GUNS/RLTD Should I Buy Self Defense Insurance? Response from Dave Ramsey

[Old Gray Mare]

Dave Ramsey discusses his opinions on Self Defense Insurance. According to the video he carries on a regular basis. His opinions may or may not be yours. Thought it worth a listen and maybe some discussion. Insurance is some thing I'd rather have and not need that need and not have. This particular insurance I'm not sure if it would be worth the cost. YMMV.

fair use.
Should I Buy Self Defense Insurance?

The Dave Ramsey Show
Published on Jun 17, 2018

Should I Buy Self Defense Insurance?

Link to source:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7ZWZ60saeg

run time 5:34

 

[Luddite]

The comments seem to agree "5 minutes to say you don't know?"

The last 30 seconds of the video was worth my other 5 minutes.

 

[Old Gray Mare]

Dave seems to want to rely on active shooter training and common sense. I'm wondering if that's enough? Maybe it is in Texas, but not so much in blue areas of the country?

 

[Dennis Olson]

Anyone who carries in public today needs it. Thinking otherwise is foolish.

 

[CaryC]

Anyone who carries in public today needs it. Thinking otherwise is foolish.

Agreed! And it's not so much the good sense of the person caring, but rather the stupidity of the cops. They are the ones, and the reason, you need defense insurance.

Waving a gun around, and not shooting it, just to chase someone away, can be considered as assault by the cops, which means handcuffs, and a free ride to jail, etc. Then giving the cops some time they will add on charges.

Not having a lawyer on speed dial, is playing into their hands.

Dave Ramsey obviously doesn't carry, so why listen to him? If he did, he would know.

 

[Jeep]

I have carry insurance and I hope I'll never have to use it. It's like having homeowners or car insurance, it's there IF you need it.

 

[Dennis Olson]

Waving a gun around

That’s called “brandishing” and is a crime. Maybe he should just do a Biden....

 

[danielsga]

And he already has lawyer friends and the cash to pay them

 

[Housecarl]

Agreed! And it's not so much the good sense of the person caring, but rather the stupidity of the cops. They are the ones, and the reason, you need defense insurance.

Waving a gun around, and not shooting it, just to chase someone away, can be considered as assault by the cops, which means handcuffs, and a free ride to jail, etc. Then giving the cops some time they will add on charges.

Not having a lawyer on speed dial, is playing into their hands.

Dave Ramsey obviously doesn't carry, so why listen to him? If he did, he would know.

^^^^^THIS^^^^^

 

[Creedmoor]

I seem to recall that in WA state they made this kind of insurance illegal / unavailable.

 

[Housecarl]

Waving a gun around

That’s called “brandishing” and is a crime. Maybe he should just do a Biden....

And "brandishing" is in the eye of the beholder, morphable to assault with a deadly weapon if TPTB so choose.

 

[hiwall]

Anyone who carries in public today needs it. Thinking otherwise is foolish.

I 100% disagree. I am fully on-board for the people who want it to get it. Most people (depends on where you live) will Never draw their gun in their lifetime. As with ANY insurance you have to look at from your personal risk. If you have the money and live where there is a slightly higher chance of you drawing your gun then by all means get the insurance. If you always carry and live in a high risk area but you have no assets then why get the insurance?
The odds of any person on this website ever needing this insurance is extremely small but everyone has to do their own cost-to-risk analysis.

 

[Normallguy]

New CCW holder and a new 9mm I'm breaking in.
I have looked at the different insurance providers and wonder who here has a preference or referral.

Thanks,
Jeff

 

[Dennis Olson]

Yeah, that $12 a month for lawyers and up to a million dollar bond is killing me. Far too expensive to merit consideration. Further, every shot fired doesn’t have a lawyer attached to it.

/sarc

Thanks for proving my point.

 

[TerryK]

Check your policy carefully and compare. The cheaper ones only pay after the case is settled.
Some max lawyers fees at 50K, not nearly enough.
Don't go with the bargain basement policy if you decide to get one.
You might not need the best one either.
Weigh the pros and cons about what each offers.

The cost of this kind of insurance should probably be figured in as part of the cost of gun ownership.
Saying that, you should also have good car insurance, house and property insurance or renters insurance, as well as an umbrella policy. All part of the cost of living in modern society.

Speaking of costs. The CCW self defense insurance cost will probably be going up in the next year or two.
Also as the article below says, some companies are dropping out of participation in this type of insurance and less publicized is the fact that underwriters are being pushed to stop underwriting these kinds of policies.

After all is said and done, it's a personal decision, but as far as I'm concerned it makes since and I have it.



https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/06/gun...rance-tougher-following-florida-shooting.html

Gun owners may find getting self-defense insurance tougher following Florida shooting
Published Tue, Mar 6 2018 2:36 PM EST
Lorie Konish
@LorieKonish




Key Points

* Insurers Chubb and Lockton have both announced plans to stop selling National Rifle Association-branded insurance policies for gun owners.
* The coverage offers owners protection against legal costs when they use their firearms for self-defense.
* Owners need to carefully evaluate their coverage, particularly liability through their homeowners’ insurance.


Gun owners who want specialized insurance for their firearms may have less access to one kind of policy following a shooting massacre in Florida last month.

Insurance company Chubb said on Feb. 23 that it will stop underwriting an insurance policy for gun owners called NRA Carry Guard. The National Rifle Association-branded insurance covers gun owners in the event they face legal action following firearm incidents.

“Three months ago, Chubb provided notice of our intent to discontinue participation in the NRA Carry Guard insurance program under the terms of our contract,” Chubb said in a statement.

Lockton, another insurance company, followed on Feb. 26 with the announcement that it will no longer sell products tied to the NRA, including Carry Guard insurance and insurance for gun show operators.

The announcements follow a Feb. 14 shooting that killed 17 people at the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida.

The NRA began selling its current line of Carry Guard insurance last year. The policies aim to help individuals who use firearms for self-defense cover their legal expenses.

The policies start at $13.95 per month, or $154.95 annually, for $250,000 in civil protection and $50,000 in criminal defense protection.

The highest-level coverage costs $49.95 per month, or $549.95 annually. It includes up to $1.5 million in civil protection and $250,000 in criminal defense protection.

The policies target gaps that homeowners’ policies do not cover. That includes “unexpected procedures and costs associated with proving you acted in self defense,” the NRA states on its website. That could be costs associated with civil and criminal legal defenses, bail payments, legal retainer fees, and replacement of firearms, among other items.
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VIDEO01:38
BlackRock talking with clients about exposure to gun stocks

The United States Concealed Carry Association, or USCCA, also provides liability insurance.

“Even in a crystal clear self-defense case, you’re often charged with a crime,” said Tim Schmidt, president and founder of USCCA.

USCCA’s policies start at $22 per month, or $247 per year, for $500,000 in civil suit defense and damages coverage and $100,000 in criminal defense protection. The highest level of coverage costs $47 per month, or $497 per year, for $2 million in civil suit defense and damages coverage and $250,000 in criminal defense protection. The organization currently has about 270,000 individual policy owners.

“I think there is kind of a rebirth of new people coming into the concept of wanting to be responsibly armed,” Schmidt said.

Requests for comment from the NRA were not returned.

 

[Dennis Olson]

Mine is www.ccwsafe.com

About $150 a year

 

[Anti-Liberal]

I 100% disagree. I am fully on-board for the people who want it to get it. Most people (depends on where you live) will Never draw their gun in their lifetime. As with ANY insurance you have to look at from your personal risk. If you have the money and live where there is a slightly higher chance of you drawing your gun then by all means get the insurance. If you always carry and live in a high risk area but you have no assets then why get the insurance?
The odds of any person on this website ever needing this insurance is extremely small but everyone has to do their own cost-to-risk analysis.

Ten years ago I might have agreed with you but now just being white makes people angry. This is a new reality and we're still a year and a couple months before the election. The chances of drawing down on someone are increasing every day.

 

[Knoxville's Joker]

I use USCCA. with all the foster children stuff I deal with, and the fact that 80% of them have gang affiliations, I figured the security was worth it. I have had three different foster children threaten me with gang violence, so there is that as well. The case workers blow off such things, but the threat is made and I make sure it gets put on their record. The fact that I am in potshot distance from the interstate does not help things either at all...

 

[biere]

All the threads we have on how short staffed police departments are and how they are lowering hiring standards should cause more and more folks to feel they need insurance. I need to sit down and compare options and get one in place, I like to procrastinate.

I plan to also go through the home insurance, gun insurance, and probably the car insurance but went through it not that long ago.

My personal opinion comes down to if you are worried about a lawsuit from a fender bender, why are you not worried about firing a round in self defense?

 

[hiwall]

My personal opinion comes down to if you are worried about a lawsuit from a fender bender, why are you not worried about firing a round in self defense?

Like ANY insurance, it is all about the odds of the event happening.
Why is so-called self-defense insurance so cheap? Because the insurance companies know that the odds are it will never be used.

 

[Dennis Olson]

Many years ago, I was watching an episode of the nascent “60 Minutes”. I was quite young. This was back in the 60’s. They were interviewing some old guy, a business tycoon of some kind. He was known for always carrying a gun. Naturally, one of the questions focused on that. Though I remember nothing else of the interview, I remember his response:

A gun is like a tourniquet. You may never need one, but if you ever do, you need it badly, and very quickly.


That statement is why I own and carry to this day. It’s obvious to me hiwall, that you were never part of the Y2K prep movement as so many of us here were. Had you been, the statement below would make sense to you, and you wouldn’t talke the position you have:

It’s not the ODDS; it’s the STAKES.

I suggest you contemplate that for awhile.

 

[Publius]

Not sure what laws that are enacted in every state but some states have passed laws protecting the every day Jane & Joe on the street from state hired attorneys and judges and intended to keep the public servants from twisting it into a crime in their favor or getting a conviction at any cost.

West Virginia is one of these states and to think correct thinking elected officials have to pass laws to protect the citizen that used a weapon to defended themselves and the lives of others from aggressive attorneys and judges that do not want you to have this right. West Virginia has enacted a stand your ground law that is very well worded.

 

[CaryC]

From the insurance companies perspective it is about the odds, and that's how they figure premiums.

From the individuals perspective it's about the stakes.

It should be from the insurance companies perspective that the more they have insured, the odds, or likely hood of an event goes down, and so should the price. IF the insurance company can provide material/devices (note something to plug into your car to track everything you do) to makes the odds of an event even less, your price should go down. In the CCW Insurance business USCCA provides all kinds of material, and training to PREVENT an incident from happening, thus lowering their cost.

For the individual, a single incident, ONE SINGLE INCIDENT, especially with a stupid cop, can cost you everything - the stakes of an incident. For any individual to go into any police station, and the first words out of your mouth isn't "I want my lawyer" is a complete dummy. Lawyer fees fun roughly 500.00 an hour, and in some, or even most cases that comes with a minimum number of hours, like 3 hours = 1500.00. And that's not counting things like court costs, bail/bond, sometimes the years it takes to go through the system, etc. The toll that would take on your family, job, friends, etc.

Now take all that, and divide it by 150.00 a year.

So with the stakes in play, is it worth the cost? In my opinion very much so. Having a 2A attorney on speed dial, with bail/bond money if very much worth it. And for my state the USCCA attorney on call, is the one who writes the gun bill's for the legislature. So with that guy representing me, and not some appointed attorney by the state, I not only think I have a fair chance in court, but may never go to court. With the understanding that I didn't do something wrong, or stupid. And to avoid that, get the training, go to the range, let someone put you under pressure, etc. It's just as important as the insurance.

 

[GammaRat]

Go Ahead!

Voluntarily put your name on another list.

..

These days, corporations are in league with the tyrannical government.

 

[CaryC]

Go Ahead!

Voluntarily put your name on another list.

..

These days, corporations are in league with the tyrannical government.

If you have a CCW license you're already on a list, this one more won't make any difference to the government, but it will to you.

Course if you don't have a CCW license and still carry, then I recommend having a large bank account, because the government will take everything you have in an incident.

Free country, and your choice.

Course one could say just being on this board puts you on a government list.

 

[hiwall]

Course if you don't have a CCW license and still carry, then I recommend having a large bank account, because the government will take everything you have in an incident.

Unless you live in a free state.

I always carry and have carried consistently for maybe 20 years. I have only ever drawn my gun once and that was for a dog that I should have shot but did not. I hope everyone who feels they need the insurance do get it.

It’s not the ODDS; it’s the STAKES.

I certainly see your point and I at least somewhat agree. To me it's like many parts of prepping. You prep for the things that you reasonably expect to possibly happen.

 

[Dennis Olson]

You sound like what we used to call a “Polly” (Pollyanna) or DGI (Doesn’t Get It.)


“It can never happen to me.” And you’re right. Until it does.


Then yer fooked.

 

[CaryC]

Unless you live in a free state.

I always carry and have carried consistently for maybe 20 years. I have only ever drawn my gun once and that was for a dog that I should have shot but did not. I hope everyone who feels they need the insurance do get it.


I certainly see your point and I at least somewhat agree. To me it's like many parts of prepping. You prep for the things that you reasonably expect to possibly happen.

I do.

Which only means you are free to carry. Which is cool BTW.

UNTIL you pull it out. THEN all the rules and laws that apply to NON-free states apply to you, and better not cross states lines either because you'll be under even more laws and rules.

In our Free State, MS, (at least I think it was our state because the local news kept us updated) a lady (white) who was the camp manager of a camping ground, pulled out a hog leg, and was going to run off some people who had no business hanging around there. They (GTR) had a phone and recorded the whole thing.

SHE got arrested on assault charges, taken away in police car, cuffs etc. lost her job, spent time in jail earlier in the summer, and then had a court date a couple of days ago, and was sentenced, to so many months in jail.

But it's a free state and SHE can carry all she wants. Or at least she could.

I don't know if she had insurance or not, they (the News) don't tell you that, but you kind of wonder if she didn't, what all it would cost her out of her pocket. BTW I've been in civil suit court cases, and lawyers won't even look at your case for under 2000.00, and we won.

BTW my comment to Gamma Rat, wasn't saying anything bad about this board in particular, but rather the state of our government, NSA, etc. When Janet Reno was AG we were, and may be still are, like No.6 on her list. No. 6 on her list of terrorist, was "Fundamental Christian Conservative". Notice that has nothing to do with guns either.

 

[Dennis Olson]

Defending a CCW shoot will cost not less than $50,000, and often much more. Those who have $50k to piss away on attorneys, well, God bless ya. Most of us don’t.


A gun is like a tourniquet. You may never need one, but if you ever do, you need it badly, and very quickly.

 

[sssarawolf]

After all we no longer live in the U.S.A. It has become the U.S.S. A.

 

[JCnKC]

My understanding is that you simply cannot afford not to.

 

[biere]

Does everyone posting in here without insurance have a lawyer's number to call if they did use their ccw for self defense?

Know what it will cost to get the lawyer and his ball rolling on your case? Know what average cases cost and that you don't get reimbursed for proving you are right?

Consider it me throwing money away. I feel the same way about some of the car insurance stuff and cell phone fees I have to pay as well. I have car insurance, why should I have to pay for uninsured motorist coverage? Shouldn't folks without insurance start walking while their car goes to the crusher?

I will stop now. I consider the waste of money as some see it to be worth the piece of mind. And I meant piece not peace but both do apply.