Bush and the upcoming Flu Pandemic. You will be on your own. Order Tamiflu now.

NoCarrier

Membership Revoked
Do you think Bush and his administration will do better with the inevitable upcoming pandemic health crisis? I don't think so..

Sorry, no cliff notes.

Well, some cliff notes : Order Tamiflu now. You never know when you might need it.

http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/Investigation/story?id=1130392&page=1

Sept. 15, 2005 — It could kill a billion people worldwide, make ghost towns out of parts of major cities, and there is not enough medicine to fight it. It is called the avian flu.

This week, at the United Nations Summit in New York, both the head of the U.N. World Health Organization and President Bush warned of the virus' deadly potential.

"We must also remain on the offensive against new threats to public health, such as the Avian influenza," Bush said in his speech to world leaders. "If left unchallenged, the virus could become the first pandemic of the 21st century."

According to Dr. Irwin Redlener, director of the National Center for Disaster Preparedness at Columbia University's Mailman School of Public Health, Bush's call to remain on the offensive has come too late.

"If we had a significant worldwide epidemic of this particular avian flu, the H5N1 virus, and it hit the United States and the world, because it would be everywhere at once, I think we would see outcomes that would be virtually impossible to imagine," he warns.

Already, officials in London are quietly looking for extra morgue space to house the victims of the H5N1 virus, a never-before-seen strain of flu. Scientists say this virus could pose a far greater threat than smallpox, AIDS, or anthrax.

"Right now in human beings, it kills 55 percent of the people it infects," says Laurie Garrett, a senior fellow on global health policy at the Council on Foreign Relations. "That makes it the most lethal flu we know of that has ever been on planet Earth affecting human beings."

No Natural Immunity

The Council on Foreign Relations devoted its most recent issue of the prestigious journal, "Foreign Affairs," to what it called the coming global epidemic, a pandemic.

"Each year different flus come, but your immune system says, 'Ah, I've seen that guy before. No problem. Crank out some antibodies, and I might not feel great for a couple of days, but I'll recover,'" Garrett says. "Now what's scaring us is that this constellation of H number 5 and N number 1, to our knowledge, has never in history been in our species. So absolutely nobody watching this has any natural immunity to this form of flu."

Like most flu viruses, this form started in wild birds — such as geese, ducks, and swans — in Asia.

"They die of a pneumonia, just like people," says William Karesh, the lead veterinarian for the Wildlife Conservation Society. "When you open them up, you do a post-mortem exam. Their lungs are just full of fluid and full of blood."

Karesh has been tracking this flu strain for the last several years as it has gained strength spreading from wild birds to chickens to humans.

"We start at a market somewhere in Guangdong Province in China," explains Karesh. "And it's packed with cages, and you'll have chickens, and you'll have ducks. You might have some other animals — cats, dogs, turtles, snakes — and they're all stacked in cages, and they're all spreading their germs to each other."

In response, Asian governments have killed millions of chickens in futile attempts to stop the flu's spread to humans.

"The tipping point, the place where it becomes something of an immediate concern, is where that virus changes, we call it mutates, to something that is able to go from human to human," says Redlener, the National Center for Disaster Preparedness director.

Scientists in Asia and around the world are now working around the clock as they wait for that tipping point.

"Unlike the normal human flu, where the virus is predominantly in the upper respiratory tract so you get a runny nose, sore throat, the H5N1 virus seems to go directly deep into the lungs so it goes down into the lung tissue and causes severe pneumonia," says Dr. Malik Peiris, the scientist who first discovered the so-called SARS virus, which killed 700 people and drew worldwide attention.

To date, there have been 57 confirmed human deaths, and another suspected one last week in Indonesia. Scientists say the humans have only been infected by birds. However, they add every infected person represents one step closer to the tipping point.

"Once that virus is capable of not needing the birds to infect humans, then we have the beginnings of what can turn out to be this worldwide epidemic problem that the experts call 'pandemics,'" Redlener says.

That is exactly what happened in 1918 when the global epidemic called the Spanish flu struck.

"The Spanish flu was killing people in two or three days once they got sick," Bill Karesh of the Wildlife Conservation Society says.

"In 1918, my now-quite elderly uncle was a young boy, living in Baltimore, Maryland," says Garrett of the Council on Foreign Relations. "And the flu came through, and his family insisted that he could not go outside for any reason until the whole epidemic was over. He spent afternoons looking out the window and counting the hearses going up and down the neighborhood and trying to guess which of his schoolmates had died."

Disaster Would Require Massive Quarantines

Unlike the avian flu, the Spanish flu spread long before the international air travel routes of today. At that time, there were no non-stop flights from flu ground zero to the United States. But not anymore.

Karesh believes the avian flu could travel from China to Japan to New York to San Fransisco within the first week.

"It's on people's hands. You shake hands. You touch a doorknob that somebody recently touched," Garrett says, referring to how the flu is spread.

Redlener, who is stationed at Mailman School of Public Health at Columbia University, has been working with New York City officials to get ready for the deadly epidemic.

"The city would look like a science fiction movie," according to him. "It's extremely possible we'd have to quarantine hospitals. We'd have to quarantine sections of the city."

"I could imagine that you could look at Grand Central Station and not see much of anybody wandering around at all," Garrett agrees. "People would be afraid to take the subways, because who wants to be in an enclosed air space with a whole lot of strangers, never knowing which ones are carrying the flu?"

As for the hospitals, there would be scenes like the ones this past month in the stadiums of New Orleans and Houston after Hurricane Katrina.

"There wouldn't be equipment and personnel to staff them adequately that you could really call them a hospital," Garrett predicts. "You might more or less call them warehouses for the ailing."

And, as happened in New Orleans, there would be no place for the dead.

"If you look at the expected number of deaths that could occur in cities across the United States, we are wholly unprepared to process those bodies in a dignified and respectful way," asserts Michael Osterholm, director of the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy. "We will run out of caskets literally within days."

The prospects have become so bleak that in planning meetings held in New York City, veteran emergency responders have walked away.

"They just don't know how we're going to get through," says Osterholm of those responders. "If we have a repeat of the 1918 life experience, I can't imagine anything to be closer to a living hell that that experience of 12 to 24 months of pandemic influenza."

If the flu does strike, victims at first would not know if it is the kind of easily treated flu that comes every year or the killer flu, known as H5N1.

The man in charge of making sure Americans are prepared in the event of a killer flu epidemic is the secretary of Health and Human Services.

"We would do all we could to quarantine," says Secretary Michael Leavitt. "It's not a happy thought. It's something that keeps the president of the United States awake. It keeps me awake."

The preparedness plan calls for Leavitt to run operations out of a crisis room in Washington.

When pressed as to how ready the country actually is, Leavitt replied, "Not as prepared as we need to be. We're better prepared than we were yesterday; we'll be better prepared tomorrow than we are today."

The draft report of the federal government's emergency plan, obtained and examined by ABC News' "Primetime," predicts as many as 200,000 Americans will die within a few months. This is considered a conservative estimate.

"The first thing is everybody in America's going to say, 'Where's the vaccine?' And they're going to find out that it's really darned hard to make a vaccine. It takes a really long time," said Garrett of the Council on Foreign Relations.

In fact, the draft report says it will not be until six months after the first outbreak that any vaccine will be available, and then only in a limited supply.

"I imagine that not a lot of poor people will get vaccinated," Garrett says. "If you think about New Orleans, this is a similar situation."

'Inadequate' Stockpile of Medicine

While there is no vaccine to stop the flu, there is one medicine to treat it. Called Tamiflu, it is made by the Roche pharmaceutical company in Switzerland. Roche has been selling Tamiflu for years.

Only recently, however, did scientists learn of its potential to work against the killer flu, H5N1. That has since created a huge demand and a critical shortage.

"All of the wealthiest countries in the world are trying to purchase stockpiles of Tamiflu," says Garrett. "Our current stockpile is around 2.5 million courses of treatment."

According to Leavitt, that is a long way from the country's ideal stockpile. "Our objective is to have 20 million doses of Tamiflu or enough for 20 million people," he says.

He later admitted that only 2 million are currently on hand, but asserted that no other country is in a better position.

Officials in Australia, however, have 3.5 million courses of treatment, and in Great Britain, officials say they have ordered enough to cover a quarter of their population.

"I think at the moment, with 2.5 million doses, you are pretty vulnerable," warns Professor John Oxford of the Royal London Hospital.

"The lack of advanced planning up until the moment in the United States, in the sense of not having a huge stockpile I think your citizens deserve, has surprised me and has dismayed me," he admits.

Faced with worldwide demand, the Roche company, which produces Tamiflu, has organized a first-come, first-serve waiting list. The United States is nowhere near the top.

"The way we are approaching the discussions with governments is that we are operating on a first-come, first-serve basis," says Dr. David Reddy, head of the pandemic task force at Roche.

"Do we wish we had ordered it sooner and more of it? I suspect one could say yes," admits Leavitt. "Are we moving rapidly to assure that we have it? The answer is also yes."

When asked why the United States did not place their orders for Tamiflu sooner, Leavitt replied, "I can't answer that. I don't know the answer to that."

Even leading Republicans in Congress say the Bush Administration has not handled the planning for a possible flu epidemic well.

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., says the current Tamiflu stockpile of 2 million could spell disaster.

"That's totally inadequate. Totally inadequate today," says Frist, who is a physician by training. "The Tamiflu is what people would go after. It's what you're going to ask for, I'm going to ask for, immediately."

Leavitt says deciding who gets the 2.5 million doses of Tamiflu currently on hand in the United States is part of the federal government's response plan. However, he also admits that thought has motivated the government to move rapidly in securing more doses of the medicine.

"It isn't going to happen tomorrow, but if it happened the day after that, we would not be in as good as a position as we will be in six months," he says.

However, in the end, even the country's top health officials concede that a killer flu epidemic this winter would make the scenes of Katrina pale in comparison.

"You know, I was down in New Orleans in that crowded airport now a couple weeks ago," Frist says. "And this could be not just equal to that, but many multiple times that. Hundreds of people laid out, all dying, because there was no therapy. And a lot of people don't realize for this avian flu virus, there will be very little effective therapy available early on."

ABC News' Rhonda Schwartz, Michael Bicks, Samantha Chapman, Maddy Sauer, Simon Surowicz, Jill Rackmill, Steve Baker, Monica DelaRosa, and Jennifer Needleman contributed to this report.
 

ioujc

MARANTHA!! Even so, come LORD JESUS!!!
UH.....FIRST of all...This thread is a TROLL THREAD.
What has Dubya got to do with this??? The only reference in your article is some comments he made about the possible Avian Flu crisis. Yet.....sOMEHOW....your thread is LABELED with BUSH as the "bad guy". This is just USA emergency policy as usual....so, maybe you would like to change your title????? :rolleyes:
Not too talented at "sneakin'g things in are ya??? :kk2:
But, yes, over all, we will be on our own.....just as EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY has put all of it's citizen's ON THEIR OWN. What do you want Big Brother to spoon feed you too?? :rolleyes:
 

Warren Bone

Membership Revoked
I haven't followed this flu very closely. Does anyone have any predictions as to the probability of it becoming a pandemic?

These articles almost make it sound like a "done deal".

warren.
 

Hansa44

Justine Case
Primetime showed Bush speaking at the UN. I was wondering why he is knows the seriousness of this flu and hasn't told the people in this country yet to give them time to make preparations.
 

okie medicvet

Membership Revoked
I didn't catch the troll or bushbashing part, my bad.

But warren, if you will do some internet research you will find that medical professionals around the world are rather concerned about the flu this year, and do indeed realize that there is at least a strong possibility that the avian flu could reach 'pandemic proportions'.
 

Hansa44

Justine Case
Warren Bone said:
I haven't followed this flu very closely. Does anyone have any predictions as to the probability of it becoming a pandemic?

These articles almost make it sound like a "done deal".

warren.



They are now waiting for someone that has this flu to see if the virus mutates into a person to person virus.

The fact is, they don't have a definite timeline. But once it mutates it will probably spread worldwide within a week!!!
 

NoCarrier

Membership Revoked
ioujc said:
UH.....FIRST of all...This thread is a TROLL THREAD.
What has Dubya got to do with this??? The only reference in your article is some comments he made about the possible Avian Flu crisis. Yet.....sOMEHOW....your thread is LABELED with BUSH as the "bad guy".

Next time, please read the article before making comments. It will make you look.. Hmm.. Smarter?


"Even leading Republicans in Congress say the Bush Administration has not handled the planning for a possible flu epidemic well.

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tenn., says the current Tamiflu stockpile of 2 million could spell disaster.

"That's totally inadequate. Totally inadequate today," says Frist, who is a physician by training. "The Tamiflu is what people would go after. It's what you're going to ask for, I'm going to ask for, immediately.""


ioujc said:
What do you want Big Brother to spoon feed you too?? :rolleyes:

No, I want people to realise that a miracle remedy won't be available when it starts. The majority of people believe that a vaccine will be available as soon as it hits the country. It's not the case. It's going to take months before it is available. And it won't be available for everyone.

How about you go drink some tea, take a hot bath, relax, and stop with the childish "troll" comments.
 

NoCarrier

Membership Revoked
Warren Bone said:
I haven't followed this flu very closely. Does anyone have any predictions as to the probability of it becoming a pandemic?

These articles almost make it sound like a "done deal".

warren.

It's really hard to predict. But there are signs..

The World Health Organization (WHO) has developed a global influenza preparedness plan, which defines the stages of a pandemic, outlines WHO’s role and makes recommendations for national measures before and during a pandemic. The phases are:

Interpandemic period

Phase 1: No new influenza virus subtypes have been detected in humans. An influenza virus subtype that has caused human infection may be present in animals. If present in animals, the risk of human infection or disease is considered to be low.

Phase 2: No new influenza virus subtypes have been detected in humans. However, a circulating animal influenza virus subtype poses a substantial risk of human disease.

Pandemic alert period

Phase 3: Human infection(s) with a new subtype, but no human-to-human spread, or at most rare instances of spread to a close contact.

Phase 4: Small cluster(s) with limited human-to-human transmission but spread is highly localized, suggesting that the virus is not well adapted to humans.

Phase 5: Larger cluster(s) but human-to-human spread still localized, suggesting that the virus is becoming increasingly better adapted to humans, but may not yet be fully transmissible (substantial pandemic risk).

Pandemic period

Phase 6: Pandemic: increased and sustained transmission in general population.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Right now, we are at Stage 4. We might move to Phase 5 this winter, or the next..
 

Anne in TN

Inactive
Imaginative,

Thanks for the link!

Have you used this company before? Can we trust them?

Has anyone else here used this company?

Does anyone know how much Tamiflu we should have on hand?
 

Just_Is

Membership Revoked
Hansa44, I hope this isn't thread drift, but at the Putin-Bush White House Briefing today which was aired by C-SPAN, the President did bring this up in conjunction with giving the armed services a bigger role in disasters like Katrina. He said the .gov will learn from Katrina and is asking Congress to consider a larger role for armed services.

I did note something odd when the President was referring to new business deals for the area involving Russia. He also talked about the opportunities for '...entrepreneurs in rebuilding the area...lift this part of the world up.' I thought it odd he referred to the gulf coast as this part of the world instead of saying lift up this part of our country, or something like that. I guess it was in the context of announcing the biznessships btwn the U.S. and Russia. I dunno :shr:

I should mention this briefing is the first of what seemed like ushering in the new order of things. I got the creeps watching it on C-SPAN.

http://www.c-span.org/
 

Warren Bone

Membership Revoked
If there is a world-wide shortage of this vaccine, why would we be able to get it from a net site?

Anyone asked a local pharmacy about this Tamiflu?

warren.
 

ioujc

MARANTHA!! Even so, come LORD JESUS!!!
nocarrier, before I put you on "ignore" I just want to say.....Of COURSE you're on your own! Anyone who doesn't understand this is really, shall we say....beyond STOOPID! People who expect a vaccine are really not too bright now are they!
I'd LOVE to go drink a cup of tea....but I drink coffee. LOVE to take a bath.... but ain't got no bath tub!! 'sides, I ain't took a shower in 3 days, conservin' water ya know. So......guess I'll just hang out here. :lol:
 

okie medicvet

Membership Revoked
good lord forgive me, but I cannot spell your name, except to know that you have a nice wolf avatar. ;)

I would like to say that you are right..

people hoping to save themselves by a 'flue vaccine' or a 'flu drug' if not part of 'the powers that be' or very wealthy are screwed. period... The rest of us..have half a chance of living if we get it..and I don't quite have what the odds are that we will get it yet.

I will say that the worst part of a worldwide pandemic is not just the dying and the dead but the collapse of the modern day system of civilization that currently exists.

I can say this:

I'll say it now so everyone can laugh and we can get it out of the way and kid around. There will be a bad bout this year..not as bad as the stand tho, my 'reference' post to it notwithstanding, lol! ;)

But the worst part of what I see in the future is that the selfishness and pettiness and prejudices of man will make what 'natural' things that will happen far worse. I just pray every day that maybe there will be bands of intelligent people that will outlast and learn to be stronger than the haters to bring about the survivors to something better than a hate filled doomed world to a fearful yet hopeful one.

but i'm just silly like that. I'm so silly that I do believe that maybe not just preparedness but prayer as well can make a difference.
 

LONEWOLF

Deceased
CfI,

Can you tell us where to get black elderberry extract at a fair deal? How much does someone need to combat or prevent a flu bout- and dosages for adults, children & babies? Thanks in advance....
 

lynnie

Membership Revoked
GET THE BRAND NAME- SAMBUCOL....I read that the other elderberry extracts just do NOT hold up to the Sambucol.

Lovewolf.....I get it at Wegmans, a bit pricey ( IIRC 10 bucks for 12 doses...but cheaper than tamiflu). Also at health food stores.

Do a google search on the Israeli labs and MDs that researched it, it is remarkable. Clinical trials showed it reduced the length and severity of flu enormously. I have more than one bottle stocked per family member, I suspect it might make the difference between life and death.
 
For those that're interested.

One of my neighbors makes Black Elderberry Extract (commercially).

I can vouch for his quality and practices.

Black Elderberry Tincture
(Sambucus nigra)

Fresh 1:1 50% Grain Alcohol

1 oz - $ 11.00 Amber Glass/ Dropper

4 oz - $ 39.00 Amber Glass/ Dropper

16 0z - $ 140.00 Amber Glass

They've also something named Avienza Tincture

Combined

2 Parts - Black Elderberry (Sambucus nigra)
2 Parts - Lomatium Root ( Lomatium dissectum)
1 Part - Devils Club Root (Oplopanaz horridus)

2 oz - $ 24.50 Amber Glass/ Dropper

4 oz - $ 47.00 Amber Glass/ Dropper

16 0z - $ 180.00 Amber Glass


Fresh 1:1 50% Grain Alcohol

PM me for contact info - Elderberry in the subject line.

Tom
 

Hansa44

Justine Case
I do lots of shopping here.


www.vitacost.com



Nature's Way Sambucol Immune System Syrup -- 7.8 oz

Unit count:
7.8000002 ounces
Potency:

Retail price: $27.99
Our price: $16.29
41% off



Ships within 24 hours
Nature's Way Sambucol Syrup Original -- 7.8 oz

Unit count:
7.8000002 ounces
Potency:

Retail price: $25.99
Our price: $12.89
50% off



Ships within 24 hours
Nature's Way Sambucol Syrup Sugar Free -- 7.8 oz

Unit count:
7.8000002 ounces
Potency:

Retail price: $25.99
Our price: $12.89
50% off



Ships within 24 hours
 

LONEWOLF

Deceased
Lovewolf has ordered beaucoup bottles of Sambucol - loaded for bear! My unending gratitude to you folks for the on-line sources....!
 

Fuzzychick

Membership Revoked
ioujc said:
UH.....FIRST of all...This thread is a TROLL THREAD.
What has Dubya got to do with this??? The only reference in your article is some comments he made about the possible Avian Flu crisis. Yet.....sOMEHOW....your thread is LABELED with BUSH as the "bad guy". This is just USA emergency policy as usual....so, maybe you would like to change your title????? :rolleyes:
Not too talented at "sneakin'g things in are ya??? :kk2:
But, yes, over all, we will be on our own.....just as EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY has put all of it's citizen's ON THEIR OWN. What do you want Big Brother to spoon feed you too?? :rolleyes:


OK, you and I have met before, so what makes this a TROLL thread because Bush's name is involved???? :dvl1:
 

ohiowoodsman

Inactive
I went to drugmart today looking for Tamaflu, druggist said it's scrip only and not a preventive. You take it at first signs of flu but got to go to the doc first.
 
So...to continue the 'thread drift' and/or trolling, when is the last time
you heard a government official (other than say, Dr. Whoever of the CDC)
mention a Pandemic or Avian Flu in particular? On TV, as an attributable,
non-speculative source, when it wasn't budget time?

Maybe Bush was just trying to be sympathetic, since it is currently
in Russia. Solidarity, and all that. Or, maybe it was more than that?
 

Claudia

I Don't Give a Rat's Ass...I'm Outta Here!
Warren Bone said:
If there is a world-wide shortage of this vaccine, why would we be able to get it from a net site?

Anyone asked a local pharmacy about this Tamiflu?

warren.

Tamiflu is not a vaccine. It is an anti-viral drug. Most local supplies of Tamiflu will very soon be gone. Some online sellers have already reached the end of their supply. It is one of the only few drugs that might help one live through a bout of H5N1. I am totally astonished at the ignorance being displayed here on this subject.
 

ioujc

MARANTHA!! Even so, come LORD JESUS!!!
Yes Claudia....it IS astounding and SCAREY considering this is "suppossed" to be a prepping board. :shk:
 

dpfan

Contributing Member
Hansa44 said:
I do lots of shopping here.


www.vitacost.com



Nature's Way Sambucol Immune System Syrup -- 7.8 oz

Unit count:
7.8000002 ounces
Potency:

Retail price: $27.99
Our price: $16.29
41% off



Ships within 24 hours
Nature's Way Sambucol Syrup Original -- 7.8 oz

Unit count:
7.8000002 ounces
Potency:

Retail price: $25.99
Our price: $12.89
50% off



Ships within 24 hours
Nature's Way Sambucol Syrup Sugar Free -- 7.8 oz

Unit count:
7.8000002 ounces
Potency:

Retail price: $25.99
Our price: $12.89
50% off



Ships within 24 hours

I just received my order from them, at my door just a few days after I sent the order. The order screen told me the product was backordered, but my order filled immediately. They limited me to 12 bottles (the bottles are small, so be check the number of doseages per bottle and be sre you are getting enough)
 

John H

Deceased
H5N1 as spreading through Asia (and soon Europe) is STILL treatable with Amantadine and Rimantadine as well as Tamiflu. H5N1 is not resistant to any of them YET.

It is likely it will merge with one of the prevalent normal flu strains to get its human to human transmission. Therefore, you MAY get some limited protection from a normal flu vaccine this year, but no guarantee for sure.

Alternative treatments will PROBABLY still be...

Sambucol or other quality elderberry extracts
Grape juice or red wine
green tea
or some combination of all of the above.

All of the above contain natural polyphenols which can slow the virus's replication and your bodies over-reaction to it, giving your immune system time to adapt.

The best sources for information on H5N1, IMHO...

http://www.recombinomics.com/whats_new.html

(Hard to read, but he's been bang on in interpreting the spread and if you read his background on the site, you'll understand why.)

and

http://www.curevents.com/vb/forumdisplay.php?f=40

Have fun.

:ld:

John H
 

Lilbitsnana

On TB every waking moment
does anyone know how someone who has MS will react to this flu or any other for that matter. what about the meds? I was recently (last few months) diagnosed with MS, and while I am still learning about it, it is my understanding that my immune system is already in "overdrive" so to speak.

I do know that I am supposed to avoid "immune boosting" vitamins for the most part. Some are okay to take, like the "antioxident" stuff. So, will I be able to take Tamiflu or Sambucol? Would I be in worse shape than the average person if I contracted this H5N1 flu?

Until the last few years I have never had the flu. I got it for the fist time in 99, was given a pill? or shot? (can't remember) and I was better in 4 days, while all my co-workers were sick for weeks. Got the flu again (for the second time) last September. DH was out of town, so I just lay on the couch wondering if I would die. It hit really fast, I felt a little bad, lay down on the couch to rest, and ended up spending the next 10 days there, 7 of which I was sure would be my last.

I go back to the doc next week, I will ask then, but it's my regular doc (not my specialist), and she doesn't seem to know a whole lot about people with MS.
 

ainitfunny

Saved, to glorify God.
If I'm not mistaken can't this (Tamiflu) also mitigate the severity and duration of a budding outbreak of shingles, if taken when symptoms first appear? (Shingles is an extremely painful nerve disease of those people who once survived chickenpox)
 

Rams82

Inactive
If this potential epidemic is half as bad as these scientists say then this stuff needs to be mass produced really quick and made available without prescription.
 

VesperSparrow

Goin' where the lonely go
OK, I got an image running thru my ever so conspiratorial mind...imagine you're at work. You hear a low rumble. You look out one of the windows and see men in white hazmat suits, the national gaurd, many others. They are taping off your parking lot. They are locking you in because someone from your company got the flu. But this flu is actually the Avian. And they won't let you go home. You are now quarantined for God knows how long.
And even worse I have thought about my son's school going through the same thing. You can't get your child from school because they're now under quarantine...

And as for Tamiflu, how do you know when you need it? How will you distinguish between this flu and just everyday colds. Many people don't go to doctors when they're sick. They just ride the cold out at home. By that time they've been to the Tom Thumb, they've sneezed all over the gas pump and then went and gotten a soda out of the cooler. They passed the money onto the cashier who passed the money on to you who passed the change on to your kid for lunch who passed the money on to...on and on and on...

When this thing is finally discovered I think there will already be so many deaths that it'll be too late for Tamiflu or Elderberry or anything else. Our government likes to take things slow, don't panic. Its just a cold...

BTW FWIW, in 15 years of nursing I've seen Tamiflu prescribed ONE time.
 

surfingdemon

Senior Member
Can you tell us where to get black elderberry extract at a fair deal? How much does someone need to combat or prevent a flu bout- and dosages for adults, children & babies? Thanks in advance....

I'm not CFI but, here is the recipe I use to make Elderberry Syrup -

Elderberry Syrup


3 cups fresh elderberries, or 1 cup dried berries
3 cups distilled water
1 1/2 cups organic honey
1 ounce fresh ginger root, grated
Whole Cloves
Cinnamon quills
Juice of 1 lemon/lime
1 ounce Echinacea tincture (95% alcohol) optional

Crush berries in food processor.

1. Combine crushed/dried berries and distilled water in stainless steel or glass pot. Heat on medium until simmering.

2. Continue to gently simmer uncovered for 45 minutes to an hour, or until reduced in volume by half.

3. Remove from heat. Strain well through fruit press squeezing the juice from the berries. Allow mixture to cool slightly.

4. Combine with honey.

5. Add all the lime/lemon juice and Echinacea tincture.

7. Pour into sterilized bottle/s, to which have already been added the ginger and cloves. Label with date, and store in the refrigerator for up to a year.

Take between one teaspoon and one tablespoon twice daily during the cold and flu season. For children ages 2-5, use half the adult dose. Dose for ages 6-12 is one teaspoon twice daily. Nursing mothers can take one tablespoon 5 minutes before nursing to pass the benefits along to the baby.



Note: We take a daily maintained dose of one tablespoon a day. For this reason I do not add Echinacea tincture to my mix as taking Echinacia for long periods tends to makes it ineffective. If you are only going to take the syrup when you begin to feel ill and until you feel better then it would be fine to add the tincture to your mix.
 
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