ALERT DAMNIT - BEST WATCH THIS - OUTBREAK EXPERT

Rex Jackson

Has No Life - Lives on TB

adgal

Veteran Member
He's the expert in bird flu - has been the go-to guy for years. Well crap!!!
Folks - you've been given a gift - several months to get prepped!!!
 

CelticRose

Membership Revoked
He's the expert in bird flu - has been the go-to guy for years. Well crap!!!
Folks - you've been given a gift - several months to get prepped!!!

Agreed! Go through his site and see what he's done.

Yesterday I posted a link to his site..... thought it was a good place to begin to understand what's going on with this virus.
 

Rex Jackson

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Well if this is true we can expect 120,000,000 deaths within the next two years if this flu continues. That's enough to fill the fema camps, and coffins, collapse the economy, start riots, AND.....get ready for a stock crash, bank run, dollar collapse.

If this is for real, everyone should take all the cash they have, and spend it. Material goods are worth far more then worthless paper notes.
 
Not testing everyone...

They aren't going to test everyone to see which strain of influenza they have, so we will never really know how many people actually get this strain--what an easy way to avoid labeling this a pandemic.
 

Wowser

Membership Revoked
I didn't want to see something like this. He says the deaths are happening in Mexico because the outbreak started in Jan.

He says deaths will probably start in the US soon.

http://www.wpxi.com/video/19313969/index.html

Many thanks Rex, for posting. MUST see/hear!

Dr. Niman used to post here.

His interview is the BEST, up to date, out there.

Certainly explains deaths in Mexico vice "mild" cases here.

He is saying in his subdued manner, CHECK YOUR 360! Something evil is here.

Sola Deo Gloria!,
 

Wowser

Membership Revoked
Here is a blast from the past, concerning SARS, and GOVERNMENT LIES about actual numbers vice make believe numbers. Dr. Niman is quoted extensively.

Snip from below:
In an article titled, “Shanghai SARS Cases a State Secret”, the magazine counts dozens of known cases in several hospitals, quotes a doctor as saying the WHO delegation visiting the city is being deceived, and said party officials told local ”official media” that they were “not to report any SARS statistics higher than the government-sanctioned figures” and that they were not “allowed to interview any SARS patients or their families. “

The reason? Time says central government figures, worried that foreign investors would back out of Shanghai the way they have in Hong Kong recently, told city officials to continue to promote the city as a SARS-free zone.

But few governments are that cynical. By most reports, governments appear to be erring out of a misplaced belief that reassurance is the lesser of two evils, with economic ruin the alternative. End snip



https://www.nbr.co.nz/home/column_a...id=5&cname=Asia

Discounting the SARS reassurance syndrome


Counting victims: Discounting the SARS reassurance syndrome

francis till

When New Zealand's director of public health, Colin Tukuitonga, said at the beginning of the month that 96 out of every 100 people who contracted SARS would recover, his prognostic powers may have been occluded by his second message: don't panic.

According to official figures, the mortality risk associated with SARS, first stated at 2 per cent and until recently at 4 per cent, now appears to be at about 6 per cent in the general population -- and much higher in some locations and among some demographic groups.

But those official figures may be massively understating the actual risk because they are based on a counting model that includes thousands of patients still in the throes of infection, says Dr Henry Niman, a surgery instructor at the Harvard Massachusetts General Hospital.

According to Dr Niman, the actual mortality rate is much closer to 20 per cent in the general population.

"Mortality rates are usually calculated on patients whose outcome is known," Dr. Henry Niman says. "(The CDC's number) would be accurate only if all patients hospitalized survived, which has not been the history of the disease in the more heavily affected areas."

Instead, Dr Niman contends the proper measure of mortality risk is the one used in other epidemics: the number of fatalities is divided by the sum of the number of recovered patients and the number of fatal outcomes.

Currently, official figures are developed by dividing the total numbers of deaths by the total number of infections, including those who have died, recovered and are ill. If 100 people are infected and 5 die, the mortality risk would be 5 per cent under this procedure. On the other hand, if 20 people in that population had recovered, the measurement pool would be 25: the number of recoveries plus the number of deaths. In that scenario, the mortality risk would be 20 per cent (5/25).

The model still in use developed primarily because the disease has a long cycle, it now appears, and health authorities were forced by public pressure to develop some method of estimating risk before there were enough recoveries to make meaningful the more traditional method of mortality projection.

Now that there are a substantial pool of recovered patients, Dr Niman says the CDCs of the world -- and the World Health Organisation itself -- should change their counting methods.

Dr Niman's call for a revision to the mortality risk assessment procedure has fallen on deaf ears in the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and at the World Health Organisation (WHO), but has been a hot topic on SARS-related internet sites and discussion groups for much of the past two weeks.

Posting on 19 April to the influential discussion list run by Declan McCullagh through his Politechbot.com website, Dr Niman gave mortality figures for a range of locations that should shake many health officials like Mr Tukuitonga to the complacent core.

On 19 April, based on country-supplied data, Dr Niman says the actual death toll was:



Hong Kong 18.2 per cent

Canada 18.2 per cent

Singapore 13.8 per cent

Viet Nam 9.8 per cent

China, on 19 April, had a mortality rate of only 5.4 per cent, the lowest in the world.

By 22 April, the Chinese Ministry of Health reported a total caseload of 2158, a recovered population of 1213 (discharged from hospital), and 97 deaths. Under present WHO/CDC counting procedures, the mortality risk in China on that date was an astonishing 4.5 per cent (fatalities/total cases) -- but under Dr Niman's counting procedure stood at 7.4 per cent. Still low, but closer to the numbers being produced by other outbreaks.

China's figures are influenced deeply, some say skewed, by data from Guangdong Province, where the disease was first reported and which has consistently accounted for the bulk of infections in the country. According to health ministry data for 19 April, the total number of infections stood at 1330 with 1137 discharges and 48 deaths -- presenting a remarkably low mortality risk, the lowest in the world, under any method of counting.

In Beijing, where numbers of discharged patients are very low, the 19 April numbers point to a potential catastrophe: 588 cases, 46 discharges, 28 deaths. In other words, of the 74 patients with known outcomes for the disease, 38 per cent had died.

On 23 April, the health ministry reported 39 deaths and 64 hospital discharges in Beijing, meaning of the 103 cases with known outcomes there, 38 per cent had died -- and indicating the mortality pattern was holding and not merely the result of a reporting spike. In Shanxi Province, where a new outbreak appears underway, the health ministry reported on 23 April a cumulative total of 162 SARS cases including 45 among medical workers, 108 suspected cases, 7 deaths and 14 hospital discharges -- a 33 per cent mortality rate by Dr Niman's method of calculation, but an almost reassuring 6.5 per cent mortality risk by the WHO/CDC counting procedure.

In fact, in an April 23 statement on mortality, the CDC is careful not to confuse the mortality rate with mortality risk -- a point that few health agencies seem to have incorporated into their own pronouncements.

In a Frequently Asked Questions section of the CDC website called "What is the mortality rate for SARS?", the CDC says only, "As of April 23, 2003, a total of 251 SARS-related deaths – or 5.9 per cent of all cases of SARS – had been reported worldwide."

Doctors recently asked by Wired Magazine about the mortality projections noted several factors that could be influencing the WHO/CDC in choosing their method of assessing risk.

One possibily is that the known SARS universe is extremely variable -- so the most general form of counting may be the best.

“We do not have an infection-specific death rate," Dr. John Zaia, chair and professor of virology at the City of Hope Beckman Research Institute in Duarte, California, told Wired. "That would be very valuable, because it could be that hundreds are getting infected but only small percentage are getting sick. That was the case for polio."

Also, the population of recovered persons may be under-reported because diagnostic procedures failed to identify them as SARS victims -- meaning that until patients can be definitively identified as suffering from SARS, all discussion about mortality risk is speculative.

New Zealand Dr Maurice Mckeown told NBR, "there is, in all probability an unknown number of patients who may suffer a mild version of the disease not requiring hospitalisation and thus may not be included in the ... statistics at all. " Dr Mckeown believes that any calculation of mortality rate, let alone risk, should be understood to apply only to "the obviously afflicted."

Then, as the Wired story points out, the population of recovered patients is still very small, allowing for anomalies to creep into tallies.

"Only a small proportion at present have a clear enough outcome that we can declare them recovered," said Dr. David Freedman, a professor of medicine and epidemiology at the University of Alabama at Birmingham, told Wired.

But there is another possibility -- fear of an even more virulent epidemic: panic.

If that is the case, and pronouncements from many political figures in SARS hotspots indicates it may be, it may be time to stop downplaying risk.

Panic is already a reality in China and other places where the disease has taken root, and much of it appears to stem from the belief that governments are not telling the truth -- which, in several high-profile cases, has clearly been the case.

Add to that the unfortunate fact that many well-intentioned medical authorities have followed the leads of the WHO/CDC on a wide range of SARS-related issues and issued ”definitive” guidance -- only to find out later that the advice was incomplete, if not wrong -- and an increasingly suspicious general public is left to react without a medical rudder.

Over the past several weeks it has become clear that the truth about SARS is a shifting chimera, revealing itself incrementally, often only after the epidemic has taken a new turn.

Infection, for example, is possible by a wide range of vectors, not merely the extensive, close personal contact with symptomatic patients that was the first claim of the WHO/CDC. The disease is not purely a respiratory infection, as has been long claimed -- indeed, doctors performing autopsies in Hong Kong have noted major organ failures as well. Nor is the disease source understood very well. In spite of claims that a new member of the family of common-cold spawing Coronaviruses was responsible, new research in Canada shows that virus present in only 40 per cent of probable and suspect cases. More, it is increasingly apparent that the disease can be fatal in younger, otherwise healthy victims, even though early statements claimed mortality risk was almost exclusively shared by older patients with underlying medical conditions such as diabetes.

Now, public health officials in New Zealand are suggesting that only symptomatic sufferers can be the source of contagion, even while other medical professionals are suggesting that some victims may not have symptoms -- but could still be carriers. Even the CDC now says "it is not known how long before or after their symptoms begin that patients with SARS might be able to transmit the disease to others."

Uncertainties about the disease mean public health authorities cannot afford to ignore Dr Niman's statistics, especially not if they are doing so simply in the interests of preventing panic. They point to a much more virulent disease than previously thought, especially since they tend to bear out over a relatively long term.

Dr Niman wrote in Politichbot.com on April 20, for example, that “[t]he WHO data has been broken out into deaths and discharged for about 11 days and the numbers have been pretty consistent. The number discharged daily in Hong Kong has gone up quite a bit recently, but so have the fatalities, so the death rate hasn't changed much in the past 11 days:


April 20 17.5 per cent

April 19 18.2 per cent

April 18 17.6 per cent

April 17 19.3 per cent

April 16 19.2 per cent

April 15 18.7 per cent

April 14 17.0 per cent

April 12 14.0 per cent

April 11 15.9 per cent

April 10 16.3 per cent

“[t]he range is pretty wide for country to country, but has been pretty steady for the past 11 days:

Date Hong Kong Canada Singapore China

April 19 18.2 per cent 18.2 per cent 13.8 per cent 5.4 per cent
April 18 17.6 per cent 20.7 per cent 15.0 per cent 5.5 per cent
April 17 19.3 per cent 20.7 per cent 14.2 per cent 5.5 per cent
April 16 19.2 per cent 26.0 per cent 13.3 per cent 5.5 per cent
April 15 18.7 per cent 32.5 per cent 13.3 per cent 6.1 per cent
April 14 17.0 per cent 32.5 per cent 12.5 per cent 5.6 per cent
April 12 14.0 per cent 27.8 per cent 10.5 per cent 5.3 per cent
April 11 15.9 per cent 28.6 per cent 10.5 per cent 5.3 per cent
April 10 16.3 per cent 31.3 per cent 10.7 per cent 5.1 per cent

"The current motality rate in the teens for major sites isn't an upper limit, and the numbers could go higher," he wrote.

Unfortunately, officials in many locations with economies dependent on tourism and service appear to have been influenced by the potential for economic disaster and often seem to have raced to reassure anxious populations only to later discover they should have been far more aggressive in their warnings.

China, where medical authorities actually hid SARS victims and issued falsified reports about the extent of the epidemic is only the worst case in the reassurance syndrome -- and Beijing is almost certainly not the only or the last city to be found hiding SARS under the public health rug.

Recent reports indicate that the Shanghai government may be engaged in active suppression of medical news about the reach of SARS and the weblogging community is describing many instances of quarantine there, related to individual cases the government has not made public.

The weblog of Shanghai resident, Jian Shuo Wang, contains several such reports.

In one, dated 25 April, a Shanghai woman commented:

“My daughter's kindergarten claimed New Century Kindergarten is quarrantined. One parent of a child attending the school is in hospital for SARS treatment. Another kindergarten in Pudong closed yesterday also. Unknown situation out there.

“My health insurance sales guy called yesterday and told me to be extra careful, he claimed that there are over 200 cases in Shanghai.

“Sun Daily in HK reports that one doctor in Shanghai claimed he saw over 37 patients with full blown SARS in one hospital!”

Another commentator wrote:

“We're expats currently living on the island of Hainan, but the situation here is getting pretty grim. The government isn't admitting SARS is here, but everyone is restricted to their own village or town -- no traveling about the island. We're not even permitted to go into Haikou, which is the closest city (1 hour away). Anyone who leaves our village has to be quarantined upon returning. We're really not even supposed to leave our work unit except for necessary stuff. And we're not supposed to have ANY personal contact with mainlanders. Yesterday, I got in trouble for going out to get a massage and riding home with a guy from Beijing (even tho he's been here for 2 months). No more massages, no more socializing with folks from Beijing, Guangzhou, etc. Anyway, our contract isn't over til end of June, but we're thinking we'd better get out now -- at least one of us with the kids. They're starting to cancel flights in and out of Hainan -- yesterday all international flights and flights to Hong Kong were shut down.”

While the government maintains that there are only two known cases in the city, Time magazine is the latest external news agency to find those figures deeply flawed. In an article titled, “Shanghai SARS Cases a State Secret”, the magazine counts dozens of known cases in several hospitals, quotes a doctor as saying the WHO delegation visiting the city is being deceived, and said party officials told local ”official media” that they were “not to report any SARS statistics higher than the government-sanctioned figures” and that they were not “allowed to interview any SARS patients or their families. “

The reason? Time says central government figures, worried that foreign investors would back out of Shanghai the way they have in Hong Kong recently, told city officials to continue to promote the city as a SARS-free zone.

But few governments are that cynical. By most reports, governments appear to be erring out of a misplaced belief that reassurance is the lesser of two evils, with economic ruin the alternative.

New Zealand may be among the group of countries infected by that reassurance syndrome, as demonstrated by Colin Tukuitonga's appeal to the press early this month:

"Yes, there are risks and understandably people are anxious.
"But I'm appealing for people to put that in perspective.
"Be aware, know what to look out for but don't over-react," Mr Tukuitonga told reporters early in the month.

But even as Mr Tukuitonga was telling reporters that direct contact with an infected person was how the disease was transmitted, making the risk of infection very low in the general population, the WHO was issuing statements of concern that other vectors were possible, including sharing an airplane with an infected person, thus changing the advice it had earlier given and on which Mr Tukuitonga appeared to be relying.

Health officials in economies being staggered by SARS -- such as Toronto -- are quick to point out that the actual risk of infection is miniscule, whatever the mortality risk may be, and that deaths from pneumonia -- which are symptomatically related to SARS -- amount to much larger total numbers than anything so far seen from SARS.

Still, it is the risk to the public health system itself that has many worried, and it is a risk that is very real for under-resourced areas like much of New Zealand.

The demands made by SARS for specialist care in negative pressure isolation can stretch even advanced care facilities. Wellington Hospital infectious diseases physician Tim Blackmore was recently quoted as saying that while Wellington Hospital could easily cope with three or four Sars cases at once, any more would start to stretch resources.

And having hundreds of cases appear almost simultaneously, as has been the case in Beijing and other hotspots, may be one reason, unstated by health officials, why some mortality rates are so high.

The biggest challenge in care: as highest-risk health care professionals themselves become infected, the available treatment diminishes -- even as the demand for it grows.


PHOTO: Train attendants preparing to disinfect a train in Tianjin, southeast of Beijing. From: www.wangjianshuo.com, a weblog run by Shanghai resident, Jian Shuo Wang.
25-Apr-2003
Related Links:
SARSWATCH
CDC: Frequently asked questions about SARS
 

Rex Jackson

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Beware. Stock crash, bank run, bank closures, ATM closures, food runs, dollar crash. It could come as soon as the WHO announces they are going to level 5 or 6 which should be toward the end of this week.
 

SassyinAZ

Inactive
No way, Rex -- they should already be at 5, but by their count, there is only 7 confirmed deaths. It took them a week to confirm 7, I don't see them becoming more efficient, LOL
 

SassyinAZ

Inactive
Ummmmm, he doesn't sound too credible to me. He says he gets his map information from the media. And emails.

Where else is he going to get it from? Nobody official is telling anything close to the numbers and realities on the ground.

WHO says 7 confirmed deaths.

159 says Mexico (though they are reviewing double that), same number for days and their cases have doubled -- something hokey there.

That's just Mexico, there's been confirmed deaths in other countries as well -- God knows how long it will take them to get around to counting them.
 

BigBadBossyDog

Membership Revoked
He seems to want everyone to think he's some kind of scientist. If he has any kind of insight, he would know more than the media. The media would be getting their information from him, not the other way around.

I put him in the same category as Art Bell. An alarmist with zero credibility.
 

adgal

Veteran Member
He seems to want everyone to think he's some kind of scientist. If he has any kind of insight, he would know more than the media. The media would be getting their information from him, not the other way around.

I put him in the same category as Art Bell. An alarmist with zero credibility.

If you were a scientist studying an influenza that is spreading all across the world - where would you get your information? The CDC or WHO - both politically run organizations or from people on the street?
He proved that he has more insight than the media by what he said throughout this interview.
 

Hansa44

Justine Case
Well if this is true we can expect 120,000,000 deaths within the next two years if this flu continues. That's enough to fill the fema camps, and coffins, collapse the economy, start riots, AND.....get ready for a stock crash, bank run, dollar collapse.

If this is for real, everyone should take all the cash they have, and spend it. Material goods are worth far more then worthless paper notes.


And by the way. These will be deaths just from the flu!! We are in a waaaay different time than we were in 1918. People helped each other then.

This has become a dog eat dog world. What happens when the economy collapses? riots? Bank runs? 120,000,000 is probably a very low actual count.
 

adgal

Veteran Member
Okay - I won't waste any more time arguing about Dr. Niman's credibility. I think we need to talk about what he didn't cover - how to survive. It sounds like the reports coming from Mexico indicate that the flu is acting like bird flu with the way it is attacking healthy adults - not children and the elderly. They are fine for a couple of days - but when their immune systems start to fight back, they develop a secondary pneumonia and that's what kills them.
I believe its called a cytokine (sp) storm. Getting a handle on that is what will save our skins.
 

Wowser

Membership Revoked
He seems to want everyone to think he's some kind of scientist. If he has any kind of insight, he would know more than the media. The media would be getting their information from him, not the other way around.

I put him in the same category as Art Bell. An alarmist with zero credibility.

You are such a funny bad bossy :turk2: :rolleyes: :shk:
 

Observer999

Inactive
That is Dr Henry Niman. He is the expert. He posts on a few forums, has been for several years.

On this video he is calm, measured, factual. Much less biting than when he writes :lkick:

Here's his website, latest news commentary:

http://www.recombinomics.com/whats_new.html

and his map (the best map currently pinpointing locations):

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=U...201,-109.335937&spn=101.871352,255.585938&z=2

WOW ... from your links above I followed the 'rabbit holes' to a treasure-trove of active discussions and information regarding anything and everything about the flu and prepping -

http://www.fluwikie.com/pmwiki.php?n=Resources.Resources

http://www.fluwikie.com/pmwiki.php?n=Opinion.ForumTopics

http://www.newfluwiki2.com/recentActive.do

http://www.newfluwiki2.com/

:dstrs:
 

Rex Jackson

Has No Life - Lives on TB
He seems to want everyone to think he's some kind of scientist. If he has any kind of insight, he would know more than the media. The media would be getting their information from him, not the other way around.

I put him in the same category as Art Bell. An alarmist with zero credibility.

naa, he is getting his map stats from the net. Its the fastest way. What is more important than that stupid map, is what he is saying about the progression and the WHO declaring a level 5-6 pandemic within the next few days.

Now he is basing his death tolls without actually doing biopsy, so if he is wrong it may mean one other thing. 150 were murdered in mexico and it was blamed on the flu. That has a bad tone to it as well.
 

Rex Jackson

Has No Life - Lives on TB
Okay - I won't waste any more time arguing about Dr. Niman's credibility. I think we need to talk about what he didn't cover - how to survive. It sounds like the reports coming from Mexico indicate that the flu is acting like bird flu with the way it is attacking healthy adults - not children and the elderly. They are fine for a couple of days - but when their immune systems start to fight back, they develop a secondary pneumonia and that's what kills them.
I believe its called a cytokine (sp) storm. Getting a handle on that is what will save our skins.

Apparently the immune system overreacts attacking too much which causes the victim to drown. I would suggest stocking up on some medical grade oxygen? Do lung exercises to loosen congestion? maybe get some Valtrex? It can't hurt I don't think. I'm used to fighting health issues with Zinc which increases immune systems by up to 4X. In this case, Zinc might kill us!
 

adgal

Veteran Member
http://www.the-health-gazette.com/health-gazette-blog/alternative-medicine/natural-antivirals
Natural Antivirals
Submitted by Health Gazette on Thu, 2006-05-11 08:55. Alternative Medicine
Regular readers know that I have no time for the nonsense relating to imagined bird-flu pandemics. However. I regarded the following item of sufficient novelty to be of some interest. You may judge its merits for yourself.

Research suggests certain natural foods may be as effective against virus H5N1 as commercial antivirals.

(PRWEB) May 10, 2006 -- A Biology teacher from Australia, named Stephen Jones, has done extensive research into the H5N1 virus and compiled a list of natural foods that are effective against it and listed others that are detrimental.

The list may come as a surprise to many people since foods such as spirulina and echinacea are listed as detrimental. This strange occurrence is largely due to the fact that the virus is immune to 2 cytokines that the body produces (TNF-a and IL-6). Cytokines are compounds produced by the body’s immune system that attack and remove foreign bodies. The problem is that when a foreign body is immune to certain cytokines, the body sees that its immune response is not working and tries even harder, which can lead to what is called a cytokine storm, where the body becomes flooded with these compounds and they eventually destroy the body itself. Foods such as Echinacea actually stimulate the production of these specific cytokines; hence consuming it is not a good idea if one suspects they may have the virus.

During the 1918 Spanish Flu many healthy young people died from cytokine storms due to their immune systems overreacting. Consuming foods which suppress the production of cytokines TNF-a and IL-6 and enhance the production of the ones that actually are effective against the virus will aid the patient greatly.

Other foods that create mucous in the respiratory tract, such as bananas, are also listed as detrimental due to the fact that the predominant breeding ground of the virus is the respiratory tract and another way in which a patient may suffer is due to the body's over production of mucous in this area.

Folk Medicines and Herbs to use and avoid with Bird Flu

Below is a list of foods that are said to contain substances that are natural antivirals, immune boosters or they decrease cytokines TNF-a and IL-6.

Alternative medications that are most likely to help us during a severe pandemic:

Garlic (allicin) - Very effective antiviral. Best if fresh (raw) and crushed. Must be consumed within 1 hour of crushing. Dosage is initially 2 to 3 cloves per day but later reduce until no body odour occurs. No toxic effects noted. (Pubmed PMID 9049657)

Vitamin C - Boosts the immune system and is an antiviral by blocking the enzyme neuraminadase. Viruses need neuraminadase to reproduce. There are anecdotal stories of people taking large amounts of Vitamin C (children ½) surviving the Spanish Flu. Research shows that it may reduce the production of cytokines TNF-a and IL-6. A study on 470 people involved giving the test group 1000 mg hourly for 6 hours and then 1000 mg 3 times daily after reporting flu symptoms. Symptoms decreased by 85%. (Pubmed PMID 10543583, 634178, 16169205, 12876306)

Green Tea (possible Tamiflu/Relenza alternative)- Very effective antiviral. Also decreases the production of the cytokine (catechins) TNF-a. Inhibits neuraminidase. May have antiviral activity that is equal to other antivirals such as Tamiflu. (Pubmed PMID 16137775)

St Johns Wort (Hypericum) - Very effective antiviral. Also decreases the production of the cytokine IL-6. Hypericum is an extract from St John’s Wort. There have been some very successful field trials in commercial flocks infected with H5N1 in Vietnam. (Pubmed PMID 7857513, 11518071, 11362353, 7857513, 11518071)

Vitamin E - Immune booster. Also decreases the production of the cytokine TNF-a. (Pubmed PMID 155882360, 10929076) Experiments involved using mice. Very suitable for immune compromised people, especially the elderly. Effects enhanced when taken with Vitamin C.

Apple Juice - Antiviral. Fresh apple juice including the pulp and skin has greater antiviral activity than heated commercial apple juice. More research is needed. Effectiveness on H5N1 is unknown. (Pubmed PMID 32832, 12452634)

Resveratrol - Antiviral. In addition to inhibiting neuraminidase, Resveratrol also sends a message to cells to stop manufacturing viruses. This is a proven antiviral found naturally in red wine, peanuts, mulberries, Japanese Knotwood root (richest source), raisins and red grapes. Resveratrol supplements are relatively inexpensive, are more stable than wine and is available in liquid form for absorption in the mouth. No toxic effects noted. (Pubmed PMID 1583880, 12817628, 15985724)

Scuttellaria (Skullcap) - Antiviral. A herb used as a tea. It has no side effects and is also a mild tranquilliser. Research suggests neuraminidase, which is a substance needed by the H5N1 virus to reproduce, may be inhibited.

Cranberry Juice - Early research shows that it may be an antiviral, making viruses less able to invade or multiply. Effectiveness on H5N1 is unknown. (Pubmed PMID15781126)

Cat’s Claw (Uncaria tomentosa) - Decreases the production of the cytokine TNF-a. Also boosts immune system. The number of white blood cells was significantly increased during treatment. No toxicity was noted. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?CMD=search&DB=pubmed) Active constituents can be found in the leaves, bark, vine, and roots. Water extraction from bark used. Children and pregnant women are to avoid. Has a potentially damaging effect on the DNA of proliferating cells. (cancers, foetuses, growing children)

Curcumin (Tumeric Spice) - Decreases the production of the cytokine TNF-a. This is the yellow compound in turmeric spice. Research shows that this may be very good for preventing a cytokine storm although this is not proven. Must be taken with food or gastritis or peptic ulcers may occur. Pregnant women and feeding mothers should avoid this. The medicinal properties of curcurnin cannot be utilised when used alone due to rapid metabolism in the liver and intestinal wall. When combined with Piperine found in black pepper the absorption is increased with no adverse effects. Obtainable from health stores in tablets, liquid, capsules already combined with piperine. Dosage is 500mg to 4000mg daily.

Astragalus root (Astragali Radix) - Boosts immune system. (Pubmed PMID15588652)

Tea tree Steam Inhalation - Reduces the cytokine TNF-a. Add 2 drops of tea tree oil in a bowl of steaming water. Cover head with a towel and inhale for 5 to 10 minutes. Relieves congestion and fights infection. Its effectiveness is unknown. (Pubmed PMID 11131302)

The following substances may be best to avoid during a H5N1 pandemic

Elderberry juice (Sambucal) - AVOID - Increases production of cytokines TNF-a and IL-6. This substance is very effective against the common flu but may not be desirable for the H5N1 virus. Increases in these cytokines may trigger a lethal cytokine storm. (Isr Med Journal2002 Nov;4:944-6)

Micro Algae (Chlorella and Spirulina) - AVOID - Increases production of cytokine TNF-a. (Pubmed PMID 11731916)

Honey - AVOID - Increases production of cytokines TNF-a and IL-6. (Pubmed PMID12824009)

Chocolate - AVOID - Increases production of cytokines TNF-a and IL-6. (Pubmed PMID 12885154, PMID 10917928)

Echinacea - AVOID - Increases production of cytokines TNF-a and IL-6. Although it is often used for normal flu, research shows that it may increase the chance of cytokine storms for H5N1. (Pubmed PMID 15556647, 9568541)

Kimchi - AVOID - Increases production of cytokines TNF-a and IL-6. (Pubmed PMID15630182)

Dairy products & Bananas - AVOID - These foods increase mucous production.

References:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/ (search using Pubmed ID number listed after each food)

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adgal

Veteran Member
This is interesting, especially in light of the video - posted on another blog - a person from Germany:

My family had something going on starting in mid march,flu syptoms then went into our stomachs for about 4 days and then it came back around gain on usWTF?

Ive never been so sick in my life(45)years,all i could do for everyone is keep the liquids flowing so we wouldnt dry-up and blow away.just getting some energy back and we all have that sunk-in look around the eyes like drug users do.

That is exactly the symptoms so many people here in germany had. It started over here in Nov Dec, then took off in Feburary hitting a large part of the population. I couldn't get a doctors appointment here because my doctor was booked solid with flu sick.

Schools had about half the students out sick.


The news here gave a one second blurb that it was due to cold weather. Which is bs.
 

Cascadians

Leska Emerald Adams
I believe Dr Niman is very credible. I have been reading his writing for many years. He is willing to answer questions and discuss. He does not tolerate fools or attacks well. He will ferret out articles, translations, and piece together the truth of clusters of flu. He understands the science precisely. He is far more proactive and truthful and practical than anybody in .gov.

Rex, you have it right that should this go pandemic and have a mortality of 2% or higher it will severely disrupt civilization. Ppl have not thought through the implications.

Dr Niman and his followers have done excellent work as detectives with news articles. This should not be disparaged. The .gov is now coming to Dr Niman for help and advice.

There are many excellent threads archived on this forum about preparing for a pandemic. When bird flu seemed very dangerous there was much discussion and research. TB2K has a great search engine.

Tonight we went to Fred Meyers in Oregon City and pretty much cleaned them out of Sambucus syrup and tablets, Hawthorne Berry capsules and Tumeric 95% Curcumin. Glad they still had some -- and it was on sale :)
Already have lots of raw apple cider vinegar from the smallpox preps.

Good luck to everybody. We are no longer going out unless absolutely necessary. Social distancing sounds intelligent at this point.
 

sherbar92

Generally warm and fuzzy
He seems to want everyone to think he's some kind of scientist. If he has any kind of insight, he would know more than the media. The media would be getting their information from him, not the other way around.

I put him in the same category as Art Bell. An alarmist with zero credibility.


Niman is controversial and a bit of a maverick, but he holds valid credentials. Even his critics will tell you that. And, for the record, the interview Rex posted was done by WPXI in Pittsburgh...that is the NBC news affiliate there. They know of him because of his work at U of Pitt and UPMC. So, the media did go to him.

He holds a PhD from USC, and has worked at the Scripps Institute, U of Pittsburgh and Harvard. I personally wouldn't discount his opinion just because he doesn't play in the mainstream; in fact, he may be one of the only people right now who is telling us the hard truth.

Many of the people on this board who hold health, science and other advanced degrees also could be called "controversial" and "mavericks" too, you know. ;)

I'm personally in agreement with Cascadians, and find Niman to be very credible.


Decide for yourself; here's his background.

http://www.recombinomics.com/founder.html

[SIZE=+2]Founder[/SIZE]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Recombinomics, Inc. Founder and President, Henry L Niman earned a PhD at the University of Southern California in 1978. His dissertation focused on feline retroviral expression in tumors in domestic cats. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]He took a postdoctoral position at Scripps Clinic and Research Foundation where he developed monoclonal antibody technology. He fused monoclonal antibody and synthetic peptide technologies and accepted a staff position at Scripps. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]In 1982, he developed the flu monoclonal antibody, which is widely used throughout the pharmaceutical, biotech, and research industries in epitope tagging techniques. He also produced a broad panel of monoclonal antibodies against synthetic peptides of oncogenes and growth factors. These monoclonal antibodies were distributed worldwide to researchers by the National Cancer Institute. The antibodies identified novel related proteins which correlated with clinical parameters. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica]This technology was used to form ProgenX, a cancer diagnostic company that became Ligand Pharmaceuticals. Dr Niman subsequently identified protein expression patterns at the University of Pittsburgh. More recently, he became interested in infectious diseases while at Harvard Medical School. He then founded Recombinomics and discovered how viruses rapidly evolve. These latest findings are the subject of recent patent filings.[/FONT]
 
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Hansa44

Justine Case
[/SIZE]

Niman is controversial and a bit of a maverick, but he holds valid credentials. Even his critics will tell you that.

He holds a PhD from USC, and has worked at the Scripps Institute, U of Pittsburgh and Harvard. I personally wouldn't discount his opinion just because he doesn't play in the mainstream; in fact, he may be one of the only people right now who is telling us the hard truth.

Many of the people on this board who hold health, science and other advanced degrees also could be called "controversial" and "mavericks" too, you know. ;)

Decide for yourself; here's his background.

http://www.recombinomics.com/founder.html


Most discoverers of new scientific and medical material are mavericks and loners.




















 

baygoldbug

Inactive
Tonight we went to Fred Meyers in Oregon City and pretty much cleaned them out of Sambucus syrup and tablets

According to Dr. Henry Niman:
"....... The following substances may be best to avoid during a H5N1 pandemic

Elderberry juice (Sambucal) - AVOID - Increases production of cytokines TNF-a and IL-6. This substance is very effective against the common flu but may not be desirable for the H5N1 virus. Increases in these cytokines may trigger a lethal cytokine storm. (Isr Med Journal2002 Nov;4:944-6)


**** Which is it?
Is Sambucal Good or Bad for the cytokine storm of swine/avian flu?
****


.
 
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sherbar92

Generally warm and fuzzy
Is Sambucal Good or Bad for the cytokine storm of swine/avian flu? ****

This has been discussed here in depth; if you use the search function, keywords elderberry and cytokine storm, you should find a treasure trove of information from those with extensive knowledge of alternative and herbal medicines.

I'll also try taking a stab at it. :)

Here's how I understand it...hopefully summerthyme and some of our other herbalists will chime in.

Sambucol (black elderberry) has been found to both
1. stop flu viruses from entering cells and
2. increase the production of both inflammatory and anti-inflammatory cytokines.

So far, sambucol has not shown to be resistant to ANY flu viruses.

ORDINARY flu viruses are actually found to be susceptible to these increased inflammatory cytokines, so elderberry extract has a dual mechanism of action for everyday, run-of-the-mill flus. It works really well in these, and documentation can be found all over the Net stating such.

As far as bird flu (H5N1) and elderberry preparations are concerned, so far we mostly have in-vitro (petri dish) studies to consider. H5N1 is inhibited from entering the cell by elderberry.

But...the bird flu virus itself causes massive production of those inflammatory cytokines in the victim, and unlike everyday flus, is not susceptible to them at all.

This is problematic, because massive production of inflammatory cytokines may lead to cytokine storm and something called ARDS (acute respiratory distress syndrome.) So, in theory, using elderberry extract for bird flu could be problematic as it will increase the number of circulating inflammatory cytokines, and hence potentially increase the risk of cytokine storm and ARDS. There are many that prescribe to this school of thought...Niman is one of them, and you can't really blame him. He's basing his call on theory...but note there, even he says "may not be desirable." He says "may" because we just don't know....which leads to the next school of thought:

However...and this is important...elderberry extract in bird flu will also increase production of those anti-inflammatory cytokines as well, although I am unsure to what extent compared to the increase of inflammatory cytokines.

Therefore, another school of thought (which is the one that most of the herbalists here believe) is that if you combine elderberry's antiviral properties with additional anti-inflammatory drugs to "help out" those anti-inflammatory cytokines: drugs like possibly aspirin, herbals such as turmeric 95% curcumin and other antioxidants, or even some standard prescription drugs (such as ACE inhibitors, angiotensin II receptor blockers, the new TNF-alpha blockers, and possibly steroids like prednisone) you may beat the cytokine storm, particularly if you start taking both elderberry preps and turmeric 95% curcumin early, before the bird flu virus has a chance to multiply in your body, and before cytokine storm has a chance to begin. This can be accomplished by taking sambucol as a preventative, and increasing the dosage as soon as you begin feeling ill.

Add to that...medical science does not yet know the exact mechanism that triggers cytokine storm. In fact, it is unknown if increasing cytokine levels are what triggers the storm in the first place, or if something else acts as the trigger! It is unknown if elderberry products will actually increase a bird flu victim's risk of cytokine storm. This part is only theorized based on the knowledge of how sambucol works.

As an aside, there was some interesting research presented in a paper a few years ago that showed the antiviral drug Relenza, when combined with Celebrex and mesalazine (Rowasa, Pentasa) increased H5N1 survival in mice from 13% to 53%. (Zheng B.-J. et al. "Delayed antiviral plus immunomodulator treatment still reduces mortality in mice infected by high inoculum of influenza A/H5N1 virus" Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA, Published online on June 3, 2008 DOI:10.1073/pnas.0711942105")

The reason this is interesting is that the anti-inflammatory drugs employed may well have controlled the cytokine storm seen with H5N1 bird flu! If that is true, then it would also make some sense that employing things like aspirin and turmeric 95% curcumin with sambucol could also be a quite effective combination.

So, in bird flu, you have two choices...decide to go with theory and avoid elderberry preparations, or decide to roll with the fact that nobody really knows how elderberry preps will affect cytokine storm in bird flu, and take the elderberry. For H5N1 bird flu, most of the herbalists here have advised, in the past, to take elderberry as a preventative and increase the dose at the first presentation of symptoms, and take turmeric 95% curcumin concurrently.

As far as the current swine flu is concerned...it is an H1N1 variety, and part of it is a "bird" flu, but it is not exactly the same makeup as bird flu H5N1. The H1N1 strain we're worried about right now is basically two parts human, one part pig and one part bird flus.

Dr. Niman suspects that some of the patients who died in Mexico died of cytokine storm. He thinks this based on their ages and the fact that cytokine storm is the probable cause of death in many folks in the 1918 pandemic, and IMO it's a good educated guess. However...again, it's also entirely possible that those patients in Mexico died of other complicating factors, such as a concurrent bacterial pneumonia that set in on top of the flu, just as it is possible that many of the dead in 1918 died of concurrent bacterial pneumonias (particularly already weakened soldiers who died in the trenches from the flu in 1918. But I digress.) Research in mice using the "resurrected" 1918 virus does show that cytokine storm was probably a factor, but it's more than likely that concurrent infections were too. Probably it was a combination of several factors. Something tells me that Vitamin D deficiency may be a commonality between the dead in 1918 and in Mexico 2009, but again, I digress.

With this current swine flu, we haven't yet established definitively that cytokine storm is even a cause of death; Niman is simply guessing that it might be, or may be in the future. There is no clarification either way until we get more data on the Mexican patients who died. And, considering how Mexico has been handling this whole flu outbreak, it could be months before we have conclusive data. Add to that the fact that this flu is not strictly a bird flu, and sambucol begins to look even more attractive as a treatment option.

Right now, the current swine flu strain is susceptible to the prescription drug Tamiflu, which is great if you can get a hold of some. However, that also may change, particularly by fall after this virus has a chance to adapt and mutate.

In my opinion, elderberry preparations are an option, particularly if you concurrently take an anti-inflammatory herbal such as turmeric 95% curcumin to control any potential cytokine storm. To be prudent, I'd do the same thing here as you would for bird flu; take sambucol as a preventative, and increase the dose to the treatment dosage at the first presentation of any flu symptoms.

Keep in mind though...turmeric 95% curcumin does have some drug/disease interactions to consider. People on Coumadin (warfarin), people with gallstones or bile duct disease, pregnant patients, patients on chemotherapy for breast cancer, and people with GERD or peptic ulcer disease should consult their doctor before taking turmeric 95% curcumin.

I really, really hope this helps.

Link for information on sambucol that I referenced in the above:

http://www.unigod.org/flu/sambucol.html
 
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China Connection

TB Fanatic
This bloke is I think pushing the numbers down even at 200,000. If this started at Pig Farm run by SmithField in Mexico where one third of the local small city have Swine Flu which would be 10,700 or there abouts then 200,000 would still be low for Mexico. Yep, you can learn a lot more off the Net than what the government puts out.


This man is telling it like it is. We are in for a hell of a time very soon.
 

Samson

Senior Member
He seems to want everyone to think he's some kind of scientist. If he has any kind of insight, he would know more than the media. The media would be getting their information from him, not the other way around.

I put him in the same category as Art Bell. An alarmist with zero credibility.

He is a scientist! He knows more than the media about the Virus! He knows more about the history of pandemics than the media.

When it comes to knowing how this CURRENT outbreak is spreading he needs the media, email, phone calls, News, etc............ Do you think he was born with mystic powers. Do you think someone beams this info into his head.

You seem to be a couple sandwiches short of a picnic. This is a serious subject. Think, or ask an adult before you post.

Now I will get my Coffee.
 

et2

Has No Life - Lives on TB
He seems to want everyone to think he's some kind of scientist. If he has any kind of insight, he would know more than the media. The media would be getting their information from him, not the other way around.

I put him in the same category as Art Bell. An alarmist with zero credibility.

That comment just about seals your credability. If you had done just a little research on the man you would see his credentials. :rolleyes:

http://www.recombinomics.com/founder.html
 
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