FARM for TOOSH et.al. - a tutorial on grape arbors - with pictures included

Raggedyman

Res ipsa loquitur
Last week I mentioned on ReneeT's weekly prep thread that I'd planned to redo two of our three grape arbors this week. Toosh and several others expressed an interest in seeing pictures of the project – Prep Genrl - Weekly Prep Thread: March 13~19, 2022 so here they are, together with a bit of tutorial on the project and some of my (admittedly small) knowledge of "all things grape".

my knowledge of grapes dates from what I observed my grandfathers doing in my childhood. They both made home made wine every fall and used Niagra varieties grown on two tier wire arbors. It was my intent to duplicate that system. I tried the Scupernog varieties initially - but they didn't do well as we are too high and just a bit north of their preferred zone. I went with the Niagras – both red and white – because although we don't make any wine, we DO make jelly and jam.

the existing arbors were several years old and had been hastily installed using T post and bottom (tension) wire sometime in '07. as I said above the initial plantings of Scuppernog varieties didn't do well, producing LOTS of canes but no fruit amounting to anything. They were pulled and replaced with the red and white varieties of Niagra sometime about '12. I wanted to replace the old T post system with 4" X 8' PT fence posts. Plan was to set these 2-3 feet deep in concrete, replace the wire and add a wire tensioning system.

The technique is fairly straight forward – and – aside from digging the holes (tractor and 8" auger is a HUGE plus) and setting the posts themselves, it was an enjoyable project and not at all difficult

TOOLS REQUIRED:
PT posts; 5/16 long shank drill bit; tension wire and bolt cutters; ratchet style fence tensioning system and 9/16 or adjustable wrench; 3" X 1/4 lag eye screws and S hooks (nickle plated is OK and cheaper than SS); fencing pliers or large set of channel locks; long handled flat blade screw driver. Add a pair of safety glasses – tension wire that's been coiled can be unruly. you'll want some scrap pieces of PT to use as spacers to hold the ratchet tensioners clear of the posts after they've been anchored. I chose 5/4 PT scraps cut at 1". if you have tender pinkies, you may want some gloves.

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insert one end of the S hook and crimp it with a vise.
DO NOT crimp the other side on your tensioner device
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The existing beasts prior to taming

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small arbor up near the house - I did it first becasue the the larger one near the pasture . . .
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is still too wet to work. notice fence posts; these have been set and plumbed up for 2 weeks.
vines were pruned very aggressively in late fall in anticipation they would be re worked this spring
basically the arbors consist of 4" diameter PT fence posts sunk two and a half feet in the ground at 20' apart, anchored with concrete. I use a two tier system of tension wire (like bottom wire for chain link fence) and the ratchet type wire fence tensioners (check Tractor Supply) which are about $5 ea.

locate (height wise) your wire level. you'll do that twice - one high (holes for my top wire is 11" down from the top of the post) and one somewhere about half way up (for the bottom wire mine was at 28"). using a long shank 5/16 bit drill your hole through the post(s). pull your wire and take a couple of turns around the first post; twist it tight at the post and anchor it well with staples. pull the rest of your run at that level and cut being sure to leave enough of a tag end to insert into the ratchet tensioner. Pull it tight (a fence stretcher helps here) and take a small bit of wrap to prevent loosing what tension you've gained.

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locating and preparing to attach tensioners​

Locate your tensioners - you'll need TWO - one high and one low - on ONE end post of each arbor. The height at which you'll anchor your tensioner (mine were about 4" above the hole for the wire), will vary somewhat depending the particulat hardware you've chosen (trensioners, lag eye screws and S hooks). You'll want to be sure that the spring for the ratchet mechanism is ON TOP and that you do NOT forget your insert the wire tag end into the hole in your tensioner and tighten to your satisfaction. Its easier to pull the TOP wire first and complete that, so you're not working around the bottom wire and "in your own way".
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end part one










 
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Raggedyman

Res ipsa loquitur
part two

once you've successfully installed your wires and tightened them to your satisfaction, its time to deal with your vines. Either to very carefully unwind and re wind an existing vine or locate new plantings. In the latter case – be sure to plant directly under the bottom wire and stand a MINIMUM of 3' (and 4-6 is better) off the post on either side to give the vine a chance to produce canes on both sides with good support. Remember – its the wire that is supporting your vine and its canes NOT THE POST.
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finished and dressed to my satisfaction​

STRONG SUGGESTIONS:
if you're replacing existing arbors be sure to prune your grapes BEFORE you start. It can be difficult to "unwrap" old hard vines from existing structures. Pruning is best done in late fall after the sap has gone down and in EARLY spring before it comes back up. Even small canes will bleed heavily when cut at the "wrong time"

when locating your fence posts – be sure to stay a minimum of 3' OFF the main stem of your grape vines. This gives the vine a chance to produce canes on both sides.


ALWAYS protect your vines at the ground from lawn mowers, weed eaters and critters that may like to knaw at them. I choose 1/2" wire cloth cut 16" tall zip tied in a circle around the base of the vine and reinforced with a small (2') U post.

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ALWAYS protect your vines at the ground level​

Hope this has been of some help to those of you who are interested in such things.
 
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Meemur

Voice on the Prairie / FJB!
That's a good reminder about wrapping the base in hardware cloth. I need to do something similar.

Great job! Thanks for sharing! Love the photos. Looks like a peaceful place.
 

kyrsyan

Has No Life - Lives on TB
From the angle in one of your pics I could swear I knew that you were one of my old customers. But nope, I know you're not.
I'm looking at doing muscadines again, in a new spot. That system should work well. I know of a plan that is similar but uses the oval screw tensioners. I like your version better.
Love muscadines but dang, those vines will take over the world if they get a chance.
 

Kathy in FL

Administrator
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90 acres - LOTS OF WORK for an old man :shr:

The "real" reason people used to have lots of kids and refuse to pay for college. At least one or two of them would hang around to help out. And yes, that's a bit of cynical snarkiness. Running into this with our business and the BOL (45 acres). Hubby is a workhorse but does feel alone in the storm sometimes. I do my share but it can't replace having younger and hopefully eager bodies to help out.
 

Martinhouse

Deceased
Thanks for the pictures and descriptions/directions. Looks like the way to do it, especially when you're only one person with no extra pair of hands.

I thought arbors were arches. Lately I've just used straight horizontal cattle panels and called them my grape fences. I've been calling the arched panels I can walk under my arbors. Have I been wrong all these years? ?????????
 

Meemur

Voice on the Prairie / FJB!
I've been calling the arched panels I can walk under my arbors. Have I been wrong all these years? ?????????

No. There are different ways to grow grapes. A lot of it depends on the look you are going for and whether or not it's a small hobby or almost a commercial operation. I used to have just one vine. It grew on a curved arbor.

This time around, I'm going to do something more like what Raggedy has pictured. I want to grow several different varieties.

Other ways to grow grapes

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Raggedyman

Res ipsa loquitur
Thanks for the pictures and descriptions/directions. Looks like the way to do it, especially when you're only one person with no extra pair of hands.

I thought arbors were arches. Lately I've just used straight horizontal cattle panels and called them my grape fences. I've been calling the arched panels I can walk under my arbors. Have I been wrong all these years? ?????????

not at all! I've seen that befoer as well. I prefer the 2 (or 3) tier wire system as they're easier to prune and pick. its what I know from my grandfathers
 

Martinhouse

Deceased
Meemur, my ol' grandpap used to have a built wooden arbor somewhat like the one in your second picture! It was at their house in Liberty, Missouri. I'd forgotten all about that since they broke up housekeeping and moved in the summer of 1959!
 

AlaskaSue

North to the Future
Lovely tutorial and photos! I miss the grape arbors my family had when I was a kid in Oklahoma; wish that grapes grew up here….maybe I can convince the Florida family to give this a look. :)
 

Green Co.

Administrator
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I wish we could grow grapes here, or should I say harvest some grapes. We have muscadines galore, we trained some along a perimeter fence. They grew well for about five years, keeping them trimmed & watered. Never got an grape. The damned squirrels and cardinals would pick them as soon as they started turning, what they didn't eat they dropped on the ground. Guess those were too sour.

I need to harvest those pesky squirrels again. May is the season here, two years ago I got 32 from my back porch. Didn't make a dent, others just moved in from the forest. When the leaves drop in the fall, you can see red rags from my shop hanging from their nests. Pesky tree rats.
 

Meemur

Voice on the Prairie / FJB!
maybe I can convince the Florida family to give this a look. :)

Per Google:

Two types of grapes thrive in the Sunshine State: muscadine and Florida hybrid bunch grapes. Both are used as table fruit and for wine, juice and jelly-making. Grape harvest season begins in late June and continues throughout the warm summer months.

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I can attest that muscadine grows very well in Tampa! I took out about 90% of a 25-year-old overgrown vine, leaving enough for several clusters of grapes, as I was asked, and that dang thing tripled in size in less than two years! If they grow them, keep them pruned.
 

Meemur

Voice on the Prairie / FJB!
I need to harvest those pesky squirrels again. May is the season here, two years ago I got 32 from my back porch.

That's a bumper crop! I'd clean them out and then see if nut trees could be planted some distance away in the hopes that the new ones move there. Squirrels are like feral cats: they'll move to fill in displaced colonies
if the food is good.

Increasing the hawk and owl populations can also help, as long as there aren't large flocks of chickens nearby. Your chicken-keeping neighbors won't be happy with more hawks.
 

summerthyme

Administrator
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I wish we could grow grapes here, or should I say harvest some grapes. We have muscadines galore, we trained some along a perimeter fence. They grew well for about five years, keeping them trimmed & watered. Never got an grape. The damned squirrels and cardinals would pick them as soon as they started turning, what they didn't eat they dropped on the ground. Guess those were too sour.

I need to harvest those pesky squirrels again. May is the season here, two years ago I got 32 from my back porch. Didn't make a dent, others just moved in from the forest. When the leaves drop in the fall, you can see red rags from my shop hanging from their nests. Pesky tree rats.

Try something like these. They work perfectly against birds and bugs... not sure about squirrels, but I'm betting it would discourage them. I used to make bags for apples, but can't compete against the Chinese made ones on Amazon!

Summerthyme
 

Green Co.

Administrator
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[QUOTE="summerthyme, post: 9056698, member: 1480
Try something like these. They work perfectly against birds and bugs... not sure about squirrels, but I'm betting it would discourage them. I used to make bags for apples, but can't compete against the Chinese made ones on Amazon!

Summerthyme
[/QUOTE]

We tried some closely woven netting over the entire plants, but the squirrels just came up from the bottom. You gotta give them credit, they're smart little bastids...

After resting the garden since 2017, we are getting it going again. Have cabbages, onions, radishes, collards planted. Eating the collards and radishes now. We used to grow 1/3 acre in garden and put it all up (inspired by ST). Even then, the squirrels would grab a tomato and head for a tree, but then we had 80 - 100 tomato plants, for sauces and diced so it wasn't a necessity to get rid of them right then. I hate to kill any thing outside their mating season.
 

Raggedyman

Res ipsa loquitur
Lovely tutorial and photos! I miss the grape arbors my family had when I was a kid in Oklahoma; wish that grapes grew up here….maybe I can convince the Florida family to give this a look. :)

Per Google:

Two types of grapes thrive in the Sunshine State: muscadine and Florida hybrid bunch grapes. Both are used as table fruit and for wine, juice and jelly-making. Grape harvest season begins in late June and continues throughout the warm summer months.

-----------------------------

I can attest that muscadine grows very well in Tampa! I took out about 90% of a 25-year-old overgrown vine, leaving enough for several clusters of grapes, as I was asked, and that dang thing tripled in size in less than two years! If they grow them, keep them pruned.

Sue
hitchhiking on Meems post above - the scuppernog variety of muscadine does exceptionally well in Florida. they will grow to the size of quarters and are extremely sweet. neighbors had a couple of vines in Orlando - incredible grapes.
 

Meemur

Voice on the Prairie / FJB!
Yep! I was trying to remember the variety and could only come up with muscadine.
Worse, a lot of our local varieties are started with cuttings known as: Grandma Wilson's grapes, Aunt Cindy's grapes, LOL!

My favorite potatoes are known as "Amish Whites." Yep, it took awhile to learn they are actually Kennebec potatoes. Gotta love common names. Truth be told, they can call them BE-238576, as long as they grow!
 
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