[GOV] Postponed Election in Case of Attack?

Roger Thornhill

Some irascible old curmudgeon
http://www.indystar.com/articles/2/161787-7102-P.html


Election crisis plan being explored


By George Edmonson
Cox News Service
July 12, 2004


WASHINGTON -- U.S. election officials are exploring what should be done if a terrorist attack or other disaster disrupted the November election, one top official said Sunday.

"We're trying to find out what happens with the presidential election if a state or some major urban area cannot have its election," said Gracia Hillman, vice chairman of the U.S. Election Assistance Commission.

She said the commission raised the issue in April and then again several weeks ago with the Department of Homeland Security.

Newsweek reported Sunday that Homeland Security has asked the Justice Department what would be required to postpone the election if an attack took place. In its July 19 issue, according to its Web site, Newsweek reports that Homeland Security last week asked the Justice Department to review a letter from U.S. Election Assistance Commission Chairman DeForest B. Soaries Jr. that says no agency has the legal authority to cancel and reschedule a federal election.

Soaries said that Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge must seek emergency legislation from Congress giving his agency the power to delay the election, Newsweek reported. Ridge and other officials have said they have no information about specific terrorist plots, the magazine said.

Hillman said the commission, established in 2002 to be a resource on U.S. election procedures, wants measures in place so that election workers and voters would know what to expect.

"We feel the responsible thing is to have a plan," Hillman said. That would help avoid the perception that a response to an event was being handled in a partisan manner, she said.

In addition to the threat of terrorism, Hillman said, a natural disaster could create havoc.

"I think the United States has been lucky it's not been tested on this," she said. "We've had bad weather on Election Day, but not to the point where a significant portion of a state or an entire state couldn't report its election result."

Bloomberg News contributed to this report.
 

Senses On

Inactive
Roger,

That one blew me away on the morning news, too. Since when did "election officials" (two-party movers and shakers) get to toss the Constitution? But, I gueess the executive orders have been in place for a long time for "states of emergency," from the feds, through the states, down to the local "governing bodies."

Three years of propaganda and "we" are ready to surrender it all. Big, tough, brave Americans. Get them jihadists! Heh.

I truly didn't know we had come this far. Then I started reading the board this morning and had it driven home as to exactly why we have.
 

FREEBIRD

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Even some of my favorite DGI's are starting to sit up and take notice.

Seems to me the best response to foreign terrorists is to hold elections no matter what.

The best response to domestic terrorists is for local election commissioners, on direstion from the governors, to hold elections no matter what. (Of course they won't.)
 

Brooks

Membership Revoked
This is a dupe post (or at least topic).

Esso, I explained on the other thread that there was a special election going on in a part of Massachusetts on 9/11/01. There was very much concern that day, AND PERFECTLY VALID CONCERN, about whether the election should be postponed. It became a political football between the camp that wanted voters to feel safe and to go to the polls (and therefore to consider postponing the election) and the camp that wanted to call the first camp a bunch of wusses. It would really have been better if there had been a procedure in place because postponing or not postponing could have had a major impact in a close race.
 

chimpuat

Inactive
can any other star wars fans back me up on this?

is it just me or is this whole situation starting to sound like the plot to star wars episodes 1 and 2?

i've heard that george lucas' inspiration for the emperor in the star wars movies came from his research of adolf hitler and his rise to power.

from the movies, you have:

- a senator (palpatine) who secretly manipulates people and events to create a 'threat' to the republic

- when the threat begins to increase, he convinces everyone to remove the current bureaucracy, and becomes the chancellor himself

- when the threat of war looms (as a result of his manipulation), he convinces everyone to grant him emergency war powers, in effect making him the absolute ruler (or emperor, if you will).

while i appreciate the fact that the threat of a terrorist attack is real, i don't for one minute feel comfortable with the current administration setting new precedent to remain in power as a result of it.
 

night driver

ESFP adrift in INTJ sea
Understand that the reportage CURRENTLY indicates that the folks understand that it would probably require a Constitutional Amendment to the US Constitution AS WELL AS 50 MORE, one for each State.....
 

closet squirrel

Veteran Member
potponed election

This was on Fox news last night. Pretty much what the first article says.

They really are trying to prepare people for something...wish I knew what.
 

Annmarie

Inactive
Wait a minute! I thought we were supposed to go on living our lives, go on about our business, just be vigilant and watch everybody who looks suspicious and run and report them. We are not to disrupt our lives in anyway and continue spending and buying like good little sheep, BUT now we hear our government will do just the opposite and maybe cancel elections, get a constitutional ammendment and all the while telling us it is wrong to give into terrorists. I don't get it....do as I say, not as I do explains it pretty well.
 

Gingergirl

Veteran Member
"Not if the pres declares a "state of emergency" and it goes uncontested by the sheeple."

I do believe that a State of Emergency contested by the popluation is an insurrection...and that would be a State of Emergency...just ask President Lincoln.
 

BugoutBear

Inactive
Senses On said:
Not if the pres declares a "state of emergency" and it goes uncontested by the sheeple.

He is after all a war time president.

Weren't there several people on this board convinced Clinton was going to do a similar thing at the end of his term?

:hmm:

Edited to Add: I really should read ahead. . .right Chairborne?

BugoutBear
 

lookinup

Deceased
Hmmmmmm, this is a MAZE to say the least! If Bush is behind in the polls & we take a hit some may say it was a "setup." Now what would we think if Bush was AHEAD in the polls & we still took a hit????? I think the terrorists WILL strike regardless of what the polls are saying. It would probably be better for Bush if they hit when he was ahead in the polls. Ohhhh gaaads, my brain is NOT meant for this kind of MENTAL STRESS! :shr:
 

Bearded Weirdo

Inactive
Hillman said the commission, established in 2002 to be a resource on U.S. election procedures, wants measures in place so that election workers and voters would know what to expect.

We feel the responsible thing is to have a plan," Hillman said. That would help avoid the perception that a response to an event was being handled in a partisan manner, she said.

In addition to the threat of terrorism, Hillman said, a natural disaster could create havoc.

"I think the United States has been lucky it's not been tested on this," she said. "We've had bad weather on Election Day, but not to the point where a significant portion of a state or an entire state couldn't report its election result."

Oh my goodness, the government is doing contingency planning, this must mean Bush is going to fly more planes into skyscrapers and parachute at the last minute.

Seriously folks, what if there was a legitimate terrorsist attack in a certain location two days before the election? Do you honestly think that the election would be able to be held in that area? If not, then the voters in that area would be disenfranchised. According to the Michael Moore crowd it would be Bush's fault that these voters would be disenfrachised, but the terrorist attack would also be Bush's fault because Kerry is a Democrat and would never do such a thing.
 

bigwavedave

Deceased
as if it matters who is the next potus.

i like W. he gives us plenty to talk about. K would be totally boring.

We feel the responsible thing is to have a plan," Hillman said. That would help avoid the perception that a response to an event was being handled in a partisan manner, she said.

the only good plan for that is to hold the elections regardless.
 

fairbanksb

Freedom Isn't Free
bigwavedave said:
as if it matters who is the next potus.

i like W. he gives us plenty to talk about. K would be totally boring.

We feel the responsible thing is to have a plan," Hillman said. That would help avoid the perception that a response to an event was being handled in a partisan manner, she said.

the only good plan for that is to hold the elections regardless.

Depending on the type of attack, how could you hold the elections, regardless? Let's suppose a 1Kt suitcase nuke explodes in a major metropolitan area. Say NYC, Miami, SF. How many people in those cities do you expect to go to the polls to vote, that day? In fact, how many voters in any city would go out to vote that day? I think people would be panicking. Hitting the shelters or the stores or just plain staying home, glued to the news networks.
Elections would have to be posponed for a set amount of time. They should write a plan that mandates that elections be posponed for no longer than X amount of days or weeks.
 

Yours Truly

Veteran Member
My question is "why" are they waiting until NOW to bring this up? Congress will soon be out of session! I don't think Tom Ridge should have that power - only Congress. Seems to me they should have thought about this right after 911.
 

bigwavedave

Deceased
How many people in those cities do you expect to go to the polls to vote, that day? In fact, how many voters in any city would go out to vote that day? I think people would be panicking. Hitting the shelters or the stores or just plain staying home, glued to the news networks.

while they are out prepping, they can drop in at the polling place. it might be best just not to watch TV that day, and by all means, stay away from here! now if the entire country goes up in an inferno, perhaps a later date would be better. anyway, we don't elect the potus and VP. that's the job of the electoral college which does so later.

Elections would have to be posponed for a set amount of time. They should write a plan that mandates that elections be posponed for no longer than X amount of days or weeks.

it will take more than a plan. the USC will need to be amended. as YT mentioned, congress was just too busy to consider this. or something.
 

BL225128

Inactive
It really doesn't matter for Bush whether or not the elections would be postponed in the event of a catastrophic terror attack. If the elections were delayed, the resident Bush haters on this board would be carping about the evvvvvvvvvvvil Bush, Cheney and the end of representative gov't.

If elections went ahead, the Bush haters would be carping about how the evvvvvvvvvvvvil Bush denied the rights of the citizens in the big cities their 'say' in the election. This would especially be true if the Republicans picked up a couple of states that would likely go to Lurch F'n Kerry and the Ambulance Chaser.
 

Bearded Weirdo

Inactive
Bl225128, this is exactly what the Bush bhers desire. Remember these are the same people who put "Bush Knew" bumper-stickers on their cars (speaking about some forehand knowledge Bush supposedly had of Sept 11th), then also go on clamoring about how Bush looked like a "Deer frozen in the headlights" because he was so surprised and clueless about the terrorist attacks. Apparently they are oblivious to the contradiction.
 

Ragnarok

On and On, South of Heaven
If the elections were delayed, the resident Bush haters on this board would be carping about the evvvvvvvvvvvil Bush, Cheney and the end of representative gov't.

If the elections are delayed due to a "state of national emergency", I don't know about others, but *MY* days of posting on internet forums would be over!!!

As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there's a twilight where everything remains seemingly unchanged, and it is in such twilight that we must be aware of change in the air, however slight, lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness.
-William O. Douglas-

We are in that twilight, right now. Now is the time to alert people to the threats and dangers to our freedoms.

Anyone dumb enough to continue "Bush Bashing" after such an event can expect a knock on the door late at night...
 

Pete/ME

Inactive
Well, lets look at the Constitution:

From Article II Section 1
Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.


The Congress may determine the Time of choosing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the United States.
Amendment XII
Amendment XII - Choosing the President, Vice-President. Ratified 6/15/1804.
The Electors shall meet in their respective states, and vote by ballot for President and Vice-President, one of whom, at least, shall not be an inhabitant of the same state with themselves; they shall name in their ballots the person voted for as President, and in distinct ballots the person voted for as Vice-President, and they shall make distinct lists of all persons voted for as President, and of all persons voted for as Vice-President and of the number of votes for each, which lists they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the seat of the government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate;

The President of the Senate shall, in the presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the certificates and the votes shall then be counted;

The person having the greatest Number of votes for President, shall be the President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed; and if no person have such majority, then from the persons having the highest numbers not exceeding three on the list of those voted for as President, the House of Representatives shall choose immediately, by ballot, the President. But in choosing the President, the votes shall be taken by states, the representation from each state having one vote; a quorum for this purpose shall consist of a member or members from two-thirds of the states, and a majority of all the states shall be necessary to a choice. And if the House of Representatives shall not choose a President whenever the right of choice shall devolve upon them, before the fourth day of March next following, then the Vice-President shall act as President, as in the case of the death or other constitutional disability of the President.

The person having the greatest number of votes as Vice-President, shall be the Vice-President, if such number be a majority of the whole number of Electors appointed, and if no person have a majority, then from the two highest numbers on the list, the Senate shall choose the Vice-President; a quorum for the purpose shall consist of two- thirds of the whole number of Senators, and a majority of the whole number shall be necessary to a choice. But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.
Amendment XX Sections 3 and 4
3. If, at the time fixed for the beginning of the term of the President, the President elect shall have died, the Vice President elect shall become President. If a President shall not have been chosen before the time fixed for the beginning of his term, or if the President elect shall have failed to qualify, then the Vice President elect shall act as President until a President shall have qualified; and the Congress may by law provide for the case wherein neither a President elect nor a Vice President elect shall have qualified, declaring who shall then act as President, or the manner in which one who is to act shall be selected, and such person shall act accordingly until a President or Vice President shall have qualified.

4. The Congress may by law provide for the case of the death of any of the persons from whom the House of Representatives may choose a President whenever the right of choice shall have devolved upon them, and for the case of the death of any of the persons from whom the Senate may choose a Vice President whenever the right of choice shall have devolved upon them.
The long and the short of it? There is no Constitutional requirement that elections take place in November, only that the elections take place on the same day nationwide. (Article II) Therefore, IMO, an Act of Congress can provide for an alternate date.

Amendment XII is included to remind people we don't vote for the President, we vote for the electors. The actual Presidential election doesn't take place until December. Therefore, IMO, the scheduled elections could concievably be pushed back to anytime prior to the when the Electoral College meets. In the case that elections actually get cancelled and electors cannot for whatever reason be chosen, the House of Representatives would select the next President.

Amendment XX is included to show the line of succession should terrorists assassinate the President-elect. (God forbid.) For example, if Kerry and Edwards were elected President and Vice-President, then subsequently die, I read this as Cheney being President until Congress can select a President if no President has been selected by January 20. Likewise if Bush and Cheney were elected, then subsequently die, by the line of succession:
Speaker of the House of Representatives (Dennis Hastert)
President pro tempore of the Senate (Ted Stevens)
Secretary of State (Colin Powell)
Secretary of the Treasury (John W. Snow)
Secretary of Defense (Donald Rumsfeld)
Attorney General (John Ashcroft)
Secretary of Homeland Security (Tom Ridge)
Secretary of the Interior (Gale Norton)
Secretary of Agriculture (Ann M. Veneman)
Secretary of Commerce (Donald L. Evans)
Secretary of Labor (Elaine L. Chao, ineligible: see note below)
Secretary of Health and Human Services (Tommy G. Thompson)
Secretary of Housing and Urban Development (Alphonso Jackson)
Secretary of Transportation (Norman Yoshio Mineta)
Secretary of Energy (Spencer Abraham)
Secretary of Education (Roderick Paige)
Secretary of Veterans Affairs (Anthony J. Principi)
(source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_line_of_succession )
 
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