ENER Nationwide Blackouts Possible

Matt

Veteran Member
Just an FYI... looking like some nasty winter weather moving in today... would be wise to anticipate power outages with these blizzards...

"Ominous satellite images capture major storm bearing down on West Coast that will cause havoc across US - as forecasters predict three feet of snow, tornadoes, blizzards and heavy rain"


 

meandk0610

Veteran Member
I cannot see how electrical infrastructure can be hardened, that is protected from sabotage or actual targeting by an enemy. Substations are likely most vulnerable as there are so many of them. Something as simple as small arms fire can take them out. And the Uke war is proving that a common commercial drone can be fitted with an IED and dropped on target. Walls can be erected to stop small arms fire, but someone with a drone is totally different and likely impossible to defend against.
I’ve seen substations surrounded by 15’ high concrete walls in Maryland. This was in a city where the powerlines are underground. If you didn’t know what was there before and didn’t look at just the right time to see in the driveway, you’d never know it was anything but just another concrete wall/building.
 

psychgirl

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Everyone on this forum should already be prepared for any size blackout from just a few hours to several weeks, or longer. If not, why not?
That’s a huge blanket statement.

Even for a lot of preppers, going several weeks of a blackout is a tall order.

We would be fine for a week but any longer would be a little sketchy. Im not worried about having food but I AM worried about potentially losing all of the meat in the freezers.
Not all of us are able to afford a generator.

This reminds me; I need to stock up on more candles and fresh batteries.
I just opened a large pack of batteries that I bought last spring and every single one had corroded! Grrrrr!!! I need all sizes but that’ll cost a pretty penny. :(
 

Luddite

Veteran Member
Not all of us are able to afford a generator.
Very true. A smaller generator like a 3000 watt model won't be very expensive.

Garage sales may be a good place to look.
Pawn shops too.

An inverter probably a 1500 or 2000watt hooked to your car battery could keep a freezer in good shape for days maybe weeks on one tank of gas.

There are many options and we have gone over them many times on this forum.

Is a thousand dollars of food worth a couple hundred dollars insurance in alternative electricity? Each person decides for themselves.
 

SouthernBreeze

Has No Life - Lives on TB
That’s a huge blanket statement.

Even for a lot of preppers, going several weeks of a blackout is a tall order.

We would be fine for a week but any longer would be a little sketchy. Im not worried about having food but I AM worried about potentially losing all of the meat in the freezers.
Not all of us are able to afford a generator.

This reminds me; I need to stock up on more candles and fresh batteries.
I just opened a large pack of batteries that I bought last spring and every single one had corroded! Grrrrr!!! I need all sizes but that’ll cost a pretty penny. :(

I would make it a high priority to at least get a generator (gas or solar) to keep your freezers going. If not, I would begin canning all meats and everything else in your freezers to avoid losing it all. Sometimes making things a priority takes making sacrifices in other areas.

I strongly believe that at some point, if the grid goes down permanently, we're all going to have to go back to 1800's living, eventually. Batteries for solar and gas for gennies will run out sooner or later.
 
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SouthernBreeze

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Very true. A smaller generator like a 3000 watt model won't be very expensive.

Garage sales may be a good place to look.
Pawn shops too.

An inverter probably a 1500 or 2000watt hooked to your car battery could keep a freezer in good shape for days maybe weeks on one tank of gas.

There are many options and we have gone over them many times on this forum.

Is a thousand dollars of food worth a couple hundred dollars insurance in alternative electricity? Each person decides for themselves.

Exactly.
 

Marseydoats

Veteran Member
That’s a huge blanket statement.

Even for a lot of preppers, going several weeks of a blackout is a tall order.

We would be fine for a week but any longer would be a little sketchy. Im not worried about having food but I AM worried about potentially losing all of the meat in the freezers.
Not all of us are able to afford a generator.

This reminds me; I need to stock up on more candles and fresh batteries.
I just opened a large pack of batteries that I bought last spring and every single one had corroded! Grrrrr!!! I need all sizes but that’ll cost a pretty penny. :(
I store all my batteries in the original pack inside a big ziplock in the refrigerator. My house probably gets 115 degrees inside in the summer. You can take some steel wool and scrub the corrosion off and sometimes that will revitalize them.
I have found that the Sunbeam brand batteries that the $1.25 Tree sells are just as good as the name brand.
 

psychgirl

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I store all my batteries in the original pack inside a big ziplock in the refrigerator. My house probably gets 115 degrees inside in the summer. You can take some steel wool and scrub the corrosion off and sometimes that will revitalize them.
I have found that the Sunbeam brand batteries that the $1.25 Tree sells are just as good as the name brand.
Interesting!
Thank you!
 

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Very true. A smaller generator like a 3000 watt model won't be very expensive.

Garage sales may be a good place to look.
Pawn shops too.

An inverter probably a 1500 or 2000watt hooked to your car battery could keep a freezer in good shape for days maybe weeks on one tank of gas.

There are many options and we have gone over them many times on this forum.

Is a thousand dollars of food worth a couple hundred dollars insurance in alternative electricity? Each person decides for themselves.
Not only exactly as SB said, but also being on THIS board, knowing that a genie is a must for even short term emergencies last been a long, in terms of years, conversation.

So to the point of why not, isn't a reference to getting out and buying one on the spur of the moment, but rather over the long term, saving money and making it priority, why haven't they done this?

Even low income families can make it a priority, and save for it. If you're putting 10.00 a week into prep items, they won't do you much good if it's frozen without a genie. So stop filling the freezer buy on a as use basis, and put the money into a genie.

Not only can they use your advice in attaining one, but brand new ones are going for 349.00 2000 watt inverters on Amazon or a 4650 watt for 319.00

just googled "gas powered generators portable" 10.00 a week for 32 weeks it's done.
 

bw

Fringe Ranger
Not only exactly as SB said, but also being on THIS board, knowing that a genie is a must for even short term emergencies last been a long, in terms of years, conversation.
A generator can be useful to a certain group of people. To anyone near others, it's likely to be a liability. It requires fuel to run, which requires safe storage that's not always feasible. It makes noise which tells the world you've got stuff. There can be much better things to invest in than a generator.
 

bw

Fringe Ranger
Can you provide us with a list?
Solar panels and deep-cycle batteries are better for stealth, if you need stealth or don't have infinite fuel. (If you're one of those who calls a battery a Generator, try to use the right word. Generators generate electricity; batteries store it but do not generate it.) Better yet, don't require stuff that uses electricity. Electric power should be one of those things that's nice to have, not something you're going to die without.
 

SouthernBreeze

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Solar panels and deep-cycle batteries are better for stealth, if you need stealth or don't have infinite fuel. (If you're one of those who calls a battery a Generator, try to use the right word. Generators generate electricity; batteries store it but do not generate it.) Better yet, don't require stuff that uses electricity. Electric power should be one of those things that's nice to have, not something you're going to die without.

What I was trying to say is that those batteries that store solar will eventually have to be replaced, or am I wrong about that?

I agree with you about electricity being nice to have, but we are able to go off grid at any time we choose. It won't be easy, but it's doable. Yes, we have a gas generator, but we also know that gas will become unavailable, eventually, in a total grid down situation. We have back up plans for that, as in having our place set up for 1800's living. I'm also canning all meat from my freezers, before there is a need to do so.
 

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
A generator can be useful to a certain group of people. To anyone near others, it's likely to be a liability. It requires fuel to run, which requires safe storage that's not always feasible. It makes noise which tells the world you've got stuff. There can be much better things to invest in than a generator.
While that may be true, it is only true in part.

New generators, which are required in RV parks, make nearly no noise.

I have those. You can stand on the front porch and not hear it running on the back porch. And if it is raining, I have a 3 sided insulated type dog house to house it, which makes it even less noisy.

And if you'd been following the genie threads has been told of many times.

While not feasible in general in high apts. neither is being a prepper, due to space constraints.

And there may be better things to invest in, but there may not be anything more important, especially if you have a refrigerator, or freezer. And I would assume that most on this prepper board do.

When we started prepping (1999) the first thing we bought was a freezer. 2nd was a camp stove, 3rd was a genie. All of that was for the purpose of being able to keep, what we were buying. Then we started in on the food, and water. And of course TP. Up till then I had a complete set of World Encyclopedia books.

But to each their own, I'm sure.
 

db cooper

Resident Secret Squirrel
I’ve seen substations surrounded by 15’ high concrete walls in Maryland. This was in a city where the powerlines are underground. If you didn’t know what was there before and didn’t look at just the right time to see in the driveway, you’d never know it was anything but just another concrete wall/building.
I find that interesting, and a good thing for Marylanders. The only way they could truly harden this facility would be to put a roof on it with enough pitch so a dropped IED would roll off. However an IED rigged to detonate on impact would put a hole in the roof with debris doing damage.

The subject of "hardened" was mentioned. I've worked in the military where certain areas are hardened. This typically means the hardened facility is either underground or covered with earth and concrete and is designed to withstand a certain blast either from conventional bombing or nuclear. I've also been in hardened surface buildings which are hardened. The building is concrete, even the interior walls are concrete. The nucleus of the building (the very center rooms) is surrounded by other rooms all the way around. The nucleus is what's actually hardened, the outer rooms are considered toast in a nuclear attack. Their purpose is to provide additionally safety for the interior rooms.
 

gjwandkids

Contributing Member
Some people have just started prepping. Some people have already gone through a crisis or three and are rebuilding. Some people are saving up for a generator but aren't there quite yet. Blanket condemnation of everyone who isn't at a given level of preparedness is unnecessary.

Personally, having the canning equipment to save the meat in my freezer is a higher priority than replacing the generator. I'd rather put in solar anyway it's quieter and I won't draw so much attention to my house.
 

Raggedyman

Res ipsa loquitur
Solar panels and deep-cycle batteries are better for stealth, if you need stealth or don't have infinite fuel. (If you're one of those who calls a battery a Generator, try to use the right word. Generators generate electricity; batteries store it but do not generate it.) Better yet, don't require stuff that uses electricity. Electric power should be one of those things that's nice to have, not something you're going to die without.
Very true . . .BUT . . . I’m also sitting here with a roof full of solar panels that couldn’t easily be located elsewhere. they can be seen by anyone looking up at the hous from the rod. The GOOD NEWS is that it’s a dead end road with very little traffic on it - the BAD NEWS is that it only takes one bad actor to remember what they saw and where it was.

everything has its ups and downs. Do the best that you can. It’s an understood that not everyone can run out and get a generator or install solar. ONLY YOU can REALLY know exactly wat you can and can’t do. All of it - for EVERYONE OF US comes down to priorities.

one last thot. I’m a huge advocate of propane or diesel generators - with propane being the first. Easy to store on site. NEVER goes bad. In 20+ years I’ve had only one leak and yers trooly dun it by being stupid on a track hoe where I should have stopped and used a shovel. I KNEW I was getting close but NO . . . dum dum just HAD TO TAKE one more bite before the shovel. Fortunately it wasn’t much of a loss at all.
 

bw

Fringe Ranger
New generators, which are required in RV parks, make nearly no noise. ... And if you'd been following the genie threads has been told of many times.
Been following it, and also the comments about how well they can be heard when there's no other noise out there.

Your quiet gennie can probably be heard from half a mile away without a problem. We had a little security issue here and I ended up on sentry duty with a pocket MP3 recorder/player and headphones. I could hear small waves lapping on the beach of a protected cove a quarter mile away. I could damn sure find your gennie. With a purpose-built parabolic mic I could probably find it from a mile, but ANYONE can come up with a MP3 recorder.
 

colonel holman

Veteran Member
Every time I visit Florida or other southern states I wonder how long anyone could last, especially during summer months, when they loose air conditioning, especially in high rise apartment buildings. There is no escape for them. -20f in winter Maine is easily survivable with many options to avoid hypothermia. But no escape for those southerners. The primary reason I would never move south like so many of my olde folk peers in New England. Did 2 wks of grid down in dead of winter in Maine back in 1999 and it was a piece of cake to get by.
 

Dobbin

Faithful Steed
Every time I visit Florida or other southern states I wonder how long anyone could last, especially during summer months, when they loose air conditioning, especially in high rise apartment buildings. There is no escape for them. -20f in winter Maine is easily survivable with many options to avoid hypothermia. But no escape for those southerners. The primary reason I would never move south like so many of my olde folk peers in New England. Did 2 wks of grid down in dead of winter in Maine back in 1999 and it was a piece of cake to get by.
James Howard Kunstler (JHK) in his "World Made by Hand" book points out that the only reason that southern portions of the nation are "habitable" today is because of central air conditioning. And without AC many are not comfortably habitable for large portions of the year.

Study of the traditional architecture of the region indicates many of the ways "the locals" managed to survive: large roofed houses with high ceilings, open "through" passages, and situated originally in large cleared spaces. This sort of structure is not adaptable to air conditioning and even given the historic structural adaptation, may have been abandoned for life outdoors during the warmest nights of the southern year.

A "Bahamian woven hammock" slung between porch roof posts may have been essential for humans sleeping.

Dobbin
 

Samuel Adams

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Seriously…..come see my place, and I’ll show you how to set up and live without electricity.

Water
Heat
Hot Water
Food
Waste Disposal
Washing (anything)
Bathing
Cooking
Housekeeping
General Construction
Entertainment
Lighting
Livestock Watering

….and more…..

Not a problem with a little pre-planning and not much cost.


ETA….food preservation and storage…..no refrigerator or freezer here (save November-March, of course) and we do meat, milk, eggs, leftovers….etc.

Git ‘r dun….
 
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bw

Fringe Ranger
Study of the traditional architecture of the region indicates many of the ways "the locals" managed to survive: large roofed houses with high ceilings, open "through" passages, and situated originally in large cleared spaces. This sort of structure is not adaptable to air conditioning and even given the historic structural adaptation, may have been abandoned for life outdoors during the warmest nights of the southern year.
This is how we designed our house near Baton Rouge. Classic Acadian deep porches, high ceilings, huge high roof with lots of venting, no sun could hit a window. We ran ceiling fans most of the time, but AC for only a few days in the summer. Our electric bill was under a hundred bucks as I recall, when people in low-roof ranches were paying $700+.
 

Doc1

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Several things I'd like to observe and share with you:

There are many different types of "blackouts." Often, in the third world, there are frequent blackouts with only intermittent mains current available. That's very different than a grid-down, (effectively) permanent end of mains power. These two different types of blackouts can be handled somewhat differently, with some overlapping equipment and procedures.

Should the power go down, either temporarily or permanently, the easiest thing to do is to provide lighting for your family. Is lighting important? Yes and for two different reasons; in the first place it effectively lengthens your work day and secondly, it provides important psychological support to you and your family. It can also be a negative by drawing the attention of criminal of various ilk, but that's a conversation for another day.

The advent of inexpensive LED lighting equipment has made providing off-grid lighting the easiest and least expensive alternative electricity function to put together before a blackout. If you understand or can learn simple 12 volt direct current circuitry and wiring, you can start with a simple lighting fixture, a 12 volt LED bulb, some wiring and a 12 volt battery. A used 12 volt auto battery that's not strong enough to start a vehicle, but will still hold a charge can run one or more 12 volt LED bulbs for weeks at a time. I've written on this board about how I restore 12 volt lead-acid batteries and our emergency lighting is based around deep cycle batteries that I've restored. These are connected to mains-powered battery tenders, which keep the batteries charged. Should the power go out, these deep cycle batteries are enough to keep the LED bulbs burning for many weeks before needing to be recharged,

To recharge the batteries, I have solar panels and both a gas generator and our big diesel generator. Unless the blackout happens during the height of our summer heat, when we'll want air conditioning, I don't even bother cranking up the generators and we run the household on batteries alone. The batteries provide lighting and a 12 volt/115 volt inverter will run the computers - if we want them - and other small appliances.

I don't like to try to operate our freezers and fridge on the batteries alone because it draws them down too quickly. I can do it, but prefer not to. Remember that freezer motors don't usually run very long: They operate long enough to bring the temperature down and then only intermittently run to keep the temperature low. If you don't open the freezer - especially a chest freezer - the contents should stay frozen for at least two or three days without power. Then I'll crank one of our generators - or start one of our vehicles and use an inverter, if I want to minimize noise - to run the freezers for an hour or two. It's important to keep your freezers full to maximize the ability to keep the contents cold. We fill any empty spots in the freezer with plastic water bottles to make ice.

Note that the situation with refrigerators is different. Refrigerators are opened much more frequently and the contents - even if you don't open the fridge - will barely stay cool for much longer than a day. When a blackout appears to be lengthy, we start eating the contents of the refrigerator and transfer the other foods into a large ice chest. We then cool the ice chest with the frozen water bottles from our freezers. After all of the refrigerator food is consumed, we'll leave it empty with the door open and not use it again until (and if) the mains power comes back on.

Well, before this post becomes too lengthy I'll close it, but now you should have enough information and tactics to keep your household functioning for a long time after a blackout.

Best
Doc
 
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CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Been following it, and also the comments about how well they can be heard when there's no other noise out there.

Your quiet gennie can probably be heard from half a mile away without a problem. We had a little security issue here and I ended up on sentry duty with a pocket MP3 recorder/player and headphones. I could hear small waves lapping on the beach of a protected cove a quarter mile away. I could damn sure find your gennie. With a purpose-built parabolic mic I could probably find it from a mile, but ANYONE can come up with a MP3 recorder.
You are more than welcome to try. And unless you got one, you'd never understand it.

I was standing next to a diesel powered pull around on two-wheeled trailer over head high genie, and wondered if it was running. Had to touch it and feel it vibrate, before I knew.

For instance this one:


under features:

Equipped with the fitted Yamaha Quiet Technology. It's quiet operation allows you to have a conversation near one and may not even realize it's running. (57-65dBA)

So like yeah that quite is not just a selling point, it's for real.
 

bw

Fringe Ranger
You are more than welcome to try. And unless you got one, you'd never understand it.
Already got one that's whisper-quiet. Unless you explore what a 12-year-old can do with an MP3 recorder, and particularly backed up with Audacity, you will be equally uninformed of my view. When you can hear a battery clock ticking in the next room through a closed door, it's impressive.

I am not the source of your risk, when the balloon goes up. Your danger is going to come from a 12-year-old who's not an imbecile, whose family is hungry and cold, who has nothing to occupy him with the internet down, and who has normal kid electronics lying around.
 

SouthernBreeze

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Some people have just started prepping. Some people have already gone through a crisis or three and are rebuilding. Some people are saving up for a generator but aren't there quite yet. Blanket condemnation of everyone who isn't at a given level of preparedness is unnecessary.

Personally, having the canning equipment to save the meat in my freezer is a higher priority than replacing the generator. I'd rather put in solar anyway it's quieter and I won't draw so much attention to my house.
Well, since you think I was making blanket condemnations, that was not my intent. But, for those who have been on this forum for years and have made no preps for times of power outages, that just doesn't register on my brain. Canning is all well and good as long as you have propane or other means of powering that canner.
 

Luddite

Veteran Member
Your danger is going to come from a 12-year-old who's not an imbecile, whose family is hungry and cold, who has nothing to occupy him with the internet down, and who has normal kid electronics lying around.
Thank you for that sobering reminder. A hard heart and constant vigilance will be vital.
Off to buy more bullets...
 

Ractivist

Pride comes before the fall.....Pride month ended.
Not sure keeping battery’s cold is good for them as alkaline goes
Rechargeable prior to charging or during is reasonable

Cold runs battery’s down

Am I wrong?
 

SouthernBreeze

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Thank you for that sobering reminder. A hard heart and constant vigilance will be vital.
Off to buy more bullets...

Makes me wonder about all of these whole house generators that will keep everything running in a power down, long term situation. If you have lights and everything else running, that will surely make people notice. If you have ac, fans, and lights going, chances are they will also know you have plenty of food. You'll become a prime target. Running a whole house generator is much different than just running a quiet small generator a couple of hours every couple of days just to bump up a freezer and fridge.
 

bw

Fringe Ranger
Running a whole house generator is much different than just running a quiet small generator a few hours every couple of days just to bump up a freezer and fridge.
They're great when you have frequent short outages as we do. My neighbor has one, and they never lose their lights. But when there is no hope of power coming back, running one would be insane.
 

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Not sure keeping battery’s cold is good for them as alkaline goes
Rechargeable prior to charging or during is reasonable

Cold runs battery’s down

Am I wrong?
Just as an aside for fun.

Jerry Clower a southern comedian, once noted, that back in the day, they would set batteries by the fire place, (to heat them up) and run and juke them in to listen to the radio, and then snatch the knobs off, so nobody could change the station.
 

Millwright

Knuckle Dragger
_______________
They're great when you have frequent short outages as we do. My neighbor has one, and they never lose their lights. But when there is no hope of power coming back, running one would be insane.

Generators are freezer insurance, first.

Long term outage is different.

Save fuel for special applications, running shop tools, welder, meat grinder, etc.

Things that would be difficult or impossible without power.
 
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