ALERT Russia: Attack on Tehran is Attack on Moscow!!!

[jim_bo]

JMO but I think we should pull every single cent of foreign aid to everyone, use the money to reinvest in our military and energy production. Suck it up for five years and go without whatever we can't manufacture here. We need to face the fact that we have bought zero loyalty and security by providing aid, so it stops now.

Then we tell countries like Saudi Arabia to eat their sand and drink their oil, we tell Japan, thanks but no thanks, we're buying American, and we tell China to shove it. If anyone looks sideways we give them a little pinch.

We tell the bad guys exactly what we will do if they cross a line. Iran makes a bomb? We take out every reactor. Syria starts sniffing around Israel, buh-bye. African pirate comes too close to one of our recreational yachts? Say good bye to your village.

I'm done with being the good guys while the rest of the world craps on us. Let's just live up to everyone else's expectations and we'll all be happy.

RD

Spot on buddy!

Jim_bo

 

[wab54]

+1000 great thinking Hfcomms.

Over the years, on many forums, I've seen keyboard cowboys advocate attacking one country or another.
I've asked a simple question. The question is, should we bomb Iran, knowing that Russia would retaliate against us? Unfortunately, I'm not seeing any posts on the question. Is there a reason for that?

I might be wrong but I dont see Russia getting into a Nuclear War over Iran and the stupid things they do.


WAB

 

[Housecarl]

I'm curious. How many members are in favor of bombing Iran?

The problem is that "just" bombing Iran won't fix the problem. If you want this problem to really "go away" you need to change the regime in Tehran, Pyongyang, Moscow and Beijing. The opportunity for that in Tehran was missed in the "Green Revolution" by Obama. Whether or not the people inside the Beltway understand it or not, the Iranians and North Koreans are an integral part of the "Great Game" being played out by Russia, the PRC, the U.S. and EU.

 

[Shea Grey]

I'm curious. How many members are in favor of bombing Iran?

Doc, i'm telling you, this will be a completely Israeli operation. THEY HAVE to do it, they are a 'one bomb' nation.....and if the world thinks Israel cant do it....wait and watch. i can promise you, NO ONE in Israeli military leadership WANTS this, but for over sixty F###ing years, we just want a chance to live, exist, a tiny little nation, every single day surrounded, outnumbered by hundreds of millions of people that want our blood....the only nation who has to justify their existence, day after day after day...5 million people, tiny and surrounded, and now THIS?

in 1973, Golda KNEW they were going to attack, but she also knew Israel couldnt do another pre-emptive attack like the one six years prior coz the Russians would come unglued, so she had the IDF take the blow,they barely held the line, only when she put 13 F-4 Phantoms on the ready tarmac, loaded with nukes, phoned Dick Nixon and told him, 'we need resupply NOW, or i will unleash absolute destruction upon my enemies', did that greasy used car salesman of a president consent to empty NATO stocks and resupply Israel....she didnt ask for troops, the boys, bloodied and battered, they handled it, all they needed were more bullets, more tanks, more arty shells. they didnt ask for any American boys...they just asked for the chance to defend themselves and in a week, Arik Sharon, punched thru the Egyptian lines, crossed the Suez, and came up behind the egyptian 3rd Army, and surrounded them in the Sinai, making it a huge prisoner of war camp that was only relieved after the russians started stomping and screaming. Israel BROKE the syrians who had made deep armored thrusts into the Jezreel Valley...one young IDF tank commander had SEVEN tanks shot out from under him, he just kept going from tank to tank, wounded, exhausted, but he didnt GIVE. Israel could have driven to both cairo and damascus...the road to damascus just LAY open, like a ten dollar whore, and Israel could have ruined both those capitals, but they didnt......the arabs? those cruel MF'ers?....if they had the chance they would have leveled Tel Aviv, they would hang kids and slit open women and old ladies...these are some barbarous MF'ers, they TAKE JOY in killing their own brood, sunni kills shia, shia kills sunni..;....we'd had to deal with these people for THREE millenia...and now this.

no, Israel cannot take this blow...the iranians made an explicit nuclear threat. Israel doesnt need the US to participate in the attack, just some ressupply, a lil intel, cover the flanks, maybe militarily, undoubtably in the UN...but its going to go down like this, little guys squirts a can of wd40 in the eyes of the big guy, blinds him, kicks his nuts up into his throat, drives a dagger into his heart, and then cuts his head off....96 hours, thats how long it will last.

nobody was around to save us when hitler was murdering us.......those days are gone. we're no longer sheep destined for slaughter, weak and compliant...no, ....no no no, its a new world now, Jews with nukes, so get your seat belts on, and Doc, i say this SO respectfully to you and everyone here, i know lil Barry hates Bibi, hates Israel....fine, i am NO chickenhawk, i will take my US passport, grab my son, call the nearest Israeli consulate, claim 'right of return', check my 'swords' on board the next El Al flight, and i am gone. and that would break my heart, coz i love this country, America....but i am a Jew. Shea

 

[Shea Grey]

I've read some of the Chinese military's white papers on a future conflict with the U.S. They do not see themselves taking us on directly in a head to head military conflict but they will wage war in non-conventional areas. A major target of them will be our very vulnerable computerized information infrastructure.
.

HF, spot on, you nailed it. Thats how they come at us...those two senior PLA Colonels who wrote that tretise on asymetrical warfare were some pretty sharp military minds.

 

[The Flying Dutchman]

Doc, i'm telling you, this will be a completely Israeli operation. THEY HAVE to do it, they are a 'one bomb' nation.....and if the world thinks Israel cant do it....wait and watch. i can promise you, NO ONE in Israeli military leadership WANTS this, but for over sixty F###ing years, we just want a chance to live, exist, a tiny little nation, every single day surrounded, outnumbered by hundreds of millions of people that want our blood....the only nation who has to justify their existence, day after day after day...5 million people, tiny and surrounded, and now THIS?

in 1973, Golda KNEW they were going to attack, but she also knew Israel couldnt do another pre-emptive attack like the one six years prior coz the Russians would come unglued, so she had the IDF take the blow,they barely held the line, only when she put 13 F-4 Phantoms on the ready tarmac, loaded with nukes, phoned Dick Nixon and told him, 'we need resupply NOW, or i will unleash absolute destruction upon my enemies', did that greasy used car salesman of a president consent to empty NATO stocks and resupply Israel....she didnt ask for troops, the boys, bloodied and battered, they handled it, all they needed were more bullets, more tanks, more arty shells. they didnt ask for any American boys...they just asked for the chance to defend themselves and in a week, Arik Sharon, punched thru the Egyptian lines, crossed the Suez, and came up behind the egyptian 3rd Army, and surrounded them in the Sinai, making it a huge prisoner of war camp that was only relieved after the russians started stomping and screaming. Israel BROKE the syrians who had made deep armored thrusts into the Jezreel Valley...one young IDF tank commander had SEVEN tanks shot out from under him, he just kept going from tank to tank, wounded, exhausted, but he didnt GIVE. Israel could have driven to both cairo and damascus...the road to damascus just LAY open, like a ten dollar whore, and Israel could have ruined both those capitals, but they didnt......the arabs? those cruel MF'ers?....if they had the chance they would have leveled Tel Aviv, they would hang kids and slit open women and old ladies...these are some barbarous MF'ers, they TAKE JOY in killing their own brood, sunni kills shia, shia kills sunni..;....we'd had to deal with these people for THREE millenia...and now this.

no, Israel cannot take this blow...the iranians made an explicit nuclear threat. Israel doesnt need the US to participate in the attack, just some ressupply, a lil intel, cover the flanks, maybe militarily, undoubtably in the UN...but its going to go down like this, little guys squirts a can of wd40 in the eyes of the big guy, blinds him, kicks his nuts up into his throat, drives a dagger into his heart, and then cuts his head off....96 hours, thats how long it will last.

nobody was around to save us when hitler was murdering us.......those days are gone. we're no longer sheep destined for slaughter, weak and compliant...no, ....no no no, its a new world now, Jews with nukes, so get your seat belts on, and Doc, i say this SO respectfully to you and everyone here, i know lil Barry hates Bibi, hates Israel....fine, i am NO chickenhawk, i will take my US passport, grab my son, call the nearest Israeli consulate, claim 'right of return', check my 'swords' on board the next El Al flight, and i am gone. and that would break my heart, coz i love this country, America....but i am a Jew. Shea

No....My friend;

Sir! You are a PATRIOT!

I well remember the Yom Kippour war. And watching those "dark hours" unfold; wondering and waiting (to see if we needed to instantly E/E...). As the world plunged to the edge of Armageddon.

=

 

[AustinPSD]

Dear Doc---

I don't know Morse Code (and my Boy Scout hubby and sons don't know it well enough) to read this---could you please send me a PM with a translation (or post it)?

A somewhat paraphrased version:

ATTN. ITS TIME TO READJUST THE DEPENDS. TIME MAY BE SHORT. THE RUSSIANS CHINESE ARE COMING.

 

[Caplock50]

Doc, how do you know, absolutely, that russia will retaliate for a strike on Iran? Remember, you agreed that russia is very untrustworthy...so how do you know for a true fact that they will...and you did state it like it was a true fact.

 

[Michael111]

Doc, i'm telling you, this will be a completely Israeli operation. THEY HAVE to do it, they are a 'one bomb' nation.....and if the world thinks Israel cant do it....wait and watch. i can promise you, NO ONE in Israeli military leadership WANTS this, but for over sixty F###ing years, we just want a chance to live, exist, a tiny little nation, every single day surrounded, outnumbered by hundreds of millions of people that want our blood....the only nation who has to justify their existence, day after day after day...5 million people, tiny and surrounded, and now THIS?

in 1973, Golda KNEW they were going to attack, but she also knew Israel couldnt do another pre-emptive attack like the one six years prior coz the Russians would come unglued, so she had the IDF take the blow,they barely held the line, only when she put 13 F-4 Phantoms on the ready tarmac, loaded with nukes, phoned Dick Nixon and told him, 'we need resupply NOW, or i will unleash absolute destruction upon my enemies', did that greasy used car salesman of a president consent to empty NATO stocks and resupply Israel....she didnt ask for troops, the boys, bloodied and battered, they handled it, all they needed were more bullets, more tanks, more arty shells. they didnt ask for any American boys...they just asked for the chance to defend themselves and in a week, Arik Sharon, punched thru the Egyptian lines, crossed the Suez, and came up behind the egyptian 3rd Army, and surrounded them in the Sinai, making it a huge prisoner of war camp that was only relieved after the russians started stomping and screaming. Israel BROKE the syrians who had made deep armored thrusts into the Jezreel Valley...one young IDF tank commander had SEVEN tanks shot out from under him, he just kept going from tank to tank, wounded, exhausted, but he didnt GIVE. Israel could have driven to both cairo and damascus...the road to damascus just LAY open, like a ten dollar whore, and Israel could have ruined both those capitals, but they didnt......the arabs? those cruel MF'ers?....if they had the chance they would have leveled Tel Aviv, they would hang kids and slit open women and old ladies...these are some barbarous MF'ers, they TAKE JOY in killing their own brood, sunni kills shia, shia kills sunni..;....we'd had to deal with these people for THREE millenia...and now this.

no, Israel cannot take this blow...the iranians made an explicit nuclear threat. Israel doesnt need the US to participate in the attack, just some ressupply, a lil intel, cover the flanks, maybe militarily, undoubtably in the UN...but its going to go down like this, little guys squirts a can of wd40 in the eyes of the big guy, blinds him, kicks his nuts up into his throat, drives a dagger into his heart, and then cuts his head off....96 hours, thats how long it will last.

nobody was around to save us when hitler was murdering us.......those days are gone. we're no longer sheep destined for slaughter, weak and compliant...no, ....no no no, its a new world now, Jews with nukes, so get your seat belts on, and Doc, i say this SO respectfully to you and everyone here, i know lil Barry hates Bibi, hates Israel....fine, i am NO chickenhawk, i will take my US passport, grab my son, call the nearest Israeli consulate, claim 'right of return', check my 'swords' on board the next El Al flight, and i am gone. and that would break my heart, coz i love this country, America....but i am a Jew. Shea

G-d bless you Shea! Your comment has almost brought me to tears!!! My father and grandfather fought the wars in Israel! Am Yisroel Chai. I LOVE my country also...but I too am a Jew!!!

 

[China Connection]

Well after what I have seen done to Libya, Afghanistan, and Iraq I am glad to see someone come in and put a stop to the destruction that is being carried out. Afghanistan used to be a safe country to hike through that was full of friendly poor people. Now it is a hell hole. Libya was developing its agriculture water supply. Now it is back in the stone age. Could go on but the point is as a country most in the US don't seem to care less about other races. You use technology you have to destroy not assist other countries these days. You used to come into countries and assist with technology once. In those days you were loved. Now you are hated.

Will this war be stopped? Meaning World War Three! I very much doubt it, We will see the start of it before the year is out. There will be no winners in the coming war except Satan. There will be rejoicing after the next World War but it will be short lived. According to the bible God has to intervene before man totally wipes himself out. My own opinion is that this coming war will be short lived but will bring in the start of the seven year tribulation period talked of in the bible.

Tribulation - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster ...

Related to TRIBULATION
Synonyms: affliction, agony, anguish, excruciation, hurt, misery, pain, rack, strait(s), torment, torture, travail, distress, woe

Definition of TRIBULATION. : distress or suffering resulting from oppression or
persecution; also : a trying experience <the trials and tribulations of starting a
new ...
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tribulation

 

[Caplock50]

"ATTN. ITS TIME TO READJUST THE DEPENDS. TIME MAY BE SHORT. THE RUSSIANS CHINESE ARE COMING."

Sorry, I don't wear depends. I wear a gunbelt.

 

[mt4design]

I see the rub as this...

Who says WE would attack first?

Iran is threatening attacks in the Straight.

Iran is backing paramilitary forces against Israel AND they are backing forces against Arab states like SA, Qatar, etc.

Iran is backing Syria and Assad (who is in a literal fight for his life and future).

Iran is in tight with Venezuela and Hugo Chavez who finds his self under pressure.

Russia is like the big right cross. We know it's there and we'll cover our head for that blow but it's going to be the punches to the gut and kidneys that are going to bend our knees.

That is when that right cross will come for the knock out.

Mike

 

[Countrymouse]

Doc, i'm telling you, this will be a completely Israeli operation. THEY HAVE to do it, they are a 'one bomb' nation.....and if the world thinks Israel cant do it....wait and watch. i can promise you, NO ONE in Israeli military leadership WANTS this, but for over sixty F###ing years, we just want a chance to live, exist, a tiny little nation, every single day surrounded, outnumbered by hundreds of millions of people that want our blood....the only nation who has to justify their existence, day after day after day...5 million people, tiny and surrounded, and now THIS?

in 1973, Golda KNEW they were going to attack, but she also knew Israel couldnt do another pre-emptive attack like the one six years prior coz the Russians would come unglued, so she had the IDF take the blow,they barely held the line, only when she put 13 F-4 Phantoms on the ready tarmac, loaded with nukes, phoned Dick Nixon and told him, 'we need resupply NOW, or i will unleash absolute destruction upon my enemies', did that greasy used car salesman of a president consent to empty NATO stocks and resupply Israel....she didnt ask for troops, the boys, bloodied and battered, they handled it, all they needed were more bullets, more tanks, more arty shells. they didnt ask for any American boys...they just asked for the chance to defend themselves and in a week, Arik Sharon, punched thru the Egyptian lines, crossed the Suez, and came up behind the egyptian 3rd Army, and surrounded them in the Sinai, making it a huge prisoner of war camp that was only relieved after the russians started stomping and screaming. Israel BROKE the syrians who had made deep armored thrusts into the Jezreel Valley...one young IDF tank commander had SEVEN tanks shot out from under him, he just kept going from tank to tank, wounded, exhausted, but he didnt GIVE. Israel could have driven to both cairo and damascus...the road to damascus just LAY open, like a ten dollar whore, and Israel could have ruined both those capitals, but they didnt......the arabs? those cruel MF'ers?....if they had the chance they would have leveled Tel Aviv, they would hang kids and slit open women and old ladies...these are some barbarous MF'ers, they TAKE JOY in killing their own brood, sunni kills shia, shia kills sunni..;....we'd had to deal with these people for THREE millenia...and now this.

no, Israel cannot take this blow...the iranians made an explicit nuclear threat. Israel doesnt need the US to participate in the attack, just some ressupply, a lil intel, cover the flanks, maybe militarily, undoubtably in the UN...but its going to go down like this, little guys squirts a can of wd40 in the eyes of the big guy, blinds him, kicks his nuts up into his throat, drives a dagger into his heart, and then cuts his head off....96 hours, thats how long it will last.

nobody was around to save us when hitler was murdering us.......those days are gone. we're no longer sheep destined for slaughter, weak and compliant...no, ....no no no, its a new world now, Jews with nukes, so get your seat belts on, and Doc, i say this SO respectfully to you and everyone here, i know lil Barry hates Bibi, hates Israel....fine, i am NO chickenhawk, i will take my US passport, grab my son, call the nearest Israeli consulate, claim 'right of return', check my 'swords' on board the next El Al flight, and i am gone. and that would break my heart, coz i love this country, America....but i am a Jew. Shea

Your post made me want to cheer!

Israel's existence is a miracle, and one that Satan tries constantly to destroy, so he can prove God a liar.

He will lose.

Omen and Omen to your post, brother in Jeshua HaMashiach!

 

[Shea Grey]

G-d bless you Shea! Your comment has almost brought me to tears!!! My father and grandfather fought the wars in Israel! Am Yisroel Chai. I LOVE my country also...but I too am a Jew!!!

God bless you too, most richly......i got one lil "problem", which as my heart beats is a Blessing unto Yahweh, Who revealed to me and IN me, that Messiah Yeshua has come and will come again...i hope you dont hold that against me, i CANNOT spurn His Voice...i know you can appreciate that, while you might not agree. i CANNOT spurn His Voice, that said, Am Yisroel Chai, Chaver, Shea

 

[Ben Sunday]

no denial my esteemed Doctor...no no no. Its the Chinese i worry about.They are very clever, the russians,ham-handed,obvious, greedy and stupid....humbly, Shea

I am in agreement with this. A few posts back, Doc was asking about the third party that could be problematic if they entered the fray. In my mind, the biggest risk in every way is Red China, although I will allow for the outside chance that North Korea might jump in anyplace they could. Not nearly as large or global in nature, NK still packs a wallop and could be a player in any larger conflict, attacking anything they could reach such as Japan, our bases on Guam, Alaska, etc.

 

[Shea Grey]

"ATTN. ITS TIME TO READJUST THE DEPENDS. TIME MAY BE SHORT. THE RUSSIANS CHINESE ARE COMING."

Sorry, I don't wear depends. I wear a gunbelt.

and i would be willing to wager there's nothing less than a 44 maggy in that holster....you're more of a man than i am Cappy. i like a pair of Nines, 15 round clips, with Speer gold dots in them...its a neat lil round. you got me laughing, thanks. Shea

 

[Ben Sunday]

"ATTN. ITS TIME TO READJUST THE DEPENDS. TIME MAY BE SHORT. THE RUSSIANS CHINESE ARE COMING."

Sorry, I don't wear depends. I wear a gunbelt.

Same here...

 

[doctor_fungcool]

delete

 

[doctor_fungcool]

Doc, how do you know, absolutely, that russia will retaliate for a strike on Iran? Remember, you agreed that russia is very untrustworthy...so how do you know for a true fact that they will...and you did state it like it was a true fact.

Russia, in point of fact, is being encircled. NATO is playing a game of position on the chessboard. The pawns
are being sacrificed, while the bishops and knights are softening up the enemy's defensive positions. My point?
A cornered rat is a dangerous rat.

Now for your question about retaliation. First off, we'd must define 'retaliation'. There are a great number of retaliation scenarios that more than likely have been drawn up by both sides. The biggest threat, in my opinion, would be cyber warfare on our infrastructure, or our data systems. Also, any disruption of the grid over a large part of CONUS would also be a catastrophe. Other TB2k members may have other scenarios which they may think have a higher priority then the ones I've mentioned. I guess we are really entering the realm of opinion here.

Actually nuclear war, while always possible, is really a lose lose proposition for all sides. WWIII may playout with a scenario that is a total surprise to everyone, including the major combatants. Strange weapon systems may make their appearance as if from 'out of the blue'. This war will have so many facets that many won't understand
what's really happening.

All bets are off, however, if we see third parties try to ignite a world wide conflagration. We have then, the third party scenario, the accidental scenario, an event which was meant to look like a false flag, but wasn't scenario An honest to goodness false flag (by any of the combatants) scenario. Then there's the genuine threat from a whole passel of weirdos...wackos...fringe right wing...fringe left wing. ...rogue intelligence assets....operators with ptsd ect.ect.ect

The point is, nobody can really say what's going to happen except this............it's going to be a very interesting thing to behold.

 

[Housecarl]

Well after what I have seen done to Libya, Afghanistan, and Iraq I am glad to see someone come in and put a stop to the destruction that is being carried out. Afghanistan used to be a safe country to hike through that was full of friendly poor people. Now it is a hell hole. Libya was developing its agriculture water supply. Now it is back in the stone age. Could go on but the point is as a country most in the US don't seem to care less about other races. You use technology you have to destroy not assist other countries these days. You used to come into countries and assist with technology once. In those days you were loved. Now you are hated.

Will this war be stopped? Meaning World War Three! I very much doubt it, We will see the start of it before the year is out. There will be no winners in the coming war except Satan. There will be rejoicing after the next World War but it will be short lived. According to the bible God has to intervene before man totally wipes himself out. My own opinion is that this coming war will be short lived but will bring in the start of the seven year tribulation period talked of in the bible.

Tribulation - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster ...

Related to TRIBULATION
Synonyms: affliction, agony, anguish, excruciation, hurt, misery, pain, rack, strait(s), torment, torture, travail, distress, woe

Definition of TRIBULATION. : distress or suffering resulting from oppression or
persecution; also : a trying experience <the trials and tribulations of starting a
new ...
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tribulation

Well put China Connection. Considering the facts on the ground, your analysis is probably as spot on as those of everyone else.

Your point regarding a 7 year period of tribulation after the likely dominoes effect conflict would unfold is IMHO spot on.

 

[Caplock50]

Shea, my girlfriend is a .357 magnum western-styled revolver. That's my Maggie I'm holding in my avatar. And we've 'stepped into the street', twice...so far. The other guys had autos...yet they tucked tail and ran. I was practicing up for my concealled carry license..40 paces from my target...yet was easily putting all 6 rounds inside an 8 inch circle. 1 pace is about 30 inches so 40 paces equals about 100 feet.

Younger, and before my nerve damage, I could hold my hand out in front of me with a styrofoam cup on it. I would yank my hand out from under the cup, draw and shoot it before it could hit the ground. I gave up the fast drawing though when I met a man who did that same 'draw' using real glass shot glasses... I knew I'd 'met my match' and lost. Heh, but even nowadays, give me a few extra seconds and I can still 'drive tacks'.

God bless.

 

[Housecarl]

Russia, in point of fact, is being encircled. NATO is playing a game of position on the chessboard. The pawns
are being sacrificed, while the bishops and knights are softening up the enemy's defensive positions. My point?
A cornered rat is a dangerous rat.

Now for your question about retaliation. First off, we'd must define 'retaliation'. There are a great number of retaliation scenarios that more than likely have been drawn up by both sides. The biggest threat, in my opinion, would be cyber warfare on our infrastructure, or our data systems. Also, any disruption of the grid over a large part of CONUS would also be a catastrophe. Other TB2k members may have other scenarios which they may think have a higher priority then the ones I've mentioned. I guess we are really entering the realm of opinion here.

Actually nuclear war, while always possible, is really a lose lose proposition for all sides. WWIII may playout with a scenario that is a total surprise to everyone, including the major combatants. Strange weapon systems may make their appearance as if from 'out of the blue'. This war will have so many facets that many won't understand
what's really happening.

All bets are off, however, if we see third parties try to ignite a world wide conflagration. We have then, the third party scenario, the accidental scenario, an event which was meant to look like a false flag, but wasn't scenario An honest to goodness false flag (by any of the combatants) scenario. Then there's the genuine threat from a whole passel of weirdos...wackos...fringe right wing...fringe left wing. ...rogue intelligence assets....operators with ptsd ect.ect.ect

The point is, nobody can really say what's going to happen except this............it's going to be a very interesting thing to behold.

While the US/NATO is in the view of Russia encircling them, the Germans at the same time are reconnecting with the Russians in the same manner they had under Bismark and during the Weimar period. With the dynamics within the EU at the moment, power blocs within that organization (while it still exists) are going to be the precursor of what comes after it falls apart.

ETA: Well put Shea Grey regarding the Yom Kippur War and the current situation.

 

[Shea Grey]

Russia, in point of fact, is being encircled. NATO is playing a game of position on the chessboard. The pawns
are being sacrificed, while the bishops and knights are softening up the enemy's defensive positions. My point?
A cornered rat is a dangerous rat.

yes, they are being encircled..i've always thought this was unwise and unhelpful, but i'm not NCA, and you speak truth about the cornered rat. We'll never really KNOW what when on, after the wall fell, OR what interfacing occurred after 9/11. i always felt that Putin was a very sharp, serious man NOT to be regarded lightly, and thats NOT a appeaser statement. this is a man with gravitas, a heavyweight. Too many times we underestimate our 'adversaries' and overestimate our 'allies'...classic war gaming error.

Now for your question about retaliation. First off, we'd must define 'retaliation'. There are a great number of retaliation scenarios that more than likely have been drawn up by both sides. The biggest threat, in my opinion, would be cyber warfare on our infrastructure, or our data systems. Also, any disruption of the grid over a large part of CONUS would also be a catastrophe. Other TB2k members may have other scenarios which they may think have a higher priority then the ones I've mentioned. I guess we are really entering the realm of opinion here.

ANY grid disruption, infrastructure, data systems....just even down to taking out ATMS, and POS scanners in grocery stores/big box stores, millions dead....its our weakest point, i agree wholeheartedly with you, i cannot overstate how TRULY vulnerable we are on this account, and it enrages me....but i learned a long time ago, any maverick mind within NCA circles is marginalized, taken out...clock punchers, the safe ones, the ones willing to cook up intel to please the boss, they rule the roost. THATS THE TRAGEDY.

Actually nuclear war, while always possible, is really a lose lose proposition for all sides. WWIII may playout with a scenario that is a total surprise to everyone, including the major combatants. Strange weapon systems may make their appearance as if from 'out of the blue'. This war will have so many facets that many won't understand what's exactly happening.

i'm sure you heard of "Able Archer"...that scared a LOT of people, including the Gipper, who eased off, when he got the after action reports on that CF, here for the folks that dont know about "Able Archer" (try you tubing it too)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Able_Archer_83

All bets are off, however, if we see third parties try to ignite a world wide conflagration. We have then, the third party scenario, the accidental scenario, an event which was meant to look like a false flag, but wasn't scenario An honest to goodness false flag (by any of the combatants) scenario. Then there's the genuine threat from a whole passel of weirdos...wackos...fringe right wing...fringe left wing. ...rogue intelligence assets....operators with ptsd ect.ect.ect

The point is, nobody can really say what's going to happen except this............it's going to be a very interesting thing to behold...
Of course as they say, Sow the Wind, Reap the Whirlwind

yes sir, grim prognosis indeed....who says there is not value in mild sedatives? Shea

 

[Shea Grey]

Shea, my girlfriend is a .357 magnum western-styled revolver. That's my Maggie I'm holding in my avatar. And we've 'stepped into the street', twice...so far. The other guys had autos...yet they tucked tail and ran. I was practicing up for my concealled carry license..40 paces from my target...yet was easily putting all 6 rounds inside an 8 inch circle. 1 pace is about 30 inches so 40 paces equals about 100 feet.

Younger, and before my nerve damage, I could hold my hand out in front of me with a styrofoam cup on it. I would yank my hand out from under the cup, draw and shoot it before it could hit the ground. I gave up the fast drawing though when I met a man who did that same 'draw' using real glass shot glasses... I knew I'd 'met my match' and lost. Heh, but even nowadays, give me a few extra seconds and I can still 'drive tacks'.

God bless.

God bless you too.....you and my brother, he's nearby, 15 miles south, him and his Maggie...oh he rides me like a donkey, making fun of me and my 'city boy guns'....but he just likes to ride me for sport anyway, been that way for decades, but he's the only one knows where i keep the 'spare keys'.

thats some good shooting you do. 40 paces? eight inch circle...mighty good. me? all i got is muscle memory, moved up here 9 months ago, and i wanna lay low, plus i gotta keep my powder dry....got a lot, but i need more. i figure when the shtf, or grid down, i'll combine some OJT with that muscle memory and cold clean conscience, and i might pull thru. Shea

 

[rmomaha]

I may be totally off base here, but the Russian leadership is under a lot of pressure at home and that pressure could cause them to do things that would border on insanity.

 

[Caplock50]

Shea, with my nerve damage, I ain't even got 'muscle memory' any more. All I got is God and a 'No surrender; no retreat' attitude. I ain't let no haints run me off yet and I ain't a'gonna, either. This is my home. I was borned here. I was raised here. I have lived all my life here...and here I'll make my stand, to live or die. The only reason I'll kneel is to get into the good '3 point shooting position'...never for a collar, never for chains.

My prayer for you and the rest of the other 'like-mindeds'...

"May the Good Lord grant you a steady hand, a keen eye,...and the wisdom to use them wisely". Amen.

"Live long and prosper!"

God bless.

 

[blueridge]

Thank you my friend. Tis unfortunate how most Americans (even members here and at TOL) are still in denial. Sad, very sad.

Yup.

Russia going to WWIII battle stations over Iran would be like the USA going to WWIII battle stations over Taiwan - simply NOT going to happen...but the tough talk will continue.

 

[optimistic pessimist]

I may be totally off base here, but the Russian leadership is under a lot of pressure at home and that pressure could cause them to do things that would border on insanity.

I think your correct. Putin in particular. I think Medvedev wants peace, but ultimately Putin is the one calling the shots. There is still a lot of the old regime left in Russia, and unfortunately many still active that are very very evil. There are also many good people in Russia, but all in all I can only hope enough are in power to try and counter the bad. In many ways, Russia and the US are very similar, and it is a shame we cannot become allies....unfortunately, American culture and Russian culture, including styles of communication couldn't be more opposite, and it isn't hard to piss each other off, especially given our past history.

Russia WILL do what it needs to do to protect its own resources, stability, and country. I still say this is tied in with their concern over the Missle defense system plans....and if their oil is threatened, and Europe becomes more unstable with the financial situation they will grow more uneasy, and maybe even do something proactive....

Not sure they will just go tossing out bombs at us though...will be smaller and more centered around the region where the biggest issue is. I could see a strategic invasion of a country in Europe before they just pull out the big guns and use them on the US.

 

[SarahLynn]

Doc, i'm telling you, this will be a completely Israeli operation. THEY HAVE to do it, they are a 'one bomb' nation.....and if the world thinks Israel cant do it....wait and watch. i can promise you, NO ONE in Israeli military leadership WANTS this, but for over sixty F###ing years, we just want a chance to live, exist, a tiny little nation, every single day surrounded, outnumbered by hundreds of millions of people that want our blood....the only nation who has to justify their existence, day after day after day...5 million people, tiny and surrounded, and now THIS?

in 1973, Golda KNEW they were going to attack, but she also knew Israel couldnt do another pre-emptive attack like the one six years prior coz the Russians would come unglued, so she had the IDF take the blow,they barely held the line, only when she put 13 F-4 Phantoms on the ready tarmac, loaded with nukes, phoned Dick Nixon and told him, 'we need resupply NOW, or i will unleash absolute destruction upon my enemies', did that greasy used car salesman of a president consent to empty NATO stocks and resupply Israel....she didnt ask for troops, the boys, bloodied and battered, they handled it, all they needed were more bullets, more tanks, more arty shells. they didnt ask for any American boys...they just asked for the chance to defend themselves and in a week, Arik Sharon, punched thru the Egyptian lines, crossed the Suez, and came up behind the egyptian 3rd Army, and surrounded them in the Sinai, making it a huge prisoner of war camp that was only relieved after the russians started stomping and screaming. Israel BROKE the syrians who had made deep armored thrusts into the Jezreel Valley...one young IDF tank commander had SEVEN tanks shot out from under him, he just kept going from tank to tank, wounded, exhausted, but he didnt GIVE. Israel could have driven to both cairo and damascus...the road to damascus just LAY open, like a ten dollar whore, and Israel could have ruined both those capitals, but they didnt......the arabs? those cruel MF'ers?....if they had the chance they would have leveled Tel Aviv, they would hang kids and slit open women and old ladies...these are some barbarous MF'ers, they TAKE JOY in killing their own brood, sunni kills shia, shia kills sunni..;....we'd had to deal with these people for THREE millenia...and now this.

no, Israel cannot take this blow...the iranians made an explicit nuclear threat. Israel doesnt need the US to participate in the attack, just some ressupply, a lil intel, cover the flanks, maybe militarily, undoubtably in the UN...but its going to go down like this, little guys squirts a can of wd40 in the eyes of the big guy, blinds him, kicks his nuts up into his throat, drives a dagger into his heart, and then cuts his head off....96 hours, thats how long it will last.

nobody was around to save us when hitler was murdering us.......those days are gone. we're no longer sheep destined for slaughter, weak and compliant...no, ....no no no, its a new world now, Jews with nukes, so get your seat belts on, and Doc, i say this SO respectfully to you and everyone here, i know lil Barry hates Bibi, hates Israel....fine, i am NO chickenhawk, i will take my US passport, grab my son, call the nearest Israeli consulate, claim 'right of return', check my 'swords' on board the next El Al flight, and i am gone. and that would break my heart, coz i love this country, America....but i am a Jew. Shea

And this Christian, her family and her "Zionist supporting church" will say never again with you. We give tangible support in ways I can't say publicly, and will continue.
Praying for the peace of Jerusalem.
Sarah

 

[Housecarl]

I think your correct. Putin in particular. I think Medvedev wants peace, but ultimately Putin is the one calling the shots. There is still a lot of the old regime left in Russia, and unfortunately many still active that are very very evil. There are also many good people in Russia, but all in all I can only hope enough are in power to try and counter the bad. In many ways, Russia and the US are very similar, and it is a shame we cannot become allies....unfortunately, American culture and Russian culture, including styles of communication couldn't be more opposite, and it isn't hard to piss each other off, especially given our past history.

Russia WILL do what it needs to do to protect its own resources, stability, and country. I still say this is tied in with their concern over the Missle defense system plans....and if their oil is threatened, and Europe becomes more unstable with the financial situation they will grow more uneasy, and maybe even do something proactive....

Not sure they will just go tossing out bombs at us though...will be smaller and more centered around the region where the biggest issue is. I could see a strategic invasion of a country in Europe before they just pull out the big guns and use them on the US.

It would be even easier for them to do that to Iran. Go in initially with forces as a back up to the current bunch, then when in place pull a Czech/Kabul Spring on them. I they feel they need stability on their flank that bad, that would give it to them along with access to the Gulf and there wouldn't be a thing the U.S. could do about it.

 

[Shea Grey]

Shea, with my nerve damage, I ain't even got 'muscle memory' any more. All I got is God and a 'No surrender; no retreat' attitude. I ain't let no haints run me off yet and I ain't a'gonna, either. This is my home. I was borned here. I was raised here. I have lived all my life here...and here I'll make my stand, to live or die. The only reason I'll kneel is to get into the good '3 point shooting position'...never for a collar, never for chains.

My prayer for you and the rest of the other 'like-mindeds'...

"May the Good Lord grant you a steady hand, a keen eye,...and the wisdom to use them wisely". Amen.

"Live long and prosper!"

God bless.

amen......Cappy call me nuts, but as i was reading your post, God the Holy Ghost told me, 'no shall hand or weapon shall harm this son of mine"...amen.

 

[doctor_fungcool]

-.././.-../-/.

 

[Caplock50]

Shea, I'm sure many will scoff at this but I *know* God's hand is protecting me. I've see it in real life action. A few years ago a very large and complex storm system was over my area. Every few minutes there was a new report of a tornado on the ground here. One that I followed in particular said one was 5 minutes away and heading directly at me. I stood outside on my front porch listening for that freight train everyone talks about, but never heard it. What I saw was my mailbox go sailing off down the road, and a few other items sailing around. but, on my front porch, there was barely a breeze stirring and very little rain. Later I learned that a church just about 2 football fields distant was damaged and had a security door ripped out of the wall...and further away an oil rig was smashed to the ground. Why...or rather...Who caused it to weaken and veer away from me? And I can prove this 'weather phenomenon' real easily. The next time severe weather is forecast for my area, I can give you my area code so you can watch it live on weather radar. Whatever bad is coming at me will either split and go around me or it will weaken and die before it gets to me.

Living as right as I can and praising God pays...big time.

 

[Michiana MaJo]

Are some of you forgetting that this country is virtually bankrupt? We have to borrow 40 cents of every dollar we spend....and most of that is from China. China even provides the uniforms for our military! Why do we want to be beholden to Communist China to pay for our wars?

And, how are we supposed to fight the war in Afghanistan and add on a new conflict?

We really aren't even out of Iraq, tho the govt. makes us think it is. How many of you realize that we built and maintain the largest embassy in the world, right in Iraq? We're not leaving that country!

I would take Russia seriously.....if they stepped into a war that we were involved in, I think you can expect the war to come over here, as well. Do you folks who are itching so much for a war with Iran really want it, if it means this country could be attacked?

 

[colonel holman]

Russians know that bluff and buster are effective against our WH leaders.
They CANT believe that taking on US or Israeli military forces directly will get them anywhere favorable. What I am confused about is Russia would greatly benefit from removal of an oil exporting competitor like Iran; helps expand their energy customer base. Plus a nuke from Iran could eventually be exported to Chechin rebel forces.

 

[Desert Fox]

I believe all those who are searching for answers to the questions "Why are we in Afghanistan and why don't we get out " may find the reasons in this thread.......Iran is between Iraq and a hard place..

 

[energy_wave]

I believe all those who are searching for answers to the questions "Why are we in Afghanistan and why don't we get out " may find the reasons in this thread.......Iran is between Iraq and a hard place..

The US has built military bases all over the Middle East, including Turkmenistan next door. Just for this war on Iran.

When I read this...Russia: Attack on Tehran is Attack on Moscow!!!

Hope they all understand, an attack on Israel is an attack on America!!!



Iran Studying U.S. Letter on Hormuz, May Respond, IRNA Says


http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...s-letter-on-hormuz-may-respond-irna-says.html

 

[momof23goats]

JMO but I think we should pull every single cent of foreign aid to everyone, use the money to reinvest in our military and energy production. Suck it up for five years and go without whatever we can't manufacture here. We need to face the fact that we have bought zero loyalty and security by providing aid, so it stops now.

Then we tell countries like Saudi Arabia to eat their sand and drink their oil, we tell Japan, thanks but no thanks, we're buying American, and we tell China to shove it. If anyone looks sideways we give them a little pinch.

We tell the bad guys exactly what we will do if they cross a line. Iran makes a bomb? We take out every reactor. Syria starts sniffing around Israel, buh-bye. African pirate comes too close to one of our recreational yachts? Say good bye to your village.

I'm done with being the good guys while the rest of the world craps on us. Let's just live up to everyone else's expectations and we'll all be happy.

RD

^ this!

Also, PLEASE elect someone to lead your country with some backbone and stature. No one is afraid of the US right now. I shudder to think how the world will look in 4 more years if this continues.

We need someone like Bibi leading the US. That would scare the the bear back into it's den.

It's like......Dads asleep and the kids are running amuck. The kids are going to be totally out of control soon. Once the kids are out of control....... it's going to take a long time to quiet them down again.

this is true, we have a pansy in the white house now. we need to get rid of him and get our honor back.
he caved to russia, wow, what a wimp. russia and putin can't be trusted in the least.

 

[Rescuedog]

Hope they all understand, an attack on Israel is an attack on America!!!

Maybe at one point this was true but I don't believe that our government is a friend of Israel. Our president is too busy trying to convince the rest of the world that he has some kind of "big vision" and respects the religious and cultural differences that exist. Unfortunately in doing so he forgets that sometimes a bad guy is just a bad guy regardless of their religion or culture, and sometimes the good guys have to get rid of them.

I'm not saying we should pull off an all out offensive on Iran, I'm just saying we shouldn't make it so easy for them to believe we won't.

I hate our president, I hate the entitled masses who will keep him in office, and I wish there was one man or woman who could cut through the self serving political bullshit and speak some common sense. As long as 50% of our society is getting stuff for free we are sunk, we are quickly moving into a time when we will have entire generations who do not know what it means to earn something.

RD

 

[Caplock50]

Michiana MaJo, if you owed a billion dollars to a man and he either dies or disappears...how much do you now owe him? Now apply that to the world and acertain country who has be spending the last 30 years training and building their military to fight us. That is the main goal for this U.S.admin...either he's turning us all over to them to be their slaves to pay our debts or...


Edited to add:

Taking out Iran, their major oil supplier, is a 'first step'...