[POLL] The Draft: A Very REAL Possibility...

[NumberOneSon]

Okay, being that I'm 21, it's more than likely that if the draft were reinstituted, I would get sent overseas rather quickly. I am scared to death of this fact.

Having said this, what do you think?
(a) The draft would be worth reinstating.
(b) The draft is a bunch of sh*t and Bush can go f**k himself.
(c) Let's all move to Canada.
(d) May I die before that happens.

Please be honest, and please give the reason behind your choice.

Thank-you.
-Dan

 

[brokenwings]

I believe there is no way we can win this war in Iraq and go start more wars with Iran and possibly Korea without a draft!! Read Bush'slips and remember 'NO DRAFT"!! It will go down in history as his daddy's "NO NEW TAXES"!! That's exactly what we will get!

 

[fairbanksb]

How about, you're misinformed and spouting Democratic spin. I don't know how many times this has to be addressed. Two Democrats are the ones that sponsored bills to reinstate the draft. Not the President or the Republicans. The likely hood is no greater or less be it Kerry or Bush who were elected.

 

[Annmarie]

NumberOne - I have a son that just turned 18. I have a daughter that is studying to be a nurse and is 22. Right now, I am crying for all of you. This is what happens when we let greed rule our lives. You young people will be fighting for someone else's greediness. You will be fighting for oil and control of oil producing countries. We all brought it on ourselves, however. When THINGS become more important than people, the result is death and devastation.

 

[phoenix7of7]

Some one needs to tell 'numberoneson' that the election is over and that his side lost. He can stop beating that dead horse that was dead the moment it was even raised by the two DEMOCRATS who's only intent was to scare KIDS like him.

There will be NO draft!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sheesh!

 

[SouthernGal]

There is not a doubt in my mind that Bush will reinstate the draft in 2005. I've been saying this for almost a year now.

I think we're already seeing the start of this by the "backdoor draft" of not letting service people go when their time is up and by recalling people who have supposedly served their full time in the military and have even been out of it for years.

I hope I'm wrong but that's how I see it.

 

[ejagno]

Pure speculation and no facts to back this up. No one worries more about this than myself, a mother of 3 draft age sons................my only 3 children; but I will not buy into this fear factor with no proof or facts.

 

[Lone Eagle Woman]

Dan, my heart so much goes out to you and all those that are young with
so much of your life still in front of you. In my personal opinion, YES a Draft
is coming and that is only the beginning. How about an economic fallout
like once has never seen, an American Police State with no Freedom!

But the draft will only be the beginning, which in my mind would not be the
least surprised if it started up right around the corner so so so to speak.
But then watch out, then there be the Thermonuclear World War III and
there will only be a few survivors and it will be us the Two Leggeds that
will become the Endangered Species. All that we know of our society both
the good and the bad will be gone Forever. And those that are left will
return to a Hunter-Gatherer existance in the few areas of the Mother Earth
which will not be ruined and destroyed by the Global Nuclear War and it's
aftermath. Some prophecies though speak of a possibility of ALL LIFE
being wiped out and the Earth returns to a state of how it was before Life
Existed because of the Whitemans Greeds. So Sad!

But I don't need a prophecy to see what is coming. It is soooo apparent
to me. Have hoped for the best but it doesn't look good and my heart
goes out to you who are soooo young. My two cents worth!

Creator Bless!

 

[Freeholdfarm]

I think that sometimes our worst enemies are our own imaginations.

"NumberOne - I have a son that just turned 18. I have a daughter that is studying to be a nurse and is 22. Right now, I am crying for all of you. This is what happens when we let greed rule our lives. You young people will be fighting for someone else's greediness. You will be fighting for oil and control of oil producing countries. We all brought it on ourselves, however. When THINGS become more important than people, the result is death and devastation.
Today 08:58 AM "

Annmarie, there is more to all this than greed. Yes, I'm sure the big corporations are making a mint -- they seem to manage that no matter what happens. But that wasn't the reason for the war in Iraq. If we *hadn't* gone in there, you would be wishing we had, not because of WMD (which I'm sure Saddam had, but dispersed out of the country before the invasion), but because they were set to destroy our economy. As you are undoubtedly aware, our economy is a house of cards. It would only take a puff of wind to blow it all down right now -- and, inevitably, it will come down someday. Just better later rather than sooner, in most people's eyes (there might be long-term benefits to 'sooner', but most people aren't willing to suffer for their grandchildren's sakes). That is what the invasion of Iraq was really about, keeping our economy from totally crumbling. I'm not really optimistic that Bush will be able to hold it together for the next four years, as there are so many little puffs of wind blowing, but at least I give him credit for trying.

Kathleen

 

[Ravekid]

Okay, being that I'm 21, it's more than likely that if the draft were reinstituted.....Having said this, what do you think?

(b) The draft is a bunch of sh*t and Bush can go f**k himself.
(c) Let's all move to Canada.

Almost all 'wars' are nothing more than power trips for the elite. For centuries, those in power have attacked other human beings with their people. As the sheep get somewhat smarter, more and more will not take being a slave anymore. I do not fear a draft. I think most of the elite understand the problems that would cause. That being said, if we don't pull out of Iraq soon....more and more stop orders are going to be passed. More and more folks are not going to want to re-enlist.

 

[freebyrd]

like sheep to slaughter, cannon fodder, meat grinder, pick your metaphore its coming
freebyrd

 

[Ravekid]

If we *hadn't* gone in there, you would be wishing we had, not because of WMD (which I'm sure Saddam had, but dispersed out of the country before the invasion), but because they were set to destroy our economy. As you are undoubtedly aware, our economy is a house of cards. It would only take a puff of wind to blow it all down right now -- and, inevitably, it will come down someday. Just better later rather than sooner, in most people's eyes

That is 'later rather than sooner' in older people's eyes. The 50+ generation seems to want to keep things the same. They don't want to think about anything bad coming our way. Most of this is due to their age: They want to enjoy grandkids and retirement just like their parents are now. The problem is that our country could easily have fixed our economy without going to a damn war. For starters, a cut back in work should have been discussed with an emphasis on one parent working families. It does not have to be that women need to stay at home....but this current and common situation of dumping our kids off to strangers so we can have the 2,500 sq. ft home, the SUV and mini-van, costly vacations, the ability to give your kids everything (and spoil them as a result), is what has destroyed our country. In now time, than in the last 50 years...have humans basically abandoned their young like they do now. This may or may not have a net positive or negative effect. If it passes greed onto the kids (meaning they might end up working more than their parents), watch out.

The president should come out and state that maybe a lose of jobs isn't a bad thing. He should tell the major corporations of this country that maybe the U.S. is taking a step back. That cars should be cheaper, that home prices are just too high, etc. etc. etc.. We could shrink our economy and still survive. It could help fix the problems with our kids and allow us the ability to explode when the world economy is ready for that. Right now it's just too much.

 

[sleepymarie]

I believe there is no way we can win this war in Iraq and go start more wars with Iran and possibly Korea without a draft!! Read Bush'slips and remember 'NO DRAFT"!! It will go down in history as his daddy's "NO NEW TAXES"!! That's exactly what we will get!

I have been saying something similat to this for months. I am a nurse and I do worry about if not being drafted being here when other nurses have been.

 

[Warthog]

Okay, being that I'm 21, it's more than likely that if the draft were reinstituted, I would get sent overseas rather quickly. I am scared to death of this fact.

Having said this, what do you think?
(a) The draft would be worth reinstating.
(b) The draft is a bunch of sh*t and Bush can go f**k himself.
(c) Let's all move to Canada.
(d) May I die before that happens.

Please be honest, and please give the reason behind your choice.

Thank-you.
-Dan

When they give you your question/answer paper asking if you would fire on U.S. citizens during gun confiscations, say yes and you'll get to stay in the states. That way you can really help us out. Thats how we have to play the game. Cheat.

 

[milkydoo]

How about, you're misinformed and spouting Democratic spin. I don't know how many times this has to be addressed. Two Democrats are the ones that sponsored bills to reinstate the draft. Not the President or the Republicans. The likely hood is no greater or less be it Kerry or Bush who were elected.

Now that we've got that out of the way......... the threat of a draft is still very real. The 'no draft'ers' seem to be basing their fantasies on the idea that America would never take any real hits. Sounds like neocon spin to me.

 

[Pineapple]

Here we go again.

And Milky, dont you think if we had a war at home and needed people to defend our homeland that people would step up to the plate ? I think if we had a situation where we needed men and women to defend our country, there wouldnt need to be a draft. People would volunteer

 

[calliope]

The reason most people said they voted for Bush was moral values. I doubt whether most Americans would consider lying a moral value. Bush said there would be no draft. It makes no difference whether the draft bills were, are, or will be introduced by the Democrats. Bush is President with a Republican Congress and the support of the majority of the American people. And as far as I know the Presidential veto has not yet been made unconstitutional. If there is a draft, Bush lied.

That said, I think the odds are there will be a draft and I don't see many options. The Canada option has been effectively closed. If there is a draft and you choose to try to avoid it, I guess the best advice I can give is to mentally prepare yourself for being stigmatized. Draft dodgers will not be held in high esteem--at least not Joe Citizen draft dodgers.

 

[ainitfunny]

DUPE

 

[ainitfunny]

YES THE DRAFT WILL BE COMING SOON.
Who's gonna stop it??
It cannot be argued that it is not needed with the "us against the world" belligerance our leaders are displaying.

IF YOU SUPPORT BUSH'S RIGHT TO "PRE-EMPTIVLY" ATTACK ANY NATION HE PLEASES THEN YOU FORFEIT YOUR RIGHT TO SIT BACK IN SAFETY, EXEMPT FROM DANGER TO ROOT FOR "OUR TROOPS" LIKE A FOOTBALL TEAM WHILE THEY ALONE BEAR THE "DUTY" TO SERVE, SUFFER, BLEED AND DIE IN OBEDIENCE TO WHATEVER PERIL THEIR NATION POLITICAL LEADERS CHOOSE TO PUT THEM IN.

Volunteer armies should BY LAW be restricted to PEACETIME. WAR SHOULD ALWAYS BE ACCOMPANIED BY DRAFT OF ALL MEN PHYSICALLY ABLE TO SERVE-NO EXEMPTIONS FOR SCHOOL OR ALTERNATIVE SERVICE.

 

[Scott Mayland]

I dont think Bush said it would not be a draft. I believe he said " I do not WANT to have the draft. If things happen to turn out and one is needed he did not lie on this one. His butt is covered on this one.

 

[milkydoo]

Here we go again.

And Milky, dont you think if we had a war at home and needed people to defend our homeland that people would step up to the plate ? I think if we had a situation where we needed men and women to defend our country, there wouldnt need to be a draft. People would volunteer

I'm sure some would, depending on the situation and how soupy the propaganda is. The question is, how many and how soon?

I also firmly believe that a draft would be less about filling in the gaps and more about control of the populas, and stepping in the direction of a police state, which Bush is clearly doing.

The bottom line is that Bush backers would back a Bush draft 110% so I really don't know what all the Dem bashing is about.

 

[calliope]

Sorry Scott--from the second Presidential debate:

GIBSON: We're going to move on, Mr. President, with a question for you. And it comes from Daniel Farley.
Mr. Farley?
FARLEY: Mr. President, since we continue to police the world, how do you intend to maintain our military presence without reinstituting a draft?
BUSH: Yes, that's a great question. Thanks.
I hear there's rumors on the Internets (sic) that we're going to have a draft. We're not going to have a draft, period. The all- volunteer army works. It works particularly when we pay our troops well. It works when we make sure they've got housing, like we have done in the last military budgets.

 

[Ought Six]

...

 

[milkydoo]

The all- volunteer army works. It works particularly when we pay our troops well.

When did we start paying them well? And what's the definition of well? Just out of food stamp range?

I guess I'll take his word for it like a good lil' patriot.

Now, if we can just get a few more socks and flak jackets over to Iraq we'll be in good shape.

 

[RC]

There was another similar thread that got moved to the Politics area, so I'll use this opportunity to repeat the questions I asked there. For some strange reason, nobody answered these questions.

I have a question for those who have brought us the information about the upcoming draft.

How many new conscripts will there be, and what exactly are they going to be doing? Since you already know there's going to be a draft, you can certainly specify a number of draftees. At worst, you will be underestimating.

Please be as specific as possible. For example, we need 1.9 million draftees. Of those, 14,000 are needed for peeling potatoes, 17,642 are needed to clean the latrines, 82,741 are needed to direct traffic in downtown Pyongyang, etc., etc.

Since you already know there's going to be a draft, you must know the specific numbers that are needed and where they are needed. If we need a million new soldiers, then we probably need a draft. But if we only need 17 new soldiers, then we probably don't need to draft them. So your knowing that we need a draft implies that you know how many people are going to be drafted.

And if you don't even know how many people we need, and what we need them for, then how can you possibly know that we need a draft? To put it another way, put up or shut up.

 

[RC]

Da**. Threads about the upcoming draft always seem to die when I ask those questions.

Maybe I need a stronger brand of deodorant or something.

 

[Oilpatch Hand]

Okay, being that I'm 21, it's more than likely that if the draft were reinstituted, I would get sent overseas rather quickly. I am scared to death of this fact.

-Dan

You would be well advised to take this matter up with Rep. Charles Rangel (D-NY) who, operating under some crazy calculus understood only by himself, introduced a draft reinstatement bill in the last session of Congress. The bill came out of committee and was referred to the floor for a vote, where, laughably, Charlie Rangel was forced to vote against his own silly proposal.

He wasn't able to save himself from utter and complete humiliation by virtue of his own efforts alone, of course. Every Republican in the House also voted against Charlie's draft bill, thereby saving Charlie's sizable rear end from ignominy.

He's the man you need to talk to. Ask him: "Charlie, why do you Democrats want to reinstate the draft?"

You deserve an honest answer from him, but I doubt you'll get it.

 

[RC]

Rep. Rangel was probably at the secret briefing where they told him how many potato peelers the army would need. When you call him, please ask how many.

 

[Toto]

Like RC. I was posting on another thread on the main page, when it was moved to the "All Things Political" page.


Since it seems to be relevant to this discussion, I will repost it here, with apologies to those of you who have already seen it.

Rafter wrote:

Maybe you need to do some research as who really wrote the bill to reinstate the draft.

Actually, the "dem spew" bills you refer to Rafter WERE voted down soundly by congress in the last session, as those who put them forward KNEW they would be. They were put forward by them to raise attention to the perceived injustice of a system that is volunteers primarily from the lower income classes, while the sons and daughters of the wealthier, including legislators, have many other matters to pursue, like our Vice President.

But, there IS one more draft bill still hovering around, this one put forward by Republicans.

It is currently still in committee, and could be brought forward at the last minute, should the occasion arise:

On the 20th of December 2001, Representative Nick Smith of Michigan, for himself and Mr. Curt Weldon of Pennsylvania, introduced a bill onto the floor of the House of Representatives. HR-3598, also known as (Short title as introduced) “Universal Military Training Service Act of 2001” was immediately co-sponsored by Rep. Roscoe G. Bartlett of Maryland co-sponsored this legislation on the 6th of February 2002. The bills stated title/purpose (Official title as introduced) was;

"A bill to require the induction into the Armed Forces of young men registered under the Military Selective Service Act, and to authorize young women to volunteer, to receive basic military training and education for a period of up to one year."

The bills summary (as introduced) reads as follows:

Universal Military Training and Service Act of 2001:

(1) Makes it the obligation of male citizens and residents between 18 and 22 to receive basic military training and education as a member of the armed forces unless otherwise exempt under this Act.
(2) Permits female citizens and residents between such ages to volunteer for enlistment in the armed forces, with acceptance at the discretion of the Secretary of the military department concerned.
(3) Limits the period of training to between six months and a year.
(4) Permits transfers after basic training of such conscripts/volunteers to national and community service programs to finish the term of service.
(5) Provides educational services and Montgomery GI benefits to persons upon completion of their national service.

(6) Uses the existing Selective Service System and local boards for induction.
(7) Sets forth criteria for deferments, postponements, and exemptions, including high school, hardship, disability, and health.

(8) Entitles inductees to request a particular service branch.
(9) Excludes conscientious objectors from combatant training, but otherwise requires them to take basic training before a permitted transfer to a national service program.

No debate: The bill was not acted on when introduced on the floor of the house of Representatives. No call for votes was made. The sponsors knew that this legislation would never pass an open vote on the floor. Instead, the bill was immediately referred to the House Armed Service Committee. This action was necessary to ensure that it would bypass any critical debate and be passed swiftly by a group of like minded individuals.

Just thought you all should know, since this Republican sponsored draft bill seems to have passed under the radar screen of everyone who continues to cite only the democratically sponsored bills that were defeated by congress.


Imagine that!

 

[RC]

But, there IS one more draft bill still hovering around, this one put forward by Republicans.

It is currently still in committee, and could be brought forward at the last minute, should the occasion arise:



Quote:
On the 20th of December 2001, Representative Nick Smith of Michigan, for himself and Mr. Curt Weldon of Pennsylvania, introduced a bill onto the floor of the House of Representatives. HR-3598, also known as (Short title as introduced) “Universal Military Training Service Act of 2001” was immediately co-sponsored by Rep. Roscoe G. Bartlett of Maryland co-sponsored this legislation on the 6th of February 2002.


According to http://thomas.loc.gov, HR 3598 is the "Manufacturing Technology Competitiveness Act of 2003." I didn't read every last word, but it doesn't seem to have anything whatsoever to do with any draft. I guess that's why it managed to keep under the radar screen so well.

 

[Oilpatch Hand]

According to http://thomas.loc.gov, HR 3598 is the "Manufacturing Technology Competitiveness Act of 2003." I didn't read every last word, but it doesn't seem to have anything whatsoever to do with any draft. I guess that's why it managed to keep under the radar screen so well.

Yes, that would probably do it. A draft bill (that nearly no one else has even heard about) cleverly disguised as legislation concerning manufacturing technology competitiveness. Those rascals.

Well played, by the way.

 

[RC]

To read the part about the draft, you need to use your secret Skull and Bones (r) decoder ring I guess.

 

[Carlos]

The draft is a good idea. While abuse by the influential is unavoidable that abuse is pretty well spread across the political spectrum. Monied conservatives vs monied liberals and the country has plenty of both. Like it cause it snaggs guys like me. Not part of the richly deferred but a lot like a cross section of the country who'd have never joined. That's improtant. If not a pure military draft then the option of service in another way. This way of life just ain't free. Take a trip to Europe and bother to look around. If you live in a 2br, 1ba apartment here built after '50 you live better that most of them. It ain't free, it just seems like it and trying to hire it out the why is exactly how otherwise healthy cultures collapse.

 

[Usually Curious]

I could deal with a draft, as long as they give conscientous objectors GUARANTEED non-combatant jobs. I know some of you think that it's wrong to be noncombatant but the fact is there are and will always be people whose conscience dictates that they CANNOT kill, even in war.

Unless you are ready to start Civil War II, you may as well get used to the idea of a draft - it is definitely a possibility. Face it, we have little to no control over the direction of our nation. If you think we do you're kidding yourself.

 

[Toto]

Sigh!

Guess I have to do it all for you folks, eh?

A bill put forward in December 2001 is in the 107th Congress, not the 108th.

Change your search parameters in Thomas, and you will find it:

H.R.3598
Title: To require the induction into the Armed Forces of young men registered under the Military Selective Service Act, and to authorize young women to volunteer, to receive basic military training and education for a period of up to one year.
Sponsor: Rep Smith, Nick [MI-7] (introduced 12/20/2001) Cosponsors (1)
Latest Major Action: 1/28/2002 Referred to House subcommittee. Status: Referred to the Subcommittee on Military Personnel.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
STATUS: (color indicates Senate actions)
12/20/2001:
Referred to the House Committee on Armed Services.
1/28/2002:
Executive Comment Requested from DOD.
1/28/2002:
Referred to the Subcommittee on Military Personnel.

Got it??? Any questions????

I hope you realize how restrained I am about gloating!!

 

[Amazed]

And just how do you think they could do a draft? I have a friend who's son just got through boot camp. They have two "graduations" a week with 2000 - 2500 recruits in each. This is in South Carolina. The resources are stretched to the max. The trainers are exhausted.

Bases have been shut down all over the country. It would take years to get things back to where they could effectively process a huge influx of draftees. By the time they got to the point they could accomodate all of them, Bush will be long gone.

Do some research. Gather some facts. Don't scare yourself to death just going by feelings.

 

[Toto]

Oh, yeah, I forgot to put it in bold, like you did:

H.R.3598
Title: To require the induction into the Armed Forces of young men registered under the Military Selective Service Act, and to authorize young women to volunteer, to receive basic military training and education for a period of up to one year.
Sponsor: Rep Smith, Nick [MI-7] (introduced 12/20/2001) Cosponsors (1)
Latest Major Action: 1/28/2002 Referred to House subcommittee. Status: Referred to the Subcommittee on Military Personnel.

Makes it SO much more noticeable, doesn't it?


So sorry, numberoneson, you are not out of danger yet!

Just like my 5 nephews and 3 nieces, all of "draftable age".

We'll figure something out.

 

[Achilles]

There's not going to be a draft folks. This isn't WWII, we are not storming beaches and trying to win a war of attrition. We have the best equipped and best trained armed force in the history of man. Every one of those soldiers in Iraq volunteered to be there. They went through all the training and passed.

Now some wiseass decides that we are going to have a draft. Drafting people into today's military has a couple of rather fatal flaws;

- Lead time from conscription to arriving on the battlefield is too long. Basic training plus AIT plus whatever the hell else the Army decides you need. That is a year of training to go sit in a foxhole. Mucho $$$ too.

- Soldiers are not going to want to serve with draftees. Hell I wouldn't want to have someone that really didn't want to be there covering my back. Much less operate in an urban area with someone who just finished training and can barely spell MOUT. I doubt generals are going to want conscripts under their command either.

But they can handle support and logistics freeing up those Active Duty soldiers for fighting? Those soldiers that work support positions are no more combat ready than a draftee.

The whole idea is rediculous. The US does not have the type of military that lends itself to conscription.

 

[RC]

Sigh!

Guess I have to do it all for you folks, eh?

A bill put forward in December 2001 is in the 107th Congress, not the 108th.

No, thank you. You don't have to do it all for us. The bill is not "still hovering around" in committee. It died in committee.

"Bills not enacted -- signed into law -- during the two-year span of a Congress die when that Congress comes to an end, and must be reintroduced in a new Congress to be considered again."

http://thomas.loc.gov/bss/legstage.html

So what's the HR number in the current congress for this bill that is "still hovering around"?

 

[Toto]

RC
This republican bill IS "still hovering around," precisely because it was never put forward for a vote, unlike the Democratic bills which will never again see the light of day, having been soundly defeated. I only bring this information to your attention precisely because so many people are under the false impression that there were only two bills, both sponsored by democrats. Sorry if getting this information seems to rock your boat.

At a future time, OF COURSE, if they decide to put this bill forward for a vote, it will have to be given a new number at that point (and may be amended at that point too!). However, all of this can happen VERY quickly, since people have seen the bill, and are somewhat familiar with it.