http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/10/04/ixhome.html
Maybe someone can cut/paste for me? I don't know how...
Maybe someone can cut/paste for me? I don't know how...
[hlth/gvt] Ebola like virus hits Pakistan/Afghanistan Border - Drudge
- Thread starter Kasota
- Start date
Ebola-style killer virus sweeps Afghan border
By Tim Butcher in Quetta
(Filed: 04/10/2001)
THE largest outbreak in history of a highly contagious disease that causes patients to bleed to death from every orifice was confirmed yesterday on Pakistan's frontier with Afghanistan.
At least 75 people have caught the disease so far and eight have died. An isolation ward screened off by barbed wire has been set up in the Pakistani city of Quetta, and an international appeal has been launched for help.
Evidence suggests the outbreak of Crimean-Congo Haemorrhagic Fever emanates from within Afghanistan, raising fears of an epidemic if millions of refugees flee across the frontier into Pakistan.
CCHF has similar effects to the ebola virus. Both viruses damage arteries, veins and other blood vessels and lead to the eventual collapse of major organs.
As one doctor put it, a patient suffering from haemorrhagic fever "literally melts in front of your eyes".
At the Fatima Jinnah Chest and General Hospital in Quetta, capital of the Pakistani province of Baluchistan, an isolation ward with eight treatment beds and two observation bays has been set up.
Nine-year-old Ismail Sadiq lay on one of the beds yesterday, his body wracked with fever and a wad of cotton wool stuffed into each nostril to stem the bleeding.
Outside members of his family sat anxiously in the shade of a tree. An elderly gentleman worked a string of worry beads through his fingers, but doctors had forbidden all visits.
The only people Ismail now sees are doctors and nurses wearing the complete "barrier nursing" outfit of sterilised hairnet, mask, gloves, gown and overshoes.
Another patient, a 65-year-old man, lay inert on his bed, with streams of dried blood on his chin, nose and tongue. His shirt was also stained heavily with blood.
Dr Akhlaq Hussain, the hospital's medical superintendent, said: "The first cases came in June. There were a number of deaths, but at first we did not know what was the cause."
A number of blood samples were sent to Pakistan's national virology testing centre in Islamabad. They were then sent to South Africa's National Institute of Virology in Johannesburg for confirmation.
Dr Hussain said: "When the results came back we knew we were dealing with Crimean-Congo Haemorrhagic Fever." He has compiled a list of all 75 cases, which involved refugees recently arrived from Afghanistan or people living close to the border.
The first known case of the disease was among Russian soldiers serving in the Crimea in 1944 and then among villagers living near the Congolese city of Kisangani in 1956. Not until 1969 were scientists able to isolate the single virus common to both.
Although there have been a number of cases since, the outbreaks have never been as large as the current one.
The doctor said: "We had our first case in Pakistan in the 1970s. It would seem there is a reservoir of the virus in Afghanistan and we are now worried about the possible effects of an influx of many new refugees.
"The virus is carried by domestic animals, and if they come in large numbers with large numbers of animals we can expect many more cases."
The authorities in Pakistan have appealed to the World Health Organisation for additional supplies to help deal with the outbreak, including storage facilities for clean blood plasma and white blood cells which can be used to replace those lost by patients.
The virus is widely distributed in the blood of sheep, cattle and other mammals across eastern Europe, Asia and Africa. It can be passed to man by a species of tick, Hyalomma marginatum, common in the same areas.
If caught in time, CCHF can be treated by replacing enough of the lost body fluids to allow the patient's own immune system to take over and kill the virus.
The facilities at Fatima Jinnah are basic, but the staff are dedicated and brave, treating patients even though there is a high risk of infection from spittle or blood.
By Tim Butcher in Quetta
(Filed: 04/10/2001)
THE largest outbreak in history of a highly contagious disease that causes patients to bleed to death from every orifice was confirmed yesterday on Pakistan's frontier with Afghanistan.
At least 75 people have caught the disease so far and eight have died. An isolation ward screened off by barbed wire has been set up in the Pakistani city of Quetta, and an international appeal has been launched for help.
Evidence suggests the outbreak of Crimean-Congo Haemorrhagic Fever emanates from within Afghanistan, raising fears of an epidemic if millions of refugees flee across the frontier into Pakistan.
CCHF has similar effects to the ebola virus. Both viruses damage arteries, veins and other blood vessels and lead to the eventual collapse of major organs.
As one doctor put it, a patient suffering from haemorrhagic fever "literally melts in front of your eyes".
At the Fatima Jinnah Chest and General Hospital in Quetta, capital of the Pakistani province of Baluchistan, an isolation ward with eight treatment beds and two observation bays has been set up.
Nine-year-old Ismail Sadiq lay on one of the beds yesterday, his body wracked with fever and a wad of cotton wool stuffed into each nostril to stem the bleeding.
Outside members of his family sat anxiously in the shade of a tree. An elderly gentleman worked a string of worry beads through his fingers, but doctors had forbidden all visits.
The only people Ismail now sees are doctors and nurses wearing the complete "barrier nursing" outfit of sterilised hairnet, mask, gloves, gown and overshoes.
Another patient, a 65-year-old man, lay inert on his bed, with streams of dried blood on his chin, nose and tongue. His shirt was also stained heavily with blood.
Dr Akhlaq Hussain, the hospital's medical superintendent, said: "The first cases came in June. There were a number of deaths, but at first we did not know what was the cause."
A number of blood samples were sent to Pakistan's national virology testing centre in Islamabad. They were then sent to South Africa's National Institute of Virology in Johannesburg for confirmation.
Dr Hussain said: "When the results came back we knew we were dealing with Crimean-Congo Haemorrhagic Fever." He has compiled a list of all 75 cases, which involved refugees recently arrived from Afghanistan or people living close to the border.
The first known case of the disease was among Russian soldiers serving in the Crimea in 1944 and then among villagers living near the Congolese city of Kisangani in 1956. Not until 1969 were scientists able to isolate the single virus common to both.
Although there have been a number of cases since, the outbreaks have never been as large as the current one.
The doctor said: "We had our first case in Pakistan in the 1970s. It would seem there is a reservoir of the virus in Afghanistan and we are now worried about the possible effects of an influx of many new refugees.
"The virus is carried by domestic animals, and if they come in large numbers with large numbers of animals we can expect many more cases."
The authorities in Pakistan have appealed to the World Health Organisation for additional supplies to help deal with the outbreak, including storage facilities for clean blood plasma and white blood cells which can be used to replace those lost by patients.
The virus is widely distributed in the blood of sheep, cattle and other mammals across eastern Europe, Asia and Africa. It can be passed to man by a species of tick, Hyalomma marginatum, common in the same areas.
If caught in time, CCHF can be treated by replacing enough of the lost body fluids to allow the patient's own immune system to take over and kill the virus.
The facilities at Fatima Jinnah are basic, but the staff are dedicated and brave, treating patients even though there is a high risk of infection from spittle or blood.
story...
Ebola-style killer virus sweeps Afghan border
By Tim Butcher in Quetta
(Filed: 04/10/2001)
THE largest outbreak in history of a highly contagious disease that causes patients to bleed to death from every orifice was confirmed yesterday on Pakistan's frontier with Afghanistan.
At least 75 people have caught the disease so far and eight have died. An isolation ward screened off by barbed wire has been set up in the Pakistani city of Quetta, and an international appeal has been launched for help.
Evidence suggests the outbreak of Crimean-Congo Haemorrhagic Fever emanates from within Afghanistan, raising fears of an epidemic if millions of refugees flee across the frontier into Pakistan.
CCHF has similar effects to the ebola virus. Both viruses damage arteries, veins and other blood vessels and lead to the eventual collapse of major organs.
As one doctor put it, a patient suffering from haemorrhagic fever "literally melts in front of your eyes".
At the Fatima Jinnah Chest and General Hospital in Quetta, capital of the Pakistani province of Baluchistan, an isolation ward with eight treatment beds and two observation bays has been set up.
Nine-year-old Ismail Sadiq lay on one of the beds yesterday, his body wracked with fever and a wad of cotton wool stuffed into each nostril to stem the bleeding.
Outside members of his family sat anxiously in the shade of a tree. An elderly gentleman worked a string of worry beads through his fingers, but doctors had forbidden all visits.
The only people Ismail now sees are doctors and nurses wearing the complete "barrier nursing" outfit of sterilised hairnet, mask, gloves, gown and overshoes.
Another patient, a 65-year-old man, lay inert on his bed, with streams of dried blood on his chin, nose and tongue. His shirt was also stained heavily with blood.
Dr Akhlaq Hussain, the hospital's medical superintendent, said: "The first cases came in June. There were a number of deaths, but at first we did not know what was the cause."
A number of blood samples were sent to Pakistan's national virology testing centre in Islamabad. They were then sent to South Africa's National Institute of Virology in Johannesburg for confirmation.
Dr Hussain said: "When the results came back we knew we were dealing with Crimean-Congo Haemorrhagic Fever." He has compiled a list of all 75 cases, which involved refugees recently arrived from Afghanistan or people living close to the border.
The first known case of the disease was among Russian soldiers serving in the Crimea in 1944 and then among villagers living near the Congolese city of Kisangani in 1956. Not until 1969 were scientists able to isolate the single virus common to both.
Although there have been a number of cases since, the outbreaks have never been as large as the current one.
The doctor said: "We had our first case in Pakistan in the 1970s. It would seem there is a reservoir of the virus in Afghanistan and we are now worried about the possible effects of an influx of many new refugees.
"The virus is carried by domestic animals, and if they come in large numbers with large numbers of animals we can expect many more cases."
The authorities in Pakistan have appealed to the World Health Organisation for additional supplies to help deal with the outbreak, including storage facilities for clean blood plasma and white blood cells which can be used to replace those lost by patients.
The virus is widely distributed in the blood of sheep, cattle and other mammals across eastern Europe, Asia and Africa. It can be passed to man by a species of tick, Hyalomma marginatum, common in the same areas.
If caught in time, CCHF can be treated by replacing enough of the lost body fluids to allow the patient's own immune system to take over and kill the virus.
The facilities at Fatima Jinnah are basic, but the staff are dedicated and brave, treating patients even though there is a high risk of infection from spittle or blood.
2 October 2001: Mud hovels await fleeing Afghans
1 October 2001: UN discovers donkey trains are only way to reach the starving
29 September 2001: Aid workers may be the Afghans' only hope
27 September 2001: Plight of the starving Afghans
26 September 2001: 1.5m Afghans heading for the borders
24 September 2001: Solitude Hut waits for tide of Afghan refugees
Ebola-style killer virus sweeps Afghan border
By Tim Butcher in Quetta
(Filed: 04/10/2001)
THE largest outbreak in history of a highly contagious disease that causes patients to bleed to death from every orifice was confirmed yesterday on Pakistan's frontier with Afghanistan.
At least 75 people have caught the disease so far and eight have died. An isolation ward screened off by barbed wire has been set up in the Pakistani city of Quetta, and an international appeal has been launched for help.
Evidence suggests the outbreak of Crimean-Congo Haemorrhagic Fever emanates from within Afghanistan, raising fears of an epidemic if millions of refugees flee across the frontier into Pakistan.
CCHF has similar effects to the ebola virus. Both viruses damage arteries, veins and other blood vessels and lead to the eventual collapse of major organs.
As one doctor put it, a patient suffering from haemorrhagic fever "literally melts in front of your eyes".
At the Fatima Jinnah Chest and General Hospital in Quetta, capital of the Pakistani province of Baluchistan, an isolation ward with eight treatment beds and two observation bays has been set up.
Nine-year-old Ismail Sadiq lay on one of the beds yesterday, his body wracked with fever and a wad of cotton wool stuffed into each nostril to stem the bleeding.
Outside members of his family sat anxiously in the shade of a tree. An elderly gentleman worked a string of worry beads through his fingers, but doctors had forbidden all visits.
The only people Ismail now sees are doctors and nurses wearing the complete "barrier nursing" outfit of sterilised hairnet, mask, gloves, gown and overshoes.
Another patient, a 65-year-old man, lay inert on his bed, with streams of dried blood on his chin, nose and tongue. His shirt was also stained heavily with blood.
Dr Akhlaq Hussain, the hospital's medical superintendent, said: "The first cases came in June. There were a number of deaths, but at first we did not know what was the cause."
A number of blood samples were sent to Pakistan's national virology testing centre in Islamabad. They were then sent to South Africa's National Institute of Virology in Johannesburg for confirmation.
Dr Hussain said: "When the results came back we knew we were dealing with Crimean-Congo Haemorrhagic Fever." He has compiled a list of all 75 cases, which involved refugees recently arrived from Afghanistan or people living close to the border.
The first known case of the disease was among Russian soldiers serving in the Crimea in 1944 and then among villagers living near the Congolese city of Kisangani in 1956. Not until 1969 were scientists able to isolate the single virus common to both.
Although there have been a number of cases since, the outbreaks have never been as large as the current one.
The doctor said: "We had our first case in Pakistan in the 1970s. It would seem there is a reservoir of the virus in Afghanistan and we are now worried about the possible effects of an influx of many new refugees.
"The virus is carried by domestic animals, and if they come in large numbers with large numbers of animals we can expect many more cases."
The authorities in Pakistan have appealed to the World Health Organisation for additional supplies to help deal with the outbreak, including storage facilities for clean blood plasma and white blood cells which can be used to replace those lost by patients.
The virus is widely distributed in the blood of sheep, cattle and other mammals across eastern Europe, Asia and Africa. It can be passed to man by a species of tick, Hyalomma marginatum, common in the same areas.
If caught in time, CCHF can be treated by replacing enough of the lost body fluids to allow the patient's own immune system to take over and kill the virus.
The facilities at Fatima Jinnah are basic, but the staff are dedicated and brave, treating patients even though there is a high risk of infection from spittle or blood.
2 October 2001: Mud hovels await fleeing Afghans
1 October 2001: UN discovers donkey trains are only way to reach the starving
29 September 2001: Aid workers may be the Afghans' only hope
27 September 2001: Plight of the starving Afghans
26 September 2001: 1.5m Afghans heading for the borders
24 September 2001: Solitude Hut waits for tide of Afghan refugees
HeliumAvid
Too Tired to ReTire
http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/n...ref04.xml&sSheet=/news/2001/10/04/ixhome.html
Bummer, WMD applied, where will it stop?
Things will get worse before they get better....
Bummer, WMD applied, where will it stop?
Things will get worse before they get better....
Loon
Inactive
Ebola-style killer virus sweeps Afghan border
By Tim Butcher in Quetta
(Filed: 04/10/2001)
THE largest outbreak in history of a highly contagious disease that causes patients to bleed to death from every orifice was confirmed yesterday on Pakistan's frontier with Afghanistan.
At least 75 people have caught the disease so far and eight have died. An isolation ward screened off by barbed wire has been set up in the Pakistani city of Quetta, and an international appeal has been launched for help.
Evidence suggests the outbreak of Crimean-Congo Haemorrhagic Fever emanates from within Afghanistan, raising fears of an epidemic if millions of refugees flee across the frontier into Pakistan.
CCHF has similar effects to the ebola virus. Both viruses damage arteries, veins and other blood vessels and lead to the eventual collapse of major organs.
As one doctor put it, a patient suffering from haemorrhagic fever "literally melts in front of your eyes".
At the Fatima Jinnah Chest and General Hospital in Quetta, capital of the Pakistani province of Baluchistan, an isolation ward with eight treatment beds and two observation bays has been set up.
Nine-year-old Ismail Sadiq lay on one of the beds yesterday, his body wracked with fever and a wad of cotton wool stuffed into each nostril to stem the bleeding.
Outside members of his family sat anxiously in the shade of a tree. An elderly gentleman worked a string of worry beads through his fingers, but doctors had forbidden all visits.
The only people Ismail now sees are doctors and nurses wearing the complete "barrier nursing" outfit of sterilised hairnet, mask, gloves, gown and overshoes.
Another patient, a 65-year-old man, lay inert on his bed, with streams of dried blood on his chin, nose and tongue. His shirt was also stained heavily with blood.
Dr Akhlaq Hussain, the hospital's medical superintendent, said: "The first cases came in June. There were a number of deaths, but at first we did not know what was the cause."
A number of blood samples were sent to Pakistan's national virology testing centre in Islamabad. They were then sent to South Africa's National Institute of Virology in Johannesburg for confirmation.
Dr Hussain said: "When the results came back we knew we were dealing with Crimean-Congo Haemorrhagic Fever." He has compiled a list of all 75 cases, which involved refugees recently arrived from Afghanistan or people living close to the border.
The first known case of the disease was among Russian soldiers serving in the Crimea in 1944 and then among villagers living near the Congolese city of Kisangani in 1956. Not until 1969 were scientists able to isolate the single virus common to both.
Although there have been a number of cases since, the outbreaks have never been as large as the current one.
The doctor said: "We had our first case in Pakistan in the 1970s. It would seem there is a reservoir of the virus in Afghanistan and we are now worried about the possible effects of an influx of many new refugees.
"The virus is carried by domestic animals, and if they come in large numbers with large numbers of animals we can expect many more cases."
The authorities in Pakistan have appealed to the World Health Organisation for additional supplies to help deal with the outbreak, including storage facilities for clean blood plasma and white blood cells which can be used to replace those lost by patients.
The virus is widely distributed in the blood of sheep, cattle and other mammals across eastern Europe, Asia and Africa. It can be passed to man by a species of tick, Hyalomma marginatum, common in the same areas.
If caught in time, CCHF can be treated by replacing enough of the lost body fluids to allow the patient's own immune system to take over and kill the virus.
The facilities at Fatima Jinnah are basic, but the staff are dedicated and brave, treating patients even though there is a high risk of infection from spittle or blood.
http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/n...ref04.xml&sSheet=/news/2001/10/04/ixhome.html
By Tim Butcher in Quetta
(Filed: 04/10/2001)
THE largest outbreak in history of a highly contagious disease that causes patients to bleed to death from every orifice was confirmed yesterday on Pakistan's frontier with Afghanistan.
At least 75 people have caught the disease so far and eight have died. An isolation ward screened off by barbed wire has been set up in the Pakistani city of Quetta, and an international appeal has been launched for help.
Evidence suggests the outbreak of Crimean-Congo Haemorrhagic Fever emanates from within Afghanistan, raising fears of an epidemic if millions of refugees flee across the frontier into Pakistan.
CCHF has similar effects to the ebola virus. Both viruses damage arteries, veins and other blood vessels and lead to the eventual collapse of major organs.
As one doctor put it, a patient suffering from haemorrhagic fever "literally melts in front of your eyes".
At the Fatima Jinnah Chest and General Hospital in Quetta, capital of the Pakistani province of Baluchistan, an isolation ward with eight treatment beds and two observation bays has been set up.
Nine-year-old Ismail Sadiq lay on one of the beds yesterday, his body wracked with fever and a wad of cotton wool stuffed into each nostril to stem the bleeding.
Outside members of his family sat anxiously in the shade of a tree. An elderly gentleman worked a string of worry beads through his fingers, but doctors had forbidden all visits.
The only people Ismail now sees are doctors and nurses wearing the complete "barrier nursing" outfit of sterilised hairnet, mask, gloves, gown and overshoes.
Another patient, a 65-year-old man, lay inert on his bed, with streams of dried blood on his chin, nose and tongue. His shirt was also stained heavily with blood.
Dr Akhlaq Hussain, the hospital's medical superintendent, said: "The first cases came in June. There were a number of deaths, but at first we did not know what was the cause."
A number of blood samples were sent to Pakistan's national virology testing centre in Islamabad. They were then sent to South Africa's National Institute of Virology in Johannesburg for confirmation.
Dr Hussain said: "When the results came back we knew we were dealing with Crimean-Congo Haemorrhagic Fever." He has compiled a list of all 75 cases, which involved refugees recently arrived from Afghanistan or people living close to the border.
The first known case of the disease was among Russian soldiers serving in the Crimea in 1944 and then among villagers living near the Congolese city of Kisangani in 1956. Not until 1969 were scientists able to isolate the single virus common to both.
Although there have been a number of cases since, the outbreaks have never been as large as the current one.
The doctor said: "We had our first case in Pakistan in the 1970s. It would seem there is a reservoir of the virus in Afghanistan and we are now worried about the possible effects of an influx of many new refugees.
"The virus is carried by domestic animals, and if they come in large numbers with large numbers of animals we can expect many more cases."
The authorities in Pakistan have appealed to the World Health Organisation for additional supplies to help deal with the outbreak, including storage facilities for clean blood plasma and white blood cells which can be used to replace those lost by patients.
The virus is widely distributed in the blood of sheep, cattle and other mammals across eastern Europe, Asia and Africa. It can be passed to man by a species of tick, Hyalomma marginatum, common in the same areas.
If caught in time, CCHF can be treated by replacing enough of the lost body fluids to allow the patient's own immune system to take over and kill the virus.
The facilities at Fatima Jinnah are basic, but the staff are dedicated and brave, treating patients even though there is a high risk of infection from spittle or blood.
http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/n...ref04.xml&sSheet=/news/2001/10/04/ixhome.html
Tom McDowell
BAMN
Looks like Bio-War!
Timing, geography, etc..
Wonder what the mechanisim of delivery was.
Might be what the change of the US attack timing was all about.
At any rate, I pity the folks affected, & pray for the suffering to be minimal. Not looking forward to the arrivial of the bug in the US. Strike that, not looking forward to the release of the bug here! Pack your own lunch!
Timing, geography, etc..
Wonder what the mechanisim of delivery was.
Might be what the change of the US attack timing was all about.
At any rate, I pity the folks affected, & pray for the suffering to be minimal. Not looking forward to the arrivial of the bug in the US. Strike that, not looking forward to the release of the bug here! Pack your own lunch!
jed brulen
Inactive
Back up a second - remember the sat pictures claiming dead animals around abandoned terrorist training camps. Has the US used WMD in Ghanistan and can we now expect a turn around.
Shock Wave Rider
Inactive
This really saddens me, and all I can say is the karma for this type of action is very bad. Like AIDS is will come back and bite them on their little monkey asses.
grannyclampett
Inactive
If no one is allowed in to visit, how did this person describe such a seemingly detailed picture of these two patients?
jed brulen
Inactive
Checked ProMed and there was an outbreak of CCHF on the Balochostan border with Ghanistan in sept 95. The second reference was to an unconfirmed outbreak in Serbia Jan 96. Spread by a vector, the lowly tick, from birds and livestock to man. Has a 50% mortality rate.
Kip Brisbois
Membership Revoked
Back up a second - remember the sat pictures claiming dead animals around abandoned terrorist training camps. Has the US used WMD in Ghanistan and can we now expect a turn around.
JMHO perhaps the bug got away from some of Bin's boys who were going to use it on us.
Kip
JMHO perhaps the bug got away from some of Bin's boys who were going to use it on us.
Kip
jed brulen
Inactive
According to Janes, CCHF has a 7-12 day incubation period. Maybe with a little extra virulence a bioweaponeer could improve the time line. Last weekend however stands out in my mind for all the warnings that were coming from our leaders. Getting close methinks to plausibility. Alas I can't find the sat pictures to get a definite date on the dead animals.
Kip Brisbois
Membership Revoked
Synap,
Good theory.
Kip
Good theory.
Kip
Tom McDowell
BAMN
Kip, et all,
I believe it's deliberate, and not an accident.
This same bug was used in Kosovo a while back, they're (the terrorists) using it to further their agenda.
The Taliban is losing control of Afgahnistan, their likely going to shift to a secondary command/control center (if they've not already). Scorched earth or not, WMD's in use. Pack your own lunch!
I believe it's deliberate, and not an accident.
This same bug was used in Kosovo a while back, they're (the terrorists) using it to further their agenda.
The Taliban is losing control of Afgahnistan, their likely going to shift to a secondary command/control center (if they've not already). Scorched earth or not, WMD's in use. Pack your own lunch!
data junkie
Membership Revoked
Well now we know what India can do with that Guiness World Record blood collection from a couple days ago....
Here is Bunker's comment, basically it looks like Laden might have laid this as a biological mine field anticipating our troops:
***Interesting. This is what awaits "invaders". Possibly a biological attack spread in advance of American special forces infiltrating. - Bunker
Here is Bunker's comment, basically it looks like Laden might have laid this as a biological mine field anticipating our troops:
***Interesting. This is what awaits "invaders". Possibly a biological attack spread in advance of American special forces infiltrating. - Bunker
Pineapple
Membership Revoked
Please, try to take a deep breath and relax. CCHem. fever has popped up in several places in this year alone. ( Pakistan, Russia, Yugoslavia/kosovo,South africa)THIS INCIDENT DOES NOT MEAN IT WAS A BIO WEAPON!!! RELAX! If you check promed mail's daily list, you'll find Ebola in Uganda, and Rift Valley Fever in Saudi Arabia, and Hantavirus in S. america. These things are out there, NATURALLY. The outbreak may be large in Afghanistan, but look at the shape those people are in. Do you think they actually are equipped to handle an outbreak of ANY disease?? It may make you worry about whether Osama could use those vitims, and that might be legitamate, but do not assume foul play is at work in this outbreak itself.
Squirrel Hunter
Membership Revoked
Thanks, Pineapple: the story does say that the first cases were isolated in June, and only just I.D.'d: 8 dead after 3 months; 75 infected. Bio-war, or just a bad example of EWGWO -- Murphy's Law?
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data junkie
Membership Revoked
Pineapple, I am relaxed. In fact, I am down right serene. One purpose of this forum to serve as a think tank, where we speculate what minor indices might yield if followed through time under certain ranges of possibilities. If this is too alarming for you then perhaps we an help you explore ways to cope with that anxiety in another thread.
What Pineapple said. Relax all. We're all stressed, but the way it sounds here, people are sounding really panicy. Don't create problems that don't exist.
We'll make it through all this, but we have to be strong and we have to be smart about it. Wild, unsupported speculation breeds rumor and confusion - the *last* thing we need right now...
SmartAZ,
Is CHF treatable? I thought it was very similar to Ebola, which isn't treatable, as far as I know. Imo, the only way to stop it is to isolate the victims so that the virus can't be transmitted.
We'll make it through all this, but we have to be strong and we have to be smart about it. Wild, unsupported speculation breeds rumor and confusion - the *last* thing we need right now...
SmartAZ,
Is CHF treatable? I thought it was very similar to Ebola, which isn't treatable, as far as I know. Imo, the only way to stop it is to isolate the victims so that the virus can't be transmitted.
Pineapple
Membership Revoked
Data, 
I have been in a nearly constant state of anxiety since September11, so I envy your sense of peace.Also, I do understand the point of the board, I've been reading it since Y2k was an issue. Besides, my comments were meant generally, and not directed at you specifically. Sorry if I gave that impression.
I am not particularly anxious about Ebola or congo fever or anything like that. If I was going to be anxious about a disease,it would be about something like small pox, or plague , which are more easily transmittable.
I just wanted it to be clear that an outbreak of this type is not uncommon in that whole region, even if the size is. These things seem important due to the circumstances we are in, but the fact is they have been going on for a long time. We just never cared before. Sort of like he shark attacks. They were actually down this year, but because the media started playing them up, people thought there was a new problem.
I have been in a nearly constant state of anxiety since September11, so I envy your sense of peace.Also, I do understand the point of the board, I've been reading it since Y2k was an issue. Besides, my comments were meant generally, and not directed at you specifically. Sorry if I gave that impression.I am not particularly anxious about Ebola or congo fever or anything like that. If I was going to be anxious about a disease,it would be about something like small pox, or plague , which are more easily transmittable.
I just wanted it to be clear that an outbreak of this type is not uncommon in that whole region, even if the size is. These things seem important due to the circumstances we are in, but the fact is they have been going on for a long time. We just never cared before. Sort of like he shark attacks. They were actually down this year, but because the media started playing them up, people thought there was a new problem.
jed brulen
Inactive
This really isn't a thread about panic or anxiety. Its about covert weapons of war. How what when where and to what end they have been used / will be used in the future. When a story appears in the press it has to be sifted for truth and lies. Facts have to be obtained and judgements made if the story is disinformation or not. Obviously in some cases the truth won't out for various reasons and therefore probability has to be used. 
CeeBee
Inactive
There's that self-aggrandizing "think tank" comment again. We're not a think tank. We're not professional analysts. We have as individuals no such qualifications. A few of us may be experts in our fields. But we have no discipline or rigor, no methods, procedures, or means of evaluation to even begin to claim to be running a "think tank" here. A motley assortment of blue-sky wannabe knowitalls doesn't count. We're not being paid for the collective output of our fine minds.
While we're great at complaining about what's wrong with the world, TimeBomb isn't going to solve the world's problems. Unlike the great think tanks, we haven't solved any serious problem yet.
TB2K is a playground for ideas. It is a venue for news and discussion, and comraderie. But far too many people actually enjoy pumping up the alarmism and melodrama while they connect the dots of DOOM, as if real events weren't interesting enough. You can see a little of that in this thread, and some of the other threads where wild speculation runs ahead of confirmation in breaking news stories. That's not thinking.
Maybe we're a W.A.G. Tank. (wild-assed-guess)
While we're great at complaining about what's wrong with the world, TimeBomb isn't going to solve the world's problems. Unlike the great think tanks, we haven't solved any serious problem yet.
TB2K is a playground for ideas. It is a venue for news and discussion, and comraderie. But far too many people actually enjoy pumping up the alarmism and melodrama while they connect the dots of DOOM, as if real events weren't interesting enough. You can see a little of that in this thread, and some of the other threads where wild speculation runs ahead of confirmation in breaking news stories. That's not thinking.
Maybe we're a W.A.G. Tank. (wild-assed-guess)
jed brulen
Inactive
CeeBee said:
Here now CeeBee - A small sample of your extremely negative comments. All coming back to your thoroughly obnoxious point.
TB2K IS WORTHLESS.
DON'T THINK. THINKING IS BAD.
BE SHEEPLE LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.
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Dan Reilly
Membership Revoked
Where is all this...
WILD speculation that Deb and CeeBee are talking about? I've read this thread throroughly over and don't see even a hint of anything that could be considered "wild". My goodness, the only thing wild I've seen are those "wild" descriptions themselves, and the admonitions from a couple of people to not panic. I haven't seen any panic, either.
CeeBee, exactly what great problems of the world have these so-called great think-tanks of yours, solved? Aids in Africa? 36,000 needless deaths of children every single day due to preventable causes? WMD being possibly released in retaliation of western threats of war? What, I ask? BTW, I'm not panicking. Really!
Dan
WILD speculation that Deb and CeeBee are talking about? I've read this thread throroughly over and don't see even a hint of anything that could be considered "wild". My goodness, the only thing wild I've seen are those "wild" descriptions themselves, and the admonitions from a couple of people to not panic. I haven't seen any panic, either.
CeeBee, exactly what great problems of the world have these so-called great think-tanks of yours, solved? Aids in Africa? 36,000 needless deaths of children every single day due to preventable causes? WMD being possibly released in retaliation of western threats of war? What, I ask? BTW, I'm not panicking. Really!
Dan
CeeBee
Inactive
OK, so I may have been a bit harsh, but let me turn it around. If the "great think tanks" have done so little good for the world, why should we be so eager to claim peer status with them?
And I do not seek to defend the conventional point of view and debunk any alternate explanation. That's Flint's job, and I despise the comfort he and the "sheeple" take from the status quo.
On the other hand, I can't go to the other extreme and accept all manner of outrageous and specious speculations and knee-jerk refutations of official information and sourcing (amazing how selective we can be about what we choose to accept as gospel).
Some of it can be just a little bit excitable, like assuming that a natural outbreak of hemmoragic fever could be a biowarfare ploy by bin Laden's men. (Oh my, wouldn't that be EXCITING! Shucks, wouldn't the converse be so dreary and mundane. Just people suffering for no reason.)
Other times, like when we were plagued by Abby, we were subjected to outright fearmongering and daily assaults of alarmism.
I don't have to like it, and occasionally, I might choose to remark upon it. Who knows, some others might even agree and be bold enough to stand up and let their point of view known, too.
And I do not seek to defend the conventional point of view and debunk any alternate explanation. That's Flint's job, and I despise the comfort he and the "sheeple" take from the status quo.
On the other hand, I can't go to the other extreme and accept all manner of outrageous and specious speculations and knee-jerk refutations of official information and sourcing (amazing how selective we can be about what we choose to accept as gospel).
Some of it can be just a little bit excitable, like assuming that a natural outbreak of hemmoragic fever could be a biowarfare ploy by bin Laden's men. (Oh my, wouldn't that be EXCITING! Shucks, wouldn't the converse be so dreary and mundane. Just people suffering for no reason.)
Other times, like when we were plagued by Abby, we were subjected to outright fearmongering and daily assaults of alarmism.
I don't have to like it, and occasionally, I might choose to remark upon it. Who knows, some others might even agree and be bold enough to stand up and let their point of view known, too.
Bio-Engineered Ebola etc - Russia
Namaste...
Specially bioenineered Ebola and Hemorraghic Fevers Agents are loaded ready to go in Warheads around globe thanks to our gov't funding the Am going through my research on WMD/ BIOS - found l999 article mentioning EBOLA BIOENGINEERED WITH SMALLPOX! This article is a "must read" .. gives specific details (GAO Reports) of Clinton Admin + cronies handing over US tax $$$ to Russia knowing they were using the funds to develop WMD!!!
Russo-American Nuclear Cities by Kenneth R. Timmerman
The American Spectator - July 1999 [Fair Use Cited for Edu Purposes] http://www.iran.org/tib/krt/cities.htm
SNIPS:
"...But a recent review by the General Accounting Office (GAO) found that some of the money has helped the Russians develop better nuclear weapons, missiles, and biological weapons--and that many civilian projects financed with U.S. taxpayer money have direct military applications. Even worse: Some of the U.S.-funded scientists and institutes are developing weapons for Iran and Libya."
GERMS, MISSILES, AND IRAN
"The State Research Center of Virology and Biotechnology, known as Vector, was founded in the 1970's to carry out topsecret research into deadly viral weapons. Given all new labs and a new charter by Mikhail Gorbachev in 1987, Vector "weaponized" new strains of smallpox at a time when the World Health Organization declared the disease eradicated worldwide. On May 24 of this year, the World Health Organization voted not to destroy the remaining world stockpiles of smallpox, which in theory are held only at Vector and in Atlanta, Georgia, for fear the Russians may have transferred them to rogue states for use as weapons.
Worldwide smallpox vaccination was halted nearly twenty years ago, leaving most of the world's population with no immunity -and thus, easy victims of a Third World biological attack. According to Ken Alibek, a Russian defector who was deputy director of Vector's parent organization, Biopreparat, the U.S. has only 7 million doses of smallpox vaccine, putting major U.S. cities at the mercy of any large-scale terrorist attack. Smallpox has killed 500 million people this century alone, making it the deadliest disease known to man.
Before Alibek defected from Russia in 1992, Vector also developed a new form of the Ebola virus known as Marburg-U, a disease which liquefies the victim's internal organs and causes the pores of the skin to ooze blood from internal bleeding. Vector's state-of-the-art production facility near the Siberian town of Koltsovo continues to receive funds from IPP and the U.S. Department of State, under a parallel program known as the International Science and Technology Centers (ISTC). Vector's programs are still "too sensitive to discuss," say former officials, who voice concern that the State Department has provided general support funds which Vector can use for whatever purpose it chooses.
These funds were awarded Vector despite U.S. government awareness that the institute is currently developing new biological weapons for the Russian military, (GRRRRRR!!!) including a new strain of German measles that creates AIDS-like symptoms in a matter of days. A Vector researcher went to Iran on a contract approved by the Russian government, the GAO discovered, at the same time that Vector was receiving U.S. taxpayer grants, ostensibly to develop new vaccines. And according to Alibek, who published a chilling insider's account of Russia's secret biological weapons programs earlier this year (Biohazard: The Chilling True Story of the Largest Covert Biological Weapons Program in the World, Random House, $24-95), ]Vector scientists have recently succeeded in introducing a gene from Ebola into the smallpox Virus to create "a smallpox-Ebola weapon."
Obolensk, a sister organization, to Vector, located in the Moscow suburbs, is also receiving ISTC grants and is developing a genetically enhanced variant of Anthrax resistant to all known vaccinations--the ultimate in biological warfare. "These institutes are definitely beyond the pale," said Zachary Davis, a nuclear analyst for the Congressional Research Service."
===
And he concludes article with these ominous words:
"We have been lucky so far, but the Clinton administration's piecemeal response to the momentous challenge created by the end of the Cold War will face far greater scrutiny after the first nuclear (OR BIO!!!) terrorist bomb goes off on Main Street, and Americans realize that it could have been prevented.
Praying & asking humbly for DIVINE intervention, TRUTH and JUSTICE!!!
Edit to fix underline problem - duh!
Namaste...
Specially bioenineered Ebola and Hemorraghic Fevers Agents are loaded ready to go in Warheads around globe thanks to our gov't funding the Am going through my research on WMD/ BIOS - found l999 article mentioning EBOLA BIOENGINEERED WITH SMALLPOX! This article is a "must read" .. gives specific details (GAO Reports) of Clinton Admin + cronies handing over US tax $$$ to Russia knowing they were using the funds to develop WMD!!!
Russo-American Nuclear Cities by Kenneth R. Timmerman
The American Spectator - July 1999 [Fair Use Cited for Edu Purposes] http://www.iran.org/tib/krt/cities.htm
SNIPS:
"...But a recent review by the General Accounting Office (GAO) found that some of the money has helped the Russians develop better nuclear weapons, missiles, and biological weapons--and that many civilian projects financed with U.S. taxpayer money have direct military applications. Even worse: Some of the U.S.-funded scientists and institutes are developing weapons for Iran and Libya."
GERMS, MISSILES, AND IRAN
"The State Research Center of Virology and Biotechnology, known as Vector, was founded in the 1970's to carry out topsecret research into deadly viral weapons. Given all new labs and a new charter by Mikhail Gorbachev in 1987, Vector "weaponized" new strains of smallpox at a time when the World Health Organization declared the disease eradicated worldwide. On May 24 of this year, the World Health Organization voted not to destroy the remaining world stockpiles of smallpox, which in theory are held only at Vector and in Atlanta, Georgia, for fear the Russians may have transferred them to rogue states for use as weapons.
Worldwide smallpox vaccination was halted nearly twenty years ago, leaving most of the world's population with no immunity -and thus, easy victims of a Third World biological attack. According to Ken Alibek, a Russian defector who was deputy director of Vector's parent organization, Biopreparat, the U.S. has only 7 million doses of smallpox vaccine, putting major U.S. cities at the mercy of any large-scale terrorist attack. Smallpox has killed 500 million people this century alone, making it the deadliest disease known to man.
Before Alibek defected from Russia in 1992, Vector also developed a new form of the Ebola virus known as Marburg-U, a disease which liquefies the victim's internal organs and causes the pores of the skin to ooze blood from internal bleeding. Vector's state-of-the-art production facility near the Siberian town of Koltsovo continues to receive funds from IPP and the U.S. Department of State, under a parallel program known as the International Science and Technology Centers (ISTC). Vector's programs are still "too sensitive to discuss," say former officials, who voice concern that the State Department has provided general support funds which Vector can use for whatever purpose it chooses.
These funds were awarded Vector despite U.S. government awareness that the institute is currently developing new biological weapons for the Russian military, (GRRRRRR!!!) including a new strain of German measles that creates AIDS-like symptoms in a matter of days. A Vector researcher went to Iran on a contract approved by the Russian government, the GAO discovered, at the same time that Vector was receiving U.S. taxpayer grants, ostensibly to develop new vaccines. And according to Alibek, who published a chilling insider's account of Russia's secret biological weapons programs earlier this year (Biohazard: The Chilling True Story of the Largest Covert Biological Weapons Program in the World, Random House, $24-95), ]Vector scientists have recently succeeded in introducing a gene from Ebola into the smallpox Virus to create "a smallpox-Ebola weapon."
Obolensk, a sister organization, to Vector, located in the Moscow suburbs, is also receiving ISTC grants and is developing a genetically enhanced variant of Anthrax resistant to all known vaccinations--the ultimate in biological warfare. "These institutes are definitely beyond the pale," said Zachary Davis, a nuclear analyst for the Congressional Research Service."
===
And he concludes article with these ominous words:
"We have been lucky so far, but the Clinton administration's piecemeal response to the momentous challenge created by the end of the Cold War will face far greater scrutiny after the first nuclear (OR BIO!!!) terrorist bomb goes off on Main Street, and Americans realize that it could have been prevented.
Praying & asking humbly for DIVINE intervention, TRUTH and JUSTICE!!!
Edit to fix underline problem - duh!
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CCHF
First, here's the lowdown on CCHF from the WHO. It has been out there a while, albeit the timng is most unfortunate. I's have t haul out my atlas & see how close the outbreak is to major mountain passes & other supply lines. Diseases is gonna be a major consideration if 'we' land anyone in this region. As many have poited out, hygiene is of pretty low priority when you're ducking Stingers, Taliban enforcers & whatever else is coming down the pike. This country, this region has been engaging in armed conflict(s) a loong time.
CCHF is rumoured to have had its pathogenicity 'improved' by Biopreparat, according to Dr. Alibek. I say rumoured because unless it comes from 3 independant sources, I ain't buying as gospel truth; ever.
Since 9/11, I can't help the feeling that the horrific events on that specific day were simply phase one. Imagine if it was simply a plot to raise money through 'short selling' to finance a really HUGE campaign... scary. Anyway, my major fear is that if the extremists feel pushed to near extinction, they WILL deploy a weapon of mass destruction; probably bio or chem. Exact casualty counts wouldn't matter much. Look at the uncounted casualties already since 9/11.
Who's sleeping well? Who still feels the heart rate leap when sirens are heard? When I'm out walking, I'm either wearing a 'thousand yard stare' or am feeling super paranoid. The pleasure I take in simple, day to day pleasures seems to be a real effort to attain now. Made a perfect apple pie last night. Had a major hunger on... ate half of it; something that normal would make me feel spoiled & self-indulgent. It almost felt like work.
But in the event that anyone plans to use bios, there's so many they can use for which we have no vaccines or treatments; nothing but common sense, good self-quaratine practices, prayer & luck. In many cases, it's still a crap shoot.
As to the 'think tank' comments... call it what you want. We all have various levels of education, experiences & talents. Some ARE experts, be they 'officially' experts or self-educated. It's too easy to backcheck someone claiming to 'know' something. Facts can always be found to back up posts, if they are as claimed... fact.
Wether we're a bunch of whacked out, paranoid survivalists, realistic observers & interpreters of current events & bored idiots needing a life, we all come here for a reason... even those who love to sneer at a great many posts.
Positives here? I love the sense of community so visible among such a disparate group of people. Few are at either extreme end of any spectrum, be it political, conspiracy theory, medico/business, education, faith, family values, etc. You try hard enough, you can find one square foot of common ground with almost anyone here. That's good enough for me & if someone consistantly leaves me feeling like in the spring loaded pissed off position, I just skip their posts for a while.
We're all wrong once in a while & we all come up with intriguing ideas or new points of view on old issues once in a while. This remind me of old college bull sessions; only now we're older, smarter, more experienced & less convinced that we're right on everything.
We're facing some pretty powerful enemies out there. Oh they've always been there, but they're sure in our face these days. I'm saving my pitched battles for the REAL bad guys; not compatriots I occasionally spat with. Cause they're the ones I'll eventually be standing beside, fighting on...
First, here's the lowdown on CCHF from the WHO. It has been out there a while, albeit the timng is most unfortunate. I's have t haul out my atlas & see how close the outbreak is to major mountain passes & other supply lines. Diseases is gonna be a major consideration if 'we' land anyone in this region. As many have poited out, hygiene is of pretty low priority when you're ducking Stingers, Taliban enforcers & whatever else is coming down the pike. This country, this region has been engaging in armed conflict(s) a loong time.
CCHF is rumoured to have had its pathogenicity 'improved' by Biopreparat, according to Dr. Alibek. I say rumoured because unless it comes from 3 independant sources, I ain't buying as gospel truth; ever.
Since 9/11, I can't help the feeling that the horrific events on that specific day were simply phase one. Imagine if it was simply a plot to raise money through 'short selling' to finance a really HUGE campaign... scary. Anyway, my major fear is that if the extremists feel pushed to near extinction, they WILL deploy a weapon of mass destruction; probably bio or chem. Exact casualty counts wouldn't matter much. Look at the uncounted casualties already since 9/11.
Who's sleeping well? Who still feels the heart rate leap when sirens are heard? When I'm out walking, I'm either wearing a 'thousand yard stare' or am feeling super paranoid. The pleasure I take in simple, day to day pleasures seems to be a real effort to attain now. Made a perfect apple pie last night. Had a major hunger on... ate half of it; something that normal would make me feel spoiled & self-indulgent. It almost felt like work.
But in the event that anyone plans to use bios, there's so many they can use for which we have no vaccines or treatments; nothing but common sense, good self-quaratine practices, prayer & luck. In many cases, it's still a crap shoot.
As to the 'think tank' comments... call it what you want. We all have various levels of education, experiences & talents. Some ARE experts, be they 'officially' experts or self-educated. It's too easy to backcheck someone claiming to 'know' something. Facts can always be found to back up posts, if they are as claimed... fact.
Wether we're a bunch of whacked out, paranoid survivalists, realistic observers & interpreters of current events & bored idiots needing a life, we all come here for a reason... even those who love to sneer at a great many posts.
Positives here? I love the sense of community so visible among such a disparate group of people. Few are at either extreme end of any spectrum, be it political, conspiracy theory, medico/business, education, faith, family values, etc. You try hard enough, you can find one square foot of common ground with almost anyone here. That's good enough for me & if someone consistantly leaves me feeling like in the spring loaded pissed off position, I just skip their posts for a while.
We're all wrong once in a while & we all come up with intriguing ideas or new points of view on old issues once in a while. This remind me of old college bull sessions; only now we're older, smarter, more experienced & less convinced that we're right on everything.
We're facing some pretty powerful enemies out there. Oh they've always been there, but they're sure in our face these days. I'm saving my pitched battles for the REAL bad guys; not compatriots I occasionally spat with. Cause they're the ones I'll eventually be standing beside, fighting on...
2Trish
Veteran Member
Thank you JB.
Ceebee, per a previous thread, if the government can't take care of itself, how do you expect it to take care of the general public? Which leaves us to our own resourse, this forum being one, to find out every bit of information we can. We sort it out, try to make some sense of it and make decisions that we pray are right.
The general public would not know where to find some of the info posted here. This is group of generous people who have passed on reports, breaking news, knowledge they have acquired. Most of us are most grateful.
As for as I'm concerned they can call themselves any d-m thing they want. Being PC shouldn't be the issue right now.
Ceebee, per a previous thread, if the government can't take care of itself, how do you expect it to take care of the general public? Which leaves us to our own resourse, this forum being one, to find out every bit of information we can. We sort it out, try to make some sense of it and make decisions that we pray are right.
The general public would not know where to find some of the info posted here. This is group of generous people who have passed on reports, breaking news, knowledge they have acquired. Most of us are most grateful.
As for as I'm concerned they can call themselves any d-m thing they want. Being PC shouldn't be the issue right now.
Greg Sanderson
Inactive
Someone mentioned a concern about our military's hygiene when they are Afghanistan. The Army Survival Manual, in the section on WMD, most emphatically emphasizes the need for good hygiene at all times. This is something the average GI might forget about under duress, but the soldiers in Afghanistan aren't your average GI, they are highly disciplined, highly trained, and probably in a lot of cases experienced Special Forces people of one branch or another. I suspect they are well aware of the need for good hygiene and also well-educated on bio and chemical agents. There may be a concern later if we actually get regular ground troops in there (I hope we don't), but I don't think there is much to worry about with the guys that are in there now. I hope and pray.
Kathleen
Kathleen
Still don't like the term...
'College bull sessions" reminds me of what these infernal yap fests consisted of. We were so filled with self-imprtance, self assuredlness & self-righteousness. We still saw the world as painted in black & white, recognizing maybe 2-3 shades of grey. We, many of us, were more concerned with showing others how much we knew, how brilliant we were that we spent more time formulating our next point, question, answer than actually LISTENING to what anyone else had to say.
And a lot of what we spouted WAS pure bull. I'd like to think that here & now, most are genuinely interested in exploring new ideas, new POV, wether or not they embrace them & be flexible & willing enough to stretch their personal limits... at least mentally.
Maybe 'think tank' sounds too self-aggrandizing. But college bull session sounds too much like a bunch of first year know it alls who really know nothing & ain;t smart enough to know even that. If anything here, we're bonded by the burden of awareness of how little anyone one of us can know by themselves...
'College bull sessions" reminds me of what these infernal yap fests consisted of. We were so filled with self-imprtance, self assuredlness & self-righteousness. We still saw the world as painted in black & white, recognizing maybe 2-3 shades of grey. We, many of us, were more concerned with showing others how much we knew, how brilliant we were that we spent more time formulating our next point, question, answer than actually LISTENING to what anyone else had to say.
And a lot of what we spouted WAS pure bull. I'd like to think that here & now, most are genuinely interested in exploring new ideas, new POV, wether or not they embrace them & be flexible & willing enough to stretch their personal limits... at least mentally.
Maybe 'think tank' sounds too self-aggrandizing. But college bull session sounds too much like a bunch of first year know it alls who really know nothing & ain;t smart enough to know even that. If anything here, we're bonded by the burden of awareness of how little anyone one of us can know by themselves...