Bush and the upcoming Flu Pandemic. You will be on your own. Order Tamiflu now.

BarkingDog

Inactive
Dr. Henry Niman has opined that Tamiflu might not work. H5N1 is continuing to recombine as it moves globally towards you and me.

By the way. Yesterday, I stubbed my toe on a log. I blame George Bush. NOT!!!
 

NoCarrier

Membership Revoked
VesperSparrow said:
And as for Tamiflu, how do you know when you need it? How will you distinguish between this flu and just everyday colds.

cold-flu.jpg


Sure, it's going to be trial and error. But let's face it. It will be better than nothing.

VesperSparrow said:
BTW FWIW, in 15 years of nursing I've seen Tamiflu prescribed ONE time.

Well, Tamiflu was approved by the FDA in 2000 only.
 

Brooks

Membership Revoked
Rams82 said:
If this potential epidemic is half as bad as these scientists say then this stuff needs to be mass produced really quick and made available without prescription.
Tamiflu is made by exactly one pharmaceutical company - Roche in the Netherlands. They are backlogged with government orders across the world for millions of doses.

It won't be mass produced and it won't be available without a prescription.

Quite a number of potential homeopathic remedies, but they have to fit the symptoms. For the VERY beginning of the disease, oscillococcinum might help.

For those who have never tried elderberry extract, give it a try now. Turns out I'm allergic to it.
 

New Freedom

Veteran Member
To all of you that have studied this potential pandemic flu, which is the better medicine.....TAMIFLU or Sambucol? I've read a few things on each and am confused as to which would be the best to take at the onset of this or any flu???

:confused:
 

don24mac

Veteran Member
We tried Sambucol last year for the first time (found out about it from this site). I first came down with the flu after being exposed. At first sign of symptoms, I took Sambucol and kept taking it until symptoms subsided. It didn't cure the flu, bit it sure reduced the symptoms. A few days later DW came down with it and she initially didn't want to try something new like this. Her symptoms were much worse.

She takes it now though, and it works, and we have a good supply of the syrup and lozenges.

It won't prevent you from having symptoms of the flu. But, it sure reduces the effects and time period.

I've seen Sambucol sold in health food stores, some supermarkets, and even some drug stores (if they have a "natural remedies" section.)
 

Claudia

I Don't Give a Rat's Ass...I'm Outta Here!
I have both, and I'll take both. I'll even add amantadine to the mix if I think it will help.
 

iboya

Veteran Member
New Freedom said:
To all of you that have studied this potential pandemic flu, which is the better medicine.....TAMIFLU or Sambucol? I've read a few things on each and am confused as to which would be the best to take at the onset of this or any flu???

:confused:

I believe Sambucol inhibits the H from H5N1 from entering the cell it wants to infect. Tamiflu inhibits the N from leaving the cell it has already infected. They are both antiviral.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9395631&dopt=Abstract

Sambucol-made in Israel-inhibited all flu strains tested against, in clinical trial.

Bottom line of the following article, Sambucol worked against all the flu strains it was tested against in the clinical study.

Inhibition of several strains of influenza virus in vitro and reduction of symptoms by an elderberry extract (Sambucus nigra L.) during an outbreak of influenza B Panama.

Department of Virology, Hebrew University-Hadassah Medical School, Jerusalem, Israel.

A standardized elderberry extract, Sambucol (SAM), reduced hemagglutination and inhibited replication of human influenza viruses type A/Shangdong 9/93 (H3N2), A/Beijing 32/92 (H3N2), A/Texas 36/91 (H1N1), A/Singapore 6/86 (H1N1), type B/Panama 45/90, B/Yamagata 16/88, B/Ann Arbor 1/86, and of animal strains from Northern European swine and turkeys, A/Sw/Ger 2/81, A/Tur/Ger 3/91, and A/Sw/Ger 8533/91 in Madin-Darby canine kidney cells.

A placebo-controlled, double blind study was carried out on a group of individuals living in an agricultural community (kibbutz) during an outbreak of influenza B/Panama in 1993. Fever, feeling of improvement, and complete cure were recorded during 6 days. Sera obtained in the acute and convalescent phases were tested for the presence of antibodies to influenza A, B, respiratory syncytial, and adenoviruses.

Convalescent phase serologies showed higher mean and mean geometric hemagglutination inhibition (HI) titers to influenza B in the group treated with SAM than in the control group. A significant improvement of the symptoms, including fever, was seen in 93.3% of the cases in the SAM-treated group within 2 days, whereas in the control group 91.7% of the patients showed an improvement within 6 days (p < 0.001).

A complete cure was achieved within 2 to 3 days in nearly 90% of the SAM-treated group and within at least 6 days in the placebo group (p < 0.001). No satisfactory medication to cure influenza type A and B is available.

Considering the efficacy of the extract in vitro on all strains of influenza virus tested, the clinical results, its low cost, and absence of side-effects, this preparation could offer a possibility for safe treatment for influenza A and B.
 
Last edited:

sleepymarie

Inactive
there are other medication which are useful against influenza A. but not against the bird flu. A drug called amantadine was useful against some bird flu strains but the Chinese dosed massive amounts of chickens with it without informing the WHO and the virus developed some immunity to it. THis is a practice which is prohibited by world health organizations but the chinese did it anyway.
Do a web search on antivirals and you will see there are other options which might be effective.
(this is by the way something good that came out of the AIDS epidemic, the increase in antiviral medication)
And don't forget we can stil have a garden variety flu outbreak as well.
 

Kimber

Membership Revoked
I would strongly suggest relying on prepping for isolation. Food, water, guns and ammo. Figure out what you'll need to stay away from people for a few months or a year, and prep for that.

Trusting the pharmaceutical industry to save you isn't something I would recommend. I personally think that if this hits it will be by design, and for that reason alone I would not trust any FDA approved pill to save me.

After the current scare dies down, I will likely get a prescription through connections. But, I won't take a pill until absolutely necessary. Presently, I figure I'm good for 6-9 months worth of stuff without seeing another person. My plan is to resurface after the first wave or two.

David
 

John H

Deceased
As of early August the version of H5N1 approaching Europe was still sensitive to Amantadine and Rimantadine, in spite of the Chinese misuse of the drugs. However, since the bird flu has not yet recombined into a dangerous to human version, it is not known what that final version will be sensitive to, including Tamiflu.

You pays your money and takes your chances...

Amantadine and Rimantadine Sensitive H5N1 Approaches Europe

http://www.recombinomics.com/News/08020507/H5N1_Amantadine_Rimantadine.html
 

expose'

The Pulse......
:rolleyes:

Are we doing this again?
Every Fall - right on schedule - the great mysterious *influenza* threat!

Did you know that there have only been 113 cases of *Avian* Flu in the world? Of those - 58 people died. All cases were diagnosed in Asia - with the most in Viet Nam. (Not the most sanitary conditions for even a cold!) (Indonesia, Viet Nam, Cambodia and Thailand)

http://www.who.int/entity/csr/disease/avian_influenza/country/cases_table_2005_09_16/en/index.html



Did you know that virtually ALL influenza virus originated with birds? (Avians)...

Did you know that every year approximately 36,000 people in the United States die of the flu (we're talking the regular flu...) or complications caused by it? Why is there no great panic? This happens every year in our country! Why no meeting at the UN? Surely our average death toll greatly outnumbers this silly Avian Flu!
Makes you wonder why the global hype over a bird flu that has only killed a few people.......($$$$)

Did you know that the rate of mortality among the elderly has greatly increased over the past 30 years - running parallel to the rate of annual flu shots for the elderly?

Do you know how much money pharmaceutical companies like the makers of Flu-Mist and Tamiflu make from your misguided fear every year? (Billions!) Two years ago - Flu mist actually helped create a flu epidemic with it's live cell virus nasal vaccine!

Everything I've stated here can be found in the TB search feature.....

We've just been thruogh this before...and before...and again.. :shk:
 

Vere My Sone

Inactive
Has anything been posted here about using kimchi for bird flu? I was just reading about that a little yesterday. Seemsit was fed to some infected chickens and a large percentage of the group recovered.
 

optimistic pessimist

Veteran Member
Homeopathic medicine worked well for the 1918 flu. Here is something I stumbled across on the web- not sure of the sources, etc. but specifically mentions SARS, which I thought interesting....flu prevention program-- you start taking the stuff months before anticipated contact- supposedly strengthens immune response and preps your body for this stuff.... Not sure if I will buy this but might take it into my naturopath and ask her about it.

http://www.y2khealthanddetox.com/fluprevention.htm
 

ARUBI

Inactive
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

St. Jude's children's hospital on the front line in bird flu fight

By Maggie Fox, Reuters
September 18, 2005

MEMPHIS -- It seems an unlikely place to launch a war against a bird virus health officials believe could soon mutate into a human pandemic that will kill millions -- a hospital filled with children fighting devastating genetic diseases and rare cancers.

But Robert Webster likes the daily reminders, in the form of children pulled around in colorful wagons or sitting propped against a mother's lap, that the work begun in a laboratory has real life-and-death outcomes.

And the private funds raised by St. Jude's Children's Research Hospital in Memphis are helping Webster and his team of international virus specialists fight what some say may be the biggest threat to humanity right now -- avian influenza.

''We could be heading for a global catastrophe," Webster said in an interview in his corner office overlooking the expansive hospital campus.

If bird flu were to start spreading among people, more than 25 million hospital admissions and up to 7 million deaths globally would follow within a short period, according to British researchers who model epidemics using computer programs.

Webster's team works out of high-tech labs set up by the St. Jude organization, launched by Lebanese-American entertainer Danny Thomas in the 1950s to care for children with cancer and other hard-to-treat diseases.

Ever since Webster and his colleagues discovered that aquatic birds such as ducks were the natural reservoirs of influenza and that the virus has several ways of changing quickly into a mass killer, he has said it is only a matter of time before a flu virus takes on a form that will kill millions of people.

''You just don't know when it is going to happen," Webster said. ''But I think some of the policy makers and politicians are starting to listen."

When Webster saw the avian flu strain called H5N1 for the first time in Hong Kong in 1997, he thought this might be it.

The virus hopped from ducks to chickens, killing chickens in a day, and infected 18 people who handled the birds, killing six, before authorities stopped it with the slaughtered of poultry and closings of bird markets.

No one thought it was gone for good, and when flu specialists first heard about a mysterious virus that was killing people in China's Guangdong Province at the end of 2002, they feared that H5N1 had come back. In fact, it was Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome.

The panic over SARS upstaged the reappearance of H5N1 in China in 2003, and this time the authorities did not act so quickly or decisively.

Now it has killed or forced the slaughter of tens of millions of domestic birds in China, Vietnam, Thailand, Indonesia, Cambodia, Japan, and elsewhere. It has killed more than 60 people, although it does not yet easily infect humans or pass from human to human.

It has been found in wild birds in Mongolia and now in flocks in Kazakhstan and Russia.

''This virus keeps extending its range," Webster said. ''It is out there spreading like crazy among the wild birds of Asia."

Not everyone is convinced that migrating birds are spreading H5N1, but Webster is.

Between studying dead birds in Australia and the viruses that infected them in London, Webster and colleagues worked up the idea that influenza viruses originate in birds -- mostly ducks.

These natural hosts, or reservoirs, do not usually become ill when infected, but incubate and spread the viruses.

But how do the viruses acquire the ability to infect new species, and how does their disease-causing nature change? Webster also helped discover how viruses do this.

One way is by steady mutation. Influenza is an RNA virus, meaning it is error-prone because it only uses one copy of the genetic code to replicate itself. That results in frequent variation, or mutation, of the virus, and ultimately one form will spread from person to person.

''The clock keeps ticking. Every time this virus replicates, it makes mistakes," Webster said. ''Sooner or later it will make the mistakes that will allow it to go human to human."

There is a quicker way. If two different viruses are in a cell together, they can swap pieces of their genes, a process called reassortment. ''It's virus sex," said Webster.

This reassortment caused the global flu pandemics of 1957 and 1968 that killed many people -- 4 million in 1968 -- because humans had no immunity to the new viruses that arose.

All it takes is for one person to become infected with H5N1 while also infected with ordinary human flu. This may have happened in 1918, when a new strain of flu killed as many as 40 million people globally, most of them healthy, young adults.

''We don't even know the mistakes it made in 1918 that allowed it to go human to human," Webster said.

Specialists in the Biosafety Level 3 lab at St. Jude's are studying the genetics of H5N1 to try to find precisely what ''mistake" H5N1 needs to make it something people can easily transmit to one another.

In this lab, with its specially sealed doors, air circulation controls, and showers to scrub down everyone who exits, it is possible to play around with deadly viruses.

Webster has been working here since 1968, when he was recruited to study influenza coincidentally just as the last global pandemic of disease was getting underway.
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/a... ird_flu_fight/
 

surfingdemon

Senior Member
Has anything been posted here about using kimchi for bird flu?

Kimchi has anti-biotic characteristics which suppresses the growth of harmful bacteria, as such it would not be effective to use against a viral infection such as bird flu.
 

Vere My Sone

Inactive
NewsTarget.com printable article

Friday, September 16, 2005

South Korean dish may cure bird flu, researchers say

A spicy South Korea dish known as kimchi may be a cure to the dangerous bird flu that has broken out across Asia, say some researchers at Seoul National University. The scientists fed the dish, made of fermented cabbage and hot spices, to 13 infected chickens, and 11 of the birds recovered from the disease. While the scientists have no idea why kimchi may cure the disease, they are exploring the question.


Overview:



Scientists at Seoul National University say they fed an extract of kimchi to 13 infected chickens - and a week later 11 of them had started recovering.
The researchers said the results were far from scientifically proven and if kimchi did have the effects they observed, it was unclear why.
South Koreans are reported to be eating more kimchi as a result of the study.
"I'm eating kimchi these days because I've heard in the media that it helps prevent bird flu infections," one man said.
Love it or loathe it, once you have eaten it, you will never forget it.
Kimchi is made by fermenting cabbage with red peppers, radishes and a lot of garlic and ginger.
The idea that it could help poultry to fight off bird flu sounds like a dubious folk remedy.
But the theory is being floated by some of Korea's most eminent scientists.
"We found that the chickens recovered from bird flu, Newcastle disease and bronchitis.
The birds' death rate fell, they were livelier and their stools became normal," said Professor Kang Sa-ouk.
There was an increase in kimchi consumption two years ago, when thousands of people in Asia contracted Sars (severe acute respiratory syndrome).
Kimchi was reported to have helped to prevent Sars.
The claim was never scientifically proven, but according to some Koreans, people in other countries followed their example and started eating kimchi.
"After the Sars outbreak, I went to China and I noticed that the Korean restaurants there sold most of the kimchi they'd made that day," a Korean man said.
So one of Korea's national specialties may soon find a much bigger market.
Whether it really is an effective remedy, only time and more research will tell.

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4347443.stm
 
Top