CORONA Check Your Cells (smart phones that is)

[LoupGarou]

Donald Shimoda - from your Librem website URL:

"Peace of mind with a phone that does not track you"

Untrue. Once that baseband radio/chip locks into a cell tower (all conveniently standardized so that every phone that accesses the nearby cell tower will be able to nail-up/route the call/message/data across the entire wireless system, world-wide) TPTB will know EXACTLY where you are, and when/how long. As far as using HTTPS and VPNs, TPTB also control the entire certificate/authentication system - one end to the other - to include third-party VPN service offerings.

"They've" got you coming, and "they've" got you going.

Comment?


intothegoodnight

That is 100% true. ANYTHING, even a arduino with a GSM or LTE data board can and will be tracked once it starts up and tries to get to a tower. This even includes cellular devices that are not yet configured for service as it will always check across all of the cellular bands and systems that the cellular modem in the device can work with, even if it IS provisioned and programmed with service, so that it knows what carriers are available in the area that it is in at the moment and so it knows it's roaming options if needed. Once this data handshake happens, ALL of the towers in the area that are in range will know that the device has been turned on, with or without service. As towers hear your IMEI, ESN or other digital ID, they will pass that on to the tower ops servers and on to the main system servers. At that point, you are located and known up to the point of the whole system knows your device (if not provisioned with service), and up to the point of your account and your account tied data if you are provisioned with service. It's all part of the plan. The "Internet of Things" is another part of the plan. 5G, along with IPv6 giving the ability of changing "Internet of Things" to "Internet Connected EVERYTHING" is even more a part of the plan with the multiple more devices per person all tagging users on the go, and 5G with it's tighter cell grouping and higher frequencies guaranteeing sub meter tracking even inside the deepest buildings.

Loup

 

[Donald Shimoda]

That is 100% true. ANYTHING, even a arduino with a GSM or LTE data board can and will be tracked once it starts up and tries to get to a tower. This even includes cellular devices that are not yet configured for service as it will always check across all of the cellular bands and systems that the cellular modem in the device can work with, even if it IS provisioned and programmed with service, so that it knows what carriers are available in the area that it is in at the moment and so it knows it's roaming options if needed. Once this data handshake happens, ALL of the towers in the area that are in range will know that the device has been turned on, with or without service. As towers hear your IMEI, ESN or other digital ID, they will pass that on to the tower ops servers and on to the main system servers. At that point, you are located and known up to the point of the whole system knows your device (if not provisioned with service), and up to the point of your account and your account tied data if you are provisioned with service. It's all part of the plan. The "Internet of Things" is another part of the plan. 5G, along with IPv6 giving the ability of changing "Internet of Things" to "Internet Connected EVERYTHING" is even more a part of the plan with the multiple more devices per person all tagging users on the go, and 5G with it's tighter cell grouping and higher frequencies guaranteeing sub meter tracking even inside the deepest buildings.

Loup

My response to intothatgoodnight's post which you indicate is 100% true is here.

 

[LoupGarou]

The benefit of Librem is that the phone's software won't add in additional tracking and data mining systems INSIDE your phone or allow them to access all of the sensors and data on your phone. They would be left with JUST the data and voice packets that are sent out over their networks.

It's a good idea, but you are still using the same cellular service providers and systems that are designed to track and steal data off of anything that connects over them.

As many radio operators have said: If you don't own all the parts of a communications system, then you don't have full control over your communications, or anywhere near guaranteed security or anonymity. With cellular, you are fighting a losing battle from the start. VPNs and the other tricks will NOT help you with cellular or MiFis as the data they want are not IN the data packets that you can encrypt.

They pretty much have things nailed down as far as communications if you want to uses plain COTS systems. Even your simple radios can be monitored (Check out Hawkeye 360 for just one example, which our own Govt uses often and heavily... hxxps://www.he360.com/products/rfgeo/ It can spot, locate and monitor a half watt FRS walkie talkie.). Your choices are to think outside the box, and/or build your own system and methods. What we have is Multiple Domain Asymmetric Warfare happening on many levels, and you either start to learn how to work with/against whoever is doing what, OR you get real good at keeping moving and staying gray. This is the "new abnormal", and everybody should start thinking about Electronic Warfare and how to play the game to keep the Constitution in play and you and your groups alive.

Loup

 

[LoupGarou]

My response to intothatgoodnight's post which you indicate is 100% true is here.

Yes, I saw the response and agree with it. I was just expanding on it a bit. I also have looked at both the Librem phones as well as a few of the others, including silent circle's Blackphone2 and a nice well hacked one with KALI on it. The issue is the same, it still uses their cellular network and the data passes through their systems.

There is no good answer for cellular comms. I have a few things that I am playing with, but I'm not going to talk about them on the main...

Loup

 

[Donald Shimoda]

What we have is Multiple Domain Asymmetric Warfare happening on many levels, and you either start to learn how to work with/against whoever is doing what, OR you get real good at keeping moving and staying gray. This is the "new abnormal", and everybody should start thinking about Electronic Warfare and how to play the game to keep the Constitution in play and you and your groups alive.

Loup

Agreed.

I saw this all coming when the pay phone system throughout the United States was dismantled, making anonymous communication a thing of the past. I fear we may be the last generation to remember this.

Yes, I saw the response and agree with it. I was just expanding on it a bit.

My primary concern was my post would be taken out of context due primarily to the page break.

There is no good answer for cellular comms. I have a few things that I am playing with, but I'm not going to talk about them on the main...

Loup

The best answer I've seen for cellular comms is to avoid them. Unfortunately, that is becoming increasingly difficult in modern society. I've gone as low-tech as I can as far as cell stuff is concerned, but I also realize I am exposed to everything you have already laid out.

- Use a "dumb" flip phone? They're no longer dumb; they're running something like AOSP or KaiOS or some other flavor of not-so-dumb operating system. Unlike my beloved Samsung Gusto - when I initially turned on my eTalk, I was greeted with about a 30 page EULA detailing how it was going to spy on me.

The cellular alternative to a smart phone masquarading as a dumb flip phone? My Gusto is dead in the water, as that CDMA network is no longer an option. Minimum requirement to be able to send and receive calls is now VoLTE-capable working on 4G or greater. That means new phone - which is again, a smart phone masquarading as a dumb flip phone - or frankly, no phone at all.

- Take out the battery of my phone while I travel? That's great - until I put my battery back in and turn it back on to use it. Then it is part of the network and trackable again, and anyone who is wanting to find me can extrapolate from point A (last time on) to point B (when the phone came back on).

The best option I've personally come up with is a variant on your recommendation - "get real good at keeping moving and staying gray." I've been working on among other things, making myself as uninteresting as possible.

I just absolutely hate seeing folks being manipulated into participating in their own demise - even if they are DGIs. They truly don't deserve it. It makes me feel physically ill, and angry.

 

[intothatgoodnight]

Thanks to both of you - Loup and Donald - for your useful and informative replies.

Like you, Donald, I, too, despise how tech is unwittingly deployed against the interests of the user - whether they are tech savvy or not. Really rubs me the wrong way, when I think about it all.

No good answers.

Yet.


intothegoodnight

 

[Scotto]

I have updates shut off on my phone, no wifi or bluetooth, and it's not on there.

 

[PghPanther]

When I first looked at that title I thought?.................damn that's going to take a long time...........as the average human is comprised of around 6 trillion cells.

 

[Double_A]

The cellular alternative to a smart phone masquarading as a dumb flip phone? My Gusto is dead in the water, as that CDMA network is no longer an option. Minimum requirement to be able to send and receive calls is now VoLTE-capable working on 4G or greater. That means new phone - which is again, a smart phone masquarading as a dumb flip phone - or frankly, no phone at all.

CDMA network is no longer an option

What does Verizon use?

 

[Donald Shimoda]

CDMA network is no longer an option

What does Verizon use?

What are Phone Bands (GSM, CDMA) and Why Do They Matter?

The bands that support cellular service — CDMA or GSM — affect both phone carrier and phone type. Understand these key terms for to make the best choices for you.

www.verizon.com

From the above:


The future of CDMA vs. GSM.

As carriers build out 5G networks, they’re decommissioning their 2G and 3G infrastructure. Different carriers have different timelines for this, but Verizon is taking concrete steps to begin transitioning CDMA devices off of the network at the end of 2019 — eventually moving all devices to the HD Voice LTE network.


This has implications for people with older phones who want to switch carriers. Starting on December 31, 2019, customers will no longer be able to move a 3G/4G non-HD Voice CDMA device from one account to another. They will also no longer be able to provide such a device to activate on an existing line or swap one such device for another. However, customers with these devices will still be able to suspend and resume service, change their phone number, upgrade to compatible 4G or 5G devices and activate new lines for 4G or 5G devices.


On December 31, 2020, Verizon will begin moving all devices to the HD Voice LTE network. While the CDMA network will remain available as-is until that date, any service requests related to CDMA devices may receive limited support after the end of 2019. Customers are encouraged to upgrade to newer technology.


Both CDMA and GSM networks have provided millions of callers with crucial connectivity over a number of years. Watch for these technologies to be gradually phased out and for connectivity to improve.

 

[Double_A]

Thanks.

I have a crap AT&T 3G flip-phone. They are sending me info that I need to upgrade to 4G LTE as they are going to take out the old radios, guess everybody is doing it.

 

[Dennis Olson]

'You're basically stuck with no choice' | Customers with older phones forced to upgrade

Many are complaining that their older phones are no longer working well or at all.

IONIA, Mich — If you are a Verizon customer and you have an older model phone, you may have noticed service issues already.

The cell phone carrier is moving to a 4G network, or what they call VOLTE. That means the older the phone, the less likely it's compatible with the new network.

Bloggers started talking about the future of older phones last year, but now, Andrew Mourer, owner and CEO of YCD Electronics, says he's fielding calls left and right from customers experiencing issues with their older model phones. The only answer he can give them, is to upgrade.

"Things just aren't operating as they were before," Mourer said. "If you have a device that you've got sitting in a drawer and you think 'Oh I'm going to be able to give this to my kid.' Or maybe you're an elderly person and you don't want to have to learn a new device, now you're basically stuck with no choice."

RELATED: Silent Spy: How to control your Google footprint

Mourer says the iPhone 6 and below are becoming nothing more than a door stopper.

"A lot of places just a couple of months ago were giving away iPhone 6s, so they must have known a little bit more than we did that this was coming," Mourer said.

He said Verizon customers with those older model phones are already experiencing network issues and come December 2019, they will no longer work at all.

"If your iPhone is currently on the network, when December comes around, it's going to completely stop or you may have actually already noticed changes in your service," Mourer said. "Maybe where you used to have great service, you don't have service anymore."

Eventually, he says all iPhone 5, 5S and 6 models will no longer be usable regardless of the cell phone carrier.

"You're going to come into issues where your app store isn't working, WiFi not working, email not working," Mourer said.

RELATED: FCC formally approves T-Mobile-Sprint merger

He said it's not just an old iPhone problem. Soon, older phones will stop working all together because of network upgrades and manufacturer upgrades.

"[Galaxy] S6s are still going to work, anything S6 and up. Note 5 and up is still going to work, but before that, it won't work anymore," Mourer said. "We still see people with Galaxy S3s and S4s, none of those are going to work anymore."

If you've purchased a newer model phone within the last few years, you should be safe.

"Verizon is giving them until the end of December. If it's not gone by then, the network is going to be completely shut down by then, so their phones won't even work," Mourer said.

Click here for more information from Verizon.

No Longer Allowed beginning 12/31/2019: Verizon is moving 3G/4G non-HD voice CDMA device from one account to another account. Bring Your Own Device (BYOD), providing a 3G/4G non-HD Voice CDMA device to activate on an existing line. Swapping 3G/4G non-HD Voice CDMA device for another 3G/4G non-HD Voice CDMA device. 3G devices roaming outside of the U.S. 4G non-HD Voice devices and devices without 1x RTT/2G radios can’t roam in Canada.

Beginning 12/31/2020: Verizon is moving all devices to HD Voice LTE network, the Verizon CDMA Network remains available as is until December 31 2020. Any services requests related to CDMA devices any receive limited support and customers are encouraged to upgrade to newer technology

Impacted Devices: 3G-only devices, including 3G basic phones and 3G smartphones. 4G LTE smartphones that do not support HD Voice (ex: Apple iPhone 5s or prior). Connected devices with CDMA (e.g. GizmoPal, GizmoPal2, GizmoGadget, and some Hum + models).

►Make it easy to keep up to date with more stories like this. Download the 13 ON YOUR SIDE app now.

Have a news tip? Email news@13onyourside.com, visit our Facebook page or Twitter. Subscribe to our YouTube channel.

'You're basically stuck with no choice' | Customers with older phones forced to upgrade

Many are complaining that their older phones are no longer working well or at all.

www.wzzm13.com

 

[Craftypatches]

I guess they are intending the COVID bot to go away or it’s onto other things!

 

[TorahTips]

Hold on a minute....

Go to that Google Services application. Read it carefully. I'm not saying that bad things are eventually in store with this, but right now that is not the case. This Google app is a trunk. In order for it to work you must also download another app to be able to use this feature. Also, at the current time, your input is completely voluntary.

I believe that will change. In fact, I bet they track stuff other than simply COVID. But right now, this Google thing is simply a plug in for the actual functional app. Believe me. That one's coming too and it probably won't be voluntary to use it. Read the app features so that you are knowledgeable about it and future crap that appends it.

 

[Dennis Olson]

We’re not talking about tracking people via an app. We’re saying that you’ve been being tracked for years if you have a cell phone on you. Whether or not it’s a “dumb” or “smart” one.

 

[LoupGarou]

Hold on a minute....

Go to that Google Services application. Read it carefully. I'm not saying that bad things are eventually in store with this, but right now that is not the case. This Google app is a trunk. In order for it to work you must also download another app to be able to use this feature. Also, at the current time, your input is completely voluntary.

I believe that will change. In fact, I bet they track stuff other than simply COVID. But right now, this Google thing is simply a plug in for the actual functional app. Believe me. That one's coming too and it probably won't be voluntary to use it. Read the app features so that you are knowledgeable about it and future crap that appends it.

There are several parts to the system that they have "made live", as far as I can see on my phones and devices under Android, there are several APIs and other "pieces" that are included whether you want them or not in the Android updates. I have one phone which I have blocked automatic updates on, and two others that I let update. The one that I manually allow updates on has one API that is "covid tracking" related, and several other data files. The API and the system changes are nothing more than data connectors from a set of web servers to whatever APP you decide to download to show/warn you if you are near people with active Covid. The API on that one device does NOT pass any data back and does not do anything with Bluetooth. This phone's last system update was back in Feb and it is running Android 9 with a 4.9.112 Kernel. My other phones have several new APIs, some of which I have not done any deep diving on, two of which I have. One of the ones I have looked into do pass data back and forth from a web server and one API does work with the Bluetooth stack. It does not look like it actually generates the random numbers that others have talked about ON the phone, but it seems to pull and push data from those few servers. If that is the case, then there is no real anonymity as that part of the system is designed to share openly those randomized IDs with others "in the area". Basically, the servers send each phone a randomized ID, and then it shares with all that are in range (around 30 feet) and collects THEIR randomized IDs and sends them all back upstream to the set of servers. The servers then analyze all of the "groups" that match up, look for one that has been proven to have covid, and then if one does, send back an alert message to EVERYBODY in that group. Then it repeats the process every few minutes to see if people have moved away or if the "group" is still "Grouped" together. If people stay grouped together, then I would be willing to bet that TPTB get the list of who was in that group. Either way the process keeps going using both the Bluetooth randomized data as well as the normal cellular triangulation methods. Every few minutes, all day long, the "group" you are around gets checked against their database. Push, Poll, Receive, Collect, and Upload, "Rinse, Lather, Repeat style", all day long. If your phone has not had the updates with even the first parts, the system tracks via the old methods (IMEI, ESN, MRN, SIM...), If you have the system update and at least the first few APIs, then the phone does the Bluetooth randomized data handshaking on top of their normal methods of tracking (IMEI, ESN, MRN, SIM...) so that the normal method has the Bluetooth as a secondary check, guaranteeing that person A was near person B.

The APIs are just there for them, and to allow the APP to send and receive data if you chose to install it. The phone still passes the data through without the APP, and they can even get the grouping checked on without the APIs or the updates since they have Triangulation on your phone (and everybody else's) for decades.

What does all of this REALLY do in the meantime? It gives them a way to really delve deep into who is around who, where, and for how long. If they change the Random ID that they give everybody once every 10 minutes, and they see if change twice while you are with person B, then they know that you were near them (and roughly how many feet away) for at least 20-30 minutes EVEN IF THEY CANT GET A TRIANGULATION FIX on you or "Person B" during that time. And since this is based on randomized IDs, they can collect this data and use it for ANY purpose they want. This is the same level of data that the FISA courts usually have to agree to a warrant on, and yet, because it is being done and collected by companies, they don't even have to worry about "unmasking" anybody as they already have the data on EVERYBODY in their systems and share it OFTEN.

ETA: The basics of what I was trying to say is this: The software that they have already installed in most of the phones out there is the part that shares the random IDs and uploads the found, shared data. The APP that they want you to download only alerts you if someone in your vicinity is said to have active covid19 at the moment. Without the APP, you are still being tracked as well as all of the IDs still shared and check on. The APP is just there for your information.


Loup

 

[intothatgoodnight]

Comment? Sure.

First off, It's not "my" Librem website. I don't own it, nor do I endorse it.

As I wrote:

"There are some good alternatives out there, but in many instances either one won't get all the features one craves in a single handheld device..."


Notice I said "good," not "perfect" or "totally secure."

Also, notice I wrote, "one won't get all the features one craves" - which in this instance, one certainly doesn't.

The folks at Librem appear to be trying to steer individual privacy and security in the appropriate direction, providing a good alternative and some of the features one might desire.

As always, best for one to do one's pre-purchase research on everything before buying (and in this instance, using).

Got an issue with Librem? I'm sure they'd love to read your input on to how to make their product even better. Here ya go: Contact – Purism

Donald,

The reference to you or Librem was in the spirit of discovery of the detail - my purpose was to allow any other details/knowledge to be added to this very useful discussion thread, that you may have - none of my wording was meant to put you on the spot - I presumed you would know that.

Thanks for the info you have provided - we all appreciate it.


intothegoodnight

 

[TorahTips]

There are several parts to the system that they have "made live", as far as I can see on my phones and devices under Android, there are several APIs and other "pieces" that are included whether you want them or not in the Android updates. I have one phone which I have blocked automatic updates on, and two others that I let update. The one that I manually allow updates on has one API that is "covid tracking" related, and several other data files. The API and the system changes are nothing more than data connectors from a set of web servers to whatever APP you decide to download to show/warn you if you are near people with active Covid. The API on that one device does NOT pass any data back and does not do anything with Bluetooth. This phone's last system update was back in Feb and it is running Android 9 with a 4.9.112 Kernel. My other phones have several new APIs, some of which I have not done any deep diving on, two of which I have. One of the ones I have looked into do pass data back and forth from a web server and one API does work with the Bluetooth stack. It does not look like it actually generates the random numbers that others have talked about ON the phone, but it seems to pull and push data from those few servers. If that is the case, then there is no real anonymity as that part of the system is designed to share openly those randomized IDs with others "in the area". Basically, the servers send each phone a randomized ID, and then it shares with all that are in range (around 30 feet) and collects THEIR randomized IDs and sends them all back upstream to the set of servers. The servers then analyze all of the "groups" that match up, look for one that has been proven to have covid, and then if one does, send back an alert message to EVERYBODY in that group. Then it repeats the process every few minutes to see if people have moved away or if the "group" is still "Grouped" together. If people stay grouped together, then I would be willing to bet that TPTB get the list of who was in that group. Either way the process keeps going using both the Bluetooth randomized data as well as the normal cellular triangulation methods. Every few minutes, all day long, the "group" you are around gets checked against their database. Push, Poll, Receive, Collect, and Upload, "Rinse, Lather, Repeat style", all day long. If your phone has not had the updates with even the first parts, the system tracks via the old methods (IMEI, ESN, MRN, SIM...), If you have the system update and at least the first few APIs, then the phone does the Bluetooth randomized data handshaking on top of their normal methods of tracking (IMEI, ESN, MRN, SIM...) so that the normal method has the Bluetooth as a secondary check, guaranteeing that person A was near person B.

The APIs are just there for them, and to allow the APP to send and receive data if you chose to install it. The phone still passes the data through without the APP, and they can even get the grouping checked on without the APIs or the updates since they have Triangulation on your phone (and everybody else's) for decades.

What does all of this REALLY do in the meantime? It gives them a way to really delve deep into who is around who, where, and for how long. If they change the Random ID that they give everybody once every 10 minutes, and they see if change twice while you are with person B, then they know that you were near them (and roughly how many feet away) for at least 20-30 minutes EVEN IF THEY CANT GET A TRIANGULATION FIX on you or "Person B" during that time. And since this is based on randomized IDs, they can collect this data and use it for ANY purpose they want. This is the same level of data that the FISA courts usually have to agree to a warrant on, and yet, because it is being done and collected by companies, they don't even have to worry about "unmasking" anybody as they already have the data on EVERYBODY in their systems and share it OFTEN.

ETA: The basics of what I was trying to say is this: The software that they have already installed in most of the phones out there is the part that shares the random IDs and uploads the found, shared data. The APP that they want you to download only alerts you if someone in your vicinity is said to have active covid19 at the moment. Without the APP, you are still being tracked as well as all of the IDs still shared and check on. The APP is just there for your information.


Loup

I don't doubt that this software can (and probably is) a tracking device. In fact, by a doctor entering your phone number into another terminal, the gvmt can likely track you as a COVID positive person. If you have been told to quarantine yourself and they find that you are not doing that, they can likely track you down.

However, without downloading and installing another app no one else on the street can "see" you as positive. And, in order for that to happen you must have Bluetooth turned on and the other app installed.

Now for the big question: If you test positive can the doctor "force" you to download the app (for public safety)? Will the app force the activation of Bluetooth? Those are two pieces of the puzzle that we do not have. I suspect that a number of us can guess the answers to both questions....

 

[LoupGarou]

I don't doubt that this software can (and probably is) a tracking device. In fact, by a doctor entering your phone number into another terminal, the gvmt can likely track you as a COVID positive person. If you have been told to quarantine yourself and they find that you are not doing that, they can likely track you down.

However, without downloading and installing another app no one else on the street can "see" you as positive. And, in order for that to happen you must have Bluetooth turned on and the other app installed.
...

Without downloading the APP, you will still be tracked, you just can't see the results of the server checking the current "Group" you are nearby. Anyone in the group that DOES have the APP on their phone will be alerted if someone in that group has tested positive for Covid, even if that person does not have the APP, but just has an active phone.

The bluetooth part is just a second factor verification system since you technically are talking about anonymized HIPAA data. The bluetooth random ID handshaking part is not the main method of them telling who is hanging out with whom, the cellular towers and their servers are the main method of that. The APIs (not the APP you have to download if you want it) are the part that make the Bluetooth exchanges happen on each phone.

...
Now for the big question: If you test positive can the doctor "force" you to download the app (for public safety)? Will the app force the activation of Bluetooth? Those are two pieces of the puzzle that we do not have. I suspect that a number of us can guess the answers to both questions....

The doctor, once he has a confirmed test result of Covid19 already has let TPTB know because ALL of the modern EHR systems now have full Syndromic Surveillance for Covid 19. ALL of the major Labs (like Labcorp) also have FULL reporting. And all of that data heads back to FEMA directly. I have quite a few major medical customers that I do IT security for, and that data is mixed in with the boatloads of other data all heading upstream to other EHRs, Insurance companies, and all sorts of other groups (like federal and state government systems and hundreds of privately owned databases). You get tested, and give them your ID, and your results are EVERYWHERE within hours. And you can bet that the servers at google and Apple get at least a part of that data so that they can "warn" others, but also keep tracking who comes in contact with confirmed covid cases so that the contact tracers have that much more to go on.

From: Allscripts introduces package of COVID-19 solutions for hospitals | Allscripts

Surveillance and Regulatory Reporting

Health systems need ongoing information on patients, resources and utilization trends daily, if not more frequently. Through a rapid design and build approach, our teams have released Allscripts® Clinical Performance Management COVID-19 Surveillance and Reports. This report pack includes COVID-19 Patient Surveillance, High-Risk Patient Pursuit List, Daily Lab Reporting and Hospital Capacity Planning Report. The Daily Lab Report and Hospital Capacity Report meet the recent White House request for hospitals to deliver daily updates to the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

And Athena and all of the other EHR systems have it as well...

Loup

 

[JF&P]

All this tech talk just goes right over my head....LOL

 

[Macgyver]

So how do you remove it?

 

[33dInd]

dang, there it is on mine and the wife's. Not turned on but there it is.
Is it possible to delete this kinda App?

 

[LoupGarou]

So how do you remove it?

and...

dang, there it is on mine and the wife's. Not turned on but there it is.
Is it possible to delete this kinda App?

You don't. At least not without rooting your phone. And it really doesn't matter what is running on the phone, since all of the real tracking is done on their systems through their networks.

Loup

 

[LoupGarou]

I'm starting to wonder how far I could get by creating a LLC "CO-OP" group as a business, getting a FCC business license for radios with both analog narrowband voice and DMR with and without encryption (including repeaters in the license) and creating my own radio network for any groups that need it. Completely bypassing cellular networks...

License costs should be under a few hundred bucks. Equipment costs would be under $300 per user. And with encrypted DMR data over a good VPN the network would be rather tight.

Loup

 

[BeeMan]

I suppose I’ll just have to start treating my cell phone as we did the old land lines. Sit it on a shelf and never move it from there. No more pay phones in my area so I’ll just have to pretend that we’re back in the 1980’s, but no way to call when away from home. Such things don’t really seem like progress now do they. Maybe I’ll just have to stop using my phone completely. Such is life...

 

[AlfaMan]

Just ask Hillary.

I don't think it applies to the new ones, though; you'd better check.

Thanks, I did. My Passport runs BB10 OS, think the tracking app designers were too lazy port the app to BB10.

 

[AlfaMan]

Without downloading the APP, you will still be tracked, you just can't see the results of the server checking the current "Group" you are nearby. Anyone in the group that DOES have the APP on their phone will be alerted if someone in that group has tested positive for Covid, even if that person does not have the APP, but just has an active phone.

The bluetooth part is just a second factor verification system since you technically are talking about anonymized HIPAA data. The bluetooth random ID handshaking part is not the main method of them telling who is hanging out with whom, the cellular towers and their servers are the main method of that. The APIs (not the APP you have to download if you want it) are the part that make the Bluetooth exchanges happen on each phone.




The doctor, once he has a confirmed test result of Covid19 already has let TPTB know because ALL of the modern EHR systems now have full Syndromic Surveillance for Covid 19. ALL of the major Labs (like Labcorp) also have FULL reporting. And all of that data heads back to FEMA directly. I have quite a few major medical customers that I do IT security for, and that data is mixed in with the boatloads of other data all heading upstream to other EHRs, Insurance companies, and all sorts of other groups (like federal and state government systems and hundreds of privately owned databases). You get tested, and give them your ID, and your results are EVERYWHERE within hours. And you can bet that the servers at google and Apple get at least a part of that data so that they can "warn" others, but also keep tracking who comes in contact with confirmed covid cases so that the contact tracers have that much more to go on.

From: Allscripts introduces package of COVID-19 solutions for hospitals | Allscripts


And Athena and all of the other EHR systems have it as well...

Loup

Loup, should TB2K ever try and set up an ad-hoc version of the NSA, you REALLY should apply to be the director.

I use a Blackberry-BB 10 OS. The phone does not have the app on it; looks like the app designers were too lazy to develop one. Not many of us BB users left it seems, except for the govt. and hardcore BB fanboys like me
Yet, I know a cellphone can be tracked the second it is turned on. I had a rhetorical question regarding phones in general though.
Your'e familiar with frequency agile radios, clearly. Is it possible to design software to make a cellphone frequency agile? Or some way to spoof info going to the towers (incorrect IMEI, location and other data?)

 

[Dennis Olson]

I'd buy in.

 

[zeker]

my landline number was ported (stolen) cpl weeks ago

dont feel too secure about your landline

aside from wiping all my pwords

they hit my bank for $800

eventually got the 800 recinded

but now i have to fite to recind $45 nsf charge

yesterday I learned that my master card was also hit with $800

I have since got it recinded as well as 2 nsf charges of $45

I still havent got my phone number back

its been 2 weeks since june 16 and new sim card is 'on the way'

5 fraud investigations

master card, royal bank, paypal, bell and rogers

yesterday (sun) I was told how easy it is to do this

they need your phone number and then your address

and a disposable phone

thats it

from there they change all pwords etc

I have not had access to any emails since june 16

cannot re-instate til I get phone number back

both $800 'withdrawals' have been withdrawn/corrected

took an hr today to get nsf charges gone

 

[pauldingbabe]

Hi Loup. No I do Not own a car either but I live without. I live here in wonderful Jackson Hole, Wy. and I bike, walk, or take the local bus everywhere I go. Do personally live a very simple life and live without the things many people consider essential. My joy in life is getting back in the deep wilderness which is abundance here locally and live in the wilds in the old ways. Also do not own a home but rent. Big times of the year live in the wilderness say .... Learn to Live Without!

Im certainly ready to join you if you can stand the company!

I always said we needed TB2K summer camps! There are several members here whom I would gladly spend my time with.

 

[TammyinWI]

You have to download the app from your local health authority. You have to turn it on. You have to confirm it is set to use your location using blue tooth.
I have done none of that, so it is off. You also have to set the bell notification or you won't know if an infected person is near you.

I cannot believe that people would actually do this...but they are out there, in droves.

 

[TammyinWI]

SLNT®

Patented Faraday bags, Faraday cages, RFID wallets, and more privacy protection solutions trusted by government agencies.

silent-pocket.com

View attachment 205753

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In the last few weeks, we have been heavy on how COVID-19 and Contact Tracing could forever change our privacy and its relationship with modern technology.

This is not something to take lightly, as Government-mandated tracking is a scary thought for us and many other folks.
What if you found out that the application you downloaded to help get your morning coffee was also tracking you? Check out this recent finding that Tim Horton's was tracking each of their users every few minutes to see if they were visiting competitors.

We hear about companies using our data all the time, but putting a face to the name makes it that much more real.
This is why we advise using a Faraday Sleeve while you leave the house and making sure that your cameras are covered with privacy stickers.

Many applications have varying levels of permissions built in that could even access your camera! Make sure your face and others are always hidden with our latest Re-Usable NanoBloc Universal Webcam Covers!

#mindthegrid
- Silent Pocket