Trump not debating is very sharp move, IMO...

shane

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Debating risk/reward ratio made smart sense for him not to.

Trump was already going to win Iowa and NH, why risk
losing anything for smaller hope that he might win a few
more points or just stay even, especially if he felt Fox was
really out to knock him down this go around. The potential
gain was not worth the risk, he's got Iowa and NH locked,
as long as he did not go get knocked down in this debate.

Everybody on that stage will go after Trump, sure, but less
than they might if he'd of been there. Also, none of them
are going to beat and replace Trump as #1, they know that,
and so they are all going to focus much more on becoming #2.

So, who's going to be the much bigger target tonight, Cruz,
he's the guy they got to knock down to steal his 2nd place.
They are all going to do Trumps bidding, knocking Cruz down
for him, especially with no Trump to spend as much time on.

Additionally, with Rand Paul now back up on stage cause Trump
isn't, if Paul can get any traction at all, whose supporters does
he pull most of them from? Cruz! Cruz loses more points again!

Sure, Trump might still lose a couple points among undecideds
for not showing up, but he's also not risking losing even more
by exiting ground zero where he was certainly the prime target.

Also, Trumps base loves him even more for giving media and
the corrupt process the finger.

It'll be interesting to see not only what Trumps numbers look
like after tonight, but also what damage it does to Cruz. Trump
might not show much gain, but he could well be even further ahead
of Cruz cause Cruz becomes the lightning rod target of all the rest
trying to unseat him from his #2 position so they can occupy it.

We'll see soon...

- Shane
 

Bardou

Veteran Member
Cruz made a stupid remark which I read as a Tweet:

"Everyone here is fat and ugly, now that we got Trump out of the way....." What a prick.

FOX Business

@FoxBusiness

"Everyone on this stage is stupid, fat and ugly... Now that we've gotten the Donald Trump portion out of the way..."
6:06 PM - 28 Jan 2016
 

Coulter

Veteran Member
Cruz made a stupid remark which I read as a Tweet:

"Everyone here is fat and ugly, now that we got Trump out of the way....." What a prick.

Did Cruz happen to mention that HE does not support stopping the muslim invasion?
 

Ragnar

Senior Member
Well said Shane, I don't think it will hurt him - all the other news stations are jumping to cover to compete with fox's ratings. Which will dip of course and tump will use this to his advantage.
 

Bardou

Veteran Member
Did Cruz happen to mention that HE does not support stopping the muslim invasion?

Dunno. Saw the headline over at Drudge and I clicked on it which took me to Fox business. There's all kinds of tweets going on over there.
 

Hacker

Computer Hacking Pirate
All of the mainstream media outlets, but especially TV, have become political machines unto themselves. People understand this.

So, Trump is not running against FAUX News. People get this too.

I don't like Trump. I think he's as much a tyrant as is Bam Bam or Hillary (would be). But I do enjoy seeing him tie the mainstream, and the GOP establishment, into knots. :lol:
 

Lavender

Veteran Member
Just a reminder.....

CZ1mhi_WEAEJj9U.jpg
 

nomifyle

TB Fanatic
Thank you Shane, very well said. There are some people on this forum that want to take everything that Trump does and twist it into something negative. And the one in particular talks out of both sides of his mouth and has done so for years. When people start to catch onto him he goes away for a few years but then rears his ugly negative head again.

Judy
 

shane

Has No Life - Lives on TB
My thread posting is much more objective analysis than any Trump endorsement.

While I absolutely love how horrified he's made the Establishment RINO's, Demoncrats & media,
I've been suspect of how deeply his Conservative principles really run. Some would suggest he's
really a liberal in sheeps clothing, but that's unlikely with all liberals so clearly unified against him.
I don't have to vote yet so I'll keep watching and learning in the meantime, keeping my powder dry.
I do know, if he was eventual Rep candidate, I'd eagerly vote for him over Hitlery in a heartbeat.

- Shane
 
Last edited:

Mixin

Veteran Member
After watching his rally tonight, I don't see how anyone can say he made a mistake. The first 3 people C-Span talked with after the rally are crossover dims voting for Trump.

On 3 streams, I counted over 77,000 viewers.

Here's another thing I'm wondering about; what makes her so sure things would be different after the debate?

MK Tweet.jpg
 

shane

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Here's another thing I'm wondering about; what makes her so sure things would be different after the debate?
View attachment 126683

I think that tweet was before Trump announced he'd not be in the debate.
It well may have been one of the contributing factors to his decision, that
they were going to be gunning for him unfairly at debate, so he ducked it.
Did Megyn Kelley, so full of herself, arrogantly tip her hand prematurely?

- Shane
 

AlfaMan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
It will be different, that's for sure. Fox probably wishes they never poo pooed Trump, because nobody watched their precious debate. They will be crying in their beer over the fiasco they brought on themselves...........
But Trump tonight endeared himself to every vet and serviceman forever in this country. He held an event that wasn't all about him-but all for and about the vets in our country. That immediately raises his credibility in mine and millions of others' eyes.
Cruz talked about "NY values"-well, tonight I heard one NYC based donor after another being mentioned. And not small donations-a million here, a million there. Real money got raised for vets tonight. If that's NY values showing, then I am all for NY values in this context.

After watching his rally tonight, I don't see how anyone can say he made a mistake. The first 3 people C-Span talked with after the rally are crossover dims voting for Trump.

On 3 streams, I counted over 77,000 viewers.

Here's another thing I'm wondering about; what makes her so sure things would be different after the debate?

View attachment 126683
 

Mixin

Veteran Member
C-Span is still taking calls. I think everyone has been pro-Trump, excited from his rally, going to vote and all dims who called are crossing over.

C-Span got some good press for covering the event, too.
 

Dozdoats

On TB every waking moment
Seems to me he's made more heads explode dissing Faux than with anything else he's done so far. Political jiu jitsu carried to the next level! I love it!
 

Buick Electra

TB2K Girls with Guns
Sgt 1st Class John Wayne Walding's talk was phenomenal!! Near tears because my deceased Nam vet husband Jim would have loved him! Especially while he's talking about depression and suicide. He said regarding the suicides - 22 deaths a day - the best thing to tell yourself is that you owe it to the fallen to get well. I was IN TEARS when The vets on stage thanked the people in the audience for being there!

Trump said he had a list outside of the organizations that wil be getting this money. Said they just cracked over $6M !!! On his website the tally is up to $430,000.
 

shane

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Final speaker for final comments was Cruz, noticeably not ending upbeat, smile less.

I tvo'ed Trump on CSPAN, going to watch now.

- Shane
 

Hansa44

Justine Case
After watching his rally tonight, I don't see how anyone can say he made a mistake. The first 3 people C-Span talked with after the rally are crossover dims voting for Trump.

On 3 streams, I counted over 77,000 viewers.

Here's another thing I'm wondering about; what makes her so sure things would be different after the debate?

View attachment 126683

Trump said he doesn't care if he loses the debate tonight.

Said there are 5 or 6 debates to go.
 

Millwright

Knuckle Dragger
_______________
I'll bet it was interesting in the fox inner war-room tonight.

Expect them to pull some really crazy $#it soon.
 

Disciple

Veteran Member
I agree he was wise to skip. Fox laid a trap showing videos of flip flops by Cruz and Rubio. No doubt they would have had an even worse one picked out for him.
 

Hansa44

Justine Case
Just heard some reporters on CNN talking about the debate tonight. They said it mostly stunk without Trump there. There was no energy or enthusiasm during the debate. I am figuring Fox lost millions because Trump wasn't there.

GOOD FOR TRUMP!! PEOPLE ARE FIGURING OUT HOW IMPORTANT HE IS TO THIS COUNTRY AND THE PEOPLE

Maybe a few are actually waking up to the control the MSM has on their lives.
 

Scrapman

Veteran Member
Debating risk/reward ratio made smart sense for him not to.

Trump was already going to win Iowa and NH, why risk
losing anything for smaller hope that he might win a few
more points or just stay even, especially if he felt Fox was
really out to knock him down this go around. The potential
gain was not worth the risk, he's got Iowa and NH locked,
as long as he did not go get knocked down in this debate.

Everybody on that stage will go after Trump, sure, but less
than they might if he'd of been there. Also, none of them
are going to beat and replace Trump as #1, they know that,
and so they are all going to focus much more on becoming #2.

So, who's going to be the much bigger target tonight, Cruz,
he's the guy they got to knock down to steal his 2nd place.
They are all going to do Trumps bidding, knocking Cruz down
for him, especially with no Trump to spend as much time on.

Additionally, with Rand Paul now back up on stage cause Trump
isn't, if Paul can get any traction at all, whose supporters does
he pull most of them from? Cruz! Cruz loses more points again!

Sure, Trump might still lose a couple points among undecideds
for not showing up, but he's also not risking losing even more
by exiting ground zero where he was certainly the prime target.

Also, Trumps base loves him even more for giving media and
the corrupt process the finger.

It'll be interesting to see not only what Trumps numbers look
like after tonight, but also what damage it does to Cruz. Trump
might not show much gain, but he could well be even further ahead
of Cruz cause Cruz becomes the lightning rod target of all the rest
trying to unseat him from his #2 position so they can occupy it.

We'll see soon...

- Shane

I concur. Spot on Shane.
 

Sacajawea

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Well, if Trump can gather support across party lines... and find a message that resonates with Americans (regardless of party)... then, he is doing some good. Whether he's the nominee, goes 3rd party, whatever... what he's doing is pulling people back together again. And I'm thrilled he's refusing to kow-tow to the "establishment" rules and media BS. Hit 'em where it hurts, Donald.
 

Hfcomms

EN66iq
Not to mention that Fox was trying to set Trump up with some of the Cair people there. He was too smart to take the bait. Main stream media is losing it's power and influence. Trump doesn't need them. He can do his own broadcasting with Twitter, Instantgram et al.
 

Plain Jane

Just Plain Jane
Shapiro has been pretty much in the tank for Cruz, so I thought his take on this was interesting. The response here and at other sites is that Cruz did not help himself, but didn't shoot himself in the foot either.

On the other hand, anecdotally, I see that the Students For Rand are reporting there were more inquiries for their campaign from other students than during any other debate. Now I know those young people have a way of over stating their successes, but it could be true. Shapiro gives Rand a pretty good review while taking an anti-Semitic swipe at him.

http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presi...the-final-countdown-republican-debate-grades/

The Final Countdown: Republican Debate Grades
2
0

Alex Wong/Getty
by BEN SHAPIRO28 Jan 201627

The Republican candidates sans Donald Trump held their final debate Thursday night before the Iowa caucuses. The elephant in the room was Trump’s absence: would it hurt him? Would it help him?
The answer: both.

Trump made a calculated gamble in ditching the debate. It wasn’t spur of the moment, and it wasn’t an emotional response to Fox News’s supposedly insufferable cruelty. Trump feels that he’s up in Iowa – all the polls say he is – and so he took his poll lead and went home.

That benefitted him because he avoided what was easily the most brutal round of questioning in a Republican debate this entire cycle – he never had to face the video montage of his inconsistent positions, inflammatory statements, and praise of major Democrats. But it could hurt him if Iowans feel insulted that he decided he was too big for the stage.
Only time will tell.

Meanwhile, the debate Trump prayed for in his absence played out in almost textbook fashion. Here, without further ado, are the debate grades.

Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX): C. Cruz came into the debate as the poll leader on the stage, and the pundit favorite to win Iowa based on turnout projections. That meant he had to appear presidential without appearing aggressive, strong but not petulant.

Early on, he failed at that task. He began with a rather roundabout, poorly-delivered joke about Trump’s absence. It wasn’t his only joke along those lines of the evening – he would later joke about how all the questions were targeting him, and perhaps he ought to leave. Because the joke was delivered with all the timing of a salmon, nobody got the joke – and then Senator Sen. Marco Rubio (R-FL) said he’d never leave a debate and got a round of applause. Here’s the rule for having a sense of humor on stage: self-deprecating and passive-aggressive is fine so long as you’re not the frontrunner. Once you’re on top, you can only get laughs by going Big Shot, as Trump has shown.

Cruz seemed to sleepwalk through the early part of the debate – nervous, prepared Cruz was back. But he came alive in an exchange about immigration with Rubio, who simply got clocked over his amnesty support (more on that shortly). Megyn Kelly suggested that Cruz was pro-amnesty too, but that didn’t hold a lot of water – it was a secondary attack after Rubio and Jeb! Bush went after each other.

Cruz had bright moments too. He had a good moment in explaining his Obamacare plan. Cruz’s best moment came on ethanol, when he directly called out the governor of Iowa by refusing to endorse the boondoggle. It was a truly brave moment in a state he probably needs to win. He then concluded with an appeal to Iowans directly – smart, considering he’s spent more time there than any other candidate.
He didn’t hurt himself tonight. But he didn’t help himself either.

Marco Rubio: C. Cruz’s weak night meant that Rubio had a real shot. He didn’t capitalize. He appeared nervous and sweaty much of the debate. He spoke quickly and defensively.

Megyn Kelly absolutely hammered Rubio on his amnesty flip-flop – and incredibly, Rubio still has no good answer for that charge. His strength on the night was his determination to redirect all questions to Hillary Clinton’s incapacity to lead – but Rubio always appears scripted and is not fluid moving from point to point. He repeated Hillary’s endorsement of Obama for the Supreme Court several times, as though that was the chief charge against her. His positive energy seemed to dissipate as the evening went on, and as he fended off attacks from Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY) and Chris Christie, among others. As I predicted, Rubio attacked Cruz as willing to do or say anything to gain votes – a foolish play with Trump still in the poll lead. Overall, it wasn’t a good night for Rubio, but he likely didn’t lose whatever standing he has with his followers.

Chris Christie: B. For those of us who have bulled our way through the debates, Christie’s performances grate more each time.

He fibs – Megyn Kelly blew him out of the water after one particularly egregious fib on the San Bernardino shooters and political correctness – and he pulls out all the emotional stops, from 9/11 to the tried-and-true, “I don’t unnerstan’ all these fancy Senators with their fancy talk, I’m jus’ a pore ol’ Governor who gets stuff done.” But for those watching for the first time, this was vintage Christie. He got off several good lines at Hillary’s expense. He got off a great line on defunding Planned Parenthood, saying there was no more important issue. Christie is still waiting in the wings should Rubio drop like a stone in Iowa for some reason.

Jeb!!!!! Bush: B. Bush is awful at this format, but this was his best debate. That’s probably because Donald Trump wasn’t there to face-plant him in one of their patented exchanges:
BUSH: Apologize, Donald.
TRUMP: No.
BUSH: (Sheepishly) Okay.

Without such exchanges, Bush appeared more in control. He even slammed Rubio on his amnesty plans, and appeared to get the best of him. He still did all the things the establishment love and the rest of us hate: he catered to the politically correct question about Islamophobia from the Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-VT) supporter and cited his family ties and talked about making Puerto Rico a state, which seems like a grand idea with their massive debt and poverty rates. But he’s busily running ads against Rubio, hoping to drop him low enough that he can take Rubio’s slot in New Hampshire. Unlikely. But as Jim Carrey would say in Dumb and Dumber, there’s a chance.

Rand Paul: A. Rand’s supporters in the hall were irritating; Rand name-checked his anti-Semitic father; Rand made his politically correct libertarian play for minority votes. In other words, he did all the things that I don’t like about him.

He also seemed reasoned, in control, and unleashed the knife when necessary. Rand constantly does the dirty work no one else will do on the stage. He ripped out Rubio’s throat on the Gang of Eight bill, unbidden. He undercut Rubio’s foreign policy in Syria. And he went after Cruz, too, calling him “inauthentic” based on his immigration statements on legalization for illegal immigrants in 2013. He didn’t appear desperate or hyperactive, as he has at past debates. His answer on abortion contained some of the best moral language of the campaign, even if he was unclear about how he’d balance state and federal power. Will it help Rand? Probably not. But his rips on Rubio and Cruz could provide a lift for Trump – or someone else.

Ben Carson: C. Aw, wasn’t he cute? He had his usual charming joke about how he’d been ignored early in the debate. He gave a great answer on fighting political correctness to defeat ISIS. He also said something about Vladimir Putin and a horse, apparently. And most of all, he showed he could memorize the beginning of the Constitution. While we await his rendition of Richard III’s opening monologue breathlessly, this wasn’t a performance that will lift him.

John Kasich: OH GOD NO NOT JOHN KASICH. John Kasich is disastrous. His answer on Medicaid was basically that his expansion of the government program was magnificent and he will reap an unearthly reward for it. He said there was a “Kasich Lane” in the primaries, which makes sense – a Prince of Hope and Peace needs his own lane. He did, however, air-chop phantom fruit like a professional ninja.
Will the debate move the needle? Unlikely. Trump, Cruz and Rubio went in as the top-tier candidates, with Trump and Cruz competing for the win – that’s unlikely to change. Which means that everything is up in the air.

Three days to Iowa
 

imaginative

keep your eye on the ball
Trump won that debate without even being there. It was a brilliant anti-establishment move.

I like him more as time goes on.
 

Josie

Has No Life - Lives on TB
IMHO, Trump is looking at this in a practical light. As the frontrunner by a pretty solid margin, he had nothing to lose by NOT doing it. By doing his own thing for vets (a cause that he has been behind since day one of his campaign), it puts him in a favorable light not only with vets but with the voters that see that maybe he does have compassion and he CAN get things done. He put this together in a matter of days. I saw no teleprompter or even any speech notes. (I'm sure there was probably someone on the sidelines with a watch to keep things moving along though.) He even managed to get two of his opponents to make donations and get on stage with him. (Possible unifier?) He gave FOX no new ammo to keep the Kelly-Trump faux feud going. Plus in the eyes of much of the fed up public, he stuck it to the media.

What would he lose if he did the "debate". Well, he might have screwed up and actually alienated some of his following. I am sure Kelly would have tried some more of her "gotcha" type questions. (You can tell the woman is more lawyer than serious journalist. Maybe she should get Murdoch to start some kind of lawyer network for her after this?) He would have lost two hours of his life...never to get it back. And as frontrunner he would be the lightening rod for all attacks from both the so called moderators and his opponents. Not saying he couldn't handle them but why subject yourself to it if you don't have to? Why not do something more productive with that time? Remember, we aren't looking for a martyr. We are looking for a leader.

In short, Trump probably looked at it with his business acumen and thought, I have something to lose and nothing to gain out of this. And then FOX with that snarky press release gave him an out! Trump-1...FOX-0 Good job, Mr. Trump!!
 

shane

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Cruz lost points to Rubio and others in debate and will also lose some more votes to Paul being there.

Spread between Trump and second place Cruz will have widened when votes counted, IMO.

Trump also dodged bullet deluge of contradictory videos in debate, like what Cruz & Rubio got hit with.

Fox was going to slam him big time, he dodged it. Trump was smart not to have done that debate, IMO.

- Shane
 

packyderms_wife

Neither here nor there.
Read somewhere on FB yesterday that Reagan also skipped the last debate before the Iowa Caucus and not only did he win the Iowa Caucus but he also became president.
 
Top