ECON Gold and Silver news

[Hfcomms]

LOL

I am actually an economist.... yep 4 year degree.......


Now that we have had our laugh, the first thing that comes to mind is you used the word China. China = lies.....

Always!!

So if China said they 100 tons of gold, they are lying. They might have 1 ton of gold. So that would screw things up royally.

Overall the reason gold has worked when it was used directly or indirectly ( gold backed ) was that there was enough gold to allow society to do so.

We no longer have enough gold to run the nation, much less the world. This applies to the world as a whole. Add in plat and silver and you still don't have enough. At least not at current prices.

You would have to add several zeros to the value 1st and then deflate the currency by several zeros.

IF you were able to pull that off, then it might stand a chance but you would need to have the currency exchangable for gold and silver as it was once possible in the USA. IF not, then speculation would destroy the currency at some point as NO ONE TRUSTS the politicians do to the right thing.

The bottom line of any economic system is the trust people have in the currency. You build that and pine cones can be the currency. It would not matter one whit. TRUST is the basis of all economic exchanges. No trust no economy.

Sorry for repeating myself, but it is late. ....

There is always enough gold but not at the current price. Look at the central bank’s gold revaluation accounts (GRA’s) that all the central banks have. In order to cover the debts there is a massive gold revaluation coming in the future and that is why the CB’s hold gold and are buying it voraciously (at least in the east) hand over fist the last few years.

While I don’t think gold coin is going to circulate as currency I do see eventually after the fiat CBDC’s in the west are seen as an abject failure that the central banks are going to be forced to include a blockchain verifiable gold component into the digital currencies and that is what the BRIC’s are working on right now. A commodity based CBDC of which gold will play a major role for settlement along with oil and other commodities.

Nations worldwide are sick of giving something for nothing. They give us something tangible (commodities/goods etc) and get nothing tangible (paper currency notes) in return. The game we’ve been playing is about up.

 

[Southside]

There is always enough gold but not at the current price. Look at the central bank’s gold revaluation accounts (GRA’s) that all the central banks have. In order to cover the debts there is a massive gold revaluation coming in the future and that is why the CB’s hold gold and are buying it voraciously (at least in the east) hand over fist the last few years.

While I don’t think gold coin is going to circulate as currency I do see eventually after the fiat CBDC’s in the west are seen as an abject failure that the central banks are going to be forced to include a blockchain verifiable gold component into the digital currencies and that is what the BRIC’s are working on right now. A commodity based CBDC of which gold will play a major role for settlement along with oil and other commodities.

Nations worldwide are sick of giving something for nothing. They give us something tangible (commodities/goods etc) and get nothing tangible (paper currency notes) in return. The game we’ve been playing is about up.

Actually is amazing it went on this long.

 

[Slydersan]

Just my thoughts. If things are really to fall apart this year, possibly as early as next month, swapping out silver at ratios that have nothing to do with with physical realities (coming out of the ground now at SEVEN to ONE) it could end up being penny foolish and pound wise to trade silver back to gold when both may soon become something like un-obtainium (similar to Bitcoin right now; un-obtainium to 99% of mankind) and shortly before silver starts appreciating to more of a physical reality and no longer based on the manipulations of the delusional psycho's running the West.

Just a comment on the bolded part above. I'm not sure why you or anyone believes that. I'd argue the exact opposite - 99% of people on the planet can buy Bitcoin. In fact probably more obtainable to more people on the planet than even fractional gold. All anyone really needs is a smartphone with a so called hot-wallet (used for storing Bitcoin).

You do NOT have to buy Bitcoin in whole number increments. One(1) Bitcoin can be broken down into 100,000,000 parts called Satoshis (named after the Bitcoin inventor(s)) Kind of like a $dollar can be broken down in to cents...but in much smaller increments. Basically you can buy any amount of Bitcoin you want. You want to buy $10 worth... go for it. Want to buy the equivalent of 1/2 a Bitcoin, way outta my league but be my guest. Instead of stopping buy the Quickie-Mart on your way home from cashing your paycheck and buying $20 of lottery tickets, use one of the thousands of Bitcoin ATMs (lots of times located in those same stores) and buy $20 of bitcoin. (of course you should do your research first like anything money related.) There are fees/premiums involved just like in precious metals, cuz nothing in life is free. Buy it and stack it along side and just like your PMs. Don't worry about what the price is. You should be in all of this for the long haul, not day to day trading.

 

[Southside]

Well, we all knew the "beat down" was coming.
In the end, we win.

THE GREAT AWAKENING!

 

[Johnny Twoguns]

Just a comment on the bolded part above. I'm not sure why you or anyone believes that. I'd argue the exact opposite - 99% of people on the planet can buy Bitcoin. In fact probably more obtainable to more people on the planet than even fractional gold. All anyone really needs is a smartphone with a so called hot-wallet (used for storing Bitcoin).

You do NOT have to buy Bitcoin in whole number increments. One(1) Bitcoin can be broken down into 100,000,000 parts called Satoshis (named after the Bitcoin inventor(s)) Kind of like a $dollar can be broken down in to cents...but in much smaller increments. Basically you can buy any amount of Bitcoin you want. You want to buy $10 worth... go for it. Want to buy the equivalent of 1/2 a Bitcoin, way outta my league but be my guest. Instead of stopping buy the Quickie-Mart on your way home from cashing your paycheck and buying $20 of lottery tickets, use one of the thousands of Bitcoin ATMs (lots of times located in those same stores) and buy $20 of bitcoin. (of course you should do your research first like anything money related.) There are fees/premiums involved just like in precious metals, cuz nothing in life is free. Buy it and stack it along side and just like your PMs. Don't worry about what the price is. You should be in all of this for the long haul, not day to day trading.

Thanks for the reply and it is timely. You can also go to Dubai and buy gold at thousandths of an ounce. However one should also add into the accounting that some big names that do talk to the heads of government and bankers and central bankers, like Rickards, have stated that bitcoin is hot air; which says to me that at some point it is going to be taken down and the TPTB will simply remove the ability to turn it into cash. But for now run with it, why not?

 

[Wyominglarry]

If you do not hold your PMs in your hand they are worthless to you.

 

[West]

As long as my 100% gold, 24 karat, .9999 solid gold .10 mm. thick over clad gold Eagles retain their value...

Buyer beware!

 

[Great Northwet]

As long as my 100% gold, 24 karat, .9999 solid gold .10 mm. thick over clad gold Eagles retain their value...

Buyer beware!

You said "clad", uhh wait a minute...

 

[West]

I've also heard "base" or "over CU" as well as "clad".

Just musing.

 

[Great Northwet]

I just remember late night infomercials selling "Clad" coins and wondering how many people were getting ripped off thinking they were buying real gold at a bargain.

Definitely drifting the thread, but does anyone remember Snuggie's? It was just a bathrobe turned backwards so you could lie on the couch and watch tv while wearing it. In the first 6 months they sold 2 million units!
This is how stupid, people really are.

Now there is a Venezuelan guy who has 500k followers telling all the Illegals that they can simply walk into unoccupied homes and seize them. How many Illegals are going to fall for that in 6 months? 2 million-it's the theory of numbers thing.

 

[West]

Any lurkers/members who are afraid to buy PMs because they might be fake... ask questions, get informed, research and ask here, there's plenty of know it alls here!

 

[Great Northwet]

Any lurkers/members who are afraid to buy PMs because they might be fake... ask questions, get informed, research and ask here, there's plenty of know it alls here!

Adding to that. Stay away from Morgans. Lots advertised recently {on tv} but stay away from them. Over 2 million fakes in the USA alone. It's easy to spot them if you know what to look for, though.

 

[Bad Hand]

I did but I paid for them with a credit card and I got my money back. These so called Silver Eagles were so good they almost fooled a dealer.

 

[Hfcomms]

Adding to that. Stay away from Morgans. Lots advertised recently {on tv} but stay away from them. Over 2 million fakes in the USA alone. It's easy to spot them if you know what to look for, though.

Always buy from a reputable dealer and if you buy circulated Morgans you are almost always safe. A coin with a $10 premium is rarely counterfeit as there is little money to be made. It is the rare ‘mint state’ Morgans that you are offered at a cheaper price than what they should be that you have to be aware of.

 

[bracketquant]

Just a comment on the bolded part above. I'm not sure why you or anyone believes that. I'd argue the exact opposite - 99% of people on the planet can buy Bitcoin. In fact probably more obtainable to more people on the planet than even fractional gold. All anyone really needs is a smartphone with a so called hot-wallet (used for storing Bitcoin).

You do NOT have to buy Bitcoin in whole number increments. One(1) Bitcoin can be broken down into 100,000,000 parts called Satoshis (named after the Bitcoin inventor(s)) Kind of like a $dollar can be broken down in to cents...but in much smaller increments. Basically you can buy any amount of Bitcoin you want. You want to buy $10 worth... go for it. Want to buy the equivalent of 1/2 a Bitcoin, way outta my league but be my guest. Instead of stopping buy the Quickie-Mart on your way home from cashing your paycheck and buying $20 of lottery tickets, use one of the thousands of Bitcoin ATMs (lots of times located in those same stores) and buy $20 of bitcoin. (of course you should do your research first like anything money related.) There are fees/premiums involved just like in precious metals, cuz nothing in life is free. Buy it and stack it along side and just like your PMs. Don't worry about what the price is. You should be in all of this for the long haul, not day to day trading.

What happens when the Satoshis are broken down into 100,000,000 parts called Sucktoshis, and then the Sucktoshis are broken down into 100,000,000 parts called Shitoshis, and then the Shitoshis are broken down into 100,000,000 parts called...?

 

[Slydersan]

What happens when the Satoshis are broken down into 100,000,000 parts called Sucktoshis, and then the Sucktoshis are broken down into 100,000,000 parts called Shitoshis, and then the Shitoshis are broken down into 100,000,000 parts called...?

Then those that own them will be laughing all the way to the bank.

 

[Doc1]

And I think China IS going to go COMPLETELY digital...gold backed

I just coined this. This just came to me, original thought:

China reorders its Yen into a digital currency on a verifiable blockchain ledge technology. All Paper or bank account Yen get exchanged for new Chinese Digital Currency (CDC) by a certain date or VOID.. They can do this because they run the country.

They start with however much gold they have, we'll say 100 "units" and divide it by all of the CDC issued at that time. BAM each CDC has X backing BY GOLD. (They would have to vastly denominational for usage) which the govt an say it's "backed by" whether or not there could ever be "DEMAND" for the gold... the only way to exchanged a CDC is to BUY SOMETHING IN CHINA or FROM CHINA or hold on to it. It's value exchange goes up WHEN GOLD DOES, and the CDC is actually a "Share" of the Governments gold.. though it can never be redeemed.

This wouldn't effect their BRICS trading and I suspect it would cause other countries to begin "backing" their currency with gold, but basically only making it usable in house, promoting industry and growth...

c'mon economists, what are the problems with that system? Other than the fact the plebes get only 'ones and zeros" in exchange for their scraps of paper.. in a country the size of china, with it's own full manufacturing base, lacking only really oil... it could issue a gold back, non exchangeable CDC and "Force" everyone over?

Possble? Yay? nay?

The biggest problem I see with your proposed system is the lack of redemption ("It's value exchange goes up WHEN GOLD DOES, and the CDC is actually a "Share" of the Governments gold.. though it can never be redeemed.).

Any Gold-based system that does not include a redemption option is - IMHO - doomed to ultimate failure. If governments are not forced to redeem currency for Gold on demand, they will eventually cook the books and print too much currency, relative to the amount of Gold they hold.

Now, such as system could go on for a long time and would certainly be an improvement over what we have now, but the bottom line is that redemption is the key. The British Pound Sterling was one of the world's most successful hard money systems. Most people don't know this, but the British Pound was once actually a full pound of sterling silver and their paper notes could be instantly redeemed for a pound of the metal. Similarly, the British Sovereign - which is still produced - is nearly a quarter ounce of Gold and were once widely circulated around the world.

In principle, I have no problem with paper or digital currency, if they are backed by and redeemable in Gold or Silver. Unfortunately, no government (or central bank) wants their currency to be hobbled by the need to back it with metal.

That makes their thievery too difficult.

Best
Doc

 

[Southside]

Any Gold-based system that does not include a redemption option is - IMHO - doomed to ultimate failure. If governments are not forced to redeem currency for Gold on demand, they will eventually cook the books and print too much currency, relative to the amount of Gold they hold.

And that, right there is truth. MUST be redeemable. Even into silver.

 

[CaryC]

I know @Doc1 is speaking on a large scale government thing, but on a personal side Goldline will buy back anything they sell you.

Remember you are buying at retail and selling at wholesale prices. Like at a pawn shop.

 

[bracketquant]

Then those that own them will be laughing all the way to the bank.

I guess that you're clueless about supply and demand. With an infinite supply, value drops to zero.

Bitconners think that there is a finite supply, therefore the current value.

 

[Txkstew]

My stepson was telling me about these new fangled "bitcoins" years ago. I said it was nothing but a scam, even at a few dollars apiece. He kept saying I should buy some. He was broke at the time and couldn't get any, and I wasn't having anything to do with it. I still think it's a scam, but also sure wish I'd have bought in for a few.

 

[Southside]

My stepson was telling me about these new fangled "bitcoins" years ago. I said it was nothing but a scam, even at a few dollars apiece. He kept saying I should buy some. He was broke at the time and couldn't get any, and I wasn't having anything to do with it. I still think it's a scam, but also sure wish I'd have bought in for a few.

Hindsight being 20/20, we all do.

 

[Johnny Twoguns]

Actually is amazing it went on this long.

That is because the US controls Swift and basically controlled the BIS. Countries HAD to use the US dollar in trade and contracts.

BRIICS is ending that with their own systems (CHIPS?). The Russians have come out and said flat out they will destroy the Western controlled false commodities prices. By the end of this year? Doubtful. But the crash could occur this year.

It's going to suck for the West for the rest of this decade; on the other hand it might destroy the power of the Cabal which has grown into such a huge monstrous evil all based on made up money systems. I say might because guess who owns most of the gold in the West? Not the People. Not yet anyway.

 

[Southside]

on the other hand it might destroy the power of the Cabal which has grown into such a huge monstrous evil all based on made up money systems.

It will destroy them. Can you imagine the $ that it takes to run this corrupt organization?
Now, they are being cut-off from all the funds they stole to support the shenanigans. Think about it. No more Afghan poppy fields, no more big kickbacks from Ukraine, among others.

The Great Awakening draws closer.

 

[Johnny Twoguns]

And that, right there is truth. MUST be redeemable. Even into silver.

In Shanghai, right now, there is a gold/silver bourse when you CAN exchange Yuan for metal. You can do commerce with China, then take that out in gold/silver.

BRIICS are working towards destroying the West's corrupt control of the world's commodities.
Here is Andy Sheckman on the Silver Slayer YT channel. Half an hour long. First 20 minutes is on that, the last 10 are about silver scams going on about "collectables" and don't fall for them. SPOT is the spot.

I've also just watched a podcast w David Hunter, contrarian old guy who has followed the markets since the 80's. According to him we are in the crack up boom, he thinks silver could get to $60-75 in the boom, then everything crashes, and I mean really crashes. Then a long valley (time) of misery before all commodities start to go up, silver will get up to $500 on it's way to thousands. He is basing things on the past, and though he knows things are different this time, I'm not sure he is seeing the future correctly. It could be much worse with a cabal out to destroy 90% of mankind. He thinks the crash could come as early as late this year, or 2025 almost for sure.

Sheckman and Silver Slayer talking about the BRIICS two basket systems they are making (or already testing?).

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5F16S7CFEw

 

[Johnny Twoguns]

It will destroy them. Can you imagine the $ that it takes to run this corrupt organization?
Now, they are being cut-off from all the funds they stole to support the shenanigans. Think about it. No more Afghan poppy fields, no more big kickbacks from Ukraine, among others.

The Great Awakening draws closer.

Maybe. I think so too but one should look at all aspects and not just the ones they want. The top of the cabal has tentacles all over the world, for decades. And they might have strong if not controlling interests on all that gold that got shipped out of the West for the last 40-50 years. And gold will be the basis of the new systems, even according to the BRIICS. The only sure way their power gets destroyed is on the end of a rope.

 

[Johnny Twoguns]

What happens when the Satoshis are broken down into 100,000,000 parts called Sucktoshis, and then the Sucktoshis are broken down into 100,000,000 parts called Shitoshis, and then the Shitoshis are broken down into 100,000,000 parts called...?

I think that is coming until there is no more perceived value to bitcoin and all other cryptos with no real utility and when fiat crashes. Just using napkin math I really can see silver getting to $500 easily once it breaks 3 figures (how many QUADRILLIONS of US Frn's exits right now?). So $25 bucks right now, under my supposition, could eventually net you 20 times your investment (and not 5 yrs from now, more like 2yrs or less). If you jump into bitcoin right now, and you bought a bitcoin $70K x 20= $1,400,000. Webbots did see BC getting to $1M, but will it be confetti money by then? I for one strongly feel that when the US dollar turns, really turns into toilet paper then Bitcoin and most crypto's will have the same value; at least in this country (an the West).

 

[Southside]

I think that is coming until there is no more perceived value to bitcoin and all other cryptos with no real utility and when fiat crashes. Just using napkin math I really can see silver getting to $500 easily once it breaks 3 figures (how many QUADRILLIONS of US Frn's exits right now?). So $25 bucks right now, under my supposition, could eventually net you 20 times your investment (and not 5 yrs from now, more like 2yrs or less). If you jump into bitcoin right now, and you bought a bitcoin $70K x 20= $1,400,000. Webbots did see BC getting to $1M, but will it be confetti money by then? I for one strongly feel that when the US dollar turns, really turns into toilet paper then Bitcoin and most crypto's will have the same value; at least in this country (an the West).

I can agree with your thoughts there, except I think that Silver will eclipse any reasonable #'s we can come up with if the investing public EVER catches on.

 

[Slydersan]

I guess that you're clueless about supply and demand. With an infinite supply, value drops to zero.

Bitconners think that there is a finite supply, therefore the current value.

Um yeah. There is a finite supply. It is capped at 21 million. Do some research.

 

[Hacker]

LOL

I am actually an economist.... yep 4 year degree.......


Now that we have had our laugh, the first thing that comes to mind is you used the word China. China = lies.....

Always!!

So if China said they 100 tons of gold, they are lying. They might have 1 ton of gold. So that would screw things up royally.

Overall the reason gold has worked when it was used directly or indirectly ( gold backed ) was that there was enough gold to allow society to do so.

We no longer have enough gold to run the nation, much less the world. This applies to the world as a whole. Add in plat and silver and you still don't have enough. At least not at current prices.

You would have to add several zeros to the value 1st and then deflate the currency by several zeros.

IF you were able to pull that off, then it might stand a chance but you would need to have the currency exchangable for gold and silver as it was once possible in the USA. IF not, then speculation would destroy the currency at some point as NO ONE TRUSTS the politicians do to the right thing.

The bottom line of any economic system is the trust people have in the currency. You build that and pine cones can be the currency. It would not matter one whit. TRUST is the basis of all economic exchanges. No trust no economy.

Sorry for repeating myself, but it is late. ....

You sound like a Keynesian economist. Of the same ilk who runs the Fed.

 

[bracketquant]

Um yeah. There is a finite supply. It is capped at 21 million. Do some research.

A finite supply of whole, an infinite supply of pieces.

You...really...don't...get...it.

 

[Slydersan]

A finite supply of whole, an infinite supply of pieces.

You...really...don't...get...it.

I can take a dollar and divide it into 100 pieces-- cents. If you wanted to, and could find somebody to accept them, you could take each penny and divide it into 100 or however many pieces you want, and use those to buy stuff. That in no way affects the number of dollars that are out there.

The entire point of Bitcoin was to return the power of true money to the masses - to get people out of the Fiat/inflation system. People should buy/use Bitcoin for the same reason you buy/use PMs. Just like the "price" of gold - an ounce of gold doesn't change. Only the amount of Fiat currency it takes to buy it. Bitcoin is the same, a Bitcoin is a Bitcoin, and in fact it is getting harder and harder to get (the soon to happen "halving" that people are talking about).

There is no mechanism to further divide a Bitcoin into more than Satoshis. The thousands+ of independent people around the planet with PCs/servers that manage the Bitcoin network would have to agree to some kind of system to further divide it (I believe it takes a super majority, but I'm not exactly sure on that point). People have tried in the past to change things like the type of encryption/security/etc and every time the "network" has said NO - keep it the way it was devised. The people wanting a change then force what is called a hard-fork and some kind of alternate digital coins get created (and those are usually valued in cents because very few people want an imposter).

It seems like I AM the one who gets it.

 

[hiwall]

The US Dollar is commonly broken down to hundredths of a cent for tax purposes.

 

[Blacknarwhal]

Hindsight being 20/20, we all do.

Especially back in the early days. The Smokes2Much auction...10,000 bitcoin for $50, and it didn't move. Even back THEN I could have dropped $50 on a flier. But of course, I don't find out about bitcoin until it hits $4k.

 

[Tristan]

My stepson was telling me about these new fangled "bitcoins" years ago. I said it was nothing but a scam, even at a few dollars apiece. He kept saying I should buy some. He was broke at the time and couldn't get any, and I wasn't having anything to do with it. I still think it's a scam, but also sure wish I'd have bought in for a few.

Even a Dutch-Style Tulip craze can make some people rich; the trick is getting in at the right time, and more importantly getting out at the right time...


(Not saying BTC is a Tulip craze - though it has crossed my mind on occasion...)

 

[Johnny Twoguns]

I can take a dollar and divide it into 100 pieces-- cents. If you wanted to, and could find somebody to accept them, you could take each penny and divide it into 100 or however many pieces you want, and use those to buy stuff. That in no way affects the number of dollars that are out there.

The entire point of Bitcoin was to return the power of true money to the masses - to get people out of the Fiat/inflation system. People should buy/use Bitcoin for the same reason you buy/use PMs. Just like the "price" of gold - an ounce of gold doesn't change. Only the amount of Fiat currency it takes to buy it. Bitcoin is the same, a Bitcoin is a Bitcoin, and in fact it is getting harder and harder to get (the soon to happen "halving" that people are talking about).

There is no mechanism to further divide a Bitcoin into more than Satoshis. The thousands+ of independent people around the planet with PCs/servers that manage the Bitcoin network would have to agree to some kind of system to further divide it (I believe it takes a super majority, but I'm not exactly sure on that point). People have tried in the past to change things like the type of encryption/security/etc and every time the "network" has said NO - keep it the way it was devised. The people wanting a change then force what is called a hard-fork and some kind of alternate digital coins get created (and those are usually valued in cents because very few people want an imposter).

It seems like I AM the one who gets

I know @Doc1 is speaking on a large scale government thing, but on a personal side Goldline will buy back anything they sell you.

Remember you are buying at retail and selling at wholesale prices. Like at a pawn shop.

Be awful silly to be selling anything right now on the cusp of a giant bull market in pm's.

 

[20Gauge]

You sound like a Keynesian economist. Of the same ilk who runs the Fed.

Hardly

I believe in metals should be the basis for a currency, but we do need to look at reality also.

 

[alchemike]

I guess that you're clueless about supply and demand. With an infinite supply, value drops to zero.

Bitconners think that there is a finite supply, therefore the current value.

Unfortunately, you have essentially zero understanding of the Bitcoin protocol.
As was pointed out earlier in this thread, PMs are only as scarce as their price allows.
Bitcoin is the ONLY asset available that has absolute scarcity.
And for those with legitimate concern about fake PMs, you cannot fake Bitcoin.

 

[alchemike]

The great majority of Bitcoin critics here on TB2K fall under category 3.
Take the time to learn and understand it.

 

[Southside]

Especially back in the early days. The Smokes2Much auction...10,000 bitcoin for $50, and it didn't move. Even back THEN I could have dropped $50 on a flier. But of course, I don't find out about bitcoin until it hits $4k.

I remember talking to my hacker son, 14 yrs old, bitcoin at 6.23.