CORONA “If Vaccines Work, Why Do The Vaccinated Need to Wear Masks?”: Psaki Can’t Answer the Question We’ve All Been Wondering

raven

TB Fanatic
ok. and that is an estimate based on the analysis of the Associated Press
the CDC has not analyzed or estimated the data because they say the "data is limited".

So, do you believe the scientist when they say they do not have the data for analysis
or do you believe the press?

Once again . . . Hope has been squandered.

Of course, most here will not believe it but:

Nearly all COVID deaths in US are now among unvaccinated (apnews.com)

An Associated Press analysis of available government data from May shows that “breakthrough” infections in fully vaccinated people accounted for fewer than 1,200 of more than 107,000 COVID-19 hospitalizations. That’s about 1.1%.

And only about 150 of the more than 18,000 COVID-19 deaths in May were in fully vaccinated people. That translates to about 0.8%, or five deaths per day on average.

The AP analyzed figures provided by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The CDC itself has not estimated what percentage of hospitalizations and deaths are in fully vaccinated people, citing limitations in the data.

Among them: Only about 45 states report breakthrough infections, and some are more aggressive than others in looking for such cases. So the data probably understates such infections, CDC officials said.

Still, the overall trend that emerges from the data echoes what many health care authorities are seeing around the country and what top experts are saying.

Earlier this month, Andy Slavitt, a former adviser to the Biden administration on COVID-19, suggested that 98% to 99% of the Americans dying of the coronavirus are unvaccinated.

And CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky said on Tuesday that the vaccine is so effective that “nearly every death, especially among adults, due to COVID-19, is, at this point, entirely preventable.” She called such deaths “particularly tragic.”
 

SmithJ

Veteran Member
ok. and that is an estimate based on the analysis of the Associated Press
the CDC has not analyzed or estimated the data because they say the "data is limited".

So, do you believe the scientist when they say they do not have the data for analysis
or do you believe the press?

Once again . . . Hope has been squandered.

The article addresses that and the fact that they are using it as trend analysis:

As it says:
Still, the overall trend that emerges from the data echoes what many health care authorities are seeing around the country and what top experts are saying.
 

medic38572

TB Fanatic
and six months after the corona outbreak
they said a vaccine was coming.
and in spite of the announcement coming from Trump
I was skeptical because everyone knows it takes almost a generation to develop a vaccine.
so, I decided to keep doing what I was doing and wait while I watched friends and associates jump on the band wagon
because the vaccine provided freedom . . . freedom from masks and social distancing.

but I did not have to wait long
as reports of people dropping dead within minutes and hours of receiving the vax
not a huge number of people but enough to make me wary.

and then reports of people getting blood clots resulting in permanent disabilities
not a huge number of people but enough to make me concerned.

and then the reports of people who had been vaccinated coming down with breakthrough corona
not a huge number but enough.

and then the government removed the last remaining justification for the vaccine
by reinstating the masks and social distancing.

but they will not admit that the vax does not provide the features and functionality as defined
instead they place the blame on the poor guy who did not believe any of their bullshit right off the bat.
and they call it science
science.jpg
 

BadMedicine

Would *I* Lie???
I lost a dear friend just 2 weeks ago to covid. Yes, he was older in age (late 80's), but he was also fully vaccinated. He had no other comorbidities (other than his age) and he had been active and healthy for his age.

I am sorry to hear of your friends passing. And of Minkykats.

IMO being LATE 80's was his "cause of death." Covid was the co-morbidity. Like expectancy is mid 70's because the body quits repairing itself, and the immune system is severely weakened, just by age. Living a decade + past average is pretty dang good, and ANY illness at 80+, hell even 70+ or 65+ for some people will be game over. Life expectancy before the 20th century was like 45. At his age I would have SEVERELY recommended against the vaccine unless he is independent and has no one to shop for him or go to the busier places. I ain't saying roll over and die, but If I had ONE co morbidity, obesity, lung problems, anything I would be doing a much stronger PERSONAL isolation.. because THATS logical. The flu, as recently as 2019 killed tens of thousands yearly... most of them elderly or compromised....that didn't change, only the politics did.

Again, sorry for your friend, but lets not argue or set the policies around what would kill octogenarians. We need to keep working, breeding, learning (school) age people in the population, and furthering 1st world life for free peoples.
 

Lone_Hawk

Resident Spook

That is the headline. Headlines are click bate.

An Associated Press analysis of available government data from May shows that “breakthrough” infections in fully vaccinated people accounted for fewer than 1,200 of more than 107,000 COVID-19 hospitalizations. That’s about 1.1%.

That is AP's analysis. Not scientific data. In other words, meaningless. We have data up to mid July, why didn't they include that in their analysis? It is available.

And only about 150 of the more than 18,000 COVID-19 deaths in May were in fully vaccinated people. That translates to about 0.8%, or five deaths per day on average.
The AP analyzed figures provided by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The CDC itself has not estimated what percentage of hospitalizations and deaths are in fully vaccinated people, citing limitations in the data.

In the 1st sentence, they make a definitive statement, but in the 2nd sentence they say the CDC says they don't know because of the lack of data. Ok, which one is a lie?

Still, the overall trend that emerges from the data echoes what many health care authorities are seeing around the country and what top experts are saying.

So the "trend," based on the "trend" last year, millions were gonna die. A "trend" is a statistical projection, and the projection is based on data that they state in their own report is useless and meaningless. Therefor the "trend" is what they made it up to be for their messaging.

Earlier this month, Andy Slavitt, a former adviser to the Biden administration on COVID-19, suggested that 98% to 99% of the Americans dying of the coronavirus are unvaccinated.

Yet, they are saying they don't have reliable data to determine that?

And CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky said on Tuesday that the vaccine is so effective that “nearly every death, especially among adults, due to COVID-19, is, at this point, entirely preventable.” She called such deaths “particularly tragic.”

While they are at the same time saying that the vaccine is not effective and fully vaxxed people should go back to wearing a mask? Ok, I'm curious, which is it, "it is wonderful" or "well, it is wonderful, but doesn't really work, so wear a mask"?

The article addresses that and the fact that they are using it as trend analysis:

So, I gather that I am supposed to make life choices based upon a wild ass guess(WAG) from the AP? And in that WAG they contradict themselves on the data?

If they had lead the article with "This is our WAG" then I would have said, OK. But they presented their WAG as fact. And that Sir, is misinformation directly from the AP
 

CaryC

Has No Life - Lives on TB
If I remember right (sometimes that doesn't happen) Summerthyme put the stats from Israel up, the most vaxxed country in the world, and didn't it show that about 70-75% of hospitalizations/new cases were vaxxed. VAXXED?

If that memory is correct - then why are the numbers reversed here? Hummm I think I found part of it, by Marsh

“I just received this morning data out of Israel that shows the population is about 84% vaccinated. But the new cases of COVID in Israel are about 84% with vaccinated individuals,” Johnson said.

Like I said why are the numbers reversed here?
 

Night Breeze

Veteran Member
For 7 months I have had the ability to take the shot. 68 years old with a compromised immune system. Waited for my Oncologist to help with the decision. Never received a Yes so I have not taken the shot. Saw him today he would not say take the shot his advice or non-advice was to consult an immunologist that has no idea what my personal medical condition is. No thanks, no shot for me or my wife 68 years old as well.
 

Lone_Hawk

Resident Spook
So.... if one calls out @SmithJ for not coming to defend his post that he said none of us would read, is that considered hunting over a baited field?

Asking for a friend....
 

Cyclonemom

Veteran Member
If I remember right (sometimes that doesn't happen) Summerthyme put the stats from Israel up, the most vaxxed country in the world, and didn't it show that about 70-75% of hospitalizations/new cases were vaxxed. VAXXED?

If that memory is correct - then why are the numbers reversed here? Hummm I think I found part of it, by Marsh

“I just received this morning data out of Israel that shows the population is about 84% vaccinated. But the new cases of COVID in Israel are about 84% with vaccinated individuals,” Johnson said.

Like I said why are the numbers reversed here?
Remind me, which Vax did Israel use? Moderna. Pfizer, J&J, Astra Zeneca or Sinovac?
 

summerthyme

Administrator
_______________
That is the headline. Headlines are click bate.



That is AP's analysis. Not scientific data. In other words, meaningless. We have data up to mid July, why didn't they include that in their analysis? It is available.



In the 1st sentence, they make a definitive statement, but in the 2nd sentence they say the CDC says they don't know because of the lack of data. Ok, which one is a lie?



So the "trend," based on the "trend" last year, millions were gonna die. A "trend" is a statistical projection, and the projection is based on data that they state in their own report is useless and meaningless. Therefor the "trend" is what they made it up to be for their messaging.



Yet, they are saying they don't have reliable data to determine that?



While they are at the same time saying that the vaccine is not effective and fully vaxxed people should go back to wearing a mask? Ok, I'm curious, which is it, "it is wonderful" or "well, it is wonderful, but doesn't really work, so wear a mask"?



So, I gather that I am supposed to make life choices based upon a wild ass guess(WAG) from the AP? And in that WAG they contradict themselves on the data?

If they had lead the article with "This is our WAG" then I would have said, OK. But they presented their WAG as fact. And that Sir, is misinformation directly from the AP
This deserves a separate post :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud:
 

SmithJ

Veteran Member
So.... if one calls out @SmithJ for not coming to defend his post that he said none of us would read, is that considered hunting over a baited field?

Asking for a friend....
I considered responding but your comments so ridiculously misinterpreted the article as to make responding useless.

Time is short. Your outlook is clear. Therefore what use is it?

My only hope is that your statements, and the statements of those like you (which are really not much different than the woo that 160 million vaccinated will drop dead in months), don’t unnecessarily influence the weak minded into not taking action that saves their life.
 
Last edited:

Lone_Hawk

Resident Spook
I considered responding but your comments so ridiculously misinterpreted the article as to make responding useless.

My only hope is that your statements, and the statements of those like you, don’t unnecessarily influence the weak minded into not taking action that saves their life.

Ok, so what did I read wrong in the AP article? Enlighten my poor feeble mind and those who might read my words and be lead astray....
 

Lone_Hawk

Resident Spook
Ignore is your friend

I decided to not use that feature of the system. But I am curious, I have a pretty good grasp of the English language. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, I wish to give the (assumed) man a chance to defend his position and correct me.
 

SmithJ

Veteran Member
I decided to not use that feature of the system. But I am curious, I have a pretty good grasp of the English language. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, I wish to give the (assumed) man a chance to defend his position and correct me.
I’ll consider it, if I decide I want to waste more time with you tomorrow when I am on a keyboard.
 
I had the sad experience of getting in the same vehicle and eating at a restaurant with a relative who had gotten the jab, didn't tell me, and I got sickened. COVID crap. I know without a doubt that I was exposed to the "shedding" of this virus. It is a relative that did it to me, he is a tit for tat type of person. One thing that happened immediately was a super heavy menses with a lot of clots.

Anyway, I had not seen him in several weeks.

Pineapple juice to clear my lungs, and ivermectin, etc. Now I battle daily with that exposure.

He had said that he was not going to get the jab. He told me his wife was going to/did. I think he caught crap from her shedding, and then he decided that he would share the misery.

Those behind this "science" are sadistic and evil to the core.
I believe you Tammy!
 
Yes---

since this NOT-a-true-vaccine 'works' NOT by putting weakened or dead coronavirus INTO the body, for your OWN immunes system to then rev up and create anitbodies for-------------instead, it MODIFIES the mRNA to give instructions to Each Cell in Your Body to MAKE -- to MANUFACTURE-- the corona virus--and THEN your immune system is supposed to jump up and recognize this "foreign" body and rev up to fight it.

YOUR OWN CELLS ARE RE-PROGRAMMED TO MANUFACTURE THE VIRUS INSIDE YOU.

Works 'fairly' well the FIRST go-round, against the first variant of Covid which was the one your cells were re-programmed to produce.

But the SECOND time you are exposed--to a slightly DIFFERENT version--

Your immune cells rev up to "kill! kill! kill!" ALL corona-virus--- but then---suddenly the white blood cells realize that they HAVEN"T killed all the "invading" virus---because here it is HERE, inside this lung cell----and here it is HERE, inside this heart cell-----and here---and here---and HERE---and HERE.........

And pretty soon you're in full cytokine storm.


That is exactly what the former VP of Pfizer, and Celeste Solem, Dr. Vanden Bossche , Professor Dolores Cahill, and numerous others had said would happen.

It is happening now.
Makes a lot of sense. I agree.
 

TheSearcher

Are you sure about that?
I’ll consider it, if I decide I want to waste more time with you tomorrow when I am on a keyboard.

5c2.jpg
 

TerryK

TB Fanatic
Vaccines work, just not at 100%.
Masks also work, just not at 100%.

The concept of relative effectiveness seems to escape some people.
Would you rather be forced to play Russian Roulette with a 12 shot S&W .22 revolver or a 6 shot revolver, both with only 1 chamber loaded?

Vaccines:
The Pfizer vaccine had an effectiveness in the high 90s percent range when the first strain of the virus came out.
Subsequent strains such as the South African and now the Delta variant have decreased that effectiveness because both of these new strains evolve a much higher level of infectiousness.
Now Pfizer is in the mid 80 percent range for effectiveness against Delta. The J&J is even lower, but both vaccines still have a high effectiveness for keeping you out of the hospital and the morgue.
No vaccine is 100% effective although some are pretty damn close. Their ultimate effectiveness depends on the individuals own immune system response to them, and that varies immensely from one person to another.
Oh, and yes all vaccines have potential side effects, whether to the vaccines components or to the sometimes unpredicatble individual immune response.

Masks:
Filter masks work by preventing some of the virus laden water droplets that someone just exhaled from entering your airway.
The smaller the porous openings or the more tiny fibers that are between your airway and the air that someone else just exhales the better the mask works. Too many layers of material or too small of pores and it becomes to difficult to breath, so by necessity mask effectiveness is always a compromise.

Expecting Psaki to give a logical explanation based on physics is beyond hopeless. She is a political mouthpiece, nothing else.
However, I do agree that she should have a prepared answer prepared by experts or have an expert on hand to answer this logical and pertinent question.

Expecting any politician or in this case political hacks to understand physics or biology is pointless and just points to the need to have more qualified people running the country.
Just to clarify. Biden and his comrades are ignorant, but so was Trump and his lackeys.
A pox on both their houses.
 

Greenspode

Veteran Member
I decided to not use that feature of the system. But I am curious, I have a pretty good grasp of the English language. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, I wish to give the (assumed) man a chance to defend his position and correct me.
He can't correct you, so he is doing the "indoctrinated shuffle" of pretending that you are just not thinking clearly and not worth his precious time. They all do that, when facts are applied to the conversation, because there is nothing else they can do. They believe because the media tells them to and they simply have no ability to think it through beyond that. When confronted with someone who has that ability they don't know what to do, so they do the ridiculous, generic "you are stupid and not worth my time, and people will die because of you" thing. They have nothing else.
 

TerryK

TB Fanatic
since this NOT-a-true-vaccine 'works' NOT by putting weakened or dead coronavirus INTO the body, for your OWN immunes system to then rev up and create anitbodies for-------------instead, it MODIFIES the mRNA to give instructions to Each Cell in Your Body to MAKE -- to MANUFACTURE-- the corona virus--and THEN your immune system is supposed to jump up and recognize this "foreign" body and rev up to fight it.

YOUR OWN CELLS ARE RE-PROGRAMMED TO MANUFACTURE THE VIRUS INSIDE Y
The vaccines do NOT program your cells to make the virus.
Do you understand that if the vaccines did that, everyone who got vaccinated would come down with covid.
Read up on how the vaccines work from a medical source such as a university medical center, but not twitter :shk:
The vaccines prompt the cell they enter to make some covid spike proteins that then migrate to the outside of the cell membrane where they trigger your immune system to produce antibodies that will recognize the real covid virus if it ever enters your body. It also hopefully triggers your memory T cells to recognize the spikes on the real virus so even a long time after antibody levels decrease the memory cells still will recognize the covid spikes and with a short delay start the manufacture of more antibodies.
But don't believe me. look it up for yourself.
 

TerryK

TB Fanatic
Of course, most here will not believe it but:

Nearly all COVID deaths in US are now among unvaccinated (apnews.com)

An Associated Press analysis of available government data from May shows that “breakthrough” infections in fully vaccinated people accounted for fewer than 1,200 of more than 107,000 COVID-19 hospitalizations. That’s about 1.1%.

And only about 150 of the more than 18,000 COVID-19 deaths in May were in fully vaccinated people. That translates to about 0.8%, or five deaths per day on average.

The AP analyzed figures provided by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. The CDC itself has not estimated what percentage of hospitalizations and deaths are in fully vaccinated people, citing limitations in the data.

Among them: Only about 45 states report breakthrough infections, and some are more aggressive than others in looking for such cases. So the data probably understates such infections, CDC officials said.

Still, the overall trend that emerges from the data echoes what many health care authorities are seeing around the country and what top experts are saying.

Earlier this month, Andy Slavitt, a former adviser to the Biden administration on COVID-19, suggested that 98% to 99% of the Americans dying of the coronavirus are unvaccinated.

And CDC Director Dr. Rochelle Walensky said on Tuesday that the vaccine is so effective that “nearly every death, especially among adults, due to COVID-19, is, at this point, entirely preventable.” She called such deaths “particularly tragic.”
I agree with your post.
The same has been found in Israel and many other countries, but I guess everyone in the world except a few "special" individuals are in on the conspiracy. :shk:

By the way Israel has already given the go ahead to start a 3rd Pfizer shot for those who are elderly or have many comorbidities that would make getting covid and almost certainly fatal outcome.

The effectiveness of Pfizer against catching covid Delta variant is as low and 80% according to Israeli medical info.
But it's effectiveness against hospitalization and even death is 85 to 90%.
It's a much smaller country so medical data and results are much easier to come by.

In trials of a 3rd Pfizer shot they have found that it increases the effectiveness of the vaccine to 5 times what the 2 shot series does.

Isreal somewhat serves as a biological petri dish for the rest of the world.


I and my family have all gotten both Pfizer shots and have had no bad reactions. If the Delta variant or a even new more infectious variant starts to emerge, we will get the 3rd Pfizer shot.
It's amazing that the anti-vaxers here all have a relative who had a bad reaction to the shot but I an most of my neighborhood have not had any.
I's be interested if anyone here got the vaccine and had serious clotting issues themselves . Please let me know.
 
Last edited:

TerryK

TB Fanatic
i will get the jab as soon as i can sue the government and the company that made it if i have any thing bad happen if i take it!.
That's your right! Don't get the shot, but it is the government or any employers right not to hire you. But if you don't need an employer or the gov it would not be a worry to you.

Seriously, rural people living on a farm most of the time and only coming into the small town to interact with a limited number of people, have a very, very tiny chance of ever getting the Covid virus.
If I was a farmer or rancher who made my living off the land I think I too might be more worried about the vaccine than the disease.

Living in a large city or suburb and visiting the local Super Walmart with thousands of cars in the parking lot, where you can't turn around without bumping into someone, is a different story.
 

TerryK

TB Fanatic
I'd like to see a link to those numbers?

While death statistics classified by vax status in Israel are difficult to find, there have only been a TOTAL of 9 covid deaths in Israel in the last week so.......

If you want statistics, heres one straight from a doctor on the ground: "Eran Segal, a scientist at Israel’s Weizmann Institute of Science who tracks COVID-19 data, tweeted on July 16 that the percent of COVID-19 patients who become critically ill has now decreased to 1.6% compared to 4% during a winter spike before vaccines were available. "

Thats a 60% drop in your chance of being "critically ill"
Along those same lines:
As of a couple of weeks ago Israel had a lower percentage of their population vaccinated than did the UK.


home page
Israeli hospitals reopen their coronavirus wards as serious cases mount
Number of serious patients reaches 153, having more than doubled in a week, Health Ministry data shows
By TOI STAFF28 July 2021, 2:52 pm
Illustrative: A Soroka Medical Center staff member works in the coronavirus ward on September 15, 2020. (Yossi Zeliger/Flash90)
Illustrative: A Soroka Medical Center staff member works in the coronavirus ward on September 15, 2020. (Yossi Zeliger/Flash90)

Several Israeli hospitals reopened their coronavirus wards Wednesday, amid a persistent rise in serious COVID-19 cases.
The hospitals had closed the wards some months ago in the wake of the widespread vaccination campaign. The number of serious cases nationwide dropped to a low of 19 last month.
But as the ultra-infectious Delta variant gained momentum, cases and serious patients have been gradually rising. The tally of serious cases reached 153 on Wednesday, including 35 listed as critical, according to Health Ministry data. The number of serious cases has more than doubled over the past week.







logo_9609.png

4

Soroka Medical Center in Beersheba announced it was reopening its coronavirus ward, which currently has nine patients, including one in serious condition. The hospital also said it was preparing to open its intensive care coronavirus unit.
Ziv Medical Center in Safed, which has four COVID-19 patients, including one in serious condition, announced a similar move.

Get The Times of Israel's Daily Editionby email and never miss our top stories

At the Galilee Medical Center in Nahariya, a 91-year-old COVID-19 patient died, three days after her 95-year-old husband succumbed to the virus.

Health Ministry data published Wednesday morning showed there were 2,260 new COVID-19 cases identified in the country on Tuesday, with 2.38 percent of tests coming back positive.
Active cases have reached 14,365, after the figure was around 200 six weeks ago.
ADVERTISEMENT

According to the data, 5,772,362 Israelis have received at least one vaccine shot, and 5,334,736 have received both doses.
F210722OF11-e1627370932700-640x400.jpg

Medical staff conduct tests for coronavirus in Jerusalem on July 22, 2021 (Olivier Fitoussi/Flash90)
A study by the Hebrew University of Jerusalem published on Tuesday indicated that the Pfizer vaccine’s effectiveness in preventing serious illness has fallen to 80 percent.

The study, which was presented to the government, also predicted that the tally of serious COVID-19 cases in Israel could reach as high as 400 in less than three weeks if no steps are taken to rein in infections.
The study warned that numbers of serious cases and patients on ventilators have been rising at a similar rate to that observed in July 2020.

“The wave of infections last July was stopped thanks to restrictions imposed in the second half of July,” the researchers wrote. “No such steps were taken this year, therefore no similar stop is expected in the near future.”
The study suggested that the effectiveness of the vaccine in preventing serious illness has dropped to 80% (compared to over 90% before the appearance of the Delta variant). It indicated the shots are 90% effective in preventing deaths.
ADVERTISEMENT

“The vaccine’s effectiveness is significantly lower than the effectiveness observed in March,” the researchers wrote.
AP21144719813912-640x400.jpg

In this March 2021 photo provided by Pfizer, vials of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine are prepared for packaging at the company’s facility in Puurs, Belgium. (Pfizer via AP)
Some analysts have warned that the figures on vaccine effectiveness are prone to major inaccuracies because of a range of factors, including questions over whether there is accurate data on infection levels among the non-vaccinated, which is vital for such stats. And British data indicates the Israeli studies may be overstating the apparent drop in effectiveness.
Israel began administering a third booster shot two weeks ago to those with severely compromised immune systems, including transplant recipients and those with blood cancers — setting a world precedent.
Nathan Jeffay and AP contributed to this report.
 

The Cub

Behold, I am coming soon.
If these "vaccines" are effective.....then, why do the fools who allowed an experimental gene altering graphene nanoparticle containing drug hyperventilate about those who did not do so?
 

TerryK

TB Fanatic
Maybe the prevailing variant is less lethal?
Actually many virologists put that out as a theory.
A virus strain evolve to become more infectious but less fatal.
Infecting more people insures survival of the virus.
Killing people does not.
The evolutionary principle of natural selection.
 

vector7

Dot Collector
Top