20Gauge
TB Fanatic
That big middle east thing is soon also. The one where everyone who is Muslim is required to go to Mecca....
CORONA Main Coronavirus thread
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That big middle east thing is soon also. The one where everyone who is Muslim is required to go to Mecca....
Marthanoir
TB Fanatic
Seeker22
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Somewhere upthread is a post about the social media hiring what are essentially trolls to poo poo and make light of the threat of the virus. So as not to create panic. They are backing that up by taking down a bunch of posts that might be of help to us. These people have no conscience and no soul.
ChicagoMan74
ULTRA MAGA
Aw cmon.
There is definitely some WOO...mixed in with some truth, fearmongering, click-bait, twitter frenzies and medical arm chair quarterbacking.
bw
Fringe Ranger
There's ALWAYS something big soon. The calendar goes round and round.
EMICT
Veteran Member
Opinion | U.S. Hospitals Aren’t Ready for the Coronavirus
No one knows whether the coronavirus will substantially threaten the U.S., where it has already been detected, but one thing is certain: American hospitals aren’t ready for the deadly virus or a future global contagion. Travelers from China’s Wuhan region are being diverted to five U.S. airports, where they can be screened. That’s sensible, but it’s no substitute for improving hospital readiness.
If the virus becomes a domestic threat, American public safety will depend on what hospitals do when someone unknowingly infected with the coronavirus shows up in the emergency room. That is the lesson of severe acute respiratory syndrome, better known as SARS, which is caused by another coronavirus.
Canada learned it the hard way in 2003, as deaths from SARS soared in the province of Ontario. Seventy-seven percent of people infected with SARS there contracted it in the hospital. They were patients, visitors and health-care workers. Another 17% got it at home, often from a health-care worker who lived with them. In short, SARS started as a travel infection but rapidly became a hospital infection because of lax infection-control standards. The same laxity is found in most U.S. hospitals today.
On March 7, 2003, two undiagnosed men with the SARS virus went to the hospital in two different Canadian cities. In Vancouver, the disease didn’t spread. But in Toronto, one infection was allowed to become a deadly outbreak, which killed 44 people in two months. For most hospitals in Ontario, “infection control was not a high priority,” according to the SARS Commission’s final report, delivered to the government of Ontario in January 2007.
In Vancouver, by contrast, “a robust worker safety and infection control culture” enabled the hospital to contain the virus, the report found. The Vancouver man with SARS felt ill after a trip to Asia and went to the hospital. Because of his symptoms, the staff whisked him out of the crowded ER within five minutes. Caregivers wore tight, moisture-proof masks and disposable gowns to protect themselves.
The same evening, the Toronto man, whose mother had come from Hong Kong two weeks earlier, went to the hospital with feverish symptoms. For 16 hours he was kept in a packed emergency department. His virus infected the man in the adjacent bed, who had come to the ER with heart problems, and another man three beds away with shortness of breath. Those two other men went home within hours but were later rushed back to the hospital, where they spread the virus to paramedics, ER staff, other ER visitors, a housekeeper working in the ER, a physician, two hospital technologists and, later, staff and patients in the critical-care units.
Poor adherence to infection-control protocols was to blame. Staff failed to wear masks and disposable gowns and didn’t wear face shields while inserting breathing tubes down patients’ airways. After the initial Toronto patient was finally admitted to a hospital room, it took five more hours for him to be isolated.
Even if this new virus peters out—the World Health Organization decided Thursday not to declare a “global health emergency”—improving infection control in U.S. emergency rooms wouldn’t be a wasted effort. It would save lives every day.
Sloppy infection control isn’t only a Canadian problem. A June 2017 literature review of shortcomings in U.S. emergency rooms found a lack of adequate distance between patients, use of contaminated equipment, failure to use shields to protect health-care workers who are intubating patients, and failure to ask coughing patients to wear masks.
During the SARS outbreak in Toronto, doctors and nurses brought the virus home to their families. That could happen here in America. Hospital workers routinely wear contaminated uniforms after work, taking them home and sometimes even into restaurants.
Have precautions improved in response to recent global health threats, such as SARS and Ebola? Yes, and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention deserves some credit. The CDC conducted “mystery patient” drills at ERs in 49 New York City hospitals, sending in 95 patients pretending to have symptoms of measles and Middle East respiratory syndrome. In 78% of cases, the ER staff gave these patients masks and isolated them quickly. Even so, only 36% of health-care staff washed their hands. The CDC found “suboptimal adherence to key infection control practices.”
It’s a nationwide problem. More than 70,000 U.S. patients die each year from infections they contract in hospitals. The CDC warns that if you don’t have the flu and go to an emergency room, you’re at risk of getting it there. Contaminated beds, furniture and medical equipment allow bacterial infections to race through hospitals. What’s to stop the coronavirus? The CDC warns that you can pick up the virus by touching a chair or doorknob with the virus on it.
This latest coronavirus should be a red flag for American hospitals, which need to get serious about infection control. Even if luck holds, and the new virus doesn’t spread further, better infection control will still save tens of thousands of lives a year. It’s a no-brainer.
Ms. McCaughey is chairman of the Committee to Reduce Infection Deaths.
Copyright ©2019 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved. 87990cbe856818d5eddac44c7b1cdeb8
Opinion | U.S. Hospitals Aren’t Ready for the Coronavirus
Lessons from Canada’s 2003 SARS outbreak, when Toronto got sick and Vancouver didn’t.www.wsj.com
Having seen first hand, most US hospitals have curtailed spending on everything but direct patient care processes. This means that support staff have been cut past bare minimums. This support staff usually consists of environmental services (cleaning crews), security, food prep, sterile processing, supply, etc. Our emergency department has rooms for 38 patients but routinely treats 50-60 patients at any given time. There is a lot of use of "hall beds" to accommodate this, and NO, the direct patient care staff has not been increased to accommodate this perpetual surge. This is just routine patient load.
When the Ebola scare of 2014-2015, the facility I work at constructed a bio containment unit consisting of one bed. Volunteers were trained in PPE, patient care while wearing PPE, safety, clean up procedures, disposal of waste, etc. That effort lasted about 14 months. Since that time, zero training has been authorized, overtime for participants have been denied, and the unit has been all but abandoned. I have no reason to believe that our facility, which is owned by the largest Catholic healthcare organization in the nation, is the exception to the rule.
Absolutely no funds are expended on "what if's" in the health care industry. I have since given up my position with the bio-team as I cannot in good faith be part of a haphazard approach to bio emergencies. If this breaks loose here like it has in China, don't expect to see any difference in the nightmare photos and stories coming out of the Chinese health care system just because we are the USA. Our photos and stories will be just as bad, if not worse, due to the 'gib me dat' nature of our society.
Has anyone seen an updated number of suspected cases in the US? All I can find is the 63 from two days ago.
In my search I did see an article from the New York Times that state’s that protesters in Hong Kong set fire to buildings that authorities were hoping to use as quarantine sites. I’m on my phone and can’t seem to be able to copy the article here.
In my search I did see an article from the New York Times that state’s that protesters in Hong Kong set fire to buildings that authorities were hoping to use as quarantine sites. I’m on my phone and can’t seem to be able to copy the article here.
Seeker22
Has No Life - Lives on TB
High risk professionals use dark/black humor to cope. On the board, we use Woo.
It's all good.
The number of fatalities seems stable.
Some reports say that other reason’s are listed on death certificates to minimize the reported numbers. Also if bodies are immediately sent for cremation then only the cremation services have an idea.
I think the government wants to hide the numbers to provide cover fir WHO not to get involved and because they may suspect the source is not the often reported wild animals from the wet market.
There were also reports of people being sent back home. There will possibly need door to door checks over the next 3-4 weeks to identify if people have succumbed in their apartment. In Japan it is not uncommon for isolated elderly to die in their homes or apartments to be discovered days or more later from smell, fluids leaking through floors or relatives not receiving contact.
Some reports say that other reason’s are listed on death certificates to minimize the reported numbers. Also if bodies are immediately sent for cremation then only the cremation services have an idea.
I think the government wants to hide the numbers to provide cover fir WHO not to get involved and because they may suspect the source is not the often reported wild animals from the wet market.
There were also reports of people being sent back home. There will possibly need door to door checks over the next 3-4 weeks to identify if people have succumbed in their apartment. In Japan it is not uncommon for isolated elderly to die in their homes or apartments to be discovered days or more later from smell, fluids leaking through floors or relatives not receiving contact.
Greenspode
Veteran Member
21 students from Chinese province at center of virus outbreak in Fairfax County for school, cultural exchange
Twenty-one students and five chaperones from the province at the epicenter of the deadly coronavirus outbreak in China arrived in the D.C. region two days ago to take part in a school exchange program with Longfellow Middle School in Falls Church, Virginia.
21 students from Chinese province at center of virus outbreak in Fairfax County for school, cultural exchange
FAIRFAX COUNTY, Va. (FOX 5 DC) - Twenty-one students and five chaperones from the province at the epicenter of the deadly coronavirus outbreak in China arrived in the D.C. region two days ago to take part in a school exchange program with Longfellow Middle School in Falls Church, Virginia.
Found this on facebook. Comments are as disturbing as the article itself.
Seeker22
Has No Life - Lives on TB
You made an Honorable decision by stepping down from your position, and I commend you. It is a special feeling to have nothing on your conscience.
There was in the BS a while back a discussion of medical supplies that were hard to find, or simply unobtanium. It might be a good idea for people in the know to post there again as to what the holes in the supply chain are now. It might paint a clearer picture of what we are about to face.
Do I believe that this could be an escaped bio-weapon, yes. Do I think that it was released intentionally and government sanctioned, not a chance.
First once you release a bio-weapon, you no longer can control the path and it's target. Second, if a government did release and try to direct said virus at the US, the response demanded would involve many mushroom clouds as the American people would be afraid, angry and very dangerous.
*Near*-complete, and way too late! Have any yet been shown to be unrelated to anyone originally infected in Wuhan/Hubei?
Jubilee on Earth
Veteran Member
What’s going to really muddy this whole thing up here in the U.S. is the widespread flu activity. I have a relatively small list of friends on Facebook, and I know three people (one child, one teen, and one adult) who are in the hospital for the flu. Two mentioned extremely high fevers. I have to imagine the urgent care clinics and hospitals are quite busy as it is at the moment.
Cascadians
Leska Emerald Adams
The only remaining question might be is this "accidental" or not. Because of the outrageously suspicious timing I believe it is Cabal and purposeful. Already seen proof it is engineered, man-made tinkering with biowarfare agents.
So now it is a matter of seeing if it will sizzle out or kill more than half the human inhabitants of earth. It has the potential to disrupt life to the point that lack of supplies and violence will kill many of those who survive the virus itself.
So now it is a matter of seeing if it will sizzle out or kill more than half the human inhabitants of earth. It has the potential to disrupt life to the point that lack of supplies and violence will kill many of those who survive the virus itself.
At first the video looked to me like parts from a Chinese director's version of a film such as Steven King's "The Stand". But the true horror of this one is that it is real. With "The Stand" on Youtube, a viewer does not have to there sign in.
Scotto
Set Apart
So many of these threats have been "woo" in the past. But we have to watch what China is DOING in this case, instead of what they are saying or relying on hearsay from other sources.
As I posted earlier in this thread:
China has closed MANY road in and out of quarantined cities ... and with some SERIOUS blockage as well. Dump trucks brought in to dump dirt and boulders that can't be moved (or driven over or around).
No private vehicles allowed on the roads in quarantined cities. All 70,000 movie theaters in China are closed. No public schools open. Its now illegal (until further notice) to gather for weddings, birthdays, and other private gatherings. Internet cafes and other entertainment venues closed. A hundred million people quarantined in massive cities. Hospitals and clinics are running out of simple supplies, and they are constructing new hospitals in a panic. Through all of this there are media blackouts, and people being arrested for simply reporting (or trying to) on the current situation.
But China is reporting that ONLY 56 people have died from this Corona virus?
A study was done in 2015, and they found out that 4,400 people die in China EVERY SINGLE DAY as a result of - air pollution.
So, would they shut everything down, take all of those precautions and quarantine over 100 million people - due to only 56 people dying in one week of a "flu?"
Or is China terrified?
It’s good to hear that they are taking this serious. I hope every hospital is and I hope it’s enough.
homepark
Resist
"Coronavirus Hits 15% Fatality Rate, 83% Infection Rate for Those Exposed; Lancet Publishes Early Study That Points to Alarming Consequences for Humanity
Saturday, January 25, 2020 by: Mike Adams"
Saturday, January 25, 2020 by: Mike Adams"
Old Gringo
Senior Member
I know - I should know - but I don't know, - what is "woo" Please.
Hfcomms
EN66iq
Denninger's daily update;
First 5 minutes is on impeachment so you can go past that if you wish. Goes into purposes of masking and what to look for over the next few weeks to determine if this is a real threat to the U.S. or not. He is currently on the fence but agrees that this has the possibility of being pretty bad.
View: https://youtu.be/B8988pM-o8A
RT 15 minutes
First 5 minutes is on impeachment so you can go past that if you wish. Goes into purposes of masking and what to look for over the next few weeks to determine if this is a real threat to the U.S. or not. He is currently on the fence but agrees that this has the possibility of being pretty bad.
RT 15 minutes
Seeker22
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Add to that the Corona virus is contagious in the 1-14 day incubation period. We are basically flying blind.
CaryC
Has No Life - Lives on TB
Make believe. As I understand it.
bw
Fringe Ranger
In other words, the quarantine is a complete waste of time. Subtext: New cases INSIDE the zone are no longer being carefully tracked. Those people are being written off.
Hubei is a county or province, whatever, and infected people have fled beyond it or the unknown and infected have gone beyond in the normal course of life. This is like putting up the Berlin wall. As fast as they put up the wall, people who want out are going to race past them.
yea, this could be as simple as move to get Trump to renegotiate the Trade Deal
or it could be China's "Berlin Wall" moment.
But none of this adds up. 60 people dead and 2000 infected does not equal quarantine of 100 million nor does it imply a bioweapon. China has 1,500 million people. Quarantine of 100 million is almost nothing.
That doesn't sound good at all.
Earlier reports/graphs that I saw indicated a similar infection rate but the mortality rate was much lower. Seems it was around 5%.
Not good to hear.
Let's see if the mortality rate climbs even further.
Cascadians
Leska Emerald Adams
Woo is speculation, extrapolation, opinion, overreaction, hysterical knee jerking, jumping to conclusions without solid evidence, etc. Good for What If exercises but not good for actually trying to plan and act in line with reality.
Nobody knows yet how much of this is Woo. The subject matter -- pandemics -- is full of all kinds of woo BUT has actually happened in reality in earth's history.
Nobody knows yet how much of this is Woo. The subject matter -- pandemics -- is full of all kinds of woo BUT has actually happened in reality in earth's history.
Woo is short for WooWoo.
WooWoo: unconventional beliefs regarded as having little or no scientific basis, especially those relating to spirituality, mysticism, or alternative medicine.
bw
Fringe Ranger
That's 15% while medical care is still a functioning entity. Wonder what the rate is among those who couldn't get into hospitals. Wonder what the rate is for those who holed up at home with a spouse or parent for caregiver.
I'm assuming the reason for separating the mask layers (hmmm... I never realized .N95 masks HAVE layers,... gonna have to look at ours) is because the salt crystals will irritate the skin.OK I'll also post this in preparations - Nightwolf confirms the links may now be dead - this is from his book "Apcolypic Herbalism" which is written as a guide for "fiction writers" but in reality is a prepper's handbook - but to legally publish it he included things like "dosages for Vampires etc" and he wrote it under a pen name.
Post Apocalyptic Herbology – THE THREE LITTLE SISTERS
Simon Von Wolife is a survivalist and author of the Curiosity Apothocarious newsletter, in which he advocated using correct research, dosages and proper preparawww.the3littlesisters.com
(Nightwolf’s commentary on this exerpt): surgical masks are only as good as their fit! Many of the pictures which have made it out of Wuhan show patients in and around hospitals with visible gaps between the mask and the face. Chocolate hammer!
If in doubt about a surgical mask, secure it to your face with duct tape or something similar (if you had facial hair, you already removed it – otherwise you might as well not bother trying to wear a mask). Remember that the tape is a fine area for viruses to settle and survive; treat it as contaminated. This is also why using Vaseline or similar to get a good seal may not be such a good idea: droplets get into Vaseline, mask slides around a little on face or you lift it to eat or something, and, well, you get the idea. If you do have to use a sealant of this source, just assume that every bit of it is horribly biocontaminated and treat it accordingly.
Henceforth the exerpt regarding salt and face masks:
Dr. Simon von Wolfe, Extreme Herbalism for the Post-Apocalyptic Author
A significant improvement in facemask effectiveness was recently discovered by Hyo-Jick Choi (University of Alberta, Dept. of Chemical and Mechanical Engineering), who established that a solution of table salt could be applied to the surgical mask filter in order to kill at least the influenza virus (and has received a provisional patent on the method of salt-crystallization in formulating virus deactivation systems). This works because the salt coating is dissolved by the liquid component of aerosolized particles, then swiftly recrystallizes, which kills the viruses (the authors of the original report note that less safe/readily available salts such as ammonium chloride, potassium chloride, and potassium sulfate could also be used, possibly for specialized purposes in the future). It was achieved by: removing the outer and inner layers of a standard three-ply surgical mask; dissolving table salt (sodium chloride, NaCl) in distilled water (stirring at 400 rmp, 90 C/194 F) and adding a non-ionic detergent (Tween 20 was used; the Triton series, used in many household detergents among other things, would also serve the same purpose) to reach a final concentration of 29.03 weight/volume percentage of salt and 1% volume of detergent. Choi and his team pre-wet the bare middle filters overnight in coating solution at room temperature, then put them into the desired remaining volume of coating solution (the trial used various quantities from 0-1200 microlitres for this step; the most effective volume was 1200 microlitres/filter, but higher amounts would be unlikely to diminish the effect) and dried them in an oven at 37 C/98.6 F for one day. This method proved highly effective on mice (100% survival with no weight loss and minimal to undetectable virus titres in the lungs, in marked contrast to the untreated-filter group). It was also not strain-specific.[ii] This suggests that when that killer drug-resistant influenza strain with no vaccine developed comes along, the salt-treated surgical masks are still likely to work. Regular surgical masks are expected to prevent the passage of Staphylococcus aureus bacteria; influenza viruses are ca. 1/10th the size of S. aureus bacteria. The crystallization filter has not been tested against other viruses, and might or might not work against, for instance, poxvirus (although both are enveloped viruses, so there is at least a reasonable chance that the pox envelope would not protect it); but since an influenza strain is a fairly good contender for the agent of the Catastrophe, it is well worth considering.
University of Alberta. New surgical mask doesn't just trap viruses, it renders them harmless: Innovative improvement on surgical masks will make them effective by empowering them to kill viruses. ScienceDaily. 2017 Jan. www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/01/170105160228.htm.
[ii] Quan, F.-S., Rubino I, Lee SH, Koch B, Choi HJ. Universal and reusable virus deactivation system for respiratory protection. Sci. Rep. 2017 Jan. Vol. 7, 39956 (2017). https://www.nature.com/articles/srep39956
Soooo... I wonder if you could make a homemade cloth mask out of several layers of a lightweight, but tightly woven fabric (think top quality quilt cotton, not muslin or cotton t-shirt knit), and impregnate all but the layer touching the face with the salt solution?
Yes, you'd have to do some important tailoring, using tucks and darts to help them fit closely to the face (and I might experiment with some heavy, plastic coated "twist tie" wire I have in my garden supplies (it's used to the plants to supports) to use to provide a way to shape the mask to the nose)
No, it's not going to be nearly as effective as a high level, properly fitting respirator, but it seems it would be much better than nothing...
Summerthyme
Old Gringo
Senior Member
Thanks
Old Gringo
Senior Member
Understand now. Thanks.
Marthanoir
TB Fanatic
The facts as we have them are
The outbreak has been going on for longer than China initially admitted, Central Government has taken over Wuhan , local Government is being investigated.
Several large cities (reports of up to 17 ) have been quarantined, many physically with roads dug up and blocked , reports of up to 50 million people in lockdown.
Beijing in limited lockdown.
For a official count of just over 2000 infected and 56 dead.
Is that an appropriate response.
Don’t be too hard on folks that refuse to at least investigate on their own. They are victims of the establishment dumb down media. I agree that everybody is responsible for the dumbing down of their own mind but there are few people out there that are like those of us here who question everything and investigate our asses off until we can’t hold our eyes open any more. Typically we here don’t just set our hair on fire at the first sign of the apocalypse now, but this time, I think it’s pretty serious. Woo or not, A modern country like China would not just up and Quarantine 50 million people for the flu.
it’s human nature to poke fun at what is unknown or you deem to be nothing. But to somebody somewhere it’s something. To the people dying in China it’s everything, it is the Apocalypse, big time. Every life is important to the one living it.
Those people on Facebook, Buzzfeed, liberal media, the radio stations, may very well stop giggling soon but until then don’t let them distract us from our purpose here of praying for each other and helping inform each other of what might very well be coming. We are helping each other prepare with information we find. Whether or not it’s all factual or accurate we may never know but being informed with is better than being ignorant. Let’s not be distracted by the people who refuse to listen. Prep! If it goes away, what have we lost?
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