WAR Germany has 'crossed red line' - Russia

Hfcomms

EN66iq

Germany has ‘crossed red line’ – Russia​

There will be no turning back after Berlin supplied arms to kill Russians, Moscow’s envoy says

Germany has ‘crossed red line’ – Russia

FILE PHOTO. German multiple launch rocket systems in action. ©P/F/H / ullstein bild via Getty Images

Germany has crossed a red line with Russia by sending arms to Ukraine, Moscow’s ambassador in Berlin said on Monday. The decision undermined decades of reconciliation since the end of World War II and the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union, the diplomat added.

“The very fact that the Ukrainian regime is being supplied with German-made lethal weapons, which are used not only against Russian military service members, but also the civilian population of Donbass, crosses the red line,”Ambassador Sergey Nechaev said in an interview with Izvestia newspaper.

He added that Berlin should have known better, “considering the moral and historic responsibility that Germany has before our people for the Nazi crimes.”

“They have crossed the Rubicon,”
Nechaev stated, using an idiom for passing the point of no return.

Berlin discarded its longstanding policy of not sending weapons into zones of armed conflict to join the US and other NATO allies in providing weapons to Ukraine. The German government says it has a moral responsibility to back Kiev so it can defend itself against Russia.

Germany also joined an effort by the EU to decouple the economies of member states from Russia’s. German businesses have been relying on cheap Russian natural gas for five decades, since before the Soviet Union collapsed.

German foreign minister visits Kiev
Read more
German foreign minister visits Kiev

The German government “has unilaterally acted to destroy bilateral relations [with Russia] that were unique in scale and depth and had been built over decades,” the Russian ambassador noted. “In essence, the post-war reconciliation of our nations and peoples is being eroded,” Nechaev said.

According to the diplomat, economic restrictions imposed on Russia over the Ukraine conflict have resulted in a sharp increase in utility bills, a surge in consumer prices, and a decrease in real incomes in Germany. Nechaev said the “sanctions war” against Moscow is being increasingly seen as “shooting yourself in the foot” in Germany, which has already faced protests over the cost-of-living crisis. The ambassador noted that Russia took no pleasure in seeing the damage, even if Berlin has itself to blame for it.

“We believe the ongoing processes to be Germany’s domestic issue, in which we do not get involved,” he said. “And we certainly are not in the habit of delivering pompous lectures, the likes of which the West constantly makes about Russians.”

Russia sent troops into Ukraine on February 24, citing Kiev’s failure to implement the Minsk agreements, designed to give the regions of Donetsk and Lugansk special status within the Ukrainian state. The protocols, brokered by Germany and France, were first signed in 2014. Former Ukrainian president Pyotr Poroshenko has since admitted that Kiev’s main goal was to use the ceasefire to buy time and “create powerful armed forces.”

In February 2022, the Kremlin recognized the Donbass republics as independent states and demanded that Ukraine officially declare itself a neutral country that will never join any Western military bloc. Kiev insists the Russian offensive was completely unprovoked.

 

GeneSD

Retired December 31 2022

Germany has ‘crossed red line’ – Russia​

There will be no turning back after Berlin supplied arms to kill Russians, Moscow’s envoy says

Germany has ‘crossed red line’ – Russia

FILE PHOTO. German multiple launch rocket systems in action. ©P/F/H / ullstein bild via Getty Images

Germany has crossed a red line with Russia by sending arms to Ukraine, Moscow’s ambassador in Berlin said on Monday. The decision undermined decades of reconciliation since the end of World War II and the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union, the diplomat added.

“The very fact that the Ukrainian regime is being supplied with German-made lethal weapons, which are used not only against Russian military service members, but also the civilian population of Donbass, crosses the red line,”Ambassador Sergey Nechaev said in an interview with Izvestia newspaper.

He added that Berlin should have known better, “considering the moral and historic responsibility that Germany has before our people for the Nazi crimes.”

“They have crossed the Rubicon,”
Nechaev stated, using an idiom for passing the point of no return.

Berlin discarded its longstanding policy of not sending weapons into zones of armed conflict to join the US and other NATO allies in providing weapons to Ukraine. The German government says it has a moral responsibility to back Kiev so it can defend itself against Russia.

Germany also joined an effort by the EU to decouple the economies of member states from Russia’s. German businesses have been relying on cheap Russian natural gas for five decades, since before the Soviet Union collapsed.

German foreign minister visits Kiev
Read more
German foreign minister visits Kiev
The German government “has unilaterally acted to destroy bilateral relations [with Russia] that were unique in scale and depth and had been built over decades,” the Russian ambassador noted. “In essence, the post-war reconciliation of our nations and peoples is being eroded,” Nechaev said.

According to the diplomat, economic restrictions imposed on Russia over the Ukraine conflict have resulted in a sharp increase in utility bills, a surge in consumer prices, and a decrease in real incomes in Germany. Nechaev said the “sanctions war” against Moscow is being increasingly seen as “shooting yourself in the foot” in Germany, which has already faced protests over the cost-of-living crisis. The ambassador noted that Russia took no pleasure in seeing the damage, even if Berlin has itself to blame for it.

“We believe the ongoing processes to be Germany’s domestic issue, in which we do not get involved,” he said. “And we certainly are not in the habit of delivering pompous lectures, the likes of which the West constantly makes about Russians.”

Russia sent troops into Ukraine on February 24, citing Kiev’s failure to implement the Minsk agreements, designed to give the regions of Donetsk and Lugansk special status within the Ukrainian state. The protocols, brokered by Germany and France, were first signed in 2014. Former Ukrainian president Pyotr Poroshenko has since admitted that Kiev’s main goal was to use the ceasefire to buy time and “create powerful armed forces.”

In February 2022, the Kremlin recognized the Donbass republics as independent states and demanded that Ukraine officially declare itself a neutral country that will never join any Western military bloc. Kiev insists the Russian offensive was completely unprovoked.


My sister and brother-in-law are in Germany and their news does not report what their government is doing to support Ukraine. I ask them questions about what we see and hear in the US about Germany and they have no idea of what is going on. We are not the only ones with fake news organizations.
 

Melodi

Disaster Cat
My housemate said that when the nuclear accident happened in Cherynoble, people in Western Germany were not told about it for over a week! Their family only found out from relatives in East Germany that managed to make a phone call to the West. That was before the internet, but German media is as controlled as any other, maybe more so.
 

TheSearcher

Are you sure about that?
My sister and brother-in-law are in Germany and their news does not report what their government is doing to support Ukraine. I ask them questions about what we see and hear in the US about Germany and they have no idea of what is going on. We are not the only ones with fake news organizations.
Shit, that gives me the willies. Most of us on TB2K are in America, so sure we focus on our dynamics. But whatever is being planned at the multinational level, it's obviously bigger than us. I knew that, but the practical demonstration of the fact is still alarming.
 

Red Baron

Paleo-Conservative
_______________
Berlin discarded its longstanding policy of not sending weapons into zones of armed conflict to join the US and other NATO allies in providing weapons to Ukraine. The German government says it has a moral responsibility to back Kiev so it can defend itself against Russia.
I was rather surprised to see Germany send weapons to Ukraine. I was expecting just monetary, logistic, and humanitarian aid.

Germany took a very big step by shipping weapons to Ukraine and a further big step by fully embracing the sanctions.

The problem is that the first NATO country Russia will go after will be Germany. Russia will not need a very big reason.
 

packyderms_wife

Neither here nor there.
My sister and brother-in-law are in Germany and their news does not report what their government is doing to support Ukraine. I ask them questions about what we see and hear in the US about Germany and they have no idea of what is going on. We are not the only ones with fake news organizations.

Bushcraft Bear, on YouTube, was just in Germany and he did several videos about what's happening there, to say it's not good would be an understatement!
 

bassaholic

Veteran Member
Bushcraft Bear, on YouTube, was just in Germany and he did several videos about what's happening there, to say it's not good would be an understatement!
I scanned through many of his Germany trip videos but didn't hear him say much about it being bad there. It looked like he had a great time. Anything specific he said or recorded that stands out?
 

Hfcomms

EN66iq
Gerald Celente has said for years that when all else fails they take you to war. These moves that governments around the world are making are too stupid to be stupid. It has to be intentional. Did the Europeans not know that they were cutting off their noses to spite their face by putting embargo's against Russian energy that they all need to sustain their economies and population?

Russia is raking in the money as China and India are buying the oil and gas and then China turns around and sells a lot of it back to Europe at inflated prices and pockets the spread. They want war to cover the failing currencies so they can get their precious 'reset' going.
 

Red Baron

Paleo-Conservative
_______________
My housemate said that when the nuclear accident happened in Cherynoble, people in Western Germany were not told about it for over a week! Their family only found out from relatives in East Germany that managed to make a phone call to the West. That was before the internet, but German media is as controlled as any other, maybe more so.

I'm a bit of a military history buff. Visiting my Grandparents in 1981 I eagerly visited a book store hoping to find a treasure trove of obscure WWII militaria books.

What I found in the WWII section was the most stripped down and sanitized war history I had ever seen. Then I realized they were attempting to erase a decade or two of their own history. Most would agree that is a very bad tactic and one that will ultimately provide great harm to those so foolish.
 

packyderms_wife

Neither here nor there.
I scanned through many of his Germany trip videos but didn't hear him say much about it being bad there. It looked like he had a great time. Anything specific he said or recorded that stands out?

Hmmm he must have took the one video down, he was talking about the energy situation and how dire it was there!
 

Infoscout

The Dude Abides
Just about every NATO country has supplied similar if not more lethal munitions since before the invasion. The US and UK are supplying up to the minute intelligence as well. Russia picking on Germany on diminishes the Russian position. The fact is they can’t stop the supplies coming without either a decisive victory in Ukeville, or causing a larger conflict. The Russians would be better off writing off Ukeville, and being content cutting off their natural resources to Western Europe!
 

colonel holman

Veteran Member
I was rather surprised to see Germany send weapons to Ukraine. I was expecting just monetary, logistic, and humanitarian aid.

Germany took a very big step by shipping weapons to Ukraine and a further big step by fully embracing the sanctions.

The problem is that the first NATO country Russia will go after will be Germany. Russia will not need a very big reason.
Given that German forces killed about 20 million Russians, more civilian than military during WW2, can hardly blame them for that reaction (… assuming my history facts are correct??)

This implies they are NOT just being badassed in attitude and PR… They rather likely really mean it… in action
 
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Jez

Veteran Member
I think the West is getting braver against Russia because they are doing so poorly in Ukraine. This shouldn't have taken this long or with this many casualties. They don't expect Russia to go nuclear because of the world backlash.
 

AlfaMan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
I was rather surprised to see Germany send weapons to Ukraine. I was expecting just monetary, logistic, and humanitarian aid.

Germany took a very big step by shipping weapons to Ukraine and a further big step by fully embracing the sanctions.

The problem is that the first NATO country Russia will go after will be Germany. Russia will not need a very big reason.
I bet the Germans will be asking for all those American troops to come back. And soon.
 

Red Baron

Paleo-Conservative
_______________
Given that German forces killed about 20 million Russians, more civilian than military during WW2, can hardly blame them for that reaction (… assuming my history facts are correct??)

This implies they are NOT just being badassed in attitude and PR… They rather likely really mean it… in action

Just what I was getting at.

There had better not be -one- German "advisor" in Ukraine that the Russians catch.
 

von Koehler

Has No Life - Lives on TB

Germany has ‘crossed red line’ – Russia​

There will be no turning back after Berlin supplied arms to kill Russians, Moscow’s envoy says

Germany has ‘crossed red line’ – Russia

FILE PHOTO. German multiple launch rocket systems in action. ©P/F/H / ullstein bild via Getty Images

Germany has crossed a red line with Russia by sending arms to Ukraine, Moscow’s ambassador in Berlin said on Monday. The decision undermined decades of reconciliation since the end of World War II and the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union, the diplomat added.

“The very fact that the Ukrainian regime is being supplied with German-made lethal weapons, which are used not only against Russian military service members, but also the civilian population of Donbass, crosses the red line,”Ambassador Sergey Nechaev said in an interview with Izvestia newspaper.

He added that Berlin should have known better, “considering the moral and historic responsibility that Germany has before our people for the Nazi crimes.”

“They have crossed the Rubicon,”
Nechaev stated, using an idiom for passing the point of no return.

Berlin discarded its longstanding policy of not sending weapons into zones of armed conflict to join the US and other NATO allies in providing weapons to Ukraine. The German government says it has a moral responsibility to back Kiev so it can defend itself against Russia.

Germany also joined an effort by the EU to decouple the economies of member states from Russia’s. German businesses have been relying on cheap Russian natural gas for five decades, since before the Soviet Union collapsed.

German foreign minister visits Kiev
Read more
German foreign minister visits Kiev

The German government “has unilaterally acted to destroy bilateral relations [with Russia] that were unique in scale and depth and had been built over decades,” the Russian ambassador noted. “In essence, the post-war reconciliation of our nations and peoples is being eroded,” Nechaev said.

According to the diplomat, economic restrictions imposed on Russia over the Ukraine conflict have resulted in a sharp increase in utility bills, a surge in consumer prices, and a decrease in real incomes in Germany. Nechaev said the “sanctions war” against Moscow is being increasingly seen as “shooting yourself in the foot” in Germany, which has already faced protests over the cost-of-living crisis. The ambassador noted that Russia took no pleasure in seeing the damage, even if Berlin has itself to blame for it.

“We believe the ongoing processes to be Germany’s domestic issue, in which we do not get involved,” he said. “And we certainly are not in the habit of delivering pompous lectures, the likes of which the West constantly makes about Russians.”

Russia sent troops into Ukraine on February 24, citing Kiev’s failure to implement the Minsk agreements, designed to give the regions of Donetsk and Lugansk special status within the Ukrainian state. The protocols, brokered by Germany and France, were first signed in 2014. Former Ukrainian president Pyotr Poroshenko has since admitted that Kiev’s main goal was to use the ceasefire to buy time and “create powerful armed forces.”

In February 2022, the Kremlin recognized the Donbass republics as independent states and demanded that Ukraine officially declare itself a neutral country that will never join any Western military bloc. Kiev insists the Russian offensive was completely unprovoked.


Ukraine is a separate, sovereign country. It can run its external affairs as it see fit. It is not part of Russia, not a vassal state, or a buffer.

When attacked they have the right to seek assistance from whomever will help.
 

von Koehler

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Just what I was getting at.

There had better not be -one- German "advisor" in Ukraine that the Russians catch.

Russian losses were probably double the 20 million figure. Stalin ordered "a scorched earth" policy in front of the invading Wehrmacht and the Germans destroyed everything behind them.

Have to hide the runes.
 
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TheSearcher

Are you sure about that?
Ukraine is a separate, sovereign country. It can run its external affairs as it see fit. It is not part of Russia, not a vassal state, or a buffer.

When attacked they have the right to seek assistance from whomever will help.
This is completely true, but it is also completely true that Russia may not like it and act upon their displeasure.
 
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