chinese are making the military preparations to come and claim "their" assets when that happens.

IF TREASON PROSPERS, THEN NONE DARE CALL IT TREASON. WHILE WE WERE FOCUSED ON BILL CLINTON'S SEXUAL FOLLY, THE F#%%%% ASS WAS SELLING US OUT TO THE CHINESE.

Remains to be determined.

Would be awfully difficult for the Chinese government to enforce such terms on behalf of what amounts to worthless credit issued by wealthy Chinese business folks, that the U.S. government has conveniently reneged upon.


intothegoodnight
 

NoMoreLibs

Kill Commie's, Every Single One Of Them!
Got any "money"?

Take out your wallet. Take out a bill.

Look up top on the dead president side and read what it says.

FEDERAL RESERVE NOTE, right? Now the crucial question. What is a NOTE?

What is a 'Note'
A note is a legal document that serves as an IOU from a borrower to a creditor. Notes typically obligate the issuer to repay its creditor the principal loan and any interest payments on a predetermined date.

Read more: Note https://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/note.asp#ixzz5A2Rp6kgh
Follow us: Investopedia on Facebook


Given the NOTE you hold in your hand, who is the creditor? Who is the issuer?


Now let me quote Donald Trump's statement from above.

“How do you renegotiate the debt?” O’Donnell followed up.

“You go back and you say, hey guess what, the economy crashed,” Trump replied. “I’m going to give you back half.”


Has that begun to sink in yet?

And frankly, if my analysis is any good, you'll be lucky to get back half of what you have in the bank.

As always, YMMV.


Very good humor, very good sir! In the bank...oh you're killing me. :D
 

Doomer Doug

TB Fanatic
The Chinese would get both Guam and Taiwan for starters. Next, they would levy a 10 percent tax on all economic activity in CONUS. And you can bet they can enforce that, or they would send some of those 300 plus submarines they have and do what Japan and Germany should have done in January of 1942; namely, seal off our ports, and shut down the Panama Canal. Li just declared himself DICTATOR FOR LIFE. Don't underestimate the Chinese.
 

Dozdoats

On TB every waking moment
shut down the Panama Canal

They pretty much own Panama now anyway. And they are either widening the existing canal in Panama, or building a new 90 foot wide one in Nicaragua, depending on which story you hear/believe. They're planning post-Panamax ships, just in case.
 

Doomer Doug

TB Fanatic
Don't forget the reports of all the cargo containers with missiles and launchers in them parked in the freight yards. Of course, the actual company that "runs" the canal is a front company for the PLA, the People's Liberation Army. Yep, one of these days we may see a few dozen inbound Chinese missiles headed towards Dallas and DC from the South.
 

TammyinWI

Talk is cheap
No Seabear, Trump just cut taxes, increased spending and let the chips fall where they may. The money you are talking about, the overseas "hoard" of money corporations stashed overseas to avoid the 35 percent tax rate, will come back and be taxed at 15 percent I think. Trump's assumption that he can raise total tax revenues by cutting the rate, on the assumption he will tax more money, at a lower rate, and thus end up with more tax revenue is wrong. We had a name for that back under Reagan: supply side economics, or trickle down, which turned out to be pissed upon instead.

I'm not sure why people don't understand that if you decrease revenue, and you increase spending, and you increase spending by increasing debt, the debt service will eventually eat you alive. It is just a fact that the Republicans don't give a damn about the deficit, and are equally addicted to reckless spending on borrowed money. Peons like us, Seabear, actually have to have a budget, and keep a budget, or we go belly up, but not our elite, and not the Federales, they just issue more fiat funny money, and spend money they don't have. It is just too bad that Trump bought into the free lunch, borrowed money, excessive debt mantra so fast.

If Trump's trends hold, we will add roughly one trillion per year to the debt, and the total will be an additional 3 Trillion dollars by election time in 2020. The federal debt will be around 23/24 TRILLION BY THEN.

Trump has bought us some time to prepare. Use it wisely, but never regard Trump as being America's savior. America is too far gone, to indebted, squalid, morally corrupt and ignorant to be saved as a Republic. And nowhere is that moral squalor more prominently portrayed than in the idea you can spend money you don't have, on things you don't need, and then dump the debt on your grandchildren.

True, and I just see that as a connection, not just a coincidence: Trump used the same slogan was same as Reagan- Make America Great Again.

The baton keeps getting passed back and forth between the uniparty members who continue with the same agenda, one being to break the bank.
 

Satanta

Stone Cold Crazy
_______________
Well, not being a financial Genius by any means here is my consideration.

Going simple.

You owe $100k in debt with 10% interest. That's $10k every month you have to pay on that $100k.

You're income every month is $11k, allowing you to float the interest payments so the holder of your debt stays off your ass.

Then suddenly you only bring in $9k a month.

Now you still have to pay the $10k interest but have zero left over.

The holder of your debt says "We'll tack that extra $1k on your debt and you can pay us the $9k each month.

After 12 months you now owe the original $100k, plus the extra $1k added on to it for each month plus the monthly payment.

It's going to accrue on itself.

So sudenly you start making $11k a month after a year-now you can go back to paying the $10k bill but you now have what? $112k to pay off?

Same thing Obama left-he jacked up the debt, with interest and those bills will continue climbing until , somehow, the debt is paid or whittled down.

Not arguing for Trump just arguing that the current issue is not going to end in the forseable future without a lot of people going into slumhouses amd living meagerly because that is just the way it is-get rid of a lot of the welfare that is being wrongly used, get rid of the illegals and get rid of a lot of b.s. p[rogra,s amd committees and it will help but, until the income versus outgoing issue is solved the debt is going to climb. It has to.
 

naturallysweet

Has No Life - Lives on TB
The Chinese would get both Guam and Taiwan for starters. Next, they would levy a 10 percent tax on all economic activity in CONUS. And you can bet they can enforce that, or they would send some of those 300 plus submarines they have and do what Japan and Germany should have done in January of 1942; namely, seal off our ports, and shut down the Panama Canal. Li just declared himself DICTATOR FOR LIFE. Don't underestimate the Chinese.

I think you need to research how little of our debt China actually owns before you hyperventilate.
 
Don't forget the reports of all the cargo containers with missiles and launchers in them parked in the freight yards. Of course, the actual company that "runs" the canal is a front company for the PLA, the People's Liberation Army. Yep, one of these days we may see a few dozen inbound Chinese missiles headed towards Dallas and DC from the South.

One would think that the cargo container-mounted missile problem would work BOTH ways . . .


intothegoodnight
 

Old Gray Mare

TB Fanatic
I voted for Trump not because I believed he could "Make America Great Again" but because if things went sideways worse than back in 2008 I wanted him at the helm to tackle the country's bankruptcy and debt reorganization. What he has accomplished so far is gravy on top.
 

Doomer Doug

TB Fanatic
Damn, Trump is headed for a 1.2 TRILLION DOLLAR increase in the US Federal debt for fiscal 2018. Remember, the US Federal government uses a fiscal year budget that starts on October 1st, and ends on September 30th.

The current fiscal year began on October 1st of 2017, and will end on September 30th of 2018. The $600 BILLION FIGURE is for October, November, December, January, February and March. This means Trump is increasing the Federal Debt at a current rate of $100 BILLION PER MONTH AND IS ON TARGET FOR A TOTAL DEBT INCREASE OF 1. 2 TRILLION BY SEPTEMBER 30TH.

So, this means total federal debt will be in the range of 21 to 22 TRILLION by the end of this September. I believe total federal debt was 21 Trillion on September 30th, so right now the total debt is 21 Trillion and 600 Billion dollars.

http://thehill.com/policy/finance/382033-deficit-nears-600-billion-in-first-half-of-2018



Deficit nears $600 billion in first half of 2018
© Greg Nash
The federal budget deficit hit $598 billion in the first half of the 2018 fiscal year, according to the Congressional Budget Office, quickly outpacing the deficits of recent years.

At the same point in 2017, the deficit was $78 billion lower. That year, the entire deficit amounted to $666 billion, just 11% higher than the amount the U.S. government had to borrow in the first half of 2018.

The fast-increasing deficit expanded as government outlays grew 2.5 times faster than revenues. On the revenue side, which was up 2 percent over last year, the GOP tax reforms ate into individual tax revenue, and slashed corporate tax revenue by $22 billion, or 22 percent.

On the spending side, Social Security outlays increased $19 billion, or 4 percent, while interest payments on debt increased $18 billion, or 12 percent. Meanwhile, disaster relief efforts drove Homeland Security spending up $14 billion, a 56 percent increase. Defense spending also rose $12 billion — a 4 percent increase.

Budget-watchers have warned that the combination of the massive, unfunded tax cut the GOP passed last year and a spending deal that busted through preset budget caps would lead the U.S. deficit past $1 trillion by 2019.

Tags budget deficit Government spending
 

Doomer Doug

TB Fanatic
Here is a link showing total US Federal Debt.

https://www.usgovernmentdebt.us/

As of today, the total US Federal debt total is Today’s Federal Debt is $21,120,516,214,632.52.

This includes the $600 BILLION added in the first six months of fiscal 2018. Further, it indicates a potential for a total Federal Debt of 21 TRILLION AND 700 BILLION BY SEPTEMBER 30TH. This means Trump will have added 1 TRILLION AND 700 BILLION IN NEW DEBT SINCE JANUARY OF 2017. Of course, some of that debt was in FISCAL 2017, WHICH STARTED ON OCTOBER 1ST OF 2016. However, Trump started at the 20 TRILLION DOLLAR LEVEL WHICH INCLUDED THE 10 TRILLION THAT OBAMA ADDED IN HIS 8 YEARS.
 

SageRock

Veteran Member
The "debt jubilee," if any, would likely involve the federal government reneging on its debt to private citizens (e.g., Social Security, Medicare, and federal pensions). The states and cities might renege on their pension/medical debts as well -- actually, some of them are already doing so.

Something to consider...

The government is the worst creditor to have, and the worst debtor to have. In other words, you don't want to be owing money to the government, since they can take extraordinary measures to collect, unlike most other creditors. You also don't really want to depend on the government paying its debts to you, for precisely the same reason -- they can always change the laws to erase their debt to you. They've already jiggered the Social Security and Medicare systems in innumerable ways to do so in a sly manner, but I'm expecting more of a full frontal assault over the next few years.
 

Troke

On TB every waking moment
The Chinese would get both Guam and Taiwan for starters. Next, they would levy a 10 percent tax on all economic activity in CONUS. And you can bet they can enforce that, or they would send some of those 300 plus submarines they have and do what Japan and Germany should have done in January of 1942; namely, seal off our ports, and shut down the Panama Canal. Li just declared himself DICTATOR FOR LIFE. Don't underestimate the Chinese.

You don't get it. The Chinese system has Big Problems, economic and demographic. What ever they do, they gotta do pretty quick or not at all. Russia is even worse off.

I am constantly amazed at the people on this forum who believe in the efficiency of government. And as the Commies have the most government, they persist in admiring them the most.

And one more thing. Our economy crashes they all crash. We have been carrying the world on our back for a generation. That is stopping.
 

Doomer Doug

TB Fanatic
I WON'T BE AROUND TO DEAL WITH CHINA

Ah, the trokester is back! he he he

China will, like Japan before it, use military means to achieve political and economic results. Like Japan, China will fail. Unlike Japan, China will kick our ass before she collapses into chaos. By then, I will be dead and so won't worry about it.:lkick:
 

TammyinWI

Talk is cheap
How do you know for certain?

You could be around a long time yet and/or the other shoe could drop quickly.

No one holds all of the cards, and things do seem to be accelerating.
 

kochevnik

Senior Member
So out of 21 T ofUS debt China and Japan own about 10 percent. Its an irrelevant number especially since if they
decide to dump it they crush the price and hurt themselves. Most US debt is purchased by Americans and various institutions,
its debt we owe ourselves.

And another thing I learned recently - there is the deficit - which is the debt that is created by the FedGov budget spending and there
is the Total DEBT which adds in things like student loans and other off budget items.

This is why the budget this year will be a 1.2 T shortfall, but the DEBT will rise 2T which is just an extension of the hockey stick
curve that has been in place since the 70s.

Not going to change that - and I don't know where or even IF it ends anymore.
 

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Ah, the trokester is back! he he he

China will, like Japan before it, use military means to achieve political and economic results. Like Japan, China will fail. Unlike Japan, China will kick our ass before she collapses into chaos. By then, I will be dead and so won't worry about it.:lkick:

Don't know a lot about national debt etc. much less international, but IMHO this type of debt is not sustainable, even with printing fiat currency. At some point, it would seem, that the backing of the US dollar which is only trust, will collapse.

If that is anywhere near right, (ballpark) couldn't the Chinese, help themselves, and hurt us, by an expanding petroyaun backed by gold. Probably take a hit, on the loss of US bonds, but wouldn't we take a bigger hit?
 
Don't know a lot about national debt etc. much less international, but IMHO this type of debt is not sustainable, even with printing fiat currency. At some point, it would seem, that the backing of the US dollar which is only trust, will collapse.

If that is anywhere near right, (ballpark) couldn't the Chinese, help themselves, and hurt us, by an expanding petroyaun backed by gold. Probably take a hit, on the loss of US bonds, but wouldn't we take a bigger hit?

Recall that China HAS been liquidating/trimming some of their U.S. bond holdings, buying U.S. businesses and real estate in the U.S. with the proceeds.

I expect this to continue.


intothegoodnight
 
Top