ALERT "They" Are Coming For AR-15 Parts

[Doomer Doug]

I believe a broad based, well planned, funded, mass effort will be made between September and December of 2019 to severely regulate private ownership of personal weapons, degrade the 2nd Amendment, as harass, bully and change the cultural attitudes of Americans to be even more anti gun than it now is.

The Link below tells Doomer Doug that Dennis and his AR-15 upper, or lower individual part for sale and shipping is now a prime target due to the Midland, Texas shooting. For those of you who don't understand how this works, prior to 1968, and RFK and MLK shootings, you could buy various military type weapons, and have them shipped to you. The 1968 gun control act changed all of that, just as it seems to me "they" will make it illegal to order, ship, or possess, or make AR-15 uppers and lowers by the end of this year.

the link is below.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...suspect-gun-used-midland-illegally-made-sold/

Authorities Suspect Gun Used in Midland Was Illegally Made and Sold

Law enforcement authorities believe the gun used in Saturday’s Midland-Odessa shooting was illegally made and illegally sold from a man in Lubbock, Texas.

The Wall Street Journal (WSJ) reported that authorities have “a person of interest” they believe may have made the gun at his home before selling it to the gunman who opened fire on August 31.

It is legal to piece together a gun at home for personal use in numerous states around the country, but it is illegal to sell that gun.

On Monday, Texas Gov. Greg Abbott (R) announced that the Midland-Odessa shooter had “previously failed a gun purchase background check.” However, at that time, how the shooter acquired his gun was still unknown.

The next day reports indicated the shooter had acquired his gun via a private sale to avoid drawing attention to himself with a background check. Now law enforcement believes the gun may have been illegally made and, therefore, illegally sold.



WSJ reported that authorities do not know if the man who sold the gun “knew [the shooter] was a prohibited person when selling him the rifle.” If the seller did know, he could face a federal charge on those grounds in addition to allegedly violating the law against manufacturing and selling guns from one’s home.

AWR Hawkins is an award-winning Second Amendment columnist for Breitbart News and the writer/curator of Down Range with AWR Hawkins, a weekly newsletter focused on all things Second Amendment, also for Breitbart News. He is the political analyst for Armed American Radio. Follow him on Twitter: @AWRHawkins. Reach him directly at awrhawkins@breitbart.com. Sign up to get Down Range at breitbart.com/downrange.

 

[Doomer Doug]

ONE, TWO, THREE KABOOM!!

the link is here.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/...gnals-senate-focus-on-gun-control-this-fall/#

Chuck Schumer Signals Fall Senate Focus on Gun Control

Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer (D-NY) signaled Thursday gun control will be one of his top priorities in the next few months.

To that end, he is sending a letter to Democrats and urging them to push universal background checks and other related measures, according to a letter obtained by Politico.

Schumer is actively urging fellow Democrats to place pressure on Republicans in the Senate – Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY), specifically – to take action on gun control measures.

“President Trump and Senate Republicans have failed to act on the issue of gun violence, bowing repeatedly to the NRA and the hard right by choosing inaction or half-measures over real, meaningful legislation,” Schumer wrote in his missive, according to Politico.

“Comprehensive, evidence-based solutions, like updating our laws to require background checks for all gun sales, must be a part of any congressional action to curb gun violence,” he added.


Democrats have been pushing for gun control legislation following the deadly shootings in El Paso, Dayton, and the Midland-Odessa region. Republicans have expressed doubt that the left’s solutions – universal background checks and bans on “assault” weapons – would make any significant impact on curbing violent crime.

However, McConnell has signaled a willingness to bring a bill to the floor on one condition: It must have the president’s support.

“I said several weeks ago that if the president took a position on a bill so that we knew we would actually be making a law and not just having serial votes, I’d be happy to put it on the floor,” McConnell told radio host Hugh Hewitt.

He continued:

And the administration is in the process of studying what they are prepared to support, if anything. And I expect to get an answer to that next week. If the President is in favor of a number of things that he has discussed openly and publicly, and I know that if we pass it it’ll become law, I’ll put it on the floor.


McConnell previewed the upcoming challenges last month, telling the Terry Meiners Show that gun control measures – an assault weapons ban, specifically – would be a “front and center” Senate issue in the fall.


Trump has indicated that he is more inclined to support a measure that has “something having to do with mental illness” rather than universal background checks, which would have done little to curb most mass shootings, Trump assessed.

“If you look at some of — even the more severe and comprehensive ideas that are being put forward, it wouldn’t have stopped any of the last few years worth of these mass shootings,” Trump told reporters Wednesday.

“I’ve been having a lot of phone discussions and some meetings with different people in the Senate and the House of Representatives and we’ll be making some pretty good determinations pretty soon,” the president said.

“We’re in touch with a lot of different people; there are many proposals put forward — I heard 29 different proposals, so there’s no lack of proposals, so we’ll have to see what happens,” he continued.

Schumer added Senate Democrats “must work to increase pressure on Leader McConnell to stop burying bills he doesn’t like in his graveyard and to get the Senate working again by actually debating and voting on legislation to address our nation’s greatest challenges.”

 

[Doomer Doug]

Senate RINOS Will Cave on Gun Control

For those of you inclined to think Doomer Doug is not seeing this massive gun control effort, or how effective it will be need to understand that as of right now, the US House has already voted to implement multiple gun control laws, including large mag bans, A-15 Assault Rifle Bans, Universal Background Checks etc. The only thing holding up the IMMEDIATE IMPLEMENTATION OF THESE GUN CONTROL MEASURES IS THE US SENATE HASN'T PASSED THEM.

The US Senate is currently 53 Republican, with multiple RINOS, and roughly 46 or so Democrats and Independents.

So, gang ask yourself if the so called RINO Gang of Four, ie Maine's Susan Collins, Or Utah's Mitt Romney, or Lindsay Graham, or any of the several other RINOS would vote to support any of the gun control measures I just mentioned as already having PASSED THE US HOUSE.

So, MITCH THE BITCH, brings a universal background check law to the vote and gets the full 46 or 48 Democrats and all four RINOS to vote it in, and ONE, TWO, THREE: KABOOM YOU GET A 52 TO 48, OR 54, TO 50 VOTE TO IMPLEMENT ALL THE MEASURES IN SEQUENCE AND RAPIDLY.

It's happening, and it will happen possibly by the end of September, and CERTAINLY by the end of the year.

 

[Macgyver]

Article wrong of course. It's not illegal to sell a gun you made. It's only illegal if you make a habit/business of it.
Assuming all other legal parameters are followed.

 

[Doomer Doug]

The Law is What "They" Say It Is

Amigo, it is more a case of "they" have not made it illegal "yet." And so "they" will use this "loophole," call it the "Texas AR-15 Loophole," and use it to ban everything related to the AR-15, parts, assembled or not, mags etc.

It is what "they" do. It is what they have done, time after time, and it works. don't say that Doomer Doug didn't warn you when all of this comes to pass.

The law, we don't need no stinking law, cuz we make what we decide is illegal.

 

[Doc1]

Article wrong of course. It's not illegal to sell a gun you made. It's only illegal if you make a habit/business of it.
Assuming all other legal parameters are followed.

Lots of little legalities here...some of which can get you a prison term. If you buy a 100% finished receiver, like the TB2K ones sold through the board a while back, the receiver "is" the firearm and must be transferred through an FFL dealer. Everything else on the weapon is just parts. If you buy an 80% receiver which is unmarked and that you finish yourself, you are in a different realm as far as transferring it and lots of different laws may apply.

Best
Doc

 

[Dennis Olson]

It is legal to piece together a gun at home for personal use in numerous states around the country, but it is illegal to sell that gun.

It is illegal to sell an UNSERIALIZED gun. If a person bought all the parts and had the lower delivered to a gun shop, filled out the paperwork, and took it home, then built the gun, a sale would be legal.

 

[Dennis Olson]

So, slipping MY tinfoil hat on for a moment - just suppose the shooter was a “soldier” for the Communists. A “sleeper agent” if you will. Now suppose the Communists wanted to outlaw all home made firearms. Further, that the Communists set this whole thing up. The sale of a ghost gun to a suitably “crazy” person in a hotly contested election year, with mass shootings now a weekly occurrence; conservative lawmakers would thus be left with “no choice but to do something.”

Woo? Perhaps. And perhaps not.


It just seems very, very coincidental to me. Perhaps too coincidental.

/tinfoil

 

[samus79]

So, slipping MY tinfoil hat on for a moment - just suppose the shooter was a “soldier” for the Communists. A “sleeper agent” if you will. Now suppose the Communists wanted to outlaw all home made firearms. Further, that the Communists set this whole thing up. The sale of a ghost gun to a suitably “crazy” person in a hotly contested election year, with mass shootings now a weekly occurrence; conservative lawmakers would thus be left with “no choice but to do something.”

Woo? Perhaps. And perhaps not.


It just seems very, very coincidental to me. Perhaps too coincidental.

/tinfoil

I don’t think it’s too far fetched, with the amount of mentally unstable nuts on the left. Just find one that’s suicidal and have him carry out the operation. It’s very convenient that all this gun control talk is going on at the moment, specifically talk of universal background checks and banning private sales. And a perfect situation highlighting the very things they are pushing pops up. Coincidence?

 

[Squid]

The assault on our rights

Will be relentless. They will push multiple attacks on the rights simultaneously. They will win some and lose some but they will not stop.

They either think now is the time or are being pushed by outside parties.

I would not be surprised if there are not activists performing some attacks under direction taking one for the team. The media is happy to send the “story” well ahead of any facts, hell no time to even look for facts there are more fabricated stories to get out.

Those on our side that look at these stories in isolation then they will overwhelmed.

 

[twobarkingdogs]

It is illegal to sell an UNSERIALIZED gun.

I believe that if you research this it is not illegal to sell a gun without a serial number. I say this because prior to 1968 it was not unusual for guns to not have serial numbers. Those are still legal guns and allowed to be sold. I believe that you will find that the dealer buying or selling a firearm without a serial number need only write no serial number or “NSN” in the serial number space in their log book

tbd

 

[intowolves]

something wicked this way comes

 

[Dennis Olson]

tbd, yes they are, but post-1968 guns MUST have a serial number. Ghost guns don’t.

 

[twobarkingdogs]

tbd, yes they are, but post-1968 guns MUST have a serial number. Ghost guns don’t.

Maybe one of the FFL guys will chime in for the following question

This is for someone who is not in the business of making firearms but only made say the one for personal use who's needs have since changed.

Can a homemade gun made within the last year without a serial number -

Be sold legally in a person to person transaction

Be sold legally in a person to FFL transaction

Be sold legally in a FFL to person transaction

Be legally given as a gift from one person to another person


Does this cover everything?

tbd

 

[Shooter]

if you build a rifle to sell. you have t pay a manufacturing tax for a completed rifle, lowers dont pay this tax.

 

[Dennis Olson]

I looked it up. A Post-1968 firearm MUST have a serial number to be sold or transferred. Ghost guns CANNOT be transferred.

 

[Profit of Doom]

I believe in California you have to apply for and receive a SN before making your ghost gun.

 

[intothatgoodnight]

So, slipping MY tinfoil hat on for a moment - just suppose the shooter was a “soldier” for the Communists. A “sleeper agent” if you will. Now suppose the Communists wanted to outlaw all home made firearms. Further, that the Communists set this whole thing up. The sale of a ghost gun to a suitably “crazy” person in a hotly contested election year, with mass shootings now a weekly occurrence; conservative lawmakers would thus be left with “no choice but to do something.”

Woo? Perhaps. And perhaps not.

It just seems very, very coincidental to me. Perhaps too coincidental.

/tinfoil

Will be relentless. They will push multiple attacks on the rights simultaneously. They will win some and lose some but they will not stop.

They either think now is the time or are being pushed by outside parties.

I would not be surprised if there are not activists performing some attacks under direction taking one for the team. The media is happy to send the “story” well ahead of any facts, hell no time to even look for facts there are more fabricated stories to get out.

Those on our side that look at these stories in isolation then they will overwhelmed.

And, has been mentioned on this board, numerous times down through the years - congressional testimony by the chief three-letter bunch, in 1977 (IIRC), talking about real human mind-control studies performed by same said bunch, in the prior previous decades.

So, this three-letter bunch considered human mind control studies to be worthy of their attention, and, the U.S. Congress considered human mind control studies to be worthy of investigation - on public record.

That was in 1977. What sort of human mind control might "they" be capable of in 2019?

Manchurian candidates, custom dipped for that all important plausible deniability factor, prior to delivery to the job site - while the puppet masters quietly smile, all the way to their back teeth.


intothegoodnight

 

[Ractivist]

Is the one off considered in this. One person builds one gun, and then decides it's not what he wanted after all and sells it to an aquaintance. Is that illegal.
If it had a serial number? If it was an 80% he finished and put a number one on it as a serial number, or not, leaving that to the buyer, is that an illegal gun?

 

[twobarkingdogs]

I looked it up. A Post-1968 firearm MUST have a serial number to be sold or transferred. Ghost guns CANNOT be transferred.

And I've been told by an FFL that a P2P transfer of a recently made gun without a serial number is legal as long as the manufacture of the gun was for personal use and not for resale. As well as a transfer through an estate upon a death of the holder

Edit to add that the question came about on if ghost guns could be gifted as say as x-mas gifts.

tbd

 

[Dennis Olson]

You’d better check with another FFL.

Thinwater or Lone Hawk will have a definitive answer. PM them.

 

[Dennis Olson]

Edit to add that the question came about on if ghost guns could be gifted as say as x-mas gifts.

There are numerous first-hand accounts of this being illegal. For awhile, people who owned CNC machines would hold “ghost gun parties”, where people would come over to the person’s house with an 80% lower in-hand, the machine owner would mount the lower, and the lower owner would press START. ATF started prosecuting people for doing that.

You need to do a lot more research.

 

[night driver]

I would not be at all surprised if the FFL involved in the transfer has to create the SN...

 

[Dennis Olson]

http://www.ghostgunlaws.com/

 

[twobarkingdogs]

You’d better check with another FFL.

Thinwater or Lone Hawk will have a definitive answer. PM them.

I was only repeating what I was told and know nothing more then that. I also do not have any issue that this would apply to me as I have no desire to complete 80%'s. It would be interesting to get another ffl opinion as well as what the atf would say on gifts and estate transfers.

tbd

 

[Thinwater]

I almost hate to tread here but here goes, for what it is worth. I have not received any ATF updates in 2 years or kept up with ANY rulings in two years so all of the below may be completely out of date.

1) No serial numbers are requires for self manufactured firearms except NFA regulated items.

2) The ATF made several "Rulings" based on their interpretation of the law, that allowing others to use your manufacturing equipment, even non CNC old school machine shop stuff was "Engaging in manufacturing of a firearm" and requires a license. This may have gone either way since my last reading so your results may vary.

3) Despite many, many hours of reading on ATF.gov web site and federal firearms laws, I have never found where it is unlawful to transfer a homemade firearm IF it was really made for personal use. Factors considered by the ATF are how many were made or sold, time between manufacture and sale, circumstances of sale etc... All other requirements of a private firearms sale still apply (in state, face to face, no known felon etc...). There is some verbiage on several ATF rulings that suggest that transferring such a homemade firearm would first require serializing and even marking with the makers name before the transfer. When these are run down and the cited federal statutes examined they only seem to apply to various licensed manufacturers and or FFL dealers BUT don't base your decision on my opinion alone, it is worth less than you paid for it.

In any case, It is lawful to transfer a homemade firearm IF the sale (Not the gun) meets ALL of the normal requirements for a private sale. The only thing in dispute is if their are any marking requirements. This is assuming that it was really made for personal use and not to sell or transfer. There is much conflicting info on the marking requirement out there and I cant find where ATF ever ruled on that specifically dealing with unmarked, homemade guns.

A little extra for added confusion:

If an 01 FFL (dealer) buys a 100% receiver, it is illegal for him to complete it and sell. If an 07 FFL (Manufacturer) buys a 100% receiver and completes it to sell, he still has to engrave his markings on the gun as the manufacturer and is responsible for the federal excise tax if he meets the minimum number of manufactured firearms for the fiscal year.

 

[NoDandy]

As someone else said, the left, in their quest / drive to achieve their obsession of Gun Control / Gun Confiscation will never, never, never, ever, ever, ever stop to achieve their goal. THEY MUST NEVER, NEVER BE ALLOWED TO POSSESS POWER !!!

 

[Millwright]

Thanks for the input Thinwater.

 

[L.A.B.]

something wicked this way comes

And perhaps it will bring an AK.

Never bought one. Admire the brute reliability of them.

 

[Thinwater]

For what it is worth, the leftist commies do have a bill written that bans ALL AR parts (And everyhing else they call assault weapon), to include raw forgings and even makes it illegal for the forging maker (Or any and all other parts makers or sellers) to advertise, or make known, to even licensed manufacturers, the existence of their parts. It would be illegal for Cerro Forge to email Tactical Machining directly, even if they knew Tactical Machining just got a military contract to make M4's for Uncle Sugar. These leftist commies are absolutely insane. They have a metal deficiency in their brain stem.

 

[Millwright]

What's left of the 2A is the ONLY thing keeping this communist revolution at bay.

They would hunt down and execute every single person with conservative leanings...


and would have done it already.

 

[L.A.B.]

What's left of the 2A is the ONLY thing keeping this communist revolution at bay.

They would hunt down and execute every single person with conservative leanings...


and would have done it already.

Yep...

At least decision making is becoming clearer.

 

[Lone_Hawk]

I almost hate to tread here but here goes, for what it is worth. I have not received any ATF updates in 2 years or kept up with ANY rulings in two years so all of the below may be completely out of date.

1) No serial numbers are requires for self manufactured firearms except NFA regulated items.

2) The ATF made several "Rulings" based on their interpretation of the law, that allowing others to use your manufacturing equipment, even non CNC old school machine shop stuff was "Engaging in manufacturing of a firearm" and requires a license. This may have gone either way since my last reading so your results may vary.

3) Despite many, many hours of reading on ATF.gov web site and federal firearms laws, I have never found where it is unlawful to transfer a homemade firearm IF it was really made for personal use. Factors considered by the ATF are how many were made or sold, time between manufacture and sale, circumstances of sale etc... All other requirements of a private firearms sale still apply (in state, face to face, no known felon etc...). There is some verbiage on several ATF rulings that suggest that transferring such a homemade firearm would first require serializing and even marking with the makers name before the transfer. When these are run down and the cited federal statutes examined they only seem to apply to various licensed manufacturers and or FFL dealers BUT don't base your decision on my opinion alone, it is worth less than you paid for it.

In any case, It is lawful to transfer a homemade firearm IF the sale (Not the gun) meets ALL of the normal requirements for a private sale. The only thing in dispute is if their are any marking requirements. This is assuming that it was really made for personal use and not to sell or transfer. There is much conflicting info on the marking requirement out there and I cant find where ATF ever ruled on that specifically dealing with unmarked, homemade guns.

A little extra for added confusion:

If an 01 FFL (dealer) buys a 100% receiver, it is illegal for him to complete it and sell. If an 07 FFL (Manufacturer) buys a 100% receiver and completes it to sell, he still has to engrave his markings on the gun as the manufacturer and is responsible for the federal excise tax if he meets the minimum number of manufactured firearms for the fiscal year.

Thinwater,

I agree with your post above. But, ask three ATF agents a question, and you will get three different answers...

 

[Millwright]

Thinwater,

I agree with your post above. But, ask three ATF agents a question, and you will get three different answers...

Why a letter of clarification from the ATF still doesn't mean squat?

 

[Squib]

Doug, maybe I’m tired, but did you mean to type 1919 in your post?

 

[Dennis Olson]

At a bare minimum, 30 rd mags will be outlawed before the end of the year.

 

[Shooter]

I saw that to and wondered, the National Prohibition Act, was in 1919, and after it was repealed, the agents were moved to make the ATF. and that started all the trouble

 

[Trouble]

At a bare minimum, 30 rd mags will be outlawed before the end of the year.

Im positive there will be a magazine ban in place soon, red flag nonsense and mandatory back ground checks. Pistol braces are probably going bye bye as well. Buy up now folks, I know I am.

 

[twobarkingdogs]

I almost hate to tread here but here goes, for what it is worth. I have not received any ATF updates in 2 years or kept up with ANY rulings in two years so all of the below may be completely out of date.

1) No serial numbers are requires for self manufactured firearms except NFA regulated items.

2) The ATF made several "Rulings" based on their interpretation of the law, that allowing others to use your manufacturing equipment, even non CNC old school machine shop stuff was "Engaging in manufacturing of a firearm" and requires a license. This may have gone either way since my last reading so your results may vary.

3) Despite many, many hours of reading on ATF.gov web site and federal firearms laws, I have never found where it is unlawful to transfer a homemade firearm IF it was really made for personal use. Factors considered by the ATF are how many were made or sold, time between manufacture and sale, circumstances of sale etc... All other requirements of a private firearms sale still apply (in state, face to face, no known felon etc...). There is some verbiage on several ATF rulings that suggest that transferring such a homemade firearm would first require serializing and even marking with the makers name before the transfer. When these are run down and the cited federal statutes examined they only seem to apply to various licensed manufacturers and or FFL dealers BUT don't base your decision on my opinion alone, it is worth less than you paid for it.

In any case, It is lawful to transfer a homemade firearm IF the sale (Not the gun) meets ALL of the normal requirements for a private sale. The only thing in dispute is if their are any marking requirements. This is assuming that it was really made for personal use and not to sell or transfer. There is much conflicting info on the marking requirement out there and I cant find where ATF ever ruled on that specifically dealing with unmarked, homemade guns.

A little extra for added confusion:

If an 01 FFL (dealer) buys a 100% receiver, it is illegal for him to complete it and sell. If an 07 FFL (Manufacturer) buys a 100% receiver and completes it to sell, he still has to engrave his markings on the gun as the manufacturer and is responsible for the federal excise tax if he meets the minimum number of manufactured firearms for the fiscal year.

Thinwater, Thank you for your post. Your point #3 kind of goes along with what the FFL in my AO said. But as you say the ATF is unclear on this point so better be safe then sorry

tbd

 

[night driver]

Those "Clarification" Letters can (and often DO) change based on the phase of the moon and the consistency of the writers' morning dump THAT DAY.