WAR North Korea Main Thread - All things Korea April 27th - May 4th

Warm Wisconsin

Easy as 3.141592653589..
Believe me when I say what I've concluded is the last thing I want to see happen, but with what information I've been able to find open source it's the only one I can come to.

I agree for the most part with your assessment. However, I think there is a small possibility the Kim Dumb I'll will decide to negotiate, since Trump has opened the door to "no regime change".

That being said, I think it will be as hard to negotiate as the first Korean ceasefire many years ago.
 

Possible Impact

TB Fanatic
I agree for the most part with your assessment. However, I think there is a small possibility the Kim Dumb I'll will decide to negotiate, since Trump has opened the door to "no regime change".

That being said, I think it will be as hard to negotiate as the first Korean ceasefire many years ago.

zerohedge‏ @zerohedge 10m
North Korea Threatens China With "Grave Consequences" Over "Betrayal"
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-03/north-korea-threatens-china-grave-consequences

^^^ He dun just blowed up his last bridge. He be toast...
 
zerohedge‏ @zerohedge 10m
North Korea Threatens China With "Grave Consequences" Over "Betrayal"
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-03/north-korea-threatens-china-grave-consequences

^^^ He dun just blowed up his last bridge. He be toast...

North Korea Threatens China With "Grave Consequences" Over "Betrayal"


by Tyler Durden
May 3, 2017 2:45 PM

Earlier this morning we reported that according to Korea Times, China had allegedly sent North Korea what amount to a final warning over its military provocations. The rumor cited the May issue of Hong Kong monthly news outlet Dong Xiang. It said a Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs junior minister invited Park Myung-ho, an official of North Korea, for a meeting. China's Foreign Minister Wang Yi attended the meeting and asked his junior to read aloud the warning to the North over the nuclear test. The memorandum mentioned that China will condemn strongly, pull back on all economic cooperation and even blockade North Korea if it conducted the test.

It didn't take Korea long to respond...





In an almost unprecedented criticism of China on Wednesday, North Korea's state media said Chinese state media commentaries calling for tougher sanctions over Pyongyang's nuclear program were undermining relations with Beijing and worsening tensions. As Reuters reports, a commentary carried by the official Korean Central News Agency (KCNA) slammed China’s "insincerity and betrayal," referring to recent commentaries in China's People's Daily and Global Times newspapers, which it said were "widely known as media speaking for the official stand of the Chinese party and government."

The response was terse and aggressive...

"A string of absurd and reckless remarks are now heard from China every day only to render the present bad situation tenser."

"China had better ponder over the grave consequences to be entailed by its reckless act of chopping down the pillar of the DPRK-China relations,"

The KCNA commentary charged that the Chinese articles had attempted to shift the blame to Pyongyang for "deteriorated relations" between China and North Korea and U.S. deployment of strategic assets to the region. It also accused China of "hyping up" damage caused by North Korean nuclear tests to China's three northeastern provinces.

Chinese state media calls for North Korea to dismantle its nuclear program were "a wanton violation of the independent and legitimate rights, dignity and supreme interests" of North Korea and constituted "an undisguised threat to an honest-minded neighboring country which has a long history and tradition of friendship," it said.

North Korea's "media" responded by explaining that the nuclear program was needed for the "existence and development" of the country and "can never be changed nor shaken."

The bottom line is that the window for threading a diplomatic solution, brokered by China, is closing rapidly...

"The DPRK will never beg for the maintenance of friendship with China."
 

Heliobas Disciple

TB Fanatic
who knows if this report is accurate, but worth adding to the mix. just came out.

China issued 'last warning' to N. Korea over nukes: Chinese social media
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2017/05/103_228717.html
By Eom Da-sol

China has sent a final warning to North Korea over its military provocations, according to unconfirmed rumors spreading widely on Chinese social media Tuesday.

Chinese news outlets have previously said Beijing could turn its back on Pyongyang if the latter conducted a sixth nuclear test. But the rumor that China has given North Korea a final warning has drawn particular interest from Weibo users.

The rumor cited the May issue of Hong Kong monthly news outlet Dong Xiang. It said a Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs junior minister invited Park Myung-ho, an official of North Korea, for a meeting.

China's Foreign Minister Wang Yi attended the meeting and asked his junior to read aloud the warning to the North over the nuclear test. The memorandum mentioned that China will condemn strongly, pull back on all economic cooperation and even blockade North Korea if it conducted the test.

A Chinese netizen said: "Maybe the bond between the nations is not that strong as we thought. North Korea is completely surrounded by enemies now."

The Chinese government did not provide any explanation or correction to the rumor.

And in response:


North Korea Threatens China With "Grave Consequences" Over "Betrayal"
by Tyler Durden
May 3, 2017 2:45 PM

Earlier this morning we reported that according to Korea Times, China had allegedly sent North Korea what amount to a final warning over its military provocations. The rumor cited the May issue of Hong Kong monthly news outlet Dong Xiang. It said a Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs junior minister invited Park Myung-ho, an official of North Korea, for a meeting. China's Foreign Minister Wang Yi attended the meeting and asked his junior to read aloud the warning to the North over the nuclear test. The memorandum mentioned that China will condemn strongly, pull back on all economic cooperation and even blockade North Korea if it conducted the test.

It didn't take Korea long to respond...

The response was terse and aggressive...

"A string of absurd and reckless remarks are now heard from China every day only to render the present bad situation tenser."

"China had better ponder over the grave consequences to be entailed by its reckless act of chopping down the pillar of the DPRK-China relations,"

The KCNA commentary charged that the Chinese articles had attempted to shift the blame to Pyongyang for "deteriorated relations" between China and North Korea and U.S. deployment of strategic assets to the region. It also accused China of "hyping up" damage caused by North Korean nuclear tests to China's three northeastern provinces.

Chinese state media calls for North Korea to dismantle its nuclear program were "a wanton violation of the independent and legitimate rights, dignity and supreme interests" of North Korea and constituted "an undisguised threat to an honest-minded neighboring country which has a long history and tradition of friendship," it said.

North Korea's "media" responded by explaining that the nuclear program was needed for the "existence and development" of the country and "can never be changed nor shaken."

The bottom line is that the window for threading a diplomatic solution, brokered by China, is closing rapidly...

"The DPRK will never beg for the maintenance of friendship with China."

More on this:

https://www.aol.com/article/news/20...a-nuclear-action-grave-consequences/22067632/
(fair use applies)

North Korean media issues rare criticism of China over 'reckless' nuclear actions, warns of 'grave consequences'
David Brunnstrom
May 3rd 2017 11:27AM

North Korea's state media published a rare criticism of China on Wednesday, saying Chinese state media commentaries calling for tougher sanctions over Pyongyang's nuclear program were undermining relations with Beijing and worsening tensions.

A commentary carried by the official Korean Central News Agency (KCNA) referred to recent commentaries in China's People's Daily and Global Times newspapers, which it said were "widely known as media speaking for the official stand of the Chinese party and government."

"A string of absurd and reckless remarks are now heard from China every day only to render the present bad situation tenser," it said.

"China had better ponder over the grave consequences to be entailed by its reckless act of chopping down the pillar of the DPRK-China relations," the commentary said, referring to North Korea by the acronym for its official name, the Democratic People's Republic of Korea.

China is North Korea's neighbor and only major ally and the United States has pressed it to use its influence to rein in North Korea's nuclear and missile programs. Diplomats say Washington and Beijing are negotiating a possible stronger U.N. Security Council response - such as new sanctions - to North Korea's repeated ballistic missile launches.

The KCNA commentary charged that the Chinese articles had attempted to shift the blame to Pyongyang for "deteriorated relations" between China and North Korea and U.S. deployment of strategic assets to the region.

It also accused China of "hyping up" damage caused by North Korean nuclear tests to China's three northeastern provinces.

Chinese state media calls for North Korea to dismantle its nuclear program were "a wanton violation of the independent and legitimate rights, dignity and supreme interests" of North Korea and constituted "an undisguised threat to an honest-minded neighboring country which has a long history and tradition of friendship," it said.

The KCNA commentary said calls by "some ignorant politicians and media persons" in China for stricter sanctions on North Korea and not ruling out military intervention if it refused to abandon its nuclear program, were "based on big-power chauvinism."

It said North Korea's nuclear program was needed for the "existence and development" of the country and "can never be changed nor shaken."

"The DPRK will never beg for the maintenance of friendship with China," the commentary said.

Earlier on Wednesday, China called on all parties in the Korean standoff to stay calm and "stop irritating each other" a day after North Korea said the United States was pushing the region to the brink of nuclear war.
 

LoupGarou

Ancient Fuzzball
I believe that we are about to see what "Suicide by Cop" looks like on a national scale...

Unfortunately, there will be a lot of innocent bystanders also hit by the "bullets" flying in the "Hood" when it happens.

T-10 and counting?

Loup
 

Heliobas Disciple

TB Fanatic
Kim's been busy threatening his neighbors this morning:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/north-korea-vows-put-military-10345543
(fair use applies)

North Korea vows to put US military bases in Japan "under radioactive clouds" and threatens another Hiroshima
A state newspaper in Pyongyang made the chilling threat: "Japan knows better than others how terrible the nuclear disaster is"

By Joshua Taylor
10:29, 3 MAY 2017 Updated 17:43, 3 MAY 2017

North Korea has vowed to put US military bases in Japan "under radioactive clouds" if war breaks out.

Kim Jong-un 's regime issued the chilling warning and reminded Japan of the horrors of Hiroshima and Nagasaki during World War II.

The threat comes as Japan debates whether to change its anti-war constitution as fears of a conflict between the US and North Korea increase.

The warning of a nuclear strike against the US bases in Japan appeared in the North Korean state newspaper Rodong Sinmun.

It said: "In case of a nuclear war on the peninsula, Japan - that houses logistic bases, launching bases and sortie bases of the US forces - will be put under radioactive clouds before any country.

"If Japan is truly concerned about its interests, it has to make due efforts for the peaceful settlement of the Korean peninsula issue.

"As the first country in the world that suffered A-bomb disaster, Japan knows better than others how terrible the nuclear disaster is.

"The Japanese authorities should behave with discretion, clearly understanding that it is Japan which will be affected most once a war breaks out on the peninsula."

[...]
 

minkykat

Komplainy Kat
You ever notice that NK's script writers are sounding more and more like it's being ghost written by ME terrorists? It's all full of the sound and the flury. All that's missing is the odd "allah willing".
 

Heliobas Disciple

TB Fanatic
For links see article source.....
Posted for fair use.....
https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/exporting-north-koreas-nukes/

Exporting North Korea’s nukes
2 May 2017|Chris Douglas

[...]

If the Pong Su, a North Korean freighter could drop a large quantity of narcotics off the Australian coast near a major city, a fanatical regime facing extinction at the hands of a deeply hated enemy wouldn’t think twice about sending a container bearing a nuclear device into the US or an allied country and detonating it. Alternatively, similar to the use of Japanese midget submarines to attack Sydney harbour during World War 2, North Korea could sail a nuclear bomb laden diesel electric submarine into an American or Australian port and explode the weapon.

[...]

With over 17 million shipping containers in circulation, weaponised containers would be hard to detect. The large number means that thousands could be deployed as decoys, increasing the chances that the few carrying nuclear weapons are successfully delivered and exploded.

Asymmetric warfare.

Faced with an enemy of overwhelming power it would be prudent to have a "shipping container" or two close to the backyard where his children played.

Or a crude nuke to be detonated inside a "suicide" submarine. It would not even have to get very close to cause thousands of deaths from radioactivity, if the winds were right. And it could generate a tsunami or even set off the primed earthquake faults all along the west coast.


This worry aligns with the threats made in 2009 that I posted a few pages up. Click on the arrow next to my name and it will lead back to the post itself, which I am excerpting to get to the relevant part.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Korea/KF12Dg01.html
(fair use applies)

Nuclear war is Kim Jong-il's game plan
By Kim Myong Chol
Jun 12, 2009

[...]

Four types of hydrogen bomb raids

The game plan for nuclear war specifies four types of thermonuclear assault: (1) the bombing of operating nuclear power stations; (2) detonations of a hydrogen bombs in seas off the US, Japan and South Korea; (3) detonations of H-bombs in space far above their heartlands; and (4) thermonuclear attacks on their urban centers.

[...]

The detonation of sea-borne or undersea H-bombs planted on the three countries' continental shelves will trigger nuclear tsunamis with devastating consequences.

A 2006 RAND study of a ship-based 10-kiloton nuclear blast on the Port of Long Beach had some harrowing conclusions:
  • "Within the first 72 hours, the attack would devastate a vast portion of the Los Angeles metropolitan area. Because ground-burst explosions generate particularly large amounts of highly radioactive debris, fallout from the blast would cause much of the destruction. In some of the most dramatic possible outcomes:
  • Sixty thousand people might die instantly from the blast itself or quickly thereafter from radiation poisoning.
  • One hundred and fifty thousand more might be exposed to hazardous levels of radioactive water and sediment from the port, requiring emergency medical treatment.
  • The blast and subsequent fires might completely destroy the entire infrastructure and all ships in the Port of Long Beach and the adjoining Port of Los Angeles.
  • Six million people might try to evacuate the Los Angeles region.
  • Two to three million people might need relocation because fallout will have contaminated a 500-square-kilometer area.
  • Gasoline supplies might run critically short across the entire region because of the loss of Long Beach's refineries - responsible for one-third of the gas west of the Rocky Mountains.
[...]



Now read this article I happened to see on Daily Mail. Very similar threat being made by an ex-Russian military official. I don't know if it's possible, plausible or what the damages would actually be from this type of attack, but seeing it mentioned 3 different times in the last few days is disconcerting.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4462928/Putin-planting-deep-sea-mole-nukes-near-US.html
(fair use applies)

Putin is planting deep-sea 'mole nukes' near the US capable of causing a TSUNAMI, Russian military expert claims
By Chris Pleasance for MailOnline
Published: 10:57 EDT, 1 May 2017 | Updated: 16:27 EDT, 1 May 2017

  • Viktor Baranetz, former colonel, revealed ways Russia tries to outsmart the US
  • He alleged that Russia is sinking 'sleeper' nukes off the coast of America
  • In the event of war the bombs will detonate and trigger a tsunami, he claimed
  • Baranetz also said Putin has nukes that cannot be tracked using their trajectory

A former Russian colonel and defense ministry spokesman claims Putin is burying 'sleeper' nukes off the coast of America.

Viktor Baranetz said that in the event of a war, the bombs would be detonated and cause a tsunami that would wipe out much of the coastal US.

Baranetz admitted there is no way for Russia to outspend America on defense, so the military is forced to go to extreme lengths to make sure they come out on top.
Viktor Baranetz, a former Russian colonel and defense ministry spokesman, claimed Russia has planted sleeper nukes off the coast of America that could be used to trigger a tsunami

Viktor Baranetz, a former Russian colonel and defense ministry spokesman, claimed Russia has planted sleeper nukes off the coast of America that could be used to trigger a tsunami

Other moves designed to outfox the US are nuclear missiles which can be steered in the air, meaning their trajectory cannot be calculated, he claimed.

Baranetz made the astonishing claims in an interview with Russian paper Komsomolskaya Pravda which was translated by MEMRI.

He said Russia is focused on developing an 'asymmetrical response' to America, ensuring both countries would be destroyed in the event of an attack by either.

He said: 'Our asymmetrical response is nuclear warheads that can modify their course and height so that no computer can calculate their trajectory.

'Or, for example, the Americans are deploying their tanks, airplanes and special forces battalions along the Russian border.

'We are quietly "seeding" the U.S. shoreline with nuclear "mole" missiles. They dig themselves in and "sleep" until they are given the command...

'Oh, it seems I've said too much,' he interrupted himself by saying, before adding: 'I should hold my tongue.'

A Russian government spokesman dismissed Baranetz's claims, describing them as 'strange' and adding that the report should 'not be taken seriously.'
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
Ah yes, the UK Daily Mail; the UK's answer to the National Enquirer - which doesn't mean they never have real stories; just like the Enquirer sometimes they get a breaking story right (Bill and Monica) but they also print a lot of "interesting" stuff that makes good headlines but needs to be taken with caution in terms of reality.

They also do a really good job with picture essays during natural or manmade disasters; but when it comes to things like the article above I'd have to wait and see...
 

Heliobas Disciple

TB Fanatic
Ah yes, the UK Daily Mail; the UK's answer to the National Enquirer - which doesn't mean they never have real stories; just like the Enquirer sometimes they get a breaking story right (Bill and Monica) but they also print a lot of "interesting" stuff that makes good headlines but needs to be taken with caution in terms of reality.

They also do a really good job with picture essays during natural or manmade disasters; but when it comes to things like the article above I'd have to wait and see...

Agree. I don't know if the science even works, this may be the same type of scary doom campfire story like HEMP. Sounds scary but not very possible unless under very exact circumstances that very few can achieve.

It was more of a gut/woo reaction after seeing the same type of assymetrical warfare mechanism mentioned three times from three completely different sources; the first article was a threat (more like wishful thinking) made by Kim Jong Il's spokesman in 2009, HC's article speculating on it, and then out of the blue seeing this Russian military person bringing up the same off-shore use of a nuke scenario.

Do I think this will happen? No, not really. More likely material for a good disaster movie. Like HEMP won't happen either - if they want to attack our electricity they'll do it with cyberwarfare and physically attacking our grids. But that countries (NK, Russia) are THINKING of using it, RAND is studying it, etc, - that's attention worthy if nothing else.

HD
 

Possible Impact

TB Fanatic
[FONT=Verdana,Arial]
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Ordinary Girl
Great, now Jon Bon Jovi is singing in my head.



[/FONT]
At least now you'll be happy to die, right? ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X57PAe99Pu0
Bon Jovi - Burning Bridges (Lyric Video)

^^^ another good one for today's action in North Korea... :D



"Burning Bridges"

Sayonara
Adios, auf wiedersehen, farewell,
Adieu, good night, guten abend,
Here's one last song you can sell
Lets call it burning bridges
It's a sing along as well
Ciao, adieu, good nacht, guten abend
Play it for your friends in hell

Someone shut the lights off
Turn the page
The stories I could write
I've seen a million faces
And I've lived a couple lives
Here's our history for all to see
The smiles and all the scars
First the rising then the falling
Call this chapter shooting stars
That must sound good from where you are

Sayonara
Adios, auf wiedersehen, farewell,
Adieu, good night, guten abend,
Here's one last song you can sell
Let's call it burning bridges
It's a sing along as well
Ciao, adieu, good nacht, guten abend
Play it for your friends in hell

Check the box
Mark this day
There's nothing more to say
After 30 years of loyalty
They let you dig the grave
Now maybe you could learn to sing
Or even strum along
I'll give you half the publishing
You're why I wrote this song
Everybody sing along

Sayonara
Adios, auf wiedersehen, farewell,
Adieu, good night, guten abend,
Here's one last song you can sell
Lets call it burning bridges
It's a sing along as well
Hope my money and my masters
Buy a front row seat in hell
Ciao, adieu, good nacht, guten abend
Play this for your friends in st. tropez
 

Possible Impact

TB Fanatic
:dot5: also oddly apropos


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_PQvX5dUnE
Bon Jovi - We Don’t Run



"We Don't Run"

Take a look around you, yeah, the sky is falling
Sinners say your prayers this train is off the tracks
Nothing is forever when tomorrow's calling
Dancing with the devil to get one day back

I'm not afraid of burning bridges
'Cause I know they're gonna light my way
Like a Phoenix, from the ashes
Welcome to the future it's a new day

We don't run
I'm standing my ground
We don't run
And we don't back down
There's fire in the sky
There's thunder on the mountains
Bless each tear and this dirt I was born in, (run)
We don't run
We don't run

Take me to the banks of your muddy water
Where the flesh and blood and the spirit meet
Only takes your touch for me to find salvation
You're the only reason that I still believe

I'm not afraid of burning bridges
'Cause I know they're gonna light my way
Like a Phoenix, from the ashes
Welcome to the future it's a new day

We don't run
I'm standing my ground
We don't run
And we don't back down
There's fire in the sky
There's thunder on the mountain
Bless each tear and this dirt I was born in, (run)
We don't run
We don't run

We don't run
I'm standing my ground
We don't run
And we don't back down
There's fire in the sky
There's thunder on the mountain
Bless each tear and this dirt I was born in, (run)
We don't run
We don't run
 

curlysue

Tomorrow will come
NK has been called on their bluff. Paper Tiger. Russia is the Only wildcard left. 3-D chest being played. No ransom paid this time to NK.
 

The Mountain

Here since the beginning
_______________
This worry aligns with the threats made in 2009 that I posted a few pages up. Click on the arrow next to my name and it will lead back to the post itself, which I am excerpting to get to the relevant part.





Now read this article I happened to see on Daily Mail. Very similar threat being made by an ex-Russian military official. I don't know if it's possible, plausible or what the damages would actually be from this type of attack, but seeing it mentioned 3 different times in the last few days is disconcerting.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4462928/Putin-planting-deep-sea-mole-nukes-near-US.html
(fair use applies)

Putin is planting deep-sea 'mole nukes' near the US capable of causing a TSUNAMI, Russian military expert claims
By Chris Pleasance for MailOnline
Published: 10:57 EDT, 1 May 2017 | Updated: 16:27 EDT, 1 May 2017

  • Viktor Baranetz, former colonel, revealed ways Russia tries to outsmart the US
  • He alleged that Russia is sinking 'sleeper' nukes off the coast of America
  • In the event of war the bombs will detonate and trigger a tsunami, he claimed
  • Baranetz also said Putin has nukes that cannot be tracked using their trajectory

A former Russian colonel and defense ministry spokesman claims Putin is burying 'sleeper' nukes off the coast of America.

Viktor Baranetz said that in the event of a war, the bombs would be detonated and cause a tsunami that would wipe out much of the coastal US.

Baranetz admitted there is no way for Russia to outspend America on defense, so the military is forced to go to extreme lengths to make sure they come out on top.
Viktor Baranetz, a former Russian colonel and defense ministry spokesman, claimed Russia has planted sleeper nukes off the coast of America that could be used to trigger a tsunami

Viktor Baranetz, a former Russian colonel and defense ministry spokesman, claimed Russia has planted sleeper nukes off the coast of America that could be used to trigger a tsunami

Other moves designed to outfox the US are nuclear missiles which can be steered in the air, meaning their trajectory cannot be calculated, he claimed.

Baranetz made the astonishing claims in an interview with Russian paper Komsomolskaya Pravda which was translated by MEMRI.

He said Russia is focused on developing an 'asymmetrical response' to America, ensuring both countries would be destroyed in the event of an attack by either.

He said: 'Our asymmetrical response is nuclear warheads that can modify their course and height so that no computer can calculate their trajectory.

'Or, for example, the Americans are deploying their tanks, airplanes and special forces battalions along the Russian border.

'We are quietly "seeding" the U.S. shoreline with nuclear "mole" missiles. They dig themselves in and "sleep" until they are given the command...

'Oh, it seems I've said too much,' he interrupted himself by saying, before adding: 'I should hold my tongue.'

A Russian government spokesman dismissed Baranetz's claims, describing them as 'strange' and adding that the report should 'not be taken seriously.'

Ah yes, the UK Daily Mail; the UK's answer to the National Enquirer - which doesn't mean they never have real stories; just like the Enquirer sometimes they get a breaking story right (Bill and Monica) but they also print a lot of "interesting" stuff that makes good headlines but needs to be taken with caution in terms of reality.

They also do a really good job with picture essays during natural or manmade disasters; but when it comes to things like the article above I'd have to wait and see...

Agree. I don't know if the science even works, this may be the same type of scary doom campfire story like HEMP. Sounds scary but not very possible unless under very exact circumstances that very few can achieve.

It was more of a gut/woo reaction after seeing the same type of assymetrical warfare mechanism mentioned three times from three completely different sources; the first article was a threat (more like wishful thinking) made by Kim Jong Il's spokesman in 2009, HC's article speculating on it, and then out of the blue seeing this Russian military person bringing up the same off-shore use of a nuke scenario.

Do I think this will happen? No, not really. More likely material for a good disaster movie. Like HEMP won't happen either - if they want to attack our electricity they'll do it with cyberwarfare and physically attacking our grids. But that countries (NK, Russia) are THINKING of using it, RAND is studying it, etc, - that's attention worthy if nothing else.

HD

FWIW, this is the same thing that Kalika's folks were getting through their connections to India Intel sources, who in turn were allegedly hearing it from their Russian colleagues. That was about 2-3 weeks ago; I posted about it at the time.
 

Ordinary Girl

Veteran Member
FWIW, this is the same thing that Kalika's folks were getting through their connections to India Intel sources, who in turn were allegedly hearing it from their Russian colleagues. That was about 2-3 weeks ago; I posted about it at the time.

Wouldn't we know if they had done that? That seems like something a satellite would notice or something.
 

Heliobas Disciple

TB Fanatic
FWIW, this is the same thing that Kalika's folks were getting through their connections to India Intel sources, who in turn were allegedly hearing it from their Russian colleagues. That was about 2-3 weeks ago; I posted about it at the time.

I remember your thread, but didn't remember your 2nd comment on it. Looks like it was the same scenario. Food for thought for sure. :(

http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/show...ssian-Intel-Community-of-plan-to-nuke-mine-US

http://www.timebomb2000.com/vb/show...of-plan-to-nuke-mine-US&p=6434587#post6434587

FWIW and just to clarify, the nukes that were being discussed were not, so far as I have been able to determine, so-called "suitcase" nukes. It's much more likely they are simpler devices hidden in shipping containers or smuggled ashore by boat, possibly in pieces.

My thinking is that this either confirms, references, or is possibly a distorted rumor echo of, the stories a few months ago about nuclear torpedoes/mines buried on US beaches. These aren't pinpoint strike weapons, they're intended for general destruction and the generation of panic and chaos. Certainly some will be positioned to create actual damage i.e. near the stock market or military installations or major transportation nexuses etc.
 
Last edited:

MinnesotaSmith

Membership Revoked
MinnesotaSmith, you're a Geologist, IIRC.

What is the probability that a sub-megaton nuke could actually trigger an earthquake, if set off at the surface of the earth? How about if drilled down a couple kilometers (if we have drilling rigs that go that deep...and can be used covertly since we're talking about a damn big hole to drop a big enough bomb into)?

Surface, very little. Subsurface, depends; unless placed pretty adroitly, again not much. In the right place, definitely possible. BTW, lots of rigs go down past 20,000' regularly now. The rig I'm on went almost to 23,000' last well, with plans to repeat on the current one. The deepest one I was ever on went to 37,000', although that includes close to 4,000' of water (was offshore). World record on land is about 40,600', I believe.

Oh, and don't overestimate the wellbore size issue as a huge limitation on potential burial depth. Nuclear weapons have been miniaturized enough that routine wellbore sizes large enough to take them NP go plenty deep for this purpose.
 

bsharp

Veteran Member
Surface, very little. Subsurface, depends; unless placed pretty adroitly, again not much. In the right place, definitely possible. BTW, lots of rigs go down past 20,000' regularly now. The rig I'm on went almost to 23,000' last well, with plans to repeat on the current one. The deepest one I was ever on went to 37,000', although that includes close to 4,000' of water (was offshore). World record on land is about 40,600', I believe.

Oh, and don't overestimate the wellbore size issue as a huge limitation on potential burial depth. Nuclear weapons have been miniaturized enough that routine wellbore sizes large enough to take them NP go plenty deep for this purpose.

If they were buried deep enough to cause the damage, wouldn't there be potential signal issues? How would they be able to send to command to the explosive to detonate? Seems like radio waves or sat signals would have troubles reaching that far underground.
 

Midlander2

Senior Member
Yes, I was thinking similarly. Kim is about to be upstaged and overwhelmed by news of Prince Philip's death. Quite an amazing development, in my opinion.
 

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
Hummm....

For links see article source.....
Posted for fair use.....
http://www.armscontrolwonk.com/archive/1203134/korea-and-the-limits-of-coercive-ambiguity/

KOREA AND THE LIMITS OF COERCIVE AMBIGUITY

by Joshua Pollack | May 2, 2017 | 1 Comment
(With apologies to Alexander George.)

North Korea and the Trump Administration turn out to be a pretty heady mix. That blend has been driving Americans to distraction for weeks, and keeping the natsec Twittersphere continuously busy.

With North Korea in mind, I dashed off a thread on some of the basics of nuclear deterrence and the non-use of nuclear weapons. You can find it here:

https://twitter.com/Joshua_Pollack/...4/korea-and-the-limits-of-coercive-ambiguity/

Joshua H. Pollack @Joshua_Pollack
Here's the Storify of my thread on the basics of nuclear deterrence and North Korea, courtesy of @CherylRofer. https://storify.com/crofer/joshua-p...ign=website&utm_source=email&utm_medium=email
5:36 PM - 30 Apr 2017
19 19 Retweets 19 19 likes

Now I’d like to offer some observations on Washington’s use of ambiguous threats of force to coerce North Korea. Say what you like about the credibility of such threats; Pyongyang finds them strongly objectionable, and is determined to shut them down.

Here’s the thread, curated a bit for what I hope is coherence.

How Not to Moderate North Korean Behavior
The uses and abuses of ambiguous threats.

Just in case you missed it, here's the video and transcript of SecState Tillerson's address to the Security Council on North Korea last Friday. The gist: "We must work together to adopt a new approach and impose increased diplomatic and economic pressures on the North Korean regime.... North Korea must take concrete steps to reduce the threat that its illegal weapons programs pose to the United States and our allies before we can even consider talks."

Welp. Here was the immediate riposte:

Yonhap News Agency @YonhapNews
(LEAD) N. Korea fails in missile test: S. Korean military http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/news/2017/04/29/0200000000AEN20170429001051315.html
2:33 PM - 28 Apr 2017
Photo published for (LEAD) N. Korea fails in missile test: S. Korean military
(LEAD) N. Korea fails in missile test: S. Korean military
North Korea launched a ballistic missile on Saturday, which apparently exploded seconds after liftoff, South Korea's military said.
english.yonhapnews.co.kr
108 108 Retweets 45 45 likes

So, then. What will persuade the North Koreans take those concrete, if as-yet-unspecified, steps? I don't know if anything will. But I have a pretty good idea about what won't help at all: threatening to initiate a war. As the Trump Administration (finally) dispatches a carrier strike group to the vicinity of Korea, that seems like a relevant consideration.

Anna Fifield ✔ @annafifield
U.S. Navy aircraft carrier-led strike group entered Japanese waters close to North Korea this weekend http://buff.ly/2qlmdLm
5:05 AM - 30 Apr 2017
68 68 Retweets 49 49 likes

To be fair to Tillerson, while he nodded to the standard talking point ("all options... must remain on the table"), he did emphasize the defensive nature of armed force.

Unhappily, that reasonable stance is getting drowned out in Washington. The most reliable war drums in town continue to emanate from that pair of bongos, Sen. Lindsey Graham and Sen. John McCain. I've already discussed Graham's egregious Today Show appearance. So let's talk about McCain, who was comparatively mild in calling for war as a last resort:

Joshua H. Pollack @Joshua_Pollack
Re: attacking North Korea. Some thoughts. https://twitter.com/seungminkim/status/858703263079817216
9:06 AM - 30 Apr 2017
20 20 Retweets 17 17 likes

Joshua H. Pollack @Joshua_Pollack
What circumstance would warrant such a drastic choice? Nothing realistic. Certainly not missile or nuclear testing.
9:07 AM - 30 Apr 2017
4 4 Retweets 14 14 likes

Joshua H. Pollack @Joshua_Pollack
It's easy to see this as standard "all-options-on-the-table" talk. Meaningless. But let's be real.
9:09 AM - 30 Apr 2017
2 2 Retweets 7 7 likes

Joshua H. Pollack @Joshua_Pollack
Launching an armed attack on North Korea would be a criminal act. It would invite destruction in South Korea and Japan not seen in decades.
9:10 AM - 30 Apr 2017
12 12 Retweets 21 21 likes

Joshua H. Pollack @Joshua_Pollack
Let's be clear about that. Cognitive dissonance doesn't mix well with nuclear weapons.
9:11 AM - 30 Apr 2017
11 11 Retweets 17 17 likes

Joshua H. Pollack @Joshua_Pollack
Sen. McCain touches on the artillery threat to Seoul, but come on. All together now: North Korea already has the Bomb. Five tests so far!
9:13 AM - 30 Apr 2017
5 5 Retweets 14 14 likes

Joshua H. Pollack @Joshua_Pollack
The time to contemplate the use of force to stop North Korea's nuclear program was a very, very long time ago.
9:14 AM - 30 Apr 2017
14 14 Retweets 26 26 likes

Joshua H. Pollack @Joshua_Pollack
Indeed, that's why North Korea is such a problem. Threats of force are just not realistic. (END)
9:15 AM - 30 Apr 2017
6 6 Retweets 13 13 likes

By comparison, Trump's own remarks, if less than reassuring, followed the familiar logic of "calculated ambiguity," which is to say, a policy of rhetorical flexibility. Some would call it "cheap talk."

Joshua H. Pollack @Joshua_Pollack
There's a history in the US of being noncommittal abt using force: "all options are on the table." Trump's version: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-north-korea-nuclear-latest-war-a7710521.html
1:06 PM - 1 May 2017
Photo published for Donald Trump on whether he could start war with North Korea: 'I don't know. I mean, we'll see'
Donald Trump on whether he could start war with North Korea: 'I don't know. I mean, we'll see'
President Donald Trump has said that he believes China's president has been putting pressure on North Korea as it pursues its missile and nuclear weapons programmes - but when asked about whether...
independent.co.uk

4 4 Retweets 3 3 likes

The North Koreans were not favorably impressed. Here's yesterday's response from the DPRK Foreign Ministry:
1

https://twitter.com/Joshua_Pollack/status/859136207158206466/photo/1

Joshua H. Pollack @Joshua_Pollack
The DPRK Foreign Ministry has announced North Korea's response to the Trump administration's policy. It's about what you'd expect.
1:03 PM - 1 May 2017
28 28 Retweets 11 11 likes

Did you see the key bit? "Now that the U.S. is kicking up the overall racket for sanctions and pressure against the DPRK, pursuant to its new DPRK policy called 'maximum pressure and engagement', the DPRK will speed up at the maximum pace the measure for bolstering its nuclear deterrence."

Got that? "Maximum pressure" will beget the "maximum pace" of nuclear and missile testing.

The lesson I take from this: if you're going to sail a carrier strike group into your enemy's front yard, underscore that it's for demonstrating your commitment to the defense of allies. Don't say that you might, just maybe, kick off a war while you happen to be in the neighborhood.

There are times to keep one's options open. There are also times to commit to a particular approach. All of this is a pretty standard point. Readers of Schelling's Arms and Influence may remember coming across the idea:

1

https://twitter.com/Joshua_Pollack/status/859453106924507138/photo/1

Joshua H. Pollack @Joshua_Pollack
The object of a threat, @Tom_Schelling wrote decades ago, is to give someone a choice. (Arms and Influence, p. 74)
10:02 AM - 2 May 2017
5 5 Retweets 10 10 likes

Joshua H. Pollack @Joshua_Pollack
.@Tom_Schelling Sometimes clarity about one's own intentions is advantageous.
10:04 AM - 2 May 2017
2 2 Retweets 1 1 like

One could argue that ambiguity could be constructive in compelling North Korea to disarm. But observing North Korean behavior over the years indicates the opposite.

Joshua H. Pollack @Joshua_Pollack
We think our ambiguity induces caution. But in North Korea, it means they still haven't fully convinced us that war is off the table.
1:08 PM - 1 May 2017
6 6 Retweets 7 7 likes

Joshua H. Pollack @Joshua_Pollack
If our goal is to induce restraint in North Korean missile and nuclear testing, then our rhetoric is pointing in the wrong direction.
1:08 PM - 1 May 2017
2 2 Retweets 3 3 likes

Joshua H. Pollack @Joshua_Pollack
If we want them to act with restraint, we ought to signal our our willingness to respond with restraint - not insist on flexibility always.
1:17 PM - 1 May 2017
2 2 Retweets 6 6 likes

Joshua H. Pollack @Joshua_Pollack
*our own willingness. (END)
1:19 PM - 1 May 2017
Retweets likes

That's the bottom line: North Korea is determined to achieve the capability to blunt any American military threats. Making threats reinforces their existing view.

Whatever might usefully be done about this problem, hinting at the preemptive use of force ain't it.

--

COMMENTS
Steven Hayden (History)
May 2, 2017 at 9:55 pm
Wonderful article that considers that DPRK expectations shape their behavior. Their expectations are not what US DOD has controlled. Every hostile act or threat merely reinforced their idea that conflict was inevitable. Sanctions inspired them to weaponize as fast as possible. Hostility was not something that could be avoided and therefor had to be embraced.

Reply
 

Housecarl

On TB every waking moment
Hummm....

For links see article source.....
Posted for fair use.....
http://www.businessinsider.com/afp-chinas-military-pact-with-nkorea-looks-shaky-2017-5

'It's a mystery': China's military pact with North Korea looks shaky

AFP
21h 2,778

Korea's founder Kim Il-Sung visited Beijing to sign a mutual defence pact with China in 1961, he was comforted by the military protection promised by his fellow communist neighbors.

But half a century and a few North Korean nuclear tests later, the agreement is beginning to look like a musty Cold War relic that China would rather forget.

Despite their alliance in the 1950 - 1953 Korean War, analysts question whether Beijing would now rush to Pyongyang's defence in a military confrontation with the United States and South Korea.

Chinese leader Mao Zedong once described the neighbors as being as "close as lips and teeth."

For his part, Kim told Mao that signing the Treaty of Friendship, Cooperation and Mutual Assistance "raised our confidence, and we feel safeguarded", according to a memoir of Mao's diplomatic activities published in 2003.

But the two leaders are long dead and China, which is now the world's second largest economy and a pillar of the global order, appears less enthusiastic about protecting its treaty partner in a conflict that estimates suggest could cost hundreds of thousands of lives and lay waste to Seoul.

The current leaders of both nations, Chinese President Xi Jinping and North Korea's Kim Jong-Un, have never even met.

The treaty constitutes "a very important part" of Sino-North Korean ties, professor Maochun Miles Yu at the United States Naval Academy told AFP.

But, he added, it is by no means clear what China is actually prepared to do for the North if push comes to shove: "It's a mystery."

Atomic Threat
North Korea's regular missile launches and the prospect of a possible sixth nuclear test are putting Beijing in a tight spot as it already faces US pressure to slash economic ties to punish Pyongyang.

"It's hard to say how China would assist North Korea militarily in case of war, since North Korea is developing nuclear weapons, an act that might have already breached the treaty between the two nations," retired Chinese naval colonel Li Jie told the daily South China Morning Post last month.

China's nationalistic Global Times newspaper invoked two scenarios, including one in which Beijing would refrain from defending Pyongyang.

"If North Korea continues to carry out severe missile tests, and the United States launches a surgical attack on its facilities, Beijing should impose a diplomatic boycott, but there is no necessity of military intervention," said an op-ed published in the Global Times last month.

But the daily said China "should immediately carry out necessary military intervention" if the US and South Korea launch a ground invasion in the North to overthrow the regime.

While Beijing's commitment to the pact is in question, it remains sensitive to US military movements in the region.

On Tuesday, China demanded that Washington "immediately" suspend the deployment of a missile shield in South Korea hours after officials announced that it was operational.

"We will firmly take necessary measures to uphold our interests," foreign ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said.



'Complicated Situation'


The military pact automatically renews every 20 years, most recently in 2001, meaning it is now valid through 2021.

Last year, Xi and Kim exchanged messages to mark the treaty's 55th anniversary.

The Chinese president wrote that both sides have cooperated in the "spirit" of the treaty and that their "friendship serves as a precious wealth."

The treaty, Kim responded, "has become a firm legal foundation for constantly consolidating the friendly and cooperative relations that were forged in the bloody struggle for independence against imperialism and for socialism."

But in 2013, a Chinese defence ministry spokesman said it would be "unprofessional" to answer a hypothetical question about whether Beijing would militarily back Pyongyang in an attack.

Asked on Tuesday whether China was still committed to the pact's terms, foreign ministry spokesman Geng Shuang said: "The principle of (the treaty) is to promote China–DPRK friendly cooperation in various fields and uphold regional security."

He added: "The current situation on the peninsula is highly complicated, delicate and tense. We urge all sides to stay calm and abstain from any action that may aggravate tensions."

Young-June Chung, an associate professor at Shanghai's Tongji University, said the pact's "diplomatic status is a little bit obscure" as neither side has acknowledged that it is "invalid."

But he added that Beijing "would not sacrifice its relations with the US and South Korea for North Korea."
 

Countrymouse

Country exile in the city
Hummm....

For links see article source.....
Posted for fair use.....
http://www.armscontrolwonk.com/archive/1203134/korea-and-the-limits-of-coercive-ambiguity/

KOREA AND THE LIMITS OF COERCIVE AMBIGUITY

by Joshua Pollack | May 2, 2017 | 1 Comment
(With apologies to Alexander George.)

North Korea and the Trump Administration turn out to be a pretty heady mix. That blend has been driving Americans to distraction for weeks, and keeping the natsec Twittersphere continuously busy.

With North Korea in mind, I dashed off a thread on some of the basics of nuclear deterrence and the non-use of nuclear weapons. You can find it here:

https://twitter.com/Joshua_Pollack/...4/korea-and-the-limits-of-coercive-ambiguity/



Now I’d like to offer some observations on Washington’s use of ambiguous threats of force to coerce North Korea. Say what you like about the credibility of such threats; Pyongyang finds them strongly objectionable, and is determined to shut them down.

Here’s the thread, curated a bit for what I hope is coherence.



So, then. What will persuade the North Koreans take those concrete, if as-yet-unspecified, steps? I don't know if anything will. But I have a pretty good idea about what won't help at all: threatening to initiate a war. As the Trump Administration (finally) dispatches a carrier strike group to the vicinity of Korea, that seems like a relevant consideration.



To be fair to Tillerson, while he nodded to the standard talking point ("all options... must remain on the table"), he did emphasize the defensive nature of armed force.

Unhappily, that reasonable stance is getting drowned out in Washington. The most reliable war drums in town continue to emanate from that pair of bongos, Sen. Lindsey Graham and Sen. John McCain. I've already discussed Graham's egregious Today Show appearance. So let's talk about McCain, who was comparatively mild in calling for war as a last resort:

















By comparison, Trump's own remarks, if less than reassuring, followed the familiar logic of "calculated ambiguity," which is to say, a policy of rhetorical flexibility. Some would call it "cheap talk."



The North Koreans were not favorably impressed. Here's yesterday's response from the DPRK Foreign Ministry:
1

https://twitter.com/Joshua_Pollack/status/859136207158206466/photo/1



Did you see the key bit? "Now that the U.S. is kicking up the overall racket for sanctions and pressure against the DPRK, pursuant to its new DPRK policy called 'maximum pressure and engagement', the DPRK will speed up at the maximum pace the measure for bolstering its nuclear deterrence."

Got that? "Maximum pressure" will beget the "maximum pace" of nuclear and missile testing.

The lesson I take from this: if you're going to sail a carrier strike group into your enemy's front yard, underscore that it's for demonstrating your commitment to the defense of allies. Don't say that you might, just maybe, kick off a war while you happen to be in the neighborhood.

There are times to keep one's options open. There are also times to commit to a particular approach. All of this is a pretty standard point. Readers of Schelling's Arms and Influence may remember coming across the idea:

1

https://twitter.com/Joshua_Pollack/status/859453106924507138/photo/1





One could argue that ambiguity could be constructive in compelling North Korea to disarm. But observing North Korean behavior over the years indicates the opposite.









That's the bottom line: North Korea is determined to achieve the capability to blunt any American military threats. Making threats reinforces their existing view.

Whatever might usefully be done about this problem, hinting at the preemptive use of force ain't it.

--

COMMENTS
Steven Hayden (History)
May 2, 2017 at 9:55 pm
Wonderful article that considers that DPRK expectations shape their behavior. Their expectations are not what US DOD has controlled. Every hostile act or threat merely reinforced their idea that conflict was inevitable. Sanctions inspired them to weaponize as fast as possible. Hostility was not something that could be avoided and therefor had to be embraced.

Reply

the underlying assumption of all of the above is---


"If we just back off and stop SCARING Them so much, then THEY will calm down and stop making nuclear weapons."


Study.

History.


WHO--or WHAT---has been threatening "war" against North Korea since the ill-fated 1970's decision by (traitor) Jimmy Carter to GIVE them the technology to develop "Peaceful" nuclear power"???


Answer---no one, and nothing.


Yet they took that nuclear technology and materials Carter (and later Clinton) gave them, and have spent the last 40 years in frenzied efforts to create a nuclear bomb.

WITHOUT a threat of war against them.

[Note---ALL communist or dictatorial regimes DO this---they whip their people into paranoia against some real OR IMAGINED outside enemy, in order to UNITE them in SUPPORT of their dictatorial overlords due to FEAR of these supposed 'bogeymen' that will attack them, and the only thing standing between them and these 'bogeymen' is their dictator-leader....]


NOW, they HAVE one.


The nations of the world were WARNED.

They were TOLD this is what Korea was doing.

What did THEY do?

Laugh it off, brush it away---"Oh, no, that's ridiculous. They are too backward to develop a bomb. And they're not planning to, anyway--didn't they just last week tell us again that their nuclear program is for peaceful purposes? And even if they DO develop it into bombs, it will be years---YEARS---before they can develop the capability to make them actually WORK, or even to DELIVER them on-target. That's ridiculous!"


No one is laughing any more.


So--the solution is more of the same "ignore it and it'll go away" that GOT us here?


We CAN'T, now.

This madman is SERIOUS.


EVEN. WITHOUT. PROVOCATION.--they BUILT the bombs and delivery systems.

EVEN. WITHOUT. PROVOCATION.--they are LIKELY to actually USE them.



YES, lil Kim IS that MAD.


What we SHOULD have done was BOMB THE HELL out of their production facilities YEARS ago---

but we had gutless administrations who wouldn't act on "rumor."

shoulda, woulda, coulda....

Too late now.....


I wish we COULD put the genie back in the bottle---


But unless lil Kim climbs back in the bottle of his own accord---


Or Russia or China sneak in an assassination crew----


I don't see how we can.



God help us all.
 

TidesofTruth

Veteran Member
According to Dick Cheney in his book Condoleezza Rice's advice to George Bush was to treat NK like they were already compliant with our wishes when we in fact knew that they were not in how we related to them in trade status/sanctions and political interaction and they would then step up and act like they should and become compliant.


Regardless of how smart and educated blacks are they have huge issues with how they understand the world. They believe that nations/peoples will have altruistic intentions (except for the United States)if just given the chance. And at the heart of the matter it is the US that is the problem.

It was a huge misstep that continued on into the Obama Administration
 

Sacajawea

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Tides, it's not just blacks who believe that. Most of the west tend to project their values on the rest of the world - and develop policy that ASSUMES that others think like we do. Big mistake - with Islam, NK, Maduro/Chavez before him... etc.

Our preference for rationality over religous and irrational emotional (read: honor) responses and actions is how Hitler got to be a problem in the first place. NO ONE COULD BE THAT EVIL (or insane)... to a rational mind.

This has been the weak spot for US foreign policy for generations. The rest of the world doesn't WANT to be like us. They aren't going to be bribed with western materialism and toys and entertainment. They want to keep their own identity... and therefore their own motivations, goals and boundaries in dealing with the other countries of the world -- the UN be damned (and I wish they would be).
 

pinkelsteinsmom

Veteran Member
According to Dick Cheney in his book Condoleezza Rice's advice to George Bush was to treat NK like they were already compliant with our wishes when we in fact knew that they were not in how we related to them in trade status/sanctions and political interaction and they would then step up and act like they should and become compliant.


Regardless of how smart and educated blacks are they have huge issues with how they understand the world. They believe that nations/peoples will have altruistic intentions (except for the United States)if just given the chance. And at the heart of the matter it is the US that is the problem.

It was a huge misstep that continued on into the Obama Administration

Misstep indeed. What an ignorant gentle lady, of course they could not deny her position as stupid, she was a god on earth, African.

Whomever coined the phrase "you can't fix stupid" was correct. Seems that same laughable nonsense is why you will be living under sharia law soon now.

The Peter Sellers movie about the gardener that was an idiot who was hoisted to the highest position in the land applies here.
 

Lilbitsnana

On TB every waking moment
This article has updated pics from the 29th (most likely the newest commercial sat images available for that area)


Steve Herman‏Verified account @W7VOA 7m7 minutes ago

Sat imagery of #DPRK Sinpo South Shipyard indicates new activity at missile test stand, according to @38NorthNK. http://38north.org/?p=11458


posted for fair use
http://38north.org/2017/05/sinpo050417/


North Korea’s Sinpo South Shipyard: Activity at the Test Stand



By 38 North
04 May 2017

A 38 North exclusive with analysis by Joseph S. Bermudez Jr.
Commercial satellite imagery of the Sinpo South Shipyard from April 29 indicates new activity at the facility’s missile test stand. This test stand was used during 2014-2016 for launch systems verification, and pop-up and prototype testing of the Pukguksong-1 (KN-11) submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM). Visible are a heavy-lift crane with its stabilizer legs deployed and boom extended out over the test stand’s service tower, and a 13-meter-long flatbed truck adjacent to it on the access road. The image, however, is of insufficient resolution to reach a determination as to whether the activity is related to maintenance, removal of the service tower or preparations for an upcoming test. Up until September 2015 the service tower was routinely disassembled and removed after conducting tests. Since that time, it has remained in place.

Figure 1. A heavy-lift crane and flatbed truck are seen at the test stand at Sinpo.
Image © 2017 DigitalGlobe, Inc. All rights reserved. For media licensing options, please contact thirtyeightnorth@gmail.com.

This activity comes in the wake of the February test launch of a Pukguksong-2 (the land-based version of the Pukguksong-1 SLBM), two tests of the KN-17 medium-range ballistic missile (MRBM) on April 5 and 16, the April acquisition of a second submersible test stand barge, and other recent ballistic missile activities. In conjunction with these developments, the recent activity at the Sinpo test stand likely has a number of implications for the future of the SLBM program and suggests that North Korea is planning to accelerate the program or develop new designs to complement its land-based ballistic missiles.

Elsewhere at the Sinpo South Shipyard
The GORAE-class experimental ballistic missile submarine (SSBA) has been berthed at the same secure boat basin for at least a year. An unidentified object is positioned on the deck immediately near the conning tower. While this may be supplies or equipment, it has been present since August 2016, which would be unusual unless the boat is undergoing prolonged maintenance. A pennant number, likely applied sometime after September 2016, is visible on the left side of the conning tower. The submersible test stand barge has remained berthed forward of the submarine at the same location for the past six months.

Figure 2. The GORAE-class ballistic missile submarine and submersible test barge remain in the secure boat basin.
Image © 2017 DigitalGlobe, Inc. All rights reserved. For media licensing options, please contact thirtyeightnorth@gmail.com.

Within the shipyard, construction of a new building that was begun in late-2016 continues to make slow progress. No other changes of significance are noted among the machine shops, construction halls or parts storage yards.

Figure 3. Construction of a new building at the shipyard continues slowly.
Image © 2017 DigitalGlobe, Inc. All rights reserved. For media licensing options, please contact thirtyeightnorth@gmail.com.

Construction of what appears to be a new construction hall on the southern tip of the Sinpo peninsula, which began in 2012, also continues at a slow pace. The new hall is now approximately 225-meters-long and its associated L-shaped pier is now 200-meters-long. Both structures remain incomplete. The location and construction characteristics of the hall suggest that when it is completed it may be covered with earth to protect it from possible attack. Caissons, used to extend the pier, are visible both on the pier itself and at nearby docks.

Figure 4. Construction of a new construction hall continues.
Image © 2017 DigitalGlobe, Inc. All rights reserved. For media licensing options, please contact thirtyeightnorth@gmail.com.

Figure 5. Construction of a new L-shaped pier continues.
Image © 2017 DigitalGlobe, Inc. All rights reserved. For media licensing options, please contact thirtyeightnorth@gmail.com.
 
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